The Most Profound Ending in Horror Film History?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- I tried to think about what horror film had the greatest ending, but quickly realized how impossible it would be to make anything approximating an objective declaration. Then I narrowed it down to which ending was the most "profound" (given that that is this channel's main focus). Took me a little bit longer to figure this one out... but when I remembered a certain film, I realized there was no other possible option.
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makes you a martyr for making non profit videos, does it not?
The movie was produced by Liosgate??? Lmfao
@@lloydvallentine2 literally they were about to take my money from this video lol yet they try and stop their own marketing
Well I am not gonna watch these movies by that company now
This can literally function as a promotional advertising video for this film, i know I want to watch it now. I can’t believe studios shoot themselves in the foot like this
I don’t think the point of that ending is to answer something, the point is to put ourselves, the audience, on the same level as the villains. That we end up ignoring the girl who has suffered a monumental torture and concentrate only on what she said to Mademoiselle.
Beautiful👌👏
Wow..yes..good point💥🔥
True. That would also play a lot into the director’s point of western decadence. Here we are talking about the ending of this movie when we should perhaps be denouncing a film for featuring such violence
@@SteveNathn THE PERSON WHO WRITES ABOUT VIOLENCE 😂😂😂 IS 1000x WORSE THAN THE VIEWERS…… he actually wrote all that fucked up shit out he’s the one who should be questioned not the audience….
@@Kangaroofilet I thought that was obvious enough that I didn’t mention it lol
To make a weird comparison here: the conclusion you come to is exactly the reason why I think Dr Manhattan in Watchman is as nihilistic and indifferent as he is. He sees everything, knows everything and can do everything and anything. At any place and any time. At that point, what IS the point? Uncertainty and the unknown is simultaniously the biggest fear of mankind and also it's greatest blessing.
That's a great analogy. I would say that I think the difference between Mademoiselle and Dr. Manhattan is how they went about things and for what reasons.
Anything deeper and I'm stumped. Already edited this comment down to this because I realized I had really missed the mark and was projecting.
Dr Manhattan was created by Alan Moore , a human being like you and me . obviously the doc must be like this because somehow he is reflecting the qualities of his creator. Alan Moore doesn't know what a god is truly like . just because Dr Manhattan sees life like this it doesn't mean it has to be like this in general terms .
Wonderfully said, and profound in its own right.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H. P. Lovecraft
Manhattan was a god that could see everything everywhere at the same time, which made him numb to reality itself 'cause if you know it all you can forgive it all and no longer be expectant to the worlds movement. So the most reasonable option was to become human and oblivious to the grand scheme of things again like The Watchmen series did by putting Manhattan as a family dad living an normal life. Maybe there's a god living between us due to his boreness.
There is a great significance of the Madam removing her makeup before ending it. She distanced herself from her character. Like washing away her sins.
Showing her true face, literally. I didn't pick up on that when I first watched it. Awesome how engaging with movie interpretations makes you see layers of possible meaning beneath the surface.
Dunno, washing away her sins would mean she is seeking forgiveness, which she wouldn't have by ending herself.
ACCEPTING her sins, cause she knows now that she isn't going to a good place maybe?
What if instead of distancing herself from her character, it is a metaphor. Where her face and eyes are no longer "covered" she has finally seen the truth. A bit of a Platos cavern if you will, where she no longer sees the shadows.
And if we put on our tinfoil hats and go even deeper, she can be the allegory for life itself. Trying to find meaning through suffering and once that meaning has been achieved there's nothing else left to life than death. Ana was just an innocent bystander that was in the wrong place trying to help someone and the madam took her as the next martyr, because life is not just and shit happens to everyone all the time.
I'm not sure about washing away her sins, but perhaps more like a stage performer undressing after the curtains have drawn. After hearing what Ana said, Madamoiselle realized her life's performance is over, and thus she can retire her character.
Yes! I felt so as well. But can't figure out why. Nice reading the comments under your post.
I used to ask the same question. “Is there a point to suffering?”
Turns out it’s completely insane to dwell on whether there is a point to suffering. Absolutely ridiculous to spend time on. Rather, we should acknowledge that suffering exists and that we should do everything in our power to alleviate suffering for others.
I agree.while we sit around wondering the purpose and the reason we suffer we aren't acting to better ourselves aswell as others,inaction is worse than evil because it allows evil to prevail.
I think the problem with asking the meaning of life is always asked for people who are suffering,so the negative emotion would inevitable give a bad answer,a happy person will also give a different answer based on their emotions,maybe that question should be asked without engaging with our emotions 🤔
Suffering can be a major source of growth, mental and physical maturity. If you spend your life swaddled in comforts you will only be developmentally behind, we see this all the time with sheltered children.
For all. Including Animals
@@SoldatDuChristChannel But you only grow from suffering because of the promise of getting rid of it at some point.
I think your "realised what the meaning of life is rendering life useless" theory is the best. It works on the viewer from a writing perspective too. We don't get to find out what she saw because if we did we wouldn't feel as compelled by the ending. We would not be wondering for days about what it was she saw. In other words, our interest in the movie would "self terminate" immediately after viewing.
Losing interest in a movie after understanding its complete meaning, we search for the next one, just like killing urself to go to the next life. Our story ends to start a new one.
The is so true
I like getting all the answers tho! Let my wonderings self terminate
I kinda sorta agree. What if Anna didn’t tell her what she saw but explained to her that what she saw is not the same as what M will see and the only way to know is to see it oneself? Somewhat akin to “your truth” not necessarily being “the truth”, different and true for each individual, you cannot own someone else’s truth. It has no connection to you, no meaning for you, only that one person.
The director can’t even know what Anna saw because that would assume he knows something he can’t possibly know. But he needs to in order to build the story to it. It has to be unique and unrelatable in specifics but conceptually the same for all.
Lol not sure that made sense so good luck w my rambling
@ ELLIOTT ~ The 'realised what the meaning of life is rendering life useless" theory' is the one I believe too. I think Anna told Madame exactly what she'd been wanting to know all 17 years, and it wasn't that what Anna told her was scary or upsetting... I think Anna confirmed for her that there was an afterlife and she was seeing the beauty of it. However the one thing Madame didn't count on was that having that answer... finally... after searching for so long, was anticlimactic and she immediately had "buyer's remorse" and wish she didn't know because that had become her entire reason for being. Now suddenly she feels lost and literally lost her will to live. I can understand that, yet having had a near death experience myself and seeing that there's an afterlife...a beautiful one... didn't personally cause ME to feel like there's no more point in living. It has the opposite affect and made me appreciate life more while knowing I have something to look forward to when I die ..but not like I want to die soon. So that's where the conundrum is for me... how is it my experience had the opposite effect on me yet I can also understand why her knowing made her lose her will to live. Maybe it has to do with the fact that she'd done so much horrible things in the pursuit of knowing what comes after death that that became her whole identity. Sorry this comment is so long and I hope it's coherent at least LOL.
One other aspect of the film's ending is that the audience is left in a similar position to the other cult members: We're both left wondering what Anna saw. As witnesses we're almost as complicit in Anna's torture as they are.
Wow your right. How many times over would we watch this happen to someone else in a sequel just to get that answer?
@@keepitlo00 you gave me chills with your awesome comment.....made me think of how we humans can be so brutal, reckless & single-minded in our pursuit of knowledge.
No, we just watched a movie. That would imply the director is just as complicit in the torture, or the actors are as complicit in it. Which just doesn't make any sense.
@@hysterical5408 but isn't that why ppl innately watch horror? We are complicit to the violence and torture on the screen (we as in society) to gain a big reveal at the end?
@@SunshyneA not really, or at least I don't think so. I think we watch horror as an exercise in empathy for the victim.
Anna peered into the beyond and when Mademoiselle asked her the meaning of life, she replied, "42." Mademoiselle couldn't handle the fact that Douglas Adams had been right all along and ended it.
Amazing comment
Perhaps why she was in a bathroom at the end too; looking for her towel and realizing she'd never had one.
What the hell are you even talking about…? She never said that…. Huh? Why do you lie so much just stop
💀💀 lmao makes sense to me ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯
Who is Mcdouglass Adam's?
I think you're right, and the fact that Madamoiselle waited several hours to kill herself proves it. If the answer itself was the driving force behind her suicide, she either would have shared it when everyone arrived, or killed herself immediately after learning. She thought long and hard before taking the answer to the grave, and that means it was nothing so simple as Good News or Bad.
Very good point mate, thank you !
I agree, there are far more options here than just yes/no to the existence of Afterlife, like simulation theory, ontological solipsism, eternal return, the possibility that they are already in Hell etc. Whether there was an afterlife or not wouldn't prompt me to kill myself in either case.
In the end, she herself was a martyr. She died alone to spare her followers the truth of finding out whatever it was she knows
Perhaps Mademoiselle discovered that the ‘end of life’ is nothing more than the cessation of consciousness, and she couldn’t live with that being the answer-which there is little doubt to me that this is what ‘death’ truly is.
She could have lied. So: no.
For all we know, Anna just said, “I’ll never tell you, nor will anyone else. You’ll just have to see for yourself.”
*YOU HAVE THE MOST BASED ANSWER OF ALL...*
I feel that Madam has failed to get cooperation from her martyrs so many times that she gave up. She was old and almost dead anyway. Going out on her own terms a few years earlier has little consequence. The problem is that pushing a person to the brink of death pushes them in a position of absolute peace. At that point, different types of pain become indistinguishable. Most people describe dying as the most peaceful they've ever felt. I believe Anna said what they all said, "I refuse to tell you, "OR "Please, let me go."
I haven't seen the movie, but of all of the theories I've read about, this one makes the most sense.
"Nya nya nya nya nya nyah"
@@TheTillmanSneakerReview How can ppl describe dying post-hoc? 😂
interesting but i don’t think this is true. mademoiselle said that the description of the other world was perfectly clear and exact and there was no doubt behind what anna said. if it weren’t for that conversation with her assistant before she shoots herself i might’ve agreed
A friend said the clue is in the end credit scenes: happy moments of the protagonists together. Your afterlife are the good memories you created on life. But I think there are cases the people "escape" to their good memories under extreme pain (maybe part to the euphoric state).
disassociation under trauma
@@DeezN00tz99 thank you I looked for the term and I didnt find it!
