For me the analysis goes thus: 1. 1x systems have too small a range. Therefore a front derailleur is necessary. 2. Once you have a front derailleur you might as well have three rings to have a good range while avoiding huge steps. 3. if you have a 2:1 ratio big/small at the front, a 3:1 ratio at the rear is enought to give a 6 ratio overall. 11:34 does that without an extreme derailleur. 4. As per another post you use the big and small chainrings only with the 3 extreme cogs, so keeping chainline straightish. 5. 9 speeds at the rear is a good number. 9 speed gear is easy to find. 3x9 triples are the sweet spot for me. Inexpensive with easy to get parts, and easy to use. So good it is very hard to improve upon.
One day, about 30-40 years from now for most of you watching this channel, you will begin to realize why this is such a good idea. I’m 75 and it really doesn’t matter much here at my home in Florida, but when I travel to hilly states, I would appreciate some lower gear choices in a 2x. I could go to a 3x but a 2x geared for my ability would simplify things and save a few ounces.
Russ, this is why I love your channel. Well thought out practical solutions without trying to be NASA. Real world stuff, tried and tested with your own investment and your own legs. Thank You!
Being somebody who is only recently getting into cycling as an adult, this sort of wide low double chainring setup is exactly what I've conceptually thought about and want to setup. Basically, just use as a 1x, with an extra super low climbing chainring. Thanks for pushing the more reasonable side of cycling friend :)
I ran a "mountain double" crankset (38/22) on my trail/all-mountain bike, and it worked great on almost every kind of terrain I encountered. The big ring was large enough to reach high speeds on flat ground or pedal comfortably on mild descents, and the small ring (combined with an 11-36 cassette) offered some very easy gears for climbing up steep gradients. This setup was kind of the extreme low end of wide-low gearing, but it was perfect for the type of riding I did at the time.
I'm in love with 9 speed system because of it's flexibility. You can combine any 9 speed cogs of any type of cassettes. You can have nice Shimano Sora drop bar shifters, nice steps and variation and still have triple chainrings. Also there is possibility to make some 14-52t cassette if you want lower gearing without sacrificing efficiency with some 9, 10 or 11t cogs. If you travel somewhere in remote area, you can slap any 9 speed rear derailleur and it will work (except very old dura-ace) also if you bend that thing that holds cable bolt of 6,7,8 or 10 speed derailleur, you can alter cable pull enough to get to next good bikeshop with having anywhere from 7 to 9 working gears.
Agree, 9 speed is really good to work around with. Especially if you like to mix up MTB and road components. For Shimano parts I do feel there is quite a drop in build quality between 10 speed and 9 speed, which is a bit of a shame.
@@markachternaam5207 But you can find old deore xt and tiagra rear derailleurs who have better materials and microshift have their rear derailleurs for 9 speed that are compatible with all 9 speed shifters.
@@analbumfromhell1842 that’s true. Unfortunately it’s not only build quality, it is also spec. For example finding a Shimano 9 speed derailleur that supports a bigger sprocket than 36T is actually quite hard. Nonetheless, agree with your sentiment. 9 speed is cool, and probably easier to deal with for most.
@@markachternaam5207 I was running shimano Sora that is only up to 32t with derailleur extender thingy in snowy winter months with 12t-42t 1x 42t setup and it was good together with 175mm long cranks it gave enough torque to plow through snow that was like 40cm+ deep. On a old USSR road bike with 700cx40 in the back and 29x2.00 in the front.
Ive been using a 1x for two year and just recently switched to a 3x7 bike. And i honestly love it. I use all three chainrings way more than i thought i would. I think the key is really good shifting to be able to dance between all the gears.
Fully agree. 2 x is the sweet spot for me, too. Personally I prefer the compact crankset layout 50/34 or 48/32, but the idea is the same and to my knowledge it never was out. Shimano's GRX offers just that. Or you just repurpose an old 5-arm 110mm BCD MTB crankset - there is all kind of rings available for this format.
But the larger ring as noted in the stream are not "shifting" outer rings. I will take a look at the shimano set you reference here. I would need an adapter for my FSA set up. Thanks
I have different views on the purpose behind the triple. For me it not only optimizes gearing range, but also (when used accordingly) optimizes chainline. If you only use the big front ring with the three smallest rear cogs, only use the small front ring with the three largest rear cogs, you avoid both overlap and save most riding for the middle chainring and middle cogs. Keep the chain parallel to the frame for longer life and fewer mis-shifts.
Agree, i still use triple chainring on my MTB and Hybrid. Fun fact, in my country, its easier and cheaper to buy triple chainring MTB crank than dual chainring 😂 of course if you don't mind the look, weight and square taper BB 😁
@@deckyputra1281 I even use a triple on my favorite road bike. Which I have successfully done many century rides. Even the famous Death Ride, all 5 climbs, 3 different years. Triples rule. BTW, just curious. Which country are you in?
@@BrandonMeyer1641 You're right. With the road bike (10 spd rear) I shoot for 4 gears at each end before going to middle chainring. But my favorite MTB is 8 spd rear, where I shoot for 3 gears at each end. I find gear indicators helpful when trying to stick to this plan.
The mountain bike that we here in the Philippines could afford, a month's salary, is the 3x7. We are used to change the chainwheel every 2 or 3 gear changes in the freewheel. The oldies taught us that. So it is not necessarily a 21 speed but still a 7 speed, especially for the people who wishes to make their chains last the longest. The most affordable chains here is the DID worth $4.
@@thepandaman old folks 2T oil, used engine oil you ask your neighbor who drives a diesel public utility vehicle, Singer machine oil works great too. Basically what you have and what you can afford. The modern ceramic spray on stuff are usually for those who can afford it.
I've been running a 40/26 with an 11-42 10 speed run with microshift thumbies for touring, bikecamping etc for the last 6 years and its always been amazing at everything. I've been building a stash of mtb doubles since
@@markifflander8508 it is the stock XT 2× crankset with a 10sp XT cassette using Wolftooth 16t at 42t giant cog. I've setup Advent 9 speed 11-42 with 38/26 on a 110 BCD triple converted to 2x with great success
Lots of us built our first "gravel grinder"s with MTB doubles. Running 38-24 ane 39-26. I have a grinder with an old carbon FSA triple MTB crank with a 38-26 and a pant guard or caps. Light, cheap with rings available in any size from 44 to 36 and 30 to 22 small rings. Glad to see you bringing attention to these options.
I run a triple but I think it's helped by the fact it's also on our tandem, so I'm just always in the mindset of using a triple when switching between the two. Can live in the big ring for rolling tarmac, dropping in and out of middle for climbs, and just stay in middle for gravel or hillier roads, and then have the granny for horrible climbs / tired legs. I know it's an antiquated way of thinking these days, but i like having a cheapo 9 speed cassette on the back with smallish range and small jumps, with the front providing the range.
I hope your right, that some one in the bike industry sees and starts making more wide-low cranksets. I took my old SR Apex crankset , 1/2 step granny with 86mm BCD, and turned into exactly what you described. I now have a 42-28 setup. Love it. I think taking old triples and ditching the high gear is the way to go.
with my old 3x MTB I used to use the middle ring 95% of the time, then only drop down to the 24t small ring when things got really steep. So yeah I this wide low 2x idea.
That was the design of the half-step with granny gearing in my optinion .... that last shift to the small granny to keep the show moving up a steep hill and to the big one for down hills and tail winds
its funny, I was watching this and thinking, "huh, 40/22 sounds familiar". my mountain bike is set up 2x10 with 40/22 and 11-36 with standard deore xt components from about 2012. I bet if you found a more mountain-specific front derailleur from the period it would shift just as awesome as mine does.
I've ran the same exact crankset, and in Asia we have quite the range of options for chainrings specifcally for these XT-modelled triples! Not sure if they're available in the US. But we got a brand called Deckas, Really affordable too! Ixf Cranks + BB : $20 shipped Deckas Chainrings : $5 Shipped
Just swapped out GRX 46/31 with the White Industries G30 cranks and 26/42 VBC chainrings - works like a charm. Great set-up and I'm still using the GRX derailleurs with 11-speed cassette.
