ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
First NATO Air Losses - Ukraine War
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- A mysterious tragedy in the Romanian-Ukrainian border region in March 2022 involving the loss of two NATO aircraft.
Dr. Mark Felton is a well-known British historian, the author of 22 non-fiction books, including bestsellers 'Zero Night' and 'Castle of the Eagles', both currently being developed into movies in Hollywood. In addition to writing, Mark also appears regularly in television documentaries around the world, including on The History Channel, Netflix, National Geographic, Quest, American Heroes Channel and RMC Decouverte. His books have formed the background to several TV and radio documentaries. More information about Mark can be found at: en.wikipedia.o...
Visit my audio book channel 'War Stories with Mark Felton': • One Thousand Miles to ...
Help support my channel:
www.paypal.me/...
/ markfeltonproductions
Disclaimer: All opinions and comments expressed in the 'Comments' section do not reflect the opinions of Mark Felton Productions. All opinions and comments should contribute to the dialogue. Mark Felton Productions does not condone written attacks, insults, racism, sexism, extremism, violence or otherwise questionable comments or material in the 'Comments' section, and reserves the right to delete any comment violating this rule or to block any poster from the channel.
Credits: US National Archives; US Department of Defense; Odo Puiu Events; World Army Club; Dashcam-dramaTube; Rakoon; Dave_S; EllsworthSK; The Mighty Spotter; Google Maps
When Mark is covering current events instead of historical conflicts, you know you live in crazy times.
Vapid commentary
@@justadildeau TH-cam. Your comment is redundant.
this will be tomorrow's history - and the sooner the better.
@@sgtbilkothe3rd likewise sugar
It has always been crazy...always will be....
I remember using one of your videos as a source for a high school research paper, as I love to watch these for fun. Keep up the good work, Dr Felton.
I would not try using them for citations, but those videos usually give a good overview before starting research on a topic. So yeah...good work
@@sebastianwendl603 if you use the video I think you can just put in the video and then all of the citations for the video that are in the description, some profs would take it but I'm sure most every hs teacher would
@@sebastianwendl603 He's in highschool, not writing an academic paper.
@@HoxtonKG
With a name like Captain PopTarts, he might be in elementary school
@@sebastianwendl603 even in academic settings, its acceptable to cite YT videos. You just have to satisfy the reader that you've done additional research and verified the quality of the channel. It might raise eyebrows but it can be done
Source: I've used YT videos as accessory sources for 14th year assignments and received high marks
I love that you are reporting it factually as it is happening, the utmost respect to you Dr. Felton, I feel as though you're one of the few golden age styled journalists / historians to date!
How much better was the world when his like was the MSM?
Condolences to the families and comrades in arms of the lost air crews. RIP
Thank you, Dr. Felton, for sharing this news with us.
Repent to Jesus Christ
“So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.”
Isaiah 41:10 NIV
h
The idea that even an inexperienced missile crew could confuse a helicopter with a top speed of less tan 200MPH for an attacking jet or cruise missile seems less than credible. Fantastic video as always.
the crashes took place at a great distance inside the Romanian territory, it is very certain that the S300 has no range to attack there and anyway the aircraft were tracked by the Romanian radar and could have seen possible Ukrainian missiles
the truth is that it was very bad weather then and this is probably the main cause
@@MrQ454 S300 has a range to attack..
@@idontcare2851 It's a 75 year old jet that crashed well within Romanian borders. Look at a map, there's no way they would have missile defenses setup at a Nato border scanning their air space. What would be the point of that?
@@idontcare2851 During harsh weather. Mig-21's are old aircraft, and Romanian LanceR's have crashed before. Combine that with the helicopter being recalled due to poor weather, it's not hard to believe. Anyway, Russia has the larger issue with mistaken identity, after all, they confused a Boeing airliner as a turboprop military transport and shot it down over Ukraine in 2014.
It was the S-300 system which destroyed a Russian recon aircraft over Syria . The cover story was , it was inexperienced Syrian soldiers who made the mistake and not Russian crews. A moot point at the time .
Having spent over 20 years as a pre-flight and in-flight weather specialist in the federal aviation administration in the United States, I can state professionally that one of the most lethal hazards to all pipes of aircraft is icing. I worked primarily with general and corporate aviation, and at one facility also had a medevac guard unit with UH-1's. I spent about half my career in areas of higher terrain.
When you have mixtures of rain and snow, and inversions where you have warm air above cold air, you can have super cooled droplets of water that as soon as they strike any hard service instantly freeze in a smooth very difficult to remove layer. If the rate of accumulation is high enough, severe clear icing as it is professionally called, is a threat to even aircraft with state of the art deicing equipment. Even the big boys (air carriers) are prohibited from flying into those conditions if they are known to exist.
Icing is a killer.
Helicopters get a trifecta. If the ice sticks to the edge of the rotor blade (which is where it typically impacts) It produces turbulent airflow because it changes the profile. So you get less lift. You also get less power, as the rotor blade becomes less efficient. At the same time the aircraft is rapidly gaining weight, as you are coated in ice. In fact the auto rotating feature of a helicopter rotor isn't going to work very well if it's iced, because it's no longer as aerodynamic and is not providing lift. To put this more simply, aircraft go crunch.
