I've had solder-coated wires slip out of screw terminals before, due to the high ductility of the solder. I have since stopped doing that and have switched to crimping ferrules onto bare wire instead. The ridges left on the ferrules after crimping (at least with my tool) also helps with retention.
I second this. Bootlace ferrules, while initially something that seems to make no sense, are a godsend. They keep the strands under control and held together without making the wire susceptible to breaking like solder.
It's not the solders ductility, it's because solder starts to flow over time under mechanical pressure, this takes multiple months to take effect. Depending on the ammount of solder they fall out by themselfs or can be pulled out easily.
the issue with tinning wires going into screw terminals isn't just the they get brittle, it's that solder will cold flow under pressure so they will get loose over time
That cold flow thing is something I doubted for a long time. Until I had to repair a saw that my granddad put a longer cable on. Tinned ends in a screw terminal. Yes, old saws apparently had screw terminals in them to change the lead! Shortened it, put ferrules on, works great now. So it really does happen. It only takes a LONG time. So anything permanent, especially with 100+W devices or house wiring, you should take the time. I wouldnt worry about a 12V fan test setup.
I've repaired industrial machines within the warranty period where the manufacturer has tinned wires going into a terminal block. It comes loose, the high current connection burns, sometimes other things nearby are damaged by the heat.
@@theSam91it's been a pretty common issue and genuine fire hazard in the consumer 3d printing space. It was a scarily common practice for *some nonspecific manufacturers*.
I was going to comment about this too, it is a large issue. Chinese 3D printer manufacturers used tinned wires in screw terminals for the power input of the mainboard and for connecting the heated bed and heater cartridge, loads of people ended up with those connections failing (without movement or vibration on the wire itself and it is the connection that fails not the wire getting brittle and breaking) and ending up burning the screw terminal and mainboard and sometimes starting fires. That is with 12 or 24 V but relatively high current. The only reason chinese manufacturers did it was because tinning the wires made them easier to insert into the screw terminals and it was cheaper than using ferrules. In general when using screw terminals or similar, if it is stranded wire you should use a ferrule, if it is solid wire then just use it directly but avoid putting bare stranded wire in the screw terminal as it can move over time and any loose strands can cause shorts, but never tin the wires because of the cold flow issue. A possible way to test this for people that don’t believe is to set up two screw terminals with one having tinned wire in it and another with either bare or ferruled wire, tighten it as much as you normally would and then leave it, come back a while later and see if they have loosened at all. If you are able to accurately measure small resistances then measure the resistance of the connections too.
If remember correctly tinning wires fitted into screw terminals was specifically banned by the old safety standards (EN60950-1) for this very reason. Can and does cause fires.
Ferrules are the way forward with this wire like that combined with screw terminals. Well worth the time and effort. I'm currently looking in to similar fan setup due to high Co2 levels.
@@barrieshepherd7694 No, outside CO2 level is around 350ppm, but humans exhale CO2 constantly, so the level in a closed room can rise to unhealthy levels above 2000ppm, causing headaches and fatigue and eventually even suffocation. That's why it's important to ventilate rooms, especially in winter. The rise in concentration depends on the size of the room, number of people, activity level and how well the building is sealed from outside air. For example, a single person sleeping in a 15m² room reaches a concentration of 2000ppm after about 8-10 hours. If there are 2-3 working in the same room, it only takes 2 hours to reach that level. Recommended CO2 concentration for working is below 1200ppm for best performance. Source: I developed and tested CO2 sensors for a company in Germany.
@@barrieshepherd7694 why would the CO2 level outside be the same as inside? Humans and most other animals breathe air and convert O2 to CO2. If you have a closed box or a box without enough airflow then over time the O2 levels will drop and the CO2 levels will rise as the human or animal in the box converts the O2 to CO2. This is the reason that if you leave most animals or humans in an airtight box they will die, they will eventually use up all the oxygen so you will end up with a box with a dead human or animal with lower O2 levels and higher CO2 levels. Modern houses need to comply to certain standards for air tightness since it affects thermal performance of the house. For thermal performance the more airtight the house is, the better, obviously this directly counters a humans need for airflow so often vents need installed. The same can happen in badly designed houses or spaces, there isn’t enough airflow for a human to spend a lot of time there. Edit: having too high CO2 in the air or too low O2 in the air can cause a lot of serious side effects for humans, you should look it up. There have been a lot of cases of people in home offices (generally converted basements or similar) ending up pretty unwell or with unexplained symptoms when they work in their home offices that had been due to a lack of airflow. If I remember correctly “Jeff Geerling” has a video about it happening to him.
I don't think that ferrules are even exists for these small wire diameters. If so, they are hard to handle. I think we should differentiate between high power and low power connections.
@@JoeBee999 I have small ferrules for these small wires - they are just metal sleeves and don't have the plastic skirt - and yes they are a bit fiddly and not that good with the cheaper (usually the square type) crimpers the star crimper manages with ease.
There are 2 reasons you should not solder leads that are going to get clamped or crimped. You mentioned the first, it can cause wires to become brittle in places, and your reasoning for not caring in this instance is valid. It's not going to get moved, it's not going to be in a vibrating vehicle, it should be fine. However, the other reason is why you should re-do this project: Solder creep / fatigue. If you put solder under tension, it slowly changes shape, becomes deformed, and can come loose from the terminal. I have personally watched this happen when I used to solder my speaker wire leads that go into a spring terminal. I wondered why they kept coming loose, yeah they vibrate, but despite being an otherwise stationary object I had regular issues every few months. Then after I got a job soldering airplane parts I learned why. I quit tinning my speaker leads, and they have been fine ever since. Thankfully in my application it was just an audio signal, but in yours it's a powered connection and obviously a problem. I second another commenter that ferrules are a good idea here, but I don't think they're 100% necessary unless you want to go the distance.
At work, we were taught only ever to tin the last couple of mm of any wires that connect with screw terminals. The copper compresses better than harder, fully-tinned wires would, and the solder on the end stops them fraying. Simples!
No wires to route and hide, no box for the switch. Incredibly simple and very useful. I never considered a wireless switch, which can easily be relocated. That just blew my mind. Thanks for the video.
I remember when PPV was becoming a thing in hospitals (PPV = Positive Pressure Ventilation), and became a bit of a problem with manually opened doors. The higher pressure inside the building meant it was nearly impossible to push the doors against the force of the air trying to escape to the outside atmosphere. Ultimate, sliding doors would be installed, and more laterly, we now see a resurgence of revolving doors. Not only in hospitals, but council offices and other public buildings. Some even seem to have a system of heat recovery to capture the escaping warm air, and returning it to the building. Even our caravan has a pair of fans mounted in the roof to pressurise the interior, which is handy when the pollen count is high, because it means that even on holiday you can have a little refuge against hay fever. I've heard a lot of good comments on pressurised air ventilation systems for various applications. I like the idea of remote control for the fan(s).👍
Most commercial buildings are required to have all exit doors open outward. Are you misremembering the problem? The problem would be that they won’t close, not that they’re difficult to open.
@@NatesRandomVideo Not all.... The hospital in question was "St James" in Leeds, and the doors opened inward. Even to this day, at the Coronary Care Unit at York Hospital, the doors open inward - against the internal pressure. Our local council went for powered sliding doors on its buildings. St James' went for sliding doors too. York hospital opted for revolving doors on its main entrance - interesting though, all of its emergency exits open outward, as do the wheelchair entrances.
I was taught to never fold wires or tin them. That was 40 years ago and metal fatigue is the only reason I have ever been given. I still have a lead-acid charger I built for a 3 AH batteries for something I can't even remember any more. The wires were folded and it still works about 40 years later.
Yes. I usually put a dab of hot-melt on the wire to prevent vibration from moving the wire near the terminal. It was something I noticed in some military surplus gear, and thought it was a good idea. I have about 110 homemade projects in service and not a single failure over nearly 10 years.
I studied industrial electronics and have a wide experience with electrical installations and electronics in many fields. I have found from a few sources that the reason to not solder wire ends that go into screw terminals is that solder can easily deform and will not spring back. As thermal expansion and other events moves the wire ends over the years the solder compresses and the connection becomes loose. This has been cited as a fairly common cause for fires in early electrical installations.
Positive ventilation has two positive benefits. 1) Helping to keep stall dormant air to a minimum. 2) In the case of a fire/smoke condition in a room per say, positive air can actually reduce/prevent such fire/smoke getting into hallways and other rooms. On the other hand, depending on building layout, positive air supply can also exacerbate a fire
Depending on who's talking, sex might not involve either a penis or vagina. Or it might involve them, but not with penetration. In spaces where sex as a concept is discussed broadly, PIV is the preferred shorthand for "the old in and out."
I remember the 70's when the bean counters and the reg makers pushed aluminum and copper plated aluminum for house wiring. I also remember the house fires and the other nonsense when the screw joints corroded or came loose.
