Hi! Another interesting episode this one, full of tension I'd say (at least for me), since we are very near to the end (sadly). I love your comment on the Rogers/Madi scene. That scene is a masterpiece. Their talk and Eleonor knitting in the background and stopping right when Madi accuses Rogers...oh my god. This show makes a great representation of the concept of "ghost" as memory and also self-analysis I'd say, really. And you're right, I actually never thought about the fact that she was not learning to knit, she could barely stand embroidery...yeah probably it was another way to underline what was the perception Rogers had of her, I find your interpretation very interesting. Thank you for letting me notice that, btw! It's also kinda creepy this ticking in the background (literally in the dark as any "intimate" thing in this show) while we see Rogers in such a devastated state. I mean, of course we hate him for reasons (very valid ones) but he's still a fascinating character to me, I'd have a lot to say about him. He is like...the canonical villain and it's also interesting to look at his character in a comparison with other ones like Flint or Thomas...but that's not the right place to do that, I promise I won't get distracted lol What I meant to say is that the production really did a great work with him here, also physically. He really LOOKS haunted since Eleanor's death, and I especially perceived it in this episode. So this adds weight to this beautiful scene. And Madi is just Madi. My perfect daughter of the revolution. She deserved way more than a round of applause here, she gets a standing ovation from me everytime I watch this scene. There are no furthest things than Madi and Rogers so of course he could not understand her in the slightest. Loved the bit about the library. Rogers is DEFINITELY on the wrong side of it. Leave place to Don Quixote sir! lol And you're right, it's so intriguing and...tragic, at least for me, to compare how Madi behaves in front of the very possibility of her death and how Silver reacts to it instead. Is VERY foreshadowing (maybe you already said that) but probably everything is in these last episodes, knowing how things are going to end. I'm really curious about you're analysis of the last one because last time I saw it I sort of individuated some specific moments when I believe changes happens (especially regarding Silver and his decisions) and I'm curious to see if you saw that too. Anyway, back to this one. I think this is probably the episode that made me get the most into the Silver/Flint dynamics. In the sense that I've never really been a supporter of their relationship (should I call it friendship? In a way I probably have to) even before knowing about Silver's last intentions. I've just never really liked him and I've always deemed him quite dangerous for Flint, especially if let come so close to him. Anyway, my personal opinion about it does not mean that I do not like the way their relationship was constructed in the show. I can understand the way they made their characters...intertwine, in a way, and here, among the flashbacks and the way they kept ruining up each other's plans in the present, I think it is made particularly explicit. And this kind of unavoidable contrast and codependency between them definitely has its addicting sides. And I love shows which explains things using flashbacks and parallelism, so (as in ouat first season. If I remember correctly you are a oncer too, right?). I can understand your disappointment, I was expecting some notions about Silver's past too first time I saw this episode. I often tried to make an idea about it but I couldn't come up with anything relevant really. But actually, I think the point the creators wanted to make is that his past it's not relevant to his character's outcome. Not because his past is not revelant itself, it could have been even very traumatic as you said, but because he is not someone who lives considering his past, he just sees his present and sometimes his future. At least this is how I see him. It was relevant for us to know Flint's background because his personal history is reflected in everything he does, he is very defined by it, and so often what he does is understandable only by considering that past, but I think this does not apply for Silver. He is what he gets to be right in the moment, and he fights to hold what he has in the moment. I've made a longer thought about the importance of this scene to understand Silver's personality and choices elsewhere, but the general point is that I kinda see Flint, Silver and Madi as respectively the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future lol. Like, Flint is all about "remember who you were", Silver is all about "care about who you are" and Madi is all about "fear what might become of you". If this makes any sense. I'm getting distracted again, I know, but I hope that gave the general idea lol This said, I agree, this reluctance from Silver must have let Flint down pretty bad. Flint definitely deserves the MVP here. He was in his full desperate war-machine mode and I loved that. A lot of great fight scenes, I actually didn't expect him to beat Hands too, but...congrats, man! Finally my time to shut up, yeah! 😂 Just wanted to say thank you for this interesting ep and for the chance to discuss about it. Hope I've not bored you with my long nonsense. See you soon!
