John you soon get the hang of it, the number of times i have burnt the tip of my tong though when soldering it unreal, how the fcuk do i do that you ask? well the solder bends sometimes as you soldering, so you grip the end with your teeth and then pull it straight, problem is every now and then its still hot and the tong just don't learn, rather like when tooth ache eases off till its prodded again with the tong.
@@chrispartosbro4555 LOL. Kind of like the triple dog dare and getting your tong stuck to the flag pole ! I’d burn my fingers tying to hold every thing That’s why I have a old pair of extra hands that radio shack sold years ago I miss that store !
I think 99.9% of the faulty circuits I've repaired over nearly 30 years are either dry or puffy electrolytic capacitors. But I've seen other stuff like burned resistors, exploded varistors and such, but they're mostly symptoms of a defective electrolytic capacitor in the same circuit.
Thanks to Clive’s videos I was able to diagnose and cheaply repair an expensive wine cooler cabinet. It turned out to be a surface mounted fuse and a varistor. My best guess is that they were both blown during a lightning storm. Thanks Clive!
Wow, just a day after this video I noticed my vacuum cleaner struggling. I opened it up, it had a similar circuit. I changed the filtering capacitor and it now works like when it was new! Thank you for those videos they are awesome!!!
i've seen a few fart extractors that.. have melted. The motor bearings dry, becomes a heater, and slowly the entire "engine" block melts through the housing and hits you on the head.
🤭😯 - never seen that happen, normally these would make a hideous noise before the bearings have failed and the performance to degrade, and did you see it starting to ooze out the ceiling 😬
I have never heard a bathroom vent fan referred to as a "fart extractor" before. I love it. In the US, it's very often a separate switch, although sometimes it's tied to the lights and shuts off at the same time they do. It's better to have a separate switch because you really don't want the damn thing running all the time when the lights are on. It's extra noise pollution, and it sucks the air conditioning out of the house.
And I have heard that the 🇺🇸 does things far superior than the 🇬🇧 that founded your country ~ your “bathroom” extractor fans have additional “deluxe” functions; lights, night light, heater fan, infrared lamps, and some can now play music and be controlled with a smartphone
12:37 'It's not Ideal". That's my line! I use that all the time! Do I own the term, no. But I use that phrase almost every day, for example. "How is the weather for painting outside today?" "It's not Ideal". I'm soo glad I found this channel!
We had a old Vortice one that was relatively old (probably from the 80's or 90's, no idea) I can confirm, this thing ran loud as hell. Unlike most homes, it was on its own power switch (although we would seldom use it), not tied to the lights. We ended up replacing it with a variable speed unit (the fan's speed varies with the amount of humidity in the room), so now we leave it turned on all the time. In normal circumstances it spins at a relatively low speed and quietly but when someone takes a shower, the fan definitely starts speeding up at full tilt and making a whole cacophony in the process (LOL). I still kept it in my scrap box, along with a newer, smaller Vortice (that is more barebones than the older one, the older one had small shutters on the front that would open when power was applied, the smaller one doesn't) that I have no idea if it works or not, but given how small it is, I can only imagine it makes a hell of a racket too.
Clive, you have a way with words. I’m really enjoying and learning from these videos. Who would have known whats inside all those electronics. You should do more MRE reviews because people really enjoy watching those. 👍⭐️
In the USA, we have two separate switches, one for the light and one for the fan. This makes it possible to turn the light on and brush your teeth without the noisy fan running. On the downside, you must either turn off the fan when you leave the restroom or you must come back later and turn it off.
Yes we have those too, but in hotels and rental properties you don't want the occupants to have showers without turning on the fan, otherwise the humidity will eventually cause mould on the ceiling. That's why you'll see certain properties where the fan and light are on the same switch, so the tenant is forced to use the fan when showering.
I also have identical fans to those,4 actually,. Due to be fact that both my daughter's have failed to grasp the fact that you can turn off lights as well as on,those fitted in the toilets nearest their rooms have been on almost continually for about 4 years now including a continual 2 week stint for one in 2019. I was initially relying on the lie that they would explode if left on too long in an effort to get them to switch off lights,sort of hoping one would pack up and puff out a bit of smoke to prove a point,it didn't work and they have been faultless despite this. I have since given up asking!😄
@@areyouundoingthatorwhat9181i feel your pain, sounds like our house, i swear if they knew the oven had a light in that would be on, we on 3 levels, the 2 in question are in the middle with bathroom downstairs, hey will leave the bed room (1 light on) take 1 side step left to turn on the upper stairs lights on (2 more lights on), then take two steps right, go round the corner and turn the lower stairs light on (1 more), now they get to the bottom and turn on the living room lights from the stairs without entering the room (3 spots and a wall light), then enter the kitchen and press both switches, (2 x 3 spots and a 8 feet tube), are you adding these up? now we pass the fridge and cooker leaving these lights alone,!we then enter the passage and again press both switches, (3 spots and both that was 500 Watt outside lights but now led's) then enter the bathroom and turn on the the 6 feet tube, o yeah and they never close doors unless slamming, they turn on a total of 22 lights out of a possible 26 as the fridge gets a visit on the return trip (26 with fridge n cooker lol), all while there face is lit up with a friggin mobile phone.i swear i will fit them timer switches one day you get in rented shared stairwells where you have to press then race to the next switch while the light is still on.
I used to think that bathroom fans were for fresh air, and most people turn them on for that reason. On review of electrical code books, these are mandated to reduce humidity and control mold. You get the additional side benefit of dry towels.
@@BrianG61UK No, you're talking about a rener regulator circuit, I was talking about the high wattage resistor connected directly to the AC line, it's for inrush limiting, unless I failed to inspect the schematic carefully. I've put together many of these transformerless supplies over the years.
@@electronicsNmore No it's not just an inrush limiter. It needs to be there even once everything is up to normal running voltage or there would be an explosion. It is not just limiting the current while the capacitors charge up when first connected to power. The initial surge while the capacitors charge is barely more than the normal running current in this circuit because the capacitors only charge to 15V and mains voltage is 240V.
Thanks Clive! This circuit is in older Manrose MF100t fans. In my case the timer stopped working and the 470uf 16v capacitor had slightly bulged. Replaced with a Panasonic 470uf 25v (given newer Mf100t fans use 25v not 16v) and the timer was back 👍 There is enough room to fit the larger 25v capacitor away from the hot resistor in the casing.
I hadn't watched until the end but i'd of gone with the fault diagnosis of.. "Pinkeye Particle Build Up Within the Fan Bearing Causing Friction During Start." Lol. Btw Clive, I started into the electronics hobby/repair trade with the purchasing of some Jukebox timers and learned how to wire the microswitch contacts from my Dad. I then made my own disco lights at the ripe old age of 12. Much learned, mostly self taught in the hobby and T.V. Repair trade. I also had a stint as a "Gaff Lad" just before I broke into the electronics repair side proper. Love the content. Seeing the 4001 triggered nostalgia.
Those M-Testers are brilliant. I wouldn't trust them for accurate, but it's impressive they can test so many different components AND VALUES using just a handful of digital IO pins. BTW it's some open source design that everyone rips off of, everyone has a different version with different component support
This bloke is sooo annoyingly clever, but you just can't resist his videos. Another great repair. I used a lot of them in line duct fans, Manrose in the late 80s then lots of cheap copies appeared at different wholesalers. Once again my fine fellow, I tip my cap to your knowledge 😁😁👍
If you go further back from the 80s ~ you would find Vent-Axia, Xpelair, and other [now commercial/vintage] fan company’s promoting their fans for use in domestic environments, only when the cooker-hood was invented in the 70s that smaller 100/150mm ductwork and external vents were made for them and then 🌟 if we made smaller 100/150mm fans for domestic use instead of the larger commercial ones, for use alongside the cooker hoods that use similar small ductwork & vents.
