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Don occasionally had brief moments where he was a good father. The problem (as with so much else in his life) is that he couldn't maintain those and string them together into a successful whole.
I can think of four Bobbies... the one only in the Carousel slides, Early Bobby (“We need to get you a new daddy”), Mid Bobby (“I love sweet potatoes”), and Late Bobby (“Father Abraham had seven sons, SEVEN SONS!”) Yet while Matt Weiner loved to recast Don’s son, he never recast his own.
I totally agree. The only character that maybe it's not that well written is Michel Ginsburg, I mean when he first show up was so interesting but as mad men goes on he fades away.
Rara Avis Me too. Ginsberg is a very interesting character but I also feel he's not fleshed out enough. He's somewhat of a question mark. All we know about Ginsberg is he's funny though some of the things he says leave the listener scratching his/her head. He has a nervous energy, a doting father, says outlandish things and may or may not be suffering from mental illness, based on the episode where he grows paranoid of a machine brought into SCDP that he believes is causing him to have carnel obsessive thoughts. His "mental breakdown" comes to a head where he cut off his nipples and eventually Ginsberg's losing his mind being carried out on a stretcher, yelling and pleading for all to believe him about the machine. He is somewhat a tragic figure.
verillo14 ginsburg is my favorite character, but I absolutely agree about him fading out and I’m super bummed about his ending story. He could’ve been awesome, he was in the first few episodes.
Also, in a time when women generally did not have what we would call careers (it's so depressing but true to say that), they managed to work around that. The female characters were very well-developed.
@@dollydagger4306 Oh man I don't envy anyone landing in the mental health system of late 60's. I thought an introduction into that weird world, like they did with the OB-gyn world when Betty gave birth, would have been extremely interesting. Also, the writers really killed it in the dark humor department in this whole show, especially with the lawn mower incident and Ginsberg. I cried when he got taken away, at the same time that the nipple release valve was also so oddly funny. The writers are pretty savage.
I'm surprised you skipped over her relationship with Gene, I think that he's one of the most important factors in Sally becoming who she is later on. As a little girl that's expected to shut up and be adorable, Gene actually talks to her, and most importantly *listens* to her. He talks to her about her mother candidly, that Betty is a flawed person and to not listen to everything she says. He tells uncomfortable truths, he makes time for her, lets her eat ice cream and letting her drive the car, as crazy as it is, he's giving Sally the feeling of freedom and confidence, and treats her like a human being with thoughts and feelings.
Swifty yes! I was surprised he was referred just as “childhood” friend. He was such a weird presence on the show, everytime he shows up, something changes. He was there when Sally got her period Wich I think is really telling, he had such a deep connection with both Betty and Sally, that’s weird.
I think Sally is also Gene's chance to right the wrongs he committed when raising Betty. Because he raised and pampered a young woman who despite being intelligent couldn't dare think for herself and he along with his wife over emphasized the importance of being beautiful and decorative when Betty was growing up. And at that moment he gets to think back on where he went wrong and encourages Sally to use her brains
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 Absolutely. I think, also, he's aware that he has very little time left, so he crams as much as possible into raising Sally. That scene with her in the kitchen after his death remains one of the most memorable ones to me of the whole series.
Sally, to me, is an example of child characters done right. Although her brothers don't have the same level of development compared to her, it's clear the writers wanted to give her equal importance to an almost adult cast and respected her along them. Whenever I hear people being annoyed by kids on shows, I remind myself that it's the writers fault for not caring enough. Plus, like this video said, Sally is the closest to being a surrogate for 50 year olds that watched Mad Men.
Same level of development? There was literally zero development of the boys and it was the one aspect of Mad Men that really bothered me. They might as well have not existed at all. Also, even for his limited screen time, the part of the older son was horribly cast.
I'm generally not in favour of spinoffs, but this video essay made me more curious about Sally navigating the 70's as a young woman in NY. Great video essay as usual.
That would be interesting, especially how parts of NYC went through a rough period during the 70s (urban decay, Son of Sam, the ‘77 blackout, etc.). Sally did call the city “dirty.”
@Noah Redding Not gonna watch that show since it's about two people I don't care about at all, but it's good to know she was good in it. I expect her to be. She's like the only great high school aged actress that doesn't do cheesy/bad high school movies or tv shows like all the Netflix originals such as Insatiable, kissing booth, the second season of 13 reasons why, etc.
She's always on the "most annoying child characters" lists. But I don't get it. I think Sally is awesome and EASILY one of the best characters in the series.
my guess would be that those lists are probably written by people who don't understand the point of mad men is to illustrate the fall of people like don, but think Don is a protagonist. Meaning all the other characters having thoughts and feelings would annoy them
My guess: a lot of people, me included, just find small children annoying. The way she talks and throws fits sometimes really gets on my nerves. Doesn't have anything to do with her being written badly, to the contrary even.
I’m like she’s a kid. Who has been through a lot. I don’t think she’s annoying I think she is interesting & her flaws and rough edges and pain is portrayed realistically - both by the writers and the brilliant performance of miss Kiernan Shipka
I almost cried at the part where Betty wrote “I know your life will be an adventure” Just awesome thinking Betty was not gonna make it and despite everything she did to Sally, she liked Sally’s spark and admired her
@CAOS Fanclips Some people hate on people who are able to achieve independence and confidence. The Betty was raised from birth to be a certain way and when she cease that Sally is different and that she thrives that way, it's like Betty's time was so wasted
My favorite thing about Sally Draper is in Kiernan Shepka's performance. She's SO good at picking up the subtleties and nuances of Don & Betty that I was convinced she was actually their child. It makes sense cause she was cast SO young, and the actors with which she had the most scenes with her Jon Ham and January Jones so it's no surprise she picked up their eccentricities and put that in her performance.
That's a fascinating observation. What with the way we pick things up from grown-ups when we're still children, I wonder if Kiernan Shepka finds herself acting or talking like her TV parents even now in real life.
She became like her dad working in the advertising business and married Glenn not Glenn from THE WALKING DEAD but Glenn from MAD MEN and made baby boy name him Don Draper jr
Kiernan Shipka was a great child actress and she’s grown to be an even better adult actress with Blackcoat’s Daughter and the new Sabrina series. Can’t wait to see what she does next
I think the Sabrina series wouldn't be as great if she were not in it. Her acting really does make it better. Makes it stand out from shows like Riverdale
I always thought that a perfect representation of Sally's character shined through in the scene with the crazy lady robbing the apartment. She is very uncertain at first and we can tell and after a while you can't tell anymore if the woman is fooling her or if she's playing along. Sally always had to be high alert and rely on instinct because no one was teaching her what she needed to know and that scene represented it in the perfect way.
I identified with Sally more than with any other character on Mad Men. My parents divorced early in my life, my family has always been fractured, my parents hated one another and I was always caught in the crossfire. I became a very isolated person, preferred to be alone, I felt like no one wanted or loved me. I was terrified of people leaving me like so many had in my life. So much of Sally's behavior mirrored how I felt and behaved at her age. I was happy to see Sally develop her own identity and be so different from Don and Betty, which is something I was never able to do. To this day, I still have no idea who I am or where I'm headed, and I'm often just as angry as my parents were. Probably worth noting that I have BPD.
@ Marc Shanahan I feel you. None of us really get away from our childhood traumas and our parents' personality flaws and the family dynamics. (I sure did not.) I don't believe very many people really know who they are at any age. You are okay the way you are.
Carla the Destructor --Well said 🌺Coming from a marriage that should have had a divorce...”stayed together because of the kids”....so they seemed to hate & resent us all. Even determine to be opposite of your parents doesn’t give you a road map on HOW to be. Most everyone feels disjointed and out of sync with others. You aren’t alone🌹
The show is about advertising-- chasing happiness through consumerism. Sally has it all, materially, and she is a study in the failures of consumerism to ensure happiness. Her financially secure childhood is a stark contrast to Don's depression-era childhood, but the show couldn't make it clearer, through Sally, that family, emotions and security are what matter so much more. While Don's character is defined by running away from problems and toward shallow "happiness," everything he runs from finds permanency in Sally; she's a slate that can't be erased or traded. I think one of the bravest aspects of his cowardly character is that he never turns on Sally because of this, but seems to admire her for not running. The show needed an anti-consumerism foil to the advertising world, and in a lesser show it would have been an idealistic woman or mushy cloying plot-line about the importance of family. What they did with Sally was great.
I am Sally Draper; the clothes, the era, the lack of supervision..I grew up in a madmen household. This series was a time machine for me..and wonderfully mesmerizing!
