I wonder if Simmons does the “if you did his career 20 times” on other jobs - like maybe an Applebee’s server who gives him bad service or an Uber driver in the wrong car is Simmons’ opinion
they make fun of players but they are choosing bums so why not go with an all star?..that means something....its not handed out to everyone...24-25 guys get to be all stars yearly....out of over now 480 players..thats like 2% of the nba
Very good chance he’ll get another ring as the 4th or 5th best guy on a team this year too. Just a great, high character two way guy who’d fit on pretty much any team.
I get that Demar choked in the playoffs repeatedly and hates shooting 3's, but he was still the primary scorer for a Raptors team that was top 3 in the East from 2016-2018. To not even be a top 6 pick is just shitting on him
They pretend like he did nothing for the Raptors. After Carter left they did nothing and even with him they didn't have that much succes. With DeRozan they were somebody in the east for a while. Some years they had injuries and some years then ren into lebron but yes DeRozan no matter how you slice it is a top 5-6 pick. And Lowe drafts as if he can change these guys,so considering how much offensive talent DeRozan has,why can't his culture change DeMar a little bit to ?
armin38822 good argument, there’s a reason why Lowry got traded and not deMar cause you have to be good enough to get that talent. There is no championship without demar period. I don’t like the on off numbers these guys always use. If demar was benched they’re not getting number one seeds or making conference finals lol.
@@Kirbystare1992 there's a very good reason Lowry wasn't traded instead of Derozan and it's really not that hard to understand. Derozan clearly had more trade value which is something to point out. Spurs felt they would be getting a 2 way wing they could make into the next Kawhi instead of an undersized gaurd. That said, Derozans value to the raptors, brought them a championship. Though it was in trade, he was still the key to them getting the roster that we saw win a ring last season.
Rubio definitely had the worst version of his career, i watched him have a 5 game stretch with the wolves where we had a murderers row on the schedule against the top 5 pgs in the league at the time and every game i went into it thinking oh man the wolves are gonna get torched by their PG and every game rubio outplayed them and i believe we went 4-1 against them with the only loss rubio posting a triple double with like 5 steals and really just nobody else showed up that game. thats when i started to actually see how underrated he really was. rubio should have never left MN we needed a point guard who could create for the likes of wiggins and towns he didnt need to be a scorer for us anymore we had the talent. teague was a ball stopper and rubio was a better defender the move made 0 sense
I remember listening to this when it came out and thinking Zach wasn’t 100% crazy with the Ty Lawson take. Now 4 years later looking back it seems impossible to ever have had Derozan lower than 5th. Wild how things change.
After listening to this I think Zach Lowe is just as good as Bill Simmons at hosting NBA podcasts. The real difference is that Bill records video as well. I really like the switch up to Zach hosting, I just need the video recording...
Two little Euro points: Llull is now 32, truning 33 in November. He was the best player outside of the NBA in 2017. MVP of the Euroleague and of the Spanish League. Check out any highlight reel from that year. He made Steph Curry range threes in transition, could still get to the rim almost at will, especially in the open court, and was CLUTCH AS FUCK. However, he was overutilized by his team (Real Madrid) and by the end of the season was running on fumes. They won the midseason King's Cup with him as the MVP on an egregious non-call of an over and back, but were thoroughly beaten in the Euroleague semis (one game) by eventual champion Fenerbahçe and then lost the Spanish League Finals (five game series, lost in four) to Valencia, a vastly inferior team in terms of budget (which is a huge factor in Europe). They just didn't have enough players who could step up because everything had been so focused on Llull and he was exhausted. Then that summer he blew out his knee. He came back and had some huge moments in the Euroleague and Spanish League wins by Real who had Luka Doncic as the everything MVP: he made amazing, momentum altering threes in the playoffs and all, but was not the same. Ever since he's had flashes but has never sustained the brilliance of that season. Still, top performer in the European system where rosters are much more balanced in terms of talent because you can just pay as much as you want if you can afford to: he's not called upon to excel on every game so when he does it's a great plus and he's always been a great defender. The other point: Beaubois has been pretty good in Europe, but is still someone I wouldn't trust in a playoff game and in fact as a fan of other teams I'm pretty comfortable in those types of games when he's on the court.
I always thought Llull was a bit overrated because he was tough shot specialist. He could make crazy shots from time to time, but that said, I never liked his game. Also he is not very good anymore after he blew his knee. Llull is classic combo guard player that Bill wouldnt like I bet. I think current Campazzo is much better than Llull ever was, that is a guy thats a crime he is not in the league right now.