Are you sure you really remember these fires? Humans make terrible witnesses and start imagining things happening in their lives that never really happened, is really common phenomenon.
433MHz is in the 70cm ham radio band in the UK, and often used for repeater outputs. The remotes are legal, using a standard called LPD433, up to 10mW of transmission power unlicensed. I wouldn't worry about it interfering with ham operations, but if there's a repeater nearby it could easily interfere with this device instead. The other common frequency (315MHz) can also have problems near airports. But unless you're right up on a more powerful user of the frequency, the attenuation just from your walls and grounded power cables is likely to be plenty. If you do run into problems, you could put the receiver in a grounded metal box with one open side pointed towards the remote. You can get fancier with antennas, but blocking out most of the world is often good enough.
There is a host of requirements the transmitter has to fulfill to be compliant with being license-exempt to use 433.920 MHz. One of which is the TX on/off cycle time and RF output. For the TX to be 10 mw ERP the TX on duty cycle can NOT be greater than 10%, for 1mw ERP, the TX on duty cycle can be up to 100% duty cycle. Note that this is RF output Effective Radiated Power (ERP) which means RF output multiplied by antenna gain. UK Ofcom datasheet on this can be found at - www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0028/84970/ir-2030.pdf
Can always tell an experienced tech when they can hold something and feed the solder in with fingers on that same hand, not easy to do without practice.
I'm always amazed that people don't understand how ventilation works ! Many people use 'extractor' fans but don't realise that there needs to be some way for the air to get in before it can be forced out and they complain that their house is still mouldy ! Positive pressure relies on there being small air gaps around the house but a lot of people try to hermetically seal their houses to prevent heat escaping and cold draughts but try to use extractor fans to remove excess humidity.
It's one of those concepts that seem extremely simple when you already know about it but might not think about if you don't really analyse the problem, I learned about positive pressure when building PCs but never had a reason to think about it before. Concepts like Bernoulli's principle etc are really simple and logical when you sit down and think, I guess the problem is most people are so busy with their lives they just look for quick solutions and want to be done with it 5 minutes ago.
Crimped ferrule terminals over soldering the conductor ends if using a screw terminal block. But, on a device that will remain mounted in a fixed position with no/minor vibration present, if I didn’t have ferrules, then I’d probably solder the conductor ends too. Actually, if the truth be told, I’d probably yield to doing whatever I learned from you. From SC USA, thanks for all of the great content!
Those Arctic Cooling P12 fans are fantastic, been using them for years to vent/cool my computers. PPV is also a concept in desktop and server computers to keep them ventilated for cooling while also ensuring dust is blown out of the computer rather than being sucked in due to a negative internal case pressure. Interesting project, thanks for sharing this.
Yup. And if you need more airflow, there's the "Max" versions of the same fans with higher top speed. Been using these P12 and P14 fans in all of my rigs and apart from that one speed where the blades start resonating/howling, they're _really_ good. especially for the dirt cheap price
What a coincidink, as yesterday (they've been sitting on my desk for 3 months) I fitted 3 of these to the power switches on my PCs! They're the 5VDC jobbies, and they're powered from the always-on USB ports, so I can now power them up remotely using a slim 4-key fob, remote connect via my main PC, and then shut them down when I'm done. The transmit/receive distance is great; it goes through walls & ceilings with no problem. 👍
Those fans are surprising good at moving a lot of air. I have 2 of the exact same in my own home application. I have a "Server + comms kit" in a small cupboard which happens to be under the bathroom. I use 2 of these fans to extract the hot air and send it straight up to the bathroom floor. Which has the effect of mildly heating the marble bathroom floor. Its so good that i had to turn the radiator off in the bathroom as the tiles stay at 19-20c all year around.
In the Fire Life Safety world, PIV stands for Post Indicator Valve. They're used to open and close the water supply to the sprinkler system and show whether the valve is open or shut.
Neat idea, and should help a bit. The "proper" way of doing this would be an Energy Recovery Ventilator but that's usually for air tight buildings that are either new construction or retrofits that are correctly sealed.
Thanks Clive. While I love your tear down videos it’s the hacks and project videos I enjoy most. I use these opto coupled relays on likes of e bikes where there are 5v lines like on the brake switches , to signal controller to cut power to motor when brakes are activated ,I can wire up brake lights. Or in other instances ,where the supplied headlight runs on 6v and I wish to fit say a 12v or 48v headlight unit. So since these relays can handle 220v I can power items directly off the bikes battery but use the original switches at lower voltage to trigger the relays.
Whole hose fans are incredibly useful, had a house with a large commercial unit, Spring time was great, pop open a few windows, turn on the fan and fresh spring air filled the house.This particular unit exhausted air through a vent in the roof.
the house I grew up in had such a fan, known to us as the "Attic Fan". It was controlled by an on/off switch ( standard wall switch for lighting etc). Of all the homes I went into that had such a fan, none of them had thermostats involved with the switching. There was one thing for sure tho, it could move massive amounts of air and with creative ideas in how far to open the windows, one could create zones of airflow with impressive results...
Little things like this are so under appreciated and utilized as a tool to survive climate change. So many houses get roasting hot during the day but once the ambient air has cooled enough an attic fan would be able to cool the house in minutes instead of hours with an AC or window fan since they don't seal well enough. I like the modern design that runs the outside air through a HEPA filter, would be amazing during wildfire season...
Clive, my parent's house was older also .built back in 1955, here in California. it had a whole house fan like you are planing to put in your Bungalow. theirs was large at least 5 Ft X 5 Ft. on the ceiling of the hall leading to the bedrooms. it had louvers that would open when on. back when I was a kid in the 60's, on hot summer nights, we would open a window in each bedroom, and run it all night.
I bought a couple of these modules off ebay, well, not these specifically but the one with 4 relays on board with the automotive style key fob. I soldered additional wires to the back and made it into a remote start unit for my generator. Each of the buttons have a function: The first or top button keyring down actuates a door lock module that pulls the choke out, second one runs the starter motor, the third one opens the choke and the fourth button powers down the generator. They are programmed into momentary mode so to start the engine you have to hold the starter button down, but if I was to start the generator from its operating panel it has a fairly standard automotive style starter and ignition switch where it's momentary for the starter as well. The second one I used on a sound effects board for my little theatre to currently operate a two-bell door bell and buzzer. There are two buttons for the door bell one that does a "ding" and the other a "ding-dong." One modification I had added was an old portable radio telescopic antenna to help extend the range of the one in the module itself.
Arctic fans are good. They make temperature controlled ones (with a thermistor on a bit of wire), which are very useful for DIY projects (e.g. cooling the wardrobe I have a server in, solar powered dehydrators, etc)
Regarding tinning the leads going into a terminal block, I too would often do this. However, I have recently purchased a large assortment of Chinese wire ferrules with coloured ends and a pair of crimpers. These are my new favourite method to terminate loose wires. I have an assortment of colours and sizes and use them on everything. Highly recommended!
In colder climates they use something called a HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator) which uses the exhaust air to partially heat the incoming cold air. This reduces building heat loss, while still allowing air exchange.
Nice simple solution, which is a prime candidate for home automation! Easy to set up with a wifi & RF433 combo switch setup, when the humidity is in a certain range, turn fan on or off, on at sunset off at sunrise, or high tide or when the moon is full in any combination you like. All, with retaining the clicky button to override it all.
If I was limited to only being able to subscribe to 10 people on TH-cam, you would be on that list Good Sir! You both educate and inform. You are sunshine for the brain. Thank you for the time and thought you put into each and every video. Wish I was able to shake your hand, so please accept this comment as such.
Applied as-is to PC cooling, this would be a neat way to achieve that elusive dead silence when active cooling is not required. More fan content please Clive - loved it!
Those Arctic fans are super impressive value, to be honest - great balance between noise, airflow and cost, and the 6 year warranty beats pretty much everyone on the market. Sure, there's obviously always Noctua, but then you'll pay literally three times as much per fan. And you'll get a... unique aesthetic. Using them for PCs as well as a few projects as well. :)
If you are worried about the screw terminal tension, remove the terminal block entirely. Replace it with 6 inch wires and use wire nuts. You can even solder your fan and power leads directly to the board. Making it work is what counts. Thanks, keep working.
Where I live, we call that a Whole House Fan. Ive installed several as an electrician. What you do is run the fan flow upward from the house, and the reason is 2 fold; 1, heat rises. You might see that fan spin backwards on a hot day. its hard to cool the house because the roof and attic hold heat super well. Pulling air in from the attic to the house is counterproductive unless you want to heat the house. The other reason is fires. Where we live, those passive rotary attic vents are illegal. Only positive pressure will prevent ash and ember from fires entering the attic. Unless youre trying to heat your house, that flow diagram is backwards. Cheers!
