"Mhara Gal harms your Gal Vorbak" bold of you to assume I run Gal Vorbak instead of thunderhammer command squads like literally everyone else Mr. Circle!
I remember my Perturabo with 4 Iron circle bodyguards against my friends Horus and his Justaeren terminators fighting off at the center to see who can survive the longest. We were rolling so bad that the game ended and both were still standing (albeit at diminished force than they were initially) we didnt even put any other units for support as it was such an epic duel between two primarchs and their chosen bodyguard/elites. But yeah IronCircles are the "You play them because they're cool" models.
Huh? Iron Circle are basically Dreadnoughts-lite with bodyguard rules. They are only a little derpy at hitting stuff, but we all know that it takes multiple turns of full squads shooting lascannons to take down a dreadnought. They are there to keep Perty alive. Your anecdote shows how bad Justaerin are though.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 right but for its points cost, and how derpy it is at hitting things let alone shooting. U might as well take a talon of contemptor dreadnoughts. It's a walking expensive bodyguard. That's all it is. And for 150 per model, ud rather take the dominators.
I seriously can’t wait for the “All the Problems with Thousand Sons, and how to fix them” video. I so want to play them, but not if they’re going to be an unenjoyable experience for me.
Small correction, perhaps it's the Australian gravis power fist, but all dreadnaughts I've seen have s9 power fists, only the chainfist is s10. This gives the Osirian dreadnaught a purpose since it can actually instant death t5 units using a brutal weapon. Perhaps not enough to redeem it, but at least it's a niche.
True, it would also be useful against battle hardened or high toughness. Against a few elite terminators, robots or dreads that could be reasonable. Dreads are common enough having a dedicated response isn't too bad
If you give it Biomancy, Raptora and all the Melta it's actually not bad. 4++, T8, and the Force Blade goes up to S12 if you pass the psychic check. Problem is it's 285 points to do all that.
Hey, Macca- I have really been enjoying these unit discussion videos, as other than army and conversion showcases, these are probably the type of content that I enjoy most. This comment isn’t really on topic, though it is about tabletop wargaming in a way. One of my old favorite songs is one that’s easy to find here on TH-cam, and it’s called “Lots Of Little Soldiers” by Barry Dransfield. While it’s originally meant as an anti-war song that came out either in the 1960s or 1970s, on it’s surface he’s singing about playing a historical wargame that his father introduced him to. The lyrics talk of going down to the shop to buy soldiers and cannons, and if you want to link it even more to Warhammer, he also talks about flyers ruining the game, and blast-template weapons. It’s amazingly relatable, and is definitely worth listening to if you’re curious. You may have some viewers who are familiar with the song already, and I find it pretty cool that in the video for it, there are many comments from people talking about Warhammer. Anyway, that’s it- I just thought that you or some of your viewers might find it interesting.
I've found Iron circle can perform quite well, ironically not in IW, but in AL, combined with the WLT that gives the entire unit +1 to hit against any particular LA on a master of the forge. It's not amazing, but hitting elite unites on a 4+ rather than 3+, especially dreadnoughts, really edges the maths into much better territory. Still doesn't work well into custodes though, and they are still worse than spamming dread, but it does do some work in making them a decent deathstar-lite that pulls it's weight, especially if there's other armoured targets to avoid being targeted down by lascannons. They really should be WS5 base. Tragically, they're probably one of the better automata around due to how much mechanicum automata got dumpstered this edition.
100% agree with you that the Castellax-Achaea are basically useless, but all Thousand Sons Infantry and Cavalry get the Psyker sub-type so even if all your Character sub-types get offed, a regular bog-standard tactical can stop them from auto-charging to their doom. No one should take them as they are though. If you really want the model take a Praevian and say you're using normal Castellax instead, then you can also stick Thaumaturgy on the Praevian while he hangs out with them. As someone else already pointed out, the normal Gravis power fist is S9 Brutal 3, so it can't instant death T5 models, something the Gravis force blade can do. Biomancy woul be wasted on the Osiron though since the force blade is a fixed S9, S11 with the Achaean force check, and can't go to S12. The Magus can be a gigantic pinning jerk with Telepathy though, since Dreads can fire all equipped weapons. Edit: Watching your videos out of order and just got to your mention in the infantry video about the regional rule differences, so hey who knows about the force blade. Hopefully the Psyker sub-type rule on all TSons isn't regional though, yikes.
quick idea with the Achean automatas (yes they are trash but hear me out): You can ally a primary detachment of TS with the deep strike rite of war with a secondary detachment with the Achean configuration, so you have your striking force deep striking and this guys siting in your deployment zone objectives. You can use them to allocate perills of the warp and cast some psyquic powers and weapons trough them so it's a bit of a use. But they are overpriced as hell They should be WS 4 and 3 attacks and like 100pts for being usable i think.
