Why Weigh Your Espresso Shots?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Josh from Seattle Coffee Gear explains the advantages of weighing your espresso shots vs measuring by volume.
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The moment where he was surprised by how excellent the espresso was XD Love it
Thanks Josh, I weigh and time my shots with a Brewista but have been pulling shots with the volumetric dosing on my Breville Infuser. I couldn't understand why my shots kept weighing around 50g. Now I understand why.
Hahahaha i love it when your surprised how good your coffee shot was! great work.
I think I'll start doing this when I retire. For now, not so much. I weigh the coffee to 14 grams though. At least I'm not totally off the reservation.
so, the main difference between the two of these, is for people who cant see the difference between 52g of espresso and 36g of espresso? wow... lol...
I don't see how comparing an attempt at pulling a 3/1 shot and a 2/1 shot using different methods helps...
My understanding was that the first example was purely to demonstrate how different the mass can be at the same volume, not to exemplify an ideal extraction. Then he moved on to demonstrate an actual extraction using the recommended "by mass" approach, which although outside the standard extraction time, apparently resulted in a great shot.
What I took from this was that there can be a significant weight, and therefore flavor profile, difference between 2 shots of 40mls that are visually identical. Conclusion: weight (mass) is a more dependable factor in manipulating the characteristics of your coffee consistently than volume - which most home and professional baristas have traditionally used.
@@robertburton8069 that’s what I got out of it too. I find the 1:2 ratio tastes better to me. And that’s what counts!
great video
elon musks cousin
All of this is confusing...I have always seen that you need to get 2oz of espresso out in 20-30 seconds. So For me, an 18 gram dose to get to 2oz in 25-30 seconds yields 54g espresso output. That is a 1:3 ratio. Now if you would take the same 18gram dose and use the 1:2 ratio to get 36gram output, would that not be under extracted? or would the grind adjustment that would have to be made to get that dose out in 20-30 seconds counteract the process to where extraction is good? Is it better to do a 1:3 or 1:2 ratio?
That's my problem too i get about 55 grams yield from 20grams coffee in 25sec but i find out the right scale is 1:2 so i should get 40grams yield.. Ofc i can stop the machine when i reach to 40grams but maybe it takes less than 20 secs which it isn't right cuz i saw the brew time must be around 20 to 35 secs..... This is annoying plus confusing i know but i don't really know meh... I think the 55 grams is the right number for me cause it taste good and the 40grams yield i mean it taste good too but my brain is saying to me stop it you're wasting the coffee... The best example also shown in this video: You can see around 28 seconds of the brew with 52grams yield at first then again same things again(again 18grams coffee and same grind) but around 17 seconds of the brew And 36grams yield!!! (it should be at least 20sec!) .
so What do you think? You think he didn't waste the coffee you think the first cup had like watery taste? If u ask me that i would say Nahhhh..
@@mz67 Grind the amount of coffee your basket is designed for; let's take 18g again as a reference. You might want to go with less if light roast as more difficult to extract the oils. So 18g in your basket. Tamp it evenly. Ready your timer and ready your scale. Start your extraction and stop it when your scale reads 36 grams (not ml, but grams). Now stop your timer. If under 25s, go finer with your grind and maybe tamp harder. If it took more than 32s, go coarser. Repeat until withing the duration range of 25-32s. Hope it helps.
You need to take into account the roast you are using. A light roast is denser than a dark roast and retains more moisture. It needs a finer grind setting. You should aim for the following: Light roast = 1:3 ratio. (20g grind - 60g espresso). Extraction time about 35 seconds. To gain the 60g espresso in 35 seconds you need to manage the grind. If too coarse you will hit 60g way too quickly. In that case change the grind to a finer setting until you get very close to those optimal numbers.
Medium roast is a 1:2 ratio (20g grind - 40g espresso). Extraction time approx 27 seconds. If time is more or less change grind accordingly.
Dark roast is a 1:1-1.5 ratio (20g grind - 20g/30g espresso (I prefer 1.5 ratio)). Extraction time approx 20 seconds. Change grind setting accordingly to get those numbers.
@@neo1795 Neo you thought me a lot in minutes. Thanks a lot. Can we communicate in anyways through apps if possible perhaps you could teach me a lot?
question - so first pull of 60mls is around 30 second extraction while second pull of 2:1 is only around 18 seconds . Is this ok even though the " ideal " extraction time is meant to be around 25-30 seconds ? Should you be adjusting grind to get a 2:1 extraction in 25-30 seconds ? cheers larry
Yep. 20-30 seconds is still a good starting point, with taste being your best guide for dialing it in further.
@@SeattleCoffeeGear This is confusing... so are we supposed to aim for the 60ml (60grams) or 36 grams?
