Nancy Peloci's visit was just a reaction only to the collaboration of Putin and Xi over invasion of Ukraine and possible invasion of Taiwan if Russian invasion of Ukraine succeed. In other word the US just honor its commitment of defense over Taiwan.
To give some context, the percentage of Taiwanese who support unification is less than 10%. That’s less than half the percentage of collaborators in the West who support the Communist Party of China which is at 20%.
@@straits1228 don’t feel sorry for others & worry for yourself instead. Meddling into affairs of others is your forte but in any case you didn’t know , it’s unwelcome and shameless.
Australians should not be distracted by debates on racial stigmatisation, multiculturalism, social and economic inequality but see clearly the real threat to Australia is autocracy vs democracy irrespective of one's political inclination within domestic politics. The CCP at Beijing is using the diversity in our democracy to sow seeds of discontent, hatred and disharmony among our people capitalising on cultural and linguistic linkage, economic class divide and social cohesion. We have to be very discerning with our genuine differences over domestic policies and guard against being manipulated by infiltration, propaganda and economic baits of the CCP.
You do realize that with 1. Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, vietnam, japan and many other countries on their border, 2. Major demographic issues, 3 major climate change issues, 3. Dealing with COVID along with a variety of other issues overthrowing democracy in Australia is incredibly low on their list of priorities. I’d argue that it is non-existent. No where in the CCP’s discourse do they proclaim their desire to overthrow foreign governments and spread their ideology. People seem to mistake Chinese communism with Russian communism when they are two very different things. Given their long term history of non exportation of their governmental systems along with their experience of governments forcing their ideologies on them and also given the benefits they see to being good global citizens my guess is that the last thing they want to do is get involved seriously in domestic Australian politics. its just Australians who can’t stand (can;t comprehend) the fact that Asians simply don’t care about what they think.
@@nzurstrassen I beg to differ. Of course Australia is not considered directly important. But you can clearly see the behaviour and commentary of Australia or Australians is something CCP wants to shape and mould. (Same as master beats the slave, even though, slave is unimportant to the master). If Australia opinions and commentary is unimportant, why block their wine sales? To teach them not to speak out (influence is desired here). If Australia is unimportant, why influence their politics (refer Sam Dastyari)? 杀鸡儆猴 CCP has a huge population and plenty of capacity to attend to multiple matters at once.
How Asia sees China 1)Japan: 90% hate 2)Phillippines:90% hate 3)South Korea:80% hate 4)India:80% hate 5)Vietnam:75% hate 6)Taiwan:70% hate 7)Indonesia:55% hate 8)Singapore:50% hate
@Kian Hong Chua Yes it is true that Japanese committed atrocities to China and China has learned no lessons from this. Now China has committed grave atrocities towards its own Chinese people and to the Tibetans, Ueghurs, Mongolians and Hong Kongers in this modern 21st century. Shame on China CCP.
Maintaining the status quo is so unfair for the 23.5 million Taiwanese citizens. They have been living under constant pressure and threats from the PRC for too long. Taiwan is a sovereign country. It’s not under the PRC. PRC regime never ruled Taiwan for even a second. This is about two sovereign countries, one bigger trying to invade a smaller one.
@@kongking5048 Of course Taiwan is an independent sovereign country. Like it or not. Even without any formal diplomatic relations with any country, Taiwan will still be considered a sovereign country of its own. Taiwan has it’s own Central Government and President elected by its 23.5 millions freedom loving citizens. It’s a vibrant and thriving democracy. PRC and Taiwan are not affiliated in any way. Only the Taiwanese citizens can decide their own future. Keep dreaming PRC!
@@kongking5048 So you want to start WWIII for the sake of grabbing an island that you really don't need? You think that is a smart thing to do? Communist China HAS NO CLAIM to Taiwan. Nobody in Taiwan has lived under the communist regime and they do not want to. Leave Taiwan alone or you will start something that will destroy EVERYONE!
@@kongking5048 Whatever u wanna say here. Everyone knows Taiwan is an sovereign democratic country of its own. U can’t even identify facts. Hong Kong is an integral part of the PRC, but Taiwan is a sovereign country, with its president elected by its 23.5 million citizens.
Taiwan is the result of an un-ended Chinese civil war. During tumultuous back then, Chinese people would rather improve their life rather than having endless conflict. The indigenious Taiwanese was "invaded" by Chinese Immigrant back then. Now The US is using Taiwan as a pawn for conflicts, because the US thrive in never ending conflicts. Over the past 50 years, the agenda for the US is to have endless war because its good business for the weapon companies and big media. Those companies are profited when there are insecurities. Weapon companies = More fear, more reason for them to manufacture it for defense. Media = More fear, more clicks and more watchers, more advertising they can charge on their web/channel. Majority of the people don't really care about what happen to people in China/Taiwan they just want to live their life happily, prosper and grow. But when the media weaponized the mass to fulfill the warmongers agenda, then you know it's propaganda. Taiwan is just another pawn for the US to make the rich richer. An excuse under the pretense of "DEMOCRACY & HUMAN RIGHTS"
As a Taiwanese Australian, I'd argue that my picking preference for 'status quo' is a 'little forced'. If I choose for independence, and China starts firing missiles at my family and relatives then take over the island, we lose the chance for both 'Status quo' and 'independence'. It's complete annihilation of Taiwanese people. We also kind of "have to" pick the status quo, because I recall the U.S. will only intervene if we do NOT instigate a war with China at the expense of our others. By picking status quo, China can continue to apply moderated military pressure on the island, giving U.S. opportunity to continue sales of defensive weapons to Taiwan with high premiums. This provides some logic for the US to support Taiwan, while Taiwanese keep their freedom (at least within their little island). That's the current equation. (Sad, but nevertheless - reality) If you want to know whether the Taiwanese people actually want Taiwan independence, every time there is an election, and our green party commits to Taiwan Independence initiatives, their votes surge, and more often than not, win the election. If even Nauru can be considered a country, Taiwan with a population as large as Australia, with its own Law, Currency, Military, First Nations People, Flag, Education System, Stock Exchange, and Culture, how is it not a country today? Its like saying you and all your organs intact is not a independent human, but an extension of your mother's leg perhaps? It's such a joke that the CCP keeps bringing up this old topic to distract mainland citizens from their actual economic and social problems. They should really spend more time fixing their banking regulations, do their job for once, and stop silencing respectable Chinese people like Jack Ma.
Reminds me of when Bloomberg wrote an article about how there aren’t any Chinese debt traps. While in some ways, this may be technically true. Chinese foreign policy has resulted in terrifying results.
@@charlestancred6181, I buy the idea of employing the services of a financial advisor because finding that balance between saving and living requires counsel. I would not mind looking up the professional that helped you if that's okay with you. I will be retiring in two years and I will be needing some management on my much larger portfolio. Don't want to take any chances.>
Funny, when you go directly to the Africans, they will tell you the West debt traps is more severe. China is turning Africa into modern nations. The Western media is bias. Do not ask the western media, ask the Africans.
On the other hand western foreign policy has spread peace and prosperity everywhere especially in the Middle East. Western intervention in Libya for example destroyed the country to such an extent there is slave trade there now. Afghanistan, there's another success story.
"Is capitalism destroying democracy" haha what a joke. U can say about ANYTHING, is drugs destroying ? Is freedom destroying democracy? and so on... why? Because this is democracy. It may not be perfect bud democracy is the best thing we have at this point.
@@dama9150 the sentence I was talking was a question made in the interview: " Is capitalism destroying democracy". Also, tell me a non capitalist country that you have freedom of speech?
That's a singularly reason why I do not watch this programme. Ms. Hsu said how about aiwan people. For a researcher, she's a fraud since the UN and the world recognised Taiwan as a part of China. Taiwan IS NIT a sovereign country.
These woke ideologists will never understand. In the same sentence, he talked up increasing the minimum wage again as a great thing (already highest in the world) and also talked about how they have no idea how to fix supply chain issues that are crippling our economy. There's a reason why many industries are impossible in Australia, it's the insanely high minimum wage. It's cheaper to grow fruit in Australia, fly it to new zealand for it to be put in a tin, then flown it back to Australia, then it is pay someone to put it in a tin next to the farm it was grown in. I'm all for a decent minimum wage, free education and health care, but until this country makes it really easy to build a business, we will never reach out potential
German Auto workers $69000 per year, Korea auto workers $70K-$80K usd per year depending on bonuses. In modern economies, most skilled workers aren't making minimum wages.
