Chris the rest of the match starts with David Howard dumping to mike before buddy dumped this was the first and last time a Vegas casino took action on the pro players. They're lucky nobody got killed
This debacle keeps coming up in discussion. This time, it's because of SVB's interview on 60 Minutes. It's good to see that the sport still has a chance to get back on track in the mainstream. I have high hopes for Matchroom Pool and their efforts to bring enough prize money back into the game. The most telling part of Buddy's playing is how often he sent the cue ball toward a pocket. He's one of the best position players the game has ever known. This was shameful.
I heard that Mike Lebron was in on this as well and that Earl was asked to play but refused to throw matches. The eight players placed 6500 buck bets on Mike at 20-1 and refunded each man 6500 from the 50K winnings.....ie. a cool 130K profit per man....afterwards some were asked not to return to Vegas...anyone know who? The 8 included Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Sigel, Allen Hopkins, David Howard, and Kim Davenport, as well as Hall and Lebron.
Chuck Murray Earl was smart not to play because he would’ve been associated with one of the low moments of the game had he dumped and he might’ve found in one of the Vegas desert holes had he played and beat Lebron and in the process lost a lot of money for the others.
No, not possible. The biggest problem with this theory is each man having 6500 beforehand to put up with the book. Pool players are all broke, even the elite. No way in hell they had 6500 each man.
@@nickp4793would have been the stakehorses who back them and split with them, as many pros already have trustworthy stakehorses or can easily find . But the amount was likely lower if no horses involved
No even efren, got beat by Buddy for real money he said it in one of his videos and it was substantiated by numerous other people and Earl got hammered as well but he was just so ruthless money on the line he really turned it up a notch that no one could match even Dennis the Filipino money player can't match buddy in a short race for the money
@@richardcerritelli9657 my moms best friend used to run with buddy from the stories I've heard I believe it. I played buddy back in 92 I asked him are you ever out of stroke? He looked at me and said I've been in stroke my whole life lol. Then he told me you have real talent but I'll also tell you this is a 24-7 job. He said I have I believe he told me 7 kids and I've raised them on a pool cue and don't know any of them! That was his number 1 regret.
Buddy is one of my Idols growing up a lot of people don't realize how good he really was because all his action was in the back room when he played in tournaments he was good but no one can beat him in the back room I know for a fact to me he was the best 9-ball player ever Harold worse they say was but he didn't play long buddy hall was the man even today Dennis couldn't match him for money in the back room
@@we5xz-1902 And all it cost them was millions and millions of dollars in sponsorship and Vegas-related money for the next 25 years of the sport's future!
This is why Earl can't get Camel cigarettes or any other big name sponsorship back in pool 🤣. And they always quick to say Earl cheats , no Efren cheats and is on record for doing the same money tactics in the Philippines and America under Caesar Morales and Efren. And he also is a cruel animal torturer, he fights chickens to the death... Efren is a real monster
Just by the sound of the balls , it looks like the equipment back in those days wase a loot tough to play on . I might be wrong ? What you guys think ??
@@choward874 by "tougher" I figured he meant harder because of inconsistencies. Such as quality and manufacturing tolerances between tables and even each pocket/rail/balls/etc. It seems to me most tables today are consistent... every diamond is gonna pretty much play exactly the same for example. Back then, it seems it'd take longer to get the feel of each table and how it plays. It seems more like golf or even baseball where each course/field is different, compared to football or basketball where each is always the exact same length/distances/etc. But I was 1 year old in 1991 haha. So I have no idea. I grew up playing on Diamonds, and maybe occasional Gold Crown with fast Simonis cloth. What do you think from this consistency standpoint?
If what they did was true, then it was the reason why they couldn't get good sponsors. Look at golf, if you're in 50th to 70th place you'll receive around 15k to 35K at least.