Same here! I'd see her outfit and accessories and shout at the TV "I had one just like that!" I also read books I was way to young for because no one was paying attention - In Cold Blood, Portnoy's Complaint, The Godfather
Baby Boomers were the first generation marketed to as a generational demographic. Considering that this show is about marketing I can't help but think that Sally represents the first generation that was marketed to from cradle to grave. Childhood as a psychological stage wasn't popularized until Baby Boomers. The Silent Generation (generation before Boomers) never had what we would call a childhood as we know it today. Boomers were the first generation that had Dr Spock, and the idea that kids shouldn't have to work to help support the family, the first generation that didn't see kids as an economic resource, but as consumers. Parents were supposed to spend money on kids, the kids weren't there to generate money for their parents by working on a farm or a family business. So while we see Sally as being put in grownup situations, not allowed to have a childhood, I do not think that those ideals were fully formed at the time that Sally came along. Her parents surely didn't grow up that way.
Some of this I can agree, but with marketing and generationing, it has not done good. Essentially, kids and teens are objects for both parents and marketers, and suffer similarly as women in Mad men. You can see it still today. Didnt have to work (for money) has turned to work emotionally in some way, which is worse.
@@coleslawYSJ I wish I could do the same. But building an empire is so time consuming that one even forgets there are shows that need a-finishing. Same with Boardwalk Empire, I have the last season DVD but still haven't watched it yet. One of these days I'll just drop everything on the floor, sit down in front of the tv and bingewatch
I was around Sally’s age during the ‘60s and early ‘70s, and the bit about her serving drinks to her parents’ guests at their dinner parties is very accurate for that generation, I did the same thing
This officially made me feel bad for mocking boomers. They had to deal with the effects of neglectful parents AND the effects of spoiling their own kids.
@@dim9753 Idk, man. It's not like every parent back then was super abusive and it's not like no parent now is abusive. It's up to you to adapt and not be a dick.
@@dim9753 no i noticed (im a millenial my mom was a boomer. she died of lung cancer when i was a senior in high school but she smoked most of her life.) many of my friends' parents and mine expected so much from us: athletics, academics, etc. also IMO many ppl including my mom thought "girly" was frivolous or it's best to "keep your mouth shut" and not speak up (i wont sit by ill speak up IDC honestly sometimes it's right though) also she thought i was shallow but looks matter also we girls are judged so harshly for how we look and behave way more than boys are. so much for feminism and women's rights! also another highly valued trait was being sensible. it's like hello. most teens aren't sensible. some people just are suck ups; they don't respect honesty
I think almost anyone who's grown up in a conventional home, where appearance matters so much to the point where real feelings and affection are ignored, can somehow relate to Sally. So sad but glad she came out alright.
I liked Sally. She was about a year older than I was in those days, and my father was also a high functioning, creative, charming, handsome, alcoholic narcissist. I saw a lot of my childhood in hers, and I actually had some of the clothes she wore in the show.
I was born in 1953 so I remember much of what I saw in Madman. My folks let me watch serious news my dad made me watch the 1960 Kennedy Nixon debates. Maybe this is why I like the show so much.
The thing that struck me the most was Don's and Betty's reaction to Sally's plea for consolation after Gene died. That really showed how uninterested they were in her, her feelings and her development. To cry and to get told to go watch TV? Jesus. Not sure if all parents of that generation were like them, but the officer who brings the news of Gene's death also closed the door to Sally, even though she is shocked.
It was relatively common. Not necessarily to Betty’s extent, but certainly there. I’m a Millennial that had a strange mix of helicopter parenting at times but left for the telly to raise the rest of the time. My mother would tell me about her upbringing and how cruel it just was, and how she was trying to understand her children despite never having had that modelled as a child herself. As a kid herself, she was cleaning up her baby brother’s soiled bed to save him a beating. She was about 8 years old, and I’ve seen photos (rare) of family back then, and my mum was about 7, holding her baby brother on her hip. Other younger brother leaning towards her too. Her parents had an even harder life, of course. My grandma started working at the age of 14 full time and the money went straight to her abusive and alcoholic father. She was the eldest of about 8 kids (6 were half siblings from her stepmother), and she would work extra fast and earn a little more to hide away. She saved, and saved and her first independent purchase was a washcloth with soap. Her next one was a comb. Not even for just herself, but to wash and care for her siblings. Her home life was misery. My grandpa started working part time in physical jobs at 11, then full time at 12. But at least his mother was strong and kind and even after her first husband passed, she kept her 2nd one in line to treat her kids well. He was about the 3rd of 12 kids or so. It’s little wonder they were ill-equipped for raising their kids. At least they only had 3! My mother was wonderful, but married an abusive narcissist who everyone believed had “saved” her, because she had had 1 child at 17 out of wedlock, my older sister. I still don’t know how my mum lived through all that and is still kind, funny and resilient. She and my father sheltered us way too much from the world. My father said it was to keep us safe, so she agreed, but it was more about control for him, as we found out eventually. I was not prepared for adulthood when I suddenly left home at 18 when my mother remarried fairly suddenly. So I had to learn on my own. I now have kids and honestly, it feels like so much pressure, to read and be up to date, to try to not cause trauma, to help them but also let them develop resilience. We try our best. And wow. That was an essay that no-one will read on an old video. 😂
Boomer here. Mine were like that. They put our hard-to-housebreak dog down without telling us first. I cried when they told me, and I was scolded because I didn't help clean up her messes so I had no right to be upset. Implied it was partially my fault that the dog was dead. No lie.
I’m so glad you did this on Sally. I identified with Sally. I have tried to break away from my parents dysfunctional ways. I love my family,but it’s ok to search for you’re own path.
I love sally as a character Because she is just so relatable. When I was a kid no one listened to me and know one knew or believed that I would notice what they didn’t think I would. I would just oppress my feelings and talk to myself a lot as well as writing in my diary A LOT with many many details that no one would have thought I would.
@@kylemagaro231 I loved Sal so much! By the end of the show I was hoping to see him at least once but didn't, so I thought that maybe Sal's story wasn't as good as I remembered. I rewatched and felt like it was even better on the rewatch.
@@MyssBlewm Apparently they almost brought him back in the final season to wrap things up, but Matthew Weiner wanted to keep it ambiguous. His story is the second most tragic after Lane Pryce's of course.
I love the care that went into crafting every character in this show. (Of course, it helps when you're lucky enough to discover the fantastic Kiernan Shipka and cast her as Sally.)
This just shows the reason why they should make a Mad Men spin-off with Sally in the 70s and have cameos with her father once in a while and her brothers/aunt & uncle, as she meets her spouse in college like a lot of baby boomers did in the early 70s. Then we see the rest of her 70s misadventures :D
Kiernan said that if they make a Sally Draper spin off, she would've been in L.A. instead being in New York which is interesting. Imagine like a series where Sally pursue a Hollywood acting career, that would've been cool
oh mad men is greater than stranger things, that show is just a service to the 80s while mad men uses the 60s as a tool for a wider commentary of today with the parallels between then and now. mad men blows that show out of the waters on everything
@@jahimjauh-hey5653 bc they mentioned Stranger Things in the video and compared to how ST romanticizes the 80s childhood freedom while Mad Men shows the damaging effect of parental neglect in the 60s
Stranger Things is more pastiche than real synthesis--that's where Mad Men beats it. Mad Men is a complex drama that doesn't really tie itself to any one genre; Stranger Things is very much genre in its tropes and style. Just going for different things, though I obviously prefer Mad Men much more, lol.
Sally is a great character and played by a very, very good actress. One of my favorite parts of Mad Men is her conversation with Roger Sterling. Sally: “You’re wrecking the speeches. Roger: “You’re a mean drunk. You know that?” (S5, E7)
When I first watched the show, I could not stand Sally. I figured she was a bratty ungrateful child. But I was 15 and worshipping Don Draper. But when i watched it again and again. I began to realize the toxic relationship with her parents. I'm glad this breakdown was given because I have a more understanding.
Sally really reminds me of all the things my mom told me about her childhood. The neclecting especially. My mom was given to an aunt when she was very young, because the family didn't have enough money and place for her and her brother. She didn't return home until the age of seven
Thank you for creating this video--a LOT of subscribers were asking for it. The character of Sally Draper is one of the most challenging ones in Mad Men, and Kiernan Shipka was perfect-a powerhouse.
Sally only turns out okay because she literally steps back and looks at both her parents and is like "fuck I don't want to be like them." The only time she gets along with Betty is when Betty gets cancer and is completely humbled.
They had SO much luck with Kiernan, she has grown with the series to be such a great actress. I remember the way she was really mad in one episode when she was at the office, she ran away and fell, it was amazing performance and it was before she was so grown. All the characters are so well written. You can just see the way life influence their personalities, you can really see how the death of grandpa Gene affects Sally for so long. It's just amazing!
Kiernan Shipka, a precociously fantastic, naturalistically expressive actress. Always plausible.Tatum O'Neil calibre: were her Sally Draper performance in a film, she'd be Oscar worthy.
