Hey Fang Gang, After editing I thought I should double check if Astarion really does approve of the opposite option with Cazador. So I reloaded a file for y'all. It will be live after this episode is complete: th-cam.com/video/Uhlcbn9QPJ4/w-d-xo.html
astarion is the perfect example of chaotic neutral he doesn't swing one side he isn't good or evil he just does whatever he wants to do which most of the time is whatever ammuses him which I can respect
@@MrPhil501 i think that's precisely the point. He was ruled entirely by fear, so much so that he willingly turns into the person he hates the most just to never fear anything ever again.
Interesting to note how many times Wyll's the one that wants to instigate fights but Astarion won't approve or disapprove either way, he'll just do what you decide they're gonna do.
@@kiterafrey makes sense that he would, he made a pact so he could fight evil, and as far as he knows karlac is evil, but the second he realizes that he's wrong about her he changes his mind so much so that he also aproves of karlac joining the party, and apparently more than anyone else
I always love how the haters constantly say that "he approves only of evil things" and is an evil aligned character... Like in order to say that you have to completely ignore that practically half of his approval points are for doing good things. He's just a chaotic neutral character that loves chaotic solutions and most people doing good route don't choose them cause they want to learn about the entire plot or are just role playing a standard lawful good goody two shoes. I also love how the haters constantly bring up that he approves of some evil choices which according to them means he "wants to do them himself" and is irredeemable but then will in the same comment also say that he is evil because he wants to "ascend" while Astarion only ever gives approval for not ascending. I just wished people would at least stay consistent.
Personally my preferred statement would be “He *STARTS OFF* as an evil aligned character”. Not everything he approves of is evil aligned, but most are, usually in Act 1. But the cool thing is his preferred decisions get more complex starting around the beginning of Act 2 I feel. And if you follow through with helping him, then very similar to Lae’Zel (and Shadowheart to an extent; those two really are two sides of the same coin, her and Lae’Zel that is) you can push him away from that path and make him chaotic neutral and eventually chaotic good by killing Cazador without acceding. Or if you link that whole evil thing you can make him follow in Cazador’s footprints, but idk why people would do that.
@@Vegeta241 Astarion has a beautiful character arc. He still comes out the other end chaotic but more neutral or god, depending on which romance ending you choose. If you choose the lead in the Spawn ending, the narration leans him more toward being a fair and just leader, so he is more chaotic good in that ending, whereas in the Adventuring ending, looking for a sunlight curse cure, he is still more Chaotic Neutral.
@@Vegeta241 I will say...some people like to ascend him for...um...h0rney reasons. Neil really nailed the sub/dom k!nk. I personally dislike his personality ascended, but sometimes I'll save scum just to hear him ask, "Do you want to be mine...forever."
@@Vegeta241I agree that his character development is great but still disagree with you. If Astarion from the start is chaotic evil what does that make AA? I consider Astarion from the start chaotic neutral since while he approves of evil deeds he also approves of chaotic good deeds, like a typical neutral character. Take Arabella situation for example. When Kagha threatens her he does actually want to help her.... by killing Kagha and not by talking her out of it. The solution is chaotic and nobody really takes it but he still wants to side at that moment with the kid which is a "good motive". Or take the goblins he doesn't want to help the tieflings or promise anything and can even give approval for saying that you betray the grove but he also wants to betray and kill every single goblin later and gives more approval points for siding with the grove which is again something good. Then we also have duergar situation. He complains and wants you to say that you want to purchase a slave but he also wants it to be a lie and for you to immediately attack and kill the duergars... And killing the duergars in the end seems like something that is a good route choice. Because of this I think he starts as a very chaotic neutral and later can change into chaotic evil (AA) or become a slightly better person (I'm not sure whether he can be considered chaotic good as a spawn but he certainly is much closer to it that at the beginning and the epilogue indicates that he helps people and is now a hero)
but as seeing approval i honestly want this be an entire series. everyone you can romance, wyll, gale, layzel, Showdow heart, hanslin and the others u slowly add into I want to see if theres even an all approval ending for the 4 later on act 2-3 addable charcters
The only main character I can't do it with is The Emperor, all other romances & camp companions have the approval system. I'm just not sure who I should do next, I've got burning question about each ❤️
@@kiterafrey I'd like to do halsin, gale, and wylls like this. unfortunately I play on PS5 and don't think i can download the mod for this. :( Therefore, I'll have to patiently wait til you post them LOL
I find it interesting that astarion likes some of the actions caused by tav's urge to kill, but when he finds out tav is a bhaalspawn, he says "don't become his" and tells them they'll find a way out of this.