Strange thing is how great a player buddy hall was he's something like efren buddy was so good for money that if he lost a game you would suspect Foul Play
I'm not 100% sure this was a dump. You have to look at subtle leaves as well, like Hall left himself perfect on the 8-9 combo. All he has to do is overdraw the 7 a skosh and the combo is 10x harder and nobody thinks anything of th3 miss. Instead he leaves himself perfect and blows the shot. Anyway, in baseball you can never assume a DP and in pool you can never assume a combo. He flirted with a scratch way too many times though so who can say?
it's more than the combo- he missed one of the easiest 8 balls I've ever seen a pro miss in the previous rack and was attempting to scratch on at least 2 shots
Not really sad, as a professional poker player I feel bad for these guys. Fixing bets is not okay, but there is no money in this sport and winner take all tournaments make it even worse.
Are you fucking serious? The issue here isn't like a poker tournament where five guys and a final table can make a deal for what's left in the prize pool. Obviously they can make a verbal declaration of what they want to do and the house and the tournament director will abide by the players wishes because it's their money. That's not what happened here because even though a verbal declaration would obviously not be cool because it's supposed to be a legit and competitive thing. Why in the fuck is it that you seem to overlook the fact that there wasn't a purposeful dump going on here amongst multiple conspirators. They went and bet on Mike at 20 to 1..... That's not a fix, that in essence is grand larceny, it's aggravated robbery, it's malfeasance, it's conspiracy, it's racketeering, it's a federal RICO case or should be. Get it right mutton head
Yeah a professional poker player in other words you're a bum Hunter right? Phil ivy is a poker player, not you. How do I know? Isn't it obvious enough where you can't even see an obvious angle going on here? You're barely fourth level. 5th would be a waste of time because in order for that next higher level to work the other player has got to be just as competent except one step behind sometimes. In other words a better player using fifth level thinking against you is just going to own himself but you're too stupid to realize it and you think you're beating him.
@@unclequack5445 casual fans could tell they were missing shots on purpose, you don't think Mike LeBron a pro pool player wouldn't notice??? You're an idiot
@@raymondphillips7107 I never claimed he was none the wise he was doing some good acting anyway, you talk brave over a keyboard with all the insults I guarantee your not as tough as you think.
So the story is- Buddy Hall dumped to get the money. from Las Vegas. One wager is going to end everything.The Las Vegas sports book doesent work like that.and if the outcome is questionable.they dont pay out.look at Phil Ivey. The casinos are in the business of making money.not losing money. The line is setup so that the casino makes the profit.
There is no way buddy would lose to Mike LeBron if it was legit with a real money game he perhaps was the best pool player ever Earl and Efren would lose to Buddy in the back room for real money Mike LeBron was a joke
@@richardcerritelli9657 The story is that his life was threatened. also if you play on the Pro Billiard Tour you are a professional. Mike Lebron could play for real.regardless i agree about 75 percent of the time Buddy would win in a match. Jose Parica Amang took the sign down above the table. Buddy did not beat every player. Wade Crane beat Buddy quite a few times.
@@synthiabakers1753 I don't go back that far but you sure buddy wasn't dumping against Wade crane cuz I can't imagine him better than efren it's before my time but they were saying that in his prime no one can beat him for money. Straight up anyway without giving weight.
@@richardcerritelli9657 Wade Crane is/was just as good as Buddy Hall at running racks.overall ability position play stategy durability in the long run i dont know. In Louisiana the owners of the pool room had a sign above the table stating that Buddy would give the eight to anybody.Jose Paricia took the sign down. The real story is that whatever happened is what happened.
@@synthiabakers1753 it's too bad we didn't have TH-cam Back Then to see how good buddy hall really was but I will tell you Efren was amazing and he drilled efren in the back room when there's no cameras only players and money I know crane must have been good but I doubt he would be able to beat buddy in the back room gambling for the real money in fact he killed Earl Strickland in his prime Jim rempe and Mike Siegel I don't know if you're aware of this but all the best players in the world there was a word they use are you ready for Buddy Hall in a real match in the back room.