Yo Harden playing on the Grizzlies would’ve been fantastic. You got Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, and a great defense around him so he can focus on just going out and getting buckets. It would’ve been awesome to see that team competing in the playoffs with a scoring threat like that
1:39 Thabeet was No.2 in the ESPN, Slam, Bleacher Report, DraftExpress, RealGM and NBADraftnet mock drafts. It was defensible back then. NCAA Thabeet highlights: th-cam.com/video/g8INXXhrObM/w-d-xo.html
They forget that the Kings mismanagement of Tyreke ruined his career. If they just let him be a point guard in a good organization he would have been an all-star
There is definitely a case for Matthews. He was the better player for years but not in a better situation on the fragile Blazers vs the near perfect Spurs
Well Bill atleast has the 5th pick and drafts them DeMar. But the issue is that the Wolves originally pick Rubio and Flynn while Curry is still on the board when he wouldnt be available in a redraft
Funny Pistons conversation at the end. The downfall of the team began with Big Ben leaving to Cleveland. I could talk for days on the mismanaged Pistons after the “Going to Work” team started to get dissolved.
I remember that. Dumars passed on Dwyane Wade in the 03 draft and eventually tried to rebuild around a poor man’s DWade, Rodney Stuckey, six years later. 😆
Seriously? Demar DeRozan doesnt help you win basketball games? Somebody needs to show this Zach Lowe basketball-reference.com Just because you don't watch the games doesn't mean they don't happen.
as a heat fan can I just say how glad i am that my franchise outside of a couple injury filled tank years and early start as a expansion team mind you has never been a joke really since i been alive...i am proud of them for playing real basketball and never being god awful or having bone head plays that cost us games outside of 2007-2008 where we were garbage
@@twcgoat4761 no its not even that i just would hate to be like the t wolves hornets kings teams with real long droughts and bad play for most of their history where you know its a joke...even if the heat win under 45 games its super rare for them to win under 36 and they always are entertaining and play hard and smart and don't have terrible plays or mistakes that cost them as much as say the pelicans do...you always feel like you can win a game or have fun...watching certain teams like the knicks must be a headache....just every night you feel like your going to lose for years
This disrespect for derozan is crazy said a dude that don’t who you win basketball games but he led the raptors to a conference finals and perennial playoff team meanwhile jrue as the second best player in New Orleans only won one playoff Series
Zach is disrespectful af. Demar is nice. I’m sick of people discounting what he was able to do in Toronto. Everybody can’t win a championship. Also, the notion that everyone else could have a better career if given another opportunity *EXCEPT* for Demar is laughable af
He played with CP3 and beats Curry Dray Klay KD if CP3 doesnt get hurt 👎 I would take Curry too but what has Curry proven? That he can beat LeBron whose best players were Mozgov and Delly? That he can beat LeBron with 3 other HOF and Iggy is also in the discussion
@@coldwinter5428 hahaha, my comment was about the past and the present not the future, i always took Curry over KD even. I just bring context into it cause not every title is worth the same
10:26 The 1960 NBA draft has 4 HOFers in the Top 8 picks: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Lenny Wilkens and Tom Sanders. The other HOF player in this class is Al Attles at the 39th pick.
It’s crazy to think how good memphis would be if they drafted steph or harden instead of thabeet. Derozan is also a buffed up version of Rudy gay. Tyreke or Rubio might conflict with Conley but I think the fit is not crazy bad. literally anything but thabeet
@@NickLandess Did Simmons say that? He'd be right if so. Funny thing with that draft. If the Lakers drafted Terry Cummings instead, he'd likely be in the HOF, and if the Clippers got Worthy, probably only a few of us would remember him as one of those really nice players of the 1980s who didn't win anything meaningful. Their legacies could be flipped completely. People underestimate how much luck factors into the trajectory of this league.
@@75aces97 I think it's in the Worthy section of the basketball pyramid in his basketball book. He makes a point of acknowledging that he thinks Worthy was a great player, but that getting to play with Magic and Kareem was essentially the basketball equivalent of winning the lottery for him. I think that's a pretty good point about Terry Cummings, but I do think (and this is a major part of the points I have heard BS make) Worthy's skill set - particularly his ability to fill the wing and finish on a break - were *perfectly* suited to that situation.
OK, so I'm fully aware of me being provincial, but if we're taking 'best case scenario' type of careers let's talk Omri Casspi. The dude was elected to the Rising Stars and faced KD in that weird HORSE tournament they were holding that AS weekend. Him going to the cavs was a Mistake. Capital M. BUT he was a decent stretch four, and developed a great chemistry with Boogie during his second stint with the Kings, before injuries straight out butchered him. He had that crazy shooting match with Steph, and when he was already about to get to the playoffs - He was cut because Curry got injured, and the Warriors needed a PG (and since he stopped shooting 3s for some reason) So I don't think he's necessarily a top 14 pick, I might also pick Jennings over him. BUT - is his 75th percentile career scenario is higher than Taj or Danny Green? Hell yes.