Easy enough fix, yet definitely not designed for long term durability.....giant heat generating resistor next to the most critical capacitor, built-in replacement orders for new modules...fan, board, and all. Glorious.
Someone on another forum suggested connecting a fan to extract air from the cistern of a WC. This would then suck air out of the pan via the overflow tube of its lift to flush valve. Thereby removing smells "at source"
That system is used in some composting toilets I've seen, and it works quite well. If porta potties added a small solar panel and fan they would be much less unpleasant.
It is a bit rubbish that the standby state is continually frying the resistor. I built an electric fan control unit for my car and added a relay as a flip flop that would only draw power when in use so it wouldn't drain the battery. But I guess any extra circuitry for such a nicety is too many pennies for the bean counters to contemplate.
I think by the replacement one should give priority to the temperature allowance (105 degC) instead of the voltage. You have a 15V zener, and the capacitor is charged through the output stage of that gate which have some drop-out as well. So that 16V cap I bet will never see anything above like 13-14V, maybe even less. But as the whole circuit is placed in a confined space, it actually doesn't matter the orientation, there will be hot as hell for sure :) Fart-extractor, priceless name for the device :)
Oh god! One of those Toilet-Turbos! The best way to wake up everyone and annoy for them for time that may just be minutes but feels like half the night.
A huge thank you from Australia! I'm studying elecrtrotechnology at the moment and your teardowns are amazing. I also just love listening to you speak 😂❤️
Thanks Clive. Had similar issue fixed by replacing the domed 470uF and changed the 47uF for good measure. [Edit...both caps were also 16v 105c but the large resistor was clearly getting quite hot and apparently affected the caps].
Helpful video - wish I'd found it a couple of years ago when I did the same fix! The timers on these cheap fans last < 2 years. Last time one went wrong, I replaced the internal timer with a mains relay and timer relay (£2ish each from Banggood) add a box, total about £10 - lasted 2 years so far. My circuit isn't completely correct that the timer starts when the light is first turned on and not when the light it turned off, so no "sitting down" for too long or the fan goes off!
That’s brilliant compared to the fans we have in the US that run from a separate switched feed and often get left on, venting lots of your hot air right out the roof in the winter (or cold air in the summer).
"brilliant" Not really, what if there is a window, and there is no need to switch on the light during the day? I buy the cheapest ventilator, without control and a separate motion detection switch. It works even in daylight, and I can replace the ventilator separately.
Not sure how common they are in the UK but on the continent you can easily find external timers for fans. They work exactly like this one but they aren't internal to the fan. You'd typically fit them into a junction box somewhere near the light wiring so you've already got the permanent and switched live at hand and only run a 2-core to the fan.
We have that with our “safety extra low voltage” 12v fans ~ an external box with the time-delay and step-down transformer outside the bathroom/shower-room and the fan inside the shower cubicle
wow that was interesting... I live in the US and the fart fans I have worked with are wired just like lights, L->N with switch in-between, and are inductive motors that almost NEVER go out. what an interesting difference
I used to get involved in everything to do with tractors when I lived in the countryside but I fell out of love with them after being told off for sitting on one at a farmers show. So now I am an ex tractor fan! Sorry :)
ESR, a great test to see if the capacitor is current limiting, EPR (Equivalent Parallel Resistance) is the test that shows up DC leakage, in other words.. how much it's short-circuiting or passing DC to where AC should only be! An LCR Bridge Meter would show up all the capacitors flaws, but that little eBay multi tester only gives capacity and ESR readings, EPR is the capacitor failure mode that is responsible for destroying the next component in line... I have probably mentioned earlier in another post of another video that there's a really good LCR Bridge Meter which is available on eBay for around $100. It gives everything that you need to know about a capacitor instantly on a single screen! You won't know how you got by without it! You will also never need to use your little component tester again... EPR is more important than ESR! Again, ESR stops things from working, EPR blows things up! There's not enough awareness about capacitor failure modes, ESR and capacity test just isn't enough!
Of course measuring at say 100Hz instead of 10kHz a reasonable LCR does you'd see an even more extreme theta or D and whether that's ESR or EPR it says this isn't much of a useful capacitor at that frequency
You should be a professor. I am a mere mortal who has interests in the whole electronics thing and I actually understood everything you said about the circuit. Oh, and keep in mind that my major is Advertising and Marketing!
That is what i would do. Other parts of the power supply might need modifying too. As it is it draws over 1W continueously without doing anything, which is unacceptable. It is very inefficient. It should not be using any power when the fan is not running.
yes it's a huge common cause of failure on these. They use them both in the inline version like this, and in the ceiling mounted version. the resistor slowly toasts the electrolytics. The cynical side of me says they don't use a capacitive dropper precisely to get repeat sales.
@@bigclivedotcom Could be. I'd like to see it partly cap dropped though. Being domestic sparks mainly, I have a box of them. They can be lucrative to keep. (There was a time when companies had the timed fans on special offer, and they were cheaper than the plain on/off ones... so I bought the timed ones and ...kept the results.)
Given the scorching below the resistor, standing well off the board, I wondered if it might be simpler to pierce the fan shroud in the vicinity of the resistor to have the fan itself cool the resistor -- feedback-loopishly. That wall between resistor and fan is nearly the low point in the circuit's compartment, so piercing it there wouldn't lend to water ingress…
your videos are so relaxing, thanks for the great job and teaching you do here in youtube for free, I also like the fact that you don't have sponsors or a patreon's account and don't care about money. we have to take example from this man. Have a beatyful day!
@@bigjd2k I think that is an inline fan, There's a huge difference between decent well designed inline fans compared to the cheesy plastic junk we get in DIY stores in the UK
Their are newer ones that claim to be more quiet - when my grandmother/nanny moved out of her bed&breakfast hotel (retiring) and in a housing estate, the house had “GREENWOOD AIRVAC” branded fans in the; en-suite/main bathroom, down stairs toilet and utility room, despite the house being previously occupied, the builders/electrician had bodged the installation of the fans - they were the type that had built-in back-draft shutters [rear mounted butterfly, spring loaded that open with the fan breeze] unfortunately they appeared to be jammed on the flexible duct and (the builders/sparky hadn’t noticed, the previous occupant might have smelled the lingering loo (poop/wee) smell in the toilet and the humidity/smell in the en-suite/main bathroom - both have openable windows so he did that 🙄). 🧐 - I was looking at the fan in the main bathroom and despite it being in the wall, I couldn’t see the duct and vent, so I got a long screwdriver and poked it though the fan grill and impeller and pushed the flaps open and reported it to grandma, saying I would have to take all the fans out to fix the problem and I had looked at their instructions online, but as she had just moved into the house, she refused to have me remove them to fix, (despite my profession in DIY, and the fans having isolation switches) afraid I would break any infrastructure in the house, she got me to write a letter to her (certified/trusted) DIY man called Adrian - who did DIY and had a workshop at the hotel, to fix the fans for her 😕, she also wanted me to change the off-time delay on the fan in the main bathroom but I refused (as I wanted to take the fan out the wall and fix the shutter problem first) as that required me to simply take the front off and turn a set screw 🙄. Eventually all Adrian did was remove the back-draft flaps from all the fans and replaced the external louvred vents with flap vents on the back wall of the house (including the cooker hood that didn’t have the problem 🤨) Nanna might have got a backdraft in her en-suite shower/toilet as the fan terminated with a cowl on the roof with no shutter 😁. Inadvertently when we first came to the house and had dinner, we shut Nanna’s old dog called Bootsy in the utility room (so we didn’t have him lying behind the table waiting for food to fall) and I turned the fan on to ventilate the room for Bootsy (removing his dog odour) but to think that the fan was (later discovered to be) blocked up and just making a noise and poor Bootsy had to put up with it 🙁. Years later I noticed that grandma was leaving the fan for the downstairs toilet switched off - 😠, she said it was noisy (causing the ceiling to resonate) I said I profess in DIY and could replace it with a quieter one as they now exist - I liked the look of the “envirovent silent 100” as it also claimed to have excellent back pressure - for long duct runs (duct goes over utility room past its fan and to back wall of house) and phoned Nanna about it and she liked that it would be quiet and would apparently be more suitable for the toilet. I went with dad to grandmas house and said hello to great-grandmother (being cared for by grandma as her husband had died in hospital 😢) and with dad I fitted the replacement fan in the ceiling and tried it and Nanna was delighted to how quiet it was - “you couldn’t hear it with the door closed” - grandma, as the other fan still works l spared it and took it home and might install it (where noise isn’t a problem) 🙂
Same here. EBM Pabst makes 230V fans in the style of computer fans. I wonder if running one of those for 30 seconds would do better. Side effect may be pulling the door shut.