Bahahahaha, the fruit from Australia goes to NZ for packing so they can mix in product from 3rd world countries making it look like it was from NZ...BUT YOU KEEP DREAMING UP STORIES TO SPREAD ABOUT HIGH WAGES WHILST YOU EXPECT SLAVERY BY THE LOOKS
This group are very nice people, stands for right and democracy. If so, let talk and discuss about the wrongful war in Afghanistan, totally wiped out the country for 20 years, how many families got killed? Should those make the wrongful for war as war crime? Somehow I didn’t see this group stand for the right.
@@Andi-cr9ko you have to know, that doesn’t mean any country have the right to invade another country for that reason. By the way that’s not the reason for the 20 years of invasion with millions of families got displaced and killed, the invader should rebuild that country for this wrongful war, should they? Stand for the right! sad!
@@tweedy4sg If only Saddam Hussien let the UN inspector to inspect those facilities that would negate those fabricated pretext but Saddam didn't let in.
Some saying: Hey uncle Sam china is not USSR to break up. china learned from USSR history ,how to prevent breakup from westren modern day colonial tactics.
If you sniff more of the root cause, Pol Pot - the worst dictator that kills 2-3 millions Cambodians, he was helped by the US. also during the sino-viet war, the US used Agent Orange, please google that too
This would be a much better conversation and debate if we had someone pro-China or even a CCP representative. Otherwise it risks becoming an anti-China echochamber which is exactly what we don't need on this complex issue. Also having a Taiwanese individual to bring that perspective would be good.
@@coastsouljah ASEAN countries should note that shameless western imperialist wants blood and wars in china asean region thawrting development of the region bringing death, destruction and poverty for asians
@@beesplaining1882 Anti-China? LOL, what a joke. China is acting like a badly behaved little child that can't have what it wants. Taiwan does not want to be part of China and they have the right to determine their own future. This is not about what is good for China or for Taiwan, this is about 'face' and 'face' is BS! Reunification would be no more than the extermination of the Taiwanese people by mainland China. Ethnic Chinese killing each other FOR NO REASON!
@@beesplaining1882 good point, now I got the answer why Stan regarded himself as a victim when discussing aboriginal topics , Stan behaved like school bullying kids when he talked about China---"white" racist
Democracy = divide the demos, the people. And also tell them that they decide with their vote...but keep talking about the fact that only corporations and rich people decide via lobbyism.
why do west and some east country believe only one system should exist in this world? that would be erasing the competition and ignoring the diversity!!!
Let's compare facts on the ground. You say there is no democracy in China, but the Chinese government is providing all the essential of life to their citizen not a single of them sleep outside because he can't afford house or flat rent. You say there is democracy in America, but a lot of are sleeping in the street because then can't afford house or flat rent. In these situation what is a better system of government? Democracy in western country is a propaganda for the fools while a class of a few group of people enjoy all the wealth of the country
You cannot ignore history. It is a civil war that never ended and was intervened by the US 7th fleet. Remember that Taiwan on multiple times tried to invade mainland China also.
There have been no large battles since 1950. The PRC won the civil war, the ROC lost. That doesn't mean the ROC completely went away. This is just like Russia claiming ex-soviet states. The have been operating independently for decades. The claim is plain belligerence. You can hope for peaceful reunification, that is fine, and I am all for mutual understanding.
When wages dont keep up with inflation, workers are getting poorer at the same time corporations are making massive profits. We have to put limits on profits, ~2% or so, with continuous improvement in products/services in contrast to constantly getting worse products. Corporations have to operate in the public interest or else they are a detriment and that simply cannot be allowed by a decent society.
Why not? The Catalans are ethnically, culturally and linguistically different from the rest of Spain. For all intents and purposes, they deserve their own country that is separate to the rest of Spain. I just love how you don't stop to ask some of the people from these "WEZZZSTURN" nations what they think of the topic, you instead just assume their views for them and then accuse them of hypocrisy for the views you've assumed that they hold.
Diplomacy needs the backing of strong military/techonogy/economic powers. Without all these pillars balance out, talk as you might want, no one would listen let alone authoritarian regimes
Fascinating to find five people to discuss australian/chinese relations whiteout one of them being strongly supportive of China. It’s almost like that isn’t a viewpoint that should be even considered.
Therein is the problem, the blanket refusal to ever see the world from China's point of view, and after all of the invasions, famines, British East India Company's Opium Wars, Japanese War crimes, appropriation of Chinese land by multiple Imperialists and Chiang Kai-Shek, and the utterly shocking wanton destruction and theft of treasures of the Old Summer Palace.
They would never agree to a forum to discuss these matters in the way done on this show. There are attempts to do this on ABCs China watch and it's not a discussion, it's propaganda of the highest order.
None of them held that view because it isn’t a view that should be considered. Nobody would be surprised if a panel on race relations did not include a speaker who espoused KKK talking points. Same thing applies here
Democracies around the World need to protect the self-evident human right of people to determine their own political future. Taiwan may be geographically a part of “One China”, but the politics is up to the people of Taiwan.
If Taiwan is a part of China, then it's politics should be up to the people of China including Taiwan, and not just Taiwan ALONE. And more importantly, and specifically NOT the meddling & interfering US-led west. So butt the F out !
@@tweedy4sg Both mainland and Taiwan were in Sun Yat-Sen’s Republic of China. The Civil War was won by the CCP through it’s United Front work avoiding the Japanese invaders, while the Republic fought the Japanese. Taiwan was, and still is, a part of the Republic of China. The CCP should stay in the lands it won in 1949. It should get out of Tibet and stop torturing the Turkish people of East Turkistan (“Xinjiang”)
@@tweedy4sg The People of China have no influence, only the senior members of the CCP elite. Chinese Communism is a Western system, Marxist-Leninist, created by Marx in Great Britain, and Lenin in Europe. It was copied by Mao to give himself absolute power. He starved millions of Chinese people in the "Great Leap Forward". True Chinese government was the Republic of China, created by Sun Yat-Sen a great man of Chinese history. This Republic is alive and well and now fully democratic in Taiwan. When the mainland Chinese discard the Western Marxist-Leninist Communist Party, and rejoin the democratic Republic of China, only then will there be an authentic "One China".
@@anEyePhil yada yada yada .... you're so wrong about Chinese people's influence. Anyway most Chinese don't give a stuff about ideology. All they want is getting China unified back in one piece again as defined by PRC, NOT ROC !!!
Why are politicians completely incapable of giving opinions on hypothetical situations??? I know why, buy still, it's the most ridiculous answer... they are continuously giving hypotheticals about this policy or that policy (especially in opposition) and what might happen if/when they can implement that policy.
Thank you Jennifer for placing us at the center of the stage. I have to tell you foreign audience, we Taiwanese have been neglected by you too long and China's bully has been a big trauma for too many of us. Our achievement in all areas, full democracy and peaceful transition from authoritarianism, semiconductor expertise, highly educated workforce, universal health care, extreme low crime rate, highest recycling rate, legalized LGBTQ rights, top press freedom, generous charity contribution, all and all, and I am not even talking about our economy. We deserve recognition by all of the world including China, the country so poor with only gdp number left. Safety and dignity. That's all we are looking for.
@@waynegore5291 I am eager to tell more foreign people my true feelings for broader awareness, as being a Taiwanese under the shadow of China the bully. You may label whatever you want as that reflects your ideology and stereotype, not mine. If you noticed the copy/paste, you are also very concerned on the issue. Feel free to make your own points.
@marconi Hopefully, copy and paste doesn't become your habit or even personality. The debate in taiwan right now should give you something to learn. Copy and paste a master degree paper.
Like it or not Australia is still a whites dominant culture. People of colour are still facing discrimination every day. I was born in China but live most of my life in Australia. I see myself as a proud Australian but that doesn't matter in the eyes of most white Australians. I had an interview as part of my job application for a government job, and one of the questions was which I would support in the event of Australia bombing my hometown birthplace. That was an outrageous question, war crime is war crime even if committed by Australia.
That's Australia's government hypocrisy! Respecting One China Policy is just paying lips service, just as its US master and allie does. A weak US lapdog has no dignity if it does not have principles and continue to support the biggest warmonger and human rights abuser of the century. We in Asean and many more countries around the world (except US, Japan (another lapdog) & G7 countries) see this clearly as we witnessed the devastation and loss of millions of innocent lives in Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and many more weaker countries. Has Australia ever spoken out or perhaps whispered against its US master? No! Instead it has joined the US and committed similar war crimes against these invaded countries. Does Australia dare to discuss these facts in public forums? How shameful mate!
