Rapid Chargers Destroy Your Tool Batteries... Why? How Hot, How Quick, How Much???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ส.ค. 2022
- Do rapid chargers get too hot? Are they damaging your batteries? Is it really worth it?
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I charge all my batteries underwater to keep them cool.
Mineral oil!
@@toolscientist where’s the fun in that?
Unicorn tears work better.
@@Smokeyr67 massage oil then.
@@toolscientist yup. Cooled oil. Some grazy caming PCs use this kind of cooling.
I used to have one of those Makita 18v charger that played a few bars of Ludvig Van when the battery was charged, used to feel like the classiest bastard on site when it fired up. Have Hilti now, the bland fucking thing doesn't even beep..
Charging current drops steadily after the charge state hits about 80% as the charger switches from CC (Constant Current) to CV (Constant Voltage). Checking at the end of the charge will not show peak temperatures.
You should check the time to charge to 80%, multiply that time by 0.875 (7/8) and then check cell temperature at that time. This will show you the temperature at about 70% charge when the battery has had lots of time to heat up and is still charging at full rate.
Loving your channel! Keep up the awesome reviews and tests!
As the new XGT batteries have temperature telemetry, the charger can adjust charging current in addition to basic charging pattern of Li-ion cells.
That is why the 18V took longer to charge (no temperature telemetry)
In my opinion, the most damage to the batteries is over discharge and ander heavy load which bake the cells. Also charging a battery which came hot off the tool will eventually reduce it's life.
As always great video 👍
Even hot off the tool the rapid charger will cool the cells down before it even starts charging.... atleast the 18v rapid charger will give you a flashing red light meaning to hot to charge fan is cooling down the battery.
I think both the lxt and xgt has the same temp control charging process.
@@shortyorc121 so basically the 40v chargers are the best in the market right now?
Dewalt dosent have anything like this ☹️ maybe time for a brand change?....
@@mikerosoft1009 Hikoki/Metabo HPT chargers also have fans in them and will not charge a battery that is too hot.
I LOVE that Makita gives you rapid or dual rapid chargers with most of their kits. Milwaukee and DeWalt don't do that because they are greedy. They also don't have fans in nearly all of their chargers. Whenever I charge with a fan-less charger, I put a small portable fan right in front of the charger. Works like a dream, and it keeps the charger and battery essentially at ambient temp. RYOBI clip fan is great for this.
agree. Hikoki/MetaboHPT also does this in most kits. I was amazed when I put a 18/36V MV 8ah Battery on charge at the same time with a Dewalt 18V 3ah. And the 4/8ah MHPT finished first lol. Makita does well with this too. Most folks only see price. There's a reason for most things.
Putting a fan next to your charger is a bit pointless to the battery. It only cools down the charger, but it doesn’t cool down the battery cells inside the battery casing
Thanks for doing this video. I’m on the Bosch platform and one of my chargers GAL18V-160C gives you 4 different charging modes. Standard, Power Boost, Longlife & Storage. The Power Boost is really quick but it only charges at full current up to 50% charge before it switches to standard mode. That’s because charging between 50% to 80% produces the most heat. If I have plenty of time I usually use the Long Life mode, which only charges the battery up to 80% but also more slowly. I’ve actually been trying charge all my battery operated products like phones etc up to 80% for many years and have great long life. But if I need to charge on a job site I’ll use the standard mode. I’ve only used the Power Boost mode a few times when it was really needed. I’ve never used the storage mode but that mode only charges your battery up to 50% since lithium batteries don’t like being stored for long periods at full charge.
I’ve studied electronics as a hobbyist and from what I’ve learnt you shouldn’t charge a battery at more than 1C for the best battery life. So in other words, fast charging an 8amp battery at 8amps(1C) charge current would be ok, but fast charging a 4amp battery at 8amps(2C) charge would not be good for long life. I’m hoping that the tools manufacturers take the amp hour of the battery into consideration before it charges but I doubt it. I might have to test this but I do know that the Bosch charger varies the charge current depending on the battery temperature.