For the fighter aircraft, if you have a laminar flow wing, your typical high speed low drag thin profile, again it is hypersensitive to ice. Even the best hot wings (exhaust channeled into the leading edge of the wings to make it too warm to ice) can be overwhelmed by rapid clear icing. Losing both aircraft in the same area close to each other can be consistent with extremely hazardous icing conditions. While I would think that could also be true of enemy fire, either a SAM system or a couple of hostile aircraft, those are going to leave a very different signature than your typical weather related accident.
There of course is the all risk created by fog and low line clouds, that one of our medevac chopper pilots unaffectionately called cumulo-granite. We'd just buried a civilian medevac crew due to that. While I can thankfully say so far as I know I was never involved in contributing to a weather-related fatality, I have had to sign both recorded phone line and radio transcripts of communications with pilots who chose to ignore warnings and discovered mother nature is not to be trifled with. People forget that because they are flying in or near a war zone, military pilots often do not have the luxury of staying on the ground like civilian pilots. They are just as dead whether a missile or airframe icing claw their airplane from the sky. May their families find peace.
Fantastic insight, Mr Carroll. Thank you
Hmmm probably the reason why the Russian planes went down too huh...
Thank you for that insight. As we know, non-Mediterranean Europe isn't exactly known for sunshine and crisp blue skies for most of the year.
@@whakatu4life285 Don't know, but in the US if an aircraft reports severe icing that is automatically an emergency. Ironically impacting terrain in extremely limited visibility situations kills more pilots in the US than any other single cause.
I helped give weather safety seminars at some of our local pilot meetings. One of the things that was drummed into us for our dealing with aircraft encountering hazardous in-flight conditions, was that if conditions are getting worse try to get them to TURN AROUND in most cases. They've actually tested it, and talked about it to pilots who survived weather related crashes, and there is the human mindset that if I'm just 50 miles from the airport (10-20 minutes roughly) well I'm almost there and I'll just go take a look. If the weather is getting worse, and in another 50 miles it's going to get worse enough to kill you.
I cannot remember how many times they covered that in our refresher training. I had a funny experience with the military medevac chief pilot, who had been deployed in first Iraq and had probably been flying choppers longer than I had been alive.
He would always tell me we can set down in a field. I had been watching the weather one day, and he was flying down to my previous station going into the mountains of West Virginia. I read him the weather, you had low IFR that had already worked its way up to Central West Virginia. I showed him what it was doing, and he said I'll go down and take a look.
I told him that weather of indefinite ceiling zero visibility one quarter of a mile in heavy snow wasn't safe for anything. The next morning I was at work with about a foot of snow outside ( was also a weather observer so snow depth was a very important factor when I had to go outside every hour), and he comes up to the counter for a weather briefing. As I started to fill out the flight plan info, I double checked that he was departing from our airport, and he looked at me and said no I have to drive down to Southern West Virginia and pick up the helicopter from the middle of a field. I'm bringing it back. We had to set down when we ran into that weather. I just looked at him, smiled, and continued the briefing.
From then on when I told him the weather was going to be too low for helicopters, he actually listened. I also had a whole batch of his junior guard pilots that he would send over to get briefings from me. The only ones we lost were in Iraq because the old UH1's evidently had problems with blowing sand, or maybe it is just older engines with a lot of wear and then sand on top of it. They had to fly in blowing sand conditions to medevac severely injured soldiers. People forget that besides people shooting at you and things going boom, there are all kinds of nasty accidents that can occur in a war zone. Especially when you're really tired and short on time and that short cut leads to a mangled arm or leg. The Guard (older equipment) medevac units actually had one of the highest casualty rates in 1st Iraq.
From your insight which is very technical and practical, don't you think Russia adversary of specialising in ground weapons is cost effective and accurate for that matter, ground I mean artillery from sea, land and anti aircraft, in modern war against serious militaries airforce seems costly and risky to invest, sometimes I think its reason Biden refused NATO to wage war on Russia, American might is airforce, but Russia seems to fix the situation from ground, well have no idea but to say your story was educative.
If Mark had a whole team producing this much content, it would still be impressive. If there was a Mark Felton University, I would want to study there.
I love Dr Felton's comment sections. Always good insight from people from all walks of life and everyone is super respectful and interesting. Good content brings good conversation
As a romanian I can assure you, there is nothing mysterious about these crashes. Its because we still use equipement from the Korean War in 2022. They have been constantly crashing in the last 30 years, even in the 90s. Its a national embarassment.
The only mystery is why we still use such antiquated equipement.
If its that or nothing- they're still pretty capable to be honest, and can still fire more modern missiles.
@@mandowarrior123 Its not between that or nothing. We were so corrupt before we entered the EU and still are but not as much, that individual bribes in the 90s could've equivalated had they been used to something productive to a whole new fleet of aircraft, either mig 29s at least or f-16s. We got a bunch of second hand f16, and will get in the years to come f35s but its only now that we do something about it.
We also have horrible tanks really, we operate some romanian made variant of the t55 chassis instead of getting at least some Leopards or M1A3s like the poles are doing-and there is nothing concrete that we will in the near future.
Most of what the army's main purpose here is paying salaries and pensions, defending the country probably comes a distant 3rd or 4th place.
@@RandoBurner Thanks for posting, love this channel because of people like you !