That is the most complicated bathroom fan I have seen. why so much technology? Our bath room fans in the USA are simple. Just a motor and wire. Literally. Great Video!
The main purpose of a bathroom fan is to remove water vapour from showering or bathing so it doesn't cause the wood &c to rot. Extracting odours is a bonus side effect.
Damn, I might well be guilty as charged ... but the fan had definitely gone, but I did keep the board for some reason ...so fantastic to see Clive explain how it works! Will try and see what components on mine might have failed. Excellent learning experience.
@@petebowcott8348 most electrical/electronic stuff being dumped is probably repairable if faulty, and some nothing wrong at all, just they want to 'upgrade' /have the latest thing...
the extractor fan in our bathroom has a humidity sensor in it, so it comes on if either the light is turned on, or the humidity gets too high (assuming the bodge job switch isn't turned off, the bodge job switch allows it to be set so that it only comes on if the humidity gets too high)
In additon to the capacitive dropper, I wonder if Clive could try inserting a resistor to reduce the charge current into the timing capacitor. If it works, it would provide a grace period of say a couple of minutes when you want to visit the bathroom at 3am for some minor personal reason, and don't want the fan to cause a disturbance. Even when you intend to have a shower, or are likely to be emitting methane and sulphur dioxide smells, it's usually a few minutes before the fan needs to start running.
My idea is to have the resistor on longer tales, bend it at an angle and put it through a slot into the air flow to actively cool it down, but as Clive has said, and it would eventually get dust on one side 😕
@@samuelfellows6923 It would be easier to specify a slightly higher power resistor instead of messing about with creative methods of thermal management. Most fans aren't spinning for even 1% of their lifetime, so forced air cooling can't be an option.
I hate fans that switch on with the bathroom light. To impress the next person to use the bathroom with my personal fragrance I have to do my business in the dark, which tends to be a messy affair.
I hate the running fan too, but I am not brave enough to force others to enjoy my lovely poo smell. So I found timer, that is triggered just after the light is switched off.
I like the bathroom vent design. I wonder if they make versions for North America. I'm currently have a six watt fan in place of the old 100 watt squirrel cage thing. It would cost $100 to replace it, and the heating element is fried as well. It's a 1960s, NuTone heat-vent-light thing. Right now, it's just an open ceiling box. Money has been tight for over 20 years, so I never get around to replacing these things.
Regarding desoldering braid/wick, my experience is that the cheap stuff *doesn't* contain much/any flux and therefore works very poorly, if at all. Some may be better than others, of course, but I've bought several "brands" of cheap solder braid from AliExpress/elsewhere, and it was all terrible without my own flux added. By contrast, the more expensive options (e.g. I use MG Chemicals Superwick, and Servisol Soldamop) *do* tend to contain a good amount of flux, and thus work very well, but the price difference can be significant. However, *adding* flux to cheap braid is easy enough, as Clive shows here. You just require some liquid flux, which is useful to have around anyway. (But maybe don't do it directly over a bare MDF surface? 😹) For *years* I hated desoldering wick and thought it was just awful, useless stuff, instead sticking with my Engineer solder sucker (model "SS-02"). But I later learnt that my frustrations with it were solely down to me buying cheap braid and not knowing that it needed the addition of flux! I've since had good results with flux added to cheap wick, and with "unmodified" more-expensive wick, so I've totally reversed my opinion of it! :) (I personally buy & use the "premium quality" desoldering braid because I don't use much of it - so the extra cost isn't a big deal - and because I can't be arsed to add flux most of the time. Cheap stuff with added flux is usually a valid option, though :)) It can also be useful to add extra flux to pre-fluxed braid if a length of braid has already been used, so there's no remaining flux in that area, but you think that section of wick still has some capacity for solder and you don't want to waste it - in order to minimise wasted copper or to maximise the use you get from a roll of premium braid! (In some situations you can end up melting/evaporating away all the flux from a length of braid while absorbing little-to-no solder, so I'm not just talking about having a messy strip of braid that's already around 80% full of solder but you want to try to fill that remaining 20%, potentially making a bit of a mess on your board!)
And I think the iron has to be hot enough for that wicking effect, mine isn’t ~ a direct form mains soldering iron, I think Clive has a soldering station with adjustable temperature so that is why it works for him?
The idle power of this unit consumes about 10KWh/year wasting both power and money. They could have reduced this wastage dramatically by using a dropper capacitor on the power input. This would have added a couple of pence to the manufacturing cost and saved 100x as much per year in reduced running costs but the manufacturer don't pay the user's electricity bills.
The UK building industry never thinks further than a few months and supports Tories. Therefore the cheaper unit wins, heat pumps are rare likewise grey water systems and best not mention cladding (though to be fair it was Labour that relaxed building and banking regulation)
No idea if it’s by design or not but that fat resistor burning 1W at standby will make it almost impossible for condensation to occur, a possible consideration if using as a bathroom extractor.
One of the easy ways to encourage capacitors to dry out is using the wrong lead spacing for the application. Spreading out the legs of the capacitor stretches the holes in the end stopper such that gas can escape along the side of each lead, letting it evaporate dry over time. That might explain why the power supply capacitor died but the timing capacitor survived. A small pair of round-nosed jewelry pliers can make precisely shaping through-hole leads easier. Since each side of the plier is effectively a long cone, they can also be used for making controlled radius bends. In this case, bending one or both of the leads into a deliberate offset could prevent the problem in the future.
..............why did i just spend 15 minutes watching a guy and a presumably fake rat(it could just be old and have stiff joints and hard time moving) unclog a shitty drain with coucabara birds in the background making australian noises for a bottle of red wine???
Hi Big Clive I recently purchased a fan from B&Q under impresion it was a timer fan, however made pcb for your circuit but didn't use 22k resister but used a 330nan with 470k shunt, & 56ohm res in series limits wast, also Triac drive I had to add a Diode in series with the 1lk5 res or triac back feeds 4001 and it don't like it, now works.
Well it sounds familiar. The most common failure in electronics which I was fixing were capacitors. For example I received a broken monitor that was unable to turn on. So I took out the logic board and I noticed a popped capacitor. I replaced it but it didn't help. Then I noticed three more capacitors which looked good but they were actually dried out. So I replaced them as well and the monitor has been brought back to life.
