The original starters on those engines were truly awful, and were almost a dead short in terms of current drain. They got very hot very quickly. We replaced the starter on our 451 C (same engine) about 20 years ago with a newer design (can't remember the make or model) and it made the world of difference. Also, there is a little leather diaphragm in the back of the injector pump that is most likely cracked on a machine that old and dry. Essential if you want to get it started.
Its a OM 615 engine. The fuel shut off lever on the injection pump if you push that foward it will engage start fuel, but this will definitely need glow plugs. These engines were very reliant on the glow cycle. The book actually states a glow period of 1.5 minutes. Try not to use eather a petrol rag over the manifold works alot better. They just knock on airostart. Pull the glow plugs use an oil can and put a few squirts of 15w40 in the cylinders. She'll go. Also lift that fuel tank up or put an electric pump in line. South burnett tractor parts have everything for this engine. Rebuilt the one in my 415 end of last year.
I’ve seen so many of these dozers sitting in paddocks, and been wanting to ask the question “would you sell it” but not knowing what would be involved getting one going. Thanks for this Bruce very informative
Hi Bruce, like the crawler i have one the same, still use it regularly. Very handy machine. Definitely will need to get the glow plugs working to make it start easily. Also there will be a pump on the dash to assist while cranking it's actually the stopper. There is a procedure involved. Anyway good luck.
Great video Bruce. Yes that starter when it was poling or running on two brushes is no good. Torque will be minimal and not enough speed to turn the engine over.
Hi Bruce, nice little 411c/451c. They are capable machines. Any help you need with steering clutches, track gear and rollers, just ask. My father and I rebuilt all of these things on his 455c which is a later version, but fitted with the same final drive and track gear as your one. Starter motor should be easy to find parts for or buy new as I am led to believe the engine is the same as the 411r wheeled tractor (very common here in Australia). There are 2 places in QLD which you can buy parts from. GW tractors and South Burnett tractor parts. South Burnett tractor parts have been really good to us, very helpful and willing to try and get us whatever we needed. Gene in particular has been great. Not only did he get us every part we needed for the final drive and track gear rebuild, but he managed to find us a replacement pump in Italy for our fiat which has been out of production for 50 years! It is currently in shipment. Kind regards
Thanks so much for all of this info BigRig, greatly appreciated. I might get back to you if I can get the engine running. This one is in poor condition so I’m not sure what other surprises will await. It is missing a shifter and the top plate on the transmission is just sitting lose but the owner has those parts in the shed with some new bushes apparently. Again, the person he got it off sadly has now passed away so we are learning as we go with it. Thanks again for telling us about this, stay in touch, Bruce.
Hey Bruce, your sure pick the good ones mate, love the content, go into a paddock and save and old bit of Australian machinery history. I’ll be hanging out for part two now to see you get her going and out of there. Good luck with the starter.
Dad drove a Fiat Allis dozer that had a pony motor to start the diesel. The pony had electric start off the 24v battery in a box beside the seat. The diesel was a 6 cylinder, which is probably why it had the more powerful petrol pony motor to start it. The Fiat was a good, well equipped machine that had a tilt and angle blade that was hydraulic operated. It was a revelation compared to the CatD4 equipped with a LeTauneau A frame cable operated blade by a PCU mounted on the rear above a Hyster winch.
Hi Bruce my Komatsu needed new bronze bushes in its starter, same issue you have plus the rotor was rubbing on the field windings because the bush was so worn, an hour on the lathe and happy days good as new!
Our personal experience is often seeing a piece of equipment/machinery out in people's yard that can see has been there for years and years but the owner refuses to sell it and so the equipment ends up rusting away to the point its not even worth getting it to restore and use
You need to make sure there is no carbon between the slots on the Armature commutator. I repaired armatures for 23 years and I can tell you the carbon can create a short across the segment of the comm. I would suggest something along the lines of a hacksaw blade or something and by hand use the teeth to rake out the slots on the comm. Take a look at the following th-cam.com/video/yV4B-bN814g/w-d-xo.html this will give you a good idea of what to do. And polish the comm as shown in the video.
Absolutely! I’ve save a couple of *really old* starters by a thorough clean of the commutator *and* the slots between the copper. One of these was on an old Buda diesel in a “Diamond T” truck tractor-the parts *if available* were priced like they were gold-plated!