Racism and discrimination exists in every country. How do you think people of European ancestry are treated in China? You don't need to answer because the answer is all over the net from ex-pats who have tried to live there. In Aisa in general, people with European/Australian passports are charged more than locals - institutionalised discrimination. Australia is one of the more tolerant countries but yes, racism does exist here too.
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen are you saying we should put up with racism here in Australia? Regarding expats paying more in Asian countries, international students here pay higher fees to attend schools and unis, they don't enjoy Medicare benefits, no transport concession, what do you say? Putting all that aside, I am not expat, I am Australian brother.
@@bokyeahlao1 No, we should not put up with racism BUT it gets very tiring to continually have Australia blamed for racism as if we are the only ones. Racism is a human characteristic that we have to work on but it is not going away any time soon. Lets have others who want to point the finger at us, admit that their own countries are also racist (some exceptionally so) and that they too need to work on the problem. Australia is predominantly peaceful and tolerant. That doesn't mean that we can't do better, we can. For the record, my wife is Chinese so I understand the problem but it is a world wide problem not just limited to Australia.
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen That's a great point actually. As a white Australian I think a lot about the racism that exists in this country and it makes me proud when I see things changing for the better. Your comment highlights the complexity of the argument though for sure. In every Asian country I've visited I was treated differently by 99 percent of the locals because of my white skin. I still remember the feeling, like I was firmly in the minority and not liked at all. Only tolerated.
'I don't think capitalism will destroy democracy but inequality has that great potential.' I'd really like to know where you think that inequality comes from
@@dama9150 The Labor Party is not interested in stopping bribery of political parties. They play a major role in maintaining inequality and actively preventing democracy.
Do people not think about the words that are being said? In this video they said that we Australians should stay with the status quo of the one China policy and that Taiwan should not seek independence. Ok, let’s think about that for a second. If there is only one China and Taiwan isn’t an independent country, then who does Taiwan belong to?
Peace is most important for Asia Pacific. This crisis could and should be resolved through diplomatic negotiation with China. If negotiation contains the following elements, there is a good chance of success:- 1) Due respect for the One China Policy; 2) Official visits to Taiwan should be approved by China; China should stop its military drill while foreign military force promise not to enter Taiwan water.
Capitalism works, Corporate capitalism doesn't, make them pay their fair share here, stop the tax dodge. If that man's we need to stop donations to political parties so be it.
Love and harmony are the keys to prosperity and wellnes for family, society, nation, and the world. Conflict and confrontation are the recipies to chaos and turmoils. If we don't even know God or fight over religions and do not love one another as God beseeches us, how do we even expect to live in peace? First, remove every seed of conflict and animosity from our consciousness. Fill it with love, compassion, care and kindness. Abandon selfishness and material-centredness. Embrace spirituality and peace.
Friggin substandard panelists as expected. Australia should publicly commit its troops to help Twn help China and cut all ties with China. Do it or shut up.
The problem between China and Australia, China and it's province Taiwan, is actually the problem between China and America. If China can defeat America or America can defeat China, these problems are not problems.
I would spend money on comuacation skills I find our politicians , we talk about our value, we have people homeless and in poverty Please look at peace there is a lot place where China is doing a lot better than Australia please look at 95.5 percent of Chinese are happy with the way there country is run Australia has a long way to go to catch up
laughable, how many of these panelists lived in china long enough to understand how chinese think or doing things? it is like have some non-tech guy tell me how to code. wahahahah.
Just a comment on the event's structure, I like how they got the audience involved and even asked them a follow up question or two. Everyone was listening to each other, time was a bit short, could've gone for two hours at least I feel to get everyone's main talking points out, and perhaps debate over a couple of more contentious points. As someone who is on his way back to Asia to live, this topic is important to me. I don't want to be there when another invasion breaks out! After all, let's call a spade a spade. Let's fight for peace people. God I really do feel useless writing this.
Sometimes you have to prepare for war to keep the peace. We all saw what happened when the world tried to appease the Nazis. Giving in to bullies just encourages them.
When the ABC and the Labor party finish scratching each other’s back, could the Labor party do something about the cost of living that is sky rocketing under their government 🤮👎🤮👎🤮
Ahhh yes.. Another 'let's blame the new government who I don't align with for the previous government's 9 years of rorts, mismanagement and incompetence and cry about how the new government are not able to rectify the impact of the worst PM in Australian history' dribbling fool 🤤🥴
LOL, they are doing what they can but after 9 years of corruption, rorts and mismanagement by the LNP, it is going to take a while, not even taking into account many factors that are international and beyond their control. Typical rusted on LNP simp comment.
I am a Chinese, there is an elementary issue within China where very little talked about. A professor in China recently just said the biggest problem today with China is that its people is generally not patriotic. They might be nationalistic for certain issues but not patriotic. As such, it would be extremely dangerous to introduce western form of democracy.
You've got a chip on your shoulder. Not everything is about appearance my man. It's a fair question if Taiwan can do it, why not China? If other Asian countries can move from kingdom style feudal arrangement, why not China? It's not so much about how people look as some (drawing broadstrokes) societal values are similar in East Asia / North Asia being that there is more emphasis on the collective and duty / responsibilities rather than individual factors (which a person might ascribe to USA). If you understand the most important part about democracy is the ability to scrutinise leaders then there is no reason a change in government is prevented from delivering benefits to the people. We can see that it's not necessary to follow USA model either, can follow east Asian democracies or others like Finland, New Zealand. Media freedom would bring immense benefits to China
@@happyhappynuts When you have 1.4 billion people to cater for, in such a diverse society with so many ethnic groups it is never going to be like 55m korea, 23m Taiwan or 120m Japan. Your initial comment was too simplistic, hence my mirrored response. But OK now I understand you do not have those typical views from the average commentor. The whole point of his comment was saying that China will do their own version of democracy in its own time, whenever that time will be, but only once they are ready. They don't want nor need other nations pushing democracy on them.
@@clairde The USA's lapdog or the PRC's lapdog. Subservience to the American imperialists, or subservience to the Chinese social imperialists. Neither option is in Australia's interests, and yet for some reason, these are the only two options mentioned in public debate.
@@jamesclarke2789 As much as I agree at the moment there is 2 superpower blocs, but i disagree saying China is an imperialist. They are capitalist socialist state, where gaining influence outside China has to be on a business basis that favors win-win solution for both internal party (China) and external party. Granted there are border issues, like any other countries with borders. I think its a long way to go for Australia to be sovereign, since all majority data servers, military, advanced tech, media are all relying on USA at this moment. Personally it would be best for Australia interest to be like Singapore, taking both US and China side of economy and political advantage, but remains neutral on most cases.