"The only mystery is why we still use such antiquated equipement."
Probably because you still have some that hasn't crashed yet.
Well I suppose the problem is not owningthe aircraft itself, but rather owning a logistic chain to maintain it. That involve the staff capable of fixing it, in some cases even having enough long runways needed for other type of planes, owning enough parts etc... The price of the aircraft is one thing, the price of keeping it up there is another thing...
This is what the History Channel should be putting out.
* news
Too bad they turned into the Trash Channel.
@LeoTheBritish-Eurasian really they're back being good?
@@Draconisrex1 Right? A poorly executed soap opera channel
@LeoTheBritish-Eurasian good to hear I will check it
When Mark is giving accounts of historical events and you realise they are not 60 or 70 years ago but just in the current year, it is really a mind numbing and mind blowing.
Seeing current wrecks in moving pictures and in color rams home the reality of the past wars and see past the black and white pictures.
Great, great work! I wish you were in charge of news agencies here in the US. You give accurate information, context, and statements from all sides without skewing it to a given political ideology. Absolutely fabulous work!
As a history teacher I love using Mark Felton in the classroom!
I wish I had mark Felton videos when I was school
he loves the smell of his own farts
Ban all 1619 related NYTimes fiction!
History teacher from Australia checking in. Mark's videos are a great resource for us HT's!!
Even just TH-cam but his and several other TH-cam people that focus on history and this is history unfolding in front of our eyes are something those of use that grew up before the internet only dreamed of.
A Romanian TH-camr I watch who worked indirectly with people like the helicopter crew said that Romanian military pilots are known for being pretty unsafe in their flying and take a lot of dangerous risks that other countries don’t and so he wasn’t surprised at all that these aircraft crashed
Vee? I know he mentioned sonething like that about the rescue helicopter.
Thanks let me know about Romania air force because i been misunderstood about news when country mistakenly shot or enemy shoot, trespassing another country
@@gheetza14 Vee rocks!
@@kampar82 except for killing 2 tabletop series I was enjoying in a row. (Sargons DnD by splitting up the party and quitting and Arch Warhammers nazi vampires by starting his own generic lame game)
A jet fighter and its rescue helicopter crash because of weather within half an hour?
People will believe anything …..
MiG-21 is dropping for seconds, if the engine goes off. I was servicing the container with spy cameras on the belly of the MiG-21R (reconnaissance) in the 70's. The airplanes were stationed at the airfield Tolbukhin (today Dobrich) in the North Eastern Bulgaria. For just 6 months we had 2 accidents with 2 airplanes lost. Thank God the pilots ejected and there were no injuries. This airplane was notorious with it's inability to glide in the air. It's delta form wings does not bring big air support. The pilots were only relying on the powerful engine. But the problem was that there were too many accidents with engines switching off. Once this happen it was very difficult to turn on the engine again in the air. I heard from a technician in our regimen that MiG-21 is constructed with very weak power block. It looks that the latest generations got this problem solved. But the earlier versions needed a battery station on a truck to start it's engines before lift off. Over all there were too many fatal incidents in the Bulgarian Air Force during the communist dictatorship were very often. The accident happen not only with MiG-21, but also with MiG-19 and MiG-17. The record of the Soviet made airplanes was very bad. I was doing pictures of the graduating pilots, who learned to fly at the Air Force Academy near Dolna Mitropolia, Pleven district. After years of service the guys were coming back for commemorating gatherings at the Academy and it was a sad picture to see that many graduates lost their life.
Yeah, Russian aircrafts are junk. Sorry that Bulgarians had to live under essentially Russian rule for so many decades.
Thank you for telling the Truth about these flying coffins. The early delta wing aircraft in the U.S. Air Force were called "widow-makers" for this very reason. This was clearly a weather-related accident, not so-called "friendly fire" by the Ukrainians.
@@Travasaurusrex
The investigation is still not complete, yet you make assumptions? For all we know it may been pilot error.
To make assumptions without knowing the truth, is what a clown does, a gentleman, awaits for all facts to gather together before making any form of assumption, a plane was lost, thats the truth, why it was lost, we do not know yet and may never know.
As someone interested in fighter aircraft generally, I had no idea of these shortcomings of the mig21. I had always just heard how tough and gritty it was and could be stored outside etc as opposed to our seemingly "delicate" planes in the West (Canada) this is interesting stuff! Thanks!
@@SMGJohn We romanians are used to migs falling down , pilot error or bird ingestion , tech malfunction whatever , these are unforgivable airframes . No need for a S300 to fire randomly opposite to the front line .
This is very interesting Mark, something we have barely heard in the news
Nato is a gang that will end Europe in a Nuclear war.
These used to be a common occurrence in the 90s, so much so that Romanian mig 21s were called "plows". Nowadays these mig 21s have been modernised like two decades ago and I guess are better maintained but still these airplanes are old. I think this was mostly an unfortunate accident also made more likely by the bad weather.
That's what they want you to think
Our mig's are old now bro, they've been crashing for a while now, and will continue to do so
In India it's called the "flying coffin".
Mig 21s airframe have poor handling and visibility. They crash all the damn time. Just ask the Indians... Those things are a death trap.
@@zsoltkovacs827 Who is they?