“And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make”
-Paul McCartney
@galaticdino From a document that was declassified about a decade or two ago: "Having ascertained that human consciousness is able to separate from physical reality and interact with other intelligences in other dimensions within the universe, and that it is both eternal and destined for ultimate return to the Absolute we are faced with the question: "So what happens then?" Since memory is a function of consciousness and therefore enjoys the same eternal character as the consciousness which accounts for its existence it must be admitted that when consciousness returns to the Absolute it brings with it all the memories it has accumulated through experience in reality. The return of consciousness to the Absolute does not imply an extinction of the separate entity which the consciousness organized and sustained in reality. Rather, it suggests a differentiated consciousness which merges with and participates in the universal consciousness and infinity of the Absolute without losing the separate identity and accumulated self-knowledge which its memories confer upon it. What it does lose is the capability for generation of independent thought holograms, since that can be done only by energy in motion. In other words, it retains the power to perceive but loses the power of will or choice. In exchange, however, this consciousness participates in the all-knowing infinite continuum of consciousness which is a characteristic of energy in the ever present. Consequently, it is accurate to observe when a person experiences the out-of-body state he is, in fact, projecting that eternal spark of consciousness and memory which constitutes the ultimate source of his identity to let it play in and learn from dimensions both inside and outside the time-space world in which his physical component currently enjoys a short period of reality.
@@throwacnt7603 in english, doc?
I like the creepier idea, which just goes back to Lovecraft: What lies beyond is so vast, so blasphemous to human knowledge and perception, or just so terrible that to be alive and healthy and merely hear about it causes an instant, irrational need to off yourself, even if you know it will just take you there right away, because your mind is just completely broken.
Creepiest, though, is to just accept not knowing. It's kind of the point of the unknown.
That’s what I got from it what she heard was just not for humans to know and she offed herself
my man!
Knowledge is what everyone seeks. To get that knowledge and then off one self, would be the opposite of what one would actually do. But it's written so that is how it works in that mythos. Then again, gaining all knowledge at once and not being able to process it, ehhh...
Hee action to kill herself wouldn't make sense if this were the case. She wouldn't be in a rush to die knowing something so horrible awaited. She'd try to live life to the fullest and tell her cult the same.
Revival by Stephen King
The scenes with the woman who had that metal contraption screwed into her skull genuinely bothered me. I hadn’t got that feeling from a horror film in a while.
Yeah thats what got me too
That scene and the one where she was skinned alive
I never ever dared to watch the movie as a whole, only reviews and few graphic scenes, I'd rather watch Gronenberg films for 24 hours straight instead watch martyrs once.
it's the only time I've ever cried watching a horror movie.
What made me ponder in thought is the non-chalance of the torturers.
My friend and I watched this movie when we were in high school, probably around 17 years old. Afterwards, we didn’t really speak for the next hour. The profound nature of the ending wasn’t lost on me then, but it took me a few years to process the feelings the movie left me with. In hindsight, it significantly influenced my taste in movies, art and especially horror.
I also watched it in high school and it fucked me up. I recently re watched it a few weeks ago and it fucked me up worse this time.
You 2 just sat there in quite for an hour? Kinda scary on its own 😐
I also watched it too young.. makes you remember why we have age restrictions
This was me with human centipede lol the cover made me think it was some corny goosbumps typa film boy was I wrong and traumatized
Yep.
There is another movie that also had a similar effect on me, “Speak No Evil”.
My interpretation was Anna saw something so great because of her pain that Mademoiselle and the organization will never experience since they never suffered like she did. Anna might have told Mademoiselle something along the lines of “There is something wonderful in the afterlife but only those who suffer as I have will be rewarded”. Mademoiselle realizes there is something after death but she will never have it and doesn’t want to put herself through the same thing she put other women through. Her work was in vain and perhaps envied the martyrs that she lost the will to live. There was nothing waiting for her or the organization but didn’t want them to know that. She didn’t want them to feel the same disappointment. Anna is rewarded for her suffering but not the organization. In a way Anna and Lucie got their revenge.
That’s actually a really good interpretation. Not only does it fit with the narrative the writer was going for, but it’s a good way to end such a grim story.
I wish the ending was her telling the lady ''I saw what is to come after death but I am not telling you''. Would explain why that woman commits suicide. I just can't accept that she told her after everything they did to her and more when they can't harm anymore.
@@LifeInPink999 It would be a reasonable answer. And it would achieve the same end: either way, the tormentors would be unable to access the thing they desired most.
Idk do u think there being a separation of people would make he kill herself with trying to also achieve that same reward as the other girl.?
@Mergerie Smithaton- well said
my favorite interpretation has always been that anna lied and said she saw nothing, thus leading to mademoiselle’s mentioned guilt and self termination. but it was all anna’s lie, just something to give her power over her torturers
*BASED* That's what I'd do. What incentive is there to be honest, since the torturers vowed to never let her go? She's felt enough pain to send her to death, a peaceful state of consciousness without pain. Anna's suffering is pointless because preparing for the afterlife is pointless, thereby making the Madam's entire life pointless. The Madam likely didn't want to feel the pressure of telling her cult the truth, which would have made their lives pointless..."Always doubt" the ideal of pointlessness.
Or similarly told her to screw herself. Then mademoiselle realizes oh wait these girls won't tell me the truth because of what I did to them. Thus making her entire purpose pointless and hopeless.
I'm not a fan of the "didn't see anything" answer because that's just not concrete enough of an answer. How many of their subjects before this "saw nothing." Why would this time be any different?
@LockeKappa maybe because she was the only one who resisted the end of the torture, being skined alive would make u pass away, not even half wat though
@@lockekappa500 Exactly this, she would have considered the attempt a failure and kept trying with others.
I don't really know how to put this into words yet, but I think the aspect of empathy played a big role in this movie and possibly in what Anna saw. I don't think it's a coincidence that Anna became a martyr while others didn't - she demonstrated great compassion by helping Lucie, trying to help Gabrielle (the mother Anna killed), and helping the woman with the contraption on her head. Even to people who were broken, who commited terrible evils, she still offered help and comfort.
Maybe that's what she revealed to the Madame - that only those who show compassion, and give themselves to others, can gain entry into heaven or the afterlife or whatever, which also means that the Madame and her ilk were damned to never see what Anna saw.
I think this also fits with what the director said. If the point of the film was to show the evil and lack of conscience in the modern world, then empathy and compassion could be seen as the antidote.
I think in a way this would mean that the point of suffering is to allow others to help you. In the face of the suffering of others, people will show who they truly are. Those who help may ascend, those who don't, don't. What that says about the god that created this world, that's a different question.
You are the only one here who gets it.
This should have more likes. I definitely agree
@@NovaQuinzel That's what I get for commenting 10 months too late
Totally misunderstood the film watch it again and pay close attention to the first half hour all the clues are there.
@@michaelking9818 No offense, but if you have your own interpretation, just say it. I don't feel like guessing what's going on in your head.
1) She saw something so great the Mademoiselle lost her will to continue living and rushed to this place, hoping she could enter
2) She saw something so terrible that Mademoiselle gave up due to guilt and regret
3) She saw nothing or just meaningless images and Mademoiselle lost the meaning of her life
No matter what is the outcome, the message seems clear to me: do not look after secrets not made for the eyes of the living. If you know what will happen, everything will lose meaning. The benefit of doubt is the greatest mercy ever granted.
That last point is how I feel. If somehow someone I knew could offer me 100% conclusive proof of what, if anything, happens after death. I don't think I'd want to know. There are a number of possibilities that would absolutely mentally destroy me, or anyone else who found out the truth.
No secrets , science tells us what to expect but HUMAN imagination is the creator of EXPONENTIAL possible universes and some horrific ideas as well?
@@edthoreum7625 science doesn’t explain everything
MAybe you're saying something similar to what Max is saying, but I agree more with how you've explained it.
Ok then how is Anna choosing to still live on?
Martyrs was probably the fourth or fifth horror movie I ever saw, and I saw it in college. Ana’s tortured face right before she tells Mademoiselle the truth of life haunted me for years after, and I think that - maybe this is a cop-out, I don’t know - I think that the meaning of life, the thing that causes Mademoiselle to end it, is quite simple: the meaning of life is whatever we make of it; in the discovery of this truth, she has to then come to grips with the fact that the meaning of her life has been to cause the suffering of innocents in the pursuit of a greater truth, when, for her, there will never be a greater truth than what she has done. “Keep doubting,” then, is a plea for the rest of her Society to find other meanings, because hers cannot be survived.
I like this!!
@ Murphy Leigh ~ holy crap... I was pretty firm in my belief of what Anna told Madame and why Madame ended her life, but your theory makes me reconsider mine now! I love your interpretation and think I may have to incorporate it in the theory I have had.
Wow
@@applejuice3500 ok
Good shit OP
That last shot of Anna is freaking haunting... gives me the shivers, every damn time
Fr
I think I might be dead inside😫 this movie made me feel nothing. Omg.
@@LuckyCharms23 wow you're so cool 😻😻 you didnt feel anything so cool wow ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
🙄
@@catlirious thanks 🤡
@@catlirious bad day?
Anna could only see it because of the suffering and literally becoming a Martyr, mademoiselle even if she “self terminates” would never get to see it. The martyrs got something out of their pain in the end. A bittersweet ending
What she said (which wasn't actually written or shared with anyone who was a part of the production) was said, not to make the Madam want to hurry to death as quick as possible for some existential prize, but something that she knew would torment her so deeply that death was the only way to end that torment. The implication is that she has absolutely no incentive whatsoever to tell the Madam anything, and has spent every waking moment preparing for exactly what to say when her moment arrives.
I agree with your take, I like to think that after everything she'd been through she still managed to muster up the strength to tell Mademoiselle something so unimaginable it could drive her to madness.
@@jillyb100 didn't she also cause Lucy to self-terminate? I didn't watch it yet but based on the plot mentioned in this video, I see a pattern.
@@putty-e2872 No there were other issues with Lucy that this recap skipped. It's messed up. I really recommend it.
@@jillyb100 nah, i am not watching that movie. Call me a coward, but there is a line and i will not cross it
@@alpha_9997 smart move. It will seep under your skin and stay there for a while trust me.
I chose to believe that she saw nothing but told them exactly what they wanted to hear and even though she was dying, in the end she got the last laugh. It’s the only way I watch that movie and not be completely miserable afterwards lol
Interesting, I like that a lot of things can be interpreted from the ending. I speculated on the end of this movie as well when I watched it many years ago with a friend. That I went to go lookup and as well found the interview with the creator. I actually had a similar theory to yours.
