@@NyxVellumnestly thank you. You just helped crack a lot of the secret quest with this. I’ll let you know. You are the person who located the temple of rathma by putting this video out. I didn’t know it’s true name. But if what is in this video is true, rathma is the prime evil. And his attribute is fear.
They more or less stole the story of how hes immortal from Conan the Barbarian lore. Instead of imbuing a amulet with his life force, they imbued his finger lol. Even kinda look the same
@@NyxVellum yo nyx you should look into mariner’s refuge… the name is a riddle, a mariner’s refuge is the sea. I find it weird when you scroll over the map it says the sea itself is undiscovered. Meaning it can be discovered.
@@NoVACorpsGaming once you kill Elias in the campaign, talk to the priest in Zarbinzet and youll get a quest to find Symon. i forgot what it was called, but thats the quest that takes you to where the trailer takes place :)
Yep! If you do the side quests, you will stumble upon it. I always do the side quests as they appear, so I got it without realizing it. I actually guessed where it was going/what it was about pretty quickly; however I think I ran into it after Elias was dead. Very good side quest!
I also like the fact that it seems like originally Elias was going to spare Symon and use three mercenaries for the ritual, but one of them took off at last moment before entering the final dungeon.
Elias was such an intriguing character IMO. Clearly was skeptical of Lilith but thought of her as a necessary evil to save Sanctuary. Would fight her if he had to with his gained immortality. I mean, what better solution is there to the eternal conflict than to summon the being that created Sanctuary to escape the eternal conflict?
I think that initially he was willing to fight her with his immortality, but after he actually summoned her his mind was twisted by her presence. That was my interpretation of some of the cut scenes.
@@LokiTheAnsuz Totally not true. The story hinges on the fact that *both* created sanctuary to escape the Eternal Conflict and *both* later changed their motivations through millennia of torment.
@@austinhenry4092initially he never wanted to fight her, however he took every precautions in case Lilith turned out to be not what he expected of her. To his luck, Lilith exceeded his expectations, so both formed an alliance. Elias was still skeptical even after her summoning which he openly admitted. That makes him very pragmatic, and his reasoning behind all this does not indicate any shift in his behavior at any moment.
I feel like Lilith and Elias were trying to save humanity even if it wasn’t gone about in the best way. It feels like their goal was to end demons and angels and not have to face the eternal conflict anymore, and then they’d figure out what to do after that. I still kind of wish we could have sided with Lilith because honestly both sides suck in this conflict and both deserve to lose
Facts. Especially in the minds eye when she explains her motives and our character just roasts her. tbf tho it makes room for interesting expansions. The really weird thing i noticed is lilith is right but were supposed to kill her. Thanos was right but was killed by the avengers. Why are people that are right the enemy without question?
@@BigpoppawheelyBecause if you make decisions that bare a cost that loses yourself/humanity, the point of saving it becomes null. If you are willing to kill someone to save your lufe, your life has been lost, even if you succeed. Sanctuary would be turned into Lillith's domain, and the Humans would've been overcome by her Sin, and eventually they'd be Demons to thrawrt Angels and Demons. It's unfortunate Inarius's self-serving goals collapses the balance in Humans between Survival and Sacrifice.
I see that as 1 perspective believing their choices are righteous. You say if we make a decision that bares a cost that, but whats the cost for killing Lilith despite what she says to be true? Is sanctuary in even more danger by the prime evils since lilith was going to defend sanctuary? It was in danger of inarius destroying everything and lilith saved sanctuary from him trying to “redeem” himself. And now mephisto is corrupting neyrelle its a matter of time before the consequences are to be faced.
@@ArmageistMephisto said to The Wanderer: "I won't lie. There will be time when we are enemies ..." That says it all about his ultimate goal. Siding with Lilith would prevent that happening.
I have always thought that Elias has all the good intentions in mind. Summoning Lilith to save Sanctuary wasn't all a bad idea. He might have known as well that Lilith was not pure evil. Many people didn't know that Lilith having blue and grey eyes instead of flaming read was because she has good in her.
Funny that they picked the girl with one arm to be the next wanderer. I wonder if she’s gunna get a new arm. Maybe Mephisto will talk her into doing some dark magic or something
That’s the funny thing though, is don’t most of the prime evils want to be imprisoned inside of the soul stones? So that they can corrupt the world stone shard and use it for their own needs?
It's easy to argue Elias was not evil at heart. Flawed yes, but not a typical villain by any stretch. He took the "by any means necessary" approach to defending Sanctuary against the Prime Evils. You can certainly say he became corrupted and enthralled by Lilith but his end goal was the saving of Sanctuary...he was no cut and paste cookie cutter villain. And his dying speech was really well done by the voice actor, I found myself doubting the need to kill him. "Was it worth it?" That is a coward's question. It suit's you." GODDDDANGGGGGG BRUH
Wow this was an amazing video. Such deep coverage of the lore. Elias is such an interesting character I wish they would gone even deeper with him. I was surprise by his lines on deathbed to lorath on my playthrough. Almost like he drop the mic 🎤 lol
Pretty sure it was willingness to stand against both the prime evils and the heavens, since everyone has been standing against the primes since D1 but no one had any plans of resistance vs heaven hence why Malthael did so much damage (literally killed more humans in like a week than the primes did throughout centuries). Elias resorted to Lilith due to being raised in the era where everyone finally knows that the angels suck for the most part and don't have humanity's back. In the event that the heavens and hells both decide to just wipe out humanity out of convenience, humanity would be alone. Malthael's rampage was the thing that made humanity realize that heaven wasn't on its side, and that the angels that helped it were outliers rather than norms (Tyrael and...idk, Hadriel maybe?). That's also why and how Inarius was able to manipulate so much goodwill from humanity: he pretended to be one of those outlier generous angels despite hating humans almost as much as Malthael did.
I think Elias begrudgingly took the only road he could to save sanctuary. I think Lilith did the only thing she could to try to save sanctuary from overwhelming opposition on all sides. And we spat in their faces. We didn’t even question it.
I mean, I went through the whole second half of the game like, "Why are we fighting these guys?". Angels are shit, the Primes ARE coming back, and Lilith has a genuine interest in helping mankind and sanctuary. Especially after she spoke at length directly to you after you were caught scrying her the second time. She never coerced anyone to do anything, merely gave them the means to make their own choices which were on them if they turned out negatively. Its good to make the "antagonist" compelling, but they kind of goofed by making her the most rational character in this installment.
I wish they would have given us an option. I would have chosen to hook up with Lilith and breed new life into Santuary, she was sexy. Let's burn the Angel's out of the sky, says I.
If Lilith actually was going to do what she said, and destroy the primes to rule Hell and keep it out of Sanctuary, then yeah we fucked up. Heaven doesn't give a rats ass about humanity, Inarius is a doofus, and now Lilith is gone. The Primes are gonna have a field day with us.
If that's what she wanted, why even do any evil stuff beyond what's absolutely necessary? Most of what she wanted could've been achieved through cooperation and good faith. Lilith and Elias both had the ability to disguise themselves as normal humans so that isn't much of an excuse.
A lot of the "evil" she did though was fighting against a false religion based on lies that only existed to help inarius, who is absolutely insane now, get back into heavens no matter the cost, even though he was basically a demon at this point. I don't know if we have seen the last of inarius honestly. But who knows
The game does a somewhat ok job of making heaven morally grey (mostly in D3) as well as Lilith. Much to the dialogue in the game reveals Lilith sees humans as a tool to wield against Heaven and Hell, not necessarily as her children to protect. And the problem with that is what will she do with humans once the tool stops being useful?
People forget that there are three forces. Angels , Demons and the force for balance. The best solution is for Lilith to take over hell. the reason is the dragon won't let the Angels win. So hell must exist and we would want the most sympathetic evil running it. And Lilith does have some affection for her children. Look what she said , when she found Rathma's body.
I saw his point at the end, I too was ready to embrace the blesssed mother , making me king of Sanctuary while siphining me power from the shadows , sign me up for that
I think we played right into mephisto's hands it feels like every move we made directly screwed over sanctuary there towards the end Elias had terrible methods but the result would've provided humanity with a fighting chance
I think Elias was one of the only variables that Mephisto had little control over / planning for. Once Elias was out of the way Mephisto's manipulations really paid off.