Regarding tinning the copper tips of the wires, when I studied it in the distant past, it was considered good practice to tin the very tip - the last 1-2mm after twisting the copper wires. This was done to maintain the tight twist in the copper wires. The entire length of exposed copper should not be tinned as such a connection rapidly deteriorates and becomes loose. Only the bare copper part was used to make the connection in the termination. Stranded wire is never folded over as it literally introduces stray whiskers. An old training manual stated that it the wire was a single solid core and only one wire was used in the connection then bare conductor should be folded over so the screw tightened down effectively onto two wires. This made the connection more reliable as there wasn't an issue of the single strand being forced to the side as the screw was tightened resulting in a rather secure connection even if correct torque was applied.
@4:20 It's a bad idea Clive, I have done this in the past. And I have found that the tinned copper wire 'creeps' under the pressure of a screw. So you would tighten it and years later the wire would be loose and making a bad connection. I now use wire ferrules, and they are great!
May I be the 94th person to say don't pre-solder wires, then clamp them in a terminal block. I learned way back in the 80s from a friend who became Technical Director of a mass spectrometer company in Cheshire. They finally traced a field reliability issue down to their most diligent panel builder, who solder-tinned wires during assembly. Yes solder does cold-creep. It moves away from the high pressure clamping force and the wires pull out due to the slightest force, such as being tied in a loom. Crimp on boot-lace ferrules is the way to go!
The reason that solder is best not used with screw terminals, is that solder 'flows' over time and can make the connection less reliable, the conductors flatten out and the pressure in the screw terminal loosens off. Hence the recommendations for ferrules.. Needless to say, for hobby, not critical situations, I have tinned wires to hold the bunch together.
Happened a lot to Chinese build 3D printers in the past as the heater bed and hot end are obviously high current devices. One of the 1st things I did with my previous printers was to cut the ends off and crimp ferrules on.
That said, if the tinned wires go into terminals that use spring pressure to make contact (think wago) even that isn't really an issue. Same reason car manufacturers use spring clips on hoses instead of the awfully common DIY screw clamps. The spring ones will keep pressure on it even if the hose shrinks over time
I love those EV1527 button systems. Very easy to use and no messing around with software, apps or third party cloudy services. I've used them for lots of things including remote switching of inverters.
I am a big supporter of ventilation. All year round I have some form of air exchange running. On nicer days I'll have it running full speed. On days where it's too hot or too cold outside I'll lower it but never turn it off. It's nice having the air inside fresh and oxygenated.
Nice video and howto. Regarding soldering, I used to do like you here, but got "hooked" on ferrule crimping stuff. Even for small projects like this. Never had any problems since.
On fans you have chosen well. Versatile and amazing. I have tried tons of then for pc cooling and ventilation and these came out clearly on top for the capacity to push lots of air thru the likes of radiators effectively, whilst being quiet and come with the added bonus of being rather cheap :)
Arctic has amazing fans, the P12 has a slightly annoying sound at certain RPM range but otherwise they go neck to neck with brands that are 10x more expensive. Only other fan I would recommend is the Phanteks T30 but it's overpriced, it's 5mm thicker so it does push a bit more air but around here they're 30-40€.
Regarding tinning The ends of wires going in to terminals; not sure if I'm doing it right, but what I do is strip the wire to twice the length needed for the full depth of the terminal hole, fold that in half and twist it together. The result once twisted is a twisted wire that once shoved all the way in actually includes 3mm of the wire sleeve. Then I tin the twisted wire thinly by dipping it in to liquid flux and then dabbing the tip of that wire on to the tip of a soldering iron with a blob of solder on the tip of the iron. A thin layer of solder gets drawn up the wire which prevents fraying. Any bending strain is taken up by that flexible 2mm of flex covered copper wire. This works particularly well if the flex thickness fits snuggly in the entrance of the terminal. Again, probably not the official method, but it works. Theres the added benefit of the terminal screw fixing in to the solder by creating a divot in it whilst maintaining the integral strength of the copper wire. If you take care to shove the folded tinned wire into the terminal in a way that the screw then screws down in between the parallel folded wires gives a similar fixing as wrapping wire around a screw terminal, giving extra strength and friction to the connection. Again, I could be totally wrong, but thats the way I see it and I haven't had one fail yet.
Those Arctic fans are one of my favorites. Cheap, easy to get, work really well. My go-to if I need something on a budget and just need it to work! As for the soldering wire before putting it in the terminal causing more strain - I have found that to be the case, but only on things that move a lot... For still applications it doesn't seem to make much difference
Yes i had added day / night relay to my garden lights it turns on automatically during low light n off during morning time ....n they are working well ...i was so amazed that these tiny modules can make lot of difference n so eazy to install
I use positive pressure ventilation while painting cars. just set up a little tent with a box fan and a furnace filter taped to the back of it. Blows all the dust and other particulates from landing on your paint job
Did a similar project where I needed replacement air (for oven vent hood) for positive ventilation. During replacement air, the fan is on full blast at 600 CFM, and if internal humidity is high and outside is lower, it comes on at ~50 CFM. Air is fed into the air conditioning return air ducting. I added a manometer to detect when the filter needs replacement. All controlled by Raspberry PI.
When I lived in SE USA, many older houses had whole-house fans instead of AC. They were enormous with louvres which were sucked open when the fan was manually turned on. However, they sucked from inside the house into the attic, so that you weren't pulling hot air from the attic into the house. You cracked the windows open at night to allow the cold air in. Maybe in IOM this wouldn't be a problem in summer.
I did something similar perhaps a year ago. That bathroom fan here flows about 4x more air than optimal for the size of bathroom, so I used one of these remotes as a way to disable the fan from within the shower. I did, however use the remote unit to drive a larger enclosed relay. I wasn’t about to use one of these little chinese units to switch mains.
I understood it that way, that the pressure of the screw will make the solder flow away over time (years), making it less and less tight and makes the resistance rise until it starts to become hot or even burn. But this applies only to screws, not to springy clips that put a constant pressure on the conductor (ike the wagos do). Then again simple screw terminals aren’t supposed to be used for mains wiring anyway anymore (at least here in Germany), since they become lose over time, especially in places where there’s a big temperature difference between summer and winter.
I tend to crimp a standard molex pin onto the wire, then cut the contact off so it's just the crimp sleeve left when putting bare wires like that into those screw terminals.
Regarding soldered terminations. It's not just making the conductors brittle where some flex of the wire is expected, but in certain termination applications ie screw terminals, the solder has a tendency to flow or creep under the pressure of the screw or associated pressure plate. At high currents, or mains applications this can increase the termination resistance over time and cause the connection to ultimately fail. Spring type terminators provide a constant force, so this problem is largely mitigated. Generally, I prefer shoelace ferrules in virtually all temporary terminations that need some longevity. Of course, anything permanent should be properly soldered. Nice little project where this shouldn't be a problem btw.
i do similar in my loft conversion with a custom PIV swamp cooler. the other added bonus to a PIV system which generally isnt mentioned is dust mitigation. as the only air coming in to the house is filtered, and every air leak in your house is actively pushing out dusty air also keeping outside dust from entering. the net result is a cleaner house.
george Michael! i love that! not so long ago i was playing with a sodium bulb i found. i used joining block things to attach it to the mains. one teeny wire crept in bed with it's neighbour. once i could see again it was jolly amusing. and now i have an idiom for the error that caused it. cheers.
Attic positive ventilation is often used as a remediation technique for radon, the magnitude of that problem varies wildly all over the world. So, not just musty smells, but natural (but still potentially harmful) radioactivity....
You've done quite a lot more soldering than I have so I'll defer to your knowledge, but I wanted to point out that I once read that the reason you don't tin wires before clamping them is because solder has a tendency to flow, albeit extremely slowly, when under clamping pressure and will eventually lead to a loose connection even if the wire remains intact.
The system you described is almost the opposite of what is popular here. Here, you install an attic fan, which pulls air in through the windows with enough power to make each open window feel like it has a box fan in front of it blowing in. This air is sucked into the attic and then blown out through soffit vents and roof ventilators.
Even as a HAM I use these kind of modules a lot. They are cheap and reliable. 433,92 mhz is filled with the signals, one more doesn’t really matter anymore. The Rx 480 and tx module are also vey useful in projects to switch signals. It has 4 channels and by using bcd code at least 10.
I should try something similar. I hung some 100mm collapsable ducting over my bench and put in an inline fan, but the actual flow rate is so slow it can't do much more than slowly clear the haze. Presumably more static pressure would do a much better job sucking up fumes as they're created.
