Its so sad that Some folks think that a lack of honesty is acceptable...unfortunately not only kidding themselves, but raising the expectations of the in inexperienced shooters, to the point they could feel disappointed at their ability. Stay as you are Vin & keep up the great work.
Hi Vincent, it was me that requested the group testing. I shot 20 and 30 shot groups at 40 yards. I done exactly as you suggested, shot at a aim point and just let the group develop. I actually tested my groups at 8 / 16/ 24/ 32 and 40 yards. Now I only need to shoot 8 yards and can predict my group at any distance from this. As I said, I shot 31 different pellets all through my TX200 and my group dispersion got bigger every time with 20 and 30 shot groups. All the best mate.
Hi Karl, my apologies my friend. I think it's a great idea to shoot a large number of shots and see how the group develops, I'm genuinely curious. I know from my own testing if your aim point gets impacted after several shots the group will open up as the cross hairs wander (I call this groups spiralling). Mind you this is when the shots are freehand or bench rested but not clamped. A springer either hard rested or clamped will produce erratic groups, the very nature of the shot cycle will see to that. But thank you kindly for your suggestion, I think this sort of thing will help other shooters as well as indeed myself 👍👍👍
Hi Vin, i agree with you on these topics. I've been an avid shooter for the last 40 years and i can't except some of the videos I see as honest. I've been shooting my HW 97 a lot and working on my technique, it's an outstanding rifle. For now I won't be doing any bragging beyond 40 yards with it though.
Vin Thankyou …found the video and took a look…I’m with you and I think most of us are.i personally found that slugs for me sub 12 are only good in the impact with a slug liner…we have 15 rifles and none of them like slugs…a shame as it could fool certain people into believing this is possible.
Hi Vin , I'm really glad I come across your channel, lot of sense, definitely talk a lot of sense, nice country accent like myself. Any how , just took up shooting after 30 years ex army, So bought a Weihrouch HW77K and a cheep BSA Essential 3-9x40 scope , I can honestly say, completely different ball game shooting a springer, harder I think, the recoil back and forth, you know what I mean, I'm shooting targets on a range at the moment, but I did have a go at a fellas splatter target at 100 meters, wind was about 6/7 mph.it took me 3 shots to find the impact after that I hit it 3 of of five more shots , no grouping , probably 9" if anything, and the report I could of eaten a cheese sandwich between the report, I'm looking forward to seeing you give it a go 👍🏻
I would think that the consistency of the pellets would be a big factor in the dispersion at the target. Even if you tested indoors to remove any wind and clamped the rifle to remove any movement, you will still see an increase in dispersion the more shots you shoot. Tillys Gunstocks on TH-cam does a lot of pellet testing and is interesting to watch.
I know exactly which video you are talking about He was in the middle of a field to start with but when the shots were fired you could hear his neighbours arguing, that was a back garden job and bullsh## You are totally correct Vin. As I said I knew which video you were talking about and I’ve just watched it again, a bit of a bullsh## Harry eh.
Aww I'm saddened to read that Johnathan as I thought I'd found a replacement for the .17 HMR, but joking aside I'm going to try to see if I can replicate his results or if not what the difference is in my results. Generally I've found slugs aren't the best in sub 12 rifles...I'll keep you guys posted if I get one stuck in the barrel 😉👍👍👍
I've tried slugs through my rifles. For starters, you can lose around 2 foot pounds of energy due to the friction of the slug contact area down the barrel, plus Turkish barrels are heavily choked, which isn't ideal, especially on low powered airguns. My best result was a 1cm group with 5 zan slugs at 50 yards, better than I have had with pellets. I did this with my Falcon Prairie. I think I have it on one of my videos, just go to my TH-cam page. Its there somewhere. Must have been a fluke. Pellets are usually a lot more accurate than slugs. It may be a good idea to buy some slug sample packs. Finding slugs that suit the barrel is the hardest part. I've even had them get stuck in the barrel of one of my rifles, so I haven't used them through that one since. A friend of mine was consistently hitting an apple on our 103 yard target frame with 13 grain JSB Knockout slugs, but he had tuned them to 17 foot pounds. That's probably the only way to get the job done consistently. Looking forward to your results. Keep up the good work. Mark H.