Hey! I am glad you like the quote. Personally I thought he was an interesting villian. He wanted to stop demons corruption on sanctuary but had to play with fire. He clearly didn't trust Lilith which is why he needed a back up plan. His last moments he let it all out. He saw himself as the hero and every else the villian.
He was absolutely NOT wrong. Lilith was one of the only people willing to stand not only against the Primes, but against the Eternal Conflict itself. And that is the big distinction. Because as proven in Diablo 3, the angels ARE NOT ON OUR SIDE. Those few who would work with humanity are EXCEPTIONS, not the norm. The angles as a group literally had a vote on whether or not to destroy all of humanity and it only barely failed to pass. They couldn't even be bothered to help when Mathiel tried to bring about the extinction of all humanity. One of my biggest gripes with the game is that you MUST side with Mephisto (which in and of itself was stupid) and couldn't aid Lilith in taking him down. Frankly if it had been an option to join Lilith I'm certain a LOT of players would. Because Elias was right. She was one of the few who were entirely on the side of humanity. With Tyrial being the only other one.
She may have been on the human's side, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't bring ruin to them as well. She's a demon. She literally cannot do anything good. She's slain just as many humans as she has tried to "save." Lilith is always looking out for herself, no one else. Not even her children. She protected Sanctuary because it was her sanctuary away from Heaven and Hell, not because her children were in danger. Then when she decided to rule Hell herself, she couldn't care any less for her children, and started corrupting them to serve her. Humans are cannon fodder for the Eternal Conflict to Lilith.
@chase5436 Actually she has shown both affection and care to her "children". When the initial suggestion that the Nephilim are dangerous and should be put down was made, Lilith immediately murdered everyone who suggested it in a berserk Fury that anyone dare threaten her children
@@zanewolfe9754 Because that was her future army against Heaven and Hell. The fact that they were dangerous was important to her. Not because she cared for them, but that she cared what they could do for her.
@@zanewolfe9754 No, but demons are incapable of caring for the right reasons. She's the daughter of Mephisto, she's extremely manipulative, and obviously very good at what she does. Inarius and Lilith are not good, they were never good. Demons are not good. Angels are not good (they almost wiped out humanity multiple times). There is no one on the humans' "side" in Diablo, just things trying to take advantage of them. The only being who has ever shown they were on the humans' side was Tyrael, who chose to be a mortal for that very reason. Would Lilith sacrifice her demonic heritage and power so she could truly see and care about humanity like Tyrael? No.
Elias summoned the daughter of hatred to stop the terror of the cathedral of light. Another plot twist: what if while he was in Hell, Inarius was at some point unknowingly possessed by Diablo…which is WHY, Inarius was so obsessed with returning to Heaven?
@@aaronsmith-jovanovic2482they left the High Heavens by their own selfish choice. Knowing that once they leave they won't be welcomed back to High Heavens. So there's no one to blame but themselves.
@@beastmotozLooking at the followers of Heaven I certainly don't side with them, either. Pyres, tithes, murder, etc. Certainly not a fan of Hell and the prime evils, either. Their side also seeks to murder people. Both sides suck but I feel like Lilith's side was more "just be free. Don't be a slave to those who hate you."
Amazing job man! Diablo does a wonderful job conveying the overall story but the way you focus in on the integral characters and parts brings another aspect, I love it!
Another great video! Speaking of Diablo lore and Rathma's Prophecy I wonder why only the first part is focused on. I mean we as players are informed that it is highly likely that we will not encounter Diablo and Ball before Memphisto is dealt with. All part of the same prophecy.
Thank you nyx. You helped me find the temple of rathma in game. Me and my friend are one step closer. I appreciate it more than I can say that you put this specific video out.
All good villains think they are the hero. "The path to hell is paved with good intentions". Elias was probably the best character in D4 honestly. They could have done so much more with him but they got stuck on the "we don't want him to overshadow our demon mommy"..
When I saw Elias alongside Lilith, I do thought his actions may be justified but also mad with fulfilling Lilith’s goal at any cost. To be honest though, Elias and Lilith have their morals in a complex because they both did what they had to do to have sanctuary empowered enough to stand a chance against the 7 evils released by Malthael’s death after he shattered the black soulstone. It does left me in a mystery about Elias and Lilith. Sometimes, I do wonder why they intend to go to such lengths such has having some of humanity destroy each other.🤔
There is two interpretation of what is good in Diablo universe. The store seems similar to Star Wars. first is Western look at the universe, where Angels are good and Demons are bad. There is a misinterpretation of Eastern Philosophy, and Taoism in particular, where the goal is balance. angels aren't really good and disputably Demons are not evil. Angels instead represent Order, where Demons represent chaos. Which sort of borrowed from Mesopotamia, hence the united for of all the evils was basically Tiamat. Angels can act in evil manners. Inarius is the prime example, and so is Maltheal and the leader of the Angels as well. In taoism nothing is pure. So there is some disharmony with in the angels. On the other hand there is Hope in the Demons. Lilith is that. Lilith has something other Demons don't have, atleast major demon, and has some idea of Love. But because of what she was born of and how she is raised, it's twisted. It could be the other being Inarius and Lilith created that is in play. The serpant that protects Santuary. I would like that in the end we find the serpant is really Rathma's subconscious. Other than the first being, I dont like the idea of a consciousness created from thin air. The serpant might of influenced Lilith and Inarius to keep the balance. The serpant might of made Lilith mad to protect Sanctuary. It might of influence Elias to bring back LIlith, because Inarius is back. When Demons are winning, the serpant might of return the power to the Nephalim to counter the Evil. and when the Evil is defeated, it might of influence their release.
@@slewone4905 I don't think Lilith is all that unique with Love thing. Baal at the end of D2 was not feeling so good about player killing his "brothers", and that implies some familial feelings. One can argue that Chaotic Demons are more empathetic, for better or worse, that Angels altogether. The only Angel who was involved with us deeply was Tyrael and he lost his angelhood... Though I tend to agree with general point that Sanctuary is not really that clear cut Good vs Evil. Both sides represent something bit different something with potential for both Good and Evil. But there is also issue of corruption. We saw Angels fall. Lose their angelic nature and sometime get twisted to full on demon. Why does anyone not think same applies to Demons? There is quest chain in Dried Steppes where you meet one such potential case in lesser demon. Perhaps this can happen with powerful ones too? And here in lies Elias's miscalculation I think. He though that Lilith's creator status would mean she would be Savior. But she was too prideful/stubborn to be corrupted BY Sanctuary and was just trying to make it one more Hells domain and use people as leverage to gain power.
I think instead of trying to destroy Ellias and Lilith we should have been more preoccupied with creating a counter-organization while they were battling Inarius and the Hells
I fear we will disagree on some assertions here. Unlike Lorath, Elias at least tried to do something, and I believe Lilith and he could have succeeded. But, I won't go any further here, because I know some people will be deeply disturbed by the ugly truth that Blizzard have twisted so much and made us go after the WRONG 'enemy'.
Ever play World of Warcraft, mate? We go after the wrong enemy all the time, lol. But seriously.... you are not wrong that it feels wrong to kill Lillith. Elias though.... not sure.
@@davenonnenberg, no, not since Warcraft 3 & Frozen Throne. I will agree that some of the methods he and Lilith used may be morally questionable, but the goals and ideals are not. And you're absolutely right that it was wrong - a mistake that might cost us all, and one that even Blizzard cannot ignore - you'll see. In fact, there's a solid hint that she will return in the expansions. Remember the dungeon from Prologue, slightly north of Nevesk? It's called the "Tormented Ruins", and the tome inside speaks slightly further on the prophecy of Rathma, and the voice seems to be him. The last part says: "I saw a child give birth to a mother as Hatred's sun set, and that of Terror and Destruction dawned". Check it for yourself. It's on the Skeletal Remains, but find them BEFORE you face the dungeon boss, or it won't be obtainable.
This comment comes late, but excellent video and great precursor to a moral dilemma. A few things to consider, demons and angels are ruled by their nature, which are their assigned attributes. Diablo being terror, Mephisto being hatered, Tyreal being justice, etc. Their nature controls their actions and it was suggested they can't help being who they are. Lilith's attribute is sin. To those siding with team Lilith and Elias, I think they are overlooking something important. While it does seem like Elias' intentions were good, his obsession and actions resulted in a loss of humanity. What's the point of saving the world if humanity is lost in the process? Elias' obsession and loss of humanity prevented him from seeing the bigger picture, which is Lilith's demonic nature that only acts in self interest. Let's not forget the church scene very early in the game, when Lilith awakens the townfolks' sinful desire whom mauled and beat the priest to death. Lilith encouraged and seduced the people into their sin, therefore, this should be a precursor to what humanity would eventually become had Elias and Lilith won. Team adventurer and Lorath thought it's better to struggle or die as a human than to live as a demon.
