It's a tricky one, they are grounded by the earth and it only makes sense that the earth absorbs any energy, or deflects it. Try different frequencies as some may penertrate more than others.
Interestin speriment Mike, and the comment from Cal too. Be interesting to see, buried as you have just showed, resting on the ground, slightly elevated and then what comes from the element itself? Still loving your gizmo's.
What amazed me the most is .... How you managed to make this video - split screen and everything !! Live feed from camera on iPhone etc .. Seriously - I imagine grounds plains straight on the ground act as a counterpoise and hence force the RF into the radiator ? Do you use covered wires for radials ? - what if anything would happen if you used bare wire and buried the radials ? If in time these radials rusted away to nothing , how would effect the far field pattern ?
I got an extremely high reading from my gas boiler. When I called out the service guys they found nothing wrong but replaced the pump anyway. The new pump had significantly lower readings and when tested the old one was starting to fail badly.
We saw your TS890 on September 2019 and never to be seen again on this channel! Why? Such a brilliant radio I'd imagine you'd have done videos making contacts, demonstrating the radio on receive, etc. Please more TS890 videos. You seemed to genuinely love it when you first received it.
Great video Mike. Quite a scary thought as you say the iPhone charges next to the bed as does mine and sometime my iPad as well. I need to get a meter like yours. I sometimes wonder about WiFi access points always on too. M7SFV
Interesting and thanks for posting. I did wonder if the results would differ if you tested on a lower frequency. Say 60m? The readings next to the phone were interesting also. Makes me think about Ofcom's new EMF conditions only applying above 10W EIRP.
Well done Mike, I think I know what inspired this, I watched the RSGB video this morning too. Like you I am not sure what to conclude from those readings, it is very thought provoking. I guess in simplistic terms if we take an example of maybe 1a of RF current into the vertical that same current shared between perhaps 16 radials is only 60mA each. I have a feeling that due to the small size of the entire test-meter relative to the wavelength that the field is too uniform to measure the electric field. Food for thought, I suspect the case for above ground radials will be very different....
Interesting. In my day job I deal with ionising radiation - it is only this new hobby that gets me into non ionising radiation. I am wondering if the "source" geometry has something to do with this. We agree I think that the emissions are "low". If the radial is a line source then placing the monitor at any one point very close means that it is "seeing" (detecting) a small fraction of the line source RF? So the detect more you would move away - say 2m from the line source. Then the detector is "seeing" more of the "source" as it radiates outwards. However, the problem is that you have now increased the distance. Assuming that some modified form of the inverse square law is present, then as you move away (in order to "see" more of the signal) you are then too far away to measure anything? Or something like that? The iphone example given is more like a "point" source so the detector is "seeing" all of the RF present? Just some thoughts... lol .. Great video as always ...
@@mike-M0MSN Ok, so you basically tried to find out if it makes any difference to bury the radials right?i am not sure if i fully got it. Correct me please if i am wrong: Lets consider an antenna being an "LC". For a ground plane we can consider the "ground" aka "radials" being one plate of the "C", right? By burring it one might introduce several unpredictable effects you gonna change the dielectrikum (so saying) one might also introduce several parasitic inductive effects and one might also introduce some side paths, even short out - depending on the nature of the "ground". So if the question is "are buried radials good or bad?" the answer is :"depends" :)
@@pulponair I think Mike is more interested in the radials because in UK we are now having to prove that our antennas are EMF “safe” and ensure they are a specific distance from any person. If the radials give off RF like the elements then that would be of great consequence for these antennas - they’d need a huge “exclusion zone” on the ground.
yall had dome good exersize 🤣 now put that meter on the graveyard and call for ghosts 🤣🤣🤣🙈🙈🙈 Are there any silent key ham operators here ? Meter goes : .... . .-.. .-.. --- -- .. -.- . - .... .. ... .. ... .--- . ..-. ..-. .. ..- ... . -.. - --- -... . .- .... .- -- --- .--. . .-. .- - --- .-. -... ..- - .. - --- ..- -.-. .... . -.. - .... . ....- -.- ...- --- -. - .... . .- -. --- -.. . --- ..-. -- -.-- --. ..- ---.. ....- -... .- -- .--. .-.-.- 73s from PD0ROH 🤣🤣🤣🙈🙈🙈 A hint for the no morse code readers... do not touch it 🤣🤣🙈🙈🤪🤪🤪🤪
Good one Mike. I think I'll sell my ic7300 and get the dirtiest Chinese power supply I can and hook it up to the neighbours fence.
It's a tricky one, they are grounded by the earth and it only makes sense that the earth absorbs any energy, or deflects it. Try different frequencies as some may penertrate more than others.
Interestin speriment Mike, and the comment from Cal too. Be interesting to see, buried as you have just showed, resting on the ground, slightly elevated and then what comes from the element itself? Still loving your gizmo's.
What amazed me the most is ....
How you managed to make this video - split screen and everything !! Live feed from camera on iPhone etc ..
Seriously - I imagine grounds plains straight on the ground act as a counterpoise and hence force the RF into the radiator ?
Do you use covered wires for radials ? - what if anything would happen if you used bare wire and buried the radials ? If in time these radials rusted away to nothing , how would effect the far field pattern ?
You guys are so polite. ;)
I got an extremely high reading from my gas boiler. When I called out the service guys they found nothing wrong but replaced the pump anyway. The new pump had significantly lower readings and when tested the old one was starting to fail badly.