Just watching this video reminds me so much of my mother, who was born in 1958 and passed away in 2012. My mother's upbringing did differ from Sally's in a few ways. My family's black and my mom's early childhood was spent in very white neighborhoods in New Jersey, so she faced racism from a young age. And my grandparents were a bit younger than Don and Betty when they became parents (18 and 21). While my mother didn't face a lot of the outright emotional neglect of the Drapers and she had a very close relationship with her dad, a lot of the points in this video really resonates with what I learned about her upbringing. My mom and her mother had a very dysfunctional relationship that really only got patched up once I was born in '96. I distinctly remember my mom telling me that she often felt like her mother never wanted her, but was stuck with her because she had no other choice in the late '50s. At age six, I realized that I'd never heard my mother call my grandmother "mom" or "mommy" and she told me that she hadn't been allowed to address her mother that way starting from the age of ten or so. It struck me as so weird. Looking back now, I realize my mom spent so much of her time making sure I knew she loved me and that I was wanted. Because she rarely felt that way growing up. She was also a bit of a helicopter parent, too. And I say all of this even though I really loved my grandmother. She was a huge part of my childhood and I was devastated when passed away last year.
Your voice is so alluring. Everytime I watch a video of yours I get lost till the very end. Makes me feel nostalgic about the shows I've watched and makes me want to view people as a culmination of their experiences and try to know them better . Thank you for this . Sometimes I feel that TH-cam is my safe space when people I meet irl don't understand me . One of the greatest shows ever 💓.
Man - another fantastic video. My opinion is - Mad Men is head and shoulders above any other television series. There's Mad Men, and everything else. Sally Draper could have been a secondary character with little to say and have little impact on the series, but she ends up representing an entire generation - entirely on her own shoulders. She is the best written child character to ever be on television, and Kiernan Shipka was a good enough actress to pull it off. And some of her scenes were laugh out loud funny when she starts to mimic her parents - but also a little sad - and that's really hard for any actor to pull of convincingly. I hope there's more Mad Men videos coming. All of them have been so right on.
The thing is its not that Betty or Don area not being great parents, they are behaving and teaching children things they know and what parents in that time were like. My grandma she is in her 80s she is like Betty how woman should dress, talk, take care of children, cooks and works only if she have the time for boredom but man's job is to pay and finance the rest. Today thats awful but back then it was normal. That is the reason why this show is amazing they did amazing job for presenting the time, people, events all that very realistic.
I had a really cool English teacher in high school who taught me to watch movies critically and in depth. I’m so grateful bc it’s not common sense. I understand film and books so much more precisely than I did before his class. But this is so fun to watch bc I don’t have anyone to discuss film with. I ask my husband questions like “what do you think that foreshadowing was a metaphor for?” And he’ll just shrug. Not even think about it. I couldn’t watch movies like that. I need to know everything. Every little detail. So thanks for making these! Also shoutout to Mr. Halboom 💖🙏🏼
Brilliant synopsis. I've watched the series start to finish, no less than 14x now, always check out different recap publications or podcasts, and while I always pick up new things, on each rewatch, it has never once occurred to me, to consider Sally as a representative, of the boomer generation. Being an early millennial/Xenial (born in 82) to boomer parents (Dad 57, Mom 62), this video, gives me incredible insight, into how my parents' upbringing, would've affected their eventual outcome, flaws and parenting style. My parents were a mix of Don and Betty, and early helicopter parents. My sister and I weren't directly supported well, emotionally: our parents didn't hug us, or express any positive emotions, but we (myself more than my sister) weren't afforded opportunities to fail on our own. They were overbearing, in the sense that they made all decisions for us, and were at the school, micromanaging our assignments and extracurriculars. Yet we were kind of left to our own devices, inside the home: lots of TV watching, Nintendo / computer playing, and reading books, none of which was ever censored for appropriate content (I read a true crime story on local serial killer, Alan Legere, at aged 11, and began reading Stephen King at aged 10). I was also VERY sheltered, with a STRICT curfew of 9pm, regardless of weekend or school night. There was a constant fear for my parents, that I would get hurt, or into some kind of trouble. I wasn't allowed out of their bubble. My sister once gave me some some good insight, into our upbringing, by recommending some readings on, the narcissistic parent. Our parents were emotionally distant in the house, but by all appearances on the outside, very hands on. My sister, being second born, had far fewer expectations, placed on her, than were placed on me. I was NEVER permitted, to be anything less, than perfect, and needed to have straight A's across the board. As an adult, and learning to understand that to our parents, we were mearly seen as extensions of them, myself more than my sister, greatly helped to reconcile feelings of inadequacy. The criticism I had faced growing up, had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with my parents not being able to disassociate themselves, from me. I was their first born, and they had something to prove to the world with me. If I didn't meet their perfect expectation, then to them, they were perceived as a failure. We've all long since healed, and moved on from the emotional scars caused, in my childhood. My parents stopped helicoptering, in my mid 20's. I had a few hours or more of therapy, to learn how to be a self sufficient adult on my own, how to understand and reconcile my parents' shortcomings, and more importantly, I learned how to make decisions on my own and trust my judgement. This clip providing insight into what growing up was like for boomers, adds a next level of understanding, of my parents' upbringing, and why they parented the way they did. A good mix of old, like Don and Betty, where they kind of ignored us, and new, where they tried to protect me, as best as they could. I can clearly see where they tried to rebell and be better, than how they were raised (both sets of grandparents were totally Don and Betty), but still fell back and relied on what they knew. I suppose each generation, is more of the same. We're all damaged in some way, and we all try to do the best we can, with the cards we were dealt.
I love and hate that I can totally identify with Sally Draper's character and story. Not that my parent's are terrible people, being born in '55 and '54 and growing up slightly more sheltered than Sally; the whole thing hits close to home in a number of ways and that's both painful and enlightening for me to know that the writers for Mad Men, and especially the characters and their ways, were some of the best out there. They really captured it well. 12:00 I love that bit about the nuance in how Don said "this is where _I_ grew up" instead of "this is where I grew up." Such a great show! And I LOVE that Kiernan Shipka :D
I'm not even half-way through this and I'm ready to cry for Sally. I was a bit luckier with the parents I got, but I knew kids with parents like Sally's - they weren't rare in those days.
Thank You for this wonderful portrait of Sally Draper. I learned so much about marriage and divorce from watching this series. I understand that everyone and every parent is not perfect. Children cannot expect to have a perfect childhood. Nobody's Perfect. Everyone has a story. Thank you. I love Madmen and all of the Characters. Great Job!!!
These Mad Men analysis videos are top notch. I would not disappointed if you did a video on every major character of the show, even the ones that weren't around for the entire run.
YAAAS! In line with the trailer for chilling adventures of Sabrina season 2, what a wonderful video that not only eloquently analyzes Sally’s character but portrays what a wonderful actress Kiernan Shipka is. Another great video, thanks ScreenPrism.
I was Sally's age from those days. I totally identified with her and the memory of my young self would have crushed really hard for her. She even attended the elementary my cousins went to. Good for Matthew Weiner's amazing attention to detail.
I'm a Gen Z with a divorced parents and I couldn't have related her more and more. Whenever she's sad about her family life, I feel her cuz I know that's what it feels like to live with a divorced parents
It makes sense. Honestly, I think period shows like this say a lot more about the time it came out rather than the time it took place. If this show came out in the 80s, the family would probably be much more different. I knew a lot of kids in the 2000s who were raised like Sally. This was back when people would call you a helicopter parent if you dared to not make your kid walk to school alone despite living in a car centric area or you talked to them for more than 5 seconds. 😂 I remember a teacher telling me my parents were helicopter parents and were "weirdos" because I told her that my family normally ate dinner together.
Thank you for this, I never really understood Sally's relevance other then to be Don and Betty's punching bag and prove the notion that there a toxic couple. Don't get me wrong, I like her and genuinely had sympathy for her. Yet I never really had any TANGIBLE REASON to argue why I appreciate her. Now I do, Thanks.
My parents are from this generation, but as I am not from US I have the feeling that they act more as Sally parents. Even with the cultural differences, their traumas are pooring to their kids. It looks that my generation, in my contry, is more as Sally life mixed with TV and millenial culture.
This is a really good analysis of Sally's character, and of the Boomer generation. In the media today, the Boomers get such a bad reputation, even though - as Sally shows - they were just doing the best they knew how based on their own upbringings. As you note, this is a cycle that will always repeat. Right now it's the millennials and gen z people blaming the boomers for the problems of the world, but in twenty years or so, it'll be the next generation blaming us. Finding the humanity in other generations, and trying to understand and partner with them is really the only way to move forward as a society. Otherwise we'll just be languishing in blame forever.
I don't think anyone blames X for anything. And they kinda can't. We're the first generation after the boomers that know we won't get social security. We believed the promises of the 70s, gender and race equality, environmentalism, etc. Just to see boomers treat it like a trend n throw it all away to do coke n get money in the 80s. That's when the hippie dream turned punk.