@@clairde "They are capitalist socialist state" There's nothing socialist about the PRC currently. Only a facade. The fact that they claim to uphold "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics'" doesn't change the fact that Chinese State Capitalism isn't Socialism. The Chinese party state can claim it's a proxy for the proletariat all they want, but it still doesn't change the fact that there isn't any true widespread social ownership of the means of production across the current Chinese economy. "gaining influence outside China has to be on a business basis that favors win-win solution for both internal party (China) and external party" That's what the Chinese goverment claims. That it wants "Win-WIN economic relationships". But you don't judge someone by what they say, you judge them by what they do. And what the Chinese goverment is doing is effectively replicating the 'dependency theory' relationships that emerged between countries like America and the developing world. Except now, it's China and not America who is imposing dependency on other developing economies. In the early USA, a collection of economic views that became known as 'The American System' became influential. It originated from the founding father Alexander Hamilton and supportive economists such as Friedrich List, and actively advocated for the American goverment of the 19th century to shape its economy around 3 interrelated policies: 1-a system of tariffs and subsidies, to shield new infant American industries from pre-established competition in Europe, and to boost the infant American industries international competitiveness. 2-Federal goverment investment in 'internal improvements', which basically refers to large federal goverment infrastructure investments, to boost the American economy. 3-centralized control of credit allocation in the form of a goverment controlled national bank, which would provide loans to productive investment rather than speculative investment. The American system was inherently economic nationalist, as in it aimed to both increase economic self-sufficiency for the US and maximize exports while minimizing imports. The system continued on in some form until it was gradually dismantled from the 1930s-1980s in favor of free-trade and economic globalization in America. The reason why I mention the American System in this comment is because of the influence it had on China's model of economic development from Deng onwards, and the implications it has for the global economy. People in both modern day America and China rarely seem to understand the American Hamiltonian influences on Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms. But if you look at some of the central characteristics of the 'Reform and Opening-Up' program that Deng pursued from the 1980s onwards, including market-based reforms paired with protectionist tariffs and industrial subsidies to protect new Chinese industries from foreign competition, massive goverment investment in infrastructure, centralized goverment control over major financial institutions and the allocation of credit, what becomes rather evident is that Deng and his successors decided to pursue a modern Chinese version of the American System, with the heavy influence of figures like Hamilton, List and Carey often remaining unspoken. Afterall, it's 'Socialism with Chinese Characteristics' that the Chinese goverment is pursuing, not 'Socialism with American Characteristics'. Revealing that the Chinese goverment took heavy inspiration from the ideas of historical Americans including a former founding father of the US would inevitably lead to confusion among both the Chinese population and an international audience consisting of people who despise America and want to oppose anything American. The significance of the American System's influence on the Chinese economy is that the Chinese economy has emerged in an economic nationalist manner. China may have reduced tariffs from the early 2000s onwards, but various forms of non-tariff barriers blocking foreign competition remain in place, and the Chinese goverment still heavily subsidies a number of 'strategic' industries through industrial policies like 'Made in China 2025'. It means that while other economies around the world including the USA from the 1980s-2010s pursued 'Neoliberalism', which included a reduction of tariffs and subsidies and free trade, China pursued its form of economic development, which like the American System that influenced it, is economic nationalist. Economic nationalist policies such as the American System of Hamilton, or China's model of economic development are not meant to create 'Win-Win' economic relations. They're meant to promote the growth of the economic nationalist economy at the outright expense of other economies. Like the American economy of the 19th century, China doesn't implement economic nationalist tariff protectionism and industrial policies like 'Made in China 2025' with the intention of everyone around the world winning. Instead, China implements selective protectionist policies, and uses industrial policies like 'MIC 2025' to funnel subsidies and cheap loans into strategic industries with the intention of artificially strengthening China's domestic industries and giving them a competitive advantage over foreign competitors. And the Chinese goverment pressures foreign economies, both developed and developing, to support free trade policies so that China's companies can easily enter foreign markets, and with the aid of industrial policies like 'Made in China 2025', outcompete and crush competition in these foreign markets and establish market dominance. The result is that Chinese companies can growth rapidly, both domestically and abroad, because of China's economic nationalist policies, and simultaneously foreign companies are crushed and outcompeted both in their own markets and abroad. It's means that the Chinese economy experiences massive growth, especially in the areas of heavy industry, manufacturing, science and technology, and simultaneously other economies around the world aren't able to develop or maintain their own advanced manufacturing industries because of how Chinese competitors have been artificially strengthened by economic nationalist policies. Countries and groupings like the USA, the EU and India have been the most vocal critics of China's economic nationalist policies, which is largely why the Americans, Europeans and Indians began implementing their own economic nationalist policies from the mid-2010s onwards in order to protect their own industries. But it's not just China's opponents which have been negatively impacted. Many of the countries which China claims to be helping with so-called 'WIN-WIN economic relations' have found that their own advanced industries are struggling to grow because of the artificially strengthened Chinese competition. Perfect example case in point being the countries of Latin America, such as Brazil, which went through a period of premature de-industrialization during the 2000s, at the exact same time Chinese competition entered their markets. The natural resource and basic service industries in Latin America benefitted from Chinese growth, but value adding industries such as the Brazilian manufacturing industry went into deep decline because they simply couldn't compete with China's subsidized industries. The result is that Latin American countries are now over reliant on natural resource extraction and service industries for their economies and are unable to develop advanced manufacturing industries which would allow them to escape the middle-income trap. If you think an international system like that is a 'WIN-WIN' economic scenario, where China uses economic nationalist policies to strengthen its own industries and where other developing economies like those in South America, or the Pacific are unable to develop internationally competitive value-adding industries as a result, then you really haven't been paying attention. It's not WIN-WIN economic relations. It's economic imperialism plain and simple, which is why I see the Chinese as imperialists just as much as the American are imperialists. Lenin and Mao both used the term 'Social Imperialism' to refer to countries which are Socialist in name and Imperialist in nature. It's ironic that Mao's successors became the exact thing that he publicly derided.
I have never seen the term ''Status Quo'' be more openly weaponized than here. But come to think of it, I guess it can easily serve as the ultimate foil.
Great feedback from people other than political reps excluding the intelligence guru . Shame about the lack of audience mask participation and or the presence of n95 respiratory protectors . I feel for the presenters and their reduced capacity to represent as a result of audience members unable to comprehend dispersal and reproductive conditions promoting the reproduction rates of pathogens . ( heart hugs )
If Taiwan wants the status quo, and Australia wants the status quo, then why is Nancy Pelosi trying to disturb this status quo?
Nancy Peloci's visit was just a reaction only to the collaboration of Putin and Xi over invasion of Ukraine and possible invasion of Taiwan if Russian invasion of Ukraine succeed. In other word the US just honor its commitment of defense over Taiwan.
How do you say that Pelosi is out to change the status quo ?
To give some context, the percentage of Taiwanese who support unification is less than 10%. That’s less than half the percentage of collaborators in the West who support the Communist Party of China which is at 20%.
Without China, Taiwan just a lonely island once America has their own chip, only China treat Taiwan as family
@tomorrow better Really? Maybe you would like to quote facts and sources to refute it then?
That's why they need to be re-educated.
Well said
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen err so where are the sources quoted in the OP?
Taiwan deserves independence and as Taiwan announced the Taiwanese people vote for what they prefer! We must unite and protect democracy, period!
What plans to defend so called democracy? Bombing Saira, killing unarmed Afghanistan children? Show our strong power to them?
And China mainlanders will vote for unification
台湾是中国的地方！🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳
But they don't have the guts to do so, sorry for them, and for you too.
@@straits1228 don’t feel sorry for others & worry for yourself instead. Meddling into affairs of others is your forte but in any case you didn’t know , it’s unwelcome and shameless.
Australians should not be distracted by debates on racial stigmatisation, multiculturalism, social and economic inequality but see clearly the real threat to Australia is autocracy vs democracy irrespective of one's political inclination within domestic politics. The CCP at Beijing is using the diversity in our democracy to sow seeds of discontent, hatred and disharmony among our people capitalising on cultural and linguistic linkage, economic class divide and social cohesion. We have to be very discerning with our genuine differences over domestic policies and guard against being manipulated by infiltration, propaganda and economic baits of the CCP.
@@tianzhou1083 How?
You do realize that with 1. Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, vietnam, japan and many other countries on their border, 2. Major demographic issues, 3 major climate change issues, 3. Dealing with COVID along with a variety of other issues overthrowing democracy in Australia is incredibly low on their list of priorities. I’d argue that it is non-existent.
No where in the CCP’s discourse do they proclaim their desire to overthrow foreign governments and spread their ideology. People seem to mistake Chinese communism with Russian communism when they are two very different things.
Given their long term history of non exportation of their governmental systems along with their experience of governments forcing their ideologies on them and also given the benefits they see to being good global citizens my guess is that the last thing they want to do is get involved seriously in domestic Australian politics. its just Australians who can’t stand (can;t comprehend) the fact that Asians simply don’t care about what they think.
@@tianzhou1083 I disagree. They are merely exposing them.
@@nzurstrassen I beg to differ.
Of course Australia is not considered directly important. But you can clearly see the behaviour and commentary of Australia or Australians is something CCP wants to shape and mould. (Same as master beats the slave, even though, slave is unimportant to the master).
If Australia opinions and commentary is unimportant, why block their wine sales? To teach them not to speak out (influence is desired here). If Australia is unimportant, why influence their politics (refer Sam Dastyari)?
杀鸡儆猴
CCP has a huge population and plenty of capacity to attend to multiple matters at once.
@@rigelb9025 If only they are true but they are not.
How Asia sees China
1)Japan: 90% hate
2)Phillippines:90% hate
3)South Korea:80% hate
4)India:80% hate
5)Vietnam:75% hate
6)Taiwan:70% hate
7)Indonesia:55% hate
8)Singapore:50% hate
Chinese people should know this and it is in their hands to change China to a democratic country for the benefit to the people of China.
Source: trust me bro
@Kian Hong Chua Yes it is true that Japanese committed atrocities to China and China has learned no lessons from this. Now China has committed grave atrocities towards its own Chinese people and to the Tibetans, Ueghurs, Mongolians and Hong Kongers in this modern 21st century. Shame on China CCP.