G'day mate Just found your channel 👌 I bought an old 411c many years ago as a non runner and still have/use it l have a few steep learning curve stories 😀 Old farmer was brutal with it and finally blew piston and destroyed block with conrod from using aerostart Only thing he did right was parked it in shed before he destroyed it 😵💫😄 I always had trouble starting it when cold even after replacing glow wiring/plugs and injectors few years later starter died and couldn't believe difference when I replaced it Now starts easy all year round I've now solid mounted a little hughes backhoe attachment on the rear 👌
Thanks Tom, I hope with new bushes and brushes it will crank over that bit quicker to fire. I also agree with aero start, I am always nervous about giving to much, particularly after sitting for so long as I worry it will dry out the cylinders. Thanks for the info, Bruce.
@@bruceinaus Thanks mate After getting mine going with new engine it wouldn't seem to rev far above idle I checked inj pump diaphragm and it was ok so finally found oil bath stainless gauze above the oil (air filter) was almost blocked even though it looked clean from under side when I had a good look from above (after talking tube off) It was really bad 😵💫😀
Hi Bruce ,, Looks like a Fiat 411R on tracks ,, MF tractors are nice to drive but a bit lean on PTO hp where as the 411R went straight through and had a ton of HP at the PTO.. Good gear range with 6 gears from creeper speed that was good when we planted pineapples ,, I had an idea they were similar horse power to a MF35
You can see someone is interested in an old machine as it's in the action one carries out to get to the excitement of getting the m/c going again. Things like blowing dirt and dust off a part show me you are keen LOL😁
The big blots have M. 1 on their heads , this was the name of the Italian tank manufacturer during WW2 after that they made dozers. The fiats I worked on all had good starters. Enjoy.
Good work Bruce, currently fixing a 1947 cletrac , where did you find brushes for the starter , ive looked everywhere and can't find a supplier for the large brushes i desperatly need . 👍
how do all? the copper that is being rubbed by brushes has slots all around. use a pen knife to trowel all the damp powder crud out. also, while apart release circlip, pull bendix out and in while spraying diesel through to clear crud and then no lube or graphite dust off brushes will clog mechanism again. taztez
Is there that many snakes around there that are dangerous I live in the United States in New Hampshire and we don’t have that issue, but that’s kind of scary to me! I do love watching your show. 😊👍🏻
Yes there is. IRRC there are about 21 different venomous species in Aus. You just watch where you step and look for sign, pretty similar to living in Texas.
We have the most deadly snakes in the world. They are bastards . The eastern brown that’s around there are extremely deadly with nasty neurotoxin that shuts down your nervous system in 30 minutes. Don’t get to hospital fast your in trouble
That looks like a Minneapolis Moline crawler, a fairly rare breed. I´ll be dipped if this hunk-a-junk really fires off. It looks so far gone even I´d scrapped it without much remorse. Can´t save ´em all- some need to go so the others get parts. Kind Regards
Don't worry about pandering to Greta, Klaus and their ilk Bruce........ bit of diesel/oil on the ground won't hurt anyone in the long run. Long as it's not running into a watercourse...... If someone had been spraying a diesel/oil mix around all that gear and the fencelines the world'd be a better place. Soldier on Mate.
Enough to keep ya on ur toes.... 😅 They got sharks on the coast near the beaches several snakes and spiders and plenty of other things. Africa probably still has more to worry about with the animals tho.
What do think. Run old fuel. Lots of oil in the fuel. Plus it turns to a thinner. Will clean the system. Then ad new deziel. ? But filters are full of shit changed? Sorry i ask questions. Your thinking. ?
most of that old equipment has been run in 40 years or more after the last person quite using it 😮😮 and hasn't anything done 2 it since it left 👈 the factory 🏭 when it was brand new the starter and generator hasn't been rebuilt either 😮😮 OMG 9 11 2O23
I think thats just a US thing. Its no different than the non red diesel so if they dont have cheaper diesel for ag use in the same way it'd make no sense to dye it.
Google says no, all diesel is road taxed but you can get that tax back later. Instead of avoiding the tax upfront like in the US. So yeah no red dyed diesel down there
7:38 Bruce says ''there's a bucket under there now to catch all that diesel'' Though we cant see it, i have no doubt its there! He certainly comes across as a decent sort of rural bloke that wouldn't want to damage the environment.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
The original starters on those engines were truly awful, and were almost a dead short in terms of current drain. They got very hot very quickly. We replaced the starter on our 451 C (same engine) about 20 years ago with a newer design (can't remember the make or model) and it made the world of difference. Also, there is a little leather diaphragm in the back of the injector pump that is most likely cracked on a machine that old and dry. Essential if you want to get it started.
Its a OM 615 engine.
