@@teodoricoterry839 yep it drives me nuts when the news reqorters say it's just a small plane. so I zoomed in on the n number upside down and picked it out and goggle it and got lucky.
Does not have to be an engine out VMC roll. It can be a Torque roll from many things even with two good running engines and it can even be an accelerated roll with both good running engines. All you need to have is a Prop pitch failure on one engine or accidental prop pitch level change on one engine. The NTSB often negligently ignores these two realities in this type of twin failure. They always look to see if the engine was running, if it was, they blame pilot. But a sudden oil control governor failure in one engine can also cause it. Not oil loss, but some oil control valve failures can cause the pitch to go suddenly to low speed. . Lots of people don't realize a governor can have a failure that makes it go to full pitch, and prop HUB can also fail in a way to drive a prop to full pitch. The tensioner spring failure. NTSB never looks for these things.
@@Hawka-Loogy One of the most common issues that causes a pilot to crash in a twin is engine out. This is often called VMC roll by pilots, but it is technically a torque roll. However, there are cases when the engine keeps running, and there is no engine out, but there is massive sudden torque roll from the prop pitch activating to full on and the pilot is instantly dumbfounded. He thinks he is losing a engine because RPM drops , rightfully so. But due to pitch increase the engine loosing RPM is also the one with suddenly more torque and the plane pulls opposite to what the pilot corrects for. The engine he thinks is going ou is actually pulling more. The pilots corrections are opposite to what they should be, This causes the plane to yaw Even more. He has no engine out. This will roll a plane over. A sure sign this may have happened is a plane that rolled over as this one did. a regular MC roll is not going to do that with the pilot attempting to correct properly. In these type failures All the pilot has to go by is huge loss of rpm. These type failures show no sign of the engine not running in the crash analysis. This is often why the NTSB will see in the post-crash analysis an engine that looked like it was running. Thats when they decide to blame the pilot and start looking for any other excuse, they can blame on him. Constant speed Props can fail into a mode of full pitch. There are many ways the oil diverter valve can malfunction in a manor to drive the prop to full pitch. The NTSB never ever looks for these type failures.
When you lose an engine in a piston twin like this Cessna 414, you lose more than 80% of performance. He should have immediately lowered the pitch attitude and looked for a place to land straight ahead if he is below 1000 feet. If you are already at pattern altitude, then he can look for return to the airport but that is very risky unless you are very proficient with your piston twin.
You take off at Vsse, get the bird cleaned up and at Vyse (blue line) ASAP rocky. If you lose an engine, yes, you lose 80% of your performance. But if you do your preflight planning the way you should, you’d have planned for the bird to climb on one engine. And never, EVER make an intersection takeoff in a piston twin. Use every foot that is available. Fly out of trouble. Or, stay on the ground and wait for better conditions. It’s one thing to ditch a Bonanza at 60 knots or less. It’s a whole nuther thing to ditch a cabin class twin going 50 percent faster and at least twice the weight. You’re looking at 4.5 times or more kinetic energy to dissipate in a 414 than a light single. You probably won’t walk away from it.
@@wtcirrus I don’t think you can climb on 1 engine in piston twins. I suppose at sea level and lightly loaded, maybe. Anything conditions outside that, you are lucky if you can maintain your altitude. Otherwise all of your other comments are good points. Pre flight planning is not only a good idea, they are a mandatory must. Always plan for the unexpected so when it happens, they are not unexpected.
@ArizonaAirspace multiengine trainers are flown every day on one engine, not all of which are flown from sea level airports. And yes, they will climb on one engine. In training, if you lose an engine immediately after takeoff, you’re expected to get cleaned up, identify, verify, and secure the dead engine. Then you get to pattern altitude, enter the pattern, and execute a landing. It’s done every day, and not only at sea level airports. At least that’s how it was done when I got my multiengine rating forty years ago.
For an after take-off engine failure when you still don't have enough altitude for more choices, its smarter to just shut down both engines and glide/land straight ahead.
@@darthheretic129 Dan has devoted his life to general aviation safety. Can you back up your assertion with examples of Dan being a reckless operator. One example will do.
These small planes are crashing all over the United States. What is going on? Don’t these private pilots know how to fly a plane? Or maintain one? What’s the problem here? This is common… why?