Source? "From the deepest darkest corners of my head"
buzz off bot ! I see you spamming every comment section with your silly fake info.
Maintaining the status quo is so unfair for the 23.5 million Taiwanese citizens. They have been living under constant pressure and threats from the PRC for too long.
Taiwan is a sovereign country. It’s not under the PRC. PRC regime never ruled Taiwan for even a second. This is about two sovereign countries, one bigger trying to invade a smaller one.
@@kongking5048 Of course Taiwan is an independent sovereign country. Like it or not. Even without any formal diplomatic relations with any country, Taiwan will still be considered a sovereign country of its own.
Taiwan has it’s own Central Government and President elected by its 23.5 millions freedom loving citizens. It’s a vibrant and thriving democracy.
PRC and Taiwan are not affiliated in any way. Only the Taiwanese citizens can decide their own future.
Keep dreaming PRC!
@@kongking5048 So you want to start WWIII for the sake of grabbing an island that you really don't need? You think that is a smart thing to do? Communist China HAS NO CLAIM to Taiwan. Nobody in Taiwan has lived under the communist regime and they do not want to. Leave Taiwan alone or you will start something that will destroy EVERYONE!
@@kongking5048 When the PRC dishonoured the “Sino-British Joint Declaration”, that’s the time when US’s “One China Policy” shifts and changed.
@@kongking5048 Whatever u wanna say here. Everyone knows Taiwan is an sovereign democratic country of its own. U can’t even identify facts.
Hong Kong is an integral part of the PRC, but Taiwan is a sovereign country, with its president elected by its 23.5 million citizens.
Taiwan is the result of an un-ended Chinese civil war. During tumultuous back then, Chinese people would rather improve their life rather than having endless conflict. The indigenious Taiwanese was "invaded" by Chinese Immigrant back then. Now The US is using Taiwan as a pawn for conflicts, because the US thrive in never ending conflicts. Over the past 50 years, the agenda for the US is to have endless war because its good business for the weapon companies and big media. Those companies are profited when there are insecurities.
Weapon companies = More fear, more reason for them to manufacture it for defense.
Media = More fear, more clicks and more watchers, more advertising they can charge on their web/channel.
Majority of the people don't really care about what happen to people in China/Taiwan they just want to live their life happily, prosper and grow.
But when the media weaponized the mass to fulfill the warmongers agenda, then you know it's propaganda.
Taiwan is just another pawn for the US to make the rich richer. An excuse under the pretense of "DEMOCRACY & HUMAN RIGHTS"
It is. Sorry china are givin us no choice.
As a Taiwanese Australian, I'd argue that my picking preference for 'status quo' is a 'little forced'. If I choose for independence, and China starts firing missiles at my family and relatives then take over the island, we lose the chance for both 'Status quo' and 'independence'. It's complete annihilation of Taiwanese people. We also kind of "have to" pick the status quo, because I recall the U.S. will only intervene if we do NOT instigate a war with China at the expense of our others.
By picking status quo, China can continue to apply moderated military pressure on the island, giving U.S. opportunity to continue sales of defensive weapons to Taiwan with high premiums. This provides some logic for the US to support Taiwan, while Taiwanese keep their freedom (at least within their little island).
That's the current equation. (Sad, but nevertheless - reality)
If you want to know whether the Taiwanese people actually want Taiwan independence, every time there is an election, and our green party commits to Taiwan Independence initiatives, their votes surge, and more often than not, win the election.
If even Nauru can be considered a country, Taiwan with a population as large as Australia, with its own Law, Currency, Military, First Nations People, Flag, Education System, Stock Exchange, and Culture, how is it not a country today? Its like saying you and all your organs intact is not a independent human, but an extension of your mother's leg perhaps?
It's such a joke that the CCP keeps bringing up this old topic to distract mainland citizens from their actual economic and social problems. They should really spend more time fixing their banking regulations, do their job for once, and stop silencing respectable Chinese people like Jack Ma.
Reminds me of when Bloomberg wrote an article about how there aren’t any Chinese debt traps. While in some ways, this may be technically true. Chinese foreign policy has resulted in terrifying results.
@@charlestancred6181, I buy the idea of employing the services of a financial advisor because finding that balance between saving and living requires counsel. I would not mind looking up the professional that helped you if that's okay with you. I will be retiring in two years and I will be needing some management on my much larger portfolio. Don't want to take any chances.>
@@charlestancred6181 Thank you for this amazing tip, I verified her, wrote her, and scheduled a Phone. She seems Proficient.
Funny, when you go directly to the Africans, they will tell you the West debt traps is more severe. China is turning Africa into modern nations. The Western media is bias. Do not ask the western media, ask the Africans.
On the other hand western foreign policy has spread peace and prosperity everywhere especially in the Middle East. Western intervention in Libya for example destroyed the country to such an extent there is slave trade there now. Afghanistan, there's another success story.
*Australian foreign policy has resulted in terrifying results. 中国加油！🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳
"Is capitalism destroying democracy" haha what a joke. U can say about ANYTHING, is drugs destroying ? Is freedom destroying democracy? and so on... why? Because this is democracy. It may not be perfect bud democracy is the best thing we have at this point.
Freedom of speech doesn't only exist in capitalist economies... You're conflating the two.
Everything too much is not good for anything. Even too much sex destroys your mojo. So no, democracy is not for everything!
@@dama9150 the sentence I was talking was a question made in the interview: " Is capitalism destroying democracy". Also, tell me a non capitalist country that you have freedom of speech?
@@Gomide83 As I said, you're conflating economic systems with governance. Our freedoms stem from the governance.
@@dama9150 what governance non capitalist is also a freedom of speech?
The program advertises itself as - beyond politics and trade - but week after week after week, there is nothing but Stan's politics in it. 🤣
That's a singularly reason why I do not watch this programme. Ms. Hsu said how about aiwan people. For a researcher, she's a fraud since the UN and the world recognised Taiwan as a part of China. Taiwan IS NIT a sovereign country.
Stan loves the American Military industrial complex
@@maxsweetman6341 That is because it supplies the funding of ASPI, where he is a Senior Fellow. So much for his preaching of transparency.
These woke ideologists will never understand.
In the same sentence, he talked up increasing the minimum wage again as a great thing (already highest in the world) and also talked about how they have no idea how to fix supply chain issues that are crippling our economy. There's a reason why many industries are impossible in Australia, it's the insanely high minimum wage.
It's cheaper to grow fruit in Australia, fly it to new zealand for it to be put in a tin, then flown it back to Australia, then it is pay someone to put it in a tin next to the farm it was grown in.
I'm all for a decent minimum wage, free education and health care, but until this country makes it really easy to build a business, we will never reach out potential
How to tell the world you don't understand how capitalism works...
What about poverty? The minimum wage is designed to be a living wage.
German Auto workers $69000 per year, Korea auto workers $70K-$80K usd per year depending on bonuses.
In modern economies, most skilled workers aren't making minimum wages.
Bahahahaha, the fruit from Australia goes to NZ for packing so they can mix in product from 3rd world countries making it look like it was from NZ...BUT YOU KEEP DREAMING UP STORIES TO SPREAD ABOUT HIGH WAGES WHILST YOU EXPECT SLAVERY BY THE LOOKS
This group are very nice people, stands for right and democracy. If so, let talk and discuss about the wrongful war in Afghanistan, totally wiped out the country for 20 years, how many families got killed? Should those make the wrongful for war as war crime? Somehow I didn’t see this group stand for the right.
Afghan choice the Taliban. They want a mesirable life for themselves
@@Andi-cr9ko you have to know, that doesn’t mean any country have the right to invade another country for that reason. By the way that’s not the reason for the 20 years of invasion with millions of families got displaced and killed, the invader should rebuild that country for this wrongful war, should they? Stand for the right! sad!
@@aferrari5538 Then perhaps the Taliban surrender Osama bin Ladin during that time.
lets not forget Iraq too. Invaded on a fabricated pretext.
@@tweedy4sg If only Saddam Hussien let the UN inspector to inspect those facilities that would negate those fabricated pretext but Saddam didn't let in.
Tibet, Xinjang, Hong Kong, Taiwan are all Chinese territories. All you have to do is look at a WW2 map from the US/west to understand this.
Facts aren’t important when it comes to politics or religion. This is the reason why these debates only goes in circles.