Interesting that both Zach and bill worry about shots and team chemistry with porter, but always rip OKC. Do they think there was enough shots for Durant Westbrook and harden?????
bibby made a couple shots that season for the heat but in the finals he became trash for some reason after game 1 just a total non factor...and he played ok the next year...he just was trash in the final
I'm not a big fan of Demar DeRozan but you seem like you really really underestimate him. He's far better than Ty Lawson or Wes Matthews ever were or would have been. Seems like you guys were just mocking him to be edgy, that's not very nice and a bit disappointing of you Zach (we know your ex boss is an a hole as David Kahn put it).
The Gasol Brothers alone is amazing. Add in Jose Calderon, Ricky Rubio, and Rudy Fernandez, of the players that I know, and that is a unit. Especially at that time when you needed a good big, and really more than one, in order to win. Lakers won two chips based off of a Pau, Bynum, and Odom rotation, along with Kobe. Grit and Grind Grizzlies upset the Spurs in 2011. Both of those teams had Gasols. I love those guys. :D
53:30 Seriously, even Darren Collison probably has a better carreer than Ty Lawson. Ty's last 4 years in the league was really bad. Collison can shoot the three, have almost 50 win shares and never averaged below 10 ppg during his 10-year career.
Even in 2020 arguing harden is even close to curry was insane. Then you add in hindsight of steph winning another title and harden flamimg out in more playoffs just makes it hilariously stupid
The issue with demar is he cannot be the best player on a championship team and honestly he was almost always the best player on his team. Its kind of easy to target/prepare for his playstyle in the playoffs which is why in hindsight he looks bad and not a winner. It wouldve helped if he was a number 2 or a co number-1 and he wouldve honestly atleast had a better chance to go to the finals. The thing we forget is those years when demar was really good, it was impossible to go the finals as lebron was there and honestly even if demar had better teammates, i doubt he would've gone to the finals. Even if he does, beating the spurs or the warriors teams those years seems very doubtful. (this is all assuming he had better teammates on the raptors) Jrue on the other hand was always a number-2 or number-3 all those years because of which he was always high value depending on the team he was on.
wade and kobe were right there with lebron in 2008-2009 as the best players on earth and 2010 probably a hair below him just overall and in 2011 i would say bron was better than kobe but not wade...wade in the 2011 finals was a monster...he hurt his knee in game 4 lebron did not show up barea stepped up terry killed them kidd made some shots stevenson showed up brewer cardinal and mahinmi all had a moment in the series out of nowhere and miami got nothing from bibby juwan or joel and they lost cause they did not play james jones and both haslem and chalmers should of played more
I think Curry's one of those guys that kind of got lucky with his career. You know his ankles would have exploded and he would have been out of the league in 5 years if he went to the Knicks (partially because of the Knicks bad luck). Remember Curry was on such a team friendly deal for so long because he had ankle trouble for the first bit of his career.
Listening to Lowe hating on DeRozan while he's averaging 27 a game at the all star break is kinda hilarious but I get it for the time. Just a couple years later it looks like a real bad take.
It was a bad take then too. Derozen was the best player on a consistent conference finalist. That may not be much but it's a greater impact than holiday. Not to mention how dismissive he is about DeMar ever after taking jrue. It's ridiculous. Those raptor teams were really good
It’s not that bad of a take. The bulls were WAAAAAAAAY overrated last year and they suck this year. The spurs weren’t good when they had him and the raptors were stuck in purgatory when they had him. Their point is he gets numbers and it doesn’t seem to make his team win basketball games.
Guys, stop with the "best version of his career". Your pick has the "best version" but the guys you pass you apparently doesn't? E.g. The best version of Ty Lawson is better than the best version of Tyreke Evans? Lowe, use your culture to fix Evans! This whole "best version" is just a cop out. The reason you are doing a re-draftable is that you now know how the gd career went. Use that!!!