So tough seeing another Twin go down I feel sometimes people get their license but dont stay competent enough to fly them in emergency situations " not saying this pilot wasnt competent " but very sad loss of life you need decision altitudes where if u get an engine out u commit to forced landing , or above you Power up, Clean up, Identify, Verify, Rectify and then return to land and if ur ever in a vmc roll pull the power and lower the nose and look to put her down Every flight you do should be a practice for a what if it goes wrong here, where would I go , what do I do, Rehearse it on the ground, in your bed, in the car. The privilege of a license comes with an immense amount of responsibility...
The crash site is at: McKinney - North Texas Natural Select Materials 3403 County Road 317 McKinney, TX 75069 And is southeast of the departure end of Runway 36. The aircraft, N414BS a Cessna 414 twin engine plane, departed on Runway 18 but failed to fly the plane straight ahead after experiencing an engine failure. There are open fields south of Old Mill Road and north of Wilson Creek where the pilot could have flown the plane straight-in to an off-field landing. It looks as though the pilot was instead attempting to turn around and head back to the airport. An engine out condition, coupled with slow airspeed, low altitude, and turning typically lead to a stall and uncontrolled crash like this one. The description of the aircraft after takeoff indicates the one engine was not producing power. The plane stalled, rolled over (a Vmc roll) and impacted the ground inverted. Vmc stands for Velocity Minimum Control. It’s the minimum airspeed at which an aircraft can maintain control with one engine inoperative.
@@nuclearrabbit1 I have never heard that. Every 414 pilot I have known reports it is not an airplane to be flown on one engine and is a handful on one engine and the pilot must be exceptional on this aircraft with engine failure especially on takeoff & climout.
@@TecTrends I was simply making an observation. I could be wrong, but in a light twin, if you lose power from an engine after takeoff and there’s no more runway ahead to land on, the gear has to come up, does it not? To reduce drag, to keep the aircraft under controlled flight, or to belly in on a flat surface if it cannot continue to fly.
@@Andrew-13579 yeah me too, my point was that we stick to the landing gear out while takeoff, because depending on the handbook the gear helps reduce impact forces. Also while takeoff your hands are on the throttle probably. As the witness said altitude was very low and it flipped while an assumed attempt to turn back was made. Maybe gear only comes in for this plane at a higher altitude, no way he got it in and out while in the flip. So your observation is totally correct and shows what probably happened. Depending on his airfield, as the report states, he could have gone straight maybe. Then it could make sense to retract gear as you say, but only if there is no other way to reach’s crash site. For me best option would be continue straight and leave gear out, or slowly climb with 1 remaining engine with gear in before turn
White-out is snow, brown-out is sand/dust. But yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I've requested for that many times in my career and they never have a problem doing it.
When I was a firefighter, we would wet down the landing zone if we had time. That engine had enough water on it to do it without a tanker or other resources.
Pretty sure that pilot is a lot more concerned about his crews safety than we are. If he sensed an imminent crash, I'm quite sure he would've pulled up.
@@UncleKennysPlaceit’s very common actually, it has killed a lot of people over the years…a lot of these pilots aren’t getting the currency training they need or lack the skill to fly a twin…
Yeah I doubt that a lot of the money went to actually helping people. It’s a nice tax-free way to fly for a hobby. The 414 isn’t really good for much of anything other than a rich man’s toy. A 402 or Navajo or Caravan or 206 are working airplanes.
Do some math. Check crashes per year from 1980 to 2019. Then 2020 until now. It doesn't take genius to see why all these planes, jets, helicopters are going down
@@stevefisher2553 What was local is now national. How much are small aircraft crashes up versus up versus takeoffs? You have been blinded to reality. TH-cam
twin Cessna 414 N414BS for those who are curious.
Thanks for the clarification. Was wondering about the retractable gear and did not see that it was a twin. Now it makes sense.
Those of us who when remember when journalism was WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, and HOW thank you.
@@teodoricoterry839 yep it drives me nuts when the news reqorters say it's just a small plane. so I zoomed in on the n number upside down and picked it out and goggle it and got lucky.
@@visualverbs It still is. along with opinions. It always has been.
Loss of power on one engine then VMC roll. Hit upside down. Classic VMC roll. Tragic.