While high discharge rates like using your battery on a grinder will also produce a lot of heat and shorten its lifetime. High charging temperature is not the only problem. When you charge a lithium battery at high current, it starts to form something called Lithium Dendrite AKA Lithium plating on the negative electrode and this will also reduce the battery capacity and life. It can also cause internal shorts.
I guess everyone’s going to be different and if time is money then sacrificing battery life by fast charging may be the more cheaper option for some people.
One last thing, I don’t know if you would bother doing another video on this but if you do, are you able to check the battery temp once it reaches 80% charge, rather than 100%.
Thanks again for your video. Hands down the best tool channel on TH-cam!!
Thanks for the info..... appreciated 👍🏻
As long as I can recharge a battery in the amount of time it takes to drain one I’m happy.
I just got a drill and impact kit and it came with the standard charger. I thought it was the rapid one because it says "fast charger" on the bottom. Deal was hard to pass up though...40v impact, hammer drill/driver (not the top of the line one) 2x2AH batteries + charger with FREE 4AH battery and FREE inflator for $660 CAD taxes included.
Also when i charged all the batteries with the standard charger the fan stayed on the entire time.
The general rule of thumb is to charge these types of batteries at 1C, or one charge capacity per hour. Going to 2C means it’s charged in only 30 minutes but it does shorten real capacity and cycle lifespan. So the 8ah is happy on the fast charger while the smaller ones aren’t as much.
Love the review , I’ve always rapid charged my 18 and never had problems 👍
Love the videos wish I had as many makita tools as you, not as much range in the Uk, keep it going!!!!
I like the feature on the Bosch 16A charger to stop the batteries at 80%, can leave it on the charger without worry of damaging it over time - they should definitely add that to these.
Just now watching this video for the first time. It prompted me to look for a battery checker. To my surprise they are readily available on eBay. About $260. Not too shabby! I might need to invest in one.
Haven't you watched my battery checker videos?
One thing I would add to your idea of adjustable charging rate is adjustable charge cut off. I'm sure a lot of people would like having the ability to charge a battery to a specific level for long storage without having to sit at the charger to take the battery off.
How about the option to charge batterie upto 80% (like my samsung phone) to increase batterie life for "home users"..... not in company's best interests but good for home users, they might increase sales with that and a "vari-charge" option..... all good idears for 1 time buyers every 10 years or so.....
Wonder if you put 2 of the same batttery on the dual charger, if one side always charges faster
I don't know why people worry about heat with the lxt or xgt platforms. The batteries have built in circuit board that monitors the Temps of the batteries as well as the tools.
The charger and batties communicate with each other to make sure that Temps are in a safe normal range.
If you have a hot to the touch battery instead of letting the battery cook itself and spend hours in its own heat throw it on a rapid charger so the charger will blow cool air on the cells and get the heat off them.. once the heat is within range the charger will then charge the battery.
I never knew this technology exhisted.... i have a 18v dewalt cordless drill with a sealed battery charger that gets very hot charging up batteries...... time for a change, i just love this technology 🙂👍🏻❤️
On the slow 40v battery, it’s 5 degrees cooler but it’s at heat for double the time right ? That could be worse but I got no idea about batteries
"Its at heat for double the time"..... i think that at a slower rate, there would be less heat as such during charging ?
That jukebox part is golden! :D
Back to the 70's and comadore 64 tunes
Appreciate this one! I'd be curious to see the difference between Milwaukee's standard charger, rapid charger, and supercharger.
Rapid charging doesn't make much of a difference for me. I've got enough batteries that I'm never waiting on a battery to charge.
I know for all my other batteries in my life, when I can control it, I slow charge. It's made a huge difference on my cell phone turning off all fast charging.