“The road to hell is often paved with good intentions. The funny thing about morality is that you can justify anything when it’s in the pursuit of a greater good. It’s all a matter of where you draw the line.” I don’t remember where that quote comes from, but I was reminded of it watching this
During the whole campaing I was wishing to side with them instead of Mephisto..(really miss champions of norath when playing diablo sometimes) I still don't get what made Lilith more evil than her father. When I saw she was truly sad over Rathma's death is when I felt she wasn't as bad as they making her out to be and I realized we were being used.
She's pretty complex. She's a demon and demon's gotta demon. She's a Social Darwinist down to the very core and thus believes in survival of the fittest (pretty demonic ideal to have tbh), hence her lack of qualms about sacrificing those she saw as weak and unworthy to empower the strong. However, she's firmly on the side of Sanctuary and is against anyone who would destroy or hold back the potential of humanity, be it Heaven, Hell or even her ex-husband.
I think that we might have just fucked the humanity pretty bad. We were played like a fiddle by the dead doggo, we destroyed a chance to end the eternal war and we let out Mephisto on a very enthusiastic walk.
Its really not worth living in the world that Lilith and Elias were going to make. The wanderer should not have used the soulstone at all though. The soulstones can actually aid in the evil's recovery if they can tap into the fragment of the worldstone's power. The wanderer should have destroyed or mangled the recovering Mephisto, just to delay his reformation as much as possible and then killed Lillith as normal. There wasn't anybody strong enough to stop the wanderer anyway (who was probably another emergent nephalem, aren't there supposed to be more popping up because the worldstone was broken? I wonder what happened to the last one?). Anyone choosing Lilith has no imagination (this is the "Griffith did nothing wrong" crowd lol). Neyrelle was played by Mephisto the whole time and he neutralized the wanderer into giving up any of their own input by simple reverse psychology.
I can't agree with Lilith and Elias. First of all, Lilith doesn't want to actually protect us as a mother, she sees in us her potential army to win a war stcuk in an eternal stall. Elias, while more concerned about humanity survival, has the hands stained with the blood of many innocents, he can find any justifications he wants but he is ultimately putting humanity into the hands of Lilith, turning it into a legion lusting for carnage, feeding on the weaks. In the end, the direction the story is going is quite clear: Humanity has the tools to defend themselves without surrender to either the angels or the demons. How we'll do it remains to be seen, but as humans are mixed in nature, so we must seek balane between light and darkness.
Love these kinds of videos about Lilith and Elias, I was basically screaming at these characters while I played through the campaign with my friend, just so many stupid decisions by so many characters, even my own, telling Elias he was no longer immortal BEFORE we have him cornered, Elias and Lilith spend the entire campaign warning us of what's to come and that they want to make sanctuary able to defend itself against the very real threat of destruction at the hands of malicious prime evils and entirely apathetic angels, now we're truly defenseless, Mephisto is out of his imprisonment and in the charge of an idiot with one arm, and it's just a matter of time, all thanks to my character and the idiots they followed
Its also interesting how we instigate hostility against Elias first, not the other way around. Our very first interaction with him had him happy to see Lorath from assuming that his old teacher might be joining him...and then getting shanked before he could even finish his friendly greeting. He actively did not want to fight for most of his appearances and it's only when we mess with him enough when he gets pissed off into finally becoming actively hostile. Even his respawn-spam section is just him trying to convince us to stop fighting him from futility and join the effort to defend humanity. What's also kind of funny is how Elias and Lilith are polite and cordial for most of their interactions with us, and only towards their doom do they finally call us out as being a bunch of idiots since those are the points when our idiocy reaches apocalyptic (literally) levels.
@@joshuakim5240to be fair, Elias *did* slaughter a village merely to perform some rituals. And before you point out that we killed a bunch of people (bandits), remember that they had red health bars above their heads.
i hope in d5 i get to go to the tree of whispers and see elias' head hangin there just moaning "it wasnt worth it. it wasnt worth it." over and over. either that or some cool plot stuff
Mephisto has been recuperating since the end of Diablo 2 when he was freed from the temple in Kurast and destroyed. Reaper of souls had no bearing on his
I still think Diablo 4 would've been more interesting if we actually sided with Lilith against the Church. Could've been the first time we actually had demonic allies against hell and heaven.
Lilith and Elias where trying to save humanity from both the angels and the demons. At the end the nephalem was a fool who did not understood the consequences of his actions
Lilliths world would’ve been humans giving into their savage desires. Murdering, raping, cannibalism, etc. He literally just traded one evil for another.
The entire theme of diablo is "Good Intentions, bad actions" if you look back at Lazarus, Zultun Kulle, Adria, Aidan, Tal Rasha and Elias. They all thought they were doing the right thing. But then you realize that despite their resolve, they were all played. As if the message is "If evil cannot claim you, it will control you through your ambitions" Because when you think about it: Zultun Kulle's ultimate weapon: the Black soul Stone was eventually used by Diablo to become as powerful as Tathamet himself, Adria ended up using her own daughter to summon a Prime Evil, Lazarus and Leoric ended up falling to madness. Aidan ended up turning into the dark wanderer and even Tal Rasha himself ended up succumbing to the influence of Ba'al. And Elias - even if succeeded - would have ended up turning Sanctuary into a giant experimentation laboratory for Lilith ambition since all she ever cared about was creating the Nephilim to use them to her own Plans. I think Lorath question was a valid one "Was it all worth it?" because when you think about it, all these individuals thought they were fighting for the good of humanity when in fact all they did was bring humanity down to its knees. Just like Tyrael said in Diablo 3, the forces of hell cannot be stopped unless both Angels and Men unite together. Any other solution might be simply playing into The burning hell's hands, Mephisto is the biggest example.
Even Lilith called Elias a fool, and I agree with her. He may have started off with the best of intentions, but once he submitted to his vanity he was doomed. His end was going to come, if not by our hand then likely by Lilith's Stopping both Elias and Lilith was the thing to do. Their methods are too extreme, too soaked in blood to work. All that said, I have severe doubts that Lilith's defeat will last long. I suspect she will be back sooner rather than later. She comes off as more resilient than any demon or angel I've throughout my time with the series.
For all the evil Lilith has done, she does have a point about it all. Siding with Mephisto was a foolish idea; he's the master of the long game. And humanity does need a shepherd to lead them against the Eternal Conflict. Who knows, maybe the Wanderer will wise up to that and finally take the difficult path of leading humanity to fight against Heaven and Hell, but at humanity's terms.
@@Punishthefalse Yeah, the "alliance" with Mephisto was barely convenient. I'm guessing we'll end up restricting Lilith at some point to stop him. It's not beyond possibility anyway.
Elias hid behind a noble intent, but it was a selfish need for power and station that made his actions truly heinous. Evil for even a noble purpose is still evil.
Given how many times Lilith tempted people into corruption with promises of fulfilling their desires, I always assumed that Elias was no different. Elias wasn't Lilith's partner, he was her stooge. She claimed that she had a plan to defend Sanctuary, but really she just wanted Mephisto's power to be able to rule unopposed. Elias fell for her trick, and got in too deep to admit that he was being played.
She wanted mankind to be free to make the choice they wanted. The humans chose to kill the priest, as he had shamed them for so long for what he called "sins".
You are just thinking demons = bad in this case. If you had read about Lilith before the story of D4, you would’ve realized that she truly loved her children.
Always excited when you upload a new video. You're like luetin09 but for diablo. Deep lore and captivating narration that is both engaging but also relaxing
Unless u worded it wrong the price of the answer of the tree of whispers isn’t fatal It’s only after u die u gotta give ur head according to what you said in the video So why is it fatal?
That wasn't Deckard. Meshiff grew old and kept calling that dude the wrong name, because he obviously looks a lot like Deckard. This story takes place a very long time after the previous Diablo entries, so Deckard is most likely deceased due to old age, if not something worse.