Both were accidents according to the Romanian Ministry of Deffence. You can find info on their website but in Romanian. The aircraft had probably engine faliure after take off, the rescue helicopter had problem with ice that blocked the airflow in the engine. The weather was bad for flying.
Thanks for posting, love this channel because of people like you !
What else could they say.
@@leonidjoseph5483 if you check the airport and the crash site just in this video then it is obvious to me that the accident should have happened after take off… this video is a bit of conspiracy and Russians also use desinformation like the brits and americans in this (and other) war conflict very much. This video is based on Russian claims that Ukrainians did a mistake. I think the Ukrainians know 1. where are the airports in Romania, 2. which direction the Russians are operating, 3. Russians would never use airspace of a Nato country for attacking UA in order to avoid direct conflict with Nato air deffence (German and other Nato fighters have been deployed to Romania). & do not underestimate the weather and mother nature. But you can believe what you like (wmd in Iraq for example ;))
@Grim FPV Its quite obvious. The ukrainians were hitting everything that moved in the first weeks
@Grim FPV it is a domestic embarrassment, what else can it be? you can't hide an attack like that no matter how hard you try, not in this region and not in these days...corruption kills, these aircrafts should have been scrapped more than two decades ago
Excellent reporting by Mark, as usual. Pity we can't get this kind of in-depth coverage from cable news networks, most of which usually dabble in political discourse - not news.
Dabble? DABBLE? They dabble in NEWS.
I appreciate the way you’re telling the current news in the same way you do your historical videos
Old or not... those Lancers are gorgeous. When they are retired I hope they find their way into museums or private collections.
Given their upgrades with Elta radars and avionics, I'd bet they're used as aggressors.
They are very noisy as well.
They are awesome planes ✈️ they entered soviet service in 1959 and there still in service
I know they're old and outdated planes but that Romanian livery on those MIG-21's is fantastic.
I love MIG-21's they're such ugly but equally beautiful bits of kit.
@@fingmoron they are not really ugly, it looks beautiful from outside like an arrow.
Not rllt outdated anymore the lancer r is fitted with a modern day nato radar, gun, and electronics
@@paulbadelita3898 doesn't change the fact that the aircraft itself is very old
Your Romanian pronunciation is great, showing a great interest in small details like these. Congrats yet again, Mark!
I am using the videos in my classroom as much as I can! I am a huge fan of Dr. Felton and his tell it as it is and the truth is the best way to show and tell the historical reference to a event.
Even if I find a video from Mark that isn't really my thing i still come in and watch it and hit the like because he really does his research and is 100000% more credible then any other news/yt videos... Mark you do a great job keep up the good work! 😁
You are a goldmine when it comes to preserving events in history many of us will never be taught about, as well as documenting history as it happens.
Honestly it’s really cool seeing older MIGs still in service.
Not for the people flying them when they crash.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 well, yeah, but mig21s are still cool
@@dylanholven6375 yes, I'll give you that. They answer the question: If you took one of the engines from a blackbird, stick wings on the side and a seat on top, what does it look like?
The A10 is a gun with wings. The Mig 21 is an engine with wings. The problem with having a single engine is if it stops you can have a big problem. A twin engine plane can get home with one engine and be repaired.
I worked at a Libyan airbase , it was full of mil 8 amphibious and land and mig 21s. The ground crews would come along and blitz a mil 8 or a mig 21 and then get it flying in about a week. When they released the rotor brake on the mil 8 we would all get away from the windows, also it was a heli with opening windows, quite unusual.
Seeing a Mark video about a timeline I lived through, wild.
That wing rock is iconic IMO, a real sign of thanks and respect.
These update videos really do take the 'drama' out of what we hear and see on Radio and Television 'news' stories.
Thanks for this.
Just like to add that Romania's second-hand F16's came not just from Norway, but also from Portugal.
Thank you for an excellent video and for such professional coverage. It's such a change to hear you describing current events. Thank you for such hard work and thorough research. Respect.
Dr. Mark Felton is an unsung modern day hero! 🧑🎓🧑🏫
I am truley loving this channel ...its so important to cover current events!
So much has been happening in this conflict that I had not even heard of these aircraft crashing! Very informative video once again!
Which is ironic because it was all over Russian media speculating why it crashed, and I also clearly remembering reading about it in western media which said the Russians shot it down, this is why its best to take everything with a grain of salt, neither side speaks a damn spek of truth.
Thank you for creating a video with this subject, Mark Felton.
Things not well known outside Romania:
1. The weather was bad, but not unusually bad. When people from Romania questioned the weather, the official explanation drifted toward "technical problems".
2. In regard to the incident when Romanian Air Force lost one fighter jet and one military helicopter in less than one hour: The pilot of the jet fighter had more than 500 hours of flight. The pilot of the military helicopter had more than 1500 hours of flight. They were not beginners! Blaming human errors is possible, but for two separate cases, with the experience of these pilots, does not stand.
- - -
The Snake Island, only 32 km / 20 miles from Romanian shore (and a former belonging of Romania), was occupied by the Russians from the beginning of the conflict and they took it from Ukraine. I would not be surprised for the Russians to try something experimental, like electronic jamming or you name it.