Does not have to be an engine out VMC roll. It can be a Torque roll from many things even with two good running engines and it can even be an accelerated roll with both good running engines. All you need to have is a Prop pitch failure on one engine or accidental prop pitch level change on one engine. The NTSB often negligently ignores these two realities in this type of twin failure. They always look to see if the engine was running, if it was, they blame pilot. But a sudden oil control governor failure in one engine can also cause it. Not oil loss, but some oil control valve failures can cause the pitch to go suddenly to low speed. . Lots of people don't realize a governor can have a failure that makes it go to full pitch, and prop HUB can also fail in a way to drive a prop to full pitch. The tensioner spring failure. NTSB never looks for these things.
Huh?
Twins really scare me. "They will fly you to the scene of the accident".
@@Hawka-Loogy- most probably over your head!
@@Hawka-Loogy One of the most common issues that causes a pilot to crash in a twin is engine out. This is often called VMC roll by pilots, but it is technically a torque roll. However, there are cases when the engine keeps running, and there is no engine out, but there is massive sudden torque roll from the prop pitch activating to full on and the pilot is instantly dumbfounded. He thinks he is losing a engine because RPM drops , rightfully so. But due to pitch increase the engine loosing RPM is also the one with suddenly more torque and the plane pulls opposite to what the pilot corrects for. The engine he thinks is going ou is actually pulling more. The pilots corrections are opposite to what they should be, This causes the plane to yaw Even more. He has no engine out. This will roll a plane over. A sure sign this may have happened is a plane that rolled over as this one did. a regular MC roll is not going to do that with the pilot attempting to correct properly. In these type failures All the pilot has to go by is huge loss of rpm. These type failures show no sign of the engine not running in the crash analysis. This is often why the NTSB will see in the post-crash analysis an engine that looked like it was running. Thats when they decide to blame the pilot and start looking for any other excuse, they can blame on him. Constant speed Props can fail into a mode of full pitch. There are many ways the oil diverter valve can malfunction in a manor to drive the prop to full pitch. The NTSB never ever looks for these type failures.
My condolences 🙏🏼🕊️✝️🌹
Just how do you focus on hunger by having an airplane ??
Non - profit ?? Probably just the usual tax dodging people do.
When you lose an engine in a piston twin like this Cessna 414, you lose more than 80% of performance. He should have immediately lowered the pitch attitude and looked for a place to land straight ahead if he is below 1000 feet. If you are already at pattern altitude, then he can look for return to the airport but that is very risky unless you are very proficient with your piston twin.
You take off at Vsse, get the bird cleaned up and at Vyse (blue line) ASAP rocky. If you lose an engine, yes, you lose 80% of your performance. But if you do your preflight planning the way you should, you’d have planned for the bird to climb on one engine. And never, EVER make an intersection takeoff in a piston twin. Use every foot that is available. Fly out of trouble. Or, stay on the ground and wait for better conditions.
It’s one thing to ditch a Bonanza at 60 knots or less. It’s a whole nuther thing to ditch a cabin class twin going 50 percent faster and at least twice the weight. You’re looking at 4.5 times or more kinetic energy to dissipate in a 414 than a light single. You probably won’t walk away from it.
@@wtcirrus I don’t think you can climb on 1 engine in piston twins. I suppose at sea level and lightly loaded, maybe. Anything conditions outside that, you are lucky if you can maintain your altitude. Otherwise all of your other comments are good points. Pre flight planning is not only a good idea, they are a mandatory must. Always plan for the unexpected so when it happens, they are not unexpected.
@ArizonaAirspace multiengine trainers are flown every day on one engine, not all of which are flown from sea level airports. And yes, they will climb on one engine.
In training, if you lose an engine immediately after takeoff, you’re expected to get cleaned up, identify, verify, and secure the dead engine. Then you get to pattern altitude, enter the pattern, and execute a landing. It’s done every day, and not only at sea level airports.
At least that’s how it was done when I got my multiengine rating forty years ago.
For an after take-off engine failure when you still don't have enough altitude for more choices, its smarter to just shut down both engines and glide/land straight ahead.
Ignoring the manual seems like an odd bit of advice.
These small planes have been dropping like flies.