Thoughts on terminating wires/folding wires. I have been in the industry pretty much since I left school in 1984. My father (electrician who served a full 5 year apprenticeship in the 1960s, so a proper sparky) would always show me to fold the single strand solid core copper T&E 2.5mm & 1.5mm cables if they were the only ones being inserted into sockets, light switches, cooker outlets, isolators etc. The theory being that the screw terminals had a greater area of conductor to make contact with and lowering the overall resistance. When I used to do terminations in car electrical installations to screw terminals, I would definitely not tin cables. I would use the double over method if there was enough room in the terminal, failing that, I would either use a spade crimp or a bootlace ferrule. These are much better in high vibration environments as well as areas subject to a lot of temperature cycling and variation (thermal expansion/contraction).
Arctic sells a PWM version of the fan as well. Combining them with am ESP32 lets you control the speed of the fan. Probably not an issue when it's in the attic, but if it's close to someones ears, that allows you to have finer grained control over the noise and pressure it creates.
I would always use a ferrule when going under screw terminals like these. Takes but a moment to apply (quicker than solder) and doesn't cause any weak spots.
If you are careful with your soldering, it shouldn't be any worse than using ferrules, and I always double over a twisted joint when it goes into one of those connectors whether it's soldered or not. Love your vids mate 👍👍
Doing a similar project, but as an extractor fan - went straight for Noctua's PPC fans as they are rated for continuous use Added benefit is then that I can use PWM to control speed and noise 😄
Our house (in the middle of our street) was built with the reverse system. It has a large fan in the attic which sucks air out of rooms prone to moisture such as the bathroom and kitchen. The fan is much bigger than yours but is wired down to a switch in the kitchen with three settings. Off is not one of those settings and I find it strange to be sucking air into the house regardless of interior and exterior moisture levels. I have a home automation connected humidity sensor which detects humidity indoors and out. I'd love to wire the fan up so that it won't run unless the interior humidity is higher than a set level and higher than the exterior level.
amazing, it took 30 yrs to add the slots for the wires, been making my own slots in the cases with a hot X-Acto blade for years. What I had to contend with was the sloppy fit tho, I do like the fitted case they now offer along with the slots...
You got me interested with the Arctic P12 fan (use those in my PC and I like them) but the remote control idea is interesting that I stayed and watched. The range of the remote control is what I'm concerned with for an application like controlling a fan in the attic. Where I'm from (South East Asia) Attics in most homes aren't insulated with fiber glass so that's not too much of a concern, but attic ventilation is used by some to get the heat out the house. Considering attics can be 40C+ I'd probably use an AC industrial box fan (the kind with the metal housing and looks a bit similar to PC fans but have a bigger motor hub) for the reliability and knowing they (fan & electronics) would survive the heat in the attic. On the topic of remote control, a while back I helped someone setup an IR remote based relay module that turns on or off anything that's plugged in. In the case of the user they use it for their stand fan. The IR part was interesting since it doesn't come with a remote and any IR remote works and just needs to be setup and memorized by the module.
Fan-tastic Clive great idea, we get drips off the waterproof roof membrane in our loft there is a vent though in the wall don’t know what’s going on there
I used an Arduino to control a house fan bringing in outside filtered air. I programmed it to be on some number of minutes per hour for freshness but, to save a bit on conditioning, if the indoor temp exceeded our "comfort" temp AND the outdoor temperature was lower than our "comfort" temp the fan was on 100%. Similar logic if the indoor temp lower than our "comfort" temp AND outdoor temp was higher than our "comfort" temp, the fan was 100% on. I quote "comfort" because the wife and I don't agreed on the "comfort" temperature. Of course, she won the battle.....but at least there is fresh air.
Last remote fan I set up used a key fob and receiver from a junkyard 1990's GM car, a vfd, and an Oriental Motor 3 phase fan. Variable speed with the vfd.
My understanding for soldering in a screw terminal -- the bare wire elastically deforms in the terminal so it springs back as thermal cycling, keeping the pressure on. The solder plastically deforms and dams the spring action, so when it thermal cycles it can end up loose. ...supposedly. I've never had a soldered screw terminal wire fail.
the thing about putting solder on the wire is that the solder is really soft (compared to copper or the terminal) ,under compression from the terminal it like to deform and just slip out eventually. and the folding the wires thing (wish i always do) , is that your never 100 percent sure wish section of the wire the terminal gripped , if it grips it exactly near the insulation then your ok , but if the connector grips the wire from the extra folded bit then the wire will be slack and also when there is a tugging force its slips easier then a non folded wire at least thats what i heard people saying
I have an HRV that does something similar. The difference is with a HRV is it has a heat exchanger built in to recover heat from inside the house and heats incoming air.
The problem with tinning wires in screw terminals is that the solder slowly starts to creep under pressure and over a time span of about 5-10 years you'll lose the clamping force. I used to tin every wire every time in my early days and I first witnessed the effect first hand when I joined speaker wiring using screw terminals and tinned the wires. After ~6 years of not being touched it sometimes wouldn't come on on low volume. Turn it up a little bit and it started playing. Then it would work again on low volume for a few days. Apparently, 1-5V are enough to cause the tiniest spark and reestablish connection. Sure enough, all screw terminals were loose. Ever since I switched to using ferrules or bare wire this hasn't been a problem any more and by now some of my contraptions have been working for over 20 years without being touched.
Tinning the wires is not only bad about breaking, but bad for oxydizing and creeping solder, too. The solder squeezes away over time and loosens the contact. During education as a electronics worker we were strictly forbidden to solder any wires befor clamping them. Nowadays Wago connectors may be an exception, but we had to use wire end ferrules only.
yup, i had a few break after i tinned them, also had them break untinned so yeah....also use those connectors you got on the fan, and those get hot above 1.5A and very hot on 3A
Built a similar system, only I used a hard wired rather than wireless remote control. Also, ours is based on a DIY Precipitron system, which (so far) has lasted a decade, and appears to work well (tested with a particle counter borrowed from my EBME colleagues!)
I always fold wires in screw terminals, especially where visibility is limited, it's the only way to be sure the screw is holding sufficient wire. Metal fatigue will be a bigger issue if pressure only ends up on a few strands.
I mostly pre-tin my stranded wire before termination I prefer it to using ferrules. I have a small solder pot and flux pot. It's just a matter of dipping first in the flux pot and then the solder pot. This is normally only reserved for tinning many premade striped wires. I think it's quicker than using ferrules.
Regarding the folklore surrounding tinning multi-stranded (flexible) prior to terminating them in terminal strips. I worked for a major British computer manufacturer from the late 70's for >20 years. They had a large number of in-house standards (Codes-of-Practice) that were applicable for either their commercial or MoD customers that covered every aspect of cabling / terminations for their computer systems. Tinning was not permitted in any termination that was compressed. Only crimped wire ferrules (locally called bootlace crimps) were specified for such terminal strips, these could be insulated or uninsulated depending on the particular application. The reason provided to me by the then head of engineering was that in-house tests had shown that the solder (lead/tin in those days), crystalized over time when under compression in a screwed termination, and eventually became loose causing failures. I have no idea if the leadless solders used these days suffers from that same crystallization failure, perhaps one of your subscribers can throw some light on the subject :)
I worked for a large computer manufacturer around the turn of the century, and we had a recall on heavy duty power cables (think the feeds to a whole rack) because the third party supplier had tinned the ends before attaching the connector.
@@boatman323 I heard of a similar recall / rectification fieldwork. Colleagues that carried out the rectification work stated that the solder had a dull appearance, similar to a dry joint, but was almost powdery where it had been compressed. Thankfully they were on standby power supplies so thankfully not energised and could be repaired in the field as there was sufficient cable to re-terminate the connections.
While I enjoy dissecting “Chinese Export” stuff, I love project videos even more - even the shorter ones.
100% Projects ftw.
All the videos are just as good as any other
Neighbor is calling an Exorcist cause his lights go on and off by themself .😂
I love that Clive's own hands are his helping hands.
I've had solder-coated wires slip out of screw terminals before, due to the high ductility of the solder. I have since stopped doing that and have switched to crimping ferrules onto bare wire instead. The ridges left on the ferrules after crimping (at least with my tool) also helps with retention.
I second this. Bootlace ferrules, while initially something that seems to make no sense, are a godsend. They keep the strands under control and held together without making the wire susceptible to breaking like solder.
It's not the solders ductility, it's because solder starts to flow over time under mechanical pressure, this takes multiple months to take effect.
Depending on the ammount of solder they fall out by themselfs or can be pulled out easily.
@@TheSwiip1aka creep
the issue with tinning wires going into screw terminals isn't just the they get brittle, it's that solder will cold flow under pressure so they will get loose over time
That cold flow thing is something I doubted for a long time. Until I had to repair a saw that my granddad put a longer cable on. Tinned ends in a screw terminal. Yes, old saws apparently had screw terminals in them to change the lead! Shortened it, put ferrules on, works great now.
So it really does happen. It only takes a LONG time. So anything permanent, especially with 100+W devices or house wiring, you should take the time. I wouldnt worry about a 12V fan test setup.