We saw your TS890 on September 2019 and never to be seen again on this channel! Why? Such a brilliant radio I'd imagine you'd have done videos making contacts, demonstrating the radio on receive, etc. Please more TS890 videos. You seemed to genuinely love it when you first received it.
I still love it. 😍
@@mike-M0MSN Brilliant! I'm sure I speak for many that would love to see more of it as you make great quality videos. 73!
Great video Mike. Quite a scary thought as you say the iPhone charges next to the bed as does mine and sometime my iPad as well. I need to get a meter like yours. I sometimes wonder about WiFi access points always on too. M7SFV
No not really, the chargers EMF is really quite insignificant.
I would have done it largely the same way however I would have considered Dimitri's Law when testing the inverse Gauss readings.
Very interesting Mike. Food for thought 🤔
Thanks Ian.
Thanks Mike, very interesting experiment.
This is a interesting subject
Interesting and thanks for posting. I did wonder if the results would differ if you tested on a lower frequency. Say 60m? The readings next to the phone were interesting also. Makes me think about Ofcom's new EMF conditions only applying above 10W EIRP.
We will have to see..
Meter over a steel tape will skew any readings but very interesting subject as we are encouraged more and more to use radials
Tape was cloth/plastic not steel, but thanks for the thought.
Well done Mike, I think I know what inspired this, I watched the RSGB video this morning too. Like you I am not sure what to conclude from those readings, it is very thought provoking. I guess in simplistic terms if we take an example of maybe 1a of RF current into the vertical that same current shared between perhaps 16 radials is only 60mA each. I have a feeling that due to the small size of the entire test-meter relative to the wavelength that the field is too uniform to measure the electric field. Food for thought, I suspect the case for above ground radials will be very different....
mg is milligauss, a measure of the purely magnetic field. You can typically pick up a 30mg reading near electrical wall wiring or even lamp bases.
Just buried mine this afternoon I watched this and thought oh no !!
Best thing to do is bury them, Yes all radials will radiate but the amount of V/M is greatly reduced due to grounding.
@@mike-M0MSN mine are buried, we have very good ground conductivity here in East Anglia too...
"in one continuous shot." I see you've encoutered UK amateurs before :-D
Interesting. In my day job I deal with ionising radiation - it is only this new hobby that gets me into non ionising radiation. I am wondering if the "source" geometry has something to do with this. We agree I think that the emissions are "low". If the radial is a line source then placing the monitor at any one point very close means that it is "seeing" (detecting) a small fraction of the line source RF? So the detect more you would move away - say 2m from the line source. Then the detector is "seeing" more of the "source" as it radiates outwards. However, the problem is that you have now increased the distance. Assuming that some modified form of the inverse square law is present, then as you move away (in order to "see" more of the signal) you are then too far away to measure anything? Or something like that? The iphone example given is more like a "point" source so the detector is "seeing" all of the RF present? Just some thoughts... lol .. Great video as always ...
Nicely explained Mark.
Just wondering if the radials are there to form the other half of the Vertical 1/4 wav they should radiate into the ground.?
.
I think they act like a mirror.
hmm, i don't really get the conclusion. would you mind to explain?
Yes all radials will radiate but the amount of V/M is greatly reduced due to grounding.
@@mike-M0MSN Ok, so you basically tried to find out if it makes any difference to bury the radials right?i am not sure if i fully got it. Correct me please if i am wrong: Lets consider an antenna being an "LC". For a ground plane we can consider the "ground" aka "radials" being one plate of the "C", right? By burring it one might introduce several unpredictable effects you gonna change the dielectrikum (so saying) one might also introduce several parasitic inductive effects and one might also introduce some side paths, even short out - depending on the nature of the "ground". So if the question is "are buried radials good or bad?" the answer is :"depends" :)
@@pulponair I think Mike is more interested in the radials because in UK we are now having to prove that our antennas are EMF “safe” and ensure they are a specific distance from any person. If the radials give off RF like the elements then that would be of great consequence for these antennas - they’d need a huge “exclusion zone” on the ground.
200W You need to get new worms. Try making a wormer compost bin. Your ground plain will improve??
I already have more worms that the average garden....lol
So, it looks like they do radiate. Into the ground.
Yes all radials will radiate but the amount of V/M is greatly reduced due to grounding.
Not looking good for ground mounted antennas.
it’s not looking so bad either, the grounding reduces the amount of radiated V/M
I choose not to comment as I would expose my lack of knowledge concerning ground plane functionality...........
yall had dome good exersize 🤣 now put that meter on the graveyard and call for ghosts 🤣🤣🤣🙈🙈🙈 Are there any silent key ham operators here ? Meter goes :
.... . .-.. .-.. --- -- .. -.- . - .... .. ... .. ... .--- . ..-. ..-. .. ..- ... . -.. - --- -... . .- .... .- -- --- .--. . .-. .- - --- .-. -... ..- - .. - --- ..- -.-. .... . -.. - .... . ....- -.- ...- --- -. - .... . .- -. --- -.. . --- ..-. -- -.-- --. ..- ---.. ....- -... .- -- .--. .-.-.-
73s from PD0ROH 🤣🤣🤣🙈🙈🙈
A hint for the no morse code readers... do not touch it 🤣🤣🙈🙈🤪🤪🤪🤪
You're measuring the ground return current
Possibly, conclusion: Yes all radials will radiate but the amount of V/M is greatly reduced due to grounding.