Thanks for the comment buddy. I've a few slugs that I can try so will give them all a go and see what happens. I want to try to keep an open mind and see if slugs are worth trying in a sub 12 even though my experience tells me otherwise 👍👍👍
@@keith6930 Yes, excuse the Pun, but slugs are definitely hit or miss. If you can find a good one, then stick to it. The BC is supposed to make them better at distance, and in bad weather, but in sub 12 foot pounds it's not that easy, as they prefer to shoot above 800 feet per second.
@@vincentenglish8489 They work in some rifles better than others, but are designed for high power, rather than sub 12 foot pounds. It's a shame our power limits aren't the same as the French at around 14.7 foot pounds (20 joules). That would make all the difference, when using slugs. You can tune a rifle and slug to close to the 12 foot pounds, but then the pellets would be doing close to 14 foot pounds, so you'd need to de-tune the rifle afer use.
@@airgunsniper-elite7385 yeah this is the problem tuning a sub 12 rifle as a dedicated slug gun in the UK, basically you've converted an air rifle into a section 1 firearm because you can guarantee the police if they ever tested your rifle wouldn't be doing so with slugs. 5 years is a long time to contemplate the error of your ways and a lifetime ban of possessing any airguns/shotguns/firearms is a lot longer 👍👍👍
Interesting stuff look forward to the videos....I've seen slugs shot to 100yrds + but it tends to be with a FAC rifle with a dedicated slug barrel and there's a definite pause between shot and strike 👍
I wonder if the timing of impact was due to editing? I reckon an 8.44gr .177 with initial fps of 745 would take just over 0.6 of a second to travel 100m with huge drop. Never shot slugs through my sub 12s, heard differning opinions and i reckon the type of barrel may come into play. Thaks for sharing.
.22 17.8gr moving around 550fps... no editing just straight scope cam footage. Trajectory like a bowling ball tossed under arm I reckon... however I'm willing to try it out as whatever else it's made me curious. 🤔😉
@@vincentenglish8489 would make for an interesting video, i reckon time to impact would be similar. Interested to see how much drop. i will ahve to get my balistic app out!!
Hi vince when you do the slug test don't forget to ask the farmer for a barn door 😅😊also would fatigue be an issue look forward to these videos thanks alan😊
Hi Vin, if your Kral NP-02 is anything like mine your biggest problem soon will be getting it to shoot above 10 ft/lbs or shoot at all. Having given up on two local gunsmiths, I’ve come to the conclusion that I shall have to find the time to rebuild the thing from the trigger up. Will e-mail you details when done. Pity, there is so much good about this gun but its flaw, I think, is that it is a pistol with a second tank stuck on the back. Be warned; slugs may finish it off. The onset of hammer stutter to begin with. Regards, Baz.
AHH that's good to know Baz, thank you kindly for sharing. It's a shame really as these Turkish PCPs have so much potential. I have to say I got the Kral as an experiment to see how it would stand up to hard use, I'm still yet to be convinced a PCP is better than a decent quality springer 👍👍👍
hi vince ,i bought the same gun 3weeks ago in 177 and had to send it back for repair ,some how a pellet got shredded and made its way into the firing system and it would not cock ,i did have trouble loading it on the odd occasion i think the mags are a bad design , just a heads up mate ,ATB
Hi buddy, I think you're spot on in regards to the mags. They aren't very robust at all , but then again I've found that on most Turkish guns it always seems to be mag issues that let the gun down. 👍👍👍
I knew what video you were talking about straight away, he is sponsored by pro hunter slugs, i tried some in .177 sub 12,they kept getting stuck in the barrel
You will always find shooters the world over with their ' Fisherman's tales ' best to take it with a pinch of salt. One of the best riposte's to this type of video was a well known you tuber who posted him and his mate popping balloons at 300 yards with a springer. So many comments of ' wow great shooting ' etc It wasn't till hours later that someone realised it was April 1st 😂
Looks fairly genuine to me he isn't shooting groops just trying to hit a lollipop he states in the vid that the scope cam is home made and if you look in the comments section he also says the gun is in a clamp and he has shims under the rear scope mount. Nothing to get to excited about think your just over analysing it 👍 no harm in querying others results tho .