I've repaired industrial machines within the warranty period where the manufacturer has tinned wires going into a terminal block. It comes loose, the high current connection burns, sometimes other things nearby are damaged by the heat.
@@theSam91it's been a pretty common issue and genuine fire hazard in the consumer 3d printing space. It was a scarily common practice for *some nonspecific manufacturers*.
I was going to comment about this too, it is a large issue. Chinese 3D printer manufacturers used tinned wires in screw terminals for the power input of the mainboard and for connecting the heated bed and heater cartridge, loads of people ended up with those connections failing (without movement or vibration on the wire itself and it is the connection that fails not the wire getting brittle and breaking) and ending up burning the screw terminal and mainboard and sometimes starting fires. That is with 12 or 24 V but relatively high current.
The only reason chinese manufacturers did it was because tinning the wires made them easier to insert into the screw terminals and it was cheaper than using ferrules.
In general when using screw terminals or similar, if it is stranded wire you should use a ferrule, if it is solid wire then just use it directly but avoid putting bare stranded wire in the screw terminal as it can move over time and any loose strands can cause shorts, but never tin the wires because of the cold flow issue.
A possible way to test this for people that don’t believe is to set up two screw terminals with one having tinned wire in it and another with either bare or ferruled wire, tighten it as much as you normally would and then leave it, come back a while later and see if they have loosened at all. If you are able to accurately measure small resistances then measure the resistance of the connections too.
If remember correctly tinning wires fitted into screw terminals was specifically banned by the old safety standards (EN60950-1) for this very reason. Can and does cause fires.
Ferrules are the way forward with this wire like that combined with screw terminals. Well worth the time and effort. I'm currently looking in to similar fan setup due to high Co2 levels.
"High CO2" what is the issue / source? Is not the CO2 level outside the same as inside?
@@barrieshepherd7694 No, outside CO2 level is around 350ppm, but humans exhale CO2 constantly, so the level in a closed room can rise to unhealthy levels above 2000ppm, causing headaches and fatigue and eventually even suffocation. That's why it's important to ventilate rooms, especially in winter. The rise in concentration depends on the size of the room, number of people, activity level and how well the building is sealed from outside air.
For example, a single person sleeping in a 15m² room reaches a concentration of 2000ppm after about 8-10 hours. If there are 2-3 working in the same room, it only takes 2 hours to reach that level. Recommended CO2 concentration for working is below 1200ppm for best performance.
Source: I developed and tested CO2 sensors for a company in Germany.
@@barrieshepherd7694 why would the CO2 level outside be the same as inside? Humans and most other animals breathe air and convert O2 to CO2. If you have a closed box or a box without enough airflow then over time the O2 levels will drop and the CO2 levels will rise as the human or animal in the box converts the O2 to CO2. This is the reason that if you leave most animals or humans in an airtight box they will die, they will eventually use up all the oxygen so you will end up with a box with a dead human or animal with lower O2 levels and higher CO2 levels.
Modern houses need to comply to certain standards for air tightness since it affects thermal performance of the house. For thermal performance the more airtight the house is, the better, obviously this directly counters a humans need for airflow so often vents need installed.
The same can happen in badly designed houses or spaces, there isn’t enough airflow for a human to spend a lot of time there.
Edit: having too high CO2 in the air or too low O2 in the air can cause a lot of serious side effects for humans, you should look it up. There have been a lot of cases of people in home offices (generally converted basements or similar) ending up pretty unwell or with unexplained symptoms when they work in their home offices that had been due to a lack of airflow. If I remember correctly “Jeff Geerling” has a video about it happening to him.
I don't think that ferrules are even exists for these small wire diameters. If so, they are hard to handle. I think we should differentiate between high power and low power connections.
@@JoeBee999 I have small ferrules for these small wires - they are just metal sleeves and don't have the plastic skirt - and yes they are a bit fiddly and not that good with the cheaper (usually the square type) crimpers the star crimper manages with ease.
There are 2 reasons you should not solder leads that are going to get clamped or crimped. You mentioned the first, it can cause wires to become brittle in places, and your reasoning for not caring in this instance is valid. It's not going to get moved, it's not going to be in a vibrating vehicle, it should be fine. However, the other reason is why you should re-do this project:
Solder creep / fatigue. If you put solder under tension, it slowly changes shape, becomes deformed, and can come loose from the terminal. I have personally watched this happen when I used to solder my speaker wire leads that go into a spring terminal. I wondered why they kept coming loose, yeah they vibrate, but despite being an otherwise stationary object I had regular issues every few months. Then after I got a job soldering airplane parts I learned why. I quit tinning my speaker leads, and they have been fine ever since. Thankfully in my application it was just an audio signal, but in yours it's a powered connection and obviously a problem.
I second another commenter that ferrules are a good idea here, but I don't think they're 100% necessary unless you want to go the distance.
Crimp ferrules on the ends instead.
I agree, I have had lots of trouble with tinned trailer plug connections.
Agree absolutely, spot on
At work, we were taught only ever to tin the last couple of mm of any wires that connect with screw terminals. The copper compresses better than harder, fully-tinned wires would, and the solder on the end stops them fraying. Simples!
No wires to route and hide, no box for the switch. Incredibly simple and very useful. I never considered a wireless switch, which can easily be relocated. That just blew my mind. Thanks for the video.
I remember when PPV was becoming a thing in hospitals (PPV = Positive Pressure Ventilation), and became a bit of a problem with manually opened doors. The higher pressure inside the building meant it was nearly impossible to push the doors against the force of the air trying to escape to the outside atmosphere. Ultimate, sliding doors would be installed, and more laterly, we now see a resurgence of revolving doors. Not only in hospitals, but council offices and other public buildings. Some even seem to have a system of heat recovery to capture the escaping warm air, and returning it to the building.
Even our caravan has a pair of fans mounted in the roof to pressurise the interior, which is handy when the pollen count is high, because it means that even on holiday you can have a little refuge against hay fever.
I've heard a lot of good comments on pressurised air ventilation systems for various applications.
I like the idea of remote control for the fan(s).👍
Most commercial buildings are required to have all exit doors open outward. Are you misremembering the problem? The problem would be that they won’t close, not that they’re difficult to open.
@@NatesRandomVideo Not all.... The hospital in question was "St James" in Leeds, and the doors opened inward. Even to this day, at the Coronary Care Unit at York Hospital, the doors open inward - against the internal pressure.
Our local council went for powered sliding doors on its buildings. St James' went for sliding doors too. York hospital opted for revolving doors on its main entrance - interesting though, all of its emergency exits open outward, as do the wheelchair entrances.
Pee pee vagoo
I was taught to never fold wires or tin them. That was 40 years ago and metal fatigue is the only reason I have ever been given. I still have a lead-acid charger I built for a 3 AH batteries for something I can't even remember any more. The wires were folded and it still works about 40 years later.
Yes. I usually put a dab of hot-melt on the wire to prevent vibration from moving the wire near the terminal. It was something I noticed in some military surplus gear, and thought it was a good idea. I have about 110 homemade projects in service and not a single failure over nearly 10 years.
I studied industrial electronics and have a wide experience with electrical installations and electronics in many fields. I have found from a few sources that the reason to not solder wire ends that go into screw terminals is that solder can easily deform and will not spring back. As thermal expansion and other events moves the wire ends over the years the solder compresses and the connection becomes loose. This has been cited as a fairly common cause for fires in early electrical installations.
@@Ghlargh. Yes - exactly this. Thermal cycling was what was explained to me years ago.
Ah yes, Positive Input Ventilation. Absolutely the first thing I thought of.
Positive ventilation has two positive benefits. 1) Helping to keep stall dormant air to a minimum. 2) In the case of a fire/smoke condition in a room per say, positive air can actually reduce/prevent such fire/smoke getting into hallways and other rooms. On the other hand, depending on building layout, positive air supply can also exacerbate a fire
@lisab3396
But negates the function of the smoke detector.
Wut? Is PIV a euphemism of some sort?? Captain?
If PIV and 'sex' are equivalent to you, I'm so sorry
Depending on who's talking, sex might not involve either a penis or vagina. Or it might involve them, but not with penetration. In spaces where sex as a concept is discussed broadly, PIV is the preferred shorthand for "the old in and out."
I remember the 70's when the bean counters and the reg makers pushed aluminum and copper plated aluminum for house wiring. I also remember the house fires and the other nonsense when the screw joints corroded or came loose.
Are you sure you really remember these fires? Humans make terrible witnesses and start imagining things happening in their lives that never really happened, is really common phenomenon.
Thank goodness that didn't happen in Europe!
And had to be larger gauge. Of course we still use aluminum wire for certain applications.
I'm anxious to see you use ferrules on stranded wires going into screw terminals. I used them a lot industrially and came to like them.
I do use them on industrial stuff.