Some saying: Hey uncle Sam china is not USSR to break up. china learned from USSR history ,how to prevent breakup from westren modern day colonial tactics.
1:35 Respect and honor status quo, no unilateral change - blatant hypocrisy of Aus Gov between Ukraine and Solomon Island cases
meanwhile Oz plan on more patrols in the SCS to keep poking the dragon
China invaded vietnam 250,000 soldiers. Do you think the first question of the show is necessary?
If you sniff more of the root cause, Pol Pot - the worst dictator that kills 2-3 millions Cambodians, he was helped by the US.
also during the sino-viet war, the US used Agent Orange, please google that too
This would be a much better conversation and debate if we had someone pro-China or even a CCP representative. Otherwise it risks becoming an anti-China echochamber which is exactly what we don't need on this complex issue. Also having a Taiwanese individual to bring that perspective would be good.
No one aligning with the CCP can be trusted. It's a baby throwing the toys out of the cot there's no rational discourse coming from that side.
Agreed. No fan of the CCP but they should be represented and called out when they inevitable propagandize
Inevitably
@@coastsouljah ASEAN countries should note that shameless western imperialist wants blood and wars in china asean region thawrting development of the region bringing death, destruction and poverty for asians
@@coastsouljah being wise and realistic doesn't make you a fan of the CCP. I guess you are simply right
How much IPA propaganda do we have to hear before we never have to see Paterson again?
Stan was a "Fellow" at ASPI until recent years too. There is a stench about this whole anti-China push.
@@beesplaining1882 Anti-China? LOL, what a joke. China is acting like a badly behaved little child that can't have what it wants. Taiwan does not want to be part of China and they have the right to determine their own future. This is not about what is good for China or for Taiwan, this is about 'face' and 'face' is BS! Reunification would be no more than the extermination of the Taiwanese people by mainland China. Ethnic Chinese killing each other FOR NO REASON!
@@beesplaining1882 good point, now I got the answer why Stan regarded himself as a victim when discussing aboriginal topics , Stan behaved like school bullying kids when he talked about China---"white" racist
Democracy = divide the demos, the people. And also tell them that they decide with their vote...but keep talking about the fact that only corporations and rich people decide via lobbyism.
why do west and some east country believe only one system should exist in this world? that would be erasing the competition and ignoring the diversity!!!
impressed & shocked at the same time...
Sharan, you are amazing. Your thoughts and analysis should be part of ANY government in the world.
Let's compare facts on the ground. You say there is no democracy in China, but the Chinese government is providing all the essential of life to their citizen not a single of them sleep outside because he can't afford house or flat rent.
You say there is democracy in America, but a lot of are sleeping in the street because then can't afford house or flat rent.
In these situation what is a better system of government?
Democracy in western country is a propaganda for the fools while a class of a few group of people enjoy all the wealth of the country
You cannot ignore history. It is a civil war that never ended and was intervened by the US 7th fleet. Remember that Taiwan on multiple times tried to invade mainland China also.
There have been no large battles since 1950. The PRC won the civil war, the ROC lost. That doesn't mean the ROC completely went away.
This is just like Russia claiming ex-soviet states. The have been operating independently for decades. The claim is plain belligerence.
You can hope for peaceful reunification, that is fine, and I am all for mutual understanding.
When wages dont keep up with inflation, workers are getting poorer at the same time corporations are making massive profits.
We have to put limits on profits, ~2% or so, with continuous improvement in products/services in contrast to constantly getting worse products.
Corporations have to operate in the public interest or else they are a detriment and that simply cannot be allowed by a decent society.
If the Catalans want to be independent from Spain, will western nations support the Catalans as they support Taiwan?
A bunch of hypocrites.
A totally false comparison. The CCP has never held any authority over the Republic of China in Taiwan.
Why not? The Catalans are ethnically, culturally and linguistically different from the rest of Spain. For all intents and purposes, they deserve their own country that is separate to the rest of Spain.
I just love how you don't stop to ask some of the people from these "WEZZZSTURN" nations what they think of the topic, you instead just assume their views for them and then accuse them of hypocrisy for the views you've assumed that they hold.
Diplomacy needs the backing of strong military/techonogy/economic powers. Without all these pillars balance out, talk as you might want, no one would listen let alone authoritarian regimes
Fascinating to find five people to discuss australian/chinese relations whiteout one of them being strongly supportive of China. It’s almost like that isn’t a viewpoint that should be even considered.
Therein is the problem, the blanket refusal to ever see the world from China's point of view, and after all of the invasions, famines, British East India Company's Opium Wars, Japanese War crimes, appropriation of Chinese land by multiple Imperialists and Chiang Kai-Shek, and the utterly shocking wanton destruction and theft of treasures of the Old Summer Palace.
I'm no fan of the CCP
But yes. Chinese representation would seem proper.
They would never agree to a forum to discuss these matters in the way done on this show. There are attempts to do this on ABCs China watch and it's not a discussion, it's propaganda of the highest order.
None of them held that view because it isn’t a view that should be considered. Nobody would be surprised if a panel on race relations did not include a speaker who espoused KKK talking points. Same thing applies here
It shouldn’t. Cry ab it
"Global architecture for peace". for this, first one should be reshaping the old concept about China.
Its on even if they cant c it
Democracies around the World need to protect the self-evident human right of people to determine their own political future. Taiwan may be geographically a part of “One China”, but the politics is up to the people of Taiwan.
If Taiwan is a part of China, then it's politics should be up to the people of China including Taiwan, and not just Taiwan ALONE. And more importantly, and specifically NOT the meddling & interfering US-led west. So butt the F out !
@@tweedy4sg Both mainland and Taiwan were in Sun Yat-Sen’s Republic of China. The Civil War was won by the CCP through it’s United Front work avoiding the Japanese invaders, while the Republic fought the Japanese. Taiwan was, and still is, a part of the Republic of China. The CCP should stay in the lands it won in 1949. It should get out of Tibet and stop torturing the Turkish people of East Turkistan (“Xinjiang”)
@@tweedy4sg The People of China have no influence, only the senior members of the CCP elite. Chinese Communism is a Western system, Marxist-Leninist, created by Marx in Great Britain, and Lenin in Europe. It was copied by Mao to give himself absolute power. He starved millions of Chinese people in the "Great Leap Forward". True Chinese government was the Republic of China, created by Sun Yat-Sen a great man of Chinese history. This Republic is alive and well and now fully democratic in Taiwan. When the mainland Chinese discard the Western Marxist-Leninist Communist Party, and rejoin the democratic Republic of China, only then will there be an authentic "One China".
@@anEyePhil yada yada yada .... you're so wrong about Chinese people's influence. Anyway most Chinese don't give a stuff about ideology. All they want is getting China unified back in one piece again as defined by PRC, NOT ROC !!!
Taiwan is a US Aircraft Carrier.
And its a no from me!
Why are politicians completely incapable of giving opinions on hypothetical situations??? I know why, buy still, it's the most ridiculous answer... they are continuously giving hypotheticals about this policy or that policy (especially in opposition) and what might happen if/when they can implement that policy.
The situation would have been different if and only if, US did not disturb the calm in Tiwan strate, so, when there is push, there will be push back.
Great episode by Stan the man!
Thank you Jennifer for placing us at the center of the stage. I have to tell you foreign audience, we Taiwanese have been neglected by you too long and China's bully has been a big trauma for too many of us. Our achievement in all areas, full democracy and peaceful transition from authoritarianism, semiconductor expertise, highly educated workforce, universal health care, extreme low crime rate, highest recycling rate, legalized LGBTQ rights, top press freedom, generous charity contribution, all and all, and I am not even talking about our economy. We deserve recognition by all of the world including China, the country so poor with only gdp number left. Safety and dignity. That's all we are looking for.
@marconi
You copy and paste everywhere. Now I understand the power of taiwan government's network army 1450.
@@waynegore5291 I am eager to tell more foreign people my true feelings for broader awareness, as being a Taiwanese under the shadow of China the bully. You may label whatever you want as that reflects your ideology and stereotype, not mine. If you noticed the copy/paste, you are also very concerned on the issue. Feel free to make your own points.
@marconi
Hopefully, copy and paste doesn't become your habit or even personality. The debate in taiwan right now should give you something to learn. Copy and paste a master degree paper.
@@waynegore5291 what a comment to show how cynical you are. Broadcasting myself it is.
@marconi
Frankly speaking, I hate to see our taiwan friends become our president Donald Trump once called low-end people.