The fuel shut off lever on the injection pump if you push that foward it will engage start fuel, but this will definitely need glow plugs. These engines were very reliant on the glow cycle. The book actually states a glow period of 1.5 minutes. Try not to use eather a petrol rag over the manifold works alot better. They just knock on airostart. Pull the glow plugs use an oil can and put a few squirts of 15w40 in the cylinders. She'll go. Also lift that fuel tank up or put an electric pump in line.
South burnett tractor parts have everything for this engine. Rebuilt the one in my 415 end of last year.
I had a om 636 bullet proof ⚓🛠️🍻
I never get tired watching your video's Bruce . You are one awesome mechanic for sure .
Great videos Bruce
Thanks very much, Bruce
would love to see an update on this!
Mate i appreciate your time. Not many Australian you tube channels. ) but old school i love. God bless old mate. )
Hey Mick thanks for tuning in and your positive comments, means a lot. God Bless, cheers, Bruce.
An electrician once told me that once smoke starts coming out of anything electrical, it's pretty hard to get it back in.😮
I really enjoy watching you wake up there old sleeping beauty's, well done Mate !!!
I’ve seen so many of these dozers sitting in paddocks, and been wanting to ask the question “would you sell it” but not knowing what would be involved getting one going. Thanks for this Bruce very informative
I like these little crawlers! They seem almost doable as a resto project in a suburban garage setting. Cheers Bruce!
Hi Bruce, like the crawler i have one the same, still use it regularly. Very handy machine. Definitely will need to get the glow plugs working to make it start easily. Also there will be a pump on the dash to assist while cranking it's actually the stopper. There is a procedure involved. Anyway good luck.
Great video Bruce. Yes that starter when it was poling or running on two brushes is no good. Torque will be minimal and not enough speed to turn the engine over.
Hi Bruce, nice little 411c/451c.
They are capable machines. Any help you need with steering clutches, track gear and rollers, just ask. My father and I rebuilt all of these things on his 455c which is a later version, but fitted with the same final drive and track gear as your one. Starter motor should be easy to find parts for or buy new as I am led to believe the engine is the same as the 411r wheeled tractor (very common here in Australia).
There are 2 places in QLD which you can buy parts from. GW tractors and South Burnett tractor parts. South Burnett tractor parts have been really good to us, very helpful and willing to try and get us whatever we needed. Gene in particular has been great. Not only did he get us every part we needed for the final drive and track gear rebuild, but he managed to find us a replacement pump in Italy for our fiat which has been out of production for 50 years! It is currently in shipment.
Kind regards
Thanks so much for all of this info BigRig, greatly appreciated. I might get back to you if I can get the engine running. This one is in poor condition so I’m not sure what other surprises will await. It is missing a shifter and the top plate on the transmission is just sitting lose but the owner has those parts in the shed with some new bushes apparently. Again, the person he got it off sadly has now passed away so we are learning as we go with it. Thanks again for telling us about this, stay in touch, Bruce.
Hi Bruce, your joy to watch thank you
Hi Bruce , hope to see it in motion in the future . Cheers 🍺
Waiting for part 2. Good luck with the starter motor rebuild.
You're a very clever man and you have a lot of patience
Hey Bruce, your sure pick the good ones mate, love the content, go into a paddock and save and old bit of Australian machinery history. I’ll be hanging out for part two now to see you get her going and out of there. Good luck with the starter.
Thanks for the well wishes, I’m going to need them with this one I think 😂!
Life is learning. Wa out back. I allways learn. And i loved it old mate. )
Thanks for the video Bruce. Just discovered your channel today and find it very interesting. You are a very good communicator 👍
Dad drove a Fiat Allis dozer that had a pony motor to start the diesel. The pony had electric start off the 24v battery in a box beside the seat. The diesel was a 6 cylinder, which is probably why it had the more powerful petrol pony motor to start it. The Fiat was a good, well equipped machine that had a tilt and angle blade that was hydraulic operated. It was a revelation compared to the CatD4 equipped with a LeTauneau A frame cable operated blade by a PCU mounted on the rear above a Hyster winch.
Hello Bruce, enjoying your show, Was wondering when are you getting back to this Fiat 411C, My Father is Keen to see it fire up. Regards Alan
Looking forward to next video
Hi, new to the channel, like your presentation, NO BS. Haha, many thanks from Nr Liverpool UK.
Hi Bruce my Komatsu needed new bronze bushes in its starter, same issue you have plus the rotor was rubbing on the field windings because the bush was so worn, an hour on the lathe and happy days good as new!
U is the 1st clas in beldozer enginearing . Tq sir
Great video Bruce
Arghh! what a tease! :)
love the content, can't wait for part II
I wish I was your son, I’d absorb as much knowledge as I could.