433MHz is in the 70cm ham radio band in the UK, and often used for repeater outputs. The remotes are legal, using a standard called LPD433, up to 10mW of transmission power unlicensed. I wouldn't worry about it interfering with ham operations, but if there's a repeater nearby it could easily interfere with this device instead. The other common frequency (315MHz) can also have problems near airports.
But unless you're right up on a more powerful user of the frequency, the attenuation just from your walls and grounded power cables is likely to be plenty. If you do run into problems, you could put the receiver in a grounded metal box with one open side pointed towards the remote. You can get fancier with antennas, but blocking out most of the world is often good enough.
There is a host of requirements the transmitter has to fulfill to be compliant with being license-exempt to use 433.920 MHz. One of which is the TX on/off cycle time and RF output. For the TX to be 10 mw ERP the TX on duty cycle can NOT be greater than 10%, for 1mw ERP, the TX on duty cycle can be up to 100% duty cycle. Note that this is RF output Effective Radiated Power (ERP) which means RF output multiplied by antenna gain. UK Ofcom datasheet on this can be found at - www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0028/84970/ir-2030.pdf
Can always tell an experienced tech when they can hold something and feed the solder in with fingers on that same hand, not easy to do without practice.
I'm always amazed that people don't understand how ventilation works ! Many people use 'extractor' fans but don't realise that there needs to be some way for the air to get in before it can be forced out and they complain that their house is still mouldy !
Positive pressure relies on there being small air gaps around the house but a lot of people try to hermetically seal their houses to prevent heat escaping and cold draughts but try to use extractor fans to remove excess humidity.
It's one of those concepts that seem extremely simple when you already know about it but might not think about if you don't really analyse the problem, I learned about positive pressure when building PCs but never had a reason to think about it before. Concepts like Bernoulli's principle etc are really simple and logical when you sit down and think, I guess the problem is most people are so busy with their lives they just look for quick solutions and want to be done with it 5 minutes ago.
Crimped ferrule terminals over soldering the conductor ends if using a screw terminal block. But, on a device that will remain mounted in a fixed position with no/minor vibration present, if I didn’t have ferrules, then I’d probably solder the conductor ends too. Actually, if the truth be told, I’d probably yield to doing whatever I learned from you. From SC USA, thanks for all of the great content!
Those Arctic Cooling P12 fans are fantastic, been using them for years to vent/cool my computers. PPV is also a concept in desktop and server computers to keep them ventilated for cooling while also ensuring dust is blown out of the computer rather than being sucked in due to a negative internal case pressure. Interesting project, thanks for sharing this.
Yup. And if you need more airflow, there's the "Max" versions of the same fans with higher top speed. Been using these P12 and P14 fans in all of my rigs and apart from that one speed where the blades start resonating/howling, they're _really_ good. especially for the dirt cheap price
What a coincidink, as yesterday (they've been sitting on my desk for 3 months) I fitted 3 of these to the power switches on my PCs! They're the 5VDC jobbies, and they're powered from the always-on USB ports, so I can now power them up remotely using a slim 4-key fob, remote connect via my main PC, and then shut them down when I'm done.
The transmit/receive distance is great; it goes through walls & ceilings with no problem. 👍
Those fans are surprising good at moving a lot of air. I have 2 of the exact same in my own home application. I have a "Server + comms kit" in a small cupboard which happens to be under the bathroom. I use 2 of these fans to extract the hot air and send it straight up to the bathroom floor. Which has the effect of mildly heating the marble bathroom floor. Its so good that i had to turn the radiator off in the bathroom as the tiles stay at 19-20c all year around.
In the Fire Life Safety world, PIV stands for Post Indicator Valve. They're used to open and close the water supply to the sprinkler system and show whether the valve is open or shut.
Neat idea, and should help a bit. The "proper" way of doing this would be an Energy Recovery Ventilator but that's usually for air tight buildings that are either new construction or retrofits that are correctly sealed.
Thanks Clive. While I love your tear down videos it’s the hacks and project videos I enjoy most.
I use these opto coupled relays on likes of e bikes where there are 5v lines like on the brake switches , to signal controller to cut power to motor when brakes are activated ,I can wire up brake lights. Or in other instances ,where the supplied headlight runs on 6v and I wish to fit say a 12v or 48v headlight unit.
So since these relays can handle 220v I can power items directly off the bikes battery but use the original switches at lower voltage to trigger the relays.
Whole hose fans are incredibly useful, had a house with a large commercial unit, Spring time was great, pop open a few windows, turn on the fan and fresh spring air filled the house.This particular unit exhausted air through a vent in the roof.
We have one of these. It's about 3' diameter and it can REALLY move some wind in the house. We have a tri-level townhouse.
the house I grew up in had such a fan, known to us as the "Attic Fan". It was controlled by an on/off switch ( standard wall switch for lighting etc). Of all the homes I went into that had such a fan, none of them had thermostats involved with the switching. There was one thing for sure tho, it could move massive amounts of air and with creative ideas in how far to open the windows, one could create zones of airflow with impressive results...
Little things like this are so under appreciated and utilized as a tool to survive climate change. So many houses get roasting hot during the day but once the ambient air has cooled enough an attic fan would be able to cool the house in minutes instead of hours with an AC or window fan since they don't seal well enough. I like the modern design that runs the outside air through a HEPA filter, would be amazing during wildfire season...
~ 🇺🇸, common in the US, but not here 🇬🇧
Clive, my parent's house was older also .built back in 1955, here in California. it had a whole house
fan like you are planing to put in your Bungalow. theirs was large at least 5 Ft X 5 Ft. on the ceiling
of the hall leading to the bedrooms. it had louvers that would open when on. back when I was a kid
in the 60's, on hot summer nights, we would open a window in each bedroom, and run it all night.
I bought a couple of these modules off ebay, well, not these specifically but the one with 4 relays on board with the automotive style key fob. I soldered additional wires to the back and made it into a remote start unit for my generator. Each of the buttons have a function: The first or top button keyring down actuates a door lock module that pulls the choke out, second one runs the starter motor, the third one opens the choke and the fourth button powers down the generator. They are programmed into momentary mode so to start the engine you have to hold the starter button down, but if I was to start the generator from its operating panel it has a fairly standard automotive style starter and ignition switch where it's momentary for the starter as well.
The second one I used on a sound effects board for my little theatre to currently operate a two-bell door bell and buzzer. There are two buttons for the door bell one that does a "ding" and the other a "ding-dong." One modification I had added was an old portable radio telescopic antenna to help extend the range of the one in the module itself.
Arctic fans are good. They make temperature controlled ones (with a thermistor on a bit of wire), which are very useful for DIY projects (e.g. cooling the wardrobe I have a server in, solar powered dehydrators, etc)
Regarding tinning the leads going into a terminal block, I too would often do this. However, I have recently purchased a large assortment of Chinese wire ferrules with coloured ends and a pair of crimpers. These are my new favourite method to terminate loose wires. I have an assortment of colours and sizes and use them on everything. Highly recommended!
In colder climates they use something called a HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilator) which uses the exhaust air to partially heat the incoming cold air. This reduces building heat loss, while still allowing air exchange.
Nice simple solution, which is a prime candidate for home automation! Easy to set up with a wifi & RF433 combo switch setup, when the humidity is in a certain range, turn fan on or off, on at sunset off at sunrise, or high tide or when the moon is full in any combination you like. All, with retaining the clicky button to override it all.
If I was limited to only being able to subscribe to 10 people on TH-cam, you would be on that list Good Sir! You both educate and inform. You are sunshine for the brain. Thank you for the time and thought you put into each and every video. Wish I was able to shake your hand, so please accept this comment as such.
Applied as-is to PC cooling, this would be a neat way to achieve that elusive dead silence when active cooling is not required. More fan content please Clive - loved it!
Those Arctic fans are super impressive value, to be honest - great balance between noise, airflow and cost, and the 6 year warranty beats pretty much everyone on the market. Sure, there's obviously always Noctua, but then you'll pay literally three times as much per fan. And you'll get a... unique aesthetic.
Using them for PCs as well as a few projects as well. :)
If you are worried about the screw terminal tension, remove the terminal block entirely. Replace it with 6 inch wires and use wire nuts. You can even solder your fan and power leads directly to the board. Making it work is what counts. Thanks, keep working.
Where I live, we call that a Whole House Fan. Ive installed several as an electrician. What you do is run the fan flow upward from the house, and the reason is 2 fold; 1, heat rises. You might see that fan spin backwards on a hot day. its hard to cool the house because the roof and attic hold heat super well. Pulling air in from the attic to the house is counterproductive unless you want to heat the house. The other reason is fires. Where we live, those passive rotary attic vents are illegal. Only positive pressure will prevent ash and ember from fires entering the attic. Unless youre trying to heat your house, that flow diagram is backwards. Cheers!
