Sim Racing Protests are Hurt Feelings Reports
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- Protest systems in a variety of racing sims were designed to punish guys who go backwards on the track or have concerning meltdowns over voice chat, but have morphed into people abusing the feature to tattle on others for the most petty and unusual of perceived slights.
The contrast between real world racing circles, and the sort of "chess club environment" manifesting in sim racing, has the potential to derail a lot of the progress sim racing has made at breaking into the mainstream. No normal person will want to race in an environment that feels like walking on eggshells, and the prevalence of using real names within the racing sim sphere can result in real-world reputation hits based on... complete nonsense. A suspension or ban from iRacing, doesn't always indicate the person has serious character issues.
This video won't change anything, but sunlight is typically the best disinfectant. Gotta start somewhere.
reports should be used for the following imo:
- being insane in chat
- actual, real, intentional wrecking, like complete ramming (and even then it shouldn't be taken too seriously)
- dumb shit like driving backwards
i've been on r/simracingstewards for a while because it helps me with understanding racecraft, but the amount of 'should i report the incident' posts are insane, especially when it's normally just getting squeezed off track or some shit. rubbing and doorbanging is racing. you shouldn't intentionally drive like an ass, but ffs we don't need to report every time we get spun out. crashes and incidents are part of racing.
People have no ability to look outside of themselves. They'll do the exact same move, dive down the inside, force you wide. But you do it the very next lap, same corner, and they're on the mic talking about how you're a dirty racer and have no decency and how you need to be banned. When they do it, it's a great move. When you do the exact move back to them, they freak out.
Just another example of why touching grass is an automatic moral good
Banging doors is a thing in gt3 racing
The 2022 GTD Daytona 24 was way more intense than this and I don’t think either Porsche factory drivers made a complaint to the stewards, media or to Porsche and I bet they enjoyed every second of that battle
Yup, don’t ever let these guys discover BTCC Super Touring 😂
Porsche likes their factory drivers feisty.
SimRacing reminds me alot like GTARP. You'll have people who are or have been actual cops in real life (or actual racers in this case) being talked down to by 14 year old Timmy for "fail rp" or "breaking a rule". It's to the point where you think to yourself "If I wanted to be tied up in bureaucratic bullshit where I have to walk on eggshells and suck off all the higher-ups, I would just get a regular job with a hierarchy ladder"
People all too often forget that it's literally just a vidya game. A Simulator, sure. A Roleplaying server, sure. But it's not real life and it never will be. It's a vidya game. Have some fun once in a while.
It reminds me of that too. People like to tell me how to drive a car when I used to race in real life and they’ve never driven anything outside of K1 speed. I see simracing as a place now where I show up race and leave. It is not a social environment for me anymore and I can live with that.
Nah their whole thing is being a sim racer...no life outside of it...and in their minds they are like the next Verstappen because they hold a top 10 hotlap on donnington park...its the internet ego...ive been a part of that but im glad i have many other hobbies and a somewhat interesting life so i dont get mad when someone takes me out in the last lap of a simrace
@@mrbungle3310 they love to get people banned. One of them made a video where he checked max verstappens iRacing stats and races and accused him of cheating on iRacing.
@@drewhalloran9 simracing is a terrible social environment unless you like debating all day.
i would almost extend that to motorsport watchers in general and even just car guys. you really have to dig deep to find some with a braincell.
@@test-tl8dt yeah I learned that last year about simracing. If I’m gonna be playing by my own terms I cannot socialize within anyone in the community about it and that’s the way it is.
There is a difference between accidentally hitting someone and intentionally wrecking someone.
Just pull the “it’s just a game” card and they’ll get triggered lol
That or "Rubbing is Racing, son"
@@octanegamer1576 that too
Tell them iRating doesn’t mean everything and oml they will argue with you until 4 in the morning
The Simon Pagenaud school of life
The difference is that in real racing, drivers create a community. They're in it together and there's a basic amount of respect between them. On online platforms, you're racing bots controlled by strangers, and that's how people often approach opponents - as strangers tasked with controlling bots for them. This isn't a problem in leagues or more tight communities.
Except for Nascar apparently, where they assault members of their "community" over hurt feelings.
Justin Yee probably has the best take on the protest system, too many people are protesting for non issues.
Imagine paying thousands of dollars to play just to get Karen'd by some loser who isn't good at anything in life
iRacing Karens needs to be a thing.
why even play Iracing at that point?
I mainly run wreckfest and Forza Motorsport leagues here and there to fill time (especially during winter months) and this video was spot on, everyone has a different philosophy on what is fair game in racing. I got penalized in a league for “hard sends into other drivers doors” not even taking anyone out just hitting them after locking up the brakes in my 69 Camaro. I in a somewhat similar fashion to you have irl experience as I took rookie of the year in my local tracks stock fwd class (I think I ran into you in the cavalier groups one time) One night irl I got potentially a little to greedy and accidentally dumped another car, both of us gathered up our cars and finished the race intact. I apologized to her after the race and her dad even made a Facebook post the next day defending me saying that our incident was unintentional, making note of my apology afterwards, all this coming from the same guy that was going to be buffing fenders come Monday. It’s weird how putting a virtual tire mark on someone is a cardinal sin a majority of the time, whereas an on track incident with monetary and points paying implications can sometimes strengthen friendships.
This is why I spend more and more of my time in AI races then ones against humans. If a bot doors me and punts me off in turn one, no one cares. Had a bot turn me sideways at Daytona near mid pack and cause a wreck (which I thought was cool tbh) and it's not like I care that much... I am a bad racer, but not a dirty as $%^& one like some folks out there but that's just me not taking enought time to learn properly. If someone doors me, that's ok, it happens in IRL too. The cutting the pit thing is so-so in my eyes, not enough to get a report going and I mean you only gained like 2 seconds if that. Reporting in game is nonesense and I'd almost counter that report about the door to door contact but it's probably not worth any amount of time filing.