Excellent 👌. I'm glad to see that others landed on this setup too. I learned about the 1/2 gear with a granny from Sheldon Brown's website. My bikepacking setup is the Amazon crank with a (22,38,42) and Microshift 9 speed Advent paired with a 11-36 Bibibike (Amazon) cassette. I'm totally in line with these ratios but just love the "Just right" the half gear offers (shifts really sweet too with the two large rings so close). I call it the "Alpine Zipper". Keep an eye out at your local COOP for chainrings and you can have hollowtech 2, a clutch, and sweet ratios for less than 300$!
I've realized I don't miss the 50x11 when I don't have it but I do use it on my gravel bike that has 700cx42mm - which is now basically my road bike these days. I'm really happy with the Velo Orange 46x30 I put on my 90s MTB.
Lots a good creative ideas here, trouble is always the front derailleur, lots don’t do well with bigger than about a 12 tooth jump and still be smoothish
I put my old mtb 3x9 drivetrain on my commuter and bikepacking bike as an upgrade to the old 3x7. I love it. For someone who likes cheap replacement parts and a massive range it's perfect
Great video. I have been using an early nineties Suntour Micro-Drive triple as a double on my '94 Bridgestone XO-3 for over 20 years. It is currently set up as a 30-42 with a 11-34 9speed cassette. As you point out Russ, this lets you stay in the big ring most of the time.
This seems like a great option! With others here I have generally run a 110/74 triple as a wide-low double. I’m sold on square taper so that limits what modern options I can get. Great video!
Spa cycles in UK sells a Super compact double by replacing outer ring of a triple with aluminium chain guard. They do many combinations (46/30, 44/28, 42/26, 40/24). New Albion do something similar with their 42/26.
Makes a lot of sense. Just went 1x this year, and although it simplifies maintenance, I’m afraid I won’t have enough climbing gear without big gaps in the middle rang where I ride most of the time. Thanks. Great option
I never got rid of all my 5arm cranks, having turned them all into 2x, I use them in all my uses and I always tour on square tapers for dependability; worry free in world locales. In looking back you will find a multitude of solutions already banged out and working perfectly, and time proven. Thanks Russ for reminding and enlightening everybody!
I absolutely love this. I have a 3x9 currently, but I don't like my triple crankset for the same reasons you mentioned. With the lack of wide low cranksets, I was going to use a 46/30 with a wide range cassette, but now you have opened my eyes up to more options. Thank you Russ!
I have been running this setup for years, I had 40/25 and 36T cassette on my gravel bike - for two reasons I am old and I have big hills on my neighborhood fitness loop. Now I am even older and run 40/22 and 50T cassette on a full suspension recumbent trike. I need the extra gears because the trike weighs 50lbs - but rides like a Cadillac. Getting it to shift correctly was actual rocket science.😁
I have been doing this is since 2012. I first ran a 44/30 using a triple as a double. I later Used an IXF crank to run 38/22 on 10 speed setup. Basically I find it best to have the big ring do 90-98% as if it was a 1x then have the small for hills or loaded riding. This is why it was called Dual Range (I think the late Sheldon Brown coined that name). I also run a 44/26 using a TA chain rings (50.4 bcd crank = TA/SunXcd/VO). Soma Fab now have a 94bcd crank to run46/30 too
You talk great sense for the majority of riders. I myself have arthritic knees, I am heavy and live in WV. The climbs are short and steep here. I have been messing with gearing trying to get the sweet spot and the 2X 10 speed does it. A GRX 30-46 with a 11-42 cassette on my Crosshairs. Gives me a nice range and I have to admit I lost some performance due to chain length. I installed a road link and run a 105 rear. This gets me up the climbs without standing since I cannot stand and pedal anymore because of the knees. You do good analysis for us that just enjoy riding.
you can do the same with a 110/74 BCD triple and rings from Specialités TA. smallest ring you can get is 24t. just mount a slightly wider square-taper BB and you're golden. chainguard in the outer position for aesthetics optional.
chainguard is not just aesthetics but helps to keep chain in place, shoe laces from getting caught, and the need to find shorter chain ring bolts now that the big ring is removed.
@@carlosgaspar8447 For the shoelace problem you can tie them behind the tongue and tuck the laces into the sides of the shoe. Some running shoes are shown in the product pages tied this way.
I think it's great that you're showing us some good options for wide gear ranges. Especially reasonably priced ones. But I'm personally really really happy with my GRX setup. It gives close to 100 gear inch range out of the box with really really nice shifting and no hunting around for odd parts. And it seems to hit my (ymmv) perfect sweet spot of gear range on my bike with my preferred 40mm tires.
Thanks so much for making this video. I love these wide/low cranksets, and I really don't understand nobody is making these. Your hack of that triple is supersmart, and relatively cheap. I still have one of those Alivo triple cranks, so I am going to try that out. My setup at the moment is a Ultegra 10 speed triple crank, with 39x26 chainrings. This works very well. I think the 22t inner chainring is way too small, a 26t or 28t inner ring makes more sense to me. Russ, thanks again for sharing!!
Totally agree. I'm a newbie and thought the same, even going so far as to ask my bike shop mechanic as well as posting a question on an adventure cycling bulletin board. I have a three on the front and wanted to get a wide two or even just a one and asked why not. The best that I got was a shrug, an "I dunno," or on the bulletin board, being talked down to with a condescending reply telling me that I don't know what I'm saying. Path Less Pedaled guy always tells it like it is with solid practical advice and solutions. Many thanks.
i have 3 bikes all with triple, def tend to stay in the big ring...but im more of a masher than a spinner. Yet I have learned the middle ring is more for the spinners and at the end of the day spinners are more efficient and cause less long term leg tiredness. The 22t is just for going zen on a climb on a steep climb which I love to do, when its long and steep. Gotta love the leverage.
I just stumbled on this and I think it has pushed me over the edge to try 2x for an upcoming build. I mostly ride dirt, but I'm looking at a bike that can do dirt as well as gravel and pavement with touring loads. Your frank discussion of the benefits of gear range were super helpful in thinking about my use case. Thanks!
TA Spécialités from France have a 104BCD 40T & 42T option with their chinook 10/11-speed chainrings. Not sure about the availability over the pond, but they do exist. Have mixed a Sram road crank with an old 104/64BCD MTB spider, which share the Sram 3-bolt interface. Built it up with 42/26T rings. So basically a DIY, weight wheenie setup of your crank.
Agree totally!!!! Been dealing with this for the past six months...no chainring selection. I have an '87 Rockhopper with an 11/42t 11 speed and am running a 44/28t front 104bcd. It does everything you say in your video. Be careful of the rear mech tho', was running a Shimano M5100 and the shifting wasn't horrible but it did have problems. Switched to the M5120 and all problems resolved! Keep up the good work!
I’ve been using a gx 24/36 double for a few years without a front derailleur. It isn’t ideal ease performance but I just get off and put the chain down w my hand when I need the little 24 for a big climby zone.
I run a 11-46 rear 11sp, with a 34/24 front. I think the 24 is perfect for the low gearing. I think that if I had to do it again I would have done a 36 or a 38 for the bigger chainring, and I probably will still move to it in the future.
Can I ask what rear derailleur you use? I just got 36/26 chainrings to replace a 34t 1x setup, and would like to keep my 11-46 cassette but my derailleur has a max 11-42 when in 2x mode. Maybe just make sure I never crosschain, the only difference between the 11-42 and the 11-46 is the top end of the cassette
@@teddgram thanks mate, I’ve got the xt rear Mech too, but with no Goat link, have been trying it with the setup I described above, and it’s been good. Just wanted to see what you were using and if you had any issues. The 36 is sweet spot in my case, and the front shifting is super slick, might have something to do with sticking with the 10t difference
Seems like Sugino is quietly making some options for wide/low gearing on the 24mm hollowtech spindle, which is encouraging, though it is nice that Shimano is offering the 46/30 GRX setup, too. Hopefully in not to much time, there will be lots more replacement rings popping up for these setups!