Regarding tinning the copper tips of the wires, when I studied it in the distant past, it was considered good practice to tin the very tip - the last 1-2mm after twisting the copper wires. This was done to maintain the tight twist in the copper wires. The entire length of exposed copper should not be tinned as such a connection rapidly deteriorates and becomes loose. Only the bare copper part was used to make the connection in the termination. Stranded wire is never folded over as it literally introduces stray whiskers.
An old training manual stated that it the wire was a single solid core and only one wire was used in the connection then bare conductor should be folded over so the screw tightened down effectively onto two wires. This made the connection more reliable as there wasn't an issue of the single strand being forced to the side as the screw was tightened resulting in a rather secure connection even if correct torque was applied.
@4:20 It's a bad idea Clive, I have done this in the past. And I have found that the tinned copper wire 'creeps' under the pressure of a screw. So you would tighten it and years later the wire would be loose and making a bad connection. I now use wire ferrules, and they are great!
May I be the 94th person to say don't pre-solder wires, then clamp them in a terminal block. I learned way back in the 80s from a friend who became Technical Director of a mass spectrometer company in Cheshire. They finally traced a field reliability issue down to their most diligent panel builder, who solder-tinned wires during assembly. Yes solder does cold-creep. It moves away from the high pressure clamping force and the wires pull out due to the slightest force, such as being tied in a loom. Crimp on boot-lace ferrules is the way to go!
The reason that solder is best not used with screw terminals, is that solder 'flows' over time and can make the connection less reliable, the conductors flatten out and the pressure in the screw terminal loosens off. Hence the recommendations for ferrules.. Needless to say, for hobby, not critical situations, I have tinned wires to hold the bunch together.
Happened a lot to Chinese build 3D printers in the past as the heater bed and hot end are obviously high current devices. One of the 1st things I did with my previous printers was to cut the ends off and crimp ferrules on.
That said, if the tinned wires go into terminals that use spring pressure to make contact (think wago) even that isn't really an issue. Same reason car manufacturers use spring clips on hoses instead of the awfully common DIY screw clamps. The spring ones will keep pressure on it even if the hose shrinks over time
I love those EV1527 button systems. Very easy to use and no messing around with software, apps or third party cloudy services. I've used them for lots of things including remote switching of inverters.
I am a big supporter of ventilation. All year round I have some form of air exchange running. On nicer days I'll have it running full speed. On days where it's too hot or too cold outside I'll lower it but never turn it off. It's nice having the air inside fresh and oxygenated.
Nice video and howto.
Regarding soldering, I used to do like you here, but got "hooked" on ferrule crimping stuff. Even for small projects like this. Never had any problems since.
On fans you have chosen well. Versatile and amazing. I have tried tons of then for pc cooling and ventilation and these came out clearly on top for the capacity to push lots of air thru the likes of radiators effectively, whilst being quiet and come with the added bonus of being rather cheap :)
Arctic has amazing fans, the P12 has a slightly annoying sound at certain RPM range but otherwise they go neck to neck with brands that are 10x more expensive. Only other fan I would recommend is the Phanteks T30 but it's overpriced, it's 5mm thicker so it does push a bit more air but around here they're 30-40€.
Regarding tinning The ends of wires going in to terminals; not sure if I'm doing it right, but what I do is strip the wire to twice the length needed for the full depth of the terminal hole, fold that in half and twist it together. The result once twisted is a twisted wire that once shoved all the way in actually includes 3mm of the wire sleeve. Then I tin the twisted wire thinly by dipping it in to liquid flux and then dabbing the tip of that wire on to the tip of a soldering iron with a blob of solder on the tip of the iron. A thin layer of solder gets drawn up the wire which prevents fraying. Any bending strain is taken up by that flexible 2mm of flex covered copper wire. This works particularly well if the flex thickness fits snuggly in the entrance of the terminal. Again, probably not the official method, but it works. Theres the added benefit of the terminal screw fixing in to the solder by creating a divot in it whilst maintaining the integral strength of the copper wire. If you take care to shove the folded tinned wire into the terminal in a way that the screw then screws down in between the parallel folded wires gives a similar fixing as wrapping wire around a screw terminal, giving extra strength and friction to the connection. Again, I could be totally wrong, but thats the way I see it and I haven't had one fail yet.
Those Arctic fans are one of my favorites. Cheap, easy to get, work really well. My go-to if I need something on a budget and just need it to work!
As for the soldering wire before putting it in the terminal causing more strain - I have found that to be the case, but only on things that move a lot... For still applications it doesn't seem to make much difference
Yes i had added day / night relay to my garden lights it turns on automatically during low light n off during morning time ....n they are working well ...i was so amazed that these tiny modules can make lot of difference n so eazy to install
I use positive pressure ventilation while painting cars. just set up a little tent with a box fan and a furnace filter taped to the back of it. Blows all the dust and other particulates from landing on your paint job
Did a similar project where I needed replacement air (for oven vent hood) for positive ventilation. During replacement air, the fan is on full blast at 600 CFM, and if internal humidity is high and outside is lower, it comes on at ~50 CFM. Air is fed into the air conditioning return air ducting. I added a manometer to detect when the filter needs replacement. All controlled by Raspberry PI.
When I lived in SE USA, many older houses had whole-house fans instead of AC. They were enormous with louvres which were sucked open when the fan was manually turned on.
However, they sucked from inside the house into the attic, so that you weren't pulling hot air from the attic into the house. You cracked the windows open at night to allow the cold air in.
Maybe in IOM this wouldn't be a problem in summer.
This project is immediately going to upgrade my cats litterbox.
I did something similar perhaps a year ago. That bathroom fan here flows about 4x more air than optimal for the size of bathroom, so I used one of these remotes as a way to disable the fan from within the shower.
I did, however use the remote unit to drive a larger enclosed relay. I wasn’t about to use one of these little chinese units to switch mains.
I understood it that way, that the pressure of the screw will make the solder flow away over time (years), making it less and less tight and makes the resistance rise until it starts to become hot or even burn.
But this applies only to screws, not to springy clips that put a constant pressure on the conductor (ike the wagos do).
Then again simple screw terminals aren’t supposed to be used for mains wiring anyway anymore (at least here in Germany), since they become lose over time, especially in places where there’s a big temperature difference between summer and winter.
Love this project video! I will look into the relay module you talked about, seems interesting
I tend to crimp a standard molex pin onto the wire, then cut the contact off so it's just the crimp sleeve left when putting bare wires like that into those screw terminals.
Regarding soldered terminations. It's not just making the conductors brittle where some flex of the wire is expected, but in certain termination applications ie screw terminals, the solder has a tendency to flow or creep under the pressure of the screw or associated pressure plate. At high currents, or mains applications this can increase the termination resistance over time and cause the connection to ultimately fail. Spring type terminators provide a constant force, so this problem is largely mitigated.
Generally, I prefer shoelace ferrules in virtually all temporary terminations that need some longevity. Of course, anything permanent should be properly soldered.
Nice little project where this shouldn't be a problem btw.
That's a awesome idea and project with a computer fan with a remote button control.
The RC module is very useful. I'm using one as a DIY mailbox alert. I'm using a fan for PIV system for our wood stove.
Very interesting little project. Great informative commentary as always!
Love the project vids, very satisfying to watch how effortlessly you solder too lol
i do similar in my loft conversion with a custom PIV swamp cooler.
the other added bonus to a PIV system which generally isnt mentioned is dust mitigation.
as the only air coming in to the house is filtered, and every air leak in your house is actively pushing out dusty air also keeping outside dust from entering.
the net result is a cleaner house.
george Michael! i love that! not so long ago i was playing with a sodium bulb i found. i used joining block things to attach it to the mains. one teeny wire crept in bed with it's neighbour. once i could see again it was jolly amusing. and now i have an idiom for the error that caused it. cheers.
I've love the combination of Clive Rants and Projects.
Super cool. Thanks Big Clive! I think I'll make one of these for my basement.
Attic positive ventilation is often used as a remediation technique for radon, the magnitude of that problem varies wildly all over the world. So, not just musty smells, but natural (but still potentially harmful) radioactivity....
You've done quite a lot more soldering than I have so I'll defer to your knowledge, but I wanted to point out that I once read that the reason you don't tin wires before clamping them is because solder has a tendency to flow, albeit extremely slowly, when under clamping pressure and will eventually lead to a loose connection even if the wire remains intact.
These are quite useful controllers.
I tin and.or fold as needs must... never had a problem either way.
Thanks as always.
The system you described is almost the opposite of what is popular here. Here, you install an attic fan, which pulls air in through the windows with enough power to make each open window feel like it has a box fan in front of it blowing in. This air is sucked into the attic and then blown out through soffit vents and roof ventilators.
I've used those arctic P12's in my PC and their F12's in other PC's. Great fans
Even as a HAM I use these kind of modules a lot. They are cheap and reliable. 433,92 mhz is filled with the signals, one more doesn’t really matter anymore. The Rx 480 and tx module are also vey useful in projects to switch signals. It has 4 channels and by using bcd code at least 10.