Hello,
It is not so much about the temperature but charging current instead. Yes, higher current does increase temperature but that is not really a factor as long as we are not talking about temepratures 2-3 folds higher what you are seeing.
As others said, charging for over one hour is not really a fast charge rate. Charging in half hour would put more strain on the battery. And your ambient temperature is really low. If you do the charging at 35 Celsius ambient, the slower charge + cooling fan would make a bigger difference I guess.
Great video, but I would love to see what the temperature does on a hot battery right off a tool. Also knowing the ambient temperature would be helpful so we know what to expect on a hot day.
I have done that on a previous video.
wow you read my mind, I was looking forward to this video!
I'm so glad!
@@BuildsStuff I would just maybe prefer slower charger for 2ah 40v batteries as they are being charged much faster than larger ones, but they do usually come in the kit together.
@@riba2233 the charger might adjust for diff batts. They have digital comms so the charger knows what batt it's charging. We could prob figure it out from the charging times divided by Ah
@@toolscientist it might, but I don't think it does, look at the specified charging times for both chargers. On faster one 2ah is being charged at like 3C rate which is imho just too much
I know you mentioned it, but I actually thought there was a way on the fast chargers to make them charge slow.
I think.... for a "home user".... who wants to lookafter their batteries that cost them loads, then "slow charge" is a good idear to preserve their hardly used batteries....
For "on site" slow charge is completly impractical.....
HI B&S I have a 18v rapid charger and a 40V rapid charger with an adapter for the 18v. Which charger would you use to charge an 18V battery ??
The 40v chargers charge quicker with the adaptor, but not much quicker (seen a video on this channel)
I would love a fanless 40V slow charger. I have two of the fast chargers at the moment and the noise makes it hard to think in the same room. One fast and one slow would be perfect for me.
Change the fans then with computer ones, they are many times quieter 🙂
Fascinating 🤔
how many amps is rated the 40v chargers? I know the 18v RC is rated at 9amps - far more than other RC's from the competition
6Amps for 40v and 12Amps when charging an 18v!
Builds & Stuff the normal charger is better because the lower the charging current, the more energy the battery will store.
p.s. I have not seen any published data on the cutoff current during charging
You REALLY like charging batteries :)
Do you think the adapter is playing a part in the time it is taking
It will use up energy whilst it "steps down" the voltage from 40v to 18v
I have a 40V DC40RA charger - when I put the 40v 4.0ah battery on it the large light flashes BLUE and then flashes RED and beeps continuously, then it stops flashing and beeping but stays RED and the fan isn't going. Does it mean the charger is faulty or the battery?
It's the battery. Clean the contacts on the battery with some fine sandpaper, the slowly wiggle the battery onto the charger until the blue light comes on and try and leave the battery on an angle. You only get 3 shots of fixing it. If the red light comes on 3 times in a row the charger will say the battery is bad forever.
The dual charger plays the tune much longer than the single type. So Great if your hearing ain't as good as it used to be !
Does all these chargers have trickle charge feature?
No.
It's not about the heat, it's about dendrite formation inside the battery cells. Rapid charging accelerates the dendrite formation in the battery.
This is the information I gleaned from a battery rabbit hole dive a year or so ago. Prof good enough that invented the lithium ion battery has actually backed a new design that would make this problem a thing of the past.
When ?
@@mohammedisaa9952 few years ago he was collaborating with some woman on it. It was something along the lines of blocking each pole of the battery with a thin membrane which should technically make the battery not work... Yet it still worked and was insanely more efficient. Just Google good enough new lithium ion battery design
A "vari-rate" charger (patent applied for) 😂😂😂 Good idear, i guess it would only take a switch with a resistor wired up lol...
Simple things can sometimes make the biggest smiles 👍🏻 i would buy that addition.
При медленном зарядном, плотность заряда будет выше.
На пару минут, АКБ будет дольше работать.
Либо сыпать камни быстро, либо сложить вручную,
Вручную камней в ёмкости (ведре) будет больше по количеству.