Phaa , in case you don't know, the story goes that they all dumped their matches on purpose so Mike LeBron would win . This was heavily bet in Vegas and Mike LeBron was the worst odds at 20 - 1 and all the players that dumped bet on him through 3rd parties and won thousands ! Look how hard buddy hall was trying to miss on purpose ..sickening! That was the first and last time Vegas let those guys do that
Now I clearly see why the sport took a nose dive in the 90s and lost sponsorship
Chris the rest of the match starts with David Howard dumping to mike before buddy dumped this was the first and last time a Vegas casino took action on the pro players. They're lucky nobody got killed
Mike looks like a guy with an ulcer all match
And this is why pool has no real men’s tour
This debacle keeps coming up in discussion. This time, it's because of SVB's interview on 60 Minutes. It's good to see that the sport still has a chance to get back on track in the mainstream. I have high hopes for Matchroom Pool and their efforts to bring enough prize money back into the game. The most telling part of Buddy's playing is how often he sent the cue ball toward a pocket. He's one of the best position players the game has ever known. This was shameful.
And the academy award goes to.........SMFH!
I heard that Mike Lebron was in on this as well and that Earl was asked to play but refused to throw matches. The eight players placed 6500 buck bets on Mike at 20-1 and refunded each man 6500 from the 50K winnings.....ie. a cool 130K profit per man....afterwards some were asked not to return to Vegas...anyone know who? The 8 included Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Sigel, Allen Hopkins, David Howard, and Kim Davenport, as well as Hall and Lebron.
Chuck Murray Earl was smart not to play because he would’ve been associated with one of the low moments of the game had he dumped and he might’ve found in one of the Vegas desert holes had he played and beat Lebron and in the process lost a lot of money for the others.
No, not possible. The biggest problem with this theory is each man having 6500 beforehand to put up with the book. Pool players are all broke, even the elite. No way in hell they had 6500 each man.
@@nickp4793would have been the stakehorses who back them and split with them, as many pros already have trustworthy stakehorses or can easily find . But the amount was likely lower if no horses involved
I saw this live and remember thinking no way buddy just missed that shot but years later I learned why buddy made a fortune off of missing that shot
There is no way in hell Mike LeBron would beat buddy hall for the money. Nobody beats buddy for the nuts
@@richardcerritelli9657very few did back in his prime. Maybe Strickland and effren.
No even efren, got beat by Buddy for real money he said it in one of his videos and it was substantiated by numerous other people and Earl got hammered as well but he was just so ruthless money on the line he really turned it up a notch that no one could match even Dennis the Filipino money player can't match buddy in a short race for the money
@@richardcerritelli9657 my moms best friend used to run with buddy from the stories I've heard I believe it. I played buddy back in 92 I asked him are you ever out of stroke? He looked at me and said I've been in stroke my whole life lol. Then he told me you have real talent but I'll also tell you this is a 24-7 job. He said I have I believe he told me 7 kids and I've raised them on a pool cue and don't know any of them! That was his number 1 regret.
Buddy is one of my Idols growing up a lot of people don't realize how good he really was because all his action was in the back room when he played in tournaments he was good but no one can beat him in the back room I know for a fact to me he was the best 9-ball player ever Harold worse they say was but he didn't play long buddy hall was the man even today Dennis couldn't match him for money in the back room
‘He came in at 20/1, there’s no way of knowing how much was bet on him’ oh... we know now though
Every one was in on it
Chris, Buddy let him get there.
No way buddy hall would miss that combination if he were trying.
@@we5xz-1902 And all it cost them was millions and millions of dollars in sponsorship and Vegas-related money for the next 25 years of the sport's future!
@@cakins1986 Penny wise, dollar foolish! :-(
And pool players wonder why they are poor
Earl is many things, but he has respect for keeping things legal and legit. He's nuttier than Chinese chicken salad, but he's not a cheat.