But after reading what the creator said I think another possibility, that she did in fact see something and did achieve what the purpose of their sick experiment was. But what she told her was exactly what the creator explained. They are already in a apocalyptic time where those that are evil and do great acts of horror for their own minor benefit are damned in the afterlife. Possibly she saw her friend who self terminated, even though she did perform an horrific act, she did not do it for evil sake, but to bring judgment to their evil. Only when friend thought that she was mistaken and took innocent lives did she kill herself as an act of self punishment was she accepted into the light. The Madam, realizing she and all her benefactors are damned, thought a quick way to "cleanse" herself was to self terminate and hope that would be enough for salvation. But due to this just being another act of greed would just send her into damnation. She is not capable of a pure heart and good deeds, only does things out of self interest. So not sharing this with the others and telling them to keep doubting she wanted the self sacrifice to atone for the sins for herself so she could be saved. But she learned nothing, as she is still damned after her self termination as it wasn't a selfless act but still a selfish act. I'm not religious but thinking more on what the creators said and the mystical part of the ending makes me think the end was designed with something like that in mind. Although was left ambiguous to leave the ending open ended in meaning and take away for the viewer.
@@kernsanders3973 but why not tell the other? It could be interpreted as a selfless act? Though i quite like your theory, the bad guys get what they deserve and it still satisfies the existential nature of the movie.
@@kernsanders3973 oh, also, it makes sense as the guy who made this movie probably view captilists as selfish who only ever do a thing for their own benifit
@@alpha_9997 She is incapable of thinking selfless, well that was my thought. She initially wanted to tell them all. Which is why she called them all to gather.
But after her thinking about it. If she tells them she and they are all damned but it might be possible to self terminate in hopes to atone for their sins against these poor women and probably numerous other acts these sick rich people did, then they are in fact not doing it as selfless. They are doing it in hopes of being granted eternity in paradise. But if she acts now and only tells them to keep doubting that may make her feel like she is doing it as a selfless act, which she is not. Like said she is not capable of doing anything that isn't selfish.
If you look at that room of people, its full of rich elites who are desperate to hear there is afterlife and it is hopefully a good one. The only thing they ever needed to do, was not be evil and be good. As simple as that, but that is asking too much of these elites. They can only screw over, use and abuse others for their own benefit, never really capable of seeing what they are doing is indeed damning them further.
@@alpha_9997 So yeah, the madam or anyone of those rich elites could have anytime in over the years or that time the protagonist was being tortured could just realize what they were doing was evil and put a stop to it and literally save those victims, that could possibly atone for their sins to a degree. Possibly not even allow them into paradise but be reincarnated back into life on earth for another try instead of being damned to eternal hell. But none of those thoughts ever crossed any of their minds, they could only think of themselves and in doing so cause acts beyond horrific to innocents. The madam knowing the truth, freaked got scared and did something just as selfish as she has been doing up till that point. But convinced herself it was a selfless act and by not telling them it makes her feel that its a bit more selfless than a selfish one. Which of course its just a selfish as everything she and them all have been doing.
As someone who just got done watching the movie, my mind keeps going back to that end credits scene with Lucie and Anna playing as kids. I think that, at some point after the events of the movie, Anna did finally die, and this is her rejoining Lucie in an afterlife similar to Heaven. After all the hell those two have been through, they're finally able to exist with no trauma, and can just exist in happiness.
While I'm still trying to think of an explanation for what exactly Anna said, I think that explanation was something the Mademoiselle was never meant to hear. Like some almost Lovecraftian secret that was never meant for the living, which drove her to suicide. Or maybe the afterlife wasn't something she wanted. Maybe in her pursuit of finding out what the afterlife is before her time, especially at the expense of who knows how many young women her society has tortured, she was pretty much locked out of such an afterlife. Either she'll be in hell, or just no longer exist, only a void. Like, how the hell do you explain that to a group of people who spent their lives looking for answers, no matter the cost?
And you would be completely wrong, watch it again pay close attention to first 30 mins
@michaelking9818 explain your theory or keep being a cryptic dickhead and f off
@@michaelking9818 You are a troll
@@Yayofangamer16 No British’s
No, no. OP has silly logic. @@Yayofangamer16
My first thought after seeing Martyrs years ago was that Anna probably saw the standard Catholic afterlife duality of heaven and hell. She then described an irresistibly tempting heaven to Mademoiselle knowing she’d actually be sending her to hell, thus getting her revenge.
Yo, that ones pretty good 🤙🏾
Interesting. 🤔
but then why would she kill herself instead of sharing it with her organization she dedicated her life too? and thrn to say “keep doubting” to ettiene idk
@@sheepsdog I think she dedicated her life to herself, not to any organization. She was a pretty awful woman after all. She might have told her underling to “keep doubting” so as to preserve the organization and her earthly legacy. If everyone else followed her Heaven’s Gate style, her legacy would die as well. As if she wanted to ascend into heaven and leave her disciples behind to carry on her work, in a twisted mockery of Christ.
Assuming Anna described a vision of the afterlife to Mademoiselle, there are three basic options: it’s good, it’s bad, or there’s nothing. If Anna says it’s bad, I don’t see Mademoiselle being in a huge rush to get there. If it’s good (for Mademoiselle) I don’t see Anna encouraging her torturer to jump through the pearly gates ASAP. In essence, the only combination that makes sense is that Anna sees a bad outcome for Mademoiselle and deceives her into choosing it.
IF Anna told her there was *nothing* after death, no greater meaning, then everything she and her followers have spent their lives striving toward has been in vain. If, instead, she communicated something transcendent and uplifting -- if she conferred actual WISDOM upon her torturer -- then that wisdom would no doubt render her capable of seeing how profoundly what she and the others are doing flies in the face of that greater meaning. Thus rendering everything they have spent their lives striving for in vain. She'd realize, in that moment, that she was always damned if she did/damned if she didn't.
At the end of Atreyu’s journey, the childlike empress tells him that the human child they needed was with them all along, and Atreyu says “my horse died, I nearly drowned, and for what?”, the empress tells him that the human child had to experience what he experienced to understand what needs to be done, and with Bastian, we also followed his journey to understand, there’s no meaning to the end of a journey if there is no journey.
" there’s no meaning to the end of a journey if there is no journey." wow that is profound
Neverending Story is one of my favorite books. It is chock full of profound nuggets like that. Another great one - Bastian is with the Empress and says "I with this moment could last forever." Empress replies "it is forever because it's always right now". (Paraphrased but you get the point)
They looked like such strong hands..
Did the childlike empress shoot herself in the head with the words "Keep guessing!"?
YES, thank you!!
Whenever I read the comments of "she saw nothing", it felt like an absolute cop-out. Anna even nods when asked if she did see something.
There is this element of sheer transcendence that empties life of all its meaning, or maybe all its goodness, if you get to know it. Or at least if you get to know it without being a true martyr yourself, accepting suffering willingly, integrating it into your being as the last thing you will ever be. It's so much more interesting and profound, there's so much more meaning to take out of it, than "she didn't see sh*t lol".
Thank you, thank you! Totally agree with you.
it's called imagining beyond imagination. The human mind attracts mysticism and ideas we do not understand, but the mind also seeks validation for one's own perception of the truth. In between, what's left with it is what one wants to believe.
"There is this element of sheer transcendence" We're talking about a movie. Real life? You don't know shit, obviously.
@Cu6upckuû My issue with the idea of Mademoiselle going to hell is that, if the knows it's her fate, why kill herself directly? Why would she _rush_ into hell, rather than enjoy life for at least a few more years? Why would she not try to look for repentence and avoid hell?
It could be as you said. But it doesn't sit well with me for these reasons, which will remain in the realm of speculation.
Also my obvious love for lovecraftian concepts biases me toward other explanations.
Sorry, off topic. Just gotta say, nice avatar! I love SH4, and Cynthia is best ghost. I always let her roam around without using the Sword of Obedience on her. She's like a really hairy, spooky bird-- she has to fly free, and sometimes offers easter eggs.
My interpretation was always that mademoiselle just heard ramblings of a mad woman driven to insanity by torture. She then realized that there's no way to peer into the afterlife, so she wanted to see it herself. She says "keep doubting" to have everyone lead their lives without knowing, because the pursuit of knowing would waste it.
I always enjoy when anyone introduces a "3rd option" into the equation. Thank you.
this is really interesting, makes me think
Ok, but what's special about this woman that made her rambling so "motivating"?
@@parlor3115 she was the first one to be able to talk to mademoiselle. this caused her to realize it was for naught.
@@Akimbo_Primus Doesn't make sense that she'd stomach the acts of the torture being exacted on women for years, but collapse just because this one women was able to say some stuff.
I think that the writers probably intended the audience to fill in the blanks, to come up with something more profound than they could ever do themselves, and to be able change their ideas about it over time, making the movie more timeless than it would be with spelling it out.
But I guess just going by her character, I think of Mademoiselle as a shallower and pettier person than you and I think she killed herself because she didn't want to share. She got what she wanted in life and she wanted to make it harder for other people to gain the same knowledge, even if they now had a proven way to replicate the experience. This is a person who drives innocents to unimaginable levels of despair and agony for whatever goals she has, she is the ultimate narcissist, she will not share.
I feel that many writers have done this over the years. Writing an ending can be difficult and making it thought provoking is even harder, so why not just leave a bunch of holes right at the end and make the audience write your ending for you.
SOMA is a great example of this and could easily be translated into a movie. It's ending left me thinking about it constantly for a good month or two, and to this day it still makes me feel dread.
Still wonder how he never noticed the entire time that "he" wouldn't be going because that was my assumption the moment the process was explained to me.
That ending also made me feel quite empty and reflective for some days after, but yeah the protagonist’s lack of understanding was annoying at times
I would LOVE to see that made into a series it could be absolutely amazing !
For me it did both. "Simon 1" & " Simon 2" may have been damned and left to suffer alone, but the game seems to imply the advanced computer on the satellite he launched did in fact act as its own reality and allowed Simon "3" to be happy. Their sacrifice was not in vain even if they don't know it. That of course also brings up the classic is life a simulation thing many times. But if we'll never know, what does it matter then?
Yes 100%
Yes! This is what I've been saying for a while.
The only thing I would like to add is that Mademoiselle's understanding and emotions are different from Anna. She does terminate herself in some strange way as a Martyr, but she doesn't deserve that status because it was self infliction. Anna has no guilt, but Mademoiselle clearly does.
She realizes that all of her efforts were a vain obsession with finding purpose when the only real purpose we ever needed it just to live without concerning ourselves with our ultimate purpose. She realizes that the atrocity of her actions benefits no one and serves no purpose. She achieved nothing.
Ultimately, in our live this is what we do, we go on forever searching for purpose and achieve nothing. When we reach the end of our lives, we still haven't discovered purpose. The knowledge that you will never find a purpose makes life futile.