Bill Simmons thinks he is so damn smart and knows everything. If you go back to the NBA draft lottery show of 2009 Jay Bilas has Hasheem Thabeet as the second best available talent on his list. I think he had James Harden at 5 or 6 and Step Curry was like 9. NOONE knew that Harden and Curry were going to be the players they ended up being. Also the the Grizzlies had Mike Conley AND Kyle Lowry on their roster so there is no way in hell they were going to draft Step Curry who most "experts" at the time thought was a shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body. Also they had just drafted O.J. Mayo who had just led ALL rookies in scoring and was runner up ROY behind Derrick Rose..Kevin Love was not runner up to Derrick Rose like this idiot would have you believe. Back in the summer of 2009 if you had asked ANY GM who was the better prospect at that time O.J. Mayo or James Harden and ALL of them would have said Mayo...everyone of them. The Grizzlies also had a young Rudy Gay on the wing who needed touches. Yes, Marc Gasol had just finished his rookie season in the summer of 2009 and while he posted decent numbers his defense was absolutely HORRIBLE. He offered no rim protection AT ALL(that season the Grizzlies ranked dead last in points allowed in the paint) and this was an era in the NBA when big men still were king. His senior season at UConn Thabeet was an excellent shot blocker and rebounder...exactly what the young Grizzles needed at that time. Those are the reasons why in the summer of 2009 the Memphis Grizzles selected Hasheem Thabeet with the second overall pick and at the time why most didn't have a problem with it AT ALL.
I wonder if Simmons does the “if you did his career 20 times” on other jobs - like maybe an Applebee’s server who gives him bad service or an Uber driver in the wrong car is Simmons’ opinion
I was watching his 2010 redraft and was like where TF is 09 and now I'm here.
Zach and Bill together is great, so informative but fun.
He should revisit this, and do 2011, 2012, and 2013.
Bill Simmons clipperseasonticketing the Lowe Post Podcast on minute 37.
“Can I push back on Jeff Teague?”
“....he’s been pushed enough.”
Highlight.
they make fun of players but they are choosing bums so why not go with an all star?..that means something....its not handed out to everyone...24-25 guys get to be all stars yearly....out of over now 480 players..thats like 2% of the nba
@@razkable more like 5% but valid point
When Bill and Zach get together is magic instantly.
Jrue Holiday can be the third best player on a championship team is a take that aged really well
Very good chance he’ll get another ring as the 4th or 5th best guy on a team this year too. Just a great, high character two way guy who’d fit on pretty much any team.
😂
@@TheHarvbingeranother take that aged well😂
@@TheHarvbingerHe did, good defender
25:25 draft starts
How was Darren Collison not mentioned once?!
They have always been low on Collison
The echo on zach’s mic makes me feel like I’m listening to him in a lecture hall
I want the weed that somehow makes ty Lawson the 6th pick
It’s gotta be 🔥
Wedding Cake, an Indica hybrid, helps you conjure and believe stuff like that just before getting the best sleep of the year.
Ty Lawson for like 2 years was absolutely crushing it in a similar way to Isaiah Thomas
@@ericlytle2209 Still not worthy of the 6th pick, but come on and pass that. 🤵🏿+👰🏿+🎂=🔥
@@ericlytle2209 He was never close to Isaiah Thomas levels
Ty Lawson over Derozen? Lowe please stop it😂😂
“Why the two orders colonel jessup!?” Bill bringing the rewatchables into the pod.
I get that Demar choked in the playoffs repeatedly and hates shooting 3's, but he was still the primary scorer for a Raptors team that was top 3 in the East from 2016-2018. To not even be a top 6 pick is just shitting on him
They pretend like he did nothing for the Raptors. After Carter left they did nothing and even with him they didn't have that much succes. With DeRozan they were somebody in the east for a while. Some years they had injuries and some years then ren into lebron but yes DeRozan no matter how you slice it is a top 5-6 pick. And Lowe drafts as if he can change these guys,so considering how much offensive talent DeRozan has,why can't his culture change DeMar a little bit to ?
This what happens when basketball nerds spend too much time together
armin38822 good argument, there’s a reason why Lowry got traded and not deMar cause you have to be good enough to get that talent. There is no championship without demar period. I don’t like the on off numbers these guys always use. If demar was benched they’re not getting number one seeds or making conference finals lol.
@@Kirbystare1992?????
@@Kirbystare1992 there's a very good reason Lowry wasn't traded instead of Derozan and it's really not that hard to understand. Derozan clearly had more trade value which is something to point out. Spurs felt they would be getting a 2 way wing they could make into the next Kawhi instead of an undersized gaurd. That said, Derozans value to the raptors, brought them a championship. Though it was in trade, he was still the key to them getting the roster that we saw win a ring last season.
Rubio definitely had the worst version of his career, i watched him have a 5 game stretch with the wolves where we had a murderers row on the schedule against the top 5 pgs in the league at the time and every game i went into it thinking oh man the wolves are gonna get torched by their PG and every game rubio outplayed them and i believe we went 4-1 against them with the only loss rubio posting a triple double with like 5 steals and really just nobody else showed up that game. thats when i started to actually see how underrated he really was. rubio should have never left MN we needed a point guard who could create for the likes of wiggins and towns he didnt need to be a scorer for us anymore we had the talent. teague was a ball stopper and rubio was a better defender the move made 0 sense
Why not use the same logic for Rubio with Demar? Doesnt make sense to me
I remember listening to this when it came out and thinking Zach wasn’t 100% crazy with the Ty Lawson take. Now 4 years later looking back it seems impossible to ever have had Derozan lower than 5th. Wild how things change.