I find Lilith to be far more fun and cool than any of the prime evils, so I do like what Elias did. But I don't think anything he did after that was redeeming for how much of hell he brought to Sanctuary. Save the world from the forces of hell by making humans into monsters and no real plan for dialing that back and perhaps even challenge Lilith afterwards. With that said, I did and still do, wish we could joined Lilith.
I do not doubt Elias thought he was helping humanity but with the doors of heaven closed humanity needs to find out how to permanently close hell. Not side with and empower demons. There wouldn't be a Diablo game if that ever happened successfully, however. Religious persecution irl is a huge no-no but if they could just erase the Triune would probably weaken the demons enough for someone to do it. Humanity is as capable of great evil as it is great good and is definitely worth protecting. But not by demons.
feels wierd that imperius, tyreal and the high heavens stood by and did absolutely nothing while lillith, inarius and mephisto were playing merry hell with sanctuary. I hope the first D4 expansion explains that like maybe heaven is in civil war between imperius and tyreal due to being out of balance without a full angerius council.
Nobody knew where Tyrael went. Lorath mentioned that Tyrael discovered something which he didn't tell the Horadrim about and urgently made his exit to...confront it or something? We might know what happened to Tyrael in story DLCs, I guess.
I wonder how long blizzard can play the "humanity is weak" card. I mean in D3 we had the nephalem the beeing of ancient power, the beeing so terrefying for heaven, hell and inarius so that he tuned the worldstone to supress them. In D2 the stone was destroyed. In D3 the nephalem returned. Rathma even unlocked the potenial of some humans to become nephalem. IMHO humanity should know by now either heaven nor hell is a good choice. they should find a way to unlock their potential what was given as their birthright and kick heaven in the butt and hell in the nuts.
Well...the Nephalem characters are basically outcasts whose deeds aren't known to anyone outside their immediate circle, with those outside who do know about their deeds doubting them.
Elias was just another villain trying to justify his actions. Allying with Lilith was foolish. Lilith can claim all she wants to care about Sanctuary, fact is they stepped on a lot of people to get their objective. Did the city of Guulrahn have to be massacred just to protect Sanctuary? Elias also misread the prophecy/ had his own version of it(Much like Inarius). Its all fine and dandy to stand against demons and Hell but if you are sacrificing others just to get that job done, you are no savior. The villagers effected by Lilith went mad and crazy. "Was it all worth it is a cowards answer" No it isn't, if anything its just a way to deflect and pretend you are the victim here. While I think being a head on the tree of whispers is a .....pretty morbid fate, he had little regard for who he had to step on to get his way of "protecting Sanctuary" Lorath might of failed on being inactive(To be fair he comes off as a jaded bitter scholar then anything else) but he still had some principles left.
anything has it costs, better lives in your home with cruel mother rather than pray with the force that gives 0 fck seeing you as disgust or getting stomp by burning fire entire world until nothing is left.
I think Elias is a fool as there was no ethical approach to save humanity. Elias ignored all his history because, whenever there's a direct threat to Sanctuary, the Nephalem will always come out and do the impossible to save Sanctuary. If a Nephalem goes bad, there's always another that will come out and stop it. There's always this great balance that protects Sanctuary without ever needing to side with evil. Elias truly did it for himself and was always fail. Humanity were just pawns to justify the means to his end.
The only one that can help Nyrelle is Inarious who by now should be trapped in hell once more. He may finally see that he himself was corrupted by Mephisto long before he returned to Sanctuary. However I dont think the Angiris Council will ever forgive him. It is clear that the primes power level surpass the angels Diablo fools Malthael into corruption Bael fools Tyrael. The Primes moves in the eternal conflict always seems to be one move ahead there is no reason to believe this would be an exception.
Good intensions do not necessarily make you a "good guy." Yes, Elias wanted to save humanity, but he was willing to do heinous things to achieve that goal. His final words also show how selfish he was in his pursuits, lamenting that he didn't deserve his end, that *he* deserved to be at Lilith's side when she stands victorious over the Eternal Conflict. Neither of them understood, you can't save humanity by sacrificing what makes us human.
He simply needed to have gone about it differently. Yes, he was wrong. He would’ve saved humanity by killing them all. Not one person that came into contact with him was made better. His mission should’ve been summon Lilith and then gather the crystals of the world stone. Or, gathering the crystals of the world stone into a weapon capable of PERMANENTLY banishing demons.
@@steampunk3776 Dont think so because I read in Diablo wiki his head was taken by tree of whispers where " it stayed there for eternity". They made him look amazing, he was smart and had plans yet they made him dead. But hope he will return somehow.
Don’t get it twisted Elias is a bad guy. He is the definition of winning no matter how many bodies pile up. Elias is evil. He is a man who is more evil than some literal demons. His later rationale is just him being emo and picking the easiest path.
No one else has gone into the story detail like you did in this video... Will gladly sub to this channel.
Thank you for the kind words! I'm absolutely going the extra mile on these. The community deserves great videos.
@@NyxVellumnestly thank you. You just helped crack a lot of the secret quest with this. I’ll let you know. You are the person who located the temple of rathma by putting this video out. I didn’t know it’s true name. But if what is in this video is true, rathma is the prime evil. And his attribute is fear.
They more or less stole the story of how hes immortal from Conan the Barbarian lore. Instead of imbuing a amulet with his life force, they imbued his finger lol. Even kinda look the same
@@ActionRan not really… Conan didn’t make a deal with a demon. That’s such a weird take buddy… like no…. You are legit pigeon hole theorying
@@NyxVellum yo nyx you should look into mariner’s refuge… the name is a riddle, a mariner’s refuge is the sea. I find it weird when you scroll over the map it says the sea itself is undiscovered. Meaning it can be discovered.
Fun fact: There is a side quest that takes you to the summoning places in the introduction
Awesome!! Do you remember it’s name/where to start it?
@@NoVACorpsGaming once you kill Elias in the campaign, talk to the priest in Zarbinzet and youll get a quest to find Symon. i forgot what it was called, but thats the quest that takes you to where the trailer takes place :)
Yep! If you do the side quests, you will stumble upon it. I always do the side quests as they appear, so I got it without realizing it.
I actually guessed where it was going/what it was about pretty quickly; however I think I ran into it after Elias was dead. Very good side quest!
I also like the fact that it seems like originally Elias was going to spare Symon and use three mercenaries for the ritual, but one of them took off at last moment before entering the final dungeon.
@@NoVACorpsGaming its called By Three They Come
Elias' response to Lorath in his final moments were peak writing.
Elias was the goat of Diablo
Elias was such an intriguing character IMO. Clearly was skeptical of Lilith but thought of her as a necessary evil to save Sanctuary. Would fight her if he had to with his gained immortality. I mean, what better solution is there to the eternal conflict than to summon the being that created Sanctuary to escape the eternal conflict?
Inarius created Sanctuary to escape the Eternal Conflict. Lilith created Sanctuary to WIN the Eternal Conflict...
I think that initially he was willing to fight her with his immortality, but after he actually summoned her his mind was twisted by her presence. That was my interpretation of some of the cut scenes.
@@LokiTheAnsuz Totally not true. The story hinges on the fact that *both* created sanctuary to escape the Eternal Conflict and *both* later changed their motivations through millennia of torment.
@@austinhenry4092initially he never wanted to fight her, however he took every precautions in case Lilith turned out to be not what he expected of her. To his luck, Lilith exceeded his expectations, so both formed an alliance. Elias was still skeptical even after her summoning which he openly admitted. That makes him very pragmatic, and his reasoning behind all this does not indicate any shift in his behavior at any moment.
I feel like Lilith and Elias were trying to save humanity even if it wasn’t gone about in the best way. It feels like their goal was to end demons and angels and not have to face the eternal conflict anymore, and then they’d figure out what to do after that. I still kind of wish we could have sided with Lilith because honestly both sides suck in this conflict and both deserve to lose
Facts. Especially in the minds eye when she explains her motives and our character just roasts her. tbf tho it makes room for interesting expansions. The really weird thing i noticed is lilith is right but were supposed to kill her. Thanos was right but was killed by the avengers. Why are people that are right the enemy without question?
@@BigpoppawheelyBecause if you make decisions that bare a cost that loses yourself/humanity, the point of saving it becomes null.
If you are willing to kill someone to save your lufe, your life has been lost, even if you succeed.
