Actually as someone who owned many Rolexes over the years, I can say with confidence if you buy a steel sports Rolex, you’re money will probably go no where even after many years. You might actually make a little. Instead of investment, I would call it a good store of value especially if you enjoy wearing them.
Honestly that's a legal disclaimer and not actual investment advice. Sp500, has performed well, but should the legal disclaimer prevent you from making the fair investment decision of buying VOO? He'll no.
Flipping luxury goods isn't investing. You can do whatever you want, but resellers are not the intended customers for a given luxury good. They're trespassers, and a trespasser shouldn't be surprised if they one day get bitten on the ass.
Haven't heard Journe's name in a couple of months. Has someone with the brand took him out of the public eye? Or have collectors just tried really hard to sweep this under the rug till they can unload watches? Was sounding like he was going to get canceled & the allegations were going to be made public, but as far as I can tell not much has been said?
I’ve never understood watch collecting. I simply buy a watch if I like it, no matter if it’s a Speedmaster or a Casio. Wearing watches is the only thing that I enjoy
Why do you assume that watch collectors do not only buy watches that they like? Or buy the brands that you mentioned? Glad you only enjoy wearing watches, but throwing shade on guys with more money and/or watches than you, that may not wear all of them, is sad IMO. You be you Bruh. Is it ok with you if people collect plates and do not eat off them all?
@wristopia4101 as opposed to the significant percentage who buy luxury goods on credit. Personally, I think dropping the price of an overseas trip on a piece of jewellery is pathological; but, you do you.
To be fair, if I can resell a watch with no loss it's already a sweet deal, I got to rent the watch for free and wear it for some time. That's what I actually do with guitars.
I’ve never lost money on a Rolex. Right now you can get SeaDweller 43s, TT GMTs Ceramics, and quasi vintage subs/GMTs are all solid buys and typically 13-15k. If you are chasing the “discontinued” game or the latest douchey release-you might be in a world of pain. But, I thank you for your investment advice nonetheless
If I got the call for the Daytona, I would end up keeping it. $10,000 extra will not change my life. Good point about selling your watch. The Dealer will give you garbage. If you sell to the individual, there is a good chance of being robbed.
Wearing a watch over years is to me worth more than money I paid for the watch. I am lucky that Rolex and Patek are the two brands that I like more than others When one decides to sell it, believe me that Rolex and Patek will retain most of its value. None of the “experts” take into account the value you get from wearing the damn watch. It is intrinsic so, for me, even more valuable than any monetary. My rule is buy what you wear and dont spend time with instagram flexing crowd and flippers
This video is more about flipping and trading than investing. Investing means holding an asset for a longer period of time. I recommend comparing the price evolution of rolex watches with SaP 500 since 2000.
Watches aren’t investments. People were conned into the belief that they are investments because of the covid/tulip mania. 99.99% of watches go down. Dont compare vintage Rolex with modern rolex think theyll go up the same. Paul newman daytona was a flop when released for example. Millions of modern Rolex’s out there and millions more are coming.
Watches are slowly going to return to a sleepier hobby how it used to be. The brands are doing everything in their power to ration supply on key models to hold their value and even then most models have slipped. During another cycle of wealth creation they may have another hay day, but time will tell
Very few watches make a good investment ~ at least those watches that us mere mortals can afford. Personally, I won’t wear a Rolex coz they’re way too common (yes, I do have one that I bought years ago, but I never ever wear it). I like wearing watches that any watch geek in the room would look at and want to see it and ask about it because they’re not common. As one of my ADs said to me (and he sells Rolex), when he goes into the gym, 50% of the guys there are wearing a Rolex. So, he doesn’t wear one either! I’ve yet to bump into someone who is wearing the same brand, let alone watch, as me (well, once, but that’s it)
You can make money on anything, the art is knowing your numbers, product and timing. I picked up a 50 euro Japanese Seiko and have been offered 5 x that multiple times. No, not a Rolex or big money, but seen this even at the lower end Seiko limited, Casio. Popular micro bands too. My last gen no wave seamaster pro, seen sold at 1000 more than I paid. Also the Rolex Submariner has trended over list for over 50 years….so are watches good investments? Often more no than yes, however if you pick wisely at any price point, you can find deals / profit.