Fair comment my friend. My thoughts are there's a discrepancy between gun firing and slug strike. .17 HMR firing at 2600fps plus has a longer flight time than what appeared in the video...🤔 you are correct he said in the comments it was clamped but said in the video he was using a tree stump 🤔🤔 however there can be lots of things to explain away discrepancies so having the same rifle and slugs I'd like to see if I can replicate the results 😉
Do a 100 yard ply..eg 3..5 mm thick then clay.to replicate bone skin....u should roughly be able to hit a 8.8.object .in good condition at 100 yards.....just a idea....
Yeah that's a good idea indeed. Once the slugs arrive I'll give them a try. Sometimes it's good to cut through all the nonsense that gets peddled on social media and see genuine real world footage/results. I'd like to see the chronograph results at 100 metres too. Thanks for the idea Robert 👍👍👍
@@roberthowe2910 yup I agree totally buddy, I can try both pellets and slugs. I'm really curious to see if I can replicate the results of the other chap.
Hmm if it was the one I watched he said it was a sub 12fpe.... my problem is if nothing is ever challenged then nonsense can perpetuate. Also Peter even if it was say a 30fpe rifle the time lapse between discharge to impact is a tad bit suspect.
That's exactly the reason i don't look at those b.s vids anymore Vince. I've seen a guy from the UK with a pretty well known channel doing scope cam pest control with a HW97. He is showing the HW97 in the beginning of his video and shooting with a PCP. When he fired the "97" the crosshair was hardly moving and even the sound was from a PCP.. When i exposed him in the comments with facts and proof he went crazy. He was the "expert" and me the fool 😆 That's why there are only a few airgun channels left i'm looking at. Fooling someone else is not ok but fooling yourself is just pathetic. Cheers Buddy!
Hmm I know what you're saying Ron. I can only imagine that some guys are under pressure to produce content for their channels so things they post may not be entirely true. Unfortunately for them there are lots of very experienced shooters from all around the world that can spot things that don't quite add up. I was a bit disappointed by the video I watched because I was looking forward to seeing if these slugs actually performed in a sub 12. I guess I'll find out when my ones arrive 🤔😉👍👍
@@rapalaron6348 ok thanks, I’ll have to find it. I never thought about people faking springer videos. So I did a little test on what recoil looks like and sounds like on a springer with a scope cam. I posted it on my channel. The results were interesting.
I had to go and find this one to watch for myself I checked the posted date too just to see if it was an April fool but no! If I could consistently hit a lollipop at that distance I’d be bouncing around like Tigger but the guy stayed calm with no emotion change like for him it was an everyday occurrence, it’s hard to call him a liar but something is definitely not right about this video.
Its so sad that Some folks think that a lack of honesty is acceptable...unfortunately not only kidding themselves, but raising the expectations of the in inexperienced shooters, to the point they could feel disappointed at their ability. Stay as you are Vin & keep up the great work.
Hi Vincent, it was me that requested the group testing. I shot 20 and 30 shot groups at 40 yards. I done exactly as you suggested, shot at a aim point and just let the group develop. I actually tested my groups at 8 / 16/ 24/ 32 and 40 yards. Now I only need to shoot 8 yards and can predict my group at any distance from this. As I said, I shot 31 different pellets all through my TX200 and my group dispersion got bigger every time with 20 and 30 shot groups. All the best mate.
Hi Karl, my apologies my friend. I think it's a great idea to shoot a large number of shots and see how the group develops, I'm genuinely curious. I know from my own testing if your aim point gets impacted after several shots the group will open up as the cross hairs wander (I call this groups spiralling). Mind you this is when the shots are freehand or bench rested but not clamped. A springer either hard rested or clamped will produce erratic groups, the very nature of the shot cycle will see to that. But thank you kindly for your suggestion, I think this sort of thing will help other shooters as well as indeed myself 👍👍👍
Hi Vin, i agree with you on these topics. I've been an avid shooter for the last 40 years and i can't except some of the videos I see as honest. I've been shooting my HW 97 a lot and working on my technique, it's an outstanding rifle. For now I won't be doing any bragging beyond 40 yards with it though.