- - -
Even though the loss of the helicopter and fighter jet were "accidents" + "because weather" + "technical problems", in that evening, or in the next day, Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, came in person to Bucharest in an unexpected visit, to talk with the Romanian government! In the day of the "accident", or the following day, France pledged to send their only aircraft carrier to the Black Sea, near the Romanian shore. Quite unusual events for "accidents" + "because weather" + "technical problems".
- - -
Conclusion: IF the Romanian fighter jet and the helicopter went down because of the Russians, NATO did not want to publicly acknowledge that, because it would have forced them into action.
interesting conjecture
Good Analysis.
And the last thing that NATO wants is to confront Putin! What the f..k is the point of NATO if it is not prepared to confront the Madman and defend its borders.
Puking wants to destroy NATO to give him the freedom to invade other countries - Poland next, Romania, and onward to BERLIN.
Come on NATO step up and do your job! FFS.
Another conspiracy theory fan, drawing conclusions out of nothing and/or lies. No foreign aircraft carrier can enter the Black Sea (Montreux convention); France pledged nothing related to such. Von der Leyen went all over Eastern Europe those days.
If you take anything the russian government has to say at face value you need to have your head examined. Being a world class liar seems to be a prerequisite to getting the position.
Another generation of war covered by our dashing history teacher. Thank you sir!
Yes, war is highly entertaining
@KN Nk Hmmm, Given the choice between the respectable Dr. Felton and what he has presented compared to the "Caps Lock" statement made by an account created 3 days ago with nothing to substantiate said statement. lol
@KN Nk Ok, do this in parts for simplicity. #1 No, I'm simply observant and suffer from blunt honesty. #2 Was unaware of vision problem, apologies. #3 If you have to create new accounts because they are being banned or blocked.... well, that's usually for a reason. #4 The "Dr." is the narrator of the video and info is in the description section above comments. #5 I did pay attention to the materials, it's why I watched the video in the first place and the color of the comment in caps was quite disingenuous. Lastly #6 Not sure what you mean by ID? I Got ID was a "95 Pearl Jam song.... little clarification on that one.🙈🙉🙊
Croatian MiG-21 also had number of accidents with some losses during the year. Each of existing airframes is decades old and they are not low-stress transports but fast and agile interceptors.
Hmmm strange
And the Puma?
I can only add that MiG-21 from Croatia were on maintanance repairs in Ukraine, not Russia.
This is fake news. Last incidents with Croatian Mig's was in 2014. No casualties.
However Serbia lost one of it's training Mig21 in Sept. Of 2020 with both pilots killed. Somebody from our area interested in flying should be well aware of that.
If the DCS simulator is anything like the real plane, a Mig 21 can be pretty unforgiving of mistakes. Apparently DCS is quite close to the real thing so it’s not like someone playing CoD. Milsim software based on DCS is used to train pilots in various airforces so I assume it must be relatively accurate.
Its great that calling it as it is.
Its not a Russo-Ukraine War.
Its NATO-Russia War.
The MIG-21 began in 1955. That they are still being used is remarkable.
As a Romanian, i'm ashamed of this accident. Yet, i'm glad my country made it into a Mark Felton video. Aside of WW2 stuff, of course.
Slava Romania 🇷🇴 🙌🏻
Nah don't be ashamed, these things happen. It is just an unfortunate coincidence that these accidents happened and took their crew with them. May they rest in peace.
Ehh, we've mistakenly flown a couple F-35s into the ocean in recent months. It happens in aviation. Nothing to be ashamed of. ;)
All countries lose aircraft on operations for various reasons, add bad weather and even more likely. RIP the personnel doing their duty.
@@SHOT_GUNNER we don`t use that over here, we`re latins!
RIP all those who died - God damn the politicians who are making all this sh*t happen!...
@Harupert Beagleton You have a point. BUT how would you suggest that 'citizens' stop this happening?
@@georgebuller1914 by making noise
@@azkrouzreimertz9784 'Noise?'
How do politicians make bad weather happen?
@@mattteee2973 LOL - give them time! My point is, if we didn't have nutters like Putin trying to rule the world, then we wouldn't be putting people's lives at risk by NEEDING(?) to fly aircraft in such poor weather - just to maintain a listening watch.
Aircraft Engineer Here, I studied the MIG 21 and all its systems at university, and maybe I can make a bit of light on the sudden and "unexpected" crash of the MIG 21. From all the pilots I asked and from my technician colleagues with more than 20 years of experience on the MIG 21 and the IAR 330. The cause of the problem was ice forming on the cone of the MIG 21.
The MIG 21 was not designed with an anti-icing system for the cone and at the time of the accident as mentioned in the video, the weather was cold, and moist with a very low cloud ceiling. The MIG can only fly in those conditions Supersonic as the air friction at supersonic speeds is enough to keep the cone ice-free. Those aircraft were flying sub sonic and in those conditions ice formed on the cone which made the cone unresponsive to the different flight regimes and the engine stopped as it did not have enough air to sustain combustion.
Regarding the IAR 330 puma, the story is similar as the rotor blades were not designed with anti-icing in mind as it was built in 1975. Ice formed on the leading edge of the rotor blades and caused a terrible crash.
The truth is that neither aircraft should have left the base that day with that flight plan and in those conditions. Hopefully, I made a bit of light on this accident.