?
Seems like the adapter might effect the results
I have a four bay Makita charger 😊
And now you should repeat the test when ambient temperature is 22-25 Celsius
Been waiting for that comment.
Define chilly in NZ?
Where I live under 15°C is chilly, under 10 is Bloody Cold, Under 5 Fuck That, Under 0°C Thankfully never happens.
Dont live in uk..... its eaisily 0°C if not less in winter..... more north can get to -40 °C in winter...... (Ukraine etc)
I've got 3 40v chargers and it sounds like a power station when all the fans are going..
Change the fans for computer fans, they are quieter... make sure they are also bushless 🙂👍🏻
I rather stop charging at 85% it that last top up pressure that kills lithium, speed not so important if you have buffer batteries
😂😂😂😂 Well Holy shit bro! I was wondering how to get the sound on! I probably could have read the manual but who does that ae Gaston! 😂😂
Who's Gaston?
@@BuildsStuff the tool guy from Scott Brown Carpentry. Piranha Tools.
A french chef i think?
@BuildsStuff the tool man from Scott brown carpentry's videos. He always says to read the manual.
Я снял видео по изменению тока заряда на DC40RA. Ток уменьшить удалось с 6.3A, до 3.3A.
Монтаж видео еще не сделал.
Интересно было бы глянуть
@@drunkmasterbe хорошо, я напишу, как монтаж сделаю и выложу
Maybe in english would help many people..... thank you.
should be common sense a rapid charge which isnt really all that rapid wont hurt the batteries, its not like its boiling them to a full charge in 10 minutes dumping 100amps into them
but we do drain them dead in under 10 minutes pulling over 100amps peak out of them and they get hot doing that but nobody debates useage rate only charge rate and only because the companies call them "rapid"
take the same chargers and like you joked call them "slow" and "standard" leave out the word rapid and all of a sudden everyone will agree the faster charger has no downsides
milwuakee even went to a "super charger" that doubles the output of their rapid charger on larger batteries.. and people still argue the rapid charger kills the batteries when milwaukee endorses dumping double the amps into them than a rapid can
Why didn’t you use the batteries and chargers from all the brands I think it’s stupid you only doing makita just fork out the money for all of them
Obviously playing with ya , great video boss
Had me in the first half not gonna lie.
LOL, good thing I pressed "show more" before blasting off a response...😁
"Fork out the money"..... ive actually read something like that on some other channel that tests tools....
What some people want and expect when they pay nothing, not even click like is beyond me....?????
I think you'll get different results if you check temps after 1 hour of charging both
. ПЕРВЫЙ Я 👍
MAKITA RULES ✊
Thanks for the review video on chargers.✊
You should had get a knockoff Makita charger and knockoff Makita battery.
They dont exist yet i think.
@@julianweiser9985 The 18V ones exist. Both fake single and double ones as far as I remember.
Yes.... ive seen them..... and they are 90% as good at 60% of the price.....
I'm not a tradie, so I invested in a double slow charger., a decision I don't regret. But if I was one, I agree: I'd pick the fast charger any day of the week. These things are after all considered "consumables" by Makita, hence they only get a year's guarantee anyway. I think Four LED bars on a battery is a little bit crude. For example, if it has four bars illuminated, that means the charge level could be anywhere between 76% and 100%. If you're gonna do this sort of anal-ysis, you might in the future want to consider using a voltmeter to give yourself a more accurate indication of what the charge is. When my tool (DCF102 fan) considers the charge too low to continue using and it cuts off, the voltage across the terminals at that point is 14.6V. And when it comes off the charger, it measures about 20.5V.
How much of this video did you actually watch?
@@BuildsStuff All of it, but my attention and observation are not great on videos over 10 min. Okay, I've seen your voltmeter readout now.
DC18SH are easy to get in this neck of the woods. Fastfix have got them for only £36.