A lot of work but much progress made, nice one Bruce, close to a result.
I'm looking forward to the next battle bruce
Thank you Bruce. You have my attention! (from USA Indiana)
Fellow indianian tuning in!
Must be thousands of 411R tractor starters around, which will interchange, very popular with Italian market gardeners.
Our personal experience is often seeing a piece of equipment/machinery out in people's yard that can see has been there for years and years but the owner refuses to sell it and so the equipment ends up rusting away to the point its not even worth getting it to restore and use
You need to make sure there is no carbon between the slots on the Armature commutator. I repaired armatures for 23 years and I can tell you the carbon can create a short across the segment of the comm. I would suggest something along the lines of a hacksaw blade or something and by hand use the teeth to rake out the slots on the comm. Take a look at the following th-cam.com/video/yV4B-bN814g/w-d-xo.html this will give you a good idea of what to do. And polish the comm as shown in the video.
Thanks very much for this, I will do that. Best wishes, Bruce
Absolutely! I’ve save a couple of *really old* starters by a thorough clean of the commutator *and* the slots between the copper. One of these was on an old Buda diesel in a “Diamond T” truck tractor-the parts *if available* were priced like they were gold-plated!
G'day mate
Just found your channel 👌
I bought an old 411c many years ago as a non runner and still have/use it l have a few steep learning curve stories 😀
Old farmer was brutal with it and finally blew piston and destroyed block with conrod from using aerostart
Only thing he did right was parked it in shed before he destroyed it 😵💫😄
I always had trouble starting it when cold even after replacing glow wiring/plugs and injectors few years later starter died and couldn't believe difference when I replaced it
Now starts easy all year round
I've now solid mounted a little hughes backhoe attachment on the rear 👌
Thanks Tom, I hope with new bushes and brushes it will crank over that bit quicker to fire. I also agree with aero start, I am always nervous about giving to much, particularly after sitting for so long as I worry it will dry out the cylinders. Thanks for the info, Bruce.
@@bruceinaus
Thanks mate
After getting mine going with new engine it wouldn't seem to rev far above idle
I checked inj pump diaphragm and it was ok so finally found oil bath stainless gauze above the oil (air filter) was almost blocked even though it looked clean from under side when I had a good look from above (after talking tube off)
It was really bad 😵💫😀
They're a hard starter in winter , 90 second glow recommended in the manual plus adding some petrol to the diesel in real cold conditions
I can just imagine it would be hard to start with the block destroyed.
Hi Bruce ,, Looks like a Fiat 411R on tracks ,, MF tractors are nice to drive but a bit lean on PTO hp where as the 411R went straight through and had a ton of HP at the PTO..
Good gear range with 6 gears from creeper speed that was good when we planted pineapples ,,
I had an idea they were similar horse power to a MF35
You can see someone is interested in an old machine as it's in the action one carries out to get to the excitement of getting the m/c going again. Things like blowing dirt and dust off a part show me you are keen LOL😁
I can wait. 😊
Did you ever do a part 2?
It appears that we’ll never know. Quite possibly the machine fell into an abyss.
17:55 ahhh the magic flying rag, Just wondering did u get the parts to finish this job? i cant find a second video on it
The big blots have M. 1 on their heads , this was the name of the Italian tank manufacturer during WW2 after that they made dozers. The fiats I worked on all had good starters. Enjoy.
Whipper snipped lol thats a new one for me
Strimmers In the UK, Weed eaters In the US. lol
@@ianburit3705 Weed Wacker* in the US
esperamos maestro la segunda parte.gracias por sus videos saludos desde venezuela
Great 👍🏻 job
In the eighties on the Mercedestrucks, changing coalbrushes was a common thing.
Ah. Whipper snipper is Aussie for weed wacker. Learn something new every day
We call them a weedeater where I live.
We call them strimmers where I live. @@brockmitchell3989
Great video good coverage and commentary
Very interesting.
Good work Bruce, currently fixing a 1947 cletrac , where did you find brushes for the starter , ive looked everywhere and can't find a supplier for the large brushes i desperatly need . 👍
Onya Bruce, watch out for the wriggly sticks......
Absolutely sir I salute you.
Love watching old men working on old machines, great stuff, cheers from Downunder ❤️🦘🦘🦘
Great vid, enjoy your content, Whens the sequel to this vid coming out Bruce.
Love the videos Have you ever found any Brown Snakes in the equipment you tinker around with.
This is so cool
Thank you, Bruce.