The hunt for purpose itself is without purpose, but it's the only thing that gives life purpose.
The general audience reels back and asks "Who would make this? Why? What is its purpose?"
Most of the audience will never be able to find meaning in it, but will carry the knowledge of the suffering they witnessed with them and always doubt the film's purpose.
The film is just as paradoxical as suffering and life itself. It exists because it can. It exists to show us how meaningless it is to search for meaning. Absolute nothingness is the base state of our existence; it represents a complete lack of meaning and also infinite potential, like a blank canvas or the vastness of the black void we call the universe.
It's profound, artistic, philosophical, and disturbing.
House Made of Dawn by N. Scott Momaday and Moby Dick by Herman Melville discuss the same subjects of nothingness and meaninglessness. House Made of Dawn does this through the concept of words, and how words are simultaneously completely meaningless and yet sounds can hold so many different meanings through the lens of the individual. Moby Dick does this through its introspection about the vast, unrelenting sea; Captain Ahab is on a self-destructive mission to give his life purpose, yet, what else can he do?
The first truth of the teachings of Budda, Life is suffering. The last truth, suffering can be overcome by transcending life.
Tbh I haven’t seen this movie yet but I’m definitely gonna give it a watch. I just wanna say thanks for putting into words my daily existential crisis lol
I LOVE the way you explain it! ❤️
this is such a beautifully written comment
This reeks of Nihilism... And I love it! 😂
well said
You must love Reddit
I always thought that Mademoisselle simply couldn't wait to see the afterlife and just went to it herself, but I wonder why she told the other person to keep doubting. Why doubting if she chooses to go to it straight away?
Came to the same conclusion. She liked what she heard and was emotional about the results so she couldn't wait and offed herself.
I've a feeling that the reason why she said "keep doubting" was because everybody didn't believe or stopped believing her after a certain point because of how long she's been doing this and they thought it pointless while she kept pushing to redo the experiment until somebody could give her results.
This movie is NOT pointlessly obscene. In fact, the grizzly nature of what happened in the movie is part of the point. This movie has stuck with me in a way that no other movie ever has. Not a movie I can recommend to everyone, but if you make it to the end you will have something that you will never forget.
I like really weird horrors and dark themed films. Does this have a good story or is the lasting impression more of a shocker/wtf moment? Don’t mind obscene stuff just not into movies that are nothing but pointless gore
Translation: i only get erect to gore
@@Wooxy117 Watch it. It is not a shocker/wtf moment. It all happens for a reason.
@@Wooxy117 It has a pretentious but pretty decent story and is a really effective shocker. The torture is really hard to swallow though. What ever you do, don't watch the US remake, since it's shit
@@AgentLemmon I would not call this movie pretentious whatsoever. Your second sentence I feel contradicts your first one haha. Yes the remake sucked fucking ass! I have watched a lot of shocker/fucked up movies for the sake of it but this movie stuck with me for months but personally I am obsessed with what happens after I die because there is no proof and it seems that everyone thinks they have an answer (without proof/egotistical cunts)
Interesting interpretation, especially considering Laugier has also said he was in deep suicidal depression when making this film. So perhaps it was a way to reflect and find some meaning with his own pain as a way to encourage himself to keep living, keep doubting, rather than succumb to the temptation to self-terminate.
Yes.
This is the horror movie that left me feeling something deeply existential, eerie and cosmic. It is profound.
Watch ...A Dark Song
Listen to - Ajahn Chah, Eckhart Tolle, Swan Teal, etc.
The thing is, you can tell this story without the ultra graphic torture porn.
What I always thought about the ending, is that there was never going to be a satisfying answer.
I think she simply said… “there is nothing.” Which prompts the suicide of the villain. She realizes they did all the horrible things they did for no reason at all.
This. People seem to be uncomfortable with the nihilistic interpretation of the ending, but it seems the most reasonable.
1 - mademoiselle seems kinda irritated / pissed after hearing from Anna. She doesn't seem euphoric or happy. Not the kinda reaction you expect from someone who has just had their life's work validated.
2 - she immediately offs herself and opts to NOT tell her congregation anything other than to keep the dream going and to keep guessing.
Seems to me she didn't have the heart to dash their occultist hopes / dreams / delusions and just ate the lead sandwich herself, knowing she cant unlearn the truth now.
Seems mademoiselle was a very thoughtful and kind lady 😂
this theory makes zero sense. if anna said there was nothing the organization would just conclude that she didn't truly reach martyrdom and couldn't see the afterlife
@@HardlyCarrying that’s how I view it. They’ve obviously been doing it for a while and had previous failures so why would they just give up.
@@ManaAddict47 Because the previous failings where that the martyr was never able to communicate what they saw. There's absolutely no reason mademoiselle would think Anna to be capable of lying to her in that moment. By her worldview she's talking to someone who just experienced the literal afterlife and had to suffer enough physical pain to make her conscious mind shut down, it's completely illogical to think Anna could be tricking her in that moment, so if Anna said "There's nothing after death" or "It's a big white void and nothing happens there" or anything of the sort that's the gospel according to mademoiselle's own logic.
@@HardlyCarrying No, they wouldn't. There's no reason they would have that reaction, it makes zero sense. They're a cult who has tried this dozens if not hundreds of times and they've had like six martyrs, their process and beliefs are set in stone. Anna is the only martyr to communicate after their transcendence, there's no reason for them to assume it's possible for a person to essentially reach nirvana and then lie to everyone about it. By their logic that's an impossible scenario.
I think the ending is more a "self-reflection": it can be either "positive" (there is a afterlife/meaning) or "negative" (all is meaningless), depending on each viewer's experience and outlook on life. That's why the martyr's eye reflects so much it's almost like a mirror in the end.
A revelation to the one who has earned it is a panacea against all forms of suffering and hardship. To the one who has stolen it from another, it is a death knell that rings through ones' very being and cannot be resisted nor denied.
I like this interpretation, personally my first reaction was that it was nothing. But, that’s already in line with my current beliefs. I did like hearing the argument for the other though!
I think this is more a general quality of any ambiguous ending than a meaningful part of this movie's ideas in particular.
@@sabresister why would she keep it a secret then and just say there's nothing? There's already alot of atheists living normally. Why'd she kill herself with that secret?
@@chew7656 maybe bc she wanted them to keep searching in her absence? Idk man it’s a movie lol
I always felt like the old crone was told something she really didn't want to hear. That whatever comes after is so deprived of hope for either everyone or just her ilk that she surrendered herself to the inevitable. As you pointed out, I don't think she was told that there is nothing but I also don't think the mere knowledge of the destination is enough to motivate an action such as she took.
This is just my interpretation but to me it seems like she learned something she really didn't want to know.
Yeah, "nothing" isn't really that good of an answer. First, is it a very common interpretation of the afterlife, that is that there isn't one, and many people are at peace at that, atheists for example, Buddhists actually try their hardest to escape their cyclic afterlife and go into the nothing beyond (gross exaggeration, I know), and suicidal people actually prefer the idea of nothing compared to real life. Besides, this is a cult that is convinced an afterlife EXISTS, so they will just assume "nothing" isn't a good enough answer.
Wow that was an incredible take on the movie, just 10/10 you made what was to me one of the most violent movies out there into a philosophical work of art
Absolutely yes!
"What are the losers left with but to make something with their pain?" That's actually beautifully compassionate, and though it seems pessimistic on the surface, I think it's actually optimistic at the core. Even when you have nowhere else to fall, you can take the injustice the world has dealt you and DO SOMETHING with it. That's simultaneously tragic and hopeful, and I know I'll be thinking about it for a long time.
Honestly, that was the best part of this video, being disabled and in chronic pain and having a hell of a time living and losing jobs and friends and dreams; I take my pain and just kinda roll with it, deciding to be as happy and go-lucky as I can be and enjoy life the best I can despite hurting and wishing I hadn't been born a lot of the time. Supposedly I am a happy sponge that just squeezes out happiness to others despite my pain, so I used my pain to see the goodness/things I'm grateful in life and in turn became a very caring and happy person who in turn went on to mother/love any and all people I meet. Lots of broken souls have flocked to me because of this.
That's how serial killers are created.
Pessimism is often, at it's core, optimistic. When you expect the world to screw you the way it always has any slightly positive deviation from that course is worth fifty times what it would mean to an optimist. In that way the pessimist has a more positive outlook on life than the optimist.
@@TempGamesAlso quite literally how religious fanatics are created. "Eh, you got nothing left to lose anyway, right? Try our deity. They will bless you (i.e. we will give you) food, clothing, one or several Holy Books, and a target to attack whose fault everything is, especially your situation."
Welcome to the millenia old tradition of mysticism.
This movie always felt like 3 movies in a trenchcoat.
So i dont think his film is for me.The torture porn element is a block to exploring the philosophical questions it poses.
"Torture porn" and "philosophical questions" contradict each other. "Torture porn" is the term for horror movies that are devoid of any meaning and see the violence as as an end in itself. So make up your mind.
I interpreted the ending as Anna seeing perfection, an eternal euphoria, that only those who suffer like her, or suffer through life without victimizing others, will achieve. This description told to Mademoiselle gives her a taste of what that final paradise could be, although we know that she could never hope to achieve that after all the atrocities she is responsible for. All it took for Mademoiselle though was that sliver of hope, that it might be possible to achieve euphoria, for her to commit suicide. The “keep doubting” line could be an ode to her eternal selfishness, wanting to keep the paradise she hopes to go to for herself. We as the audience know for certain she will not go to “heaven”, but she is willing to risk her mortal life for that slim chance at paradise.
This is my favorite interpretation so far. Very thoughtful
Exactly. And it perfectly jibes with the director's comments, better than any other theory, about Anna using her position of pain to gain an advantage over her torturers, and is a big screw you to those causing the world's ills.
Makes no sense. You are contradicting yourself. "although we know that she could never hope to achieve that after all the atrocities she is responsible for. All it took for Mademoiselle though was that sliver of hope" - seriously?
I found The Empty Man to have a very profound ending, and I'm still thinking about it today. It didn't tie up the movie like expected, but left us in deep thought about everything that happened, what was real or fake in the first place, and what will happen next. But the movie doesn't provide us with that, just a hopeless and haunting final scene. The Empty Man also has one of the scariest horror movie scenes I've seen for a long time with the cabin and cult. Skinamarink also has a really profound ending dealing with parental neglect, childhood faith and susceptibility, and repressed grief.