Translation, things are finally getting back to normal. Rolex normally holds value better than most, meaning, with servicing costs and other related costs like insurance or precautions, Rolex holds value better. Yet it's still a cost.
Buying a watch used to be a trip to the watch boutique or Jewelry store and picking out the watch you could afford and what you liked . I bought my first GMT Master 16710 that way in the 90’s and I still have it to this day . Now due to all the hype and the flippers it’s made buying a watch for your father or your son a real pain . I bought my father a Tudor BB58 blue dial and bezel for 4k because I waited for months for the Rolex AD to try to get me a simple No Date Submariner for my father . After 7 months I just bought the Tudor for my father . He loves it and wears it everyday . I will be giving my watches to my Daughter . Hopefully my grandchildren will have them when they are old enough . Don’t fall for the hype and buy other things just to get a Rolex , get a rolex because it represents a milestone in your life or a gift for a loved one . In the end you want the watch for what it is made for and that is telling time, not waiting to be sold in the future .
Maybe I’m one of the simpletons. I just want to own the horology inside the watch. A Rolex is excellent. I want to buy one but to keep it. Hand it down.
Thank you. To me, watches are depreciable luxurious goods, where there is only a handful of brands and certain specific models that are above retail. Now let's assume the meaning of investment: value creation (i.e. we should look for gains). On the basis of 80% (ish) of watches are down ~30% (or more) the moment you walk out the door of a boutique, I do agree it is not an investment. I cannot even classify it as value retention for losing so much. Also, what you need to WAIT in a boutique? does not mean you will be gaining. That happens with a lot of non-independent brands. On the other hand, if you pick up a great condition piece in a secondary market, you shall be able to achieve value retention on the watch. So rule #1 really understand and compare different brands, their models, history, specialty, and then #2 buy what you love.
You are so right John P. Watches are not assets. Very few high end, unique pieces could be but the most are subject of depreciation. Thank you for the advice!
No one ever went broke buying a Rolex Sub/GMT variant buying Rolex. It’s not exactly an annuity, but then again your cash really isn’t in the bank anyway
I still own an Explorer 1655, i bought new, back in March 1978, at the Cardiff branch of Watches of Switzerland, for the handsome price of £525. Just try and purchase a full set version for less than £19k, you can't. I see the watch as a valuable asset, that i know i can sell for a lot of money if i have to. I don't need to sell the watch, and as it was my first ever watch purchase, i have no plans to ever sell it. Being worth all that money, is just a bonus, but it proved to be a very good investment, so please do not say Rolex watches are not good assets, because they most certainly are.
Totally agree. No matter cheap watches (which admittedly makes most of my collection) to luxury watches, I no longer care much about resale value. I’d never buy a Rolex again in the grey market cause I lost money every time when I let those pieces go. Put my name down for the 2023 Kermit at the local AD and if I don’t get the call, no harm done. I’d simply buy what I enjoy from another watchmaker.
My first Rolex a GMT in 1967. I’ve owned Between 15 - 20 Rolex’s. My favourite is my 2022 Pepsi. The so called collector and secondary market are one reason ROLEX have been so hard to find. These collectors don’t care about the watch itself all they’re looking for is return on their money. Not to mention making it impossible to buy a new ROLEX today from your AD for the person who genuinely wants to own a Rolex .
Rolex Sports models, do make good LONG term investments, as they rarely lose any of their value, and will increase in value over the years. The only issue, is that most people are not prepared to wait many years, to see a return on their money. They want an instant profit on their watch, and if that can't be achieved, they get bored, and often sell the watch for a small loss. If you can sit on your non date Submariner or Daytona, for the long term, it will show you a good return on your money. Rolex will always be a coveted watch brand, and who knows what the market will do in the long term, but you won't lose money on them, that's a guarantee.
Watches like Rolex at least have residual value. I have a lot of budget watches and all of them have practically no residual value. Yes, I agree, a Rolex is not an investment. If you decide to sell your Rolex you should get back a substantial amount of what you paid for it. I wouldn't expect to make a profit. Rolex retains some value. That is a big positive for the brand.