This is why Earl can't get Camel cigarettes or any other big name sponsorship back in pool 🤣. And they always quick to say Earl cheats , no Efren cheats and is on record for doing the same money tactics in the Philippines and America under Caesar Morales and Efren. And he also is a cruel animal torturer, he fights chickens to the death... Efren is a real monster
Wow they should be ashamed of themselves
buddy-lebron - the black sox of pool
It was all 8 players and the Referee that planned this.
Looks like one of our league games. But of course different kind of pressure haha
The tournament that destroyed sports betting in pool.
And the academy award goes to.........
Could they have possibly have made it any more obvious?
I have all finals of this tournament from 1991 - 2016
you should post them on TH-cam- I'm sure people would like to watch them
@@charlesthun2619 I have them on VHS Tapes... It's complicated too transfer them..ESPN can upload easy
Just by the sound of the balls , it looks like the equipment back in those days wase a loot tough to play on . I might be wrong ? What you guys think ??
you're right.
Oh diamond's are way tougher to play on these days. Faster felt rails are taller. Much tougher game today.
@@choward874 by "tougher" I figured he meant harder because of inconsistencies. Such as quality and manufacturing tolerances between tables and even each pocket/rail/balls/etc. It seems to me most tables today are consistent... every diamond is gonna pretty much play exactly the same for example. Back then, it seems it'd take longer to get the feel of each table and how it plays. It seems more like golf or even baseball where each course/field is different, compared to football or basketball where each is always the exact same length/distances/etc.
But I was 1 year old in 1991 haha. So I have no idea. I grew up playing on Diamonds, and maybe occasional Gold Crown with fast Simonis cloth. What do you think from this consistency standpoint?
The pockets were buckets and the cloth was slow. Tables and players now are much better.
Mike couldn't beat Buddy Hall ina race to 9 if his life depended on it
Shake your opponent's hand first. Then celebrate.
The dump was on that for sure
He brought Efren to New Jersey in the 80s.
Buddy sure was off,usually he shoots pretty straight
are we sure this is not an APA match?..lmao
I've seen APA players dump better than that.
This is why Earl can't get camel or any other sponsorship back in pool 🤣
Whitle football online beting makes milions by doing The same thing
There is no way in hell Mike LeBron would ever beat buddy hall in a legitimate match.
If what they did was true, then it was the reason why they couldn't get good sponsors. Look at golf, if you're in 50th to 70th place you'll receive around 15k to 35K at least.
i dont know why buddy even got to 8 games to make it hard to dump on the hill..lol..
Because LeBron played so bad he kept having to win games he tried to hand LeBron! 😂 Haha
What would have happened if Lebron hung up the 9-ball in the pocket on the very last game?
And everybody got paid...
What a joke lost a lot of respect for buddy hall
Strange thing is how great a player buddy hall was he's something like efren buddy was so good for money that if he lost a game you would suspect Foul Play
I wonder if his wife knew.
That finish looked fishy to me
lol cut up move!
i wish i could see all this match... i dont see how mike even got to 8 games
Mike was a pretty good player; seriously.
Good one
I'm not 100% sure this was a dump. You have to look at subtle leaves as well, like Hall left himself perfect on the 8-9 combo. All he has to do is overdraw the 7 a skosh and the combo is 10x harder and nobody thinks anything of th3 miss. Instead he leaves himself perfect and blows the shot. Anyway, in baseball you can never assume a DP and in pool you can never assume a combo. He flirted with a scratch way too many times though so who can say?
it's more than the combo- he missed one of the easiest 8 balls I've ever seen a pro miss in the previous rack and was attempting to scratch on at least 2 shots
low point in the games history, very sad.
Not really sad, as a professional poker player I feel bad for these guys. Fixing bets is not okay, but there is no money in this sport and winner take all tournaments make it even worse.
Are you fucking serious? The issue here isn't like a poker tournament where five guys and a final table can make a deal for what's left in the prize pool. Obviously they can make a verbal declaration of what they want to do and the house and the tournament director will abide by the players wishes because it's their money.
That's not what happened here because even though a verbal declaration would obviously not be cool because it's supposed to be a legit and competitive thing.