@@bigglyguy8429 Traditional meet modern. Traditional Italian 2 coffee recipes are 14 grams in 50 to 60 mls out, or 50 to 60 grams out in 20 to 30 seconds. To use 18 grams in and yield 36 grams out you have to grind finer to slow down the shot, you are essentially reducing the amount of water, increasing the percentage of dissolved solids and concentrating the flavour. You would still aim for 20 to 30 seconds. Some people reduce it even more, such as with a 1:1 or a 1:1.5, others might go for a 1;2,5 or 18 gram dose in and 45 grams out or a 1;3 etc..My issue with the modern approach is that when the layer of crema absorbs into the espresso after a minute, you are left with less volume, and it seems like too little, especially if splitting it for 2 coffees. You can see the liquid in the 36 gram shot glass was just over 1 ounce or 1 shot or the 30 ml mark. It seems too reduced to me, or too much of a ristretto, especially if making 2 drinks like 2 5-6 ounce cappuccinos. Maybe I am wrong, I'm sure it tastes amazing, but it could be that I like a darker roasted coffee which doesn't require this approach to be more full flavoured? I also think that the majority of folks brewing at a 1:2 ratio drink doubles such as with the Cortado or a Caffè Latte.
Really love the way you guys refresh your content! Admittedly I miss Sundays with Gail though. Anyways, glad to see Josh and I enjoyed this informative vid.
What an honest reaction to good coffee :)
I just want to make a latte at home this is so many steps 😭 I’m so overwhelmed I don’t have a freaking coffee scale
Make coffee that you love! I love it. Thank you.
So how long did it take for that 18gr dose and 36gr yield shot? Or time is not that important? Or you didnt care bcs it was the 1st try bcs u knew it was between 25-30 seconds?
Also in another website they talk about 20gr dose to 60 gr yield, why? Different type of roast?
Totally newbie here
I was just thinking the same thing. I hope he gets back to your question.
I'd love to have an answer to that as well. My Rocket user manual suggests a double shot espresso at 60ml, but every 3rd wave coffee shops aims for a 2:1 ratio, so like 18g to 36ml of espresso with a 28-30sec. The timing seems important but I don't know why.
I don’t think you address the biggest thing. You didn’t get anywhere near 2oz. You should show people how to do it by weight but still end up with 2oz. If that’s not possible then wtf do all these parameters mean anyway? You’re making two different things.
That was too short and under extracted surely at 17 seconds? shouldn't you grind finer to get 25-30 secs at 1:2
so 2:1 is for a single shot right? how does it work with doubles? go 4:1 in a single glass? 2:1 into 2 glasses, or go time/volume based?
I'm just getting into specialty coffee and I guess I got a bit confused about milk based espresso drinks. Watching and reading about the World Barista Championships I noticed that a 150 ml cappuccino should be or is made out of a single espresso made from half of a 20-21g dose. In other videos I always see the 2 oz. espresso and for a 5-6 oz. cappuccino. So, if dosing by weight (which, if I understand correctly is the way to go?) how should one make a proper cappuccino?
One small note- most of the weight is not due to dissolved carbon dioxide but the dissolved coffee solids in the brew.
I heard it as the CO2 was what made it lighter alongside an equal volume of water.
So for a lighter weight grind coarser?
Woop woop, after a few try's, I think I am now getting a better espresso shot with my elektra. There is a bit more wastage in my drip cup as I have to swap over, but I have a happier wife now!
what i dont get is... measure by wheight you get 36grms out for a normal double shot (thats about 1.27 oz right? im from europe), but when you measure by ml people usually take a 60ml normal double shot... thats about (from what i see in video) 52grms and thats arround 1.8 oz... so what is the real normal espresso??? because you have a 1:2 ratio in one side and a 1:3 ratio in the other... im from portugal and from what i have seen a 1:2 ratio is way too short of a coffee... (even for italian standards)
Evry basket got different grams in it right? If the portfilter basket is 6g so its 6g of coffee aswell? And it shud gives 12g of espresso coffee?
You tare the basket/portafilter to zero. 18 grams ground into the basket, then extract 36 into your cup. Time how long it took, 20-30 secs, taste it.
Very cool. Never tried that!
No reference to how long the shot took to pull
OMG, finally got the answer & explanation that I've been looking for ! Thank you
What is the deference betwen 36ml and 60ml double espresso?
He said 36gram not 36ml! weight and volume are two different things. 1g water is equal to 1ml of water but for coffee its not. Use weight to get consistent results
Is the 36 grams out determined by seconds? I heard it should be 30 seconds. Is that true?
"I brew both ways."
New to me, will try that. ''Tis true though. I have brought a blend twice in a row, and it tastes different. One question, my Electra filter holds about 8g of coffee, as it's quite small, so should I ignore the timed method and try for 16g of liquid?
Ooh, nice machine! Yes, the 2:1 ratio is a great starting point even for smaller volumes. Some lever machine users like pulling shorter ristretto shots, so you could also try a smaller ratio and see what you think.
Seattle Coffee Gear . Ok so when the reservoir is full, it dispenses 28g off coffee, yet I don't think can fit more than 11g of coffee in portafilter... need to work on this a bit more...
@@SeattleCoffeeGear sir how i fix bubbles exprosso plz reply
Good job mate
I would have sworn it would weigh more! Is it possible to get a video of dialing in shots in superautomatics? Thanks!