Sanctuary would be turned into Lillith's domain, and the Humans would've been overcome by her Sin, and eventually they'd be Demons to thrawrt Angels and Demons. It's unfortunate Inarius's self-serving goals collapses the balance in Humans between Survival and Sacrifice.
I see that as 1 perspective believing their choices are righteous. You say if we make a decision that bares a cost that, but whats the cost for killing Lilith despite what she says to be true? Is sanctuary in even more danger by the prime evils since lilith was going to defend sanctuary? It was in danger of inarius destroying everything and lilith saved sanctuary from him trying to “redeem” himself. And now mephisto is corrupting neyrelle its a matter of time before the consequences are to be faced.
@@ArmageistMephisto said to The Wanderer: "I won't lie. There will be time when we are enemies ..." That says it all about his ultimate goal. Siding with Lilith would prevent that happening.
The best answer can not be given as it would end the series sadly. So joining her was never on the table
Elias and lilith made the most sense to me, to bad you cant join them
I have always thought that Elias has all the good intentions in mind. Summoning Lilith to save Sanctuary wasn't all a bad idea. He might have known as well that Lilith was not pure evil. Many people didn't know that Lilith having blue and grey eyes instead of flaming read was because she has good in her.
heterochromia was sign of witches it has nothing to do with good and bad.
Feels like we messed up by killing both Lilith and Elias! I think mephisto will be back for sure. ( With a blizz expansion)
They will all be back im sure of it. By three they come
Funny that they picked the girl with one arm to be the next wanderer. I wonder if she’s gunna get a new arm. Maybe Mephisto will talk her into doing some dark magic or something
yeah, feels like Mephisto was pulling the strings all along
That’s the funny thing though, is don’t most of the prime evils want to be imprisoned inside of the soul stones? So that they can corrupt the world stone shard and use it for their own needs?
Well yeah Mephisto will be back. He's being taken on a tour by a strong minded stubborn kid.
It's easy to argue Elias was not evil at heart. Flawed yes, but not a typical villain by any stretch. He took the "by any means necessary" approach to defending Sanctuary against the Prime Evils. You can certainly say he became corrupted and enthralled by Lilith but his end goal was the saving of Sanctuary...he was no cut and paste cookie cutter villain.
And his dying speech was really well done by the voice actor, I found myself doubting the need to kill him. "Was it worth it?" That is a coward's question. It suit's you." GODDDDANGGGGGG BRUH
Wow this was an amazing video. Such deep coverage of the lore. Elias is such an interesting character I wish they would gone even deeper with him. I was surprise by his lines on deathbed to lorath on my playthrough. Almost like he drop the mic 🎤 lol
Elias: "The only being willing to stand against the prime evils was Lilith"
Our hero in Diablos 1-3: *cough*
Diablo 2 act 3 sorcerer Mephisto farm
Pretty sure Tyrial forsook heaven to help humans fight the prime evils, so like no big deal.
It’s cause she’s a girl so we all gotta give her props for being the first/only
Pretty sure it was willingness to stand against both the prime evils and the heavens, since everyone has been standing against the primes since D1 but no one had any plans of resistance vs heaven hence why Malthael did so much damage (literally killed more humans in like a week than the primes did throughout centuries). Elias resorted to Lilith due to being raised in the era where everyone finally knows that the angels suck for the most part and don't have humanity's back. In the event that the heavens and hells both decide to just wipe out humanity out of convenience, humanity would be alone.
Malthael's rampage was the thing that made humanity realize that heaven wasn't on its side, and that the angels that helped it were outliers rather than norms (Tyrael and...idk, Hadriel maybe?). That's also why and how Inarius was able to manipulate so much goodwill from humanity: he pretended to be one of those outlier generous angels despite hating humans almost as much as Malthael did.
My level 99 Javazon with lightning sunder charms disagrees too.
I think Elias begrudgingly took the only road he could to save sanctuary. I think Lilith did the only thing she could to try to save sanctuary from overwhelming opposition on all sides. And we spat in their faces. We didn’t even question it.
I mean, I went through the whole second half of the game like, "Why are we fighting these guys?". Angels are shit, the Primes ARE coming back, and Lilith has a genuine interest in helping mankind and sanctuary. Especially after she spoke at length directly to you after you were caught scrying her the second time. She never coerced anyone to do anything, merely gave them the means to make their own choices which were on them if they turned out negatively. Its good to make the "antagonist" compelling, but they kind of goofed by making her the most rational character in this installment.
I wish they would have given us an option. I would have chosen to hook up with Lilith and breed new life into Santuary, she was sexy. Let's burn the Angel's out of the sky, says I.
@@williemanillie4974 get help
@@williemanillie4974 I kept thinking we were going to side with Lilith and then we didn't... for no reason
@@Torresgamingchannel Exactly. I couldn't believe how the plot unraveled. Be it my decision, i would side with Elias and Lilith.
If Lilith actually was going to do what she said, and destroy the primes to rule Hell and keep it out of Sanctuary, then yeah we fucked up. Heaven doesn't give a rats ass about humanity, Inarius is a doofus, and now Lilith is gone. The Primes are gonna have a field day with us.
If that's what she wanted, why even do any evil stuff beyond what's absolutely necessary?
Most of what she wanted could've been achieved through cooperation and good faith. Lilith and Elias both had the ability to disguise themselves as normal humans so that isn't much of an excuse.
I mean she's a demon so she isn't even capable of not doing evil, even when she tries lol
A lot of the "evil" she did though was fighting against a false religion based on lies that only existed to help inarius, who is absolutely insane now, get back into heavens no matter the cost, even though he was basically a demon at this point. I don't know if we have seen the last of inarius honestly. But who knows
The game does a somewhat ok job of making heaven morally grey (mostly in D3) as well as Lilith. Much to the dialogue in the game reveals Lilith sees humans as a tool to wield against Heaven and Hell, not necessarily as her children to protect. And the problem with that is what will she do with humans once the tool stops being useful?
People forget that there are three forces. Angels , Demons and the force for balance. The best solution is for Lilith to take over hell. the reason is the dragon won't let the Angels win. So hell must exist and we would want the most sympathetic evil running it. And Lilith does have some affection for her children. Look what she said , when she found Rathma's body.
I saw his point at the end, I too was ready to embrace the blesssed mother , making me king of Sanctuary while siphining me power from the shadows , sign me up for that
I think we played right into mephisto's hands it feels like every move we made directly screwed over sanctuary there towards the end Elias had terrible methods but the result would've provided humanity with a fighting chance
Their would of been no humanity left.
@@ASageCalledQ so you would rather humanity be completely wiped out and sanctuary ravaged?
Yeah it was pretty obvious, when he appeared in the portal through which his new vessel went.
I think Elias was one of the only variables that Mephisto had little control over / planning for. Once Elias was out of the way Mephisto's manipulations really paid off.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Thank you for watching guys. Thumbs up on the video helps a bunch. ♥
Exactly this. He had good intentions... but Santuary is screwed having to relay on both Heven and Hell. Curious to see what happens moving forward!
Hey! I am glad you like the quote. Personally I thought he was an interesting villian. He wanted to stop demons corruption on sanctuary but had to play with fire. He clearly didn't trust Lilith which is why he needed a back up plan. His last moments he let it all out. He saw himself as the hero and every else the villian.
He was absolutely NOT wrong. Lilith was one of the only people willing to stand not only against the Primes, but against the Eternal Conflict itself. And that is the big distinction. Because as proven in Diablo 3, the angels ARE NOT ON OUR SIDE. Those few who would work with humanity are EXCEPTIONS, not the norm. The angles as a group literally had a vote on whether or not to destroy all of humanity and it only barely failed to pass. They couldn't even be bothered to help when Mathiel tried to bring about the extinction of all humanity.
One of my biggest gripes with the game is that you MUST side with Mephisto (which in and of itself was stupid) and couldn't aid Lilith in taking him down. Frankly if it had been an option to join Lilith I'm certain a LOT of players would. Because Elias was right. She was one of the few who were entirely on the side of humanity. With Tyrial being the only other one.
She may have been on the human's side, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't bring ruin to them as well. She's a demon. She literally cannot do anything good. She's slain just as many humans as she has tried to "save." Lilith is always looking out for herself, no one else. Not even her children. She protected Sanctuary because it was her sanctuary away from Heaven and Hell, not because her children were in danger. Then when she decided to rule Hell herself, she couldn't care any less for her children, and started corrupting them to serve her. Humans are cannon fodder for the Eternal Conflict to Lilith.