I have several of those IXF cranks and like them as a cheap option for 1x and the 2x as in the video. One bent a crank arm when I caught a pedal on the side of a rut at a slow speed last year. Just a cautionary tale that they may not be the strongest crank out there.
Setup a 3x crank 104 bcd to a 2x 44t 28t with 9 speed 11-40 cassette... cheaper chainrings, casette, crank, brifters, rds, chain, better durability due to better chainline, note that most of those i mentioned are wear and tear parts meant to be replaced after certain amount of use, so upkeep is low... i was able to tune the 3x fd to shift between the 2x chainrings... all in all, this is the most practical approach... thanks Russ for sharing this to more people...
I built my New Albion Drake flat bar on/off road adventure bike with an FSA carbon crank, 39/27, and Sram XD 10-42 in the back. With 650b X 2.1 tires, I have 17-106 gear inches. Bam. An XT 11sp rear mech shifts flawlessly without a wolftooth adapter.
I did this on an old touring bike that I restored into a casual gravel cruiser. Originally it had a triple with something like 48-38-24 rings. I took off the 48t ring and put a 40t in the middle position (with shorter chainring bolts) with a 11-32t in the back. Great range, simple setup, and a cheap mod. Works fine with friction thumb shifters. The Q factor is a little wider and it doesn't look amazing (you can put a chainguard in the place of the big ring), but it works great. There are plenty of old triple cranksets out there with 110/74 bcd rings just waiting to be turned into super compact doubles.
I use a 11 to 20 tooth rear cassete with 5 sprockets mounted on the outside of a shimano 7 speed freehub body and a 20 and 44 tooth dual chainring. I therefore get everything from a 1:1 to a 4:1 ratio with no superfluous overlapping duplicated gears. It's light and has worked perfectly for 3 years now. I cycle about 80 miles per week on average.
I came to literally the exact same conclusion for my touring bike. I also had the same problem trying to find a 40 tooth chainring, so I'm running a 38/26 with an 11-42 in the back.
I use that IXF crankset for a wide range "manual double", there are narrow-wide granny rings in 64BCD available from a company called "Stone". They also have oval granny rings if that is ones fancy.
I run Deore 10 speed - 11 to 36 rear and 38/28 front. Suits me very well but I guess would need a little lower for bikepacking etc. Cheers Russ, keeping it Party Pace 👍
I echo your comment about trying to find chain rings. I took a 3X crank set (Amazon 39.99) and dumped the small 22T ring and just run with the 44/32. Gives me everything I want in an area that is relatively flat but does have some inclines and very strong winds that make the 32T very useful. And yes, cycling industry, listen to us in the party pace crowd.
I live in a pure flat area, I usually try to do just like you for a very occasional climb (once/twice a year on this bike), I don't even put front derailleur on, I do change front gear pure manually （use my hand and a leaf). That really works. And even I use a regularly chain ring (non-narrow wide), also no problem on lose chain.
I agree with your comment about manufacturers forgetting about the need for gravel/adventure bike in regard to cranksets and double setups, but any improvement is welcome. This could be wider ranged and adapted better for front derailing which has been ignored since the onset of the x1s. Keeping a quality double ring set up will boost the wide cassettes range but also keep the weight down with one less chainring and halve the amount of gear changes needed. The best double off the shelf possible for my bike is a 46/30 front crank and 11-40T Cassette on the back. This is with a 42cm chain stay, but I'm opened to any better ideas that work.
I currently running with quad chainring setup with 24-34-42-48t rings, bottleneck here for gear range is freewheel rear hub that just limits me to 7 speed megarange freewheel with 34-14t cogs, 14t is too big for top end, and 10t difference between 34 and 24t (1st and 2nd) cogs is too big. Atleast chainline isn't a problem with quad. gear range is between 18-84 gear inched across 14 usable speeds in 28 speeds.
I discovered a Shimano ultra-low triple, 40x30x22. Basically the same as your wide-low except with a middle ring to bridge the gap. And it will work with my regular 10-speed cassette, resulting in 98.8-16.6 range in gear inches. Wish me luck!
Running a 44/30 now on a Sugino crankset, and it's awesome. Perfect mate for me with an 11-34 cassette. I'm sur la plate for the entire ride except for the steep climbs, which is where the 30T chainring comes into play.
I've been contemplating an index shifter for the rear with a friction shifter double on the front for a touring bike. Still prefer a 1x for rough gravel / light mtb. But I think a touring could beneficent from a friction / index double.
My revived 85 Nishiki is setup with an index rear, friction front. Works perfectly and simplifies things a bunch. Even my Masi Giramoto came with an indexed 10 speed and a triple friction. It's a joy to shift and far less fiddly than a indexed front.
I’m a pretty competitive long distance cyclist (mostly Ironmans) and I figured out that if you are going over 27 mph, that’s a great time to coast and recover. You don’t need gears higher than that because you will be faster in the end if you use that time to rest for the next hill
@@sirensynapse5603 Right. The power required to go from 27 to 28 mph is exponentially more than going from 14 to 15. Best off enjoying the 27 mph and having a drink and snack instead.
A triple is awesome when one is going down hill, or have a motor to where it allows a heavier gear to be used efficiently. However if you do not plan on adding a motor a wide-Low is better than a 1by as it saves the strain the entire crankset will need to go through on a by as there is no other option, but to be more out of alignment, and doesn’t’ provide what could be a piece of leg power/leverage a High/Low will give you without having to think do I need something custom, or search out if there even is available 60+ tooth in the back to get the highest high to the lowest low. Great vid, sir. I’m subbing.
This is what I ended up with on my bike, but only from buying random used parts at a local shop. I have an SR Super Custom with 45/28 paired with an 11-42 Advent cassette which gives tons of range. It was originally one of the 1/2 step plus Granny type setups but I ditched the outer 50T ring. The only issue is the 86BCD makes it tougher to find a replacement ring for when these vintage ones wear out.
For a gravel build, I bought a deore m6000 triple that was 22-30-40 and simply removed the 22. Picked up a 28t ring in case I need more bottom end. Running a deore triple front derailleur which can handle 17 tooth gaps. 11-42 rear and a long cage XT der. On my backpacking bike I run a 24-34 double with a 11-50 in back for 14 low end gear inches and I definitely use the ultra granny in the high Rockies. I saw this crankset but with the need to buy rings, the Deore was about the same price. Plus Shimano.
I cannot believe you just posted this. I am looking for exactly this. I currently run a 46/30 FSA 30mm megaevo crankset. After tons of research (for touring and bike packing) I concluded that a 28x42 double with a 11-36 rear cassette 9 speed would be near perfect. I could not find this double. I am yes, an older rider looking to still cycle tour. But even 10 -20 years ago, you do not use the 11-12 13, etc to the extend you use the upper gears if you are in the 80-90 cadence range. Thanks so much. I will take a look at your ideas and the other comments below.
Totally agree I've been using 42/28 sram front 11/36 back for years its been great. Trouble is the aluminium spindles worn now and getting a replacement is going to be difficult
After two years of tweaking I've ended up on a 40/22 with custom 12-28 cassette. 10sp cassette is 12,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,24,28. Love the spread of 1t jumps when on the flats and slight inclines. Similar to what U mentioned, I dump it into the small ring when finding something steep to hit. Crank is the Easton EA with the narrow Q, with RaceFace cinch spider and TA Chinook 2x rings. 10sp Sram road shifters with Sram mtb EA derailleurs plus clutch. Can always tweak the low end of the cassette if required.
Here in the flatlands of Florida I run an FSA Tempo Adventure crankset that uses 46/30. On the back I have 8 speed. I ride it just as you describe, spending most of the time in the big ring and dropping to the small ring for climbs (bridges) and sometimes going off road. In a hillier environment I'd want the lower range that you're showing us here.
Dude it's crazy I had no idea that these cranksets were capable of this!! I have 3 of the ixf cranks and I ran outside and looked and 2 of them have the smaller holes drilled so I can throw those 64bcd ring on them. Life-changing video!!!