I haven't raced or played PvP since like 9 months after Gran Turismo Sport's launched. Many games have shitty AI but it's still better than dealing with no-life fatsos and crystal-tough twinks. 🤷🏻♂️
why pay money out of your ass in iRacing when you could play fucking mario kart instead.
based opinion
I have a story you may or may not be interested in (long text so I understand if it’s tldr) Back in I think June of 2021, I did an Arca race on iracing at I think the Milwaukee Mile. (I have prior racing experience irl and sim experience from using friends accounts on iracing for a few years.) mid race I do an overtake on a Whelen Euro Series driver Miguel Gomes (who fun fact: did the Arca season opener last year at Daytona irl) Gomes cuts me off even though I’m on his inside next to him and because of that he spins. Gomes basically calls me out on chat wrongly accusing me of divebombing him. After Miguel finally shuts up, a few laps later I make the same mistake he did on someone else. (I owned up to that separate accident and after Miguel (who still took no responsibility for the accident) said “karma” I responded with (“I pulled a Miguel”) after the race I said “Great race everyone except for Miguel” and I slip in a “f-you Miguel” in there. (I’ve been F-bombed before and never complained about it.) a few days later, I get an email from iRacing notifying me that Miguel had protested me. Not only was he still wrongly accusing me of divebombing, he made it a hurt feelings report by mentioning how I f-bombed him after the race before I left the session. Think about that for a second. A professional racing driver in their early 40’s who races in NASCAR’s Euro Series got his feelings hurt because someone f-bombed him over an incident that he took no responsibility for and was told f-you because of it. Then went on a rant on said email mentioning how newer drivers like me (Miguel not realizing that I wasn’t new to iracing) should know better. The arrogance and main character syndrome on some people is just insane. I’ve raced with other professional drivers on iracing such as Indycar and endurance drivers and all of them were great to not only compete against but they weren’t throwing hissy fits and blaming others when someone collided with them.
Main character syndrome. Stealing that. Most call it narcissism but MCS is funnier lol.
@@AustinOgonoskiyou’re free to use it all you want. I’ve heard it thrown around a lot recently and have started using it myself😂
I mean, everything outside of the driving itself does seem pretty toxic and unnecessary, seems more like a case of two self-proclaimed main characters coliding, you could've just told him something along the line of "dude, I was on your inside for a pretty long time, that wasn't a divebomb at all", feeling the need to complain about/make fun of the guy is pretty childish
@@tiagobelo4965 that’s what I said to him. It’s not childish to call someone out nor was I complaining about the whole story, you don’t hear Dale Jr calling his guest childish on his podcast for calling someone out from an accident that happened years ago. Thought that it would be interesting to mention the story. I’m not here to call out the guy, just mentioning something that happened. There’s a difference I also don’t look at myself as a “main character.” If anything Tiago, it’s childish of you to assume what you commented.
After playing devil’s advocate though, I’ll share my overly sensitive sim racer encounter.
Last year I jumped into a TCR race on iRacing. About 10 minutes in I’m battling with a guy for somewhere in the mid field. It’s all fair, all clean, he’s putting up a fair defense, not being reactionary to me sticking my nose out, but for 3 laps or so I’m sat on his back bumper looking for a clean way around.
He starts throwing reactionary blocks on me as the battle drags on. Not too pleased with him I apply some more pressure, drive closer to him, and start flashing my headlights at him (oh yeah, night race. Forgot to mention).
He gets a bad run out of a corner, then swings out into my lane as I attempt to pass. I woah up to avoid a crash and give him another flash of the lights. He proceeds to slam on his brakes, ending his and my own race then and there. I call out over the VC “Nice brake check guy”, DC, and call it a night.
The next day I wake up to an email from iRacing stating I’ve received a 2 week chat ban for excessively flashing my headlights. iRacing claims that “flashing headlights are to inform slower cars of your approach, not as a distraction.”
TL;DR, I don’t disagree with your gripes here. But better examples than what you have shown here exists.
Well thats kinda the point of the video, to get people talking and amass a series of anecdotes like yours.
oh man, that's a wonky one, I remember doing an assetto league race (I think it was the trabant cup on some weird scandinavian track) a while ago that was the exact opposite, after we'd figured out that the car had openable doors (that don't affect collisions at all) we started goofing around racing with them open, sometimes even joking about "leaving the door open for you" when a clearly faster driver was about to pass or we went in with a bad line.
Reporting needs to be reserved for intentional wrecking and complete lack of skill that results in unnecessary wrecks (ie people who can't even keep their cars on the track for a clean lap and regularly take out people due to their own inept driving ability).
In all my time sim racing I believe I have only taken the time to make a single report, the driver's actions were egregious that the individual had no place in racing online.
How many times in various discord channels do you see someone posting a video asking for opinion on an incident. Generally, 9/10 the individual asking for the opinion is at fault and then tends to get upset at those expressing that opinion.
It's a video game people... finish your race and move on with your lives.
Yeah this is more or less what I'm getting at.
The idea that in meaningless sim races for trace amounts of skill rating gain/loss, every little incident and on-track disagreement *can be* and often *is* reported + adjudicated, is a little intense for what the end of the day is a video game people are playing casually.