Like it or not Australia is still a whites dominant culture. People of colour are still facing discrimination every day. I was born in China but live most of my life in Australia. I see myself as a proud Australian but that doesn't matter in the eyes of most white Australians. I had an interview as part of my job application for a government job, and one of the questions was which I would support in the event of Australia bombing my hometown birthplace. That was an outrageous question, war crime is war crime even if committed by Australia.
That's Australia's government hypocrisy! Respecting One China Policy is just paying lips service, just as its US master and allie does. A weak US lapdog has no dignity if it does not have principles and continue to support the biggest warmonger and human rights abuser of the century. We in Asean and many more countries around the world (except US, Japan (another lapdog) & G7 countries) see this clearly as we witnessed the devastation and loss of millions of innocent lives in Syria, Yemen, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and many more weaker countries. Has Australia ever spoken out or perhaps whispered against its US master? No! Instead it has joined the US and committed similar war crimes against these invaded countries. Does Australia dare to discuss these facts in public forums? How shameful mate!
Racism and discrimination exists in every country. How do you think people of European ancestry are treated in China? You don't need to answer because the answer is all over the net from ex-pats who have tried to live there. In Aisa in general, people with European/Australian passports are charged more than locals - institutionalised discrimination. Australia is one of the more tolerant countries but yes, racism does exist here too.
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen are you saying we should put up with racism here in Australia? Regarding expats paying more in Asian countries, international students here pay higher fees to attend schools and unis, they don't enjoy Medicare benefits, no transport concession, what do you say? Putting all that aside, I am not expat, I am Australian brother.
@@bokyeahlao1 No, we should not put up with racism BUT it gets very tiring to continually have Australia blamed for racism as if we are the only ones. Racism is a human characteristic that we have to work on but it is not going away any time soon. Lets have others who want to point the finger at us, admit that their own countries are also racist (some exceptionally so) and that they too need to work on the problem. Australia is predominantly peaceful and tolerant. That doesn't mean that we can't do better, we can. For the record, my wife is Chinese so I understand the problem but it is a world wide problem not just limited to Australia.
@@WesternAustraliaNowAndThen That's a great point actually. As a white Australian I think a lot about the racism that exists in this country and it makes me proud when I see things changing for the better. Your comment highlights the complexity of the argument though for sure. In every Asian country I've visited I was treated differently by 99 percent of the locals because of my white skin. I still remember the feeling, like I was firmly in the minority and not liked at all. Only tolerated.
White Horse, russia
Red Horse ,china
Green horse, grean agenda
Black horse, mass starvation
'I don't think capitalism will destroy democracy but inequality has that great potential.' I'd really like to know where you think that inequality comes from
Capitalism that is kept in check is ok but what we have now is rampant capitalism where money is more important than people. That is damaging society.
Its like Stan referred to “Australias 47 billionaires have more combined wealth than the poorest 7.7 million Australians”
Source: Oxfam report Jan22
Exactly. The fact that he, a Labor Party member, doesn't understand that the issue is systemic speaks volumes about them.
@@dama9150 The Labor Party is not interested in stopping bribery of political parties. They play a major role in maintaining inequality and actively preventing democracy.
👉 the native Australian like 🤭😜😂🤣
Chin a probably want the chip technology machines and Australian iron ore.
I fully support the lady speaker who said we should have dialog for peace, not preparation for war.
Taiwan Hong Kong part of china what y’all talking bout human right oh pls Australia in irag afghan what are those human wrong
Sorry but thats it.
The fact that a Labor minister doesn't understand that the economic issues are systemic says everything about the failure of the modern party.
JAQ JAMES
FFS ABC! Do some research, please.
Isn't she affiliated with the Australian Citizens Party, which itself is based on the American LaRouche political cult?
Do people not think about the words that are being said? In this video they said that we Australians should stay with the status quo of the one China policy and that Taiwan should not seek independence. Ok, let’s think about that for a second. If there is only one China and Taiwan isn’t an independent country, then who does Taiwan belong to?
Will Russia support China like US for Taiwan? US supports Ukraine against Russia, not sure if china is economically supporting Russia/Ukraine war.
Peace is most important for Asia Pacific. This crisis could and should be resolved through diplomatic negotiation with China. If negotiation contains the following elements, there is a good chance of success:- 1) Due respect for the One China Policy; 2) Official visits to Taiwan should be approved by China; China should stop its military drill while foreign military force promise not to enter Taiwan water.
Capitalism works, Corporate capitalism doesn't, make them pay their fair share here, stop the tax dodge.
If that man's we need to stop donations to political parties so be it.
Might be a able?
That guys hot but a lawyer
Love and harmony are the keys to prosperity and wellnes for family, society, nation, and the world. Conflict and confrontation are the recipies to chaos and turmoils. If we don't even know God or fight over religions and do not love one another as God beseeches us, how do we even
expect to live in peace? First, remove every seed of conflict and animosity from our consciousness. Fill it with love, compassion, care and kindness. Abandon selfishness and material-centredness. Embrace spirituality and peace.
Its not enouh. Just isent. Love her but china will do her to sorry to late
Friggin substandard panelists as expected. Australia should publicly commit its troops to help Twn help China and cut all ties with China. Do it or shut up.
so much thoughtful commentand I especially applaud Sharon Burrows comment about planning for peace.
Unwatchable..
Don't watch then pinky
The problem between China and Australia, China and it's province Taiwan, is actually the problem between China and America.
If China can defeat America or America can defeat China, these problems are not problems.
This host talks way too much! Pushing his opinions around... Let the guests speak!
They just want us to start it. But its very close if not tomoro
1980's the age of investment in Australia...
I would spend money on comuacation skills I find our politicians , we talk about our value, we have people homeless and in poverty
Please look at peace there is a lot place where China is doing a lot better than Australia please look at 95.5 percent of Chinese are happy with the way there country is
run Australia has a long way to go to catch up
Freedom and democracy are nowdays defined by west.
So President Xi common properly is good thing
Learn the lingo if you want to comment...
18:02 and 22:48 but economic inequality comes from unchecked capitalism so your point is mute
Useless news
It's not news, it's a discussion.
laughable, how many of these panelists lived in china long enough to understand how chinese think or doing things? it is like have some non-tech guy tell me how to code. wahahahah.
Plenty of people who lived in China for decades understand things perfectly. And that is that the CCP is a disgrace
@@greenonionsalad lol, you talked to those "plenty of people" in china? if you go to any prison in australia, you can get the same answer.
@@hellothere2469 yep, my friend lived there for 15 years and left due to the disgraceful behaviour of the CCP
@@greenonionsalad lol, 1 person out of 1.5 billion, surely you knwo what that means.
A bunch of deeply biased foreigners talking about China’s civil issues without any facts based, emotional and prejudiced. Funny…
Just a comment on the event's structure, I like how they got the audience involved and even asked them a follow up question or two. Everyone was listening to each other, time was a bit short, could've gone for two hours at least I feel to get everyone's main talking points out, and perhaps debate over a couple of more contentious points. As someone who is on his way back to Asia to live, this topic is important to me. I don't want to be there when another invasion breaks out! After all, let's call a spade a spade. Let's fight for peace people. God I really do feel useless writing this.
Sometimes you have to prepare for war to keep the peace. We all saw what happened when the world tried to appease the Nazis. Giving in to bullies just encourages them.
When the ABC and the Labor party finish scratching each other’s back, could the Labor party do something about the cost of living that is sky rocketing under their government 🤮👎🤮👎🤮
Ahhh yes..
Another 'let's blame the new government who I don't align with for the previous government's 9 years of rorts, mismanagement and incompetence and cry about how the new government are not able to rectify the impact of the worst PM in Australian history' dribbling fool 🤤🥴
LOL, they are doing what they can but after 9 years of corruption, rorts and mismanagement by the LNP, it is going to take a while, not even taking into account many factors that are international and beyond their control. Typical rusted on LNP simp comment.
I am a Chinese, there is an elementary issue within China where very little talked about. A professor in China recently just said the biggest problem today with China is that its people is generally not patriotic. They might be nationalistic for certain issues but not patriotic. As such, it would be extremely dangerous to introduce western form of democracy.
How come Taiwanese can do democracy? Koreans, Japanese?
@@happyhappynuts oh you did not understand his comment instead you put all Asians in the same bucket. Why? "Because they look the same". Typical.
You've got a chip on your shoulder. Not everything is about appearance my man.