Clearing via's of solder is done quite fast by heating the solder and hitting it with a shot of dust off. Not for the faint of heart but fast and effective.
My first HIFI was a ALBA micro-component cd/cassette/radio, I used it for several years until it went into “eternal” stand-by [pressing the power button did nothing] I assumed the transformer had failed, I took it apart for fun and dad threw it away thinking it could not be repaired, several years later I now assume the “filtering” capacitors had gone leaky and I could have repaired it had I known back then 🙂
That is unacceptable. I would redesign the cicuit if it was mine. It should not draw any power when the fan is not running. Im thinking a high voltage MOSFET that is switched on by the switched live with a capacitor on its gate that slowly discharges when the light is switched off.
If it was a capacitor issue, I was thinking about a start capacitor growing weaker and weaker inside the motor... losing starting torque and becoming harder and harder to start, until it let go completely, started to hum and not do anything.
Not sure if the one I have (it's meant for constant ventilation for the room I am in since it doesn't have a very good circulation otherwise) is supplied with this circuit, because I've had two and while looking similar, both of them suffered broken bearings (we found out after opening the first one they are not ball bearings, so that obviously does not help). Most common thing that starts to give them away when the bearings start to go is the thing making an awful screeching sound.
Dam! I went for the other capacitor! Also since nothing happened when turned on I would have tested the fan first, could have saved some time if that were the culprit?
Ive replaced many of these & if its not crammed & clogged with dust/ dead skin it normally has a 2watt resistor that has got very hot. The variable resistor is for the time on period NOT for the fan speed.
Seems like a pretty wasteful circuit, 1W standby power for an time delay switch. For a few pennies, the feed resistor could be disconnected until turned on by the sense input and only kept on until the timer runs out, practically zero standby power. Well, that PCB is from 2002 and energy conservation wasn't anywhere near as big a deal back then.
@@simontay4851 doubt it'd be possible to make it truly 'zero' standby power as any sensing circuit would need to be powered !, and extra circuitry would be needed , difficult to fit more in that small box, if the triac was a more 'sensitive gate' type that big resistor could probably be increased in value , reducing power consumption and unwanted heating
@@andygozzo72 It is possible. One way is to have an extra winding or tap on the motor winding which is used to power the timing cct, so when the motor stops it's completely dead.
Nice! The next step is to figure out how to cool the resistor using the fan - a strategically located hole in the round plastic fan shroud might be all it needs to let a gentle gust cool the resistor.
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It never ceases to amaze me the dexterity of Clives fingers holding two things plus soldering.
surprisingly you learn pretty quickly how to use 4 fingers on your left hand to hold 2 wires facing each other for soldering
his hands now touched the fart-stained fan blades
John you soon get the hang of it, the number of times i have burnt the tip of my tong though when soldering it unreal, how the fcuk do i do that you ask? well the solder bends sometimes as you soldering, so you grip the end with your teeth and then pull it straight, problem is every now and then its still hot and the tong just don't learn, rather like when tooth ache eases off till its prodded again with the tong.
@@chrispartosbro4555 LOL. Kind of like the triple dog dare and getting your tong stuck to the flag pole ! I’d burn my fingers tying to hold every thing That’s why I have a old pair of extra hands that radio shack sold years ago I miss that store !
i just use my right foot to help out haha
I think 99.9% of the faulty circuits I've repaired over nearly 30 years are either dry or puffy electrolytic capacitors. But I've seen other stuff like burned resistors, exploded varistors and such, but they're mostly symptoms of a defective electrolytic capacitor in the same circuit.
My mantra: It’s _always_ the capacitors. I replace them preemptively in power supplies now.
Good to know
Thanks to Clive’s videos I was able to diagnose and cheaply repair an expensive wine cooler cabinet. It turned out to be a surface mounted fuse and a varistor. My best guess is that they were both blown during a lightning storm. Thanks Clive!
Wow, just a day after this video I noticed my vacuum cleaner struggling. I opened it up, it had a similar circuit. I changed the filtering capacitor and it now works like when it was new! Thank you for those videos they are awesome!!!
Dead from overheating right next to a fan. Ah, the irony - so close, yet so far. 🤣 Thanks for the laughter, Clive. 👍
i've seen a few fart extractors that.. have melted. The motor bearings dry, becomes a heater, and slowly the entire "engine" block melts through the housing and hits you on the head.
Haha! Depending on how & WHEN, that is too funny. One of those few breaks we get, where you end up saying "Really life? Thanks, just thanks"!
An evil genius would pipe the exhaust INTO the office cubicles.... 😁 Would add a whole new meaning to "Shitty day at the office".
The propeller stops in only 3 seconds. I'd say this one will die rather quickly if it's not lubricated
🤭😯 - never seen that happen, normally these would make a hideous noise before the bearings have failed and the performance to degrade, and did you see it starting to ooze out the ceiling 😬
I've headed of one that caught fire melting the structure, falling onto a can of shaving foam putting the fire out.
Everyone one else: "Don't do this at home, I'm a professional."
Big Clive: "Don't do this at home. I'm an idiot." :)
This gun fits my hand better that this one
What, a farting professional?
Fixing the real life changing, revolutionary equipment
Any fan is revolutionary equipment
I'm a fan of this
I have never heard a bathroom vent fan referred to as a "fart extractor" before. I love it. In the US, it's very often a separate switch, although sometimes it's tied to the lights and shuts off at the same time they do. It's better to have a separate switch because you really don't want the damn thing running all the time when the lights are on. It's extra noise pollution, and it sucks the air conditioning out of the house.
And I have heard that the 🇺🇸 does things far superior than the 🇬🇧 that founded your country ~ your “bathroom” extractor fans have additional “deluxe” functions; lights, night light, heater fan, infrared lamps, and some can now play music and be controlled with a smartphone
Cheers for this one Clive. I shall be heading up to our attic to perform surgery on our fan soon thanks to you.
I'm so happy the big guy has cleared the air, many thanks Clive. I really appreciate your time and all your efforts!
I've just found out why my belly is so round and huge.... My fart extractor must have failed. Thanks Clive! You're better than my doctor.
Who knew that it would hold the smell of farts within it until it was fixed? Such a thoughtful design.
12:37 'It's not Ideal". That's my line! I use that all the time! Do I own the term, no. But I use that phrase almost every day, for example. "How is the weather for painting outside today?" "It's not Ideal". I'm soo glad I found this channel!
A fart-extractor? I have been doing it the old-fashioned way.
If you need to "extract" them you might want to consult a physician.
@@dizzy_derps you stole and bettered his joke.
@@dizzy_derps Or dyno-rod.
I don’t want to sound rude but are you talking about a good grunt or having a open window to waft it out ? LOL
Working it out with a slide rule and pencil?
14:37 At that point you might as well call it a resistor with equivalent series capacitance.
also known as the toilet turbojet, because they're nearly as loud as a turbojet aircraft on takeoff
If you get a chance to put a line fan instead of a surface fan.
It is so much quieter.
@@assassinlexx1993 pretty sure 90% of the pubs in England that still have these have never replaced them
@@SpudderRail
So your pubs smell like a bathroom?
Here in the colonies our drinking establishments smell then the same but with out fans.
We had a old Vortice one that was relatively old (probably from the 80's or 90's, no idea) I can confirm, this thing ran loud as hell.
