The Neutral Game in Fighting Games 101
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- #guiltygear #guiltygearstrive #fightinggames
During Guilty Gear XRD, Lord Machabo wrote an article that was translated by GG Sweden on the basics of neutral. This article is referenced a lot, but since I get a lot of questions about it, I decided to go through the important parts of the article and break things down a little further.
For another perspective (and GG videos on Faust, GG wiki updates, etc), peep lord @Krackatoa video here - • Neutral.mp4
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Everywhere I look, everywhere I go, I see Rock Paper Scissors.
Play sg we have a 4th option: wtf
@@noobtuber10 there’s a 5th too, it’s pulling the power cord when you play against peacock and can’t get in
Rock paper scissors is the core of all video games basically.
Neutral was one of those concepts that genuinely felt like a black box where I could grasp the general shape but never the full picture. The Machabo article opened my mind a few years back and now I understand the push/pull that occurs during a match much better. Shoutouts to shinjen baiken for the translation.
Looking forward to more of these for sure.
Hey man, could you make a video on neutral in fighting games (maybe even focusing on strive?). I’m finding it hard to wrap my head around 😊😊😊
@@funkuro that would be so cool!
If you're interested in fighting games and manga, I recommend 1F no Kishi, a sports manga about a FGC goon being pulled into fencing, and where we see the links between fencing and fighting games as 1 vs 1 fighting disciplines.
The latest chapter is specifically about this topic of RPS situations
As someone who formerly fenced in high school and currently playing fighting games, this sounds like it was made for me lol! Thank you for sharing it, I'mma look it up!
Looked it up, currently reading it. Thank you, this manga is cookin
Thank u for this I've wanted an interesting manga and this sounds awesome
@@thelemonadestandman Same here!! Exact same thing. 😄
This is one of the big reasons I’m happy I started with platform fighters. Neutral is what dominates those games for the most part, so learning it in them before transferring to playing more 2D fighters and tekken made it a lot easier
Same. People heavily underestimate how similar Smash Ultimate is to street fighter for instance. Seriously. I went from Smash Ult to Street Fighter and after getting used to the movement, i could convert so much from smash to sf. It just looks different, the concepts are literally the same.
I've always felt describing ate-waza as 'walk up and hit them' to get it across best. if I'm looking to whiff punish you, you beat that by walking into range and hitting me (no whiff). then I beat that by pre emptively filling space, which you beat by whiff punishing, which I beat by walking into range and hitting you, which you beat by filling space, which I beat by whiff punishing, which you beat by walking into range and hitting me, which
i was just thinking i needed to work on my neutral and i saw this video on my recommended! great timing LK!
The "catching people that are waiting" move is run up throw on Ky, or the like. Its usually the 'belligerent' callout option that SPECIFICALLY deals with someone playing, passively, typically when they're looking for a whiff punish.
LK did demonstrate that your passive play can include layers (such as the backdash in response to aggressive forward movement) but from a suuuuuper baseline layer one standpoint, run up f.s with Sol, pull up j.d with Goldlewis, clone-fukyo with Nago, or the like are all great options. These are pull up party starter options, and often the reason why certain moves are called 'neutral skips' if they can cover the screen with no opportunity to whiff AND start pressure or immediately mix your opponent.
ate waza doesn't have to be belligerent, it can be something that aims to hit a waiting opponent safely or something that leads to meaningful offense
During the intro I thought to myself "I really need an LK Fire Emblem tier list" and then you bring up the weapon triangle.
I am conflicted on Engage (outside of the artstyle). Some weird quips and decisions regarding information and progression, looking at you Ch. 11/12.
10/10, this helped me fully understand what I am doing. I now understand how much fighting game reading lies ahead of becoming 'good'
this video was extremely informative for me 🙏 looking forward to the rest of the videos in this series!
The neutral game is when you don’t scare, I don’t scare. When one of us scare, that’s when we’re not in neutral anymore. Until then, it’s all neutral. 🧐
That's actually kinda right. If you keep your cool and watch your opponent you have a better chance of being successful.