@@youhell2328 280pts to just sit around and maybe soak wounds is an awful investment though, that's same price as a decently equipped breacher squad that can soak its own wounds with its 5++.
@@youhell2328 Agreed, but you did start by suggesting that there's a use for them as is with the double RoW setup, which is what I was replying to. WS4 A3 at the current price would probably be good enough, their melee weapon is by far their best. I do keep considering allying in Word Bearers and using Dark Brotherhood to buff them into that state, but if you're going that way you might as well just go Praevian + Vorax and get something that's good immediately instead.
I'm honestly amazed the Iron Hands don't have any entries on this list for Heresy. I'd say it's an oversight but the only change to their special units in HH 2.0 is to remove their most fun characters lmao
Biggest issue with the Domitar-Ferrum is that dreadnoughts exist as an alternative. They look absolutely incredible though. Castellax-Achea have the same issue but worse (but also look incredible).
The Ksons dread having firing protocol infinity due to being a dread means that with telepathy (or whatever power with a ranged weapon) it can fire its main gun, the discipline gun, and the aether lightning to just rinse out firepower (or in telepathy's case, near auto pin anything not immune to pinning since it punches through stubborn). Giving it Biomancy for either on reaction or on your turn T8 is also great, especially if you go double force blade. Raptora on top for it to be reliably T8 4++ and just run around as that little freak while up close. just having more access to biomancy and telepathy than everyone else is what makes Ksons good after all.
Love the iron circle but they need ws 5 and int 4 and its still odd that they cant shield perty despite being bigger with huge shields but tiny marine companions can lol
Domitars get 4+ inv when there are 2 or more of them and with Perturabo they get 5+ damage mitigation. I don't think it makes them very good but I think it's worth mentioning. I would speculate that they are there just so the Loyalist Primarchs or Custodes can't kill Perturabo too quickly. Also I am pretty sure, that if Spooky Word Bearers Dreadought was Loyalist, he would be having a buffing bubble, not a debuff one. Sorry about that last comment, I realy don't like how the rules favor loyalists. Don't get me wrong I never really favored one or the other. I relly liked the idea of the civil war and I wanted to collect armies or warbands from both sides, but the way the rule are written I will just pass on some of them, because for me personally they seem either trash or OP.
Thousand Sons, Raven Guard, and Salamanders need total rewrites. Possibly Sons of Horus too. It really seems like they stopped trying for the last few legions. Even Alpha Legion is a bit derp (though certainly has some likely "accidental" strong points), with Headhunters and Lernaeans being a bit disappointing. Just massive "quality off a cliff, punch an Ultramarine and Imperial Fist" vibes from the last 5 legions.
I was thinking of running some concussive weapons to knock down the ws of enemy elites to help my iron circle. Only trouble is the only concussive weapons are the shotgun, which has too low strength against dreadnoughts, graviton weapons, which will only wound on a 6 for anything s5 or greater, or neutron weapon which seems like an over investment. Though I’d be curious if anyone has other ideas
@@SacredGumby I'm a big fan of the flesh and metal aesthetic since I read the old Grey Knights Dark Mechanicus book so I like it. It's obviously not for everyone but it definitely hits that "possessed monstrosity" look I want from a daemon dred.
"Mhara Gal harms your Gal Vorbak" bold of you to assume I run Gal Vorbak instead of thunderhammer command squads like literally everyone else Mr. Circle!
I remember my Perturabo with 4 Iron circle bodyguards against my friends Horus and his Justaeren terminators fighting off at the center to see who can survive the longest. We were rolling so bad that the game ended and both were still standing (albeit at diminished force than they were initially) we didnt even put any other units for support as it was such an epic duel between two primarchs and their chosen bodyguard/elites.
But yeah IronCircles are the "You play them because they're cool" models.
I use one as a stand-in for a Relic contemptor in 40K, since same base size adn relative height
I love iron circle, I know dominators are likely more efficient but I want big robots
@@toawing big Stompy robots!
Huh? Iron Circle are basically Dreadnoughts-lite with bodyguard rules. They are only a little derpy at hitting stuff, but we all know that it takes multiple turns of full squads shooting lascannons to take down a dreadnought. They are there to keep Perty alive.