Im a millenial. I do believe we will be nore open to change than the boomers are. We are having a hard time progressing right now because these ladies and gents may be old but its a lot of them. They vote against us. We embrace open mindedness more. Some of us may have a hard time changing but we recognized change as a reality more than previous generations. We dont embrace absolutes as much as they do.
I think blame-throwing is a vice peculiar to this past half-century. Best to rid one's self of the vice as soon as possible. It's a terrible thing to model for your own children.
ppl already blame millenials and think were all spoiled but theres more to everyone than just that. plus there's still so much sexism, racism, etc shaping society
Sally Draper was born the same year and month as my mother (April 1954). I also used her character as a marker for how old my parents were when certain events happened
@WillNelson73 That's interesting. I didn't realize that the character of Sally Draper was born in April 1954. I was born in Sept 1954. No wonder so much of Mad Men seemed so familiar to me. 🙂
I thought it was so weird how Sally became such a central character and yet Bobby was barely even given as an afterthought.. Sally basically was presented as an only child until Gene came along but even Gene was more of a vehicle to usher in the end of their parents marriage and the tie that kept them communicating afterwards as a young child will. More a plot device than an actual person. I can only really think of one single episode where Bobby had any relevance at all outside of being background scenery and that was the episode where he went on a field trip with his mom. Even THEN it didn't even really go into that much about who he was or what he could grow into as a person as a result of having Don and Betty as his parents, it was more about just highlighting Betty's character. What an odd choice.. just everything involving Bobby was an odd choice.... there are plenty of TV shows that drop characters after the first or second season because they aren't very popular or because they aren't very relevant and I really think if they weren't going to do anything with him anyway he should have been one of them. Which is a tragedy because of all the potential lost. Sally showed us what it was like to be a little girl during the 1960's, Bobby could have showed us what it was like to be a little boy during this time. They could have gone more into the relationship development between the two characters as a result of their neglectful parents, heck, they could have had the evolving sibling dynamic between Bobby and Sally at different points in their upbringing as one of the major plot elements of the show. But as is, the only thing that comes to mind when I think of Bobby Draper is waste.
Knowing that Betty starts the series mourning her mother and Sally ends it that way, I don't have a comfort level that the boomers are all right. Look how Sally's friend loses her dream and her violin. That's the more likely path for Sally. Her rejection of her parents values is in a way her guiding purpose. But as they reject her ( by running away and dying) she isn't left with much to fight against.
Same dude! You're not alone. I have watched neither Breaking Bad, nor The Wire nor this show - but I have still seen all their analyses on these shows. They are _that_ good.
Mad Men is really fucking amazing. It's way funnier than you would think a serious show like this to be, and everything in the show is top of the line.
Every time I wake up and go to youtube and see that you guys have uploaded a new Mad Men or Breaking Bad video, it's like waking up on Christmas morning. Love it!!!
The culture around you has a huge impact on what aspects of your generation's common attitudes you count among your own. My Boomer parents grew up in a small southern, WASPy town, where the societal changes happening were mostly confined to newspapers and TV reports, rarely touching their personal lived experience, and so retained a larger chunk of their parents' attitudes than their more metropolitan peers. They then raised me (late Gen X) primarily in a more urban, more multi-cultural environment, and we ended up with an irreconcilable generation gap, because it felt like at least two generations.
I see in her in LA. Maybe teaching or a freelance writer. She’d never stay in one job for long. She’d do poorly with bosses and in institutional settings. But she’s smart and talented enough to always have a hustle going. She’d either be a teetotaler or have a long term drinking problem. She doesn’t seem one for moderation. Her love life would be a disaster, but she would have no romantic illusions and is fine with short term flings and actually prefers to be alone. I do not see her having kids.
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Could you do Helen Bishop next?
Can you guys do a breakdown of Ruth from Ozark?
Still waiting on the rest of the sex and the city characters
it"s only a week, not a month...
The Take... You are really a hater of traditionalism, aren't you? You're an indoctrinated Marxist subversive.
I love Don’s line “you’re a very beautiful girl. It’s up to you be more than that.”
That’s the closest he ever got to good parenting
I see your comments all over Mad Men videos
Purpled
Thank you, I think? 😂
Don occasionally had brief moments where he was a good father. The problem (as with so much else in his life) is that he couldn't maintain those and string them together into a successful whole.
she's also rich and white
Also when he took Bobby to see The Planet of the Apes in the aftermath of Martin Luther King's assassination and then he comforted him to sleep.
Kiernan Shipka was one of the most talented, mature child actresses I've ever seen. I'm THRILLED to see her grow and thrive in the acting industry.
And it's impressive she was able to smooth out her lisp with speech therapy
@@bouncyshak how do you know she needed speech therapy to do it
I hope she doesn't become a neurotic husk like so many child stars.
and now the new Sabrina.... great show so far. very twisted.
Karlie Starr she is sooo good in the chilling adventures of Sabrina
I loved that we got to see Sally Draper grow up in real time without actor changes. I lost track of how many Bobbys there were.
Dagny Kight I didn’t even noticed they switched him out, lol.
I have been wondering whatever happened to Bobby I didn't even know they switched kids let alone just thought he ran away
I can think of four Bobbies... the one only in the Carousel slides, Early Bobby (“We need to get you a new daddy”), Mid Bobby (“I love sweet potatoes”), and Late Bobby (“Father Abraham had seven sons, SEVEN SONS!”)
Yet while Matt Weiner loved to recast Don’s son, he never recast his own.
@@erikolsen148 very good. I cant stand that episode when Betty babysits him
He should have used him as Pete Campbell's son
I HATED the last Bobby Draper, what a pain in the ass he was!!!!!!😎
Man, I‘m so in awe with the people who made that series. These characters are just so incredibly well written.
I totally agree. The only character that maybe it's not that well written is Michel Ginsburg, I mean when he first show up was so interesting but as mad men goes on he fades away.
Rara Avis Me too. Ginsberg is a very interesting character but I also feel he's not fleshed out enough. He's somewhat of a question mark. All we know about Ginsberg is he's funny though some of the things he says leave the listener scratching his/her head. He has a nervous energy, a doting father, says outlandish things and may or may not be suffering from mental illness, based on the episode where he grows paranoid of a machine brought into SCDP that he believes is causing him to have carnel obsessive thoughts. His "mental breakdown" comes to a head where he cut off his nipples and eventually Ginsberg's losing his mind being carried out on a stretcher, yelling and pleading for all to believe him about the machine. He is somewhat a tragic figure.
verillo14 ginsburg is my favorite character, but I absolutely agree about him fading out and I’m super bummed about his ending story.
He could’ve been awesome, he was in the first few episodes.
Also, in a time when women generally did not have what we would call careers (it's so depressing but true to say that), they managed to work around that. The female characters were very well-developed.
@@dollydagger4306 Oh man I don't envy anyone landing in the mental health system of late 60's. I thought an introduction into that weird world, like they did with the OB-gyn world when Betty gave birth, would have been extremely interesting. Also, the writers really killed it in the dark humor department in this whole show, especially with the lawn mower incident and Ginsberg. I cried when he got taken away, at the same time that the nipple release valve was also so oddly funny. The writers are pretty savage.
I'm surprised you skipped over her relationship with Gene, I think that he's one of the most important factors in Sally becoming who she is later on. As a little girl that's expected to shut up and be adorable, Gene actually talks to her, and most importantly *listens* to her. He talks to her about her mother candidly, that Betty is a flawed person and to not listen to everything she says. He tells uncomfortable truths, he makes time for her, lets her eat ice cream and letting her drive the car, as crazy as it is, he's giving Sally the feeling of freedom and confidence, and treats her like a human being with thoughts and feelings.
Swifty yes! I was surprised he was referred just as “childhood” friend. He was such a weird presence on the show, everytime he shows up, something changes. He was there when Sally got her period Wich I think is really telling, he had such a deep connection with both Betty and Sally, that’s weird.
I think Sally is also Gene's chance to right the wrongs he committed when raising Betty. Because he raised and pampered a young woman who despite being intelligent couldn't dare think for herself and he along with his wife over emphasized the importance of being beautiful and decorative when Betty was growing up. And at that moment he gets to think back on where he went wrong and encourages Sally to use her brains
AlePolait Gene was Sally’s grandfather, you’re talking about Glen.
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 Absolutely. I think, also, he's aware that he has very little time left, so he crams as much as possible into raising Sally. That scene with her in the kitchen after his death remains one of the most memorable ones to me of the whole series.
@@zanag.9226 i totally missread that, but i still think they shouldve included Glen more.
Sally, to me, is an example of child characters done right. Although her brothers don't have the same level of development compared to her, it's clear the writers wanted to give her equal importance to an almost adult cast and respected her along them. Whenever I hear people being annoyed by kids on shows, I remind myself that it's the writers fault for not caring enough. Plus, like this video said, Sally is the closest to being a surrogate for 50 year olds that watched Mad Men.