The best investment watch is the one that makes you feel good, look confident, attracts the right kind of attention, and gives you an aura of success. This, in turn, can lead to a better-paying job and an even more successful career 😎
Is a Rolex watch an investment generating a consistent and regular return, no. A keeper of value allowing you to wear the watch and recover at least 65% of the money spent if you need to sell, yes. Depending on the model and condition.
FYI you can convert US cash into other kinds of cash anywhere in the world. Credit and debit cards can convert and extract cash from ATM’s anywhere in the world. Your Rolex can be stolen or scammed from you anywhere in the world .
@@JohnPWatches Best of luck in your new endeavours, John. I think the idea of selling your Rolex in a sketchy 3rd world country in an emergency is probably a story from 40 years ago.
People who buy rolex just for invest just parazite the market,if you bug a watch its just for wear it,use it and apreciate it,if you can sell it a good price when you want to change,great,but dont have to be the first reason...
A very interesting and sobering talk. I especially liked the part about international matters that nobody takes into account when it comes to the watch market.
Sorry, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. Rolex watches are an asset even from past history when you bought the toner for $207 and now it’s like 25 30,000 what do you call that give me a break
Investment involves studying market knowledge, owning an asset has nothing to do with investment. Owning an asset hoping the value will go up over time is just gambling.
Absolute garbage! Your philosophy is equally applicable to just about anything. I think you are confusing "Flipping" with investment, the two are distinctly different. Flipping is the pursuit of quick money, whereas an asset is acquired to generate an unspecified, future financial return. In other words, something that can be sold later at a higher price than you paid for it.
I'm a collector and have zero problem talking about it 🙄 Rolex bought at retail are pretty much guaranteed to never lose money over the long term. Omega is like buying an EV at list 😂
There are certain markets that a watch “dealer” will not touch. Those who touches either earn the gains or face the loss. I believe most watch dealers chooses to deal with a market familiar with themselves.
Agree. Nice that one could buy a Rolex and if they don’t have an heir to pass it on to, that they know that they could get their money back if they got bored with it. The biggest issue isn’t investing but short term profiteering. And Rolex could easily stop it but obviously aren’t going to.
Yeah, there was some odd energy in the last joint videos they did over the past year - they just didn’t seem “connected”. Maybe was always that way and I was late to notice 🤷🏽
The only reason you would do a 'DO NOT Invest in Rolex Watches' video at this point in time is to make TH-cam cash off of the back of Rolex. How do you know if another bubble is not on its way in the future? Did you predict the last one?
Nothing new here! I disagree, owning a Rolex long term means you will get a solid return on your investment. Some models more than others retain there value and even appreciate. Buying Rolex at retail is more often than not a much better investment than competitors.
That Bull, really? Member of Rolex haters club are you? Fact Rolex retains value better than any other brand period. Bought my 3 at AD and all are above retail at present time. You want to complain about availability, you have a point. But go ahead and by a grand Seico, Omega or similar watch and you'll lose money the second you hut the door. By the way don't need luck, I know what I'm talking about as well as what I'm doing. Cheers to you though.
Actually as someone who owned many Rolexes over the years, I can say with confidence if you buy a steel sports Rolex, you’re money will probably go no where even after many years. You might actually make a little. Instead of investment, I would call it a good store of value especially if you enjoy wearing them.
You're highly biased by how the market has behaved so far. Past performance are not predictive of future performance.
Honestly that's a legal disclaimer and not actual investment advice.
Sp500, has performed well, but should the legal disclaimer prevent you from making the fair investment decision of buying VOO? He'll no.
Flipping luxury goods isn't investing. You can do whatever you want, but resellers are not the intended customers for a given luxury good. They're trespassers, and a trespasser shouldn't be surprised if they one day get bitten on the ass.
Haha
Haven't heard Journe's name in a couple of months. Has someone with the brand took him out of the public eye? Or have collectors just tried really hard to sweep this under the rug till they can unload watches? Was sounding like he was going to get canceled & the allegations were going to be made public, but as far as I can tell not much has been said?
First thing insurance companies do, is at all cost trying to have to pay up, no matter what
I’ve never understood watch collecting. I simply buy a watch if I like it, no matter if it’s a Speedmaster or a Casio. Wearing watches is the only thing that I enjoy
Why do you assume that watch collectors do not only buy watches that they like?