Much faster on the internet.
GA, is absolutely not safer than driving! Just ask Dan Gryder!!
Why don't you? He has a channel here. Post your question to him this coming Sunday evening.
Who is recovering from a plane crash of his own at the moment. Ironic.
Ask Dan, a known reckless operator. No thanks.
@@darthheretic129 Dan has devoted his life to general aviation safety. Can you back up your assertion with examples of Dan being a reckless operator. One example will do.
Sad Prayers
Density altitude was almost 5000 this afternoon…makes it tough on engine out climbs 🙁 would have been a little cooler in the morning though
Nowhere near the service ceiling for this twin. What are you on about?
These small planes are crashing all over the United States. What is going on? Don’t these private pilots know how to fly a plane? Or maintain one? What’s the problem here? This is common… why?
So tough seeing another Twin go down
I feel sometimes people get their license but dont stay competent enough to fly them in emergency situations
" not saying this pilot wasnt competent " but very sad loss of life
you need decision altitudes where if u get an engine out u commit to forced landing , or above you Power up, Clean up, Identify, Verify, Rectify and then return to land
and if ur ever in a vmc roll pull the power and lower the nose and look to put her down
Every flight you do should be a practice for a what if it goes wrong here, where would I go , what do I do, Rehearse it on the ground, in your bed, in the car. The privilege of a license comes with an immense amount of responsibility...
The crash site is at:
McKinney - North Texas Natural Select Materials
3403 County Road 317
McKinney, TX 75069
And is southeast of the departure end of Runway 36.
The aircraft, N414BS a Cessna 414 twin engine plane, departed on Runway 18 but failed to fly the plane straight ahead after experiencing an engine failure. There are open fields south of Old Mill Road and north of Wilson Creek where the pilot could have flown the plane straight-in to an off-field landing. It looks as though the pilot was instead attempting to turn around and head back to the airport. An engine out condition, coupled with slow airspeed, low altitude, and turning typically lead to a stall and uncontrolled crash like this one. The description of the aircraft after takeoff indicates the one engine was not producing power. The plane stalled, rolled over (a Vmc roll) and impacted the ground inverted.
Vmc stands for Velocity Minimum Control. It’s the minimum airspeed at which an aircraft can maintain control with one engine inoperative.
Thank you. Never flew the 414, but I always heard it a pretty capable on a single engine.
@nuclearrabbit1
The 414 is a 421 with less powerful engines. I can’t imagine it being that good on one.
@@nuclearrabbit1 I have never heard that. Every 414 pilot I have known reports it is not an airplane to be flown on one engine and is a handful on one engine and the pilot must be exceptional on this aircraft with engine failure especially on takeoff & climout.
Ok, thanks. Must have been thinking of the 421.
Thank you
Thank you to the yard personnel whos quick actions with the water truck kept the plane from becoming fully involved.
Sounds like he stalled it on ROTOT or LOTOT. Another twin engine down. RIP. 🙏🏼
So, where is everyone? nobody going after Cessna for making an unsafe plane? Where are the cries "profit before safety"? Huh?
The landing gear and flaps were down.
@@Andrew-13579 usually we take off with the gear down.
@@TecTrends I was simply making an observation. I could be wrong, but in a light twin, if you lose power from an engine after takeoff and there’s no more runway ahead to land on, the gear has to come up, does it not? To reduce drag, to keep the aircraft under controlled flight, or to belly in on a flat surface if it cannot continue to fly.
@@Andrew-13579 yeah me too, my point was that we stick to the landing gear out while takeoff, because depending on the handbook the gear helps reduce impact forces. Also while takeoff your hands are on the throttle probably. As the witness said altitude was very low and it flipped while an assumed attempt to turn back was made. Maybe gear only comes in for this plane at a higher altitude, no way he got it in and out while in the flip.
So your observation is totally correct and shows what probably happened. Depending on his airfield, as the report states, he could have gone straight maybe. Then it could make sense to retract gear as you say, but only if there is no other way to reach’s crash site. For me best option would be continue straight and leave gear out, or slowly climb with 1 remaining engine with gear in before turn
Who texts other people to call 911 for them?
Some people now are SCARED SHITLESS to talk on the phone... LITERALLY.