It's a bit like asking seasoned NFL refs to officiate a random high school game in a non-powerhouse state. These kids aren't playing for anything big, and a lot of them are still learning the game. Yes, kids who get into fights or blatant late hits, should absolutely be kicked out of the game. But there is nothing to gain from throwing a flag for holding on every other play, or blowing the play dead because the QB took a fraction of a second too long to snap the ball, or going into the stands and asking for alternate angles from the moms in attendance to determine if a WR really did get two feet in bounds during a 35-0 blowout. But that's basically what protest systems have turned into now. A complete disregard for where we are on the totem pole, to the point where it isn't fun for a lot of people on the field.
I have diagnosed autism, I’ve never been great with social interaction, and I’ll even admit to having anger management issues; in other words, I am essentially the exact demographic of the people that do this sort of thing. And yet, these forum dwellers still seem really pathetic to me. Why? ‘Cause I live in the real world. I have at least a basic understanding of right and wrong.
If I come across someone doing something clearly against the spirit and/or rules of the competition, I’ll absolutely call them out on it; otherwise, if the way someone races you hurts your ego, that’s your problem, not theirs.
Driving backwards is just good team strategy sometimes. Watch out for Million Plus...
I legit fall into that category you described early in the vid. Yet in my league I’m one of the guys who file the least amount of protests, because at the end of the day, it’s not that deep.
Also a factor in the dissonance between IRL racing culture and Sim Racing culture imo, might be because a lot of the new guys and especially the ones you described, come from the F1 fandom circle, and think that the same rules and agreements apply to other forms of racing when that’s not the case. GT3 ≠ Formula racing, you can expect a little bit of roughhousing in GT3/Touring/Stock cars cuz, they can handle it.
I mean the guy who filed the GT3 protest was running a Ferrari F1 livery, that might give you a hint as to how he thinks Racing should be done (any type of contact is a big nono)
ngl "everyone thinks these are open-wheelers" is probably the best description I've heard so far
I stopped playing War Thunder because of toxic people. Racing games, I just play against AI. I play to get away from people and BS, not seek out new people and new BS. But to each their own.
This is why sim-racing should be seen as it's own thing instead of being constantly compared to real-world motorsport. When you go into these public online lobbies you have no idea who you're racing. I'm in my 40's competitive but casual if I lose so what? I could be racing agonist a 16 or 20 year-old where winning is life or death for them. If they crash me into the wall on the final lap I'm not going to the hospital. What's the point of writing a complaint report? It's a Game LoL. If you want a fair online game or E-Sport play any arcade fighting game, Tetris, Chess or a Rally game/sim.
i can't believe chess is considered an esport 😂, you just made my day sir
I agree, kids (physically and mentally) don’t know when to take an L for hard racing. I could have made at least 20 reports in the past but I know it’s better to just move on and try harder in the next race. I get taken out in my pretend race car from a racing incident, I’ll get a drink and go again. When someone does something extremely stupid I’ll say it 20% of the time and just move on.
I don’t have money on the line and it’s not a real multi six figure race car so I like most people should which is get over it and move on.
I enjoy r/sim racing stewards on reddit because it’s what brings out the dumbest people who like to sook about hard racing and I enjoy calling out the stupidity in a smart matter to not get banned.
I have a similar philosophy. I run asphalt fwd irl, so when I get bent out of shape over getting wrecked or simply lagging out due to poor internet I remind myself that it’s not like I blew a motor or bent the frame on an irl car and I try to be thankful that it happened on a screen instead of out my windshield.
I got reported for literally racing in the GTE's a couple years ago. for context I pitted late, the leading pack pitted early and came out behind me, they never attempted to overtake and i was just driving round.... after I pitted I got reported for illegal blocking, even though we were still racing for position
There's a lot of obscure stuff in the sporting code that warrants a suspension. Aggressive blocking is one of them, starting from the pits and passing the cars involved in a T1 wreck is another.
Honestly I feel like thats just a really good example of why having different servers, or working on a league system is a good idea.
Mixing together the people who just wanna win no matter what and the guys who wanna race in a way that would have Mr.Clean needing new pants causes the problem, and if someone is the 1st kind and cant take it when its done to them they should pick up a dictionary and search for the word "hypocrite".
“Childish”
In both your examples you got off with a warning, which was the appropriate sanction IMO. It's like in F1 every driver gets a 5+ second penalty or something like that at some point in his career, every footballer gets a red card sometimes etc, in the same sense a simracer has to get a suspension once in a while, just part of the game, no big deal. I'd rather have it this way than too lenient regulation.
The sanction isn't the problem.
These shouldn't have been reported, full stop.
Context is everything, having done simracing for a few years in ACC now (Moreso in organised championships rather than just individual league races) you learn what's worth reporting and what isn't.
Some communities have newer drivers and if they make mistakes it just takes having a conversation with them about what happened and how to avoid it next time, generally trying to be supportive and not scaring them off. Sometimes it just takes an apology post-race and there's not enough harm to make it worth a report.
Sometimes though it significantly affects the race results and is worth giving/receiving a penalty for, I've had people I consider good friends still understandably report me when things went wrong, still friends afterwards. Received as many penalties as I have given/reported, shit happens and that's what the stewarding systems are for.
Just because some people aren't as passionate about it as others doesn't mean poor moves should be left unpunished or unaddressed, mistake or otherwise. If I were on the receiving end of the second incident in a championship I definitely would have filed a report. The first "incident" was a jobsworthy report to make and was definitely only worth the warning if anything.
FWIW, I am far less likely to make any reports over the individual league races because as mentioned, you can just sign up for the next one happening in 10-15 minutes, which gives you far less reason to care, usually loss of safety rating is punishment enough and making reports takes time I could be spending doing something else.