You said well
It also helps that she perfomed by an amazingly charismatic actress like Kiernen Shipka.
I've noticed that most good tv shows have a great intergenerational dynamic--developed characters from multiple generations, kid and adult.
Same level of development? There was literally zero development of the boys and it was the one aspect of Mad Men that really bothered me. They might as well have not existed at all. Also, even for his limited screen time, the part of the older son was horribly cast.
I'm generally not in favour of spinoffs, but this video essay made me more curious about Sally navigating the 70's as a young woman in NY.
Great video essay as usual.
Milt Moise That would be so cool!
That would be awesome! Or even a 15-20 episode series.
That would be interesting, especially how parts of NYC went through a rough period during the 70s (urban decay, Son of Sam, the ‘77 blackout, etc.). Sally did call the city “dirty.”
The HBO show, The Deuce, covers that seedy, grimy period of NYC history quite well.
I feel like Sally would have got out of NYC as soon as she could, to California or Europe. Get away from Betty & Don and make her own path in life.
After watching her in Mad Men, Feud and Sabrina I couldn't say anything less than she is a really good actress.
I knew she'd be great from season 4 on. She really started becoming a great actress so young.
What about Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
@Noah Redding Not gonna watch that show since it's about two people I don't care about at all, but it's good to know she was good in it. I expect her to be. She's like the only great high school aged actress that doesn't do cheesy/bad high school movies or tv shows like all the Netflix originals such as Insatiable, kissing booth, the second season of 13 reasons why, etc.
She is. In Sabrina she has this incredible confidence in her performance. I'm so proud of her. Sally ended up alright haha
@Noah Redding I'm sure I'd like it if I was interested in the peoole it's about, I've heard it's quite good.
She's always on the "most annoying child characters" lists. But I don't get it. I think Sally is awesome and EASILY one of the best characters in the series.
my guess would be that those lists are probably written by people who don't understand the point of mad men is to illustrate the fall of people like don, but think Don is a protagonist. Meaning all the other characters having thoughts and feelings would annoy them
Whaaat? sally is such a realistically written child, it always upset me when she got unfair treatment from Betty.
My guess: a lot of people, me included, just find small children annoying. The way she talks and throws fits sometimes really gets on my nerves. Doesn't have anything to do with her being written badly, to the contrary even.
I’m like she’s a kid. Who has been through a lot. I don’t think she’s annoying I think she is interesting & her flaws and rough edges and pain is portrayed realistically - both by the writers and the brilliant performance of miss Kiernan Shipka
The fact that there are lists for such
an inane subject as most annoying child is illustrative of how pathetic our culture has become.
I almost cried at the part where Betty wrote “I know your life will be an adventure”
Just awesome thinking Betty was not gonna make it and despite everything she did to Sally, she liked Sally’s spark and admired her
@CAOS Fanclips Some people hate on people who are able to achieve independence and confidence. The Betty was raised from birth to be a certain way and when she cease that Sally is different and that she thrives that way, it's like Betty's time was so wasted
I honestly think she only admitted it bc she was dying had she lived she would have continued to be the same witch she always was....
Why does society not always appreciate it when you're not cookie cutter?
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 mother daughter relationships are very complicated
As bad as that generation was as parents, they loved their kids like every generation does. They just sucked ass at teaching those children anything
My favorite thing about Sally Draper is in Kiernan Shepka's performance. She's SO good at picking up the subtleties and nuances of Don & Betty that I was convinced she was actually their child. It makes sense cause she was cast SO young, and the actors with which she had the most scenes with her Jon Ham and January Jones so it's no surprise she picked up their eccentricities and put that in her performance.
I noticed that as well. Especially when sally would get mad, the way she scrunched her face and the cadence of her yelling was very similar to betty
That's a fascinating observation. What with the way we pick things up from grown-ups when we're still children, I wonder if Kiernan Shepka finds herself acting or talking like her TV parents even now in real life.
Spoilers:
Sally becomes a witch...
Ahahahahaaaa
Waaaaaaa
The clothes are kind of the same as well
Well in the 60's they did use to say that feminism makes women become lesbians and practice witchcraft! SO one of those was bound to happen!
She became like her dad working in the advertising business and married Glenn not Glenn from THE WALKING DEAD but Glenn from MAD MEN and made baby boy name him Don Draper jr
Damn, she's an incredible actor. At such a young age too.
This channel is a gem.
Kiernan Shipka was a great child actress and she’s grown to be an even better adult actress with Blackcoat’s Daughter and the new Sabrina series. Can’t wait to see what she does next
I hate the Sabrina series but I love her. I wish she would've gotten into a better show.
I think the Sabrina series wouldn't be as great if she were not in it. Her acting really does make it better. Makes it stand out from shows like Riverdale
She was just 15 in the blackcoats daughter and 18 in Sabrina, so not exactly a grown adult...
I always thought that a perfect representation of Sally's character shined through in the scene with the crazy lady robbing the apartment. She is very uncertain at first and we can tell and after a while you can't tell anymore if the woman is fooling her or if she's playing along. Sally always had to be high alert and rely on instinct because no one was teaching her what she needed to know and that scene represented it in the perfect way.
I identified with Sally more than with any other character on Mad Men. My parents divorced early in my life, my family has always been fractured, my parents hated one another and I was always caught in the crossfire. I became a very isolated person, preferred to be alone, I felt like no one wanted or loved me. I was terrified of people leaving me like so many had in my life. So much of Sally's behavior mirrored how I felt and behaved at her age. I was happy to see Sally develop her own identity and be so different from Don and Betty, which is something I was never able to do. To this day, I still have no idea who I am or where I'm headed, and I'm often just as angry as my parents were. Probably worth noting that I have BPD.
fistbump
I identified with her when I started watched at 12 then identified most with Pete 8 years later when the show ended. Pete or Ken.
I agree with you 100 percent
@ Marc Shanahan I feel you. None of us really get away from our childhood traumas and our parents' personality flaws and the family dynamics. (I sure did not.) I don't believe very many people really know who they are at any age. You are okay the way you are.
Carla the Destructor --Well said 🌺Coming from a marriage that should have had a divorce...”stayed together because of the kids”....so they seemed to hate & resent us all. Even determine to be opposite of your parents doesn’t give you a road map on HOW to be. Most everyone feels disjointed and out of sync with others. You aren’t alone🌹
She isn't like Don. She isn't like Betty. She represents the best and worst of both of them.
u smart
How the worst?
So she is like them then.
@@SuperJerk97 Impulsivity
Nothing of the worst
The show is about advertising-- chasing happiness through consumerism. Sally has it all, materially, and she is a study in the failures of consumerism to ensure happiness. Her financially secure childhood is a stark contrast to Don's depression-era childhood, but the show couldn't make it clearer, through Sally, that family, emotions and security are what matter so much more. While Don's character is defined by running away from problems and toward shallow "happiness," everything he runs from finds permanency in Sally; she's a slate that can't be erased or traded. I think one of the bravest aspects of his cowardly character is that he never turns on Sally because of this, but seems to admire her for not running.
The show needed an anti-consumerism foil to the advertising world, and in a lesser show it would have been an idealistic woman or mushy cloying plot-line about the importance of family. What they did with Sally was great.
What an insightful analysis!
How wonderfully put
I am Sally Draper; the clothes, the era, the lack of supervision..I grew up in a madmen household. This series was a time machine for me..and wonderfully mesmerizing!
Same here! I'd see her outfit and accessories and shout at the TV "I had one just like that!" I also read books I was way to young for because no one was paying attention - In Cold Blood, Portnoy's Complaint, The Godfather
Sally reading Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire with Grandpa Gene was my favorite Sally scene. So great.
Baby Boomers were the first generation marketed to as a generational demographic. Considering that this show is about marketing I can't help but think that Sally represents the first generation that was marketed to from cradle to grave. Childhood as a psychological stage wasn't popularized until Baby Boomers. The Silent Generation (generation before Boomers) never had what we would call a childhood as we know it today. Boomers were the first generation that had Dr Spock, and the idea that kids shouldn't have to work to help support the family, the first generation that didn't see kids as an economic resource, but as consumers. Parents were supposed to spend money on kids, the kids weren't there to generate money for their parents by working on a farm or a family business. So while we see Sally as being put in grownup situations, not allowed to have a childhood, I do not think that those ideals were fully formed at the time that Sally came along. Her parents surely didn't grow up that way.
As a Baby Boomer I can say you don’t know what you are talking about.
Juliaoceania yes
As a Gen Xer its a misnomer that all parents were BOOMERS Some parents we born between 1930 and 44 That means Xers were born to the SILENT GENERATION
Some of this I can agree, but with marketing and generationing, it has not done good. Essentially, kids and teens are objects for both parents and marketers, and suffer similarly as women in Mad men. You can see it still today. Didnt have to work (for money) has turned to work emotionally in some way, which is worse.
You're right that's when the first break up happened. 💔
By the end of the series, Sally had my favorite character arc, even over Peggy.