I never said they the aircraft does not have an anti icing system I said that the intake cone does not have an anti icing system. The intake cone works like a Venturi tube to regulate the air pressure getting into the engine and it’s being controlled only by 2 static pressure sensors (IDO D1 & IDO D2 if I remember correctly). It’s simple ice just formed on the cone or the mechanism that moves the cone and it starved the engine of oxygen it happened with other MIGs as well. The phenomenon is not common as the air moving around the cone crates enough heat especially when supersonic. There are also the little flappers in the intake area witch also are supposed to regulate the pressure in case the airflow is to turbulent.
@@alexmasso96 it doesnt matter, ukrainians shot down both..
S-300 soviet anti-air system did its work, but wrong targets due unprofessional ukrainians
I was wondering all the time why didn't they take the F 16
A sad double tragedy for these two sets of aviators no matter what the causes of their crashes. Condolences to their Families! Thank you for making these tragedies known to everyone who might see this presentation - the truth of present day history must be known for us to know what is happening on our World.
The truth will not be reported accurately during war time in The West as long as the Western media is under government control - unless the truth happens to coincide with the MSM/government agenda.
Amazing video as always, quality content with great commentary Thank you for talking about this subject!
The MIG handles like a rocket with flaps from the looks of it. Beautiful in its own way
I always thought that of the F-104 Starfighter.
It handles ok, when you follow the couvert of scenario. No plane is perfect, and this one is studied for 50 years..so go in.
@@miroslavdockal9468 Oh yeah,
Should be used in that way too.
Well it needed to be able to fly like a rocket to be able to shoot them down
Informative as always Dr. Felton. At some point, I hope people stop referring to things said on "social media". That is like saying "word on the street", or "rumor has it". It's interesting that the inept and compromised main stream media, have resorted to reporting on what is said on Facebook and Twitter. Thank goodness people like yourself are providing accurate information. Stay well Sir.
The Romanian Mig-21 fleet were upgraded and modernized in the late '90s by Elbit Systems Ltd. An Israeli multinational defence contractor. Includes full avionics package, tarrain mapping, comm's, weapons management, radar tracking. This deal was in the 100's of millions in '90s dollars. Romanian Mig's are at least 3.5 gen, possibly 4th gen capable.
Perhaps the most advanced and well maintained Fishbeds.
Dr. Felton has quickly become a valuable source of information about not just WWII, but now WWIII as well.
Complete and comprehensive air crash investigation and the fog of war usually don’t mix. Thank you for taking the time to look into and cover this!
It is preposterous to think that the Uks would shoot down any friendly NATO aircraft of any variety, shape, form or fashion, let alone 2 of 'em back-to-back. Especially that of a neighbor and ally like Romania. It was clearly bad weather and possibly pilot error that caused these unfortunate accidents. Shame on Mark for trying to cast a shadow on the Ukrainians as they fight for their very existence...
Wow those are some antiques. Lovely to see them still flying. Tragic for the people involved for sure.
When I first saw the title, I thought NATO was gonna join the war due to the air loss and the world would get fucked up even harder than it already is.
The second nato enters it's going to be nuclear very quickly
Loved the Ukrainian fighter “waving” when he left the Romanian airport
Thanks 🙏 Mark Felton for your great videos great work
my father in law is a former helicopter pilot (who actually flew the helicopter that crashed) many years ago. his brother was a Mig 21 Lancer pilot, he catapulted about 20 yrs ago and survived. Both the helicopter and the plane were around 50 yrs old. The reason why they both crashed on the same evening was that the weather was really bad. Pundits and countries alike then tried to exploit the incident to their advantage. The truth is we need new aircraft desperately as what we have is extremely old which is we are buying Norwegian F-16s, that are also old unfortunately.
Can't go far wrong with f16s. A big upgrade from a mig 21
You'll be just fine with the F-16's. Israel, to name 1, is still using them quite effectively.
Curiously it appears that Romania already has the F 16. My question is why did they take the Mig and not the F 16.
Mig-21 Lancer, the flying coffin. It belongs in a museum, not in the active service. Shame on politicians for not allowing a renewal of the air fleet for all these years. The pilots pay this with their lives.
The first mig-21 flew in 1956, it was officially introduced to militaries in 1959.
The last one ever build left the factory in 1981.
Theoretically the plane could be 63 years old, with a minimum age of 41 years.
Antiques break down, that's a given.
And yet so many commenters are quick to believe Russia and blame Ukraine, even with literally zero evidence and everyone else, including the people who lost the aircraft, disputing it.
@@lukajolich7669 yup, all the emotions prevent common sense from taking place.
Kind off understandable but unfortunate none the less.
neah, im from romania. they were shot by ucrainians, but now ucrainians must be portrayed as hero's , so we cant say the truth.
The last B-52 was built in the early 1960s and they are still going strong.
@@sebastianconstantin5176 I'm from Russia it was us.
Just in-case you missed it... The Ukrainian aircraft departing Romania saluted with their aircraft after take off... Meaning all were happy and friendly ;)
Yeah I noticed that too.
Naturally, they both fought with the NAZI SS in WW2
@@chevinbarghest8453 Stop living in the past.
@@chevinbarghest8453 Cope
@@chevinbarghest8453 So did Russia...