I think the collision physics in ACC do sometimes make door banging or bumps far worse, sometimes sending a car into a spin, off track or into the wall when IRL or another sim it would just be a light tap, doesn't help and does force cleaner racing to avoid incidents that are worse than they should be.
Dude I remember playing baseball as a kid was so much fun even though I was a terrible hitter. I was a kick ass center field though, but still am amazed to see that our awesome pitcher, Clayton, is now a full on MLB star. Happy for him, and totally always knew he would make it. Especially after the season we walked from the last game undefeated, with the final game seeing us 27 points up over the opps. lol Man those days taught me alot and some of the most important, at least for me were:
1- someone will always be better and more dedicated
2- another will always be better just effortlessly
3- dont let either of those facts make the game no fun
Clayton Kershaw? If so, that's neat that you got to play with a future Hall of Famer. 🙂☺️😊
@@randydubin7118 actually cant remember dudes last name ngl lol
@@randydubin7118 this was about twenty years ago now
It's one thing to be irritated by the way someone is racing you or be bitter about losing a race because of a dirty move but if you can't emotionally handle getting moved for a win (which is a concerning amount of people btw) you need to have a reality check because that's a problem that goes way deeper on a personal level, you can change that and your life will get better, it's ok to just deal with things not going your way without crying about it and trying to get someone else in trouble over it.
I feel like the whole freaking out about getting moved by someone can be simply solved (if you are in a league environment) to just remember it and do it back to them next time. If it is a public lobby just be mad for 5 minutes, then dismiss it as a shithead move and go on about your life.
I protest AI opponents
Unfathomably based.
I protest myself
@@sdothalligan chad behaviour
Yeah. Just a game. People take it way too seriously and have no idea how to cope. Agreed. This being sim racing and all, people have a bit of a higher standard.
Oval side of things has more leyway and loose interpretation of fair racing standards. No lack of crybabies, can’t argue that.
But both the virtual examples you shared? In both circumstances, 8 out of 10 times you’re gonna get penalized for that in any respectable racing series or club event.
In either (virtual) discipline, the lack of any sort of live stewardship just empowers the concerned citizens types and Karen/Kens in all the wrong ways.
I've got a few stories I'll share related to this:
1. I was running a street stock short track race on an alt account using my mouse since I didn't have access to a wheel. I accidentally click a button on the mouse that automatically acts like the steering wheel has been unplugged so the car goes straight into a corner and slightly taps another person up the track a lane. Guilty for "intentional wrecking" out of that and I couldn't argue it because it was just a light doortap that shoved a guy up a lane so I didn't feel the need to save a replay.
2. Got randomly protested in a pickup cup race for going in reverse (not backwards) on the apron after getting into a pileup and stayed out of everyone's way. Just got a warning for this.
3. One of my friends got suspended for a week without any prior warnings to his account for using the apron at Daytona RC in a Production Car Challenge race. Dude wasn't even being told that what he did was wrong mid-race nor was he battling anyone for positions.
Okay, the first one was definitely stupid. You should not drive with a mouse😂
@@NASCAR_Junk ehh it's the only instance of the "mouse disconnect" happening and I managed to get over 2100 iR with it. Just takes a bit of practice
@@ko_hankinator Jeez. Impressive. I tried using a mouse once and I couldn’t make 5 laps lol
Is this video a hurt feelings report?
Very meta.
Speaking only from an iRacing perspective, if a protest is upheld it was legit.
this can be extended to just about any game with a competitive ladder ranking system.
most of the players have never played a traditional sport of any description, they all have spectrum powers, and they don't know how to deal with ultra-competitive personalities that want to win at the game.
I’m one of those people who will do anything to win. I got destroyed for it.
My favorite-ever iRacing moment was a broadcasted Stafford late-model race where I got moved out of the way for 3rd place coming to the white flag, then watched the top 2 crash each other out to hand the win to the guy who bumped me.
I proceeded to congratulate the winner, and acknowledge that I would have done the exact same thing in his place.
But my oval iRating is only in the high-2k range, so what the hell do I know about driving standards? A *REAL* racer would never forgive such an act.
2nd clips looks like the classic case of "I'll just run it up the inside and use my opponent as backstop". I mean that was a pretty bad attempt at an overtake and you just blasted through the apex and would've understeered off the track if you didn't use the leader as a guardrail. You can clearly see the leader give you space as you understeer into him and I'd be pissed also.
Yeah it's called "whoops I locked up the brakes." This happens in racing, multiple times per race, for everybody, when battling for every position. Good racers understand this and don't take minor mistakes from other drivers personally. If it determines the outcome of a race, yeah it kinda sucks, but you're on a goddamn video game in the noob Ferrari division where nothing really matters and there's another race in 15 minutes anyways.
Spending 5-10 minutes to cut up the replay, accuse the person of doing this to have malicious intent, then writing an email to the game's staff demanding they be banned off the game, is a gross overreaction for a scenario that as a driver, you are going to deal with hundreds if not thousands of times.
Save for the very top eSports championships, sim racing is just glorified indoor karting. If indoor karting places let you write formal complaints to get people kicked off the property, because someone bumped you for position in a corner, within a month nobody would want to go indoor karting anymore.
There is a clear difference between the 2 examples you brought up. The first one is intentionally violating existing rules, if I lost out on you doing that, I’d have made a report too (I probably wouldn’t have if it didn’t matter in the end). The second report is a joke though, protesting people for making mistakes is not cool
As someone who's on the spectrum himself and also played 3 seasons of tackle football and now do SCCA Formula Vee, I have to agree. I've probably watched this video three or four times because someone finally had the balls to say any of this.
kneebon has some kind of addiction to protest people in his videos. Someone could potentially rebound off the wall, spin, collide with him in a crash, and then he will pm him good luck on your vacation. Like almost every video.