The Empty Man is so underrated
god……. skinamarink………. ouuuuughhhh that movie altered my brain chemicals is2g
This entire movie was one of the heaviest cinematographic experience I've ever had in my life. I felt so many different and intense emotions that I will never forget, down to a philosophical and psychological level so deep that I have never experienced watching a movie. Magnificent piece of art.
Thanks Slime4real
@@jeltoninc.8542 For what
Too bad the director dont make much films
Lmao
You need to watch more movies
0:51 About right here. Toni Collette's face in this scene was horrifying. The entire 3rd act of this movie was one that made me more tense than any film in a very long time.
I think what Anna saw is what we see in the movie credits, her life with Lucy. I think she explained that to her and madmoiselle realized there is nothing after life, that she was seeing what she wanted to see after all that suffering, thus madmoiselle came to the conclusion that her only objective in life (discovering if there is an afterlife) is pointless.
That or people relive their life in the afterlife, and for madmoiselle it’s just torturing others to find out the meaning. And the reason she doesnt tell others is they’re already all doomed so best stay foolish a bit longer
If my goal in life is to discover if there are aliens and I discover there are not aliens that does not mean the question was pointless, it means I got my answer. So if someone is trying to figure out if there is an afterlife and there is not, that does not mean the question was pointless.
I once asked my sister that, if she could look thru a window & see the afterlife (or absence thereof) BUT she could never unsee the truth....would she look. She was pretty horrified at the notion, I asked her what was the scariest outcome for her, and she said nothingness, but I would argue that nothing is pretty comfortable, because you wouldn't be aware of it......sounds better to me than some of the old complicated ideas of judgement & punishment. I guess one person's nirvana is another's hell. Great vid 👍👍👍
Have her talk to people with real life near-death experiences versus watching the movie and see what she can come to from that. Having had a near death experience, myself, and having discussed my experience with others who all had similar experiences, I believe Anna told her of the nothingness. You're conscious and know you have senses (can smell, hear faint sounds, know you can taste and speak and see but you can't use said senses) and feel weightless and comfortable but it's not scary. It's like you're sleeping but not; sorta like sleep paralysis. What comes after that, who knows, because all of us came back to life and when we did, we had crazy dreams that were either continuations of the peacefulness or they turned into nightmares. The tunnel they show Anna seeing isn't anything different than what we all experienced before succumbing to our experiences.
@@oldladytrexarms Well aren't there other people who go beyond that state into more wonderful/loving experiences? Also were you atheist before your experience? Thanks!
@@oldladytrexarms So basically it was nothingness when you had your near death experience?
@@throwacnt7603Because they're isn't anything afterwards. You can literally recreate these same scenarios in a lab by stimulating specific parts of the brain. Grow up and accept that your life is exactly as consequential as a bacteriophage, and experiences the exact same "aFtErLiFe": none
@@17thknight lol
Mademoiselle simply wanted to stop messing around and get to the afterlife. She was prepared to do this and sought it out quickly soon as she had confirmation from Anna. Getting to the afterlife was her end goal the whole time. She didn't care about anything other than that. Soon as she found out confirmation, she basically gave everyone the bird and said fya'll I'm out.
Really need to watch it again , and pay close attention
if there is an afterlife she would probably go to hell if there isnt she did horrible things for nothing
As a fan of horror I hate this film. Frankly no matter how profound or deep the film seeks to be it all ends up just being exploitative and cruel for no reason. At least with something comparably brutal like Threads there is some grounding in reality, there is a message or a warning embedded in the film cautioning people of what could happen if we let ourselves become too cruel and apathetic in real life. I feel like the goal of Martys is not only to torture the characters for some vague esoteric goal, but the audience too. Maybe that’s the intent of the director, but it’s an experience I personally see no value in.
I think you totally missed the point of the film.
The suffering of the characters is the point.
The ability of humans to inflict suffering even for some hypothetical glimpse of an afterlife, and the ability of the human being to transcend suffering and attain a glimpse of the divine.
I think the film is equal parts horrifying and beautiful.
I think she told her what the afterlife was, and mademoiselle took it as confirmation that the afterlife is better than our current one. She ended herself so she would go into the afterlife immediately to experience the joy/peace etc Anna described. After knowing the afterlife is in fact paradise, why would she want to stay here another day? On the other hand, Anna could haven known she would do this if she described seeing something “worth dying for. She purposely told Mademoiselle what she wanted to hear, knowing she would kill herself to experience it, and thus saving more people from being tortured by eliminating the head of the society. Thus, turning her pain and suffering into something good by ending the cycle.
Well, all big religions that believe in afterlife despises suicide. Whatever she said, or tricked the woman, of put a nail on the coffin of any hope she had to expect anything after such miserable existence of inflicting suffering on others
there is a hole in your story, why would she not share this information to all of her friends.
Two problems with that theory:
Firstly, Mademoiselle tells the man at the door to "Keep doubting" as her final piece of advice.
Secondly, after all their work, why wouldn't she tell anyone what she heard?
Lol I think that what Madam did is so stupid for not sharing the forbidden knowledge she just witnessed, imagine how many girls The Society will try to torture again and again to get a glimpse of what she discovered, and for simply saying keep doubting or guessing. After all that unsuccesful attempts and finally succeeding, why would that stop the organization to try to find a new leader, she all had the chance to end their lifelong mission. The movie is fictional, who cares if they discovered that their suffering and journey in life rendered useless.
Exact opposite. She saw nothing, making the mademoiselle realize they spent years of their lives torturing others for no reason. Hence why she killed herself and said what she said. To somewhat atone for her sins.
To me the ending is that there is something after death but the organization and Madammusiell will never be able to have it. They spent years trying to find it but wasted there lives for it. Anna probably said something like "I saw something so great but you will never unlock it because you will never go through the pain of a Martyre."
One of my all time favorite descriptions of death was in Midnight Mass. Zach Gilford’s character Riley describes it as one big acid trip due to malfunctioning of neuronal synapses and then it just fades to black.
I personally think it takes a bit of a strong will to accept an idea that there is nothing after this life.
I had a dream I died and it was exactly like that. Also if you take acid and meditate it was like what anna saw.
@@Alexandra-ng1ih how does acid not kill you though? It literally disintegrates metal… how did it not destroy your intestines tf?
I don't think it takes a strong will at all, I accept the idea there is nothing after this life and I'm not strong willed at all. I think it just has something to do with thought patterns; if someone thinks a certain way they will unchangeably believe that there is nothing after death because that's what all the evidence says.
I think it takes more courage to recognize life as meaningful. And not in a self created subjective way. In an objective teleological way.
I think the best way to think about it is to ask yourself: "Where was I, and what was my experience of the billions of years before I was born".
For myself - that answer is - "there was nothing". It was not even black. It just was not anything at all.
I suspect it will be same - once we pass on.
Hot take incoming, but I don’t see any potential for meaning in the Madam’s experience. To be honest, I get more out of the brief passage from the interview with the movie’s creator than I do from the entire film.
The entire premise of the society is just an embodiment of the creator’s metaphor: the vague formulaic grasp for meaning at the utter expense of other human beings. The Madam is a living apocalypse. She isn’t even alive in the sense that any real person could relate to. I’m not just talking about her being fictitious. Her entire mode of existence, her entire life’s preoccupation, is so divorced from how humans with any notion of a future (or even a shared reality) engage with life itself that there’s nothing she could be told or tell anyone else that’s relevant to how actual people live. It literally doesn’t matter what she hears or says. She’s so void of empathy or regard for anything but the abstract obsession over “meaning” that her input isn’t actionable to anyone not already bought into the idea of torturing and murdering other humans in the breathless hope of some divine mad lib that’s gonna crack the whole case wide open. Useless.
I think what I appreciated (not necessarily "liked") most about Martyrs was its unflinching look into the depths of nihilism. It takes a bold auteur to drag the audience into their horror dungeon and leave them to find their own way out (...or not?). Most horror films take you on a thrill ride, but then the ride ends, the credits roll, and you get on with your life. 'Martyrs' stayed with me, much like Aronofsky's 'Requiem for a Dream', which had a similarly soul-crushing ending, though far less gory.
Requiem is my favorite movie and people are always confused by that. It’s a beautiful movie
As the torturer leaned down to listen to the great secret of eternal truth a great excitement and Justification washed over her. She had spent her whole life, millions of dollars, tortured thousands of young women to their death. The secret came one word at a time from each of the martyrs.
At first she thought it was defiance. "TELL ME WHAT YOU SAW!"
"NEVER!" The first Martyr declared emphatically.
The next Martyr again refusing..."Never gunna"
The third, "Never Gunna give..."
They would she told herself...they would give her the secret.
"Never gunna give you"
But then she realized something much more sinister was happening.
"Never gunna give you up"...
I’m mad I actually found this hilarious💀💀💀
I both hate you and love you at the same time
you are a GENIUS
I always found it very deep that the lady, who helped the traumatised, carries their burden and then gets even worse treatment. Every now and then I see it in life and this movie comes to mind.
That was painful see Anna the compassionate one who cared for those in pain ended up getting “punished” what for? She did nothing wrong except care for the sick and unfortunate. Then she gets roped into their evil schemes? It was like a mediation on life
@@whitedragoness23 "No good deed goes unpunished".
- DEBUNKING -
This interpretation unfortunately breaks with every spiritual tradition: Every mystic, sufi, zen master, psychonaut or fakir will tell you that the enlightenment (i.e. understanding what the human experience is from an outside perspective) won't lead to the apocalypse, but rather to a new earth (to use a term Eckart Tolle uses frequently).
So the opposite is the case: The lack of understanding, what the human experience is like from the outside, the doubting, the confusion will lead to the apocalypse. The AI mongers, the thermonuclear weapon toters, the gazaciders and bankster cabals are people who resemble the least amount of those insights (even though they pretend a lot with their satanic rituals, fixation on bloodlines and freemason sex practices).
Or, to stay in the comparison: If you know the end of the movie, it is not that the movie becomes pointless. Or have you never watched a movie a second time? Fight Club, anyone?
My own interpretation is that the Mademoiselle is Satan incarnate. She is so hateful in her nature, that she wouldn't share the truth even with her followers, because she is so isolated, detached and separated from everyone (be it torture victim or disciples) that even the fact that all are one is seen as a treasure she wants to keep from others. It is the ego that won't even crumble in the presence of the one truth that annihilates the ego. And that ist the definition of the biblical Satan: An entity that "knows, that God is right and still will not back down and tries to create his own, distinct, separated hell."
Doubts do not fuel purpose, they fuel the insecurity, which fuels the ego, which fuels greed, fear, suffering, shame, etc.