Your anecdote shows how bad Justaerin are though.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 right but for its points cost, and how derpy it is at hitting things let alone shooting. U might as well take a talon of contemptor dreadnoughts.
It's a walking expensive bodyguard. That's all it is. And for 150 per model, ud rather take the dominators.
I seriously can’t wait for the “All the Problems with Thousand Sons, and how to fix them” video. I so want to play them, but not if they’re going to be an unenjoyable experience for me.
Small correction, perhaps it's the Australian gravis power fist, but all dreadnaughts I've seen have s9 power fists, only the chainfist is s10. This gives the Osirian dreadnaught a purpose since it can actually instant death t5 units using a brutal weapon. Perhaps not enough to redeem it, but at least it's a niche.
True, it would also be useful against battle hardened or high toughness.
Against a few elite terminators, robots or dreads that could be reasonable. Dreads are common enough having a dedicated response isn't too bad
If you give it Biomancy, Raptora and all the Melta it's actually not bad. 4++, T8, and the Force Blade goes up to S12 if you pass the psychic check. Problem is it's 285 points to do all that.
Thanks for the series you are doing, really enjoying it.
Hey, Macca- I have really been enjoying these unit discussion videos, as other than army and conversion showcases, these are probably the type of content that I enjoy most. This comment isn’t really on topic, though it is about tabletop wargaming in a way. One of my old favorite songs is one that’s easy to find here on TH-cam, and it’s called “Lots Of Little Soldiers” by Barry Dransfield. While it’s originally meant as an anti-war song that came out either in the 1960s or 1970s, on it’s surface he’s singing about playing a historical wargame that his father introduced him to. The lyrics talk of going down to the shop to buy soldiers and cannons, and if you want to link it even more to Warhammer, he also talks about flyers ruining the game, and blast-template weapons. It’s amazingly relatable, and is definitely worth listening to if you’re curious. You may have some viewers who are familiar with the song already, and I find it pretty cool that in the video for it, there are many comments from people talking about Warhammer. Anyway, that’s it- I just thought that you or some of your viewers might find it interesting.
I absolutely love your Horus Heresy videos. Please make more of them. Long Live Magnus the Red!
I've found Iron circle can perform quite well, ironically not in IW, but in AL, combined with the WLT that gives the entire unit +1 to hit against any particular LA on a master of the forge. It's not amazing, but hitting elite unites on a 4+ rather than 3+, especially dreadnoughts, really edges the maths into much better territory. Still doesn't work well into custodes though, and they are still worse than spamming dread, but it does do some work in making them a decent deathstar-lite that pulls it's weight, especially if there's other armoured targets to avoid being targeted down by lascannons.
They really should be WS5 base. Tragically, they're probably one of the better automata around due to how much mechanicum automata got dumpstered this edition.
I love how you can double certain characters of Horus heresy into dnd
Thanks for the video man, was enjoyable and informative to watch
The castilax is still purdy though, probably buy it as a mechanicum bodyguard and get rid of the 1k sons icons
Great video! It serves as a reminder as to why my LGS is sticking with 1.0 Mournival rules.
But the Iron Circle are cool models! That should count for something...
100% agree with you that the Castellax-Achaea are basically useless, but all Thousand Sons Infantry and Cavalry get the Psyker sub-type so even if all your Character sub-types get offed, a regular bog-standard tactical can stop them from auto-charging to their doom. No one should take them as they are though. If you really want the model take a Praevian and say you're using normal Castellax instead, then you can also stick Thaumaturgy on the Praevian while he hangs out with them.
As someone else already pointed out, the normal Gravis power fist is S9 Brutal 3, so it can't instant death T5 models, something the Gravis force blade can do. Biomancy woul be wasted on the Osiron though since the force blade is a fixed S9, S11 with the Achaean force check, and can't go to S12. The Magus can be a gigantic pinning jerk with Telepathy though, since Dreads can fire all equipped weapons.
Edit: Watching your videos out of order and just got to your mention in the infantry video about the regional rule differences, so hey who knows about the force blade. Hopefully the Psyker sub-type rule on all TSons isn't regional though, yikes.
quick idea with the Achean automatas (yes they are trash but hear me out):
You can ally a primary detachment of TS with the deep strike rite of war with a secondary detachment with the Achean configuration, so you have your striking force deep striking and this guys siting in your deployment zone objectives. You can use them to allocate perills of the warp and cast some psyquic powers and weapons trough them so it's a bit of a use. But they are overpriced as hell They should be WS 4 and 3 attacks and like 100pts for being usable i think.