Not the first time I've heard this.
@@AustinOgonoski Kneebon is a super sensitive dude and calls anyone trolls who criticize him at all, his discord is even worse.
Kindve disagree. with no live stewards what else are you meant to do. You might have only finished 5th at Sebring but next time you might win because of it. At which point people say ("but ive always done it like that"). Anonymised reporting system is absolutely fine when people dont always know the rules of racing
Between playing sports in high school, watching NASCAR, going to local short tracks, and, while it is a joke among other racing games, play Forza’s demolition derby wannabe open lobbies, being able to handle dirty players is almost second nature to me. Sure, in the heat of the moment, it’s annoying, but like you said, give it 10 minutes and it doesn’t even cross my mind. Sim nerds really need to learn this wonderful skill of letting it go bc, surprise surprise, it’s apart of being competitive. And if you can’t fathom that, Idk what to tell you other than go out and touch some grass
Half of them can't accept it's just a video game
My friends were on a vc the other day and found someone on the iRacing forums who called himself “Batman” for protesting people even if he wasn’t involved in the wreck. Not even joking
Its a simple fact the rubbing is racing and that a difference between side by side close quarter racing and malicious intent by wrecking
In stock car racing it’s perfectly fine to move someone but on most racing sims it’s a week or more off.
Actually it's not, racing is a no contact sport and you get penalized for contact IRL 😂 You just won't see it during the race. This is true even for nascar were "rubbin is racin."
I went into turn 3 at my local dirt track a little too hard and my truck didn't turn good (entered on the bottom, didn't smash the brake hard enough(no power brake)) and hit one of the guys on my outside and bent his lower A arm. Didn't even get mad. Said "shit happens" and we were good. Tapped someone in CARB CUP (unranked iRacing race) and got suspended for a week. Tired of these sensitive people on here.
I am actually Autistic (along side of ADHD) but i dont really get what you mean by
"attracts peope of the Autism spectrum"
What has Autism to do with common sense / knowing sh before you start doing a dangerous sport?
Me not understanding it is literally caused by my Autism.
Its a simple fact that autistic people get really fixated on the stuff they like maybe to an unhealthy extent for some
A lot of guys in that realm are sticklers for black & white rules in a sport that operates in shades of grey. If it's also their first time in any sort of competition, they stop worrying about winning and hyperfixate on the intricacies of people not playing the game "in the right way."
Sports teach you that refs make bad calls and some players are various levels of dirty or have egos. By 15 or 16, you learn how to deal with that. If you don't, it's extreme culture shock that you can basically never recover from.
I have diagnosed autism (and possible ADD but it's not diagnosed so I don't wanna confirm anything) and my best guess that people with my type of autism prefer things to be very orderly and neat. We like to have a set list of rules to follow and a set schedule to be on, and any drastic deviation from those things makes us panic. Racing provides just that, both real life and game racing. We're told what cars to drive, what server to be in, what track to practice on, and are given a clear set of rules to follow for that race, so we feel comfort in knowing we won't be overwhelmed by the amount of possible choices given to us.
Of course, this won't be the case for every autistic fellow out there, but I'm sure most of them either agree with what I'm saying or at least relate to it
Idk about the reasons listed in video but I do have ADHD and believe racing attracts people with it due it the constant simulation and feedback unlike other sports like basketball where theres allot of transition time
uhh so i never took to regular sports and now you brought up a good point that if and when i get into motorsports imma have to learn to deal with thanks for doing so
I hated 85% of my time playing football but I'm so glad my parents forced me into it. You need that exposure to egos and sociopaths early on, to figure out how to navigate it. I've watched people who didn't have that experience growing up, it's night & day.
Had a situation in an AMS2 league - Velopark on the full layout, coming to the final corner i did not notice someone quickly approaching on my left, i banged doors with him and swerved quickly back to the right to give room in response, in response while going side-by-side through the last corner i return intentionally get pushed off the track and onto the yellow sausage curbs while hearing a fake "sorry" through the voice chat. Afterwards the dude follew it up by admitting in the public discord chat that he pushed me there on purpose because "can't understand why I was hit... on other hand my move was answer to your 'sportsmanship ' driving" .. so he threw a hissy-fit because someone accidetanlly hit him and had a total meltdown blaming everything on me for daring to make a mistake and hitting him. Absolutely embarrassing.
Formula 1 stewarding also don't help.
Anyway, I'm in my 40, and I can't be bothered to have hurt feelings. On LFM, I usually watch the replay if something happens. I have never reported someone, or wrote him a mean message. The farthest I go, I DM his on LFM, and just ask "Why?" or "Don't you use mirrors, or radar?" And the next line is always, "Let's hope we have a cleaner race next time. Be well." But these have to be really stupid things, like we're both on the straight, door to door, and the person suddenly drive into me off road. But shit happens. I have done this too. I got distracted by someone or something, wasn't looking at the monitor for 5-10 sec, and sadly crashed him. But I apologized to him later, because it wasn't intentional. I have never experienced "revenge crashing". In my mind, revenge crashing deserves protest, especially if it happens second or third time.