Ugh i hate myself for not watching season 5to7. I have the DVDs but i became busier. I hope to finish this show soon.
@@charmedprince I rewatch the series, start to finish, every year. On each rewatch, something new strikes me. It was metaphorically BRILLIANT.
@@coleslawYSJ I wish I could do the same. But building an empire is so time consuming that one even forgets there are shows that need a-finishing. Same with Boardwalk Empire, I have the last season DVD but still haven't watched it yet. One of these days I'll just drop everything on the floor, sit down in front of the tv and bingewatch
@Juliana Silva 😘
@@charmedprince Season 5 was my fav
I was around Sally’s age during the ‘60s and early ‘70s, and the bit about her serving drinks to her parents’ guests at their dinner parties is very accurate for that generation, I did the same thing
Sally: I didn't do anything.
Betty: Ok Boomer.
This officially made me feel bad for mocking boomers. They had to deal with the effects of neglectful parents AND the effects of spoiling their own kids.
😂😂😂
@@dim9753 Idk, man. It's not like every parent back then was super abusive and it's not like no parent now is abusive. It's up to you to adapt and not be a dick.
@@dim9753 no i noticed (im a millenial my mom was a boomer. she died of lung cancer when i was a senior in high school but she smoked most of her life.) many of my friends' parents and mine expected so much from us: athletics, academics, etc. also IMO many ppl including my mom thought "girly" was frivolous or it's best to "keep your mouth shut" and not speak up (i wont sit by ill speak up IDC honestly sometimes it's right though) also she thought i was shallow but looks matter also we girls are judged so harshly for how we look and behave way more than boys are. so much for feminism and women's rights! also another highly valued trait was being sensible. it's like hello. most teens aren't sensible. some people just are suck ups; they don't respect honesty
oooh19 so what you want to say is that you are not spoiled?
I think almost anyone who's grown up in a conventional home, where appearance matters so much to the point where real feelings and affection are ignored, can somehow relate to Sally. So sad but glad she came out alright.
Me
Me
Yeah, I was going to say, Sally's isn't just a Boomer's story.
I can really relate to Sally. I was born in 1954, lived in an upper middle class NYC suburb and my name is Sally. The 60's really were like that.
I liked Sally. She was about a year older than I was in those days, and my father was also a high functioning, creative, charming, handsome, alcoholic narcissist. I saw a lot of my childhood in hers, and I actually had some of the clothes she wore in the show.
As a boomer, that dry cleaning bag made me laugh out loud. My brother and I did this all the time to play “astronaut”
That’s wild 😂
She went to live with her aunties in greendale and developed a steady hand at witchcraft
Nameless human Sabrina!
I was born in 1953 so I remember much of what I saw in Madman. My folks let me watch serious news my dad made me watch the 1960 Kennedy Nixon debates. Maybe this is why I like the show so much.
The "ooze" line was hands down the BEST and unabashedly iconic. The writers really did an amazing job with a child's character for a TV show
The thing that struck me the most was Don's and Betty's reaction to Sally's plea for consolation after Gene died. That really showed how uninterested they were in her, her feelings and her development. To cry and to get told to go watch TV? Jesus. Not sure if all parents of that generation were like them, but the officer who brings the news of Gene's death also closed the door to Sally, even though she is shocked.
It was relatively common. Not necessarily to Betty’s extent, but certainly there. I’m a Millennial that had a strange mix of helicopter parenting at times but left for the telly to raise the rest of the time. My mother would tell me about her upbringing and how cruel it just was, and how she was trying to understand her children despite never having had that modelled as a child herself. As a kid herself, she was cleaning up her baby brother’s soiled bed to save him a beating. She was about 8 years old, and I’ve seen photos (rare) of family back then, and my mum was about 7, holding her baby brother on her hip. Other younger brother leaning towards her too. Her parents had an even harder life, of course. My grandma started working at the age of 14 full time and the money went straight to her abusive and alcoholic father. She was the eldest of about 8 kids (6 were half siblings from her stepmother), and she would work extra fast and earn a little more to hide away. She saved, and saved and her first independent purchase was a washcloth with soap. Her next one was a comb. Not even for just herself, but to wash and care for her siblings. Her home life was misery.
My grandpa started working part time in physical jobs at 11, then full time at 12. But at least his mother was strong and kind and even after her first husband passed, she kept her 2nd one in line to treat her kids well. He was about the 3rd of 12 kids or so.
It’s little wonder they were ill-equipped for raising their kids. At least they only had 3!
My mother was wonderful, but married an abusive narcissist who everyone believed had “saved” her, because she had had 1 child at 17 out of wedlock, my older sister. I still don’t know how my mum lived through all that and is still kind, funny and resilient. She and my father sheltered us way too much from the world. My father said it was to keep us safe, so she agreed, but it was more about control for him, as we found out eventually.
I was not prepared for adulthood when I suddenly left home at 18 when my mother remarried fairly suddenly. So I had to learn on my own.
I now have kids and honestly, it feels like so much pressure, to read and be up to date, to try to not cause trauma, to help them but also let them develop resilience. We try our best.
And wow. That was an essay that no-one will read on an old video. 😂
People often return to videos like this, and read the comments.
@@marabanara I read your comment (essay)! 🙂 (I posted this on Dec 18, 2023).
Boomer here. Mine were like that. They put our hard-to-housebreak dog down without telling us first. I cried when they told me, and I was scolded because I didn't help clean up her messes so I had no right to be upset. Implied it was partially my fault that the dog was dead. No lie.
I’m so glad you did this on Sally. I identified with Sally. I have tried to break away from my parents dysfunctional ways. I love my family,but it’s ok to search for you’re own path.
I love sally as a character Because she is just so relatable. When I was a kid no one listened to me and know one knew or believed that I would notice what they didn’t think I would. I would just oppress my feelings and talk to myself a lot as well as writing in my diary A LOT with many many details that no one would have thought I would.
I used to rout for Sally when she rebelled against her mother as Betty was so cruel towards her.
THEY SHOULD DO A SALLY SPIN OFF IN THE 80'S WHEN SHE'S IN HER 30'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yaaaassss
I'd love to see it, just hope she doesnt turn out like Betty that would be heartbreaking
@@jameskiely8703 IT WOULD MAKE FOR GREAT TV THOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seconded
That scene where she is grieving her grandpa makes me cry real tears. everytime, even in short clips like this 😢
Never clicked on a video so fast, love the mad men breakdowns!
I want a Sal video next. "The gay man refusing to be who he is"
@@kylemagaro231 I loved Sal so much! By the end of the show I was hoping to see him at least once but didn't, so I thought that maybe Sal's story wasn't as good as I remembered. I rewatched and felt like it was even better on the rewatch.
@@MyssBlewm Apparently they almost brought him back in the final season to wrap things up, but Matthew Weiner wanted to keep it ambiguous. His story is the second most tragic after Lane Pryce's of course.
I'm a millennial born in 90's but my father was part of the silent generation so this actually gave me insight into myself being raised
I love the care that went into crafting every character in this show. (Of course, it helps when you're lucky enough to discover the fantastic Kiernan Shipka and cast her as Sally.)
This just shows the reason why they should make a Mad Men spin-off with Sally in the 70s and have cameos with her father once in a while and her brothers/aunt & uncle, as she meets her spouse in college like a lot of baby boomers did in the early 70s. Then we see the rest of her 70s misadventures :D
Kiernan said that if they make a Sally Draper spin off, she would've been in L.A. instead being in New York which is interesting. Imagine like a series where Sally pursue a Hollywood acting career, that would've been cool
I sympathised so much with Sally. I eventually worked out my parents weren’t going to give me anything worthwhile so I had to be strong for myself.
oh mad men is greater than stranger things, that show is just a service to the 80s while mad men uses the 60s as a tool for a wider commentary of today with the parallels between then and now. mad men blows that show out of the waters on everything
Lawrence Fernandez why are you comparing the two? Those shows are completely different.
Lawrence Fernandez
Mad men is good but it’s also a complete snooze fest
@@jahimjauh-hey5653 bc they mentioned Stranger Things in the video and compared to how ST romanticizes the 80s childhood freedom while Mad Men shows the damaging effect of parental neglect in the 60s
@@lancefairbank3311 ooh fuck.... my bad.
Stranger Things is more pastiche than real synthesis--that's where Mad Men beats it. Mad Men is a complex drama that doesn't really tie itself to any one genre; Stranger Things is very much genre in its tropes and style. Just going for different things, though I obviously prefer Mad Men much more, lol.
Sally is a great character and played by a very, very good actress.
One of my favorite parts of Mad Men is her conversation with Roger Sterling.
Sally: “You’re wrecking the speeches.
Roger: “You’re a mean drunk. You know that?” (S5, E7)
betty did a number on her and she still turned out to be a nice person.