Imagine picking Ricky Rubio and Ty Lawson over DeRozan lmao
this and 03 were the two from the start I was most excited for. Wish this was put up on the ringer's channel with video
After listening to this I think Zach Lowe is just as good as Bill Simmons at hosting NBA podcasts. The real difference is that Bill records video as well. I really like the switch up to Zach hosting, I just need the video recording...
Zach got much much better. He wasn't this good like 2-3 years ago.
@@armin38822 Working with Bill Simmons is a great way to learn!
Two little Euro points:
Llull is now 32, truning 33 in November. He was the best player outside of the NBA in 2017. MVP of the Euroleague and of the Spanish League. Check out any highlight reel from that year. He made Steph Curry range threes in transition, could still get to the rim almost at will, especially in the open court, and was CLUTCH AS FUCK. However, he was overutilized by his team (Real Madrid) and by the end of the season was running on fumes. They won the midseason King's Cup with him as the MVP on an egregious non-call of an over and back, but were thoroughly beaten in the Euroleague semis (one game) by eventual champion Fenerbahçe and then lost the Spanish League Finals (five game series, lost in four) to Valencia, a vastly inferior team in terms of budget (which is a huge factor in Europe). They just didn't have enough players who could step up because everything had been so focused on Llull and he was exhausted.
Then that summer he blew out his knee. He came back and had some huge moments in the Euroleague and Spanish League wins by Real who had Luka Doncic as the everything MVP: he made amazing, momentum altering threes in the playoffs and all, but was not the same. Ever since he's had flashes but has never sustained the brilliance of that season. Still, top performer in the European system where rosters are much more balanced in terms of talent because you can just pay as much as you want if you can afford to: he's not called upon to excel on every game so when he does it's a great plus and he's always been a great defender.
The other point: Beaubois has been pretty good in Europe, but is still someone I wouldn't trust in a playoff game and in fact as a fan of other teams I'm pretty comfortable in those types of games when he's on the court.
I always thought Llull was a bit overrated because he was tough shot specialist. He could make crazy shots from time to time, but that said, I never liked his game. Also he is not very good anymore after he blew his knee. Llull is classic combo guard player that Bill wouldnt like I bet. I think current Campazzo is much better than Llull ever was, that is a guy thats a crime he is not in the league right now.
My man got 27 subscribers.
Subscriber 28 here sir.
It’s about to rise with everyone commenting on 2010 redraft
@@davecartmill5086 that's what brought me here! 😄
Shit he's got 90 now
Feed me redraftables!!!
Terrence Williams was tough as a rookie for the Nets
bruh he was a gawd in 2k10
“He runs like he’s towing a speedboat behind him”😭😂😭😂
So my Bucks took Brandon Jennings at 10. He's OK. But I absolutely love the pick, because we traded him for KA$H MONEY MIDDLETON BAYBEEEE
Yo Harden playing on the Grizzlies would’ve been fantastic. You got Mike Conley, Marc Gasol, and a great defense around him so he can focus on just going out and getting buckets. It would’ve been awesome to see that team competing in the playoffs with a scoring threat like that
Sitting here a couple hours after Jrue Holliday just played 3rd banana on a championship team. Great call Zach Lowe!
For those of you who want the visuals:
^SPOILERS^
1- Curry
2- Harden
3- Griffin
4- Holiday
5- Derozan
6- Rubio
7- Matthews
8- Lawson
9- Gibson
10- Evans
11- Green
12- Teague
13- Ingles
14- Beverly
Who else just likes demar because he’s fun to watch?
D-Wade was amazing in 2011. I'm glad y'all showed him love.
I like how they predicted jrue and giannas together now they champions
1:39 Thabeet was No.2 in the ESPN, Slam, Bleacher Report, DraftExpress, RealGM and NBADraftnet mock drafts. It was defensible back then. NCAA Thabeet highlights: th-cam.com/video/g8INXXhrObM/w-d-xo.html
They forget that the Kings mismanagement of Tyreke ruined his career. If they just let him be a point guard in a good organization he would have been an all-star
Eh. He was a ball stopper who couldn’t shoot and didn’t make his teammates better. Absolutely replaceable.
Even if the Knicks got Curry they probably would have traded him for Melo lol.
Missed this one during the initial run and amazing how much DeRozan has now shifted in that conversation
Genuine argument for blake at 5 not even 2 years later
Bill says taj Gibson I immediately say to myself what team is he on again I’m a Knick fan which is what makes this sad
Danny Green... 2019 finals MVP (destroying Klay's knee)
Unacceptably disrespectful to Danny Green.