I can’t even fathom reporting someone. And I’ve had people hit me from behind at180 mph first lap after an hour of qualifying and practice. I’ve had people clearly just say fuck it and jerk full left or right first lap and wipe out everyone. And I’ve had reports on me and I race like it’s a real car I can’t afford to repair.
i remember one time i got a warning in forza of all places because i banged doors with a guy on corner exit (he ran wide and i sneaked inside), then the guy got pissed, tried to push me off but ended up crashed into a tree
bro can not afford to receive that 4x in the second incident 💀
yesterday i saw a guy brake check someone and then say he will report the guy he brake checked. amazing
There is a certain "user" on iracing who will protest you for starting last because his feelings are hurt and he has a following and no life. Have been successfully banned by this guy filing protests multiple times because he is a "pretend steward" in my mind. Not only that but the guy complains about anyone who goes 3 wide. They also are mad that people are better than them it's hilarious stuff. Oh and hard chargers are their trigger word.
Why would anyone get mad at someone else's starting position?
This sounds awesome.
@@AustinOgonoski I have about 7 protests to prove it 😂😂😂. He was even mad about me putting being banned twice in my profile.
@@JONNYGABRIEL18 Because Nick Neben HATES people starting outside of their given position. He even made a video which iRacing forced him to take down about the topic and railed another user for 15 minutes straight about it during the video. It sounded like he genuinely hated the guy.
@@AlSharptonFanatic Wait I think I got a DMCA takedown request from him because I used a short clip of him driving at the LA Coliseum as part of like, a 2 min commentary video about brakes in the Next Gen car.
How do these people have friends?
WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK
What you did was clumsy as hell though sure I wouldn't bother filing a complaint only because it looked like an accident. GT3 drivers don't push people wide like that. Verstappen is allowed in F1 though
I’m a big dirt fan i can when it’s good hard racing and when it’s intentional that wheel hop was good hard racing it happens
So, maybe protests are a little too frivolous sometimes, but what is a solution you are proposing? Protest appeals? Genuine question because at least in my lo206 league they do one protest, either confirm or deny, no appeals. Do you want it to be more real like that or something more convoluted?
Each user limited to 1 protest a month, or every 45 days. Use it on things that actually matter, and not ticky-tacky bullshit.
@@AustinOgonoskithat honestly could work. I was thinking something like pay per protest and get refunded if your protest is confirmed. Not sure either of our ideas really fix the issue because petty people will still rage protest, but I guess one per month significantly limits that amount.
@@EluneMusic Kind of inspired by NFL coaches challenges. You get two per game. Be smart about them.
@@AustinOgonoskiI'm sorry Austin, but that's a genuinely awful idea, its way too exploitable (if you know someone has already used their report you can wreck them out pretty much scot-free since other people who could report it will be saving their own) and heavily limits the usability of a report system (you are bound to catch more than one genuinely malicious moron a month if you play often enough).
Generally speaking, just making the sporting regulations clearer (if contact is allowed or not, what kind is and what isn't) and applying a shadow ban/limiter only on frivolous reporters would probably work better, though that might just be me not seeing the issues there.
We got a problem your boy Jason Jacoby is back on TH-cam
On the 70s, F1 drivers had to create the Driver's Association because the race managers won't give a crap about their security. I already pitched this on some DJ-Yee video, but we, as sim racers, have to create our Driver's Association, with transparency, so we can have this middle ground for those disputes.
Man i wonder if road rage incidents have similar issues. I get people prevent me to merge in front of them even though i wasn't driving aggressive what so ever, its random sometimes.
The reason I left Online racing was because of this. you bump and run someone boom 5 laps later your are wrecked. Shit i've passed someone just to be wrecked
don't cheat in races and people won't get upset
... You can literally be the cleanest driver in the world and people will still get upset. People of all sorts of mental states play these games. All it takes is for one person to make up some bullshit reason in their head
@@Croconator I've raced at /ovg/, I know what mental states people can be in when it comes to sim racing, but don't get upset if you get called out when you cheat, even if it's just for 5th
@@FfiFfiYwFi Holding and bad calls that let players get away with shit, happens on every play in football. We allow coaches just two challenges a game to counter-act that. The protest system in sim racing is like allowing unlimited challenges over the course of a game. The game would grind to a halt, and stop being much of a game.
Hell maybe that's the solution. You get one protest a week. Use it for stuff that matters.
@@AustinOgonoski some people are a stickler for rules and get their thrills from the aspect of performing at your best within the confines of a pre agreed ruleset, hell - look at F1 and the FIA's rulebook(s). Just like you think people should take the punt and move on, maybe they also think you should take the penalty and move on. Post race penalties aren't the most enjoyable deterrent but they also exist in real Motorsport and I think they're here to stay.
Very few series micromanage to this extent. A 15 min Ferrari Challenge race meant for noobs, being officiated as if it's an F1 grand prix and threatening bans off the game for light contact, is overkill.
Uncommon gran turismo W?
People have no implulse control
@3:20 i mean you made a mistake, and didnt give the place back, and you won because you forced another driver off the track.
im pretty detached from this topic so i have no agenda when i say you should have either given the place back, or got a penalty (which you did in the form of a warning)
If we start micromanaging mistakes or contact, there won't be much racing happening anywhere. Real racing isn't policed to that degree, which is sort of the point and why it makes sim racers' propensity to file complaints for everything, a bit ridiculous.
@@AustinOgonoski
No you follow the rules of racing or you don't race at all. Real racing is actually policed to that degree and people have to give positions back that were taking illegally. What are you even talking about 😂 They also review races after they are over and add penalties if necessary.
@@Delimon007 Found one in the wild, lads.
@@AustinOgonoski yapa, yapa. Sport is a sport because it follows a set of rules. Most of sports aim to create an environment where skill is promoted and mistakes are penalised.
If you genuinely believe that it's great when someone benefits from making a mistake then you're just delusional, Austin. If you dislike the rules, then it's your problem but know that no one is forcing you to drive. And just because you dislike them, doesn't mean you get to disobey them without facing the consequences.