Unlike most homes, it was on its own power switch (although we would seldom use it), not tied to the lights. We ended up replacing it with a variable speed unit (the fan's speed varies with the amount of humidity in the room), so now we leave it turned on all the time. In normal circumstances it spins at a relatively low speed and quietly but when someone takes a shower, the fan definitely starts speeding up at full tilt and making a whole cacophony in the process (LOL).
I still kept it in my scrap box, along with a newer, smaller Vortice (that is more barebones than the older one, the older one had small shutters on the front that would open when power was applied, the smaller one doesn't) that I have no idea if it works or not, but given how small it is, I can only imagine it makes a hell of a racket too.
@@SpudderRail - and vintage vent-axia, xpelair, vortice, extractor/ventilation fans in their walls and windows - main pub area and toilets. 😁
your soldering/desoldering dexterity continues to impress. thanks for the informative video.
Is it me or is Clive really getting more technical with these chips and circuits? Yay free knowledge ❤👍
Really like the avatar/picture. The left eye got my attention.
No.
Probably, it comes with experience.
Clive, you have a way with words.
I’m really enjoying and learning from these videos. Who would have known whats inside all those electronics.
You should do more MRE reviews because people really enjoy watching those. 👍⭐️
In the USA, we have two separate switches, one for the light and one for the fan. This makes it possible to turn the light on and brush your teeth without the noisy fan running. On the downside, you must either turn off the fan when you leave the restroom or you must come back later and turn it off.
There are fan timer switches, I personally think they're great.
Yes we have those too, but in hotels and rental properties you don't want the occupants to have showers without turning on the fan, otherwise the humidity will eventually cause mould on the ceiling. That's why you'll see certain properties where the fan and light are on the same switch, so the tenant is forced to use the fan when showering.
I would consider that a reasonable planning phase duration. Be aware that the fan noise can make it difficult to hear BC when you are ensconced. 😉
I also have identical fans to those,4 actually,. Due to be fact that both my daughter's have failed to grasp the fact that you can turn off lights as well as on,those fitted in the toilets nearest their rooms have been on almost continually for about 4 years now including a continual 2 week stint for one in 2019. I was initially relying on the lie that they would explode if left on too long in an effort to get them to switch off lights,sort of hoping one would pack up and puff out a bit of smoke to prove a point,it didn't work and they have been faultless despite this. I have since given up asking!😄
You writing fan fiction? What is that? Why a story?
@@areyouundoingthatorwhat9181 Yeah ... that is how you raise good kids ... just give up.
@@areyouundoingthatorwhat9181i feel your pain, sounds like our house, i swear if they knew the oven had a light in that would be on, we on 3 levels, the 2 in question are in the middle with bathroom downstairs, hey will leave the bed room (1 light on) take 1 side step left to turn on the upper stairs lights on (2 more lights on), then take two steps right, go round the corner and turn the lower stairs light on (1 more), now they get to the bottom and turn on the living room lights from the stairs without entering the room (3 spots and a wall light), then enter the kitchen and press both switches, (2 x 3 spots and a 8 feet tube), are you adding these up? now we pass the fridge and cooker leaving these lights alone,!we then enter the passage and again press both switches, (3 spots and both that was 500 Watt outside lights but now led's) then enter the bathroom and turn on the the 6 feet tube, o yeah and they never close doors unless slamming, they turn on a total of 22 lights out of a possible 26 as the fridge gets a visit on the return trip (26 with fridge n cooker lol), all while there face is lit up with a friggin mobile phone.i swear i will fit them timer switches one day you get in rented shared stairwells where you have to press then race to the next switch while the light is still on.
Capacitor guilty as charged (or not charged in this case 😁)
I used to think that bathroom fans were for fresh air, and most people turn them on for that reason. On review of electrical code books, these are mandated to reduce humidity and control mold. You get the additional side benefit of dry towels.
Good ol' transformerless power supply with a big inrush limiting resistor, I've used many over the years. Nice simple repair. :-) Fart away!
🥴💨🤢
SPRUITS PRÖÖT TÖÖT
Inrush? It's not just an inrush limiter. It needs to be there to set the current going in to the zener diode regulator circuit.
@@BrianG61UK No, you're talking about a rener regulator circuit, I was talking about the high wattage resistor connected directly to the AC line, it's for inrush limiting, unless I failed to inspect the schematic carefully. I've put together many of these transformerless supplies over the years.
@@electronicsNmore No it's not just an inrush limiter. It needs to be there even once everything is up to normal running voltage or there would be an explosion. It is not just limiting the current while the capacitors charge up when first connected to power. The initial surge while the capacitors charge is barely more than the normal running current in this circuit because the capacitors only charge to 15V and mains voltage is 240V.
Thanks Clive! This circuit is in older Manrose MF100t fans. In my case the timer stopped working and the 470uf 16v capacitor had slightly bulged. Replaced with a Panasonic 470uf 25v (given newer Mf100t fans use 25v not 16v) and the timer was back 👍 There is enough room to fit the larger 25v capacitor away from the hot resistor in the casing.
I love this style of video! Thanks, Clive! Very educational.
I hadn't watched until the end but i'd of gone with the fault diagnosis of.. "Pinkeye Particle Build Up Within the Fan Bearing Causing Friction During Start." Lol. Btw Clive, I started into the electronics hobby/repair trade with the purchasing of some Jukebox timers and learned how to wire the microswitch contacts from my Dad. I then made my own disco lights at the ripe old age of 12. Much learned, mostly self taught in the hobby and T.V. Repair trade. I also had a stint as a "Gaff Lad" just before I broke into the electronics repair side proper. Love the content. Seeing the 4001 triggered nostalgia.
Guess what I’m doing now this week, my bathroom fart extractor is doing exactly the same,
The preceding has been a public service announcement from Clive on Channel Five.
Those M-Testers are brilliant. I wouldn't trust them for accurate, but it's impressive they can test so many different components AND VALUES using just a handful of digital IO pins. BTW it's some open source design that everyone rips off of, everyone has a different version with different component support
Me: I'll just solder this in my helping hands
Clive: I'll just solder this one handed
#badasssoldering
This bloke is sooo annoyingly clever, but you just can't resist his videos.
Another great repair. I used a lot of them in line duct fans, Manrose in the late 80s then lots of cheap copies appeared at different wholesalers.
Once again my fine fellow, I tip my cap to your knowledge 😁😁👍
If you go further back from the 80s ~ you would find Vent-Axia, Xpelair, and other [now commercial/vintage] fan company’s promoting their fans for use in domestic environments, only when the cooker-hood was invented in the 70s that smaller 100/150mm ductwork and external vents were made for them and then 🌟 if we made smaller 100/150mm fans for domestic use instead of the larger commercial ones, for use alongside the cooker hoods that use similar small ductwork & vents.
With one component failure, it went from Fart Extractor to Dutch Oven-Maker. 🤣
I'm an electrical engineering student and I learn more from clive than any of my teachers
4:42 "It's very old fashioned". It is literally 001 in the series :) You could do all the logic for an Apollo Guidance Computer using only those.
I'd call CMOS logic #002. TTL was 001.
...making it the second in the series. The first is the 4000.
Though I guess the 4000, 4001 and 4002 were all designed at the same time.
@@andreasu.3546 I'd say that DTL (used a lot on Concorde flight control avionics!) was no.1, then TTL as #2 and THEN as #3 there's CMOS.
@@klausstock8020 I think Andreas is talking about the _familes_ rather than the 4000, 4001, etc _within_ the CMOS family
@@klausstock8020 lol, good point. OB1
Easy enough fix, yet definitely not designed for long term durability.....giant heat generating resistor next to the most critical capacitor, built-in replacement orders for new modules...fan, board, and all. Glorious.