Purpose is fueled by understanding, surrender, love, unity.
And there is a strong indication why the motive of the Mademoiselle are evil in nature: She says "Keep doubting" - as if in case she wouldn't say those words her disciples would keep doubting what that was all about. So it follows that this was meant as a middle finger, not as a well meaning advice.
The movie also shows a second interesting aspect: If you sign up for an organization (read: collective ego) that treats people badly to aquire some lofty goal somewhere in the future be prepared to be fucked over by the leaders of that group. You will be left at the busstation, or on the battlefield, as a fired bank employee or a poisoned guinea pig in the end.
"There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one fully understands the present moment, there will be nothing else to do, and nothing else to pursue."
-Yamamoto Tsunetomo
Yamamoto Tsunetomo's quotes/musings/etc are collected in a book titled "Hagakure". It's a mix of Buddhism, Bushido, personal anecdotes, and "old samurais' tales" and makes for an interesting read.
@@thotslayer9914 The present moment is the key thing. If you believe that there is life after death, do you think that knowing of and staying in the present moment will be any less useful or meaningful after death than before it?
@@thotslayer9914 Uhhhhh, what does that have to do with the discussion?
Sure, I have a neckbeard. I really do. I need to shave it. Kinda' hard to do when you can barely motivate yourself to get out of bed every day, but I'm getting better.
Now, enough about my problems, what do think about what I said? Or are you just going to act like a childish dick and try to hurt my feelings by using such lame insults as "you look like a neck beard! lul!"?
If you want to hurt me, you're going to have to dig a whole lot deeper than that, buddy.
that still doesnt explain anything . it is a very simplistic way to see things .
@@marcusmeins1839 Honestly, I don't even know if you're referring to the original quote or some other comment here.
I wonder though, what would satisfy you then? A more complex paragraph of "mental masturbation"?
Or is it just that you want someone to give you the answer instead of finding out what it means to you?
I mean, I could ask the question "What is the meaning of life?" and I'm sure if 100 people replied, I'd get 100 different answers, or at least close to it.
The point is, you can't get meaning from anyone else directly, you can get ideas from others and form your own opinions based on them, just take them at face value as your own or reject them altogether. Either way, it's up to you to decide on if you agree or not.
So if you say it's too simple, then describe the more complex idea that you think is better than whatever you are disagreeing with here.
I thought of this right after watching the entire video. I think Madam said “Keep Doubting” to let him know that there’s no need to answer that question for the living. Maybe she meant it was only for those who are close to death to know. What could it be exactly? I have zero knowledge of that lol. But it seems like she did learn what she wanted to know and she only wanted to know for herself and not to spread the knowledge to her colleagues. She’s been selfish throughout the movie so I wouldn’t put it pass her at all. Great video man!
It's interesting that Anna in a way helps three women.
Obviously, she helps her friend initially, who dies.
She helps the next victim, who dies.
She then helps Madamoisselle, who dies.
A victim who fights back
A helpless victim
A perpetrator.
All of them die in some reflection of their condition. Her friend dies dissatisfied with vengeance.
The next victim dies, once again, as a victim
Madamoisselle, I believe, dies for a similar reason. She perpretrates these crimes for a purpose, for knowledge, but that knowledge (I agree with your interpretation) is too much for her. Only Anna finds meaning.
Reminds me of two Jung quotes (paraphrased.) "People don't see God because they don't look low enough" and "be wary or wisdom you didn't earn."
I think the second quote fits the overall themes of Martyrs better in my eyes, my interpretation of the ending is that Anna describes the afterlife not as it is properly saying, but as what it needs to be seen, and that relates to christianity's sense of worth, desire and recompense. So, what Mademoiselle hears, to me, is that there's is no answer for those who didn't pursue the question properly, and Anna, who suffered the most but also helped others in it's own way, have proved herself to be dignified enough to see the real deal, while Mademoiselle terminates herself because she can't bear the thought she needs to pass through all that too if she wants but a glimpse. Perhaps the truth she wanted was not worthy anymore or perhaps she did learned that there's nothing for everyone but those who've gone through the whole process.
"Keep doubting" because you don't ever want to know the concrete answer to the question you are asking.
Mademosle wouldn't self terminate if theres nothing.
It would be stupid, even with her guilty, wich by the way wouldn't matters, and she would be free to do whatever she pleases, guilty is a moral choice in a world where morals are a social construct, but for Mademosele know the truth is a bigger moral choice, and so anything she did was justifyable in her own eyes.
If there is something, let's just say heaven and hell, Mademosele also wouldn't kill herself, and in fact would do whatever she could to avoid her own fate, wich would definetely will be down not up.
If the afterlife is something different, then like an existence post death or like reincarnation, then she WOULD DO EXACTLY THAT, to get rid of the guilty, and only get the punishment, reincarnation means be reborn in a new life you still has karma to deal with, BUT no guilty, you are purged of your sins the moment you are reborn. Perhaps this is what Mademosele knows and this is the reason why she ended her own life.
Quite close.
You aren't at all purged of your sins once reborn, everyone is (re)born into specific vessels for a reason based on what they did in a past life, as in how they conditioned their soul, if you've conditioned your soul to be heavily afflicted by addictions because of trauma then you might just find yourself also being an addict in the next life. Of course you wouldn't know that right away which is why people feel clueless about why they have the issues that they have. It's a lot like how alcoholism isn't just some purely genetic disease, it's a symptom of trauma that has been passed on to family generation after generation (Think of how native americans are predisposed to alcoholism due to generational traumas they've suffered due to colonization and the issues it gave them in the modern era and so fourth.)
The non-abrahamic, dharmic religions such as Tibetan Buddhism have known the truth about reincarnation for a long time, it's simply a fact that has been forgotten and lost due to christian colonization and dogma, along with massive amounts of damage and erasure of knowledge perpetrated to protect a certain agenda to keep people narrow-minded, thinking that you only live "once" when you've lived more times than you can imagine. You can't exactly remember who you were entirely before since it was purely egoistic, but the traces of your reactions and deeds that were committed by your soul in past lives directly affected who you're born as and the rest of your environment, it shapes everything. There are in fact, even people (Tibetan Lamas to be specific) who can die at will without having to inflict any sort of violence upon themselves and choose to reincarnate in certain ways based on practices and knowledge that are not easily accessible to the public as it could be easily misused.
@@atacina i actually subscribe to slightly different, but very similar theory. if you've read the egg, that's basically what i'm about to exposite here.
that story, was one of the few times I was genuinely awestruck at an idea. conceptual ideas are cool but ultimately frivolous. I mean this in any facet of the world in general. but the story of The Egg, genuinely had me contemplating everything in every angle possible.
if you don't know the story, it basically goes as follows; a middle aged man dies in a car crash and is suddenly in nothingness, confronted with a celestial being. through much discussion, the being describes himself as not as god, and that reincarnation is left for this man. the story is also written in 2nd person, very trippy. by the end of the story, he is said to be reincarnated as a Chinese guy in like 600 AD. the idea of being reincarnated back in time doesn't make much sense, and so what is revealed to the man is that every single living person is him. he, his wife, his child, are all reincarnations of the same person. the celestial being tells you (the man) the whole universe is just an egg, for you to mature enough to finally realize the depth of your soul, and become like him. it's kind of profound,
and frankly, it's the only truth that I feel would make mademoiselle want to kill herself. to know that she is torturing "herself" every second would prove she has learned nothing. and why tell anyone else about it? everyone else IS her. the only conclusion would be to kill herself as soon as possible. fuck the ramifications of this world once she leaves it; this WHOLE WORLD was just for her to mature. and by immediately meeting her maker, she'd realize it ever sooner. that's the mindfuck part; I say this WHOLE WORLD was just for her, when "her" is also Anna, and also the butler, and literally everyone else who ever lived. they are all the same in one. that's the truth that she literally cant digest. it's the truth that is too much for her to live with. so she decides to restart, and perhaps meet her maker in a hope to transcend this nurturing ground.
she wishes to finally hatch out of the egg.
@@zzthedon4k I think I know the exact story you’re talking about, but I listened to it on a creepypasta narrative channel. I forgot the name though.
@@atacina The funny thing is that both the Buddhist view and the Christian one explain my own life without fault.
I knew exactly what movie you was going to choose when I read the title before I even clicked on the video. I watched this movie years ago when I was young and it’s the one movie that still haunts me. Never having closure, never knowing what was said still has me curious to the day. Imagine knowing what would happen after death would change everybody’s lives. The same as if all of a sudden we knew Aliens existed and they created us it would throw religion out the window and create chaos.
Aliens definitely exist. There's absolutely no chance that, in this vast universe which is still getting bigger, Earth is the only inhabited planet. I just don't think aliens are particularly interested in us, assuming they even have the ability to reach Earth. They've got their own shit to deal with.
I have not watched this movie, and Idk if I want to. But I find it interesting that mademoiselle seemingly has no hair. It might imply that she is dying of cancer. Fear controls us (humans) and makes us do horrible things. Fearing impending death might be one of those reasons for her actions. Stay alive long enough to find out what awaits.
Notice how the when the society gathers, they're all old. It looks like a church service. Old people really have a thing for religion because death is so close. So the afterlife is of most importance to them.
This is a pretty religious/Christian movie.
@@downsjmmyjones101 to get peoples crucified just because you just want to see what happens in the after life?, talking about playing god
@@downsjmmyjones101 Look at their cars. They're RICH old people most of all. And Mademoiselle doesn't religion. She even makes a point of some martyrs not being religious
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan Just because they say they aren't doesn't mean they aren't. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
the problem with the ending is that if you can't fathom any single phrase that would make you suicidal when put in the same spot as the villain, it just doesn't seem profound but rather purposefully vague to create the illusion of profoundness
I personally think there is no single phrase that could've made an otherwise non suicidal villain, kill herself, so to me it is fully incoherent
and if she was suicidal already, it doesn't matter what she said does it?
The only thing I can think of that would make an absolutely vicious, sadistic person (as described here) off themself would be the knowledge that they were an irredeemable vicious, sadistic scumbag and that if they were still breathing 5 minutes from that particular instant they would be tortured forever in similar manner as they had been inflicting on others- only worse,- giving them that 5 min.(or however long) window to do the right thing.
What else? .
There's no evidence wicked people EvER get punished- save for that they inflict upon themself or that society does IF they're caught.
I like to think Anna tells mademoiselle how gods karma works and how everything she did will be repaid 10x over, Anna dies a saint and mademoiselle ends her own life knowing the answer cost her many lives of torture. The pain Anna expirenced brings her many lives of joy, hence the ending scenes of Anna and her friend in the credits being kids again. Reunited in another life.