I love how you made a point that can be summarised like that: it's just a game, it's just a minor mistake. Suck it up.
Well, why don't you pray what you preach and why don't you show some sportsmanship, give back the position and overtake cleanly and fairly? Is that too much to ask in a worthless race in which you're fighting for nothing?
I get that American racing culture is a bit more lenient when it comes to contacts, but mate - it's a GT3 road course racing. Not a stock cars or touring cars race. Rubbing isn't considered racing for the most part in circuit racing. Some contacts do happen in endurance racing, but for the most part they are very minor. And certainly in real race you'd face some consequences for this kind of behaviour.
Can't wait for you to call me a nerd with autism or sth, even though I've spent a hefty chunk of my life in hypercompetitive environments and with certain amount of success at that. But I guess that's what you do when your arguments don't have a leg to stand on.
@@AustinOgonoskinah bruh your pretty spot on most of the time, but you need to broaden the real world racing series you watch and you’d see plain as day that there are rules of racing in circuit racing. You cant just move a bloke off track.
Someone has never watched an F1 race.
F1 incident reports are also hurt feelings reports.
I've been playing racing games for the last 12 years,
and I stopped playing online racing in 2016 because I stopped giving a shit about multiplayer bullshit and whiners.
been much happier since, recently got into Snowrunner and so far I've been enjoying it.
Its just society as a whole, particularly the younger woke generation. To many people are oversensitive, trouble is society actually encourages it. Everyone wants to win, and their is nothing wrong with that, but being a good sport is also part of that. Play hard but in the spirit of the game.
Why not be a gentleman racer?
That won't win you races bud.
I mean he didn’t do anything wrong there he wheel hopped it. That’s just racing. Racing is a contact sport dude.
rubbin is racin
@@meerkat5818 yep. But sim racings mentality is like what was said in days of thunder “if you as much as touch I’m gonna black flag you”
@@AustinOgonoski saying this as a "gentleman racer" (which really is just way too pretentious of a term) myself, when ya ain't in contention for the win anyways you might as well just give a little here and there to make sure everyone can have some good fun.
That certainly doesn't apply to you, let's just say a lack of speed isn't an issue of yours.
Rules are rules, just apply them equally and you won't have problems (both for the reported and who is reporting)
dude my brain is roting while watching this
This wasn’t a problem when I first got on IRacing. No they are not hurt feelings reports. The problem is everyone who grabbed a PC when all the covid money was being given out.
The first 2-3 years of iRacing were probably the best.
You played tackle football?
Autism Ogonowski confirmed???
Very short video and a great point i dont think its discussed much
Great video, watched the whole thing 👍
Although I do agree the whole stewarding system in simracing is mostly unecessary and very poorly used most of the time, you were entirelly in the wrong on both occasions shown in this video. As if it wasn't bad enough, you call everyone who doesn't see things the same way autistic haha, very credible and mature for sure.
It's okay to wheel-hop my dude.
@@AustinOgonoski Of course it is, but at that point he still had enough overlap on you to deserve some space. You basically made the corner as if there wasn't anybody racing you at all. Wheel banging happens a lot sure especially on GT racing, I'm not sure if it's worth a penalty or anything, but as I said it's understandable the guy got angry with that kind of manouver on a sim like iRacing where this is heavily discouraged.
@@Brenooliveira8989 Well that's kinda the point I'm getting at, right. Every battle that doesn't go your way or there was a bit of contact, doesn't require a customer complaint.
@@AustinOgonoski "A bit of contact/not going your way" is very different to "Being punted/forced off track with a dive bomb" though, but I get your point, as you said it was just a casual, short race not worth a protest. I just get the guy because it's iRacing, and people pay the huge amount of money they do on that game exactly to avoid this kind of situation.
How many organized sports do you know that allow you to violate the rules without penalties? You seem to be the one who supposedly somehow played sports at a high level but never learned this, much less the meaning of sportsmanship.
Holding occurs on every play bud.
@@AustinOgonoski So says the person who obviously doesn’t know anything about legitimate sports.
@@Formaldehydex I think it's you who doesn't know anything. Delusional to believe 100% of athletes in any sport are upstanding citizens that never commit any fouls that they get away with because the refs aren't looking.
@@AustinOgonoski Delusional and utterly stupid to say every football play has holding.
@@Formaldehydex Tom Brady is delusional?
www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2023/01/30/tom-brady-confessed-the-nfls-worstkept-secret-about-holding/51240263/
I have been doing this since 2005. It's been within the last 4/5 years, when a lot of money, companies and real-world racing teams have got involved, in which a lot of real-life elements, on the negative side of racing, have infiltrated the Simracing scene, and sadly, it's got worse in that time and will only get worse. This is the ultimate time for Keyboard warriors and woke garbage people to come out to shine and show their true colors. A lot of people, just cannot stand losing. Especially with the Ranking system that is in nearly all Simracing title these days.
Editing and Publishing TH-cam Videos about Being Reported are Hurt Feelings Reports
In the first one you're using an exploit, why wouldn't you get reported? Don't use exploits if it bothers you.
Second one is just racing, I agree it's bs. Surprised iRacing agreed with them.
Same argument as football really. There's holding on every play. Every lap, people are messing with track limits and doing other cheeky stuff. If we start micromanaging to F1 levels of stewarding, including people who arent in contention for the win, it's not going to be enjoyable for anyone.