There is no case for Wes Matthew's over Danny Green. But I still love you guys...😊
There is definitely a case for Matthews. He was the better player for years but not in a better situation on the fragile Blazers vs the near perfect Spurs
love the whole 1999 time warp feel
Hindsight Zach is far too disrespectful of demar.
So they laugh at Kahn for picking two pgs but Lowe has Rubio and Lawson on Minnesota again.
They aren't redrafting on the basis of team need at each pick
@@courthype but in past redrafts you hear them say things such as they really needed a point guard so im taking (insert player)"
Well Bill atleast has the 5th pick and drafts them DeMar. But the issue is that the Wolves originally pick Rubio and Flynn while Curry is still on the board when he wouldnt be available in a redraft
Funny Pistons conversation at the end. The downfall of the team began with Big Ben leaving to Cleveland. I could talk for days on the mismanaged Pistons after the “Going to Work” team started to get dissolved.
I remember that. Dumars passed on Dwyane Wade in the 03 draft and eventually tried to rebuild around a poor man’s DWade, Rodney Stuckey, six years later. 😆
I’m still waiting for 2k to get the Sam Young pump fake
Love your content, but that mild echo on your mic made listening to this with headphones almost unbearable at times.
Picking Holiday over DeRozan was just stupid. Can we get a retraction immediately?
Seriously? Demar DeRozan doesnt help you win basketball games? Somebody needs to show this Zach Lowe basketball-reference.com
Just because you don't watch the games doesn't mean they don't happen.
as a heat fan can I just say how glad i am that my franchise outside of a couple injury filled tank years and early start as a expansion team mind you has never been a joke really since i been alive...i am proud of them for playing real basketball and never being god awful or having bone head plays that cost us games outside of 2007-2008 where we were garbage
magic fan from up the road, its been pretty tough for us since 2012....
@@twcgoat4761 no its not even that i just would hate to be like the t wolves hornets kings teams with real long droughts and bad play for most of their history where you know its a joke...even if the heat win under 45 games its super rare for them to win under 36 and they always are entertaining and play hard and smart and don't have terrible plays or mistakes that cost them as much as say the pelicans do...you always feel like you can win a game or have fun...watching certain teams like the knicks must be a headache....just every night you feel like your going to lose for years
I’m really curious where Jrue Holiday would be ranked now in a redraft if you did this in 2024
"NUDGE!"
My lunch break is 45min make with the picks....and if DeMar isn't a top 6 pick im writing letters
Interesting hearing how Harden was viewed before forcing his way out 3 teams
This disrespect for derozan is crazy said a dude that don’t who you win basketball games but he led the raptors to a conference finals and perennial playoff team meanwhile jrue as the second best player in New Orleans only won one playoff Series
How much Haterade do you have to drink to pick Ty Lawson before DeMar?
Zach is disrespectful af. Demar is nice. I’m sick of people discounting what he was able to do in Toronto. Everybody can’t win a championship. Also, the notion that everyone else could have a better career if given another opportunity *EXCEPT* for Demar is laughable af
Wait did i miss something? No mention of darren collison?
Made the first 100 subs
Ty Lawson ahead of Demar Derozan, have you lost your mind
25:40 Curry VS Harden is not a debate - until Harden learns to play with other elite players and win
He played with CP3 and beats Curry Dray Klay KD if CP3 doesnt get hurt 👎
I would take Curry too but what has Curry proven? That he can beat LeBron whose best players were Mozgov and Delly? That he can beat LeBron with 3 other HOF and Iggy is also in the discussion
I wouldn't say it's not a debate
- 23 the Finals aren’t the hardest competition in curry’s playoff runs
@@patricija4179 this Curry take didn't age well.
@@coldwinter5428 hahaha, my comment was about the past and the present not the future, i always took Curry over KD even. I just bring context into it cause not every title is worth the same
10:26 The 1960 NBA draft has 4 HOFers in the Top 8 picks: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Lenny Wilkens and Tom Sanders. The other HOF player in this class is Al Attles at the 39th pick.
not top 7
It’s crazy to think how good memphis would be if they drafted steph or harden instead of thabeet. Derozan is also a buffed up version of Rudy gay. Tyreke or Rubio might conflict with Conley but I think the fit is not crazy bad. literally anything but thabeet
imagine if James Harden was drafted by Memphis. I always believed that Memphis was only missing one scorer to be a champion.
Is there anybody in Simmons's "if you play his career 20X..." where the version we got was the best that could have been?