😮😅😂👍
Suicide is very bad for karma, so - no.
Donnie Darko is something I watched as a kid and then finally re watched as an adult for Halloween. It's so much more relatable and disturbing then I remember. The ending had so much more meaning and really had me feeling like the people in the movie at the end.
Loved that movie
Excellent film.
Great to see someone else who enjoys Donnie Darko. It's been my favourite film ever since I first saw it all those years ago. It's bittersweet and beautiful.
My favorite movie. Haunting and beautiful. I remember the feeling I had all those years ago when mad world kicks at the end.
@@zachhall5061 That version of mad would was the first song to send me into a panic as a teenager. Made me think of all the worst aspects of life. But now it’s kinda beautiful.
She found out that the meaning of life is to love one another, and she realizes her entire purpose was the opposite of that and the guilt overwhelmed her. Doubt is better than guilt. The denial and guilt made her self delete.
If love is the answer I find that very flawed, that treats hate or violence as not being natural but they're more natural that love
@@martinjugolin2087 We live in a simulation designed to test our ability to love. In a jumping contest, we fight gravity. In a love contest, we fight hate. Gravity is also “natural.”
@@martinjugolin2087 Hate and violence come naturally to us. We have become unnatural. It's not love that is flawed, it's us.
I don't think it's exactly this, but I appreciate you posting it because I don't agree with the video or the top comments. So Something along the lines of "the general idea of what people already think: which means torture and murder negate or ruin an afterlife" is what was said, I'm guessing. The classic heaven tunnel helps. Maybe she said "I'm going to heaven and all of you are f*cked." ...Then why would M. kill herself? Wouldn't she want more time? Nope. It was all done. There was no fixing this; just a life of terror until death. Might as well get onto the next thing and tell the cult to doubt everything so they can at least try to finish what's left of their life before "hell."
@@krisblouch2750 We are in Hell now. That’s what Earth is. It’s a refining fire. Those who live in Hell and don’t prevail over its temptations and trials will be deleted. Atheists shouldn’t be too worried, because they already believe death is deletion. They’re ironically right.
As much as my autism gives me suffering, I don't think I could live without it because I have no idea what it means not having it. Suffering is not bad it is just part of life but only we can give meaning to our own lives and the suffering which comes along with it.
My mom is a horror movie junky, watching anything horror, and Martyr is a movie she always says she will never watch again. I always found it funny because she can watch Hostel, and I Spit on Your Grave movie franchises which are torturous, but that one will always linger. The forbidden knowledge ending always left it a bit more profound.
Has she watched "A Serbian Film"? Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom by Pier Paolo Pasolini?
Martyrs is one of my favourite films but "funnily" enough it took well over ten years before I watched it for the second time. A serbian film is another of those films with extreme implications and probably will make you think afterwards. Its as shocking as Martyrs but its deepness is not easily perceived.
Salò is.... realistic? I recommend to watch it with no spoilers, then afterwards dig a bit about the history of the film, its writer/director and the History period that inspired it.
Sad fun fact, I watched Salò with family at an extremely young age, I was not even a preteen. The 70's were wild and the theories about how to prepare your kids for the outside world, brutal.
I don’t think Salo and Serbian Film are horrors. They’re erotic movies that happen to be violent. The latter having no artistic merit whatsoever, in my opinion
@@saltyabyss3981 The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition.
horror
An intense, painful feeling of repugnance and fear.
A state or condition marked by this feeling: synonym: fear.
An intense dislike or abhorrence.
erotic
Of, relating to, or tending to arouse sexual desire.
Of or pertaining to the passion of love; treating of love; amatory.
Relating to or tending to arouse sexual desire or excitement.
I'm far from trying to kinkshame as I have "peculiar" tastes myself but if something that contains nudity and sex provokes abhorrence or repugnance I would not call it erotic. Heck, 2 girls 1 cup may arouse scat lovers for sure but I would not call it erotic.
Salò and A Serbian film are "a metaphor" about the horrors of war or post war crimes. At least that is a very simplistic take on the creator's intentions. A metaphor as subtle as a kick on the balls but a metaphor nonetheless.
@@azazelreficulmefistofelicu7158 a serbian film fucking sucks
@@hveryaarris5784 Such a well developed argument deserves all my attention, please go on.
The ending is willingly a mistery, a riddle with no answer, and a very clever one, i have to say. The way the last dialog between Madam and the other guy is wrote is just brilliant, so simple, so clean, just a few words that will hunt you for days.
In my opinion, Ana saw something that was at the edge of human understanding, something so different and so far away from everything that mankind have ever imagined, no heaven or hell, no karma or reincarnation, no valhalla or elysian fields.
An afterlife that with it's weird, alien and totally new nature, made Madam "self terminate".
Diego or she was just a selfish bitch and gave them a final "F" you as if to say wouldn't you like to know. Or it could be what you said also. I think it was brilliant to leave it the way he did it leaves so many interpretations open to all who view the movie
Wouldn’t she just be going to the same place? If it was so frightening why would she kill herself
@@Shakenmike117 This lmao
why would she terminate if she was just wierded out??
Ummm... no.
I hope to hear your analysis on the Made In Abyss (anime/manga). I feel that there's something meaningful to take from it. I have not seen any other channels interpret it profoundly yet.
I second this
Oh boy that show makes my skin crawl but I'd love to see a review
Amazing writing. Wish the author could chill just a little with the loli stuff. Im sorry but it does kinda take me out of it at times.
But again amazingly written.
I quit watching after you described his view of the world. Has this guy been outside a Communist pamphlet from the 1920's? Anyone with such a cartoonish view of the world is going to say something cartoonish and therefore it cannot be in the ballpark of "most profound" much less THE most profound.
I have not seen this film, nor will I in honesty, but when this video started I first thought of the Oracle of Delphi.
For those that do not know, the Oracle of Delphi was a woman who was constantly brought to the edge of death for the sake of receiving oracles from Apollo. For a long time, it was a young woman who held the role, until one of the Oracles was raped and they chose older women. This woman was placed on a tripod over a gas pocket and basically asphyxiated as she got high on fumes. Then the priests would translate her words to be transmitted to the seekers. Eventually she died of heart attack from the drugs and stress on her body.
There are two sides looking for meaning in this. The perpetrator and victims. Humans have an innate need to find reason. It doesn't have to be a good reason, but we tend to justify our actions and reactions. Torture is a dominance behavior. It is exerting control over something or someone to feel power.
Martyrs, in general, are the antithesis of domination. The indomitable. Because usually the submission is to something other than the torture. That is why so much respect is given to them across the board. Yes, they eventually succumb to mortal fragility, but something beyond them overcame it.
The problem with the Society is that they want an answer that fits their framework. Everyone does. Actual martyrs exist beyond that frame. Anyone who studies nature could have told them that they were never going to get the answer they wanted.
As weird as this sounds, there IS and IS NOT meaning to suffering. Just a repeat of scapegoat and scapegrace. The used and the users. Those final words would never be what Mms. wanted to hear. Because martyrs are already beyond the control of society. That is ultimately where the profundity lay. Someone that was seemingly under control has already surpassed it. Even if only in that very last moment.
We have researched this, and so far have found no proof or sources on Oracles dying of heart attacks, drugs or asphyxiation. While the comparison might still be apt, it is greatly exaggerated.
Well said
I never saw the movie either, but I knew the premise, I avoided it because I’m not into torture porn films!
But when I heard about the ending, I became curious! I started searching for a video that would give me an overview because I still wasn’t interested in watching the whole movie and I wanted to read a few comments during the process. Most of the comments I read were interesting, but your comment definitely caught my attention because we both haven’t watched the film.
We didn't need something so excessively violent to explore these themes.
I find it ironic that the director thinks that the western world is sick and then produces something that will only contribute to that sickness.
Also I don, t think your argument holds up. Intellectually knowing something is very different from experiencing something. Me reading about skydiving will not make the experience of it any less intense. So knowing your purpose will not dull attaining your purpose. Not to the point of killing yourself, anyway.
I already knew this was martyrs from the thumbnail
Yup, classic👌
Well, since it IS Martyrs, it couldn't have been any other movie xD
There is a weak argument to be made for Fight club having the most profound message, not ending.
If breaking the fourth wall is an actor talking directly to the audience, the fifth wall could be the audience talking about the movie to people who have not seen it.
Normally this happens alot. "Oh my God, you have to go see the Matrix"
But Fight club is the only movie that specifically tells people not to talk about fight club. Using reverse psychology on the audience to then go break the fifth wall, by talking about fight club.
It is not an ending, and it is not a horror, until I throw in this twist.
The main character was diagnosed with testicular cancer. Everything in the movie is a result of a shattered mind. The end is the final moments of his life after he kills himself. A horrific ending one might say. And profound as the only movie to break the fifth wall of the theatre.
Martyrs was like 3 different horror genres in one movies it was truly a masterpiece
What genres exactly?
@@msid7748 If I had to guess; psychological, body and supernatural or lovecraftian horror
Martyrs - a movie for home viewing in the evening with the family.
I also feel like she might have self-terminated to get to the afterlife if what she said was so glorious that she wanted to get there immediately
That what my interpretation as well.
What if Anna trolled her? Lied. People tend to lie when they get tortured to end the pain.
That also could be possible, but then that contradicts all the photos of people near death which is their whole premise for running the experiment.
@@Riprie Yh I mean she was gonna die anyways might as well lie while she is at it, plus there is no reason to tell her the truth.
Thats what i thought too.
She could of only been living for this answer, and once she acquired it. Hit that restart button.
“A Serbian film”, “The tortured”, “The woman” or “Haute tension” are all as brutal as, if not more so than, Martyrs. And there are other movies that go beyond even that, like “Irreversible” or “A l’interieur”. But unlike those I mentioned who make the horror, be it physical or psychological (or both), the main draw, Martyrs tries to add meaning or context to the horror. While it may not completely succeed at that I agree that it has a surprising and profound ending.
Serbian Film, urgh. It's so over the top, edgy and pretentious. To me it feels like a distasteful parody, it completely lacks sublety and depth. Irreversible at least manages to make it clear that its violence needs no absurdity to rely on and that its voyeuristic, exploitative nature is more effective than anything the torture pron genre ever came up with.