Someone on another forum suggested connecting a fan to extract air from the cistern of a WC. This would then suck air out of the pan via the overflow tube of its lift to flush valve. Thereby removing smells "at source"
That system is used in some composting toilets I've seen, and it works quite well.
If porta potties added a small solar panel and fan they would be much less unpleasant.
It is a bit rubbish that the standby state is continually frying the resistor. I built an electric fan control unit for my car and added a relay as a flip flop that would only draw power when in use so it wouldn't drain the battery. But I guess any extra circuitry for such a nicety is too many pennies for the bean counters to contemplate.
I think by the replacement one should give priority to the temperature allowance (105 degC) instead of the voltage. You have a 15V zener, and the capacitor is charged through the output stage of that gate which have some drop-out as well. So that 16V cap I bet will never see anything above like 13-14V, maybe even less. But as the whole circuit is placed in a confined space, it actually doesn't matter the orientation, there will be hot as hell for sure :)
Fart-extractor, priceless name for the device :)
Oh god! One of those Toilet-Turbos!
The best way to wake up everyone and annoy for them for time that may just be minutes but feels like half the night.
A huge thank you from Australia! I'm studying elecrtrotechnology at the moment and your teardowns are amazing. I also just love listening to you speak 😂❤️
Greetings from the western side of this giant island!
Glad to see signs of new life in the electronics scene :)
VT thanks! It's a quiet little industry, but definitely growing
Me: _pondering what to watch next… maybe another sermon to close out a fine weekend_
TH-cam: _howzabout a fart extractor with ol' Clive?_
Me: _!_
Thanks Clive. Had similar issue fixed by replacing the domed 470uF and changed the 47uF for good measure. [Edit...both caps were also 16v 105c but the large resistor was clearly getting quite hot and apparently affected the caps].
This video brought to you TacoBell
Why? What's a taco bell
@@girlsdrinkfeck Taco Bell is a restaurant in the United States that's notorious for giving people stomach problems
Need a chilled water bidet since chilli burns both going in and coming out again!
No fan can handle taco Bell blasts either they clog with diarrhea or just get melted by the death cloud.
Taco bell does not exist in the UK
Helpful video - wish I'd found it a couple of years ago when I did the same fix! The timers on these cheap fans last < 2 years. Last time one went wrong, I replaced the internal timer with a mains relay and timer relay (£2ish each from Banggood) add a box, total about £10 - lasted 2 years so far. My circuit isn't completely correct that the timer starts when the light is first turned on and not when the light it turned off, so no "sitting down" for too long or the fan goes off!
That’s brilliant compared to the fans we have in the US that run from a separate switched feed and often get left on, venting lots of your hot air right out the roof in the winter (or cold air in the summer).
"brilliant"
Not really, what if there is a window, and there is no need to switch on the light during the day?
I buy the cheapest ventilator, without control and a separate motion detection switch.
It works even in daylight, and I can replace the ventilator separately.
Not sure how common they are in the UK but on the continent you can easily find external timers for fans. They work exactly like this one but they aren't internal to the fan. You'd typically fit them into a junction box somewhere near the light wiring so you've already got the permanent and switched live at hand and only run a 2-core to the fan.
We have that with our “safety extra low voltage” 12v fans ~ an external box with the time-delay and step-down transformer outside the bathroom/shower-room and the fan inside the shower cubicle
haha! Great video Clive! I knew it would of been capacitor related. Atleast Clive now has a spare solder fume extraction fan :D
wow that was interesting... I live in the US and the fart fans I have worked with are wired just like lights, L->N with switch in-between, and are inductive motors that almost NEVER go out. what an interesting difference
I used to get involved in everything to do with tractors when I lived in the countryside but I fell out of love with them after being told off for sitting on one at a farmers show. So now I am an ex tractor fan! Sorry :)
ESR, a great test to see if the capacitor is current limiting, EPR (Equivalent Parallel Resistance) is the test that shows up DC leakage, in other words.. how much it's short-circuiting or passing DC to where AC should only be!
An LCR Bridge Meter would show up all the capacitors flaws, but that little eBay multi tester only gives capacity and ESR readings, EPR is the capacitor failure mode that is responsible for destroying the next component in line...
I have probably mentioned earlier in another post of another video that there's a really good LCR Bridge Meter which is available on eBay for around $100. It gives everything that you need to know about a capacitor instantly on a single screen! You won't know how you got by without it! You will also never need to use your little component tester again...
EPR is more important than ESR!
Again, ESR stops things from working, EPR blows things up!
There's not enough awareness about capacitor failure modes, ESR and capacity test just isn't enough!
Of course measuring at say 100Hz instead of 10kHz a reasonable LCR does you'd see an even more extreme theta or D and whether that's ESR or EPR it says this isn't much of a useful capacitor at that frequency
From now on, I shall refer to all bathroom ventilation fans as Fart X-Tractors
My old man's always called it 'the fart fan'.
I thought everyone called them fart fans.
A trump remover!
Fart grinder
Maybe it’s an regional term. I’ve always called it a fart fan, but fart extractor is nice.
You should be a professor. I am a mere mortal who has interests in the whole electronics thing and I actually understood everything you said about the circuit.
Oh, and keep in mind that my major is Advertising and Marketing!
Would be interesting to see if the resistor could be changed for a capasitive dropper.
That is what i would do. Other parts of the power supply might need modifying too. As it is it draws over 1W continueously without doing anything, which is unacceptable. It is very inefficient. It should not be using any power when the fan is not running.
yes it's a huge common cause of failure on these. They use them both in the inline version like this, and in the ceiling mounted version. the resistor slowly toasts the electrolytics. The cynical side of me says they don't use a capacitive dropper precisely to get repeat sales.
The resistor may double up as a mini anti-condensation heater.
@@bigclivedotcom Could be. I'd like to see it partly cap dropped though. Being domestic sparks mainly, I have a box of them. They can be lucrative to keep. (There was a time when companies had the timed fans on special offer, and they were cheaper than the plain on/off ones... so I bought the timed ones and ...kept the results.)
Given the scorching below the resistor, standing well off the board, I wondered if it might be simpler to pierce the fan shroud in the vicinity of the resistor to have the fan itself cool the resistor -- feedback-loopishly. That wall between resistor and fan is nearly the low point in the circuit's compartment, so piercing it there wouldn't lend to water ingress…
Well diagnosed Clive.
An interestingly simple retro circuit indeed.
Its very clean for a fan that has been in use.
I did clean and santize as much as possible with antibacterial wipes before sending it to Clive.
@@physicmad 😂😂😂😂😂😭😭😭😭
your videos are so relaxing, thanks for the great job and teaching you do here in youtube for free, I also like the fact that you don't have sponsors or a patreon's account and don't care about money. we have to take example from this man. Have a beatyful day!
I do have a Patreon page. Their support means I don't put adverts in the middle of my videos and have a bit of security if TH-cam delete my channel.
@@bigclivedotcom what a fast response too!!! I'm sorry i can't donate to you but i support in any way possible.
My experience of those fans after a little experimentation is they make noise but not actually move air in any significant way
Either that, or the previous occupant moved too much air in an antisocial way!