Or buy the brands that you mentioned?
Glad you only enjoy wearing watches, but throwing shade on guys with more money and/or watches than you, that may not wear all of them, is sad IMO.
You be you Bruh.
Is it ok with you if people collect plates and do not eat off them all?
@wristopia4101 as opposed to the significant percentage who buy luxury goods on credit.
Personally, I think dropping the price of an overseas trip on a piece of jewellery is pathological; but, you do you.
To be fair, if I can resell a watch with no loss it's already a sweet deal, I got to rent the watch for free and wear it for some time. That's what I actually do with guitars.
I’ve never lost money on a Rolex.
Right now you can get SeaDweller 43s, TT GMTs Ceramics, and quasi vintage subs/GMTs are all solid buys and typically 13-15k. If you are chasing the “discontinued” game or the latest douchey release-you might be in a world of pain. But, I thank you for your investment advice nonetheless
If I got the call for the Daytona, I would end up keeping it. $10,000 extra will not change my life. Good point about selling your watch. The Dealer will give you garbage. If you sell to the individual, there is a good chance of being robbed.
No Corporations have your best interests! It's all about maximum profit for them!
Wearing a watch over years is to me worth more than money I paid for the watch. I am lucky that Rolex and Patek are the two brands that I like more than others When one decides to sell it, believe me that Rolex and Patek will retain most of its value. None of the “experts” take into account the value you get from wearing the damn watch. It is intrinsic so, for me, even more valuable than any monetary. My rule is buy what you wear and dont spend time with instagram flexing crowd and flippers
Yes!
Lol, that cash argument is ridiculous. You know what else works as cash anywhere in the world? US dollars, or use your Visa, lol
Buy what you love, wear it, enjoy it!
"investing" in watches is iffy with any brand.
This video is more about flipping and trading than investing. Investing means holding an asset for a longer period of time. I recommend comparing the price evolution of rolex watches with SaP 500 since 2000.
Well said!!
Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. We all know that.
S & P all day long over 20 years ....😊
Watches aren’t investments. People were conned into the belief that they are investments because of the covid/tulip mania. 99.99% of watches go down. Dont compare vintage Rolex with modern rolex think theyll go up the same. Paul newman daytona was a flop when released for example. Millions of modern Rolex’s out there and millions more are coming.
Watches are slowly going to return to a sleepier hobby how it used to be. The brands are doing everything in their power to ration supply on key models to hold their value and even then most models have slipped. During another cycle of wealth creation they may have another hay day, but time will tell
Very few watches make a good investment ~ at least those watches that us mere mortals can afford. Personally, I won’t wear a Rolex coz they’re way too common (yes, I do have one that I bought years ago, but I never ever wear it). I like wearing watches that any watch geek in the room would look at and want to see it and ask about it because they’re not common. As one of my ADs said to me (and he sells Rolex), when he goes into the gym, 50% of the guys there are wearing a Rolex. So, he doesn’t wear one either! I’ve yet to bump into someone who is wearing the same brand, let alone watch, as me (well, once, but that’s it)
You can make money on anything, the art is knowing your numbers, product and timing. I picked up a 50 euro Japanese Seiko and have been offered 5 x that multiple times. No, not a Rolex or big money, but seen this even at the lower end Seiko limited, Casio. Popular micro bands too. My last gen no wave seamaster pro, seen sold at 1000 more than I paid. Also the Rolex Submariner has trended over list for over 50 years….so are watches good investments? Often more no than yes, however if you pick wisely at any price point, you can find deals / profit.
Translation, things are finally getting back to normal. Rolex normally holds value better than most, meaning, with servicing costs and other related costs like insurance or precautions, Rolex holds value better. Yet it's still a cost.
Buying a watch used to be a trip to the watch boutique or Jewelry store and picking out the watch you could afford and what you liked .
I bought my first GMT Master 16710 that way in the 90’s and I still have it to this day .
Now due to all the hype and the flippers it’s made buying a watch for your father or your son a real pain .
I bought my father a Tudor BB58 blue dial and bezel for 4k because I waited for months for the Rolex AD to try to get me a simple No Date Submariner for my father . After 7 months I just bought the Tudor for my father .