@@AustinOgonoskipushing track limits is different to deliberately and very obviously cheating
1:15 lol? weird flex
Uh, I only complain when there was a serious violation of the rules. I don't even care what people say in chat 😂 If you dive bomb me from 3 car lengths back expect to get protested 🤣
And for reference I usually Quali in either #1 or 2, sometimes 3 if I get a REALLY bad run so no, I'm not slow so if someone dive bombs me I already know that they broke the rules if they did so from so far back.
Edit: That was 100% a dive bomb. I don't give a rats ass if it's "easy to do in these cars" you broke the rules, dive bombed, then punted the dude. That's NOT a racing incident. A racing incident would be if you were at his rear and lets say he over squeezed and didn't give enough space. That's a racing incident. This isn't a racing incident, you broke the rules. I would protest your ass too.
Found one in the wild, lads.
You can smell the piss bottles from here.
so, a racing incident is usually considered "a situation where two (or more) drivers have unintentional, usually significant, contanct as a result of pushing the limits of the car or their own skill" now, if you don't think that a mild bump from a lockup is anything but that, then you must either be ignorant or on some real good stuff.
Even so there are different levels to racing incidents; someone running right through the monza main straight chicane without braking because they were trying to get a pass is definitely a racing incident of sorts, but one caused by the driver's skill and knowledge being lacking which means it must be punished and the driver must be encouraged to improve their driving before returning, what austin did there is noticeably an honest mistake, a tiny bit too much brake on what is (iirc) a slightly bumpy bit of the track (which even so wouldn't happen if Iracing got of their high horse and fixed the unrealistic ABS, this is 2024 and the brakes on a current day GT could be successfully used with 0 lockup by an actual untrained gorilla)
I have to disagree. I think the demand for "clean racing" is a strength and intergral to simracing. While the report examples you brought up in the video are not worthy of reports, a hell of a lot of dirty moves are. In real life there are actual consequences for driving like an asshat, but in the sim if you'd only punish things like driving the wrong way on track and intentional wrecking, there's no risk whatsoever for pushing the boundaries. Every corner.
Can I make this corner without ramming my opponent off track and damaging my own car? Who cares, as long as it's not intentional it doesn't cost you anything. The risk vs reward is completely different compared to real life. Therefore stricter rules are required or simracing will be like forza lobbies.
That all being said, my childhood hero was Häkkinen, not Schumacher. The latter sure achieved more success, much of it by breaking the rules when it served his purpose, while the former was always a gentleman on track and paid the price for that. I wouldn't argue against somebody stating that you need to be a bit dirty if you want to win. Some people don't want to lower themselves to that level and will achieve less as a consequence. Fair play and sportsmanship is the wrong attitude for a competitor, I acknowledge that, I just can't appreciate a victory that I win by such means.
At times I've reported people for relatively minor transgressions, not because I'm furious about them, but because I know they'll be furious about getting reported.
I'm a lot more of an ass off track than on track.
That's what he says at the beginning, that the stewarding is usually good but there are people way out of line misusing the system.
real
This may or may not be related to the situation but one thing I really consider infuriating and irritating in the sim racing community is how people attempt to manipulate others with shit like "Don't buy this", "Don't buy that", "dead", etc. Toxicism has been reigning supreme for too long in this community and apparently doesn't seem to show any signs of abating due to how narcisistic people are here, especially sim racing TH-camrs. It's like they don't care what people think and in return hindering someone to even show sincereness.
Scary, isn't it?
+1
People don’t like me I’m b open xfinity because I race them too hard it’s one crybaby I won’t name. Him but he constantly will complain about everyone who races be open that raced him a little to hard and didn’t let him go
Short track racing on iRacing is even worse.
In iR, people noticeably mirror drive, and if you have any sort of run, they'll just give you the position straight up because they are paranoid of contact or 4x's. There are streams of me on iR from 2019 where I'm visibly confused by how easy it is to pass people. It felt like people just moved over for me as if I was some celebrity.
The few years of regional late models I did IRL, would have given iRacers nightmares. Under iRacing's sporting code, virtually everyone would have been banned for either jumping restarts, aggressive blocking, or avoidable contact. Just running around in 3rd-4th-5th place during a long green flag stint, was exhilarating.
Frequently going back and forth between the two extremes, is confusing, especially since the sim racers claim they're trying to emulate real life yet immediately act like oversensitive pussies anytime they experience that level of competition.
@@AustinOgonoski I just skip short tracks it’s not even worth racing people just cry and wreck each other on purpose the whole race there’s no give and take at all people mirror drive alot which is annoying at times but if your better you can kinda get past but the tire model is ass in open we just all run the bottom with the new dynamic heat on the track is a little better but the tire is still bad because running the bottom is op
But like blocking they get so mad about I don’t block because it’s kind of annoying but someone got mad at me because I was simply controlling the runs at new Atlanta it wasn’t any huge late blocks I was just putting my self In a better position to stay outfront I ended up winning but not with out all the whining
And top split is the saddest thing ever I expect this from my teenage age group it’s just the same guys crying about the same stuff like your 35-40 on iracing in the middle of the night mad because someone made a mistake and self spun
I think this video is a hurt feelings report
lol dude crying about being protested for cutting the pit lane, dont cut it then
No. Be a man and let shit go 😂 I'd hate to see u in real racing.
It didn’t matter in the grand scheme of things nor is he crying about it
So you got caught violating rules and overtaking by using the other car as a stop block and are now mad about it? And your excuse is that you either make the same mistake in real-life or you actually think that this is a legit way to overtake?
It sounds to me like you are the one needing to touch grass, if enforcement of rules leads to such a video.
The idea that minor rules infractions in a 15-minute Ferrari race on some video game, require official complaints forms and a live steward to offer adjudication as if this is an F1 Grand Prix, is absolutely absurd. You must be fun at parties.