In-line ones are way better, and hide in the loft out of the way
@@bigjd2k I think that is an inline fan, There's a huge difference between decent well designed inline fans compared to the cheesy plastic junk we get in DIY stores in the UK
Their are newer ones that claim to be more quiet - when my grandmother/nanny moved out of her bed&breakfast hotel (retiring) and in a housing estate, the house had “GREENWOOD AIRVAC” branded fans in the; en-suite/main bathroom, down stairs toilet and utility room, despite the house being previously occupied, the builders/electrician had bodged the installation of the fans - they were the type that had built-in back-draft shutters [rear mounted butterfly, spring loaded that open with the fan breeze] unfortunately they appeared to be jammed on the flexible duct and (the builders/sparky hadn’t noticed, the previous occupant might have smelled the lingering loo (poop/wee) smell in the toilet and the humidity/smell in the en-suite/main bathroom - both have openable windows so he did that 🙄). 🧐 - I was looking at the fan in the main bathroom and despite it being in the wall, I couldn’t see the duct and vent, so I got a long screwdriver and poked it though the fan grill and impeller and pushed the flaps open and reported it to grandma, saying I would have to take all the fans out to fix the problem and I had looked at their instructions online, but as she had just moved into the house, she refused to have me remove them to fix, (despite my profession in DIY, and the fans having isolation switches) afraid I would break any infrastructure in the house, she got me to write a letter to her (certified/trusted) DIY man called Adrian - who did DIY and had a workshop at the hotel, to fix the fans for her 😕, she also wanted me to change the off-time delay on the fan in the main bathroom but I refused (as I wanted to take the fan out the wall and fix the shutter problem first) as that required me to simply take the front off and turn a set screw 🙄. Eventually all Adrian did was remove the back-draft flaps from all the fans and replaced the external louvred vents with flap vents on the back wall of the house (including the cooker hood that didn’t have the problem 🤨) Nanna might have got a backdraft in her en-suite shower/toilet as the fan terminated with a cowl on the roof with no shutter 😁. Inadvertently when we first came to the house and had dinner, we shut Nanna’s old dog called Bootsy in the utility room (so we didn’t have him lying behind the table waiting for food to fall) and I turned the fan on to ventilate the room for Bootsy (removing his dog odour) but to think that the fan was (later discovered to be) blocked up and just making a noise and poor Bootsy had to put up with it 🙁. Years later I noticed that grandma was leaving the fan for the downstairs toilet switched off - 😠, she said it was noisy (causing the ceiling to resonate) I said I profess in DIY and could replace it with a quieter one as they now exist - I liked the look of the “envirovent silent 100” as it also claimed to have excellent back pressure - for long duct runs (duct goes over utility room past its fan and to back wall of house) and phoned Nanna about it and she liked that it would be quiet and would apparently be more suitable for the toilet. I went with dad to grandmas house and said hello to great-grandmother (being cared for by grandma as her husband had died in hospital 😢) and with dad I fitted the replacement fan in the ceiling and tried it and Nanna was delighted to how quiet it was - “you couldn’t hear it with the door closed” - grandma, as the other fan still works l spared it and took it home and might install it (where noise isn’t a problem) 🙂
Same here. EBM Pabst makes 230V fans in the style of computer fans. I wonder if running one of those for 30 seconds would do better.
Side effect may be pulling the door shut.
Funny, fart extractor is what I call the ventilation fans installed in the bathrooms of airplanes!! They are very useful.
When I read the title I thought it was literally a machine that turned farts into energy and I was like "who is this genius?"
Little trick for stripping wire with shnips: flip the shnips around so the hollow part is facing the wire, makes it a bit easier.
2:00 "Where is a stripper? Can't immediately see a stripper, I shall just use... My shnips..." - - Clive 2021
I do not earn enough to pay strippers. I use my knipex sidecutters
*nibble nibble*
That is the most complicated bathroom fan I have seen. why so much technology? Our bath room fans in the USA are simple. Just a motor and wire. Literally. Great Video!
Oh yeah now I remember seeing FART X-TRACTOR 2002 on late night teevee back in the day.
Seeing Clive use side cutters to strip wires immediately makes me feel better about doing it for unimportant things
Hello, Big Clive. Your biggest fan. Here in the ‘new dart’ at least. Really enjoyed the Zoom w/ Dave Jones, etc.
"Your biggest fan." - I can't help thinking this doubled as a pun.
The main purpose of a bathroom fan is to remove water vapour from showering or bathing so it doesn't cause the wood &c to rot. Extracting odours is a bonus side effect.
I wonder how many such things end up in landfill for the sake of a 5p component?
Yes :)
Too many.
@@simontay4851 far too many, i had an plug in timer switch go bad due to cap going low, wasnt an electrolytic, though, a poly dielectric type,
Damn, I might well be guilty as charged ... but the fan had definitely gone, but I did keep the board for some reason ...so fantastic to see Clive explain how it works! Will try and see what components on mine might have failed. Excellent learning experience.
@@petebowcott8348 most electrical/electronic stuff being dumped is probably repairable if faulty, and some nothing wrong at all, just they want to 'upgrade' /have the latest thing...
the extractor fan in our bathroom has a humidity sensor in it, so it comes on if either the light is turned on, or the humidity gets too high (assuming the bodge job switch isn't turned off, the bodge job switch allows it to be set so that it only comes on if the humidity gets too high)
They should put the resistor in the air flow, protected by sleeving.
Excellent training knowledge for all new greenhorns. Thanks Clive!!!
"that's okay, it'll dry up and disappear" ... leaving a sticky mess:P
Great video - thanks for also checking the faulty cap with the component tester, just to go full-circle :)
Is a FART X-TRACTOR someone who unboxes Italian neon transformers?
This comment deserves more love.
I hope one day I will be able to understand electronics the way you do, but for now, I'll keep learning and watching your videos!
I'd love to see a "Part 2" where you design and implement a capacitive dropper circuit to replace that resistor.
In additon to the capacitive dropper, I wonder if Clive could try inserting a resistor to reduce the charge current into the timing capacitor. If it works, it would provide a grace period of say a couple of minutes when you want to visit the bathroom at 3am for some minor personal reason, and don't want the fan to cause a disturbance. Even when you intend to have a shower, or are likely to be emitting methane and sulphur dioxide smells, it's usually a few minutes before the fan needs to start running.
It's been pointed out that the use of a resistor may double up as an anti-condensation heater.
@@bigclivedotcom Never thought of that, that's a good point!
My idea is to have the resistor on longer tales, bend it at an angle and put it through a slot into the air flow to actively cool it down, but as Clive has said, and it would eventually get dust on one side 😕
@@samuelfellows6923 It would be easier to specify a slightly higher power resistor instead of messing about with creative methods of thermal management. Most fans aren't spinning for even 1% of their lifetime, so forced air cooling can't be an option.
"fart extractor" sounds like the name of a torture instrument lol
I hate fans that switch on with the bathroom light. To impress the next person to use the bathroom with my personal fragrance I have to do my business in the dark, which tends to be a messy affair.
Personalised fragrances 😆
🥴💨🛌 🤢
(Dutch oven 😉)
10/10
Well that's a shitty thing to do
Couldn't you leave the light on and use a blindfold?
A bidet is good for this problem and to keep things nice and clean in general.
I hate the running fan too, but I am not brave enough to force others to enjoy my lovely poo smell. So I found timer, that is triggered just after the light is switched off.
I like the bathroom vent design. I wonder if they make versions for North America. I'm currently have a six watt fan in place of the old 100 watt squirrel cage thing. It would cost $100 to replace it, and the heating element is fried as well. It's a 1960s, NuTone heat-vent-light thing. Right now, it's just an open ceiling box. Money has been tight for over 20 years, so I never get around to replacing these things.
Regarding desoldering braid/wick, my experience is that the cheap stuff *doesn't* contain much/any flux and therefore works very poorly, if at all. Some may be better than others, of course, but I've bought several "brands" of cheap solder braid from AliExpress/elsewhere, and it was all terrible without my own flux added.