When I first watched the show, I could not stand Sally. I figured she was a bratty ungrateful child. But I was 15 and worshipping Don Draper.
But when i watched it again and again. I began to realize the toxic relationship with her parents. I'm glad this breakdown was given because I have a more understanding.
@Beth’s Blog can you explain how she's bratty?
@Beth’s Blog Yeah and she's a child and her mother is an adult. That says more about Betty than it says about Sally.
I legitimately thought she was a bad actress when I watched the show 5-6 years ago. But she's great
I still think she was ungrateful. She only cried because her mother is dying.
@@julietaayala943 some ppl automatically think the kids are terrible and the parents are doing what's best for them but not always the case.
Sally really reminds me of all the things my mom told me about her childhood. The neclecting especially. My mom was given to an aunt when she was very young, because the family didn't have enough money and place for her and her brother. She didn't return home until the age of seven
Thank you for creating this video--a LOT of subscribers were asking for it. The character of Sally Draper is one of the most challenging ones in Mad Men, and Kiernan Shipka was perfect-a powerhouse.
Sally only turns out okay because she literally steps back and looks at both her parents and is like "fuck I don't want to be like them."
The only time she gets along with Betty is when Betty gets cancer and is completely humbled.
They had SO much luck with Kiernan, she has grown with the series to be such a great actress. I remember the way she was really mad in one episode when she was at the office, she ran away and fell, it was amazing performance and it was before she was so grown. All the characters are so well written. You can just see the way life influence their personalities, you can really see how the death of grandpa Gene affects Sally for so long. It's just amazing!
Kiernan Shipka, a precociously fantastic, naturalistically expressive actress. Always plausible.Tatum O'Neil calibre: were her Sally Draper performance in a film, she'd be Oscar worthy.
Just watching this video reminds me so much of my mother, who was born in 1958 and passed away in 2012. My mother's upbringing did differ from Sally's in a few ways. My family's black and my mom's early childhood was spent in very white neighborhoods in New Jersey, so she faced racism from a young age. And my grandparents were a bit younger than Don and Betty when they became parents (18 and 21). While my mother didn't face a lot of the outright emotional neglect of the Drapers and she had a very close relationship with her dad, a lot of the points in this video really resonates with what I learned about her upbringing.
My mom and her mother had a very dysfunctional relationship that really only got patched up once I was born in '96. I distinctly remember my mom telling me that she often felt like her mother never wanted her, but was stuck with her because she had no other choice in the late '50s.
At age six, I realized that I'd never heard my mother call my grandmother "mom" or "mommy" and she told me that she hadn't been allowed to address her mother that way starting from the age of ten or so. It struck me as so weird. Looking back now, I realize my mom spent so much of her time making sure I knew she loved me and that I was wanted. Because she rarely felt that way growing up. She was also a bit of a helicopter parent, too. And I say all of this even though I really loved my grandmother. She was a huge part of my childhood and I was devastated when passed away last year.
On of my friends wife’s mother is like that in many ways
Your voice is so alluring. Everytime I watch a video of yours I get lost till the very end. Makes me feel nostalgic about the shows I've watched and makes me want to view people as a culmination of their experiences and try to know them better . Thank you for this . Sometimes I feel that TH-cam is my safe space when people I meet irl don't understand me . One of the greatest shows ever 💓.
Man - another fantastic video. My opinion is - Mad Men is head and shoulders above any other television series. There's Mad Men, and everything else. Sally Draper could have been a secondary character with little to say and have little impact on the series, but she ends up representing an entire generation - entirely on her own shoulders. She is the best written child character to ever be on television, and Kiernan Shipka was a good enough actress to pull it off. And some of her scenes were laugh out loud funny when she starts to mimic her parents - but also a little sad - and that's really hard for any actor to pull of convincingly. I hope there's more Mad Men videos coming. All of them have been so right on.
Even Breaking Bad and The Wire?
No wonder kiernan is such a good actress. She's been killing it since she was a kid.
Excellent video..my parents WERE Don & Betty Draper and I am the same age as Sally Draper.
This video is way better than any therapy I ever had.
yea people shell out big bucks for therapy but just sometimes need something else
The thing is its not that Betty or Don area not being great parents, they are behaving and teaching children things they know and what parents in that time were like. My grandma she is in her 80s she is like Betty how woman should dress, talk, take care of children, cooks and works only if she have the time for boredom but man's job is to pay and finance the rest. Today thats awful but back then it was normal. That is the reason why this show is amazing they did amazing job for presenting the time, people, events all that very realistic.
I had a really cool English teacher in high school who taught me to watch movies critically and in depth. I’m so grateful bc it’s not common sense. I understand film and books so much more precisely than I did before his class. But this is so fun to watch bc I don’t have anyone to discuss film with. I ask my husband questions like “what do you think that foreshadowing was a metaphor for?” And he’ll just shrug. Not even think about it. I couldn’t watch movies like that. I need to know everything. Every little detail. So thanks for making these! Also shoutout to Mr. Halboom 💖🙏🏼
For me Sally is the most well adjusted character on the show
Brilliant synopsis. I've watched the series start to finish, no less than 14x now, always check out different recap publications or podcasts, and while I always pick up new things, on each rewatch, it has never once occurred to me, to consider Sally as a representative, of the boomer generation.
Being an early millennial/Xenial (born in 82) to boomer parents (Dad 57, Mom 62), this video, gives me incredible insight, into how my parents' upbringing, would've affected their eventual outcome, flaws and parenting style. My parents were a mix of Don and Betty, and early helicopter parents. My sister and I weren't directly supported well, emotionally: our parents didn't hug us, or express any positive emotions, but we (myself more than my sister) weren't afforded opportunities to fail on our own. They were overbearing, in the sense that they made all decisions for us, and were at the school, micromanaging our assignments and extracurriculars. Yet we were kind of left to our own devices, inside the home: lots of TV watching, Nintendo / computer playing, and reading books, none of which was ever censored for appropriate content (I read a true crime story on local serial killer, Alan Legere, at aged 11, and began reading Stephen King at aged 10). I was also VERY sheltered, with a STRICT curfew of 9pm, regardless of weekend or school night. There was a constant fear for my parents, that I would get hurt, or into some kind of trouble. I wasn't allowed out of their bubble.
My sister once gave me some some good insight, into our upbringing, by recommending some readings on, the narcissistic parent. Our parents were emotionally distant in the house, but by all appearances on the outside, very hands on. My sister, being second born, had far fewer expectations, placed on her, than were placed on me. I was NEVER permitted, to be anything less, than perfect, and needed to have straight A's across the board. As an adult, and learning to understand that to our parents, we were mearly seen as extensions of them, myself more than my sister, greatly helped to reconcile feelings of inadequacy. The criticism I had faced growing up, had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with my parents not being able to disassociate themselves, from me. I was their first born, and they had something to prove to the world with me. If I didn't meet their perfect expectation, then to them, they were perceived as a failure.
We've all long since healed, and moved on from the emotional scars caused, in my childhood. My parents stopped helicoptering, in my mid 20's. I had a few hours or more of therapy, to learn how to be a self sufficient adult on my own, how to understand and reconcile my parents' shortcomings, and more importantly, I learned how to make decisions on my own and trust my judgement. This clip providing insight into what growing up was like for boomers, adds a next level of understanding, of my parents' upbringing, and why they parented the way they did. A good mix of old, like Don and Betty, where they kind of ignored us, and new, where they tried to protect me, as best as they could. I can clearly see where they tried to rebell and be better, than how they were raised (both sets of grandparents were totally Don and Betty), but still fell back and relied on what they knew.
I suppose each generation, is more of the same. We're all damaged in some way, and we all try to do the best we can, with the cards we were dealt.
I love and hate that I can totally identify with Sally Draper's character and story. Not that my parent's are terrible people, being born in '55 and '54 and growing up slightly more sheltered than Sally; the whole thing hits close to home in a number of ways and that's both painful and enlightening for me to know that the writers for Mad Men, and especially the characters and their ways, were some of the best out there. They really captured it well.
12:00 I love that bit about the nuance in how Don said "this is where _I_ grew up" instead of "this is where I grew up." Such a great show! And I LOVE that Kiernan Shipka :D
This is the only show that I can watch again and again. I bet I’ve seen the entire series 10 times. It’s that good.
I'm not even half-way through this and I'm ready to cry for Sally. I was a bit luckier with the parents I got, but I knew kids with parents like Sally's - they weren't rare in those days.
Thank You for this wonderful portrait of Sally Draper. I learned so much about marriage and divorce from watching this series. I understand that everyone and every parent is not perfect. Children cannot expect to have a perfect childhood. Nobody's Perfect. Everyone has a story. Thank you. I love Madmen and all of the Characters. Great Job!!!
what I wouldn't give for a Sally spinoff film
There is still hope.
Kiernan Shipka is one of the greatest female actress for me
These Mad Men analysis videos are top notch. I would not disappointed if you did a video on every major character of the show, even the ones that weren't around for the entire run.