He loves it and wears it everyday .
I will be giving my watches to my Daughter . Hopefully my grandchildren will have them when they are old enough .
Don’t fall for the hype and buy other things just to get a Rolex , get a rolex because it represents a milestone in your life or a gift for a loved one .
In the end you want the watch for what it is made for and that is telling time, not waiting to be sold in the future .
Well said
I agree, buy what u want to wear, but it’s not safe now cuz people are getting robbed. Watches are not investments, it’s a hobby.
what u saying
Maybe I’m one of the simpletons. I just want to own the horology inside the watch. A Rolex is excellent. I want to buy one but to keep it. Hand it down.
Investing in watches, is it really worth the time you put into it
WELL done JP!
Thank you. To me, watches are depreciable luxurious goods, where there is only a handful of brands and certain specific models that are above retail.
Now let's assume the meaning of investment: value creation (i.e. we should look for gains).
On the basis of 80% (ish) of watches are down ~30% (or more) the moment you walk out the door of a boutique, I do agree it is not an investment. I cannot even classify it as value retention for losing so much.
Also, what you need to WAIT in a boutique? does not mean you will be gaining. That happens with a lot of non-independent brands.
On the other hand, if you pick up a great condition piece in a secondary market, you shall be able to achieve value retention on the watch.
So rule #1 really understand and compare different brands, their models, history, specialty, and then #2 buy what you love.
Yes great points. Value retention is a good thing to consider imo.
You are so right John P. Watches are not assets. Very few high end, unique pieces could be but the most are subject of depreciation. Thank you for the advice!
Thanks for watching!
No one ever went broke buying a Rolex Sub/GMT variant buying Rolex. It’s not exactly an annuity, but then again your cash really isn’t in the bank anyway
I still own an Explorer 1655, i bought new, back in March 1978, at the Cardiff branch of Watches of Switzerland, for the handsome price of £525.
Just try and purchase a full set version for less than £19k, you can't.
I see the watch as a valuable asset, that i know i can sell for a lot of money if i have to.
I don't need to sell the watch, and as it was my first ever watch purchase, i have no plans to ever sell it.
Being worth all that money, is just a bonus, but it proved to be a very good investment, so please do not say Rolex watches are not good assets, because they most certainly are.
People also need to factor in service costs, risk of damage whilst wearing.
The moment the wheels come off the economy, luxury goods will lose their value.
Watches aren't quite the secure store of value people like to pretend.
Totally agree. No matter cheap watches (which admittedly makes most of my collection) to luxury watches, I no longer care much about resale value. I’d never buy a Rolex again in the grey market cause I lost money every time when I let those pieces go. Put my name down for the 2023 Kermit at the local AD and if I don’t get the call, no harm done. I’d simply buy what I enjoy from another watchmaker.
My first Rolex a GMT in 1967. I’ve owned Between 15 - 20 Rolex’s. My favourite is my 2022
Pepsi. The so called collector and secondary market are one reason ROLEX have been so hard to find. These collectors don’t care about the watch itself all they’re looking for is return on their money. Not to mention making it impossible to buy a new ROLEX today from your AD
for the person who genuinely wants to own a Rolex .
Rolex Sports models, do make good LONG term investments, as they rarely lose any of their value, and will increase in value over the years.
The only issue, is that most people are not prepared to wait many years, to see a return on their money.
They want an instant profit on their watch, and if that can't be achieved, they get bored, and often sell the watch for a small loss.
If you can sit on your non date Submariner or Daytona, for the long term, it will show you a good return on your money.
Rolex will always be a coveted watch brand, and who knows what the market will do in the long term, but you won't lose money on them, that's a guarantee.
Watches like Rolex at least have residual value. I have a lot of budget watches and all of them have practically no residual value. Yes, I agree, a Rolex is not an investment. If you decide to sell your Rolex you should get back a substantial amount of what you paid for it. I wouldn't expect to make a profit. Rolex retains some value. That is a big positive for the brand.
The best investment watch is the one that makes you feel good, look confident, attracts the right kind of attention, and gives you an aura of success. This, in turn, can lead to a better-paying job and an even more successful career 😎
Which figurehead and from which company. I'm curious.