Yeah that Madi and WR scene is brilliant, so many layers, even spending 5ish minutes on it, still so much I could of gone into more detail on. Yeah the sound design is outstanding, the timings of the needles perfect, hence why I did wonder if it was the reason they gave Eleanor knitting not embroidery. But I def think it's underlining the fact he's remembered her (pretty unenthusiastic) hobby wrong, happy accident or not. Indeed, the published author in the room and yet still he's not close to being on par with Madi's intellect, passion and vision. But indeed I agree, while I dislike him (a lot once 4x3 comes around) WR is such a interesting/great character. He does seem like a Thomas sort of character when he first comes in, and seems very reasonable but then I think the mask starts to slip when there's still resistance and he doesn't understand why people aren't falling at his feet. Which gives him the excuse to let that dark side out, but add the complication of Eleanor (who in his way he does love) and we get a far more complex character. Yeah Flint and Silver are interesting, I'll keep it short here as only be repeating myself in that final episode, I remember loving and routing for them as a duo that first watch without hindsight but yeah it's flawed for sure. The flashback scenes are interesting, while I understand Silver not wanting to share it, whether traumatic or just not relevant. whatever the reason, I do feel bad for Flint. For all they've been through I think he owed him something. But I think for a audience it ultimately works well with that ambiguous ending to keep Silvers past a mystery. Yes love some good flashbacks and parallels as well (that first season of OUAT is so well done! Some brilliant twists and turns.) I actually would of loved more flashbacks from other characters outside of Flint (but then the show might not of become what it did as they are done so perfect in his case.) And love that Christmas Carol ghost theory ha ha, that makes a lot of sense. Absolutely not bored me at all , enjoy reading as always. Slowly beginning to make my notes for that finale so I'm looking forward to comparing thoughts. Thanks again so much for watching and taking the time out to comment. 🙂🖤 🏴☠
@@ttg-benThat's exactly was I was thinking! Rogers wears a MASK in the beginning, the mask of the civilized man, the kind politician, but that mask soon enough starts to slip off. It's like, he doesn't WANT to be mean, you know, but people keep disrespecting him so he just have to 🤷🏻 (this is what he tells himself at least). And as I was saying, as the episodes go by you see him becoming the man/monster behind the mask more and more also aesthetically. Yeah when he is presented the association with Thomas is unavoidable I think, for a couple of reasons, but the main and fundamental difference between them, at least for me, is that Thomas really believed in the meaning of the pardons, in the chance of redemption for the pirates, while Rogers was just searching for the easiest way to conqueer Nassau and that way were the pardons in that moment. But once again, we are on the pirates side and it's ok, but actually Rogers was kinda doing his job even if he was not really great at it and sometimes he exaggerated a bit. I think that most of the common men back then (not the enlightened one like Thomas I mean) would have reacted as he did if put in the same situation. And yes, he really loved her in his own way, as she did, in her own way, they were just too different to work well as a couple I guess.
@@eleonoraparker6367 Ha you just echoed my sentiments I've made throughout this season in regards to WR. Especially when comparing him to Thomas (or with civilisation he's so convinced he's the voice off - not understanding his own hypocrisies) Thinking back to OUAT , chances are I've already mentioned it, but did a fun top 100 episode countdown on this channel just over a year back, it's a bit of time commitment at just under couple of hours lol but as you're a fellow fan thought I'd mention in case it appeals! 🙂
Hi! Another interesting episode this one, full of tension I'd say (at least for me), since we are very near to the end (sadly).
I love your comment on the Rogers/Madi scene. That scene is a masterpiece. Their talk and Eleonor knitting in the background and stopping right when Madi accuses Rogers...oh my god. This show makes a great representation of the concept of "ghost" as memory and also self-analysis I'd say, really.
And you're right, I actually never thought about the fact that she was not learning to knit, she could barely stand embroidery...yeah probably it was another way to underline what was the perception Rogers had of her, I find your interpretation very interesting. Thank you for letting me notice that, btw!
It's also kinda creepy this ticking in the background (literally in the dark as any "intimate" thing in this show) while we see Rogers in such a devastated state. I mean, of course we hate him for reasons (very valid ones) but he's still a fascinating character to me, I'd have a lot to say about him. He is like...the canonical villain and it's also interesting to look at his character in a comparison with other ones like Flint or Thomas...but that's not the right place to do that, I promise I won't get distracted lol
What I meant to say is that the production really did a great work with him here, also physically. He really LOOKS haunted since Eleanor's death, and I especially perceived it in this episode. So this adds weight to this beautiful scene.
And Madi is just Madi. My perfect daughter of the revolution. She deserved way more than a round of applause here, she gets a standing ovation from me everytime I watch this scene.
There are no furthest things than Madi and Rogers so of course he could not understand her in the slightest. Loved the bit about the library. Rogers is DEFINITELY on the wrong side of it. Leave place to Don Quixote sir! lol
And you're right, it's so intriguing and...tragic, at least for me, to compare how Madi behaves in front of the very possibility of her death and how Silver reacts to it instead. Is VERY foreshadowing (maybe you already said that) but probably everything is in these last episodes, knowing how things are going to end.
I'm really curious about you're analysis of the last one because last time I saw it I sort of individuated some specific moments when I believe changes happens (especially regarding Silver and his decisions) and I'm curious to see if you saw that too.
Anyway, back to this one.
I think this is probably the episode that made me get the most into the Silver/Flint dynamics. In the sense that I've never really been a supporter of their relationship (should I call it friendship? In a way I probably have to) even before knowing about Silver's last intentions. I've just never really liked him and I've always deemed him quite dangerous for Flint, especially if let come so close to him. Anyway, my personal opinion about it does not mean that I do not like the way their relationship was constructed in the show. I can understand the way they made their characters...intertwine, in a way, and here, among the flashbacks and the way they kept ruining up each other's plans in the present, I think it is made particularly explicit. And this kind of unavoidable contrast and codependency between them definitely has its addicting sides.