It's a fair question if Taiwan can do it, why not China? If other Asian countries can move from kingdom style feudal arrangement, why not China?
It's not so much about how people look as some (drawing broadstrokes) societal values are similar in East Asia / North Asia being that there is more emphasis on the collective and duty / responsibilities rather than individual factors (which a person might ascribe to USA).
If you understand the most important part about democracy is the ability to scrutinise leaders then there is no reason a change in government is prevented from delivering benefits to the people.
We can see that it's not necessary to follow USA model either, can follow east Asian democracies or others like Finland, New Zealand.
Media freedom would bring immense benefits to China
@@happyhappynuts When you have 1.4 billion people to cater for, in such a diverse society with so many ethnic groups it is never going to be like 55m korea, 23m Taiwan or 120m Japan.
Your initial comment was too simplistic, hence my mirrored response. But OK now I understand you do not have those typical views from the average commentor.
The whole point of his comment was saying that China will do their own version of democracy in its own time, whenever that time will be, but only once they are ready. They don't want nor need other nations pushing democracy on them.
which profeesor , we have 1.4billion ppl here.
Australia is one of the key nations that can bring peace into the region.
How?
As long they are the US lapdog, i think peace would be the last in the list of Australia's (US's) interest.
@@clairde The USA's lapdog or the PRC's lapdog. Subservience to the American imperialists, or subservience to the Chinese social imperialists. Neither option is in Australia's interests, and yet for some reason, these are the only two options mentioned in public debate.
@@jamesclarke2789 As much as I agree at the moment there is 2 superpower blocs, but i disagree saying China is an imperialist. They are capitalist socialist state, where gaining influence outside China has to be on a business basis that favors win-win solution for both internal party (China) and external party. Granted there are border issues, like any other countries with borders.
I think its a long way to go for Australia to be sovereign, since all majority data servers, military, advanced tech, media are all relying on USA at this moment.
Personally it would be best for Australia interest to be like Singapore, taking both US and China side of economy and political advantage, but remains neutral on most cases.
@@clairde "They are capitalist socialist state"
There's nothing socialist about the PRC currently. Only a facade.
The fact that they claim to uphold "Socialism with Chinese Characteristics'" doesn't change the fact that Chinese State Capitalism isn't Socialism.
The Chinese party state can claim it's a proxy for the proletariat all they want, but it still doesn't change the fact that there isn't any true widespread social ownership of the means of production across the current Chinese economy.
"gaining influence outside China has to be on a business basis that favors win-win solution for both internal party (China) and external party"
That's what the Chinese goverment claims. That it wants "Win-WIN economic relationships".
But you don't judge someone by what they say, you judge them by what they do. And what the Chinese goverment is doing is effectively replicating the 'dependency theory' relationships that emerged between countries like America and the developing world.
Except now, it's China and not America who is imposing dependency on other developing economies.
In the early USA, a collection of economic views that became known as 'The American System' became influential.
It originated from the founding father Alexander Hamilton and supportive economists such as Friedrich List, and actively advocated for the American goverment of the 19th century to shape its economy around 3 interrelated policies:
1-a system of tariffs and subsidies, to shield new infant American industries from pre-established competition in Europe, and to boost the infant American industries international competitiveness.
2-Federal goverment investment in 'internal improvements', which basically refers to large federal goverment infrastructure investments, to boost the American economy.
3-centralized control of credit allocation in the form of a goverment controlled national bank, which would provide loans to productive investment rather than speculative investment.
The American system was inherently economic nationalist, as in it aimed to both increase economic self-sufficiency for the US and maximize exports while minimizing imports.
The system continued on in some form until it was gradually dismantled from the 1930s-1980s in favor of free-trade and economic globalization in America.
The reason why I mention the American System in this comment is because of the influence it had on China's model of economic development from Deng onwards, and the implications it has for the global economy.
People in both modern day America and China rarely seem to understand the American Hamiltonian influences on Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms.
But if you look at some of the central characteristics of the 'Reform and Opening-Up' program that Deng pursued from the 1980s onwards, including market-based reforms paired with protectionist tariffs and industrial subsidies to protect new Chinese industries from foreign competition, massive goverment investment in infrastructure, centralized goverment control over major financial institutions and the allocation of credit, what becomes rather evident is that Deng and his successors decided to pursue a modern Chinese version of the American System, with the heavy influence of figures like Hamilton, List and Carey often remaining unspoken.
Afterall, it's 'Socialism with Chinese Characteristics' that the Chinese goverment is pursuing, not 'Socialism with American Characteristics'.
Revealing that the Chinese goverment took heavy inspiration from the ideas of historical Americans including a former founding father of the US would inevitably lead to confusion among both the Chinese population and an international audience consisting of people who despise America and want to oppose anything American.
The significance of the American System's influence on the Chinese economy is that the Chinese economy has emerged in an economic nationalist manner. China may have reduced tariffs from the early 2000s onwards, but various forms of non-tariff barriers blocking foreign competition remain in place, and the Chinese goverment still heavily subsidies a number of 'strategic' industries through industrial policies like 'Made in China 2025'.
It means that while other economies around the world including the USA from the 1980s-2010s pursued 'Neoliberalism', which included a reduction of tariffs and subsidies and free trade, China pursued its form of economic development, which like the American System that influenced it, is economic nationalist.
Economic nationalist policies such as the American System of Hamilton, or China's model of economic development are not meant to create 'Win-Win' economic relations. They're meant to promote the growth of the economic nationalist economy at the outright expense of other economies.
Like the American economy of the 19th century, China doesn't implement economic nationalist tariff protectionism and industrial policies like 'Made in China 2025' with the intention of everyone around the world winning.
Instead, China implements selective protectionist policies, and uses industrial policies like 'MIC 2025' to funnel subsidies and cheap loans into strategic industries with the intention of artificially strengthening China's domestic industries and giving them a competitive advantage over foreign competitors.
And the Chinese goverment pressures foreign economies, both developed and developing, to support free trade policies so that China's companies can easily enter foreign markets, and with the aid of industrial policies like 'Made in China 2025', outcompete and crush competition in these foreign markets and establish market dominance.
The result is that Chinese companies can growth rapidly, both domestically and abroad, because of China's economic nationalist policies, and simultaneously foreign companies are crushed and outcompeted both in their own markets and abroad.
It's means that the Chinese economy experiences massive growth, especially in the areas of heavy industry, manufacturing, science and technology, and simultaneously other economies around the world aren't able to develop or maintain their own advanced manufacturing industries because of how Chinese competitors have been artificially strengthened by economic nationalist policies.
Countries and groupings like the USA, the EU and India have been the most vocal critics of China's economic nationalist policies, which is largely why the Americans, Europeans and Indians began implementing their own economic nationalist policies from the mid-2010s onwards in order to protect their own industries.
But it's not just China's opponents which have been negatively impacted. Many of the countries which China claims to be helping with so-called 'WIN-WIN economic relations' have found that their own advanced industries are struggling to grow because of the artificially strengthened Chinese competition.
Perfect example case in point being the countries of Latin America, such as Brazil, which went through a period of premature de-industrialization during the 2000s, at the exact same time Chinese competition entered their markets. The natural resource and basic service industries in Latin America benefitted from Chinese growth, but value adding industries such as the Brazilian manufacturing industry went into deep decline because they simply couldn't compete with China's subsidized industries.
The result is that Latin American countries are now over reliant on natural resource extraction and service industries for their economies and are unable to develop advanced manufacturing industries which would allow them to escape the middle-income trap.
If you think an international system like that is a 'WIN-WIN' economic scenario, where China uses economic nationalist policies to strengthen its own industries and where other developing economies like those in South America, or the Pacific are unable to develop internationally competitive value-adding industries as a result, then you really haven't been paying attention.
It's not WIN-WIN economic relations. It's economic imperialism plain and simple, which is why I see the Chinese as imperialists just as much as the American are imperialists.
Lenin and Mao both used the term 'Social Imperialism' to refer to countries which are Socialist in name and Imperialist in nature. It's ironic that Mao's successors became the exact thing that he publicly derided.
I have never seen the term ''Status Quo'' be more openly weaponized than here. But come to think of it, I guess it can easily serve as the ultimate foil.
Great feedback from people other than political reps excluding the intelligence guru . Shame about the lack of audience mask participation and or the presence of n95 respiratory protectors . I feel for the presenters and their reduced capacity to represent as a result of audience members unable to comprehend dispersal and reproductive conditions promoting the reproduction rates of pathogens . ( heart hugs )