@@youhell2328 280pts to just sit around and maybe soak wounds is an awful investment though, that's same price as a decently equipped breacher squad that can soak its own wounds with its 5++.
@@coarsesand if they costed 100pts as i said i think that could be playable
@@youhell2328 Agreed, but you did start by suggesting that there's a use for them as is with the double RoW setup, which is what I was replying to.
WS4 A3 at the current price would probably be good enough, their melee weapon is by far their best. I do keep considering allying in Word Bearers and using Dark Brotherhood to buff them into that state, but if you're going that way you might as well just go Praevian + Vorax and get something that's good immediately instead.
@@coarsesand well it's a use, not a good one but a use nonetheless xddd
I'm honestly amazed the Iron Hands don't have any entries on this list for Heresy. I'd say it's an oversight but the only change to their special units in HH 2.0 is to remove their most fun characters lmao
Gimme back my commander pask you bastards!
What happened to the Salamanders special dread? He was in the legends pdf.
He's a special character, not a regular unit.
Biggest issue with the Domitar-Ferrum is that dreadnoughts exist as an alternative. They look absolutely incredible though. Castellax-Achea have the same issue but worse (but also look incredible).
The Ksons dread having firing protocol infinity due to being a dread means that with telepathy (or whatever power with a ranged weapon) it can fire its main gun, the discipline gun, and the aether lightning to just rinse out firepower (or in telepathy's case, near auto pin anything not immune to pinning since it punches through stubborn).
Giving it Biomancy for either on reaction or on your turn T8 is also great, especially if you go double force blade. Raptora on top for it to be reliably T8 4++ and just run around as that little freak while up close.
just having more access to biomancy and telepathy than everyone else is what makes Ksons good after all.
What about the night lords big bros
Love the iron circle but they need ws 5 and int 4 and its still odd that they cant shield perty despite being bigger with huge shields but tiny marine companions can lol
Domitars get 4+ inv when there are 2 or more of them and with Perturabo they get 5+ damage mitigation. I don't think it makes them very good but I think it's worth mentioning. I would speculate that they are there just so the Loyalist Primarchs or Custodes can't kill Perturabo too quickly.
Also I am pretty sure, that if Spooky Word Bearers Dreadought was Loyalist, he would be having a buffing bubble, not a debuff one. Sorry about that last comment, I realy don't like how the rules favor loyalists. Don't get me wrong I never really favored one or the other. I relly liked the idea of the civil war and I wanted to collect armies or warbands from both sides, but the way the rule are written I will just pass on some of them, because for me personally they seem either trash or OP.
Thousand Sons, Raven Guard, and Salamanders need total rewrites. Possibly Sons of Horus too. It really seems like they stopped trying for the last few legions. Even Alpha Legion is a bit derp (though certainly has some likely "accidental" strong points), with Headhunters and Lernaeans being a bit disappointing. Just massive "quality off a cliff, punch an Ultramarine and Imperial Fist" vibes from the last 5 legions.
I was thinking of running some concussive weapons to knock down the ws of enemy elites to help my iron circle. Only trouble is the only concussive weapons are the shotgun, which has too low strength against dreadnoughts, graviton weapons, which will only wound on a 6 for anything s5 or greater, or neutron weapon which seems like an over investment. Though I’d be curious if anyone has other ideas
I think the iron mecha make a great distraction carnifex... for AL
I wish iron circle where better. I'll remain jaded that they are just less good. Hell it actually seems like the dominators are actually pretty solid
Umm how do you see half of a dice and say two thirds like lol where did the exstra 15% get thrown in
Iron circle is what talking about
Higtong on 4+ is 4-5-6 and missing on 1-2-3 thats half not two thirds
5+ would be two hirds not 4* geo thirds would mean only higging on 2 out of 6 doce results
I think its a shame the speeder has no options, Id really like to play some with twin lascannons, and for rule of cool I’d take a volkite one
I like how after several failed attempts to summarize Dark Angels rules in the past few rounds of episodes, Macca has simply quit trying.
The Mhara Gel does also benefit from being an absolutely stunning model too.
You meant stunningly hideous right? That thing is ugly as F.
@@SacredGumby I'm a big fan of the flesh and metal aesthetic since I read the old Grey Knights Dark Mechanicus book so I like it. It's obviously not for everyone but it definitely hits that "possessed monstrosity" look I want from a daemon dred.