Landing that chopper in white-out conditions was reckless in its own. At least they could have used a tanker and wet the area .
White-out is snow, brown-out is sand/dust. But yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I've requested for that many times in my career and they never have a problem doing it.
@@jsaleen17 In our part of the World,some dust is pure white just like snow and claimed a couple of lifes.But in total we agree.
When I was a firefighter, we would wet down the landing zone if we had time. That engine had enough water on it to do it without a tanker or other resources.
0:44 Medevac helo descending into a cloud of rotor wash dust could have very easily been crash #2 at the scene.
Pretty sure that pilot is a lot more concerned about his crews safety than we are. If he sensed an imminent crash, I'm quite sure he would've pulled up.
@@TexasHarleyBoy65 The middle of a landing flare is NOT the best time to transition to instruments.
Classic VMC roll
Vmc rollover… common with twin engine aircraft.
Not exactly "common".
Common for those pilots that have no business operating a twin. This should not have ended fatally.
@@UncleKennysPlaceit’s very common actually, it has killed a lot of people over the years…a lot of these pilots aren’t getting the currency training they need or lack the skill to fly a twin…
And no counter-rotating props on a 414.
@@jbw9999 How would CRP helped with an engine out condition?
AQP for GA !!!
Rip 🙏
How many likes did the dead people get on Tic Tok?
Not another one...
Wanna take a guess at how many car crashes resulted in death today?
@phillipzx3754
General aviation is far deadlier than driving. It’s roughly on par with riding a motorcycle.
@@calvinnickel9995 Yet the odds of being killed in a GA crash are lower than being killed in either an automobile or a motorcycle crash.
@@phillipzx3754 flying commercial is very safe. Flying private planes is not
@@calvinnickel9995 Don't think so!! Air travel safest, Car 2x more dangerous, Motor cycle 4x more dangerous, Ga flying 150x more dangerous!!
😢
Vmc roll, very sad.
Man that sucks 😞
Get below Blue Line and see your maker..... R.I.P.
Another twin goes in after loosing an engine
Were all the donations going to keep the plane flying....rather than for food???
Yeah I doubt that a lot of the money went to actually helping people. It’s a nice tax-free way to fly for a hobby.
The 414 isn’t really good for much of anything other than a rich man’s toy. A 402 or Navajo or Caravan or 206 are working airplanes.
@@calvinnickel9995 Says the sour grapes stooge.
Both you guys sound pretty stooopid
Take a look at their 2022 taxes. $244K in donations, spent $79K in “distribution costs”, spent $50K in depreciation of “equipment”, $7K on insurance.
@@calvinnickel9995BS to say that without more information. Let them have time to grieve before pointing fingers.
Stall / Spin💀
Probably vmc roll
Do some math. Check crashes per year from 1980 to 2019. Then 2020 until now. It doesn't take genius to see why all these planes, jets, helicopters are going down
What is the cause?
Is DEI a factor?
So.....why? I'm not genius.
@@saito125 Perception. The internet. All local news is now national.
more bad avgas
Wow.... you're faster than the NTSB and FAA! 🎉
@@saito125 evidently. massive number of GA planes go down from dec forward on takeoff, after epa messes with fuel, no brainer
Another exhibit of why twin engine is not safer than single engine. Not until you get into two crew and turbine engines.
not true, it all depends on the pilot and proficiency level
a proficient well trained multi-pilot can be safer in a light twin vs single in many circumstances
Single engine engine failures almost always crash. Most twin engine failures do not. Particularly above 2000 feet AGL
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky Q. What do you call a Cessna when the engine quits? A. A glider.
@@z33511 It runs like like all singles.
That engine and blades will require a rough area landing inspection. Ingested some serious dust.
Daily carnage
On TH-cam
@@AlbertHess-xy7ky and in person, and on the local news, and on national news...we are not blind
@@stevefisher2553 What was local is now national. How much are small aircraft crashes up versus up versus takeoffs? You have been blinded to reality. TH-cam
@@stevefisher2553 What is the point of your comment? It was an accident.
That’s around my school cornerstone and I heard the big boom me and my friend heard it all
Wow scary huh?
VMC Roll for sure... Curious to see how experienced this PIC was..
RIP those that passed away. Sincerest condolences from the UK