Is a Rolex watch an investment generating a consistent and regular return, no. A keeper of value allowing you to wear the watch and recover at least 65% of the money spent if you need to sell, yes. Depending on the model and condition.
Watches aren’t good investments! LOL. Okay man, whatever you say.
FYI you can convert US cash into other kinds of cash anywhere in the world. Credit and debit cards can convert and extract cash from ATM’s anywhere in the world. Your Rolex can be stolen or scammed from you anywhere in the world .
I agree
@@JohnPWatches Best of luck in your new endeavours, John. I think the idea of selling your Rolex in a sketchy 3rd world country in an emergency is probably a story from 40 years ago.
Great content! Very informative for a novice like myself. Thank you!
Thank you!
People who buy rolex just for invest just parazite the market,if you bug a watch its just for wear it,use it and apreciate it,if you can sell it a good price when you want to change,great,but dont have to be the first reason...
Watches are not an investment....an indulgence
5 reasons and he just blabed forever saying nothing
I didn’t realize that this channel still existed until I got this notification. 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks for coming over.
Ginault brand ROCKS!
A very interesting and sobering talk. I especially liked the part about international matters that nobody takes into account when it comes to the watch market.
Thank you! Yes, people just like to look at Chrono and eBay and think that is the whole watch market.
Sorry, but you don’t know what you’re talking about. Rolex watches are an asset even from past history when you bought the toner for $207 and now it’s like 25 30,000 what do you call that give me a break
Investment involves studying market knowledge, owning an asset has nothing to do with investment. Owning an asset hoping the value will go up over time is just gambling.
Absolute garbage! Your philosophy is equally applicable to just about anything. I think you are confusing "Flipping" with investment, the two are distinctly different. Flipping is the pursuit of quick money, whereas an asset is acquired to generate an unspecified, future financial return. In other words, something that can be sold later at a higher price than you paid for it.
I'm a collector and have zero problem talking about it 🙄
Rolex bought at retail are pretty much guaranteed to never lose money over the long term.
Omega is like buying an EV at list 😂
Life is short. Buy a Rolex buy the private plane. You won’t get a second chance.
There are certain markets that a watch “dealer” will not touch. Those who touches either earn the gains or face the loss. I believe most watch dealers chooses to deal with a market familiar with themselves.
Did you and Fed have an amicable breakup?
Yes they do. And they are still collaborating on some mysterious business...
Agree. Nice that one could buy a Rolex and if they don’t have an heir to pass it on to, that they know that they could get their money back if they got bored with it. The biggest issue isn’t investing but short term profiteering. And Rolex could easily stop it but obviously aren’t going to.
do not “INVEST” in any watch period
Yeah, there was some odd energy in the last joint videos they did over the past year - they just didn’t seem “connected”. Maybe was always that way and I was late to notice 🤷🏽
Great video and explanation of the watch world.
What a great video, a good refresher of the basics. 👍
Very Good Intentions but it`s all a mess!
So who is a dealer and who is not?
Love the content. Thanks
Great talk
The only reason you would do a 'DO NOT Invest in Rolex Watches' video at this point in time is to make TH-cam cash off of the back of Rolex.
How do you know if another bubble is not on its way in the future?
Did you predict the last one?
I enjoyed the 19k I made flipping two of my Rolex watches actually paid for the other two I own .Not sure what this guy is talking about!!!!!
Yes that’s even what it’s ceo just said. So how is this news?
Where did I call this news?
@@JohnPWatchesagree you did not say that per se.
Nothing new here!
I disagree, owning a Rolex long term means you will get a solid return on your investment. Some models more than others retain there value and even appreciate.
Buying Rolex at retail is more often than not a much better investment than competitors.
Thats bull. Especially if you are paying ‘market prices’
Good luck though!
That Bull, really?
Member of Rolex haters club are you?
Fact Rolex retains value better than any other brand period.
Bought my 3 at AD and all are above retail at present time. You want to complain about availability, you have a point.
But go ahead and by a grand Seico, Omega or similar watch and you'll lose money the second you hut the door.
By the way don't need luck, I know what I'm talking about as well as what I'm doing.
Cheers to you though.