I have the similar set up. 28/48 front 12-32rear. I have all the gears i need without all the problems that come with 1x. The peace of mind that comes with knowing that i have the easiest gear for me during climbs and still not losing the hardest gear for the road is so satisfying. Oh and one of the reasons people get BIG PLATE CHAINRING is to have the best chainline possible when you are in your fast cruising speed on the road, the difference between being in your last cog at the back vs being in a cog that is inline with your chainring when in fast cruising speed is worlds apart. At least for me that is one of the reasons i have that 48 and maybe get 50 in the future. And of course with big chainring you get the best fast cruising speed chainline and still have that last cog for the occasional/ fun/when boredom strike sprinting, because sprinting with a very fast cadence like spinning a small gear is not fun at all. 😂
Sounds good to me! I'm 72 and hardly ever use the big ring on the front, all I want are some lower gears. I ride with my daughters up and down hills here in Beaverton, and they stay in one gear of the whole time. Meanwhile I'm using all the gears in low and middle and wishing for a lower one... I do pass them going down hills though.
Currently settled on my 40/26 paired with 11-46 9spd casette set up...and yes the 40t chain ring is "narrow wide"...but it shifts...maybe coz its a budget ring so it doesnt really hold on to the chain as its supposed to 😅
Yes! I too have been so confused about why this isn't more of a thing. I have been running my bikes for yearrrrrs on a version of that. I just called it "kick-down" gearing, as I never bothered with a front derailleur. As you mentioned, one mostly operates in the larger ring, so I would just use the granny gear for camping or obvious climbs in which I would "kick" the chain down into the lower ring. Its a bit of a nuisance to get it back up into the large ring cause it has to be done by hand, but it doesn't bother me and is so infrequent that, for me, has not justified a front shifter.
Long live the wide step double! Great stuff as usual. Russ, you are coming full circle to your retrogrouch roots (have you given the new Sugino OX series another shot, yet?;) I've been experimenting a bunch lately on the triple crank conversion you mentioned. But with one big difference: why not stick to good ol' square taper in 110/74bcd? If you aren't going to use a 22t granny, there's no reason not to ... PLUS: this approach fixes both of the downsides you pointed out. With a triple crank (I like Specialized Flag, Shimano 600 series, etc.) on a 116mm spindle even 113mm depending on frame clearance, you get a q factor of ~157. And if you want a wider q? No problem! Just go for a wider spindle. The advantage of square taper is the adjustability. Lastly, the 110/74 bcd has been around for decades and chainrings are much more widely available. Yet another point for how bike tech hit its peak in the 90s :) in terms of useful gear range and cheap, widely available rings.
The Suginos are great. To my knowledge they aren't in production or readily available anymore. I don't have a problem with square taper, but the INTERNET always bitches and moans about "outdated technology" so I decided to go out of my way to find a "modern" crankset :)
@@PathLessPedaledTV down with the internet!! I wonder when we'll see the correction from 'stiffer is better PERIOD' to 'no, wait, this actually rides better huh'. Personally I switched from Hollowtech to square taper because I just got tired of servicing bearings. Square taper just goes and goes and goes... I love working on bikes but I don't know any fellow wrenches who love servicing bearings you aren't technically supposed to anyway. And the few extra grams? My 42-46t chainrings save me some vs the 50-53, right? 🤣
I have the same rear set but a 32-22 front. Gives my old legs a nice low gear plus the tight ratios. Low gear same as a 1x with a 51 tooth cassette. If I use my 11-42 cassette I have the same as a 61 tooth 1x!
I'm in the middle of a drivetrain replacement, swapping a 3-speed hub for a 1x11 configuration. I was initially keen on adding an extreme wide/low on the front, leaving the hub and brake on place. My shop talked me out of it, and I think he was right. Reasons were that 1x is less of a reliability/maintenance headache, that the price of the two conversion routes isn't vastly different, and that extremely wide ranges on the rear are now available. Ended up going with 38T on the front and 11-51 on the back. So a little short of a 40T at the top end, and not quite cargo-bike gears at the bottom. When it's done I'll take it on a short tour and ... see what happens!
(That's not meant as an argument against your points in the video, BTW; I was just walking through my own flirtation with a wide/low crankset in this specific weird context.)
Great Video! I just grind the teeth off the big ring on a triple and it serves as an excellent bash guard. So I've been doing the same thing but in a heavier and cheaper way. ;)
Another thing I discovered: if your budget won't quite run to a Shimano GRX chainset, they also do a 46/30 in the budget Tourney range for little more than a third the price (GBP32 vs about 90 for the GRX). Just sharing this with you as I stumbled across this by chance; I never even knew Tourney did doubles never mind a 46/30! I used this to lower the low gear on my gf's gravel bike from 34/27 to 30/36 for less than GBP100 total (including 12-36 cassette and Alivio mech). Granted it probably doesn't have the longevity of GRX but if it gets you moving that's good, right?
@@jpk91 That's a very good question! I put it on a 9-speed bike and it ran fine - I don't own anything above 9-speed so can't really speak for that. I was aiming the comment at 'cyclists on a budget' but should have made that clearer, sorry!
For some time I've been running the SRAM GX 2x11 setup on my bikepacking rig. The cranks have 38 and 24 chain rings and since I've switched to the SRAM XD drive, I'm running a 10-42 cassette, giving me almost exactly the range Russ is trying to achieve. This is, however, on a flat bar bike. There are some after market products, that I think Russ has previously covered, that would allow using drops and this group set. My SRAM GX has proven to be reliable and easy shifting after several years of heavy usage. This bike came with a 1x setup and I just didn't feel like it had the range I wanted for bikepacking. Enough low to grind up steep grades with a load. And enough high to spin along on long flats and downhills.
Wholeheartediy agree. Just converted my road bike to the IRD 5 bolt(96bcd)46×30. Perfect for almost everything and keeps the q narrow like a proper roadbike. Soma sells the ird stuff. Highly recommended
Oops, didn't mean to sound roadieccentric. It's just what I've been riding lately. Grew up riding the 80s 90s mtbs and still consider the bridgestone XO a wonderful thing
For me the analysis goes thus:
1. 1x systems have too small a range. Therefore a front derailleur is necessary.
2. Once you have a front derailleur you might as well have three rings to have a good range while avoiding huge steps.
3. if you have a 2:1 ratio big/small at the front, a 3:1 ratio at the rear is enought to give a 6 ratio overall. 11:34 does that without an extreme derailleur.
4. As per another post you use the big and small chainrings only with the 3 extreme cogs, so keeping chainline straightish.
5. 9 speeds at the rear is a good number. 9 speed gear is easy to find.
3x9 triples are the sweet spot for me. Inexpensive with easy to get parts, and easy to use. So good it is very hard to improve upon.
One day, about 30-40 years from now for most of you watching this channel, you will begin to realize why this is such a good idea. I’m 75 and it really doesn’t matter much here at my home in Florida, but when I travel to hilly states, I would appreciate some lower gear choices in a 2x. I could go to a 3x but a 2x geared for my ability would simplify things and save a few ounces.
Russ, this is why I love your channel. Well thought out practical solutions without trying to be NASA. Real world stuff, tried and tested with your own investment and your own legs. Thank You!
Being somebody who is only recently getting into cycling as an adult, this sort of wide low double chainring setup is exactly what I've conceptually thought about and want to setup.
Basically, just use as a 1x, with an extra super low climbing chainring.
Thanks for pushing the more reasonable side of cycling friend :)
I ran a "mountain double" crankset (38/22) on my trail/all-mountain bike, and it worked great on almost every kind of terrain I encountered. The big ring was large enough to reach high speeds on flat ground or pedal comfortably on mild descents, and the small ring (combined with an 11-36 cassette) offered some very easy gears for climbing up steep gradients. This setup was kind of the extreme low end of wide-low gearing, but it was perfect for the type of riding I did at the time.
22-36 low gear is like having a 32-51 1x low gear.