Why in the fuck is it that you seem to overlook the fact that there wasn't a purposeful dump going on here amongst multiple conspirators. They went and bet on Mike at 20 to 1..... That's not a fix, that in essence is grand larceny, it's aggravated robbery, it's malfeasance, it's conspiracy, it's racketeering, it's a federal RICO case or should be.
Get it right mutton head
Yeah a professional poker player in other words you're a bum Hunter right?
Phil ivy is a poker player, not you.
How do I know? Isn't it obvious enough where you can't even see an obvious angle going on here?
You're barely fourth level. 5th would be a waste of time because in order for that next higher level to work the other player has got to be just as competent except one step behind sometimes.
In other words a better player using fifth level thinking against you is just going to own himself but you're too stupid to realize it and you think you're beating him.
Its easy to dump its hard to win
Poor Sap thinks he won when everyone side bet him at 20.1 and all dumped to him.
He was in on the fix, dumbass
@@raymondphillips7107 Hey Oh yeah? Not what I heard, asswype.
@@unclequack5445 casual fans could tell they were missing shots on purpose, you don't think Mike LeBron a pro pool player wouldn't notice??? You're an idiot
@@raymondphillips7107 I never claimed he was none the wise he was doing some good acting anyway, you talk brave over a keyboard with all the insults I guarantee your not as tough as you think.
@@unclequack5445 not being tough, son. Just telling you what's what.
People wonder why pool is what it is l think its funny
So the story is- Buddy Hall dumped to get the money. from Las Vegas. One wager is going to end everything.The Las Vegas sports book doesent work like that.and if the outcome is questionable.they dont pay out.look at Phil Ivey. The casinos are in the business of making money.not losing money. The line is setup so that the casino makes the profit.
There is no way buddy would lose to Mike LeBron if it was legit with a real money game he perhaps was the best pool player ever Earl and Efren would lose to Buddy in the back room for real money Mike LeBron was a joke
@@richardcerritelli9657 The story is that his life was threatened. also if you play on the Pro Billiard Tour you are a professional. Mike Lebron could play for real.regardless i agree about 75 percent of the time Buddy would win in a match. Jose Parica Amang took the sign down above the table. Buddy did not beat every player. Wade Crane beat Buddy quite a few times.
@@synthiabakers1753 I don't go back that far but you sure buddy wasn't dumping against Wade crane cuz I can't imagine him better than efren it's before my time but they were saying that in his prime no one can beat him for money. Straight up anyway without giving weight.
@@richardcerritelli9657 Wade Crane is/was just as good as Buddy Hall at running racks.overall ability position play stategy durability in the long run i dont know. In Louisiana the owners of the pool room had a sign above the table stating that Buddy would give the eight to anybody.Jose Paricia took the sign down. The real story is that whatever happened is what happened.
@@synthiabakers1753 it's too bad we didn't have TH-cam Back Then to see how good buddy hall really was but I will tell you Efren was amazing and he drilled efren in the back room when there's no cameras only players and money I know crane must have been good but I doubt he would be able to beat buddy in the back room gambling for the real money in fact he killed Earl Strickland in his prime Jim rempe and Mike Siegel I don't know if you're aware of this but all the best players in the world there was a word they use are you ready for Buddy Hall in a real match in the back room.
you call this pros ??? buddy has a fargo of 579 and Mike Lebron 484 Those really play for 50000 USD haha
Phaa , in case you don't know, the story goes that they all dumped their matches on purpose so Mike LeBron would win . This was heavily bet in Vegas and Mike LeBron was the worst odds at 20 - 1 and all the players that dumped bet on him through 3rd parties and won thousands ! Look how hard buddy hall was trying to miss on purpose ..sickening! That was the first and last time Vegas let those guys do that
I don't know if you're aware of it but this match was fixed buddy hall through the match I don't know if they got in trouble for it or what he dumped.
Beep, beep, beep, beep......
Disgusting.
They will ALL dump