And I love shows which explains things using flashbacks and parallelism, so (as in ouat first season. If I remember correctly you are a oncer too, right?).
I can understand your disappointment, I was expecting some notions about Silver's past too first time I saw this episode. I often tried to make an idea about it but I couldn't come up with anything relevant really. But actually, I think the point the creators wanted to make is that his past it's not relevant to his character's outcome. Not because his past is not revelant itself, it could have been even very traumatic as you said, but because he is not someone who lives considering his past, he just sees his present and sometimes his future. At least this is how I see him.
It was relevant for us to know Flint's background because his personal history is reflected in everything he does, he is very defined by it, and so often what he does is understandable only by considering that past, but I think this does not apply for Silver. He is what he gets to be right in the moment, and he fights to hold what he has in the moment.
I've made a longer thought about the importance of this scene to understand Silver's personality and choices elsewhere, but the general point is that I kinda see Flint, Silver and Madi as respectively the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future lol.
Like, Flint is all about "remember who you were", Silver is all about "care about who you are" and Madi is all about "fear what might become of you". If this makes any sense. I'm getting distracted again, I know, but I hope that gave the general idea lol
This said, I agree, this reluctance from Silver must have let Flint down pretty bad.
Flint definitely deserves the MVP here. He was in his full desperate war-machine mode and I loved that. A lot of great fight scenes, I actually didn't expect him to beat Hands too, but...congrats, man!
Finally my time to shut up, yeah! 😂
Just wanted to say thank you for this interesting ep and for the chance to discuss about it. Hope I've not bored you with my long nonsense.
See you soon!
Yeah that Madi and WR scene is brilliant, so many layers, even spending 5ish minutes on it, still so much I could of gone into more detail on. Yeah the sound design is outstanding, the timings of the needles perfect, hence why I did wonder if it was the reason they gave Eleanor knitting not embroidery. But I def think it's underlining the fact he's remembered her (pretty unenthusiastic) hobby wrong, happy accident or not.
Indeed, the published author in the room and yet still he's not close to being on par with Madi's intellect, passion and vision.
But indeed I agree, while I dislike him (a lot once 4x3 comes around) WR is such a interesting/great character. He does seem like a Thomas sort of character when he first comes in, and seems very reasonable but then I think the mask starts to slip when there's still resistance and he doesn't understand why people aren't falling at his feet. Which gives him the excuse to let that dark side out, but add the complication of Eleanor (who in his way he does love) and we get a far more complex character.
Yeah Flint and Silver are interesting, I'll keep it short here as only be repeating myself in that final episode, I remember loving and routing for them as a duo that first watch without hindsight but yeah it's flawed for sure.
The flashback scenes are interesting, while I understand Silver not wanting to share it, whether traumatic or just not relevant. whatever the reason, I do feel bad for Flint. For all they've been through I think he owed him something. But I think for a audience it ultimately works well with that ambiguous ending to keep Silvers past a mystery.
Yes love some good flashbacks and parallels as well (that first season of OUAT is so well done! Some brilliant twists and turns.) I actually would of loved more flashbacks from other characters outside of Flint (but then the show might not of become what it did as they are done so perfect in his case.)
And love that Christmas Carol ghost theory ha ha, that makes a lot of sense.
Absolutely not bored me at all , enjoy reading as always. Slowly beginning to make my notes for that finale so I'm looking forward to comparing thoughts.
Thanks again so much for watching and taking the time out to comment. 🙂🖤
🏴☠
@@ttg-benThat's exactly was I was thinking! Rogers wears a MASK in the beginning, the mask of the civilized man, the kind politician, but that mask soon enough starts to slip off. It's like, he doesn't WANT to be mean, you know, but people keep disrespecting him so he just have to 🤷🏻 (this is what he tells himself at least). And as I was saying, as the episodes go by you see him becoming the man/monster behind the mask more and more also aesthetically.
Yeah when he is presented the association with Thomas is unavoidable I think, for a couple of reasons, but the main and fundamental difference between them, at least for me, is that Thomas really believed in the meaning of the pardons, in the chance of redemption for the pirates, while Rogers was just searching for the easiest way to conqueer Nassau and that way were the pardons in that moment.
But once again, we are on the pirates side and it's ok, but actually Rogers was kinda doing his job even if he was not really great at it and sometimes he exaggerated a bit. I think that most of the common men back then (not the enlightened one like Thomas I mean) would have reacted as he did if put in the same situation.
And yes, he really loved her in his own way, as she did, in her own way, they were just too different to work well as a couple I guess.
@@eleonoraparker6367 Ha you just echoed my sentiments I've made throughout this season in regards to WR. Especially when comparing him to Thomas (or with civilisation he's so convinced he's the voice off - not understanding his own hypocrisies)
Thinking back to OUAT , chances are I've already mentioned it, but did a fun top 100 episode countdown on this channel just over a year back, it's a bit of time commitment at just under couple of hours lol but as you're a fellow fan thought I'd mention in case it appeals! 🙂
Wait... Black Sails is still filming?
No unfortunatly not , I've just been having fun deep diving into the series.