James Worthy
@@NickLandess Did Simmons say that? He'd be right if so. Funny thing with that draft. If the Lakers drafted Terry Cummings instead, he'd likely be in the HOF, and if the Clippers got Worthy, probably only a few of us would remember him as one of those really nice players of the 1980s who didn't win anything meaningful. Their legacies could be flipped completely. People underestimate how much luck factors into the trajectory of this league.
@@75aces97 I think it's in the Worthy section of the basketball pyramid in his basketball book. He makes a point of acknowledging that he thinks Worthy was a great player, but that getting to play with Magic and Kareem was essentially the basketball equivalent of winning the lottery for him.
I think that's a pretty good point about Terry Cummings, but I do think (and this is a major part of the points I have heard BS make) Worthy's skill set - particularly his ability to fill the wing and finish on a break - were *perfectly* suited to that situation.
OK, so I'm fully aware of me being provincial, but if we're taking 'best case scenario' type of careers let's talk Omri Casspi. The dude was elected to the Rising Stars and faced KD in that weird HORSE tournament they were holding that AS weekend.
Him going to the cavs was a Mistake. Capital M. BUT he was a decent stretch four, and developed a great chemistry with Boogie during his second stint with the Kings, before injuries straight out butchered him. He had that crazy shooting match with Steph, and when he was already about to get to the playoffs - He was cut because Curry got injured, and the Warriors needed a PG (and since he stopped shooting 3s for some reason)
So I don't think he's necessarily a top 14 pick, I might also pick Jennings over him. BUT - is his 75th percentile career scenario is higher than Taj or Danny Green? Hell yes.
Y’all underrated demar
I guess Milos Teodosic should be drafted if you're an ok-team which can make him come from Russia
Interesting that both Zach and bill worry about shots and team chemistry with porter, but always rip OKC. Do they think there was enough shots for Durant Westbrook and harden?????
Patrick beverley at #13 is laughable
If they did this in 2023, DeRozan gotta be top 5
Pat bev got done so dirty here brother
bibby made a couple shots that season for the heat but in the finals he became trash for some reason after game 1 just a total non factor...and he played ok the next year...he just was trash in the final
I'm not a big fan of Demar DeRozan but you seem like you really really underestimate him. He's far better than Ty Lawson or Wes Matthews ever were or would have been. Seems like you guys were just mocking him to be edgy, that's not very nice and a bit disappointing of you Zach (we know your ex boss is an a hole as David Kahn put it).
Bill might have been joking about getting Spanish national team in one NBA team, but trust me that team is winning at least one ring
The Gasol Brothers alone is amazing. Add in Jose Calderon, Ricky Rubio, and Rudy Fernandez, of the players that I know, and that is a unit. Especially at that time when you needed a good big, and really more than one, in order to win. Lakers won two chips based off of a Pau, Bynum, and Odom rotation, along with Kobe. Grit and Grind Grizzlies upset the Spurs in 2011. Both of those teams had Gasols. I love those guys. :D
53:30 Seriously, even Darren Collison probably has a better carreer than Ty Lawson. Ty's last 4 years in the league was really bad. Collison can shoot the three, have almost 50 win shares and never averaged below 10 ppg during his 10-year career.
i don't get jrue over derozan, plus gibson mathews or lawson over teague....
But lawsons top was miles ahead of collisons top
@@tnikoli40 Agreed...his pick was based on potential. Lawson had so much untapped potential.
Asmosis Jones jrue can do more on the court
@@tnikoli40 pause
Even in 2020 arguing harden is even close to curry was insane. Then you add in hindsight of steph winning another title and harden flamimg out in more playoffs just makes it hilariously stupid
dayum no love for brandon jennings
Did bill call klay a possible hall of famer? Isnt he likely to be 100% first ballet?
Lowe needs to sort out his echo
why is zach's audio so bad here? theres like this echo effect on his voice.
Why can't Jefferson and Love play together? They compliment each other offensivly
Holiday over DeRozan?
The Reke slander is criminal 😤
When will they do 2011 ?
Idk
The issue with demar is he cannot be the best player on a championship team and honestly he was almost always the best player on his team. Its kind of easy to target/prepare for his playstyle in the playoffs which is why in hindsight he looks bad and not a winner. It wouldve helped if he was a number 2 or a co number-1 and he wouldve honestly atleast had a better chance to go to the finals. The thing we forget is those years when demar was really good, it was impossible to go the finals as lebron was there and honestly even if demar had better teammates, i doubt he would've gone to the finals. Even if he does, beating the spurs or the warriors teams those years seems very doubtful. (this is all assuming he had better teammates on the raptors) Jrue on the other hand was always a number-2 or number-3 all those years because of which he was always high value depending on the team he was on.