I'm in love with 9 speed system because of it's flexibility. You can combine any 9 speed cogs of any type of cassettes. You can have nice Shimano Sora drop bar shifters, nice steps and variation and still have triple chainrings. Also there is possibility to make some 14-52t cassette if you want lower gearing without sacrificing efficiency with some 9, 10 or 11t cogs. If you travel somewhere in remote area, you can slap any 9 speed rear derailleur and it will work (except very old dura-ace) also if you bend that thing that holds cable bolt of 6,7,8 or 10 speed derailleur, you can alter cable pull enough to get to next good bikeshop with having anywhere from 7 to 9 working gears.
Agree, 9 speed is really good to work around with. Especially if you like to mix up MTB and road components. For Shimano parts I do feel there is quite a drop in build quality between 10 speed and 9 speed, which is a bit of a shame.
@@markachternaam5207 But you can find old deore xt and tiagra rear derailleurs who have better materials and microshift have their rear derailleurs for 9 speed that are compatible with all 9 speed shifters.
@@analbumfromhell1842 that’s true. Unfortunately it’s not only build quality, it is also spec. For example finding a Shimano 9 speed derailleur that supports a bigger sprocket than 36T is actually quite hard.
Nonetheless, agree with your sentiment. 9 speed is cool, and probably easier to deal with for most.
@@markachternaam5207 I was running shimano Sora that is only up to 32t with derailleur extender thingy in snowy winter months with 12t-42t 1x 42t setup and it was good together with 175mm long cranks it gave enough torque to plow through snow that was like 40cm+ deep. On a old USSR road bike with 700cx40 in the back and 29x2.00 in the front.
Ive been using a 1x for two year and just recently switched to a 3x7 bike. And i honestly love it. I use all three chainrings way more than i thought i would. I think the key is really good shifting to be able to dance between all the gears.
Fully agree. 2 x is the sweet spot for me, too. Personally I prefer the compact crankset layout 50/34 or 48/32, but the idea is the same and to my knowledge it never was out. Shimano's GRX offers just that. Or you just repurpose an old 5-arm 110mm BCD MTB crankset - there is all kind of rings available for this format.
But the larger ring as noted in the stream are not "shifting" outer rings. I will take a look at the shimano set you reference here. I would need an adapter for my FSA set up. Thanks
I have different views on the purpose behind the triple. For me it not only optimizes gearing range, but also (when used accordingly) optimizes chainline. If you only use the big front ring with the three smallest rear cogs, only use the small front ring with the three largest rear cogs, you avoid both overlap and save most riding for the middle chainring and middle cogs. Keep the chain parallel to the frame for longer life and fewer mis-shifts.
Agree, i still use triple chainring on my MTB and Hybrid. Fun fact, in my country, its easier and cheaper to buy triple chainring MTB crank than dual chainring 😂 of course if you don't mind the look, weight and square taper BB 😁
@@deckyputra1281 I even use a triple on my favorite road bike. Which I have successfully done many century rides. Even the famous Death Ride, all 5 climbs, 3 different years. Triples rule. BTW, just curious. Which country are you in?
And, neatly you now have a 9 speed bike ! Mint.
I agree, I like the triple as well, but I think you can go a little further than that. Ur range is not that limited and 9 speed chains are cheap.
@@BrandonMeyer1641 You're right. With the road bike (10 spd rear) I shoot for 4 gears at each end before going to middle chainring. But my favorite MTB is 8 spd rear, where I shoot for 3 gears at each end. I find gear indicators helpful when trying to stick to this plan.
The mountain bike that we here in the Philippines could afford, a month's salary, is the 3x7. We are used to change the chainwheel every 2 or 3 gear changes in the freewheel. The oldies taught us that. So it is not necessarily a 21 speed but still a 7 speed, especially for the people who wishes to make their chains last the longest. The most affordable chains here is the DID worth $4.
I'm curious, what would be considered the go-to chain lube there? You can pay as much for lubes as you do for a chain, if not more.
@@thepandaman old folks 2T oil, used engine oil you ask your neighbor who drives a diesel public utility vehicle, Singer machine oil works great too. Basically what you have and what you can afford. The modern ceramic spray on stuff are usually for those who can afford it.
I've been running a 40/26 with an 11-42 10 speed run with microshift thumbies for touring, bikecamping etc for the last 6 years and its always been amazing at everything. I've been building a stash of mtb doubles since
How did you set that up the 40/26? I am looking for something very similar. Thanks
@@markifflander8508 it is the stock XT 2× crankset with a 10sp XT cassette using Wolftooth 16t at 42t giant cog. I've setup Advent 9 speed 11-42 with 38/26 on a 110 BCD triple converted to 2x with great success
Really was not expecting to see an IXF crankset on this channel. I've been running these for years and it's insanely good value.
Lots of us built our first "gravel grinder"s with MTB doubles. Running 38-24 ane 39-26. I have a grinder with an old carbon FSA triple MTB crank with a 38-26 and a pant guard or caps. Light, cheap with rings available in any size from 44 to 36 and 30 to 22 small rings. Glad to see you bringing attention to these options.
I run a triple but I think it's helped by the fact it's also on our tandem, so I'm just always in the mindset of using a triple when switching between the two. Can live in the big ring for rolling tarmac, dropping in and out of middle for climbs, and just stay in middle for gravel or hillier roads, and then have the granny for horrible climbs / tired legs. I know it's an antiquated way of thinking these days, but i like having a cheapo 9 speed cassette on the back with smallish range and small jumps, with the front providing the range.
I did similar recently with my 26-36-46. I removed the 46 and changed the 26 to a 22. On my first tour with it right now and love it
I hope your right, that some one in the bike industry sees and starts making more wide-low cranksets. I took my old SR Apex crankset , 1/2 step granny with 86mm BCD, and turned into exactly what you described. I now have a 42-28 setup. Love it. I think taking old triples and ditching the high gear is the way to go.
If the high ring is 44 i still want it. But otherwise I agree.
@RollinRat found the 42 on ebay..., and the 28 in England brand new. Stronglight made/ makes a crank with the 86BCD
with my old 3x MTB I used to use the middle ring 95% of the time, then only drop down to the 24t small ring when things got really steep. So yeah I this wide low 2x idea.
That’s what I found too.
I can relate to this.
That was the design of the half-step with granny gearing in my optinion .... that last shift to the small granny to keep the show moving up a steep hill and to the big one for down hills and tail winds
its funny, I was watching this and thinking, "huh, 40/22 sounds familiar". my mountain bike is set up 2x10 with 40/22 and 11-36 with standard deore xt components from about 2012. I bet if you found a more mountain-specific front derailleur from the period it would shift just as awesome as mine does.
I've ran the same exact crankset, and in Asia we have quite the range of options for chainrings specifcally for these XT-modelled triples!
Not sure if they're available in the US. But we got a brand called Deckas, Really affordable too!
Ixf Cranks + BB : $20 shipped
Deckas Chainrings : $5 Shipped
Duckas is available via aliexpress. Its more expensive than 5$ but its still a great deal compared to most US available rings
Just swapped out GRX 46/31 with the White Industries G30 cranks and 26/42 VBC chainrings - works like a charm. Great set-up and I'm still using the GRX derailleurs with 11-speed cassette.
Excellent 👌. I'm glad to see that others landed on this setup too. I learned about the 1/2 gear with a granny from Sheldon Brown's website.
My bikepacking setup is the Amazon crank with a (22,38,42) and Microshift 9 speed Advent paired with a 11-36 Bibibike (Amazon) cassette.
I'm totally in line with these ratios but just love the "Just right" the half gear offers (shifts really sweet too with the two large rings so close). I call it the "Alpine Zipper".
Keep an eye out at your local COOP for chainrings and you can have hollowtech 2, a clutch, and sweet ratios for less than 300$!
I've realized I don't miss the 50x11 when I don't have it but I do use it on my gravel bike that has 700cx42mm - which is now basically my road bike these days. I'm really happy with the Velo Orange 46x30 I put on my 90s MTB.
Lots a good creative ideas here, trouble is always the front derailleur, lots don’t do well with bigger than about a 12 tooth jump and still be smoothish
i have a 22/36 crank and i'm loving it.