Funny to have Russia claiming Ukraine have untrained troops.
Russian general asks:
- what are our losses
- 18k soldiers, 150+ planes, 130+ helicopters, 600 tanks, - soldier says
- what about NATO losses?
- they have not entered the war yet
@Mark Felton,
Unfortunately, the history of MiGs in Romania is riddled with accidents. Since 1994 and until this year, 19 such planes have crashed, the price paid being the life of 11 pilots.
Currently, the Romanian army still has 35 MiGs in the hangars, of which 18 are operational.
Same as message above you,
Thanks for posting, love this channel because of people like you !
yeah, right. what happened to the chopper then? and both within a 30-minute window. doesn't take a genius to conclude that they were both shot down by the 1-million or so javelins, nlaws, and stingers that have been flooding the Nazis there since 2013. yes you read that right, 2013.
Don't you have option to Eject from it ?
@@thekaizer666 Maybe its simply the Romanian Triangle, like the Bermuda Triangle where planes crash .
@@thekaizer666 before you talk about maybe you can look into it. Romania had a lot of those planes crash.The title is such a click bait.
26 Mig-21s have crashed in Romania in the last 28 years... Many of these pilots died trying to save the plane or take it to an unpopulated area.
Less than one a year average, that's not a bad record. Maybe you should quit yer bitchin'.
Probally got shot down by Ukrainian air defence and to not make Ukraine look like the bad guy, they simply said it was an accident.
The MiG-21 first entered service in 1959. They Romanians are lucky those things are still flying at all. But it is a testament to that air craft. There are still F-4 Phantoms flying too.
Thank you Dr. Felton!
Amazing how the Mig21 is still flying today… such an old piece of tech so outdated and outclassed by modern fighters and anti air yet still so beautiful in my opinion
Well, they do say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In my opinion, one of the ugliest jet fighters ever built.
They keep being updated for modern air warfare.
Yeah too old and some are now too tired for the their bones.
@@ianworley8169 So true, I on the other hand love the mig 21, the ugliest jet to me is the Hawker Hunter.
They are still good in intercepting tho infact better than modern fighters in terms of intercepting even tho the plane crashes a lot lmao
Bloody good video.
I love Dr.Feltons informative and well researched channel these are all top notch. Thankyou
Learn something new every video you make. Well done! Im a thankful subscriber now!
Brilliant video yet again, sir. As a Bangladeshi kid in his teenage, this is treasure for me. Guys around me smoke weed while I watch you. Thank you again for entertaining me and encouraging me about history. Love.
I love your work Mr. Felton. At this point it’s hard for me to believe any government statement.
“At this point”? Never believe governments!
@Grim FPV I think it’s because of how we “western populations” have become complacent and we’re just realizing how our governments have lied to us in situations just to benefit themselves, I’m not excusing Russia from any responsibility from invading Ukraine but the western world has done its fair share of crimes that no one brings to light until it’s so old nothing can be done about it to bring justice, sorry for going on a tangent :)
@Grim FPV Oh, yeah... just like what they said about the Lancers being shot down by Ukraine. Very honest... get a f*cking life.
Everyone in Romania knows it's airforce is old and prone to crashes. There were so many crashes of MiG 21 in the past 20 years in Romania, it's really not news anymore.
@Grim FPV you're delusional if you think Russian policy is to tell the truth
Awesome. Russia doesn't even need to fly because the Ukrainians and Romanians will knock each other out through incompetence.
Hardly anyone is talking about the incidents. They are talking about how Mark Felton is great at his work. Are you people serious??? Silly people
I can't imagine Mark Felton does so many quality investigative journalism and put it out for free. Big Fan 👍
Much honor to Romania 🇷🇴 for bravely policing the skies and returning the aircraft.
Are you kidding? If I were a pilot in the Romanian airforce I'd run for the hills before climbing into the cockpit of those rust coffins.
@@bigzed7908 nothing from those migs are what used to be when the airplane was crafter ... it was modernized by israel and 90% of the parts inside changed ... very good radar but still old planes indeed ... they only a few left ...
@@nicolaeadrian7882 I hope they get discarded to the History books as soon as possible.
@@bigzed7908 they do ... half are retired and othet half are just used for patrol ... the f-16``s they boght to replace the mig`s are delayed af ...
@@bigzed7908 I think most of those in the West would be alarmed at one of these “vintage” aircraft flying over our heads. They are nevertheless very robustly built (over built), and parts are available in an abundance. Still…
Dr. Felton, it looks like someone should have told you welcome to the "poor, 3rd world" homeland of the NATO Deputy General Secretary Mr M. Geoana. Thanks.
The first 17 Romanian F-16's WERE purchased from Portugal Air Force(the ones we have it in use right now), not from Norway.
The next 15-20 Romanian F-16's WILL be baught from Norway, starting from 2023.
The complete ineptitude and equipment deficit of my army put forward on international display.
I'm honoured :(
haha ouch!
Whenever you feel like your country is corrupt and your military is weak, look at Russia and instantly feel better
Accidents happen to all countries, military flying (especially fast jet) is not as safe as its commercial counterpart.