Smoke, glass, mirrors and fakery are the key tools on most social platforms.
Vin Thankyou …found the video and took a look…I’m with you and I think most of us are.i personally found that slugs for me sub 12 are only good in the impact with a slug liner…we have 15 rifles and none of them like slugs…a shame as it could fool certain people into believing this is possible.
Hi Vin , I'm really glad I come across your channel, lot of sense, definitely talk a lot of sense, nice country accent like myself. Any how , just took up shooting after 30 years ex army, So bought a Weihrouch HW77K and a cheep BSA Essential 3-9x40 scope , I can honestly say, completely different ball game shooting a springer, harder I think, the recoil back and forth, you know what I mean, I'm shooting targets on a range at the moment, but I did have a go at a fellas splatter target at 100 meters, wind was about 6/7 mph.it took me 3 shots to find the impact after that I hit it 3 of of five more shots , no grouping , probably 9" if anything, and the report I could of eaten a cheese sandwich between the report, I'm looking forward to seeing you give it a go 👍🏻
I would think that the consistency of the pellets would be a big factor in the dispersion at the target. Even if you tested indoors to remove any wind and clamped the rifle to remove any movement, you will still see an increase in dispersion the more shots you shoot. Tillys Gunstocks on TH-cam does a lot of pellet testing and is interesting to watch.
Yeah I enjoy watching Tilly's Gunstocks, he does a proper job and his results are interesting and genuine. 👍👍👍
I know exactly which video you are talking about He was in the middle of a field to start with but when the shots were fired you could hear his neighbours arguing, that was a back garden job and bullsh##
You are totally correct Vin. As I said I knew which video you were talking about and I’ve just watched it again, a bit of a bullsh## Harry eh.
Aww I'm saddened to read that Johnathan as I thought I'd found a replacement for the .17 HMR, but joking aside I'm going to try to see if I can replicate his results or if not what the difference is in my results. Generally I've found slugs aren't the best in sub 12 rifles...I'll keep you guys posted if I get one stuck in the barrel 😉👍👍👍
Missed the argument first time around
I've tried slugs through my rifles. For starters, you can lose around 2 foot pounds of energy due to the friction of the slug contact area down the barrel, plus Turkish barrels are heavily choked, which isn't ideal, especially on low powered airguns. My best result was a 1cm group with 5 zan slugs at 50 yards, better than I have had with pellets. I did this with my Falcon Prairie. I think I have it on one of my videos, just go to my TH-cam page. Its there somewhere. Must have been a fluke. Pellets are usually a lot more accurate than slugs. It may be a good idea to buy some slug sample packs. Finding slugs that suit the barrel is the hardest part. I've even had them get stuck in the barrel of one of my rifles, so I haven't used them through that one since.
A friend of mine was consistently hitting an apple on our 103 yard target frame with 13 grain JSB Knockout slugs, but he had tuned them to 17 foot pounds. That's probably the only way to get the job done consistently.
Looking forward to your results. Keep up the good work.
Mark H.
Thanks for the comment buddy. I've a few slugs that I can try so will give them all a go and see what happens. I want to try to keep an open mind and see if slugs are worth trying in a sub 12 even though my experience tells me otherwise 👍👍👍
Best I managed at 50 metres was with 13gr H&N, 5 shot group less than a 1p but wouldn't be able to replicate it if I tried 😂
@@keith6930 Yes, excuse the Pun, but slugs are definitely hit or miss. If you can find a good one, then stick to it. The BC is supposed to make them better at distance, and in bad weather, but in sub 12 foot pounds it's not that easy, as they prefer to shoot above 800 feet per second.
@@vincentenglish8489 They work in some rifles better than others, but are designed for high power, rather than sub 12 foot pounds. It's a shame our power limits aren't the same as the French at around 14.7 foot pounds (20 joules). That would make all the difference, when using slugs. You can tune a rifle and slug to close to the 12 foot pounds, but then the pellets would be doing close to 14 foot pounds, so you'd need to de-tune the rifle afer use.