I put my old mtb 3x9 drivetrain on my commuter and bikepacking bike as an upgrade to the old 3x7. I love it. For someone who likes cheap replacement parts and a massive range it's perfect
I love my triple ring for my touring bike. I don't use the big often but when I need it I have it
Great video. I have been using an early nineties Suntour Micro-Drive triple as a double on my '94 Bridgestone XO-3 for over 20 years. It is currently set up as a 30-42 with a 11-34 9speed cassette. As you point out Russ, this lets you stay in the big ring most of the time.
This seems like a great option! With others here I have generally run a 110/74 triple as a wide-low double. I’m sold on square taper so that limits what modern options I can get. Great video!
Spa cycles in UK sells a Super compact double by replacing outer ring of a triple with aluminium chain guard. They do many combinations (46/30, 44/28, 42/26, 40/24). New Albion do something similar with their 42/26.
Makes a lot of sense. Just went 1x this year, and although it simplifies maintenance, I’m afraid I won’t have enough climbing gear without big gaps in the middle rang where I ride most of the time. Thanks. Great option
I never got rid of all my 5arm cranks, having turned them all into 2x, I use them in all my uses and I always tour on square tapers for dependability; worry free in world locales. In looking back you will find a multitude of solutions already banged out and working perfectly, and time proven. Thanks Russ for reminding and enlightening everybody!
I absolutely love this. I have a 3x9 currently, but I don't like my triple crankset for the same reasons you mentioned. With the lack of wide low cranksets, I was going to use a 46/30 with a wide range cassette, but now you have opened my eyes up to more options. Thank you Russ!
I love the idea of a Rene Herse-style super/subcompact, like you say, 40Tish-26Tish, and use it mostly in the big ring with a bailout option.
I have been running this setup for years, I had 40/25 and 36T cassette on my gravel bike - for two reasons I am old and I have big hills on my neighborhood fitness loop. Now I am even older and run 40/22 and 50T cassette on a full suspension recumbent trike. I need the extra gears because the trike weighs 50lbs - but rides like a Cadillac. Getting it to shift correctly was actual rocket science.😁
I have been doing this is since 2012. I first ran a 44/30 using a triple as a double. I later Used an IXF crank to run 38/22 on 10 speed setup. Basically I find it best to have the big ring do 90-98% as if it was a 1x then have the small for hills or loaded riding. This is why it was called Dual Range (I think the late Sheldon Brown coined that name). I also run a 44/26 using a TA chain rings (50.4 bcd crank = TA/SunXcd/VO). Soma Fab now have a 94bcd crank to run46/30 too
You talk great sense for the majority of riders. I myself have arthritic knees, I am heavy and live in WV. The climbs are short and steep here. I have been messing with gearing trying to get the sweet spot and the 2X 10 speed does it. A GRX 30-46 with a 11-42 cassette on my Crosshairs. Gives me a nice range and I have to admit I lost some performance due to chain length. I installed a road link and run a 105 rear. This gets me up the climbs without standing since I cannot stand and pedal anymore because of the knees. You do good analysis for us that just enjoy riding.
you can do the same with a 110/74 BCD triple and rings from Specialités TA. smallest ring you can get is 24t. just mount a slightly wider square-taper BB and you're golden. chainguard in the outer position for aesthetics optional.
that looks like a triple ring with the big ring removed.. it is the first thing i thought.
chainguard is not just aesthetics but helps to keep chain in place, shoe laces from getting caught, and the need to find shorter chain ring bolts now that the big ring is removed.
@@carlosgaspar8447 good point.
@@carlosgaspar8447 For the shoelace problem you can tie them behind the tongue and tuck the laces into the sides of the shoe. Some running shoes are shown in the product pages tied this way.
@RollinRat "Rock Rings" are also called Bashguards. And I'm with you on the no-chinese stuff.
I think it's great that you're showing us some good options for wide gear ranges. Especially reasonably priced ones. But I'm personally really really happy with my GRX setup. It gives close to 100 gear inch range out of the box with really really nice shifting and no hunting around for odd parts. And it seems to hit my (ymmv) perfect sweet spot of gear range on my bike with my preferred 40mm tires.
Thanks so much for making this video. I love these wide/low cranksets, and
I really don't understand nobody is making these.
Your hack of that triple is supersmart, and relatively cheap.
I still have one of those Alivo triple cranks, so I am going to try that out.
My setup at the moment is a Ultegra 10 speed triple crank, with
39x26 chainrings. This works very well.
I think the 22t inner chainring is way too small, a 26t or 28t inner ring
makes more sense to me.
Russ, thanks again for sharing!!
I’ve been building ebikes with 48T chain rings, but love these videos! You remind me it’s ok to slow my roll.
Totally agree. I'm a newbie and thought the same, even going so far as to ask my bike shop mechanic as well as posting a question on an adventure cycling bulletin board. I have a three on the front and wanted to get a wide two or even just a one and asked why not. The best that I got was a shrug, an "I dunno," or on the bulletin board, being talked down to with a condescending reply telling me that I don't know what I'm saying. Path Less Pedaled guy always tells it like it is with solid practical advice and solutions. Many thanks.
i have 3 bikes all with triple, def tend to stay in the big ring...but im more of a masher than a spinner. Yet I have learned the middle ring is more for the spinners and at the end of the day spinners are more efficient and cause less long term leg tiredness. The 22t is just for going zen on a climb on a steep climb which I love to do, when its long and steep. Gotta love the leverage.
I just stumbled on this and I think it has pushed me over the edge to try 2x for an upcoming build. I mostly ride dirt, but I'm looking at a bike that can do dirt as well as gravel and pavement with touring loads. Your frank discussion of the benefits of gear range were super helpful in thinking about my use case. Thanks!
Russ. You rock man! Your channel stands apart, above, unique in the YTube realm. Love it!
TA Spécialités from France have a 104BCD 40T & 42T option with their chinook 10/11-speed chainrings.
Not sure about the availability over the pond, but they do exist.
Have mixed a Sram road crank with an old 104/64BCD MTB spider, which share the Sram 3-bolt interface. Built it up with 42/26T rings.
So basically a DIY, weight wheenie setup of your crank.
Had a 26-42 wide low on my 26er, worked like a dream.
Sram x9 11-36t on griphift
Agree totally!!!! Been dealing with this for the past six months...no chainring selection. I have an '87 Rockhopper with an 11/42t 11 speed and am running a 44/28t front 104bcd. It does everything you say in your video.
Be careful of the rear mech tho', was running a Shimano M5100 and the shifting wasn't horrible but it did have problems. Switched to the M5120 and all problems resolved!
Keep up the good work!
Does Origin8 Chainrings work with 11 speed chain and drivetrain ? I thought they are for 9 or max 10 speed chains
Oh dang, I remember that mountain double video! Gravel cycling has come a long way for sure.
I’ve been using a gx 24/36 double for a few years without a front derailleur. It isn’t ideal ease performance but I just get off and put the chain down w my hand when I need the little 24 for a big climby zone.
I run a 11-46 rear 11sp, with a 34/24 front. I think the 24 is perfect for the low gearing. I think that if I had to do it again I would have done a 36 or a 38 for the bigger chainring, and I probably will still move to it in the future.
Agree for bike touring, I think a 38T, instead of 42T like Russ mentions, would be plenty. A 24 or 26T granny feels right for some big long climb.
Can I ask what rear derailleur you use? I just got 36/26 chainrings to replace a 34t 1x setup, and would like to keep my 11-46 cassette but my derailleur has a max 11-42 when in 2x mode. Maybe just make sure I never crosschain, the only difference between the 11-42 and the 11-46 is the top end of the cassette
@@Ace-sv4tu Deore XT with a Goatlink.
@@teddgram thanks mate, I’ve got the xt rear Mech too, but with no Goat link, have been trying it with the setup I described above, and it’s been good. Just wanted to see what you were using and if you had any issues. The 36 is sweet spot in my case, and the front shifting is super slick, might have something to do with sticking with the 10t difference
24-46 low gear is like a 32-66? low gear. Imagine that cassette on a 1x😅
Seems like Sugino is quietly making some options for wide/low gearing on the 24mm hollowtech spindle, which is encouraging, though it is nice that Shimano is offering the 46/30 GRX setup, too. Hopefully in not to much time, there will be lots more replacement rings popping up for these setups!