Im sorry. Rest in peace to these Romanian servicemembers. I dont think poorly of Romanians. Hopefully Romania will be getting Western replacements. F-16 and UH-60 platforms come with tons of support. Tons of parts. Easy to fly. Safe. Highly developed and refined platforms
Btw One of my favorite TH-camrs, Ludi Et Historia is a Romanian strategy gamer. Dunno if you've seen him but he talked about this topic once on stream. He didn't bash them but I didn't realize this was something notorious about the Romanian Air Force.
What a lot of people are unaware of, is that Israeli Aviation Industries have been updating Eastern European MiG 21s for the last decade, and the changes include glass cockpits, and modern avionics .
They light years ahead of the sixties versions of MiG 21.
Do you mean that the canopy wasn't glass before, or do you mean like glass all around the cockpit so they can see in more directions?
They are flawed by design issues. Fuel tank is placed under the body and sometimes fuel moving around creates destabilization during flight.
@@gimmethegepgun "Glass cockpit" means a cockpit that uses lots of video displays and modern electronics as opposed to an old school cockpit using all analog dial instruments. Look up a photo of a Boeing 747 cockpit from 1970s vs. a 747 from recent years to see the difference. It's common to upgrade old aircraft with glass cockpits if they remain in service long enough.
@@gimmethegepgun glass cockpit refers to modern avionics and instrumentation such that the old analogue diaals are on digital displays instead.
Israel also updated the
Puma 332 for Rumania.
Russia calling another country's troops
Poorly trained 💀
Korea 1950, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1961, Vietnam 1961, Congo 1964, Laos 1964, Brazil 1964, Dominican republic 1965, Greece 1967, Argentina 1976, Nicaragua 1981, Grenada 1984, Phillipines 1989, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991, 2003, Republic of Srpska 1995, Sudan 1998, Yugoslavia 1999, Afghanistan 2001, Yemen 2002, Somalia 2006, Libya 2011, Syria 2011.....
I must say, the ability to consistently deliver material without a clear bias is impressive.
Thank you Doctor Felton for giving us real time history.
When Mark Felton is commenting on Current Events, you KNOW that we are living in Historic Times!
Romania is a ballsy nation! I salute them.
Another excellent and educational video. Thanks, Mark!
Love the detail that goes into your videos and how you explain contexts, to give us a clear picture of what happened and possibly why. Great work 🙂
It's very unlikely that a ground based S300 radar placed hundreds of kilometers away in Ukraine can detect a helicopter flying in a search and rescue mission at very low altitude well inside of Romania, in a hilly region. The presumed target was well below the radar horizon.
Thank you, Mark Felton.
Thanks so much for this Dr. Felton. We haven't heard a peep about this in American media.
Mig 21s are notorious for their crashes. Those jets are relics and belong in museums
Notes*: Currently all Romanian F-16 were bought from Portugal. There is a procedure that aims to buy 32 more from Norway, but that has not materialized yet. The IAR-330 PUMA does not have a deicing capabilities for the main control surfaces (aka blades), it was flying low, at that hour it was already dark and the temperatures that evening were around 0 degrees Celsius. Since the incident, another MiG-21 had to make an emergency landing due to technical issues, and as of today, 15.04.2022 the Romanian Ministry of Defense deemed the MiG-21 too dangerous to continue to be operated, and all the planes will be stopped from performing air policing duties. The crews will continue to train on them in order to maintain a level of training in case of emergency, but they will be phased out once the transition to the F-16 fleet will be complete.
I see one off these perform at RIAT 2019...I feel lucky to have seen it do so considering its one off those Cold War classics that are now becoming very rare.
The fact those mig's 21 are still flying is a miracle indeed, in Poland we called them flying coffins...
I think it's mostly the fault of very exploited old design of the planes, that were even 15 yers ago regarded as very
malfunctioning planes.
It's a miracle that these "Balalaikas" are still flying, 63 years later, and a testament to their legendary durability. You can't smear that plane due to its performance well beyond its recommended shelf life!
those old coffins with wings won't fly for very long. they'll either get shot down with ease, or fall from the sky on their own with inexperienced romanian pilot.
@@driver4011 Idk about that it's not like they are getting parts from Russia no more is it? Mig 21's have been obsolete for a loooong time, Russia doesn't seem to have any inventory of the planes so getting replacement parts is about as likely as surviving in space with no space suite.
@@Dazzxp Mig 21 were getting parts from Ukraine..now with that bombed i thing its end for Mig 21..
@@Dazzxp india still flies them and they also call them flying coffins. I hear all the electronics have been modernized though and are far from obsolete. This plane is so common it must have spare parts everywhere and they are not complicated.
It’s so weird hearing him talk about events that are playing out at this very moment
For those of us who lived through the First Cold War hearing the words "NATO loses its first aircraft a MiG-21" sounds so strange to my ears.
Always top notch content. Top tier as always!
Thanks for all you do mark
I enjoy all of Mark Felton's documentaries. I sometimes wish they were longer because they are very informative and really interesting.
They finally grounded all Mig 21 flights shortly after this video came out. It was about damn time!
The US/NATO will just watch as Ukraine is ground into powder.
WE are no longer the peoples who fought WWII
and The Cold War against tyranny.
TOO used to our comforts, to our FANTASIES, to act!
J.C.
I'm loving all the new info on today's War. It's like...mostly the material I'm really interested in. Awesome Mark!