@@airgunsniper-elite7385 yeah this is the problem tuning a sub 12 rifle as a dedicated slug gun in the UK, basically you've converted an air rifle into a section 1 firearm because you can guarantee the police if they ever tested your rifle wouldn't be doing so with slugs. 5 years is a long time to contemplate the error of your ways and a lifetime ban of possessing any airguns/shotguns/firearms is a lot longer 👍👍👍
Sounds like someone can't tell the difference between 20 yards and 100 yards.
Interesting stuff look forward to the videos....I've seen slugs shot to 100yrds + but it tends to be with a FAC rifle with a dedicated slug barrel and there's a definite pause between shot and strike 👍
Hi Vins, unfortunately I couldnt hear you.Sound level very low.
I wonder if the timing of impact was due to editing? I reckon an 8.44gr .177 with initial fps of 745 would take just over 0.6 of a second to travel 100m with huge drop.
Never shot slugs through my sub 12s, heard differning opinions and i reckon the type of barrel may come into play.
Thaks for sharing.
.22 17.8gr moving around 550fps... no editing just straight scope cam footage. Trajectory like a bowling ball tossed under arm I reckon... however I'm willing to try it out as whatever else it's made me curious. 🤔😉
@@vincentenglish8489 would make for an interesting video, i reckon time to impact would be similar. Interested to see how much drop. i will ahve to get my balistic app out!!
💯 Vincent, the only slugs I’ve had good results in sub 12 are the mako ones (designed for sub 12)
Hi vince when you do the slug test don't forget to ask the farmer for a barn door 😅😊also would fatigue be an issue look forward to these videos thanks alan😊
Hi Vin, if your Kral NP-02 is anything like mine your biggest problem soon will be getting it to shoot above 10 ft/lbs or shoot at all. Having given up on two local gunsmiths, I’ve come to the conclusion that I shall have to find the time to rebuild the thing from the trigger up. Will e-mail you details when done. Pity, there is so much good about this gun but its flaw, I think, is that it is a pistol with a second tank stuck on the back. Be warned; slugs may finish it off. The onset of hammer stutter to begin with. Regards, Baz.
AHH that's good to know Baz, thank you kindly for sharing. It's a shame really as these Turkish PCPs have so much potential. I have to say I got the Kral as an experiment to see how it would stand up to hard use, I'm still yet to be convinced a PCP is better than a decent quality springer 👍👍👍
I have no desire or need for any PCP one spring rifle is all I will ever want.
Spend your money on one good scope and lots of quality pellets.
Also the magazine tend to be more like sales reps,i know they got to make money, but i don't order them anymore
hi vince ,i bought the same gun 3weeks ago in 177 and had to send it back for repair ,some how a pellet got shredded and made its way into the firing system and it would not cock ,i did have trouble loading it on the odd occasion i think the mags are a bad design , just a heads up mate ,ATB
Hi buddy, I think you're spot on in regards to the mags. They aren't very robust at all , but then again I've found that on most Turkish guns it always seems to be mag issues that let the gun down. 👍👍👍
I knew what video you were talking about straight away, he is sponsored by pro hunter slugs, i tried some in .177 sub 12,they kept getting stuck in the barrel
I have a sneaky suspicion I might need to keep a cleaning rod handy...😂😂
You can simplify this, my sub 12,firing 10.34 hr pellets at 40yds as a noticeable delay in impact, let alone a heavy slug at 100m!!!!!!
What calibre is your NP02?
Unfortunately too many sales reps who think they are clever with the B'S
You will always find shooters the world over with their ' Fisherman's tales ' best to take it with a pinch of salt.
One of the best riposte's to this type of video was a well known you tuber who posted him and his mate popping balloons at 300 yards with a springer. So many comments of ' wow great shooting ' etc
It wasn't till hours later that someone realised it was April 1st 😂
so your saying my vid on you tube of me using fishing boilies in my catapult shooting them through a 1ich steel plate at 200yards is false ? 😅
😂😂😂 sounds and looks legit to me buddy 👍👍👍
Looks fairly genuine to me he isn't shooting groops just trying to hit a lollipop he states in the vid that the scope cam is home made and if you look in the comments section he also says the gun is in a clamp and he has shims under the rear scope mount. Nothing to get to excited about think your just over analysing it 👍 no harm in querying others results tho .