Looking forward to it
Excellent ☘️🇮🇪
love the videos bruce, please turn the HDR off the iphone though cameraman! Cheers
how do all? the copper that is being rubbed by brushes has slots all around. use a pen knife to trowel all the damp powder crud out. also, while apart release circlip, pull bendix out and in while spraying diesel through to clear crud and then no lube or graphite dust off brushes will clog mechanism again. taztez
Is there that many snakes around there that are dangerous I live in the United States in New Hampshire and we don’t have that issue, but that’s kind of scary to me! I do love watching your show. 😊👍🏻
Yes there is. IRRC there are about 21 different venomous species in Aus. You just watch where you step and look for sign, pretty similar to living in Texas.
We have the most deadly snakes in the world. They are bastards . The eastern brown that’s around there are extremely deadly with nasty neurotoxin that shuts down your nervous system in 30 minutes. Don’t get to hospital fast your in trouble
@@AndyL940 Yes you have to be very aware all the time. Personally, I never go into the bush, great show Bruce
Brown snakes have a bad disposition and are not to be trifled with.
Subbed , great channel
That looks like a Minneapolis Moline crawler, a fairly rare breed. I´ll be dipped if this hunk-a-junk really fires off. It looks so far gone even I´d scrapped it without much remorse. Can´t save ´em all- some need to go so the others get parts. Kind Regards
Do you ever come across those old Bulldog mini crawlers with the single cylinder?
Nice
That starter looks very similar to a massey 35 desiel engine
Did ya sand d armitures with emiry paaper, im tinking that would get it spining like new
Did you ever re visit this dozer ?
Hello Bruce,just found your channel,some great content.
I would like to make contact if that's possible??
Cheers Brad.
Don't worry about pandering to Greta, Klaus and their ilk Bruce........ bit of diesel/oil on the ground won't hurt anyone in the long run. Long as it's not running into a watercourse......
If someone had been spraying a diesel/oil mix around all that gear and the fencelines the world'd be a better place. Soldier on Mate.
Agree a 100%, let it go back to where it came from.
Hydrocarbons are natural rejuvenating essences of electric Earth , like blood in our veins , none of that anti science fossil remains of forests BS
So its basically a Fiat 411R with tracks
Seems like damned near every venomous creature left over from Creation was dumped Down Under! How many snakes and spiders can kill you there?
Enough to keep ya on ur toes.... 😅 They got sharks on the coast near the beaches several snakes and spiders and plenty of other things. Africa probably still has more to worry about with the animals tho.
What do think. Run old fuel. Lots of oil in the fuel. Plus it turns to a thinner. Will clean the system. Then ad new deziel. ? But filters are full of shit changed? Sorry i ask questions. Your thinking. ?
FIAT.. Fix it again bruce 😅
😎👍
most of that old equipment has been run in 40 years or more after the last person quite using it 😮😮 and hasn't anything done 2 it since it left 👈 the factory 🏭 when it was brand new the starter and generator hasn't been rebuilt either 😮😮 OMG 9 11 2O23
Puro proyecto nunca terminas uno
Sir we’re you a heavy duty mechanic.?
were*
@@opiumtrail7032 auto correct, sorry
Do you not get coloured diesel in Oz for ag use etc?
I think thats just a US thing. Its no different than the non red diesel so if they dont have cheaper diesel for ag use in the same way it'd make no sense to dye it.
Google says no, all diesel is road taxed but you can get that tax back later. Instead of avoiding the tax upfront like in the US. So yeah no red dyed diesel down there
@@jblob5764 I dont think the UK had red diesel anymore nor dose boating have tax rebated diesel.
Theres only 1 venomous snake where I live and they aren't that dangerous to a healthy kid or adult. The occasional black bear.
What a relied from the woke and terror we see on our TV. Good on yoiu Bruce.
Bjr faut faire chauffer les bougies pour qu il démarre c'est un someca c'est pas un injection directe !!!!!!!!
Algorithm booster
Get yaself some lithium batteries much crankier and lot lighter
Only if they're specifically designed for high current starting applications
Take the cover off the exhaust pipe brother!
The rust whisperer
.
Muito falatório e pouca ação 😅
Here in Germany you would have ended up in prison after rinsing the diesel pump in this way... 💩
what do you mean?
@@izaacbanks3337 To me it looks as if the diesel is getting into the soil?
@@cagr4249 probably. I wasn't sure if you where talking about the environment or getting dirt into the fuel system
7:38 Bruce says ''there's a bucket under there now to catch all that diesel'' Though we cant see it, i have no doubt its there! He certainly comes across as a decent sort of rural bloke that wouldn't want to damage the environment.
diesel comes out of the ground.
Pony engines were great in the time
Didn't I see a lift pump on the injection pump?