YAAAS! In line with the trailer for chilling adventures of Sabrina season 2, what a wonderful video that not only eloquently analyzes Sally’s character but portrays what a wonderful actress Kiernan Shipka is. Another great video, thanks ScreenPrism.
I was Sally's age from those days. I totally identified with her and the memory of my young self would have crushed really hard for her.
She even attended the elementary my cousins went to.
Good for Matthew Weiner's amazing attention to detail.
So I'm a gen z-er and I've never seen this show, but Sally's childhood actually reminds me a lot of my own. I guess things haven't changed too mcuh
The child actress who plays Sally Darper is a Gen-Z too
I'm a Gen Z with a divorced parents and I couldn't have related her more and more. Whenever she's sad about her family life, I feel her cuz I know that's what it feels like to live with a divorced parents
It makes sense. Honestly, I think period shows like this say a lot more about the time it came out rather than the time it took place. If this show came out in the 80s, the family would probably be much more different.
I knew a lot of kids in the 2000s who were raised like Sally. This was back when people would call you a helicopter parent if you dared to not make your kid walk to school alone despite living in a car centric area or you talked to them for more than 5 seconds. 😂 I remember a teacher telling me my parents were helicopter parents and were "weirdos" because I told her that my family normally ate dinner together.
Mad Men breakdowns are everything. thank you ladies!
I fell out of the chair laughing, the episode Sally's driving Grandpa's Lincoln.... clearly a talented young lady.
Thank you for this, I never really understood Sally's relevance other then to be Don and Betty's punching bag and prove the notion that there a toxic couple. Don't get me wrong, I like her and genuinely had sympathy for her. Yet I never really had any TANGIBLE REASON to argue why I appreciate her. Now I do, Thanks.
This is brilliant, and SO true...never realized Sally’s significance in understanding my parents. Thank you!
Sally made me understand my parents helicopter style of parenting so much more, definitely one of my favorite characters.
My parents are from this generation, but as I am not from US I have the feeling that they act more as Sally parents. Even with the cultural differences, their traumas are pooring to their kids. It looks that my generation, in my contry, is more as Sally life mixed with TV and millenial culture.
Sally is one of the two Mad Men-characters I can relate to.
This is a really good analysis of Sally's character, and of the Boomer generation. In the media today, the Boomers get such a bad reputation, even though - as Sally shows - they were just doing the best they knew how based on their own upbringings. As you note, this is a cycle that will always repeat. Right now it's the millennials and gen z people blaming the boomers for the problems of the world, but in twenty years or so, it'll be the next generation blaming us. Finding the humanity in other generations, and trying to understand and partner with them is really the only way to move forward as a society. Otherwise we'll just be languishing in blame forever.
I don't think anyone blames X for anything. And they kinda can't. We're the first generation after the boomers that know we won't get social security. We believed the promises of the 70s, gender and race equality, environmentalism, etc. Just to see boomers treat it like a trend n throw it all away to do coke n get money in the 80s. That's when the hippie dream turned punk.
Im a millenial. I do believe we will be nore open to change than the boomers are. We are having a hard time progressing right now because these ladies and gents may be old but its a lot of them. They vote against us. We embrace open mindedness more. Some of us may have a hard time changing but we recognized change as a reality more than previous generations. We dont embrace absolutes as much as they do.
I think blame-throwing is a vice peculiar to this past half-century. Best to rid one's self of the vice as soon as possible. It's a terrible thing to model for your own children.
ppl already blame millenials and think were all spoiled but theres more to everyone than just that. plus there's still so much sexism, racism, etc shaping society
it’s so neat to think that Sally saw the moon landing as a teen and yet also would have been able to buy an iphone during or near retirement.
I’m 22 and it’s super strange to think that my own parents (who are 64, born 1957) would’ve been a few years younger than Sally.
Matthew Weiner needs to come up with a Sally Draper spin-off!
Sally Draper was born the same year and month as my mother (April 1954). I also used her character as a marker for how old my parents were when certain events happened
@WillNelson73 That's interesting. I didn't realize that the character of Sally Draper was born in April 1954. I was born in Sept 1954. No wonder so much of Mad Men seemed so familiar to me. 🙂
I want a series about Sally as an attorney in the 80s.
It sucks that they ignored Sally's brothers.
Jon Haymaker it didn’t help that there were 4 actors who played Bobby. I wonder if they focused less on him to keep the audience from noticing.
TatersUnited well I noticed, every season I was like “wait, who is this boy?” followed by a “oh it’s Bobby”, I always was hella confused 😂
Agree
I thought it was so weird how Sally became such a central character and yet Bobby was barely even given as an afterthought.. Sally basically was presented as an only child until Gene came along but even Gene was more of a vehicle to usher in the end of their parents marriage and the tie that kept them communicating afterwards as a young child will. More a plot device than an actual person. I can only really think of one single episode where Bobby had any relevance at all outside of being background scenery and that was the episode where he went on a field trip with his mom. Even THEN it didn't even really go into that much about who he was or what he could grow into as a person as a result of having Don and Betty as his parents, it was more about just highlighting Betty's character. What an odd choice.. just everything involving Bobby was an odd choice.... there are plenty of TV shows that drop characters after the first or second season because they aren't very popular or because they aren't very relevant and I really think if they weren't going to do anything with him anyway he should have been one of them. Which is a tragedy because of all the potential lost. Sally showed us what it was like to be a little girl during the 1960's, Bobby could have showed us what it was like to be a little boy during this time. They could have gone more into the relationship development between the two characters as a result of their neglectful parents, heck, they could have had the evolving sibling dynamic between Bobby and Sally at different points in their upbringing as one of the major plot elements of the show. But as is, the only thing that comes to mind when I think of Bobby Draper is waste.
Knowing that Betty starts the series mourning her mother and Sally ends it that way, I don't have a comfort level that the boomers are all right.
Look how Sally's friend loses her dream and her violin. That's the more likely path for Sally. Her rejection of her parents values is in a way her guiding purpose. But as they reject her ( by running away and dying) she isn't left with much to fight against.
That's one of the best things about the series finale: the fate of almost every character is left open to interpretation.
Your whole Mad Men series has been amazing. Really makes me wish I could relive the show again.
Dysfunctional families are really hard to overcome....
And the worst part is that those are the most common.
Every family is dysfunctional in some way.
The casting is bang on, little Sally could pass of as Don’s daughter , the eyebrows , smug attitude lol
Is it weird that I don't even watch Mad Men and yet I long for these videos from you guys, while playing the existing ones on repeat? :')
Same dude! You're not alone. I have watched neither Breaking Bad, nor The Wire nor this show - but I have still seen all their analyses on these shows. They are _that_ good.
Bro you gotta watch Mad Men
Mad Men is really fucking amazing. It's way funnier than you would think a serious show like this to be, and everything in the show is top of the line.
GO WATCH MAD MEN NOW
Mad Man and the Sopranos are the two things you shouldn't spoil for yourself. Go watch the show.
Every time I wake up and go to youtube and see that you guys have uploaded a new Mad Men or Breaking Bad video, it's like waking up on Christmas morning. Love it!!!
Young Sally is the most underrated actor on this show by far
Priceless facial expressions.
8:05 "I'm not going, I'm not leaving, I hate it there" Perfect line delivery.
I was always in awe of her acting. Complex roll for a young person.
Absolutely LOVE these!!! Please do more of the smaller Mad Men characters!
She was so cute in the first few seasons. My heart melted everytime.
Next to Joan, Sally was always my favorite character. I actually got to be a featured extra and was sad she wasn't there
Oooo what seasons?
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 five I think, it was the harre krishna episode
I swear that scene she has with Don right before she gets on the bus is one of my favorites finally calling out her parents on all their bullshit 😂
The culture around you has a huge impact on what aspects of your generation's common attitudes you count among your own. My Boomer parents grew up in a small southern, WASPy town, where the societal changes happening were mostly confined to newspapers and TV reports, rarely touching their personal lived experience, and so retained a larger chunk of their parents' attitudes than their more metropolitan peers. They then raised me (late Gen X) primarily in a more urban, more multi-cultural environment, and we ended up with an irreconcilable generation gap, because it felt like at least two generations.
I see in her in LA. Maybe teaching or a freelance writer. She’d never stay in one job for long. She’d do poorly with bosses and in institutional settings. But she’s smart and talented enough to always have a hustle going.
She’d either be a teetotaler or have a long term drinking problem. She doesn’t seem one for moderation. Her love life would be a disaster, but she would have no romantic illusions and is fine with short term flings and actually prefers to be alone. I do not see her having kids.
I think she would be like Samantha Jones
I'm from colombia... and seeing this it reminds me of my own childhood. I'm 22 and the neglect and the helicopter parenting was always present...
Finally! Thanks for keep doing the mad men videos. Furthermore she's one of the most interest and complex characters of the series