I used that exact fan in a diy solder fume extractor and it works a treat. I’ve got it powered by an 18650 being boosted up to 12v.
I should try something similar. I hung some 100mm collapsable ducting over my bench and put in an inline fan, but the actual flow rate is so slow it can't do much more than slowly clear the haze. Presumably more static pressure would do a much better job sucking up fumes as they're created.
Thoughts on terminating wires/folding wires. I have been in the industry pretty much since I left school in 1984. My father (electrician who served a full 5 year apprenticeship in the 1960s, so a proper sparky) would always show me to fold the single strand solid core copper T&E 2.5mm & 1.5mm cables if they were the only ones being inserted into sockets, light switches, cooker outlets, isolators etc. The theory being that the screw terminals had a greater area of conductor to make contact with and lowering the overall resistance.
When I used to do terminations in car electrical installations to screw terminals, I would definitely not tin cables. I would use the double over method if there was enough room in the terminal, failing that, I would either use a spade crimp or a bootlace ferrule. These are much better in high vibration environments as well as areas subject to a lot of temperature cycling and variation (thermal expansion/contraction).
Yeah. I fold T&E ends to fill terminals. Much more solid contact area.
Arctic sells a PWM version of the fan as well. Combining them with am ESP32 lets you control the speed of the fan. Probably not an issue when it's in the attic, but if it's close to someones ears, that allows you to have finer grained control over the noise and pressure it creates.
I'm surprised you don't have things like this running with home assistant, it's something I need to dig into for things around my house.
I like to keep things as simple as possible.
Seems like the perfect job for SonOff Basic... Control by phone app, timer, schedule etc...
I would always use a ferrule when going under screw terminals like these. Takes but a moment to apply (quicker than solder) and doesn't cause any weak spots.
If you are careful with your soldering, it shouldn't be any worse than using ferrules, and I always double over a twisted joint when it goes into one of those connectors whether it's soldered or not. Love your vids mate 👍👍
Doing a similar project, but as an extractor fan - went straight for Noctua's PPC fans as they are rated for continuous use
Added benefit is then that I can use PWM to control speed and noise 😄
Our house (in the middle of our street) was built with the reverse system. It has a large fan in the attic which sucks air out of rooms prone to moisture such as the bathroom and kitchen. The fan is much bigger than yours but is wired down to a switch in the kitchen with three settings. Off is not one of those settings and I find it strange to be sucking air into the house regardless of interior and exterior moisture levels. I have a home automation connected humidity sensor which detects humidity indoors and out. I'd love to wire the fan up so that it won't run unless the interior humidity is higher than a set level and higher than the exterior level.
amazing, it took 30 yrs to add the slots for the wires, been making my own slots in the cases with a hot X-Acto blade for years. What I had to contend with was the sloppy fit tho, I do like the fitted case they now offer along with the slots...
You got me interested with the Arctic P12 fan (use those in my PC and I like them) but the remote control idea is interesting that I stayed and watched.
The range of the remote control is what I'm concerned with for an application like controlling a fan in the attic.
Where I'm from (South East Asia) Attics in most homes aren't insulated with fiber glass so that's not too much of a concern, but attic ventilation is used by some to get the heat out the house. Considering attics can be 40C+ I'd probably use an AC industrial box fan (the kind with the metal housing and looks a bit similar to PC fans but have a bigger motor hub) for the reliability and knowing they (fan & electronics) would survive the heat in the attic.
On the topic of remote control, a while back I helped someone setup an IR remote based relay module that turns on or off anything that's plugged in. In the case of the user they use it for their stand fan. The IR part was interesting since it doesn't come with a remote and any IR remote works and just needs to be setup and memorized by the module.
Fan-tastic Clive great idea, we get drips off the waterproof roof membrane in our loft there is a vent though in the wall don’t know what’s going on there
I used an Arduino to control a house fan bringing in outside filtered air. I programmed it to be on some number of minutes per hour for freshness but, to save a bit on conditioning, if the indoor temp exceeded our "comfort" temp AND the outdoor temperature was lower than our "comfort" temp the fan was on 100%. Similar logic if the indoor temp lower than our "comfort" temp AND outdoor temp was higher than our "comfort" temp, the fan was 100% on. I quote "comfort" because the wife and I don't agreed on the "comfort" temperature. Of course, she won the battle.....but at least there is fresh air.
I enjoy your "rants" maybe because I agree. thanks again Clive
Last remote fan I set up used a key fob and receiver from a junkyard 1990's GM car, a vfd, and an Oriental Motor 3 phase fan.
Variable speed with the vfd.
US Military spec is to tin the end of the strands, but leave an untinned area outside the insulation to avoid breaking.
Handy little device, I just might find a need for a few of those. Thanks Clive.
Very nice video. I enjoy these little projects a lot.
More please when you've tested it - especially the hepa filter.
My understanding for soldering in a screw terminal -- the bare wire elastically deforms in the terminal so it springs back as thermal cycling, keeping the pressure on. The solder plastically deforms and dams the spring action, so when it thermal cycles it can end up loose.
...supposedly. I've never had a soldered screw terminal wire fail.
the thing about putting solder on the wire is that the solder is really soft (compared to copper or the terminal) ,under compression from the terminal it like to deform and just slip out eventually.
and the folding the wires thing (wish i always do) , is that your never 100 percent sure wish section of the wire the terminal gripped , if it grips it exactly near the insulation then your ok , but if the connector grips the wire from the extra folded bit then the wire will be slack and also when there is a tugging force its slips easier then a non folded wire
at least thats what i heard people saying
I have an HRV that does something similar. The difference is with a HRV is it has a heat exchanger built in to recover heat from inside the house and heats incoming air.
The problem with tinning wires in screw terminals is that the solder slowly starts to creep under pressure and over a time span of about 5-10 years you'll lose the clamping force.
I used to tin every wire every time in my early days and I first witnessed the effect first hand when I joined speaker wiring using screw terminals and tinned the wires. After ~6 years of not being touched it sometimes wouldn't come on on low volume. Turn it up a little bit and it started playing. Then it would work again on low volume for a few days. Apparently, 1-5V are enough to cause the tiniest spark and reestablish connection. Sure enough, all screw terminals were loose. Ever since I switched to using ferrules or bare wire this hasn't been a problem any more and by now some of my contraptions have been working for over 20 years without being touched.
Tinning the wires is not only bad about breaking, but bad for oxydizing and creeping solder, too. The solder squeezes away over time and loosens the contact. During education as a electronics worker we were strictly forbidden to solder any wires befor clamping them. Nowadays Wago connectors may be an exception, but we had to use wire end ferrules only.
Good to see you posting projects again.
yup, i had a few break after i tinned them, also had them break untinned so yeah....also use those connectors you got on the fan, and those get hot above 1.5A and very hot on 3A
Built a similar system, only I used a hard wired rather than wireless remote control. Also, ours is based on a DIY Precipitron system, which (so far) has lasted a decade, and appears to work well (tested with a particle counter borrowed from my EBME colleagues!)
I always fold wires in screw terminals, especially where visibility is limited, it's the only way to be sure the screw is holding sufficient wire. Metal fatigue will be a bigger issue if pressure only ends up on a few strands.
I mostly pre-tin my stranded wire before termination I prefer it to using ferrules. I have a small solder pot and flux pot. It's just a matter of dipping first in the flux pot and then the solder pot. This is normally only reserved for tinning many premade striped wires. I think it's quicker than using ferrules.
Regarding the folklore surrounding tinning multi-stranded (flexible) prior to terminating them in terminal strips. I worked for a major British computer manufacturer from the late 70's for >20 years. They had a large number of in-house standards (Codes-of-Practice) that were applicable for either their commercial or MoD customers that covered every aspect of cabling / terminations for their computer systems. Tinning was not permitted in any termination that was compressed. Only crimped wire ferrules (locally called bootlace crimps) were specified for such terminal strips, these could be insulated or uninsulated depending on the particular application. The reason provided to me by the then head of engineering was that in-house tests had shown that the solder (lead/tin in those days), crystalized over time when under compression in a screwed termination, and eventually became loose causing failures. I have no idea if the leadless solders used these days suffers from that same crystallization failure, perhaps one of your subscribers can throw some light on the subject :)
I worked for a large computer manufacturer around the turn of the century, and we had a recall on heavy duty power cables (think the feeds to a whole rack) because the third party supplier had tinned the ends before attaching the connector.
@@boatman323 I heard of a similar recall / rectification fieldwork. Colleagues that carried out the rectification work stated that the solder had a dull appearance, similar to a dry joint, but was almost powdery where it had been compressed. Thankfully they were on standby power supplies so thankfully not energised and could be repaired in the field as there was sufficient cable to re-terminate the connections.