@chase5436 Actually she has shown both affection and care to her "children". When the initial suggestion that the Nephilim are dangerous and should be put down was made, Lilith immediately murdered everyone who suggested it in a berserk Fury that anyone dare threaten her children
@@zanewolfe9754 Because that was her future army against Heaven and Hell. The fact that they were dangerous was important to her. Not because she cared for them, but that she cared what they could do for her.
@@chase5436 Or it could be a mother's rage at a threat to her children. Being a demon doesn't mean she is incapable of caring.
@@zanewolfe9754 No, but demons are incapable of caring for the right reasons. She's the daughter of Mephisto, she's extremely manipulative, and obviously very good at what she does. Inarius and Lilith are not good, they were never good. Demons are not good. Angels are not good (they almost wiped out humanity multiple times). There is no one on the humans' "side" in Diablo, just things trying to take advantage of them. The only being who has ever shown they were on the humans' side was Tyrael, who chose to be a mortal for that very reason. Would Lilith sacrifice her demonic heritage and power so she could truly see and care about humanity like Tyrael? No.
Elias' story is a tale of precaution on what happens when you lose your head.
Hehe
Nice.
Elias summoned the daughter of hatred to stop the terror of the cathedral of light.
Another plot twist: what if while he was in Hell, Inarius was at some point unknowingly possessed by Diablo…which is WHY, Inarius was so obsessed with returning to Heaven?
Ouuuuh, I like that idea.
Biblically fallen angels yearn to go back home. Heaven. But are forever cast out. So i feel like he is full of regret
nope, you know writers never think that deeply
@@aaronsmith-jovanovic2482they left the High Heavens by their own selfish choice. Knowing that once they leave they won't be welcomed back to High Heavens. So there's no one to blame but themselves.
@@beastmotozLooking at the followers of Heaven I certainly don't side with them, either. Pyres, tithes, murder, etc. Certainly not a fan of Hell and the prime evils, either. Their side also seeks to murder people. Both sides suck but I feel like Lilith's side was more "just be free. Don't be a slave to those who hate you."
Amazing job man! Diablo does a wonderful job conveying the overall story but the way you focus in on the integral characters and parts brings another aspect, I love it!
Another great video!
Speaking of Diablo lore and Rathma's Prophecy I wonder why only the first part is focused on. I mean we as players are informed that it is highly likely that we will not encounter Diablo and Ball before Memphisto is dealt with. All part of the same prophecy.
Thank you for the kind words!
Not many has done a lot of videos on my crush that I've found other this one, subscribed.
Thank you nyx. You helped me find the temple of rathma in game. Me and my friend are one step closer. I appreciate it more than I can say that you put this specific video out.
All good villains think they are the hero. "The path to hell is paved with good intentions".
Elias was probably the best character in D4 honestly. They could have done so much more with him but they got stuck on the "we don't want him to overshadow our demon mommy"..
What amazing level of story telling! Keep up the good work
When I saw Elias alongside Lilith, I do thought his actions may be justified but also mad with fulfilling Lilith’s goal at any cost. To be honest though, Elias and Lilith have their morals in a complex because they both did what they had to do to have sanctuary empowered enough to stand a chance against the 7 evils released by Malthael’s death after he shattered the black soulstone. It does left me in a mystery about Elias and Lilith. Sometimes, I do wonder why they intend to go to such lengths such has having some of humanity destroy each other.🤔
There is two interpretation of what is good in Diablo universe. The store seems similar to Star Wars. first is Western look at the universe, where Angels are good and Demons are bad. There is a misinterpretation of Eastern Philosophy, and Taoism in particular, where the goal is balance. angels aren't really good and disputably Demons are not evil. Angels instead represent Order, where Demons represent chaos. Which sort of borrowed from Mesopotamia, hence the united for of all the evils was basically Tiamat.
Angels can act in evil manners. Inarius is the prime example, and so is Maltheal and the leader of the Angels as well. In taoism nothing is pure. So there is some disharmony with in the angels. On the other hand there is Hope in the Demons. Lilith is that. Lilith has something other Demons don't have, atleast major demon, and has some idea of Love. But because of what she was born of and how she is raised, it's twisted. It could be the other being Inarius and Lilith created that is in play. The serpant that protects Santuary. I would like that in the end we find the serpant is really Rathma's subconscious. Other than the first being, I dont like the idea of a consciousness created from thin air.
The serpant might of influenced Lilith and Inarius to keep the balance. The serpant might of made Lilith mad to protect Sanctuary. It might of influence Elias to bring back LIlith, because Inarius is back. When Demons are winning, the serpant might of return the power to the Nephalim to counter the Evil. and when the Evil is defeated, it might of influence their release.
@@slewone4905 I don't think Lilith is all that unique with Love thing. Baal at the end of D2 was not feeling so good about player killing his "brothers", and that implies some familial feelings. One can argue that Chaotic Demons are more empathetic, for better or worse, that Angels altogether. The only Angel who was involved with us deeply was Tyrael and he lost his angelhood...
Though I tend to agree with general point that Sanctuary is not really that clear cut Good vs Evil. Both sides represent something bit different something with potential for both Good and Evil.
But there is also issue of corruption. We saw Angels fall. Lose their angelic nature and sometime get twisted to full on demon. Why does anyone not think same applies to Demons? There is quest chain in Dried Steppes where you meet one such potential case in lesser demon. Perhaps this can happen with powerful ones too?
And here in lies Elias's miscalculation I think. He though that Lilith's creator status would mean she would be Savior. But she was too prideful/stubborn to be corrupted BY Sanctuary and was just trying to make it one more Hells domain and use people as leverage to gain power.
7uuuu
I think instead of trying to destroy Ellias and Lilith we should have been more preoccupied with creating a counter-organization while they were battling Inarius and the Hells
I fear we will disagree on some assertions here.
Unlike Lorath, Elias at least tried to do something, and I believe Lilith and he could have succeeded. But, I won't go any further here, because I know some people will be deeply disturbed by the ugly truth that Blizzard have twisted so much and made us go after the WRONG 'enemy'.
Ever play World of Warcraft, mate? We go after the wrong enemy all the time, lol. But seriously.... you are not wrong that it feels wrong to kill Lillith. Elias though.... not sure.
@@davenonnenberg, no, not since Warcraft 3 & Frozen Throne.
I will agree that some of the methods he and Lilith used may be morally questionable, but the goals and ideals are not. And you're absolutely right that it was wrong - a mistake that might cost us all, and one that even Blizzard cannot ignore - you'll see.
In fact, there's a solid hint that she will return in the expansions. Remember the dungeon from Prologue, slightly north of Nevesk? It's called the "Tormented Ruins", and the tome inside speaks slightly further on the prophecy of Rathma, and the voice seems to be him. The last part says: "I saw a child give birth to a mother as Hatred's sun set, and that of Terror and Destruction dawned". Check it for yourself. It's on the Skeletal Remains, but find them BEFORE you face the dungeon boss, or it won't be obtainable.
I was siding with Lilith and Elias while I was playing. They wanted to save Sanctuary and humanity.
This comment comes late, but excellent video and great precursor to a moral dilemma. A few things to consider, demons and angels are ruled by their nature, which are their assigned attributes. Diablo being terror, Mephisto being hatered, Tyreal being justice, etc. Their nature controls their actions and it was suggested they can't help being who they are. Lilith's attribute is sin.
To those siding with team Lilith and Elias, I think they are overlooking something important. While it does seem like Elias' intentions were good, his obsession and actions resulted in a loss of humanity. What's the point of saving the world if humanity is lost in the process? Elias' obsession and loss of humanity prevented him from seeing the bigger picture, which is Lilith's demonic nature that only acts in self interest.
Let's not forget the church scene very early in the game, when Lilith awakens the townfolks' sinful desire whom mauled and beat the priest to death. Lilith encouraged and seduced the people into their sin, therefore, this should be a precursor to what humanity would eventually become had Elias and Lilith won. Team adventurer and Lorath thought it's better to struggle or die as a human than to live as a demon.
“The road to hell is often paved with good intentions. The funny thing about morality is that you can justify anything when it’s in the pursuit of a greater good. It’s all a matter of where you draw the line.”