By contrast, the more expensive options (e.g. I use MG Chemicals Superwick, and Servisol Soldamop) *do* tend to contain a good amount of flux, and thus work very well, but the price difference can be significant.
However, *adding* flux to cheap braid is easy enough, as Clive shows here. You just require some liquid flux, which is useful to have around anyway. (But maybe don't do it directly over a bare MDF surface? 😹)
For *years* I hated desoldering wick and thought it was just awful, useless stuff, instead sticking with my Engineer solder sucker (model "SS-02").
But I later learnt that my frustrations with it were solely down to me buying cheap braid and not knowing that it needed the addition of flux!
I've since had good results with flux added to cheap wick, and with "unmodified" more-expensive wick, so I've totally reversed my opinion of it! :)
(I personally buy & use the "premium quality" desoldering braid because I don't use much of it - so the extra cost isn't a big deal - and because I can't be arsed to add flux most of the time. Cheap stuff with added flux is usually a valid option, though :))
It can also be useful to add extra flux to pre-fluxed braid if a length of braid has already been used, so there's no remaining flux in that area, but you think that section of wick still has some capacity for solder and you don't want to waste it - in order to minimise wasted copper or to maximise the use you get from a roll of premium braid!
(In some situations you can end up melting/evaporating away all the flux from a length of braid while absorbing little-to-no solder, so I'm not just talking about having a messy strip of braid that's already around 80% full of solder but you want to try to fill that remaining 20%, potentially making a bit of a mess on your board!)
Yeh I've got mainly Servisol wick
And I think the iron has to be hot enough for that wicking effect, mine isn’t ~ a direct form mains soldering iron, I think Clive has a soldering station with adjustable temperature so that is why it works for him?
Having always used CMOS on a 5V supply I've learned from this. Cheers Clive.
The idle power of this unit consumes about 10KWh/year wasting both power and money. They could have reduced this wastage dramatically by using a dropper capacitor on the power input. This would have added a couple of pence to the manufacturing cost and saved 100x as much per year in reduced running costs but the manufacturer don't pay the user's electricity bills.
The UK building industry never thinks further than a few months and supports Tories. Therefore the cheaper unit wins, heat pumps are rare likewise grey water systems and best not mention cladding (though to be fair it was Labour that relaxed building and banking regulation)
No idea if it’s by design or not but that fat resistor burning 1W at standby will make it almost impossible for condensation to occur, a possible consideration if using as a bathroom extractor.
That's a good point.
"it's completely dead... EXCELLENT!" (I laughed so hard!)
😆
One of the easy ways to encourage capacitors to dry out is using the wrong lead spacing for the application. Spreading out the legs of the capacitor stretches the holes in the end stopper such that gas can escape along the side of each lead, letting it evaporate dry over time. That might explain why the power supply capacitor died but the timing capacitor survived.
A small pair of round-nosed jewelry pliers can make precisely shaping through-hole leads easier. Since each side of the plier is effectively a long cone, they can also be used for making controlled radius bends. In this case, bending one or both of the leads into a deliberate offset could prevent the problem in the future.
DrainAddict, This Old Tony and now you!
I'm in Heaven!
whos drainaddict?
all thats missing is AvE
@@frogz Who is AvE?
..............why did i just spend 15 minutes watching a guy and a presumably fake rat(it could just be old and have stiff joints and hard time moving) unclog a shitty drain with coucabara birds in the background making australian noises for a bottle of red wine???
Don't forget GreatScott (PCB with red LEDs) and ElectroBOOM (Full Bridge Rectif... You possibly know him already.)
DrainAddict is a serious addiction!!
I was hooked quite awhile back and I've been unable to shake it.
Hi Big Clive I recently purchased a fan from B&Q under impresion it was a timer fan, however made pcb for your circuit
but didn't use 22k resister but used a 330nan with 470k shunt, & 56ohm res in series limits wast, also Triac drive I had to add
a Diode in series with the 1lk5 res or triac back feeds 4001 and it don't like it, now works.
More of a suppressor than extractor. Only to not imagine process of the latter.
Well it sounds familiar. The most common failure in electronics which I was fixing were capacitors. For example I received a broken monitor that was unable to turn on. So I took out the logic board and I noticed a popped capacitor. I replaced it but it didn't help. Then I noticed three more capacitors which looked good but they were actually dried out. So I replaced them as well and the monitor has been brought back to life.
Clearing via's of solder is done quite fast by heating the solder and hitting it with a shot of dust off. Not for the faint of heart but fast and effective.
ridiculously smart how he always knows exactly which part to replace first try 😂
My first HIFI was a ALBA micro-component cd/cassette/radio, I used it for several years until it went into “eternal” stand-by [pressing the power button did nothing] I assumed the transformer had failed, I took it apart for fun and dad threw it away thinking it could not be repaired, several years later I now assume the “filtering” capacitors had gone leaky and I could have repaired it had I known back then 🙂
Why didn't they use capacitive dropper?
If I understand correctly, this consumes a watt constantly, nicely toasting a 2 Watt resistor.🤔.
Great reverse engineering Clive.
Thanks for sharing.
That is unacceptable. I would redesign the cicuit if it was mine. It should not draw any power when the fan is not running. Im thinking a high voltage MOSFET that is switched on by the switched live with a capacitor on its gate that slowly discharges when the light is switched off.
If it was a capacitor issue, I was thinking about a start capacitor growing weaker and weaker inside the motor... losing starting torque and becoming harder and harder to start, until it let go completely, started to hum and not do anything.
Don't think a 19W fan uses capacitor
Not sure if the one I have (it's meant for constant ventilation for the room I am in since it doesn't have a very good circulation otherwise) is supplied with this circuit, because I've had two and while looking similar, both of them suffered broken bearings (we found out after opening the first one they are not ball bearings, so that obviously does not help).
Most common thing that starts to give them away when the bearings start to go is the thing making an awful screeching sound.
Dam! I went for the other capacitor! Also since nothing happened when turned on I would have tested the fan first, could have saved some time if that were the culprit?
Those fans are very stable. I've never come across a dead induction fan like this. They usually survive for decades and decades!
Ive replaced many of these & if its not crammed & clogged with dust/ dead skin it normally has a 2watt resistor that has got very hot. The variable resistor is for the time on period NOT for the fan speed.
Seems like a pretty wasteful circuit, 1W standby power for an time delay switch. For a few pennies, the feed resistor could be disconnected until turned on by the sense input and only kept on until the timer runs out, practically zero standby power. Well, that PCB is from 2002 and energy conservation wasn't anywhere near as big a deal back then.
Yes, thats very inefficient. If that was mine, i would redesign the circuit. It should not draw any power when the fan is not running.
A new call for hand cranked fans ?
I've got one that's less than 2 years old with the exact same PCB inside!!
@@simontay4851 doubt it'd be possible to make it truly 'zero' standby power as any sensing circuit would need to be powered !, and extra circuitry would be needed , difficult to fit more in that small box, if the triac was a more 'sensitive gate' type that big resistor could probably be increased in value , reducing power consumption and unwanted heating
@@andygozzo72 It is possible. One way is to have an extra winding or tap on the motor winding which is used to power the timing cct, so when the motor stops it's completely dead.
Nice! The next step is to figure out how to cool the resistor using the fan - a strategically located hole in the round plastic fan shroud might be all it needs to let a gentle gust cool the resistor.
"The Peril of Inverting Logic"
Tell me about it, woof.