I feel like Simmons low key hating on Bron
wade and kobe were right there with lebron in 2008-2009 as the best players on earth and 2010 probably a hair below him just overall and in 2011 i would say bron was better than kobe but not wade...wade in the 2011 finals was a monster...he hurt his knee in game 4 lebron did not show up barea stepped up terry killed them kidd made some shots stevenson showed up brewer cardinal and mahinmi all had a moment in the series out of nowhere and miami got nothing from bibby juwan or joel and they lost cause they did not play james jones and both haslem and chalmers should of played more
Wade was better than lebron in 2011 in 5 out of 100 games...
Tomislav Nikolić and happened to be the most important games
@@tnikoli40 were 4 of those 5 games in the finals cause Wade definitely outplayed LeBron in that series and would have won finals mvp so........
@@OhCanada613 his point was that in 2011 wade was better than lebron basing that statement on wade being better for 5% of the season.
I think Curry's one of those guys that kind of got lucky with his career. You know his ankles would have exploded and he would have been out of the league in 5 years if he went to the Knicks (partially because of the Knicks bad luck). Remember Curry was on such a team friendly deal for so long because he had ankle trouble for the first bit of his career.
Bill can't help but take over any podcast he's on lmao great one tho I was wondering where the 2009 redraft was.
The 2010 Cavs are better than the 2010 Celtics that's ridiculous
Listening to Lowe hating on DeRozan while he's averaging 27 a game at the all star break is kinda hilarious but I get it for the time. Just a couple years later it looks like a real bad take.
It was a bad take then too. Derozen was the best player on a consistent conference finalist. That may not be much but it's a greater impact than holiday. Not to mention how dismissive he is about DeMar ever after taking jrue. It's ridiculous. Those raptor teams were really good
It’s looking more accurate now
It’s looking more accurate now
@@julianbell9161 What do mean? He's averaging 25 5 5 on 51% shooting and is an all star at 33 years old.
It’s not that bad of a take. The bulls were WAAAAAAAAY overrated last year and they suck this year. The spurs weren’t good when they had him and the raptors were stuck in purgatory when they had him. Their point is he gets numbers and it doesn’t seem to make his team win basketball games.
jodie meeks lasted a decade and won the title with the raptors...hes done though..he was washed
Ty Lawson over Patty Mills wtf
Guys, stop with the "best version of his career". Your pick has the "best version" but the guys you pass you apparently doesn't? E.g. The best version of Ty Lawson is better than the best version of Tyreke Evans? Lowe, use your culture to fix Evans! This whole "best version" is just a cop out. The reason you are doing a re-draftable is that you now know how the gd career went. Use that!!!
Yes the best version of Lawson is def better.
Relax, it's not a real draft.
Maybe not having confidence to shoot is more fixable than whatever issues Evans had
lowe needs a video editor
Didn’t know demar stans existed but they’re here in these comments
I like the Ty Lawson pick. I totally disagree with Bull Summons, I think his career 20x this was the worst version by far
Bill Simmons thinks he is so damn smart and knows everything. If you go back to the NBA draft lottery show of 2009 Jay Bilas has Hasheem Thabeet as the second best available talent on his list. I think he had James Harden at 5 or 6 and Step Curry was like 9. NOONE knew that Harden and Curry were going to be the players they ended up being. Also the the Grizzlies had Mike Conley AND Kyle Lowry on their roster so there is no way in hell they were going to draft Step Curry who most "experts" at the time thought was a shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body. Also they had just drafted O.J. Mayo who had just led ALL rookies in scoring and was runner up ROY behind Derrick Rose..Kevin Love was not runner up to Derrick Rose like this idiot would have you believe. Back in the summer of 2009 if you had asked ANY GM who was the better prospect at that time O.J. Mayo or James Harden and ALL of them would have said Mayo...everyone of them. The Grizzlies also had a young Rudy Gay on the wing who needed touches. Yes, Marc Gasol had just finished his rookie season in the summer of 2009 and while he posted decent numbers his defense was absolutely HORRIBLE. He offered no rim protection AT ALL(that season the Grizzlies ranked dead last in points allowed in the paint) and this was an era in the NBA when big men still were king. His senior season at UConn Thabeet was an excellent shot blocker and rebounder...exactly what the young Grizzles needed at that time. Those are the reasons why in the summer of 2009 the Memphis Grizzles selected Hasheem Thabeet with the second overall pick and at the time why most didn't have a problem with it AT ALL.
The disrespect to Teague lol. Could've went as high as 6
DeRozen ... a shooting guard that doesn't shoot 3's or get steals.
An efficient 22/6/6 guy is fine
they're just shitting on Demar smh. i honestly would take him 4th. he's better than Jrue. i know Jrue is 2 way but Demar is a higer caliber overall
The James Harden take has aged like hot garbage.