I don’t remember where that quote comes from, but I was reminded of it watching this
During the whole campaing I was wishing to side with them instead of Mephisto..(really miss champions of norath when playing diablo sometimes) I still don't get what made Lilith more evil than her father. When I saw she was truly sad over Rathma's death is when I felt she wasn't as bad as they making her out to be and I realized we were being used.
She's pretty complex. She's a demon and demon's gotta demon. She's a Social Darwinist down to the very core and thus believes in survival of the fittest (pretty demonic ideal to have tbh), hence her lack of qualms about sacrificing those she saw as weak and unworthy to empower the strong.
However, she's firmly on the side of Sanctuary and is against anyone who would destroy or hold back the potential of humanity, be it Heaven, Hell or even her ex-husband.
Champions!
We were playing on the wrong side. Although I don't really know if there was a good side to choose.
I think that we might have just fucked the humanity pretty bad. We were played like a fiddle by the dead doggo, we destroyed a chance to end the eternal war and we let out Mephisto on a very enthusiastic walk.
I like Elias. He's cool in my book.
Its really not worth living in the world that Lilith and Elias were going to make. The wanderer should not have used the soulstone at all though. The soulstones can actually aid in the evil's recovery if they can tap into the fragment of the worldstone's power. The wanderer should have destroyed or mangled the recovering Mephisto, just to delay his reformation as much as possible and then killed Lillith as normal. There wasn't anybody strong enough to stop the wanderer anyway (who was probably another emergent nephalem, aren't there supposed to be more popping up because the worldstone was broken? I wonder what happened to the last one?). Anyone choosing Lilith has no imagination (this is the "Griffith did nothing wrong" crowd lol). Neyrelle was played by Mephisto the whole time and he neutralized the wanderer into giving up any of their own input by simple reverse psychology.
What is the "Griffith did no wrong" thing?
@@SonOfTheDawn515 Look up the manga/anime Berserk for context. It’s a meme statement from edgy kids.
“That is a coward’s question. It suits you.” Damn that is a the biggest roast I’ve ever heard.
It is clear from the start he is the bad guy. He was a bald man in a suit.
I can't agree with Lilith and Elias. First of all, Lilith doesn't want to actually protect us as a mother, she sees in us her potential army to win a war stcuk in an eternal stall. Elias, while more concerned about humanity survival, has the hands stained with the blood of many innocents, he can find any justifications he wants but he is ultimately putting humanity into the hands of Lilith, turning it into a legion lusting for carnage, feeding on the weaks.
In the end, the direction the story is going is quite clear: Humanity has the tools to defend themselves without surrender to either the angels or the demons. How we'll do it remains to be seen, but as humans are mixed in nature, so we must seek balane between light and darkness.
One of the most reasonable posts I've seen so far.
Love these kinds of videos about Lilith and Elias, I was basically screaming at these characters while I played through the campaign with my friend, just so many stupid decisions by so many characters, even my own, telling Elias he was no longer immortal BEFORE we have him cornered, Elias and Lilith spend the entire campaign warning us of what's to come and that they want to make sanctuary able to defend itself against the very real threat of destruction at the hands of malicious prime evils and entirely apathetic angels, now we're truly defenseless, Mephisto is out of his imprisonment and in the charge of an idiot with one arm, and it's just a matter of time, all thanks to my character and the idiots they followed
Its also interesting how we instigate hostility against Elias first, not the other way around. Our very first interaction with him had him happy to see Lorath from assuming that his old teacher might be joining him...and then getting shanked before he could even finish his friendly greeting. He actively did not want to fight for most of his appearances and it's only when we mess with him enough when he gets pissed off into finally becoming actively hostile. Even his respawn-spam section is just him trying to convince us to stop fighting him from futility and join the effort to defend humanity.
What's also kind of funny is how Elias and Lilith are polite and cordial for most of their interactions with us, and only towards their doom do they finally call us out as being a bunch of idiots since those are the points when our idiocy reaches apocalyptic (literally) levels.
@@joshuakim5240to be fair, Elias *did* slaughter a village merely to perform some rituals. And before you point out that we killed a bunch of people (bandits), remember that they had red health bars above their heads.
Bandits are bad regardless. They attack people, murder them, and steal. So either way, put them down.
i hope in d5 i get to go to the tree of whispers and see elias' head hangin there just moaning "it wasnt worth it. it wasnt worth it." over and over. either that or some cool plot stuff
Mephisto has been recuperating since the end of Diablo 2 when he was freed from the temple in Kurast and destroyed. Reaper of souls had no bearing on his
Adrian trapped his soul on the black soulstone.
All 7 demon Lords was trapped there when Diablo sieged heaven.
They were a few times in the campaign where I wish we had a choice.
Wow 7k! Congrats 🎉
I still think Diablo 4 would've been more interesting if we actually sided with Lilith against the Church. Could've been the first time we actually had demonic allies against hell and heaven.
Great Video! thank you for all the hard work. I too would team up with Lilith I don't think what he did was wrong.
Thanks for watching!
Amazing video! Keep it up
For how big of a player he was in the story I was hoping for a more flashy or cooler death but I felt bad for him in the end
Lilith and Elias where trying to save humanity from both the angels and the demons.
At the end the nephalem was a fool who did not understood the consequences of his actions
"Everyone has a plan until they get stabbed in the neck..." - Lorath Nahr, probably.
Lilliths world would’ve been humans giving into their savage desires. Murdering, raping, cannibalism, etc. He literally just traded one evil for another.
I feel like they should bring her back in a dlc
I hypothesis Rathma knew it would all happen the way it happened. Rathma mind F'ed the Pale Man. That's how it all started in Diablo 4.
I wanted your Mephisto video and you’re 2 for 2, fantastic work.
The entire theme of diablo is "Good Intentions, bad actions" if you look back at Lazarus, Zultun Kulle, Adria, Aidan, Tal Rasha and Elias. They all thought they were doing the right thing. But then you realize that despite their resolve, they were all played. As if the message is "If evil cannot claim you, it will control you through your ambitions" Because when you think about it: Zultun Kulle's ultimate weapon: the Black soul Stone was eventually used by Diablo to become as powerful as Tathamet himself, Adria ended up using her own daughter to summon a Prime Evil, Lazarus and Leoric ended up falling to madness. Aidan ended up turning into the dark wanderer and even Tal Rasha himself ended up succumbing to the influence of Ba'al. And Elias - even if succeeded - would have ended up turning Sanctuary into a giant experimentation laboratory for Lilith ambition since all she ever cared about was creating the Nephilim to use them to her own Plans.
I think Lorath question was a valid one "Was it all worth it?" because when you think about it, all these individuals thought they were fighting for the good of humanity when in fact all they did was bring humanity down to its knees.
Just like Tyrael said in Diablo 3, the forces of hell cannot be stopped unless both Angels and Men unite together. Any other solution might be simply playing into The burning hell's hands, Mephisto is the biggest example.
the graphic is amazing.
Those button layouts are a crime
Even Lilith called Elias a fool, and I agree with her.
He may have started off with the best of intentions, but once he submitted to his vanity he was doomed. His end was going to come, if not by our hand then likely by Lilith's
Stopping both Elias and Lilith was the thing to do. Their methods are too extreme, too soaked in blood to work.
All that said, I have severe doubts that Lilith's defeat will last long. I suspect she will be back sooner rather than later.
She comes off as more resilient than any demon or angel I've throughout my time with the series.
For all the evil Lilith has done, she does have a point about it all. Siding with Mephisto was a foolish idea; he's the master of the long game. And humanity does need a shepherd to lead them against the Eternal Conflict.
Who knows, maybe the Wanderer will wise up to that and finally take the difficult path of leading humanity to fight against Heaven and Hell, but at humanity's terms.
@@Punishthefalse Yeah, the "alliance" with Mephisto was barely convenient.
I'm guessing we'll end up restricting Lilith at some point to stop him. It's not beyond possibility anyway.
Why Did We stop the one thing that wanted to stop it all ? I wish we could choose ingame. But all in all the game is great 👍🏼
The road to hell is paved at the start with good intentions as they say…
Man, Elias should ran that plan past a couple if his bros before setting it in motion.
Mathael: Kill everyone to end the eternal war.
Well... he wasn't wrong.