I'd also add 'The Nightingale' to the list of movies that go "beyond", though I think that one is legitimately a great movie.
event horizon
I actually really liked the messege and overall philosophical side of the Serbian Film. Yes, it’s not nearly as well-made as martyrs, but I think it also questions existence, especially with the ending
I agree 100%
Serbian film wasn't horror. Just retarded and nasty tbh
This movie was terrible, in a good way. I couldn't stare away from the screen. I love it. I agree with the curiosity of her vision. Also, what does Anna say to Madam?
Edit: I got my answer, more or less.
I can't put in words how much I appreciate this channel. Martyrs is a film that I've known about since 2009 & I've actively promoted it to my fellow movie fans. I've never thought of it weighed against other movies for it's profound nature BUT that ending, the concept & the events of this movie lives in my head rent free. Another memorable thing is that on the DVD version, the director issues a video apology for the nature of the film before it actually plays. Never seen anything like that before or after this movie either, lol.
Anna finds a mutilated girl in the basement - and instead of calling police and/or ambulance tries to wash her and sleeps in the house where the family have being torturing her friend and this girl! This was the f*cling point where I stopped caring about the plot as I understood that the plot was just an excuse for the torture porn that will follow…
Stupid decisions, stupid characters, weak plot that is only needed to justify the gore and violence.
I don’t recommend it to anyone other than snuff lovers…
You can hear Anna whispering to Mademoiselle. It makes me wonder if any audio engineer who knows French was able to boost the volume, cut out some of the background noise, and through a combination of lip reading and making out syllables could actually transcribe part of what she was saying.
You're assuming the line was actually written and recorded.
In reality, the actress probably whispered "What time is lunch, I'm kinda hungry."
I'm French and saw it in theaters. No, nothing to understand there !
Having had a near death experience and having discussed my experience with others who all had similar experiences, I believe Anna told her of the nothingness. You're conscious and know you have senses (can smell, hear faint sounds, know you can taste and speak and see but you can't use said senses) and feel weightless and comfortable but it's not scary. It's like you're sleeping but not; sorta like sleep paralysis. What comes after that, who knows, because all of us came back to life and when we did, we had crazy dreams that were either continuations of the peacefulness or they turned into nightmares. The tunnel they show Anna seeing isn't anything different than what we all experienced before succumbing to our experiences. I believe Mademoiselle killed herself because she felt there was nothing to live for after that and instead of telling others the truth, decided to keep it for herself. Keep doubting, to me, sounds like telling them to keep on trying to find meaning but also sort of like she's laughing in the face of the others and them believing there's anything in the afterlife now that she knows the truth.
"Nothing" is exactly what I think she told Madam... Madam no longer had a Hell to fear by acting on her suicidal ideation.
That’s the best way I’ve heard it described it’s surreal feeling yourself slip away just being unable to connect with your body
This film, to me, seemed like a film that was made entirely to just, "be edgy" and then tack on some sort of meaning afterwards.
In other words, it bored me... It did have SOME cool ideas, but like, you honestly don't need to see a film like this in order to find out life is meaningless..Literally just get a job in a capitalist society and see how fast people will eat each other alive chasing material goods.
True nihilism is not depression, it's more of a slow realisation and withdrawal from things.
This being said, the cinematography of the film was fantastic.
Video starts at 7:00
Absolutely fascinating analysis. This is definitely a movie I brushed off has torture porn for weirdos, so I'm glad you didn't reveal too soon what film you were talking about. Well done.
It would seem the logical answer to “keep doubting” would show that there was nothing after. There was nothing left for her after learning that it all ends and no more existence was enough to end it.
Wouldnt you keep living rather then nothingness?
If I knew there was nothing but oblivion I would rather live a short life of something.
plenty of people really believe nothing comes after death and they don't kill themselves or find it depressing. I think what happened was she got confirmation of the afterlife but also that with her and the society's deeds they are never going to go to the good option. So now her life is tainted with the knowledge there is only suffering waiting for her so she'd rather just go into hell now then be panicked and dreading it for her last remaining years.
What's the movie at 1:39?
@Eldon's Gameplay Archive Found it. Possession (1981)
Great video and so glad i saw it. "Keep doubting" reminds me of Descartes' assertion that we exist because we have the ability to doubt our existence. My interpretation is Ana saw the afterlife, and saw it was empty of any human souls, because we don't really exist at all, in a complete contradiction of Descartes' proof of existence. So in other words, realization of this knowledge essentially "ends" you instantly. What would you do if you suddenly had undeniable proof you weren't real, and were some sort of fake copy of something like life with no real purpose at all? I know what I would do, probably the same thing I already do, as little as possible without becoming too uncomfortable. Sure that works for me and probably for some others but would that be enough to keep carrying our civilization forward into the future if everyone sort of embraced meaninglessness? I don't think it would. I think it would be the end. Who knows, maybe this is how some pre-historic civilizations ended, not with a great war or cataclysm, but with a sudden burst of realization that nothing really matters? The Christian monks' described Sloth as one of the 7 deadly sins for a good reason, not deadly in that it sends one to hell, but more literally, it brings about an end. To be more clear I use the older definition of sloth meaning sorrow and not laziness. Ana saw the afterlife, and saw it was not for us. We things, whatever we are, gain only the indifference of creation, only the abyss.
have a nice day
Interesting take, but also incorrect.
@@gibbletronic5139 How so? Explain before doing a gotcha or owned moment.
@@gibbletronic5139 the entire point of this movie is that no theory is right and no theory is wrong because we don't know the meaning behind the ending just like noone knows for certainty if there is a god heaven and hell / afterlife is real too. Uncertainty is the entire point.
I personally think there is no afterlife...but in THE MOVIE you can think either or and still be a valid argument. Either she said there's no afterlife and living in ignorant bliss and doubt is better than knowing the truth or else it's pointless....or she saw the afterlife blah blah...or she lied to make her kill herself somehow as revenge.
Any theory is correct to some extent as long as you separate your personal beliefs with life from fiction.
Is it bad that I deduced which film you'd be discussing from the thumbnail? No matter. I first came upon Martyrs in the Spring of 2009. I was a junior in college and was part of student organization wherein I lived with a lot of other students. Please note that this was the Golden Age of internet shock media a la "2 Girls, One Cup", "BME Pain Olympics", et al., and I'd developed a reputation as a purveyor of such works onto unsuspecting fellow students.
Needless to say, I was and am a great fan of this film. I immediately told all of my buddies that I'd found "the most f****d up movie" I'd ever seen to that point. Many of them watched it and also became great fans. Sure, the depictions of physical anguish are great but it was the insidious metaphysical/theological conundrums set forth that make this film truly great. Not too many pieces of media exist that can cause 18-22 year old boys to think about their lives five minutes into the future much less consider the potential ramifications of their actions upon, their station within and their responsibility toward society at large.
Personally, I believe that Anna did witness a glimpse of what comes after and described it to Mademoiselle in divinely inspired detail. I also believe that this was not the first time Mademoiselle had received such terrible news. They didn't want proof of an existence beyond this one wherein one receives a portion of peace directly proportionate to the suffering they experienced in life; The group requires utter oblivion as it's the only answer they can fathom when faced with the question of the utility of human suffering.
Nietzsche wrote that "God is dead. [...] And we have killed him." Some people fail to grasp that Nietzsche didn't necessarily view this notion as a net benefit to mankind as the truth of it carries a destructive potential that's exponentially greater than if it were false. Seems to me that the group may have fallen into that trap and believed that nothing can exist beyond what they're capable of understanding. Such a philosophy is a two-edged sword as it necessitates constant exploration and study; To seek out those anomalies and explain them away is the highest goal.
The fatal flaw of this line of thinking lies within it's dichotomous structure: Black and White. Light and Dark. Yin and Yang. The existence of a gray area would both prove the redundancy and necessitate the complete and utter destruction of Black and White: A concept which Mademoiselle demonstrated perfectly.
My interpretation of Martyrs’ Ending was that Annabelle saw that the afterlife was so horrific, and that the knowledge of what happens in the afterlife was so vile, that Mademoiselle chose to take her own life rather than let anyone else know of what awaited them.
That's a good theory
but wouldn't killing herself just bring that horrific afterlife about sooner? the one thing I never understood with ANY interpretation of this movie's ending (not one yet), is that suicide would ever be a valid reaction. if there was nothing afterlife, killing yourself doesn't really do anything. you might as well tell a few people to shut this shit down or move on before ending it all. even if you were some sort of horrible person, which mademoiselle seems more of an "ends-justify-the-means" rather than pure torture for torture's sake, telling this horrible truth to others might be more cathartic than taking it with you to the grave?
then there's the other angle; what if there is an afterlife but it's horrifying... why the fuck would you then bring about the afterlife sooner? in mademoiselle's case, the moment she fired that bullet, she would've awoken to this horrible hellish afterlife, and for what? even if you wouldn't want to tell anybody, I don't get why you'd just end it all right there and then. additionally, what could be so horrible anyway? that hell awaits? the religious symbolism is not lost on those old folk in her camp. they already have a heavy feeling that hell exists. and if anything, people like them (ESPECIALLY MADEMOISELLE) deserve to go there. oh hey, terrible torture lady, when you die you go to hell. that's what made her commit suicide? really? reinforcing the belief people have held for thousands of years made her want to end it all?
what if the afterlife is 'hell' for every single person who perishes. just a pure terrible endgame for every human ever. even then, i'm pretty sure mademoiselle relished her shot at heaven anyway with what she was doing. no, I believe the ending of the movie is exactly opposite to those held by many. I believe the vision was actually really good, heavenly even. perhaps not for everyone, as that would be kind of cheesy, but what if; some form of heaven only existed for those who held great works in this life. upon hearing this, mademoiselle would probably be dying to get there ASAP (literally), which is why she ended her life. what makes more sense; hell awaits you, so you should end this life right here right now OR heaven awaits you, so get the fuck over there right now.
@@zzthedon4k the reason she killed herself was so that no one else had to bear the burden of knowing the horrors and existential terror of what exists after death, as what Annabelle told her was far too awful for anyone else to know.
@@Tarnished-bn5gq makes zero sense, she tortures people to death but has a conscience to "save people from anxiety"
@@ShacoPL it’s moreso saving people from others having to know what’s after death, as what is after death is too horrible to know.
Dude u were on point!!!!! The best analysis so far. The “keep doubting” in the end really explains a lot, and your theory makes all sense. Before I tought her “keep doubting” were a passive aggressive way to judge them for not believing it. But maybe was just a real apeal to them KEEP DOUBTING cuz it’s necessary. Bravo.
This movie scarred my soul. I want to think that Anna saw something so incomprehensible and pure, that everything in this mortal world does not matter.
I swear this channels content gets even better every time. Keep up the quality content!