Great video! Won't the coffee weigh more since you place the portafilter on the scale?
great videos guys!
I have an old style pressurized portafilter in my estro profi (really old style). Any idea of the grams capacity this was designed for? I imagine it's the same capacity of the later pressurized saeco portafilter but don't know for sure.
Odd, Starbucks never seems to weigh their shots...LOL
The 36 grams includes the crema right?
Yes
what's the plate you're using while weighing the portafilter? Do you sell them?
1337Sauce - I'm referring to the black piece that the portafilter is resting on while being weighed.
They come with coffee scales...
It's probablly one of these: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016C2OBE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&psc=1&linkCode=ll1&tag=low06-20&linkId=72068174b500ee5b08c29f7a846bcc97
How much millimeters contains a espresso shot?
I'm not convinced.
At 3:36 the espresso has had a chance to settle, and clearly shows approx 50ml to the liquid line.
The water shows approx 55ml negating the meniscus. He quotes an 8g approx difference, however we didn't see the water scale zeroed - if it was then it would have shown 55g - as water weighs 1g per ml.
I don't understand that 1-2 rule mentioned.
Does he mean 18g of coffee for a 36g shot? Isn't that insane? 18g is a big double dose so it should be around 60g for the shot?
This is why I don't typically talk about shots or ounces when talking about espresso. It tends to lead to confusing terminology.
An espresso typically is 1.7 to 2.3 times the dose. The reason why is because you typically can get the most ideal flow rate at that ratio with the typical ~9bars of pressure on most machines. The only time you get close to
My guess is that older grinders could not successfully grind fine enough and machines could not build pressure high enough when the terminology of shot was introduced. Also most baristas were bartenders so the terminology for a shot of liquor was brought over to espresso.
Popular lever espresso machines could only force through 2 oz of water.
Love your videos, guys. Quite helpful for us newbies.
I'm confused about the general rules, tho. I know these are starting points and it ultimately boils down to taste, but.
Using a dose of 18g:
Volumetric method should yield ~2oz (60ml) in 25-30 secs.
Weight method should yield ~36g in the same 25-30 secs.
You would get dramatically different results. Far less volume with the weight method. More like a ristretto? You'd have to decrease particle size to slow down the flow, to achieve 36g in 25-30 secs. Totally different dynamics.
What am I not getting here? With the large difference in volume, how can both methods be "right"?
SpaghettiToaster I have the same dilemma! So what exactly is the answer? A double shot portafilter gets 18g (Breville) and how much ml do I have to obtain from that in total? Two ristrettos or two espressos in terms of volume?
18g should have 36g of espresso.
Just to clarify 18g of coffee grounds extracting 36g of espresso is a 1:2 ratio.
Awesome video. It's the first I'm hearing of the 2:1 tip. Will definitely try out. What scale are you using in the video? I'm looking for a new one.
Also Josh seems like the type to try out a refractometer for testing extraction. I'd be interested in that video if it ever came around.
Thanks for watching! We're using the Brewista Smart Scale II -www.seattlecoffeegear.com/brewista-smart-scale-ii
I never have this much crema
thank you that was interesting and will certainly be trying that at home 😊
what basket size are you using?
This makes no sense
HOW MUCH WATER
Can you do a top-three of thermometers
Love the teaching. The way he raises the tone of his voice on the last word of every sentence is quite wearisome though.
Is this a regional thing?
Damn you now I can't unhear it
love the snark, but it's bastardly
Not regional.
You know in Italy they judge by eye and intuition, no need for scales
This is MURICA!
At some point, one is certaintly aware how much one's favourite coffee yields, and eye and intuition will do the job. Until then though, a lab journal and a scale (or the oversight of an experienced barista) are certainly going to be useful. Brewing coffee truly is an art, which means that there are many, many variables to consider, and a lot can go wrong.
Josh is so adorable as well a knowledgeable. Loved the reaction after tasting his shot.
ha ha I did too, actually. Was wondering if anyone else did.
Hello, I have one group rancilio epoca. Double shot is about 14 hours of espresso but output volume is 2oz, weight around 40g.
What should I do in this situation?
Should I get a 18g basket or reduce the volume of shots so that 14g yield 28g output.
Himanshu Motwani Q
Very nice video, thank you! I guess it would be great to show what difference makes WDT technique on shots because it's clear that espresso flow was quite unstable due to poor distribution of coffee.
It's probably more practical to work backwards from 2oz, since that's a double shot. 2oz of water is ~54 grams. Using your ratio guide, 1:2 = 27 grams of coffee, 1:3 = 18 grams of coffee. If you grind to reach 25-30 seconds with either ratio, you should be close to optimum. You can test your taste by going from strong to lighter or light to stronger with the dose and consistent timing.
To reduce mess, I grind into a paper cup on a scale. As a funnel, I cut off a paper cup's bottom so the cup just fits inside the portafilter. Dump coffee in. Level. Tamp. Done.
Josh your technique could use some work. Tamping whilst polishing drives me mad!
his tamping is terrible
Wow. Critical audience today! He indicates that he got a really good shot out of it, though, so it must not be that bad, eh?