Currently riding a triple and looking forward to my next build being a wide low set up! Thank you for the information and sharing !
I have several of those IXF cranks and like them as a cheap option for 1x and the 2x as in the video. One bent a crank arm when I caught a pedal on the side of a rut at a slow speed last year. Just a cautionary tale that they may not be the strongest crank out there.
Yes. That's why I show options and don't say you MUST buy the IXF.
Setup a 3x crank 104 bcd to a 2x 44t 28t with 9 speed 11-40 cassette... cheaper chainrings, casette, crank, brifters, rds, chain, better durability due to better chainline, note that most of those i mentioned are wear and tear parts meant to be replaced after certain amount of use, so upkeep is low... i was able to tune the 3x fd to shift between the 2x chainrings... all in all, this is the most practical approach... thanks Russ for sharing this to more people...
I built my New Albion Drake flat bar on/off road adventure bike with an FSA carbon crank, 39/27, and Sram XD 10-42 in the back. With 650b X 2.1 tires, I have 17-106 gear inches. Bam. An XT 11sp rear mech shifts flawlessly without a wolftooth adapter.
Stronglight 100lx 42 / 28 was there like 30 years ago.
Great content! Thank you so much!
I just love that old mtb you got there and love what you've done with it. All the best from Australia 👍
I did this on an old touring bike that I restored into a casual gravel cruiser. Originally it had a triple with something like 48-38-24 rings. I took off the 48t ring and put a 40t in the middle position (with shorter chainring bolts) with a 11-32t in the back. Great range, simple setup, and a cheap mod. Works fine with friction thumb shifters. The Q factor is a little wider and it doesn't look amazing (you can put a chainguard in the place of the big ring), but it works great. There are plenty of old triple cranksets out there with 110/74 bcd rings just waiting to be turned into super compact doubles.
I use a 11 to 20 tooth rear cassete with 5 sprockets mounted on the outside of a shimano 7 speed freehub body and a 20 and 44 tooth dual chainring. I therefore get everything from a 1:1 to a 4:1 ratio with no superfluous overlapping duplicated gears.
It's light and has worked perfectly for 3 years now.
I cycle about 80 miles per week on average.
I came to literally the exact same conclusion for my touring bike. I also had the same problem trying to find a 40 tooth chainring, so I'm running a 38/26 with an 11-42 in the back.
I use that IXF crankset for a wide range "manual double", there are narrow-wide granny rings in 64BCD available from a company called "Stone". They also have oval granny rings if that is ones fancy.
I like dropping from outer ring to mid ring on 3x for when you hard stop.
I run Deore 10 speed - 11 to 36 rear and 38/28 front. Suits me very well but I guess would need a little lower for bikepacking etc. Cheers Russ, keeping it Party Pace 👍
I echo your comment about trying to find chain rings. I took a 3X crank set (Amazon 39.99) and dumped the small 22T ring and just run with the 44/32. Gives me everything I want in an area that is relatively flat but does have some inclines and very strong winds that make the 32T very useful. And yes, cycling industry, listen to us in the party pace crowd.
I live in a pure flat area, I usually try to do just like you for a very occasional climb (once/twice a year on this bike), I don't even put front derailleur on, I do change front gear pure manually （use my hand and a leaf). That really works. And even I use a regularly chain ring (non-narrow wide), also no problem on lose chain.
I agree with your comment about manufacturers forgetting about the need for gravel/adventure bike in regard to cranksets and double setups, but any improvement is welcome. This could be wider ranged and adapted better for front derailing which has been ignored since the onset of the x1s. Keeping a quality double ring set up will boost the wide cassettes range but also keep the weight down with one less chainring and halve the amount of gear changes needed. The best double off the shelf possible for my bike is a 46/30 front crank and 11-40T Cassette on the back. This is with a 42cm chain stay, but I'm opened to any better ideas that work.
Amazing!! As simple as taking a square axle 42-32-22 crankset, taking off that 32 chainring, and move the 42. Thanks!!
Thank you so much for promoting low gear options. They really are better for the vast majority of normal, non-competitive cyclists.
I currently running with quad chainring setup with 24-34-42-48t rings, bottleneck here for gear range is freewheel rear hub that just limits me to 7 speed megarange freewheel with 34-14t cogs, 14t is too big for top end, and 10t difference between 34 and 24t (1st and 2nd) cogs is too big. Atleast chainline isn't a problem with quad. gear range is between 18-84 gear inched across 14 usable speeds in 28 speeds.
I discovered a Shimano ultra-low triple, 40x30x22. Basically the same as your wide-low except with a middle ring to bridge the gap. And it will work with my regular 10-speed cassette, resulting in 98.8-16.6 range in gear inches. Wish me luck!
Running a 44/30 now on a Sugino crankset, and it's awesome. Perfect mate for me with an 11-34 cassette. I'm sur la plate for the entire ride except for the steep climbs, which is where the 30T chainring comes into play.
I've been contemplating an index shifter for the rear with a friction shifter double on the front for a touring bike. Still prefer a 1x for rough gravel / light mtb. But I think a touring could beneficent from a friction / index double.
Totes. Friction for the FD is better.
My revived 85 Nishiki is setup with an index rear, friction front. Works perfectly and simplifies things a bunch. Even my Masi Giramoto came with an indexed 10 speed and a triple friction. It's a joy to shift and far less fiddly than a indexed front.
I’m a pretty competitive long distance cyclist (mostly Ironmans) and I figured out that if you are going over 27 mph, that’s a great time to coast and recover. You don’t need gears higher than that because you will be faster in the end if you use that time to rest for the next hill
Hmmmmmm food for thought
@@sirensynapse5603 Right. The power required to go from 27 to 28 mph is exponentially more than going from 14 to 15. Best off enjoying the 27 mph and having a drink and snack instead.
A triple is awesome when one is going down hill, or have a motor to where it allows a heavier gear to be used efficiently. However if you do not plan on adding a motor a wide-Low is better than a 1by as it saves the strain the entire crankset will need to go through on a by as there is no other option, but to be more out of alignment, and doesn’t’ provide what could be a piece of leg power/leverage a High/Low will give you without having to think do I need something custom, or search out if there even is available 60+ tooth in the back to get the highest high to the lowest low. Great vid, sir. I’m subbing.
Big IXF fan here, incredible value for money.
This is what I ended up with on my bike, but only from buying random used parts at a local shop. I have an SR Super Custom with 45/28 paired with an 11-42 Advent cassette which gives tons of range. It was originally one of the 1/2 step plus Granny type setups but I ditched the outer 50T ring. The only issue is the 86BCD makes it tougher to find a replacement ring for when these vintage ones wear out.
Nice video. I run 22/32 on my bike, which I mainly use for riding up rocky trails or blasting round the woods.
For a gravel build, I bought a deore m6000 triple that was 22-30-40 and simply removed the 22. Picked up a 28t ring in case I need more bottom end. Running a deore triple front derailleur which can handle 17 tooth gaps. 11-42 rear and a long cage XT der. On my backpacking bike I run a 24-34 double with a 11-50 in back for 14 low end gear inches and I definitely use the ultra granny in the high Rockies. I saw this crankset but with the need to buy rings, the Deore was about the same price. Plus Shimano.
I cannot believe you just posted this. I am looking for exactly this. I currently run a 46/30 FSA 30mm megaevo crankset. After tons of research (for touring and bike packing) I concluded that a 28x42 double with a 11-36 rear cassette 9 speed would be near perfect. I could not find this double. I am yes, an older rider looking to still cycle tour. But even 10 -20 years ago, you do not use the 11-12 13, etc to the extend you use the upper gears if you are in the 80-90 cadence range. Thanks so much. I will take a look at your ideas and the other comments below.
on my Trek 520: Sugino XD triple crank, 44 t in the middle position, 28 t in the small position. 11-36 in the rear, 10 speed, works great.