Lost it with the Mike Tyson face 😂😂
Elias hid behind a noble intent, but it was a selfish need for power and station that made his actions truly heinous. Evil for even a noble purpose is still evil.
Given how many times Lilith tempted people into corruption with promises of fulfilling their desires, I always assumed that Elias was no different. Elias wasn't Lilith's partner, he was her stooge. She claimed that she had a plan to defend Sanctuary, but really she just wanted Mephisto's power to be able to rule unopposed. Elias fell for her trick, and got in too deep to admit that he was being played.
She wanted mankind to be free to make the choice they wanted.
The humans chose to kill the priest, as he had shamed them for so long for what he called "sins".
You are just thinking demons = bad in this case. If you had read about Lilith before the story of D4, you would’ve realized that she truly loved her children.
The whole moral of the story of the Diablo series as a whole: The cycle repeats itself, regardless who steps in center stage..
Killing Lilith was like killing our great great great grandmother
awesome vid
Always excited when you upload a new video. You're like luetin09 but for diablo. Deep lore and captivating narration that is both engaging but also relaxing
That's very kind of you to say. I aspire to those types of content creators.
Loved it!
I enjoyed this! Thanks..
Unless u worded it wrong the price of the answer of the tree of whispers isn’t fatal
It’s only after u die u gotta give ur head according to what you said in the video
So why is it fatal?
So they keep saying it’s a prophecy but if you hear it it’s sounds more like the history of Lilith and Anarus that leads to them making humans.
What I want to know, is why Deckard Cain wielding a polearm now? Is this a prequel?
That wasn't Deckard. Meshiff grew old and kept calling that dude the wrong name, because he obviously looks a lot like Deckard. This story takes place a very long time after the previous Diablo entries, so Deckard is most likely deceased due to old age, if not something worse.
@@Dandoskyballer Eeuhm Deckard died in Diablo 3.
Hahahahaha
When will they ever learn? This had also happened to Nilathak. And As the Amazons said: "Conspiring with a demon is a tragic mistake."
I find Lilith to be far more fun and cool than any of the prime evils, so I do like what Elias did. But I don't think anything he did after that was redeeming for how much of hell he brought to Sanctuary. Save the world from the forces of hell by making humans into monsters and no real plan for dialing that back and perhaps even challenge Lilith afterwards. With that said, I did and still do, wish we could joined Lilith.
I do not doubt Elias thought he was helping humanity but with the doors of heaven closed humanity needs to find out how to permanently close hell. Not side with and empower demons. There wouldn't be a Diablo game if that ever happened successfully, however. Religious persecution irl is a huge no-no but if they could just erase the Triune would probably weaken the demons enough for someone to do it. Humanity is as capable of great evil as it is great good and is definitely worth protecting. But not by demons.
Which fantasy world would you like to live? Sanctuary, Arda, or Westeros?
Elias looks like he should have been in hellraiser
He does look a bit like a cenobite
My thoughts was the same lol
He looks like MK's Quan Chi.
feels wierd that imperius, tyreal and the high heavens stood by and did absolutely nothing while lillith, inarius and mephisto were playing merry hell with sanctuary. I hope the first D4 expansion explains that like maybe heaven is in civil war between imperius and tyreal due to being out of balance without a full angerius council.
Nobody knew where Tyrael went. Lorath mentioned that Tyrael discovered something which he didn't tell the Horadrim about and urgently made his exit to...confront it or something?
We might know what happened to Tyrael in story DLCs, I guess.
6:50 A wild Tike Myson appears
Anyone else rewind 10 seconds to see the picture of Mike Thyson?
I just wanted to state, maybe Elies had a crush on Lilith. It was basically a Sarah Kerigen body double. Who wasn't in love with her.
Like falling in love with a praying mantis.
I wonder how long blizzard can play the "humanity is weak" card. I mean in D3 we had the nephalem the beeing of ancient power, the beeing so terrefying for heaven, hell and inarius so that he tuned the worldstone to supress them. In D2 the stone was destroyed. In D3 the nephalem returned. Rathma even unlocked the potenial of some humans to become nephalem. IMHO humanity should know by now either heaven nor hell is a good choice. they should find a way to unlock their potential what was given as their birthright and kick heaven in the butt and hell in the nuts.
Well...the Nephalem characters are basically outcasts whose deeds aren't known to anyone outside their immediate circle, with those outside who do know about their deeds doubting them.
elias is cool. voiced by Morgotts VA 😁
Elias was just another villain trying to justify his actions. Allying with Lilith was foolish. Lilith can claim all she wants to care about Sanctuary, fact is they stepped on a lot of people to get their objective. Did the city of Guulrahn have to be massacred just to protect Sanctuary? Elias also misread the prophecy/ had his own version of it(Much like Inarius). Its all fine and dandy to stand against demons and Hell but if you are sacrificing others just to get that job done, you are no savior. The villagers effected by Lilith went mad and crazy.
"Was it all worth it is a cowards answer" No it isn't, if anything its just a way to deflect and pretend you are the victim here. While I think being a head on the tree of whispers is a .....pretty morbid fate, he had little regard for who he had to step on to get his way of "protecting Sanctuary"
Lorath might of failed on being inactive(To be fair he comes off as a jaded bitter scholar then anything else) but he still had some principles left.
People really looked at the death and destruction he caused and said I want to join him.
anything has it costs, better lives in your home with cruel mother rather than pray with the force that gives 0 fck seeing you as disgust or getting stomp by burning fire entire world until nothing is left.
Lilith will get an illidan-esque redemption arc.
I think Elias is a fool as there was no ethical approach to save humanity. Elias ignored all his history because, whenever there's a direct threat to Sanctuary, the Nephalem will always come out and do the impossible to save Sanctuary. If a Nephalem goes bad, there's always another that will come out and stop it. There's always this great balance that protects Sanctuary without ever needing to side with evil. Elias truly did it for himself and was always fail. Humanity were just pawns to justify the means to his end.
Someone really have to put his foolish ambitions to rest, eh? Wink, wink? XD
I like to take walkies, Very enthusiastic walkies...
•Wolf Boi
The only one that can help Nyrelle is Inarious who by now should be trapped in hell once more. He may finally see that he himself was corrupted by Mephisto long before he returned to Sanctuary. However I dont think the Angiris Council will ever forgive him. It is clear that the primes power level surpass the angels Diablo fools Malthael into corruption Bael fools Tyrael. The Primes moves in the eternal conflict always seems to be one move ahead there is no reason to believe this would be an exception.
Good intensions do not necessarily make you a "good guy." Yes, Elias wanted to save humanity, but he was willing to do heinous things to achieve that goal. His final words also show how selfish he was in his pursuits, lamenting that he didn't deserve his end, that *he* deserved to be at Lilith's side when she stands victorious over the Eternal Conflict. Neither of them understood, you can't save humanity by sacrificing what makes us human.
I would so love having a quest path that lets you be evil and support Lilith and Elias... alas that will never happen.
Elias looks evil af
He is handsome
He simply needed to have gone about it differently.
Yes, he was wrong. He would’ve saved humanity by killing them all. Not one person that came into contact with him was made better.
His mission should’ve been summon Lilith and then gather the crystals of the world stone.
Or, gathering the crystals of the world stone into a weapon capable of PERMANENTLY banishing demons.
Hell and heaven has no love for humanity, the ones who did are now all dead, mankin is now truly alone against whatever's coming.
There is (was) my Necromancer with an Elixir of Bolts. Hell and heaven stand no chance against her minions and golem.
I dont know why I find him handsome and sexy. And his voice❤
Im crazy
you're not alone
@@steampunk3776 I am just sorry he died. There should be more about him and I would be more happy if he was a good character
@@Efilism90 I hope there will be a dlc with his participation, but something more interesting than just an echo
@@steampunk3776 Dont think so because I read in Diablo wiki his head was taken by tree of whispers where " it stayed there for eternity".
They made him look amazing, he was smart and had plans yet they made him dead. But hope he will return somehow.
@@Efilism90 maybe his head will give quests in the future :)
You think act 10 is the end?
Act 10 is the tutorial for the beginning.
I want Lilith to return.
the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
What's your next video title: Good guy Adolf?
Don’t get it twisted Elias is a bad guy. He is the definition of winning no matter how many bodies pile up. Elias is evil. He is a man who is more evil than some literal demons. His later rationale is just him being emo and picking the easiest path.
People trying to justify his actions is wild.