Fair comment my friend. My thoughts are there's a discrepancy between gun firing and slug strike. .17 HMR firing at 2600fps plus has a longer flight time than what appeared in the video...🤔 you are correct he said in the comments it was clamped but said in the video he was using a tree stump 🤔🤔 however there can be lots of things to explain away discrepancies so having the same rifle and slugs I'd like to see if I can replicate the results 😉
Yes that will be a interesting video it's a long old way 100 yds even with subbies in a long rifle . 👍
I do smell bull###t sometimes 😂
Do a 100 yard ply..eg 3..5 mm thick then clay.to replicate bone skin....u should roughly be able to hit a 8.8.object .in good condition at 100 yards.....just a idea....
Yeah that's a good idea indeed. Once the slugs arrive I'll give them a try. Sometimes it's good to cut through all the nonsense that gets peddled on social media and see genuine real world footage/results. I'd like to see the chronograph results at 100 metres too. Thanks for the idea Robert 👍👍👍
@@vincentenglish8489 do it with pellets..slugs in sub 12..r generally crap...more of a chance with pellets....of hitting targets....
@@roberthowe2910 yup I agree totally buddy, I can try both pellets and slugs. I'm really curious to see if I can replicate the results of the other chap.
Well I'm new at it Vin but that sounds like BS even to me. Was he a rep for the gun or slugs 😂
Aiwaa 😘💕👍👍
Hello vince .dont bother other channels .i think that fellow shot a full power gun..not a 12 ftp gun
Hmm if it was the one I watched he said it was a sub 12fpe.... my problem is if nothing is ever challenged then nonsense can perpetuate. Also Peter even if it was say a 30fpe rifle the time lapse between discharge to impact is a tad bit suspect.
That's exactly the reason i don't look at those b.s vids anymore Vince. I've seen a guy from the UK with a pretty well known channel doing scope cam pest control with a HW97. He is showing the HW97 in the beginning of his video and shooting with a PCP. When he fired the "97" the crosshair was hardly moving and even the sound was from a PCP.. When i exposed him in the comments with facts and proof he went crazy. He was the "expert" and me the fool 😆 That's why there are only a few airgun channels left i'm looking at. Fooling someone else is not ok but fooling yourself is just pathetic. Cheers Buddy!
Hmm I know what you're saying Ron. I can only imagine that some guys are under pressure to produce content for their channels so things they post may not be entirely true. Unfortunately for them there are lots of very experienced shooters from all around the world that can spot things that don't quite add up. I was a bit disappointed by the video I watched because I was looking forward to seeing if these slugs actually performed in a sub 12. I guess I'll find out when my ones arrive 🤔😉👍👍
@@vincentenglish8489 I'm looking forward that video Vince 😁👍
Ron, what channel? Was the video a night hunt against rats?
@@AGDavidHi David, It was pigeons if i remember well
@@rapalaron6348 ok thanks, I’ll have to find it.
I never thought about people faking springer videos. So I did a little test on what recoil looks like and sounds like on a springer with a scope cam. I posted it on my channel. The results were interesting.
I had to go and find this one to watch for myself I checked the posted date too just to see if it was an April fool but no!
If I could consistently hit a lollipop at that distance I’d be bouncing around like Tigger but the guy stayed calm with no emotion change like for him it was an everyday occurrence, it’s hard to call him a liar but something is definitely not right about this video.
Hi Vin, Have you seen the video where they split playing cards or burst balloons at 100 metres. Amazing if you fall easily for B.S.
Haven't seen that video...there's some amazing videos out there for sure, some that need to be taken with a pinch of salt too 😂
you might not be the way this is the way
can be done
Yes I think it can indeed be done. I'm curious as to the group sizes at that range, the trajectory/drop and the slug flight time. 👍👍👍