I set up a 28-48 front rings with a 11-42 rear. On 26 x 2.2 maxis ikons. Great range and shifts decent up front.
Totally agree I've been using 42/28 sram front 11/36 back for years its been great.
Trouble is the aluminium spindles worn now and getting a replacement is going to be difficult
After two years of tweaking I've ended up on a 40/22 with custom 12-28 cassette.
10sp cassette is 12,14,15,16,17,18,19,21,24,28. Love the spread of 1t jumps when on the flats and slight inclines.
Similar to what U mentioned, I dump it into the small ring when finding something steep to hit.
Crank is the Easton EA with the narrow Q, with RaceFace cinch spider and TA Chinook 2x rings.
10sp Sram road shifters with Sram mtb EA derailleurs plus clutch.
Can always tweak the low end of the cassette if required.
Thank you for this encouragement.
Mine is a diy project. 38-19
Here in the flatlands of Florida I run an FSA Tempo Adventure crankset that uses 46/30. On the back I have 8 speed. I ride it just as you describe, spending most of the time in the big ring and dropping to the small ring for climbs (bridges) and sometimes going off road. In a hillier environment I'd want the lower range that you're showing us here.
Dude it's crazy I had no idea that these cranksets were capable of this!! I have 3 of the ixf cranks and I ran outside and looked and 2 of them have the smaller holes drilled so I can throw those 64bcd ring on them. Life-changing video!!!
I have the similar set up. 28/48 front 12-32rear.
I have all the gears i need without all the problems that come with 1x. The peace of mind that comes with knowing that i have the easiest gear for me during climbs and still not losing the hardest gear for the road is so satisfying.
Oh and one of the reasons people get BIG PLATE CHAINRING is to have the best chainline possible when you are in your fast cruising speed on the road, the difference between being in your last cog at the back vs being in a cog that is inline with your chainring when in fast cruising speed is worlds apart. At least for me that is one of the reasons i have that 48 and maybe get 50 in the future.
And of course with big chainring you get the best fast cruising speed chainline and still have that last cog for the occasional/ fun/when boredom strike sprinting, because sprinting with a very fast cadence like spinning a small gear is not fun at all. 😂
Yes, and a wide range double can use a narrow spindle for closer pedal spacing, If one wants.
Sounds good to me! I'm 72 and hardly ever use the big ring on the front, all I want are some lower gears. I ride with my daughters up and down hills here in Beaverton, and they stay in one gear of the whole time. Meanwhile I'm using all the gears in low and middle and wishing for a lower one...
I do pass them going down hills though.
Currently settled on my 40/26 paired with 11-46 9spd casette set up...and yes the 40t chain ring is "narrow wide"...but it shifts...maybe coz its a budget ring so it doesnt really hold on to the chain as its supposed to 😅
Yes! I too have been so confused about why this isn't more of a thing. I have been running my bikes for yearrrrrs on a version of that.
I just called it "kick-down" gearing, as I never bothered with a front derailleur. As you mentioned, one mostly operates in the larger ring, so I would just use the granny gear for camping or obvious climbs in which I would "kick" the chain down into the lower ring.
Its a bit of a nuisance to get it back up into the large ring cause it has to be done by hand, but it doesn't bother me and is so infrequent
that, for me, has not justified a front shifter.
Long live the wide step double! Great stuff as usual. Russ, you are coming full circle to your retrogrouch roots (have you given the new Sugino OX series another shot, yet?;)
I've been experimenting a bunch lately on the triple crank conversion you mentioned. But with one big difference: why not stick to good ol' square taper in 110/74bcd? If you aren't going to use a 22t granny, there's no reason not to ... PLUS: this approach fixes both of the downsides you pointed out.
With a triple crank (I like Specialized Flag, Shimano 600 series, etc.) on a 116mm spindle even 113mm depending on frame clearance, you get a q factor of ~157. And if you want a wider q? No problem! Just go for a wider spindle. The advantage of square taper is the adjustability. Lastly, the 110/74 bcd has been around for decades and chainrings are much more widely available. Yet another point for how bike tech hit its peak in the 90s :) in terms of useful gear range and cheap, widely available rings.
The Suginos are great. To my knowledge they aren't in production or readily available anymore. I don't have a problem with square taper, but the INTERNET always bitches and moans about "outdated technology" so I decided to go out of my way to find a "modern" crankset :)
@@PathLessPedaledTV down with the internet!! I wonder when we'll see the correction from 'stiffer is better PERIOD' to 'no, wait, this actually rides better huh'. Personally I switched from Hollowtech to square taper because I just got tired of servicing bearings. Square taper just goes and goes and goes... I love working on bikes but I don't know any fellow wrenches who love servicing bearings you aren't technically supposed to anyway. And the few extra grams? My 42-46t chainrings save me some vs the 50-53, right? 🤣
love where you are going here Russ; I want this same thing myself
On my MTB I have 11-36 10 speed and 28-40 on the front. Works great. Plus cassettes and chains are cheap and available!
I have the same rear set but a 32-22 front. Gives my old legs a nice low gear plus the tight ratios. Low gear same as a 1x with a 51 tooth cassette. If I use my 11-42 cassette I have the same as a 61 tooth 1x!
I'm in the middle of a drivetrain replacement, swapping a 3-speed hub for a 1x11 configuration. I was initially keen on adding an extreme wide/low on the front, leaving the hub and brake on place. My shop talked me out of it, and I think he was right. Reasons were that 1x is less of a reliability/maintenance headache, that the price of the two conversion routes isn't vastly different, and that extremely wide ranges on the rear are now available. Ended up going with 38T on the front and 11-51 on the back. So a little short of a 40T at the top end, and not quite cargo-bike gears at the bottom. When it's done I'll take it on a short tour and ... see what happens!
(That's not meant as an argument against your points in the video, BTW; I was just walking through my own flirtation with a wide/low crankset in this specific weird context.)
Great Video! I just grind the teeth off the big ring on a triple and it serves as an excellent bash guard. So I've been doing the same thing but in a heavier and cheaper way. ;)
I actually found a bashguard that replaces the outer ring on ebay. I can slam the shifts without worrying about overshifting also!
Another thing I discovered: if your budget won't quite run to a Shimano GRX chainset, they also do a 46/30 in the budget Tourney range for little more than a third the price (GBP32 vs about 90 for the GRX). Just sharing this with you as I stumbled across this by chance; I never even knew Tourney did doubles never mind a 46/30!
I used this to lower the low gear on my gf's gravel bike from 34/27 to 30/36 for less than GBP100 total (including 12-36 cassette and Alivio mech). Granted it probably doesn't have the longevity of GRX but if it gets you moving that's good, right?
Shimano Tourney is 7/8 speed. Does it run normally on the GRX system?
@@jpk91 That's a very good question! I put it on a 9-speed bike and it ran fine - I don't own anything above 9-speed so can't really speak for that.
I was aiming the comment at 'cyclists on a budget' but should have made that clearer, sorry!
For some time I've been running the SRAM GX 2x11 setup on my bikepacking rig. The cranks have 38 and 24 chain rings and since I've switched to the SRAM XD drive, I'm running a 10-42 cassette, giving me almost exactly the range Russ is trying to achieve. This is, however, on a flat bar bike. There are some after market products, that I think Russ has previously covered, that would allow using drops and this group set. My SRAM GX has proven to be reliable and easy shifting after several years of heavy usage.
This bike came with a 1x setup and I just didn't feel like it had the range I wanted for bikepacking. Enough low to grind up steep grades with a load. And enough high to spin along on long flats and downhills.
Glad you posted this! Been wanting to get rid of my triple too and these cranksets are nice and affordable
Wholeheartediy agree. Just converted my road bike to the IRD 5 bolt(96bcd)46×30. Perfect for almost everything and keeps the q narrow like a proper roadbike. Soma sells the ird stuff. Highly recommended
Oops, didn't mean to sound roadieccentric. It's just what I've been riding lately. Grew up riding the 80s 90s mtbs and still consider the bridgestone XO a wonderful thing