Can you do a video on defensive techniques? I just started playing fighting games (Strive) a little over a year ago and as I continue to approach the higher level I am realizing more and more that just trying to block/challenge everything on reaction isn't alaways the best. I recently learned that there is defensive techniques beyond just doing everything on reaction buy I am unable to understand and implement them as of yet.
uhh, beyond block/challenge there's fuzzy defense. this is blocking for a little bit, then doing either a throw, mash, jump, back dash, block. it's taking advantage of the throw invul frames in the game from wake-up and blockstun. fuzzy block is blocking low for a bit then high, however against i-no it's better to flip this. you'll need to grind out the timing in training mode. set a training dummy to start with sweep to get a hard knockdown on you, then have them do throw on your wake up or a strike on your wake up. if done right you should never get thrown. for fuzzy block do the same with a character like leo. fuzzy block works because highs are usually slower than lows so you're essentially waiting for the low to come, if it doesn't go high.
there's also faultless defense. this pushes the opponent out. so it's good against stubby normal characters like gio or sol. you pretty much wait for them to whiff then you punish them. takes meter, but it's pretty effective. it also stops dash momentum and prevents chip.
instant blocking is a seldom used option that's good in certain match ups like ky or gio. it removes pushback, so you can throw the opponent if they're close enough. the timing is tough since I think there's only a 2 frame window, but it's better to think of it like a rhythm game. you reset to neutral before you block the attack. there are certain situations like ram's rekka's or nago's f.sss that have easier timings.
instant block faultless defense takes both instant blocking and faultless defense and fuses them together. the main thing is that the push back is really far compared to standard faultless defense. it's usually used while defending safe jumps because their timings are usually the same.
the counter play to all of these nifty options are as follows: fuzzy block, jump, and backdash are defeated by going for lows. like gio doing 2s, if you try to fuzzy jump on the first hit of 2s, you're not blocking low on the second hit and thus you get hit. fuzzy throw is defeated by doing a backdash or jump on the opponent's wake-up or in your blockstring. since it's a delayed action at a specific timing, if it misses timing the throw will come out and you'll get hit. fuzzy mash is defeated by doing delayed meaties, so they blow up to frame traps. faultless defense is defeated by using longer, delayed normals that'll reach the opponent or just going for wake-up throw. if an opponent is doing faultless defense, that means they're looking to whiff punish after you're pushed back, not throw. instant blocking is defeated by changing up your timing since, like I said, the window is only 2f so easy to miss. for instant block faultless defense it's the same or, like with faultless defense, go for a throw or a delay normal that'll reach.
also, for an additional layer you can delay the fuzzy timings to make the opponent second-guess your defense.
anyways, sorry for the long read. hope it helps.
@@AchedSphinx thanks this very helpful!!
there are vids on this channel where I go over mission mode, mission mode in strive is VERY good
I love kind of content I look back and think about how long it even took me to understand what neutral was no one calould explain it well and so I enjoy digesting this kind of stuff
Neutral is by far the most difficult thing to understand for me. You can always learn the fancy combos, but neutral is so important and difficult to grasp.
looking forward to more neutral videos!
LK with twists would go crazy
Neutral is so essential, I think about it even in PVE games, like DMC5 and Monster Hunter 👀
(And I suck at it in all of them.)
As always, another great vidoe from LK.
Sankusumi my beloved
Undershooting>Overshooting>Whiff Punish?
yeah, I'm also don't understand why he used kavasaschimachi level of namings
Can you do a video breaking down oki in gg strive?
Frame 😊😊 timing
I don't know why but link to xrd guide seems broken
Where is that Baiken shirt from? I want one
Maybe Teespring?
Got it as a gift actually so I dunno 😅
Hey alright
LK, help me out here--How do I neutral in rizz?
My man, clean your room
Da noooooch
Ayo
10/10, this helped me fully understand what I am doing. I now understand how much fighting game reading lies ahead of becoming 'good'