Ironically, the one other choice I mentioned in my conclusion that was only related to The Dark Urge was Astarion making me become Bhaal's. It was the, if I must so I don't die option. Talking to him after he was sad and wished I could've escaped my master. I did count it in my final total of 3 true evil choices despite not having it captured to show.
He was ready to support your bloodthirstiness if it was your choice and quirk, but being made to kill by a master pulling your strings - hits way too close to home for him.
Thank you for doing this! I've been playing with approvals on for a long time, because I'm highly entertained by who approves of what. (Everyone approves of calling Wulbren a prick except Halsin???) Karlach shares approval with Astarion on a lot of things, and no one is calling her evil.
Apologies for the sounds in the background in the early scenes, my mic was muted but my web cam, though the video feed off, was still capturing audio 😅
Honestly, only 22 minutes in and including the disclaimer I feel like his behavior of hypersexualization kind of tracks with his trauma. Along with the more you treat him like a person, the more he grows comfortable with being around you and wanting to be around you which makes the story a whole lot more real and makes him much more human as a character even if he's a vampire spawn I hope the entire video that's 3 hours long goes along with that narrative and confirms my opinion
i personally really like Astarion in any playthrough because i have personally had a lot of sexual trauma and being SA'd in my childhood over 10 times if i remember correctly. But i just find him really relatable and honestly a likeable charecter because he is genuinky so chaotic and yet non chaotic at the same time.
From this I would say the 1st evil choise was to kill the tieflings to save Lae'zel. Especially considering how easy it is to save her without a fight.
It's definitely an up-to-player morality type of moment. I, personally, didn't see it as evil. In hindsight, we, as the players, know how easy it is not to kill them. But, in the game, in the mindset of the characters, we wouldn't know that as we wouldn't have hindsight. You'd act in a situation where someone you know (as we met her on the ship) is in danger. I personally, if I was in Faerune, would've automatically attacked the people who attacked and captured the woman who saved me on the ship. I wouldn't know how easy it would be to trick them, and I wouldn't be willing to risk their hurting her. So, to me, it wasn't evil. To me, for an act to be evil, we'd have to know ahead of time the innocence of someone and then willingly slay them for our own personal gains - like slaying the gnomes in the forge. But evil isn't cut and dry. Not in the game and not in real life, so morality is highly dependent on the PC's personal feelings.
The main takeaway I’m taking from this video is that there are hidden approval points you can get without the pop up… popping up. That’s crazy. I’m playing on PS5, so I can’t get any mods. I mean… most of these hidden approval points are just plus 1, but still, it’s fascinating that even if the game isn’t telling you, you can still gain and lose approval based on decisions. Also, hoping I’m not asking too much, but the main thing about Astarion’s approval that I’m curious about is with Yurgir. Does Astarion’s approval choices change based on if he’s talked to Raphael or not? I did my first playthrough without Astarion meeting him at Last Light or outside the mausoleum. So he didn’t really have a reason to kill the orthon.
Yes & no. So if you never make a deal for the scars info he'll still approve of you attacking the Orthon, but he will not disapprove of you not automatically not killing the orthon. However, the mod will still display the possible points the same. Lae'zel has DRASTICALLY different approvals and disapprovals if you side with Vlakkith vs Orpheus, the choices shows approve amd disapprove for each option constantly and I have to guess which she'll be. So even with the mod I have to test things for some characters or replay scenes to ensure I stick to the no disapprove rule. It happems to everyone (but Karlach) for choices that happen after their turning points. Lae'zel post Creche Shart post Aylin Astarion post Cazador Gale post boat on the river scene Wyll post his second deal
@@kiterafreyThere is one more thing I love about Astarion though, and thankfully you can get it from the romantic OR Platonic path; the call back to a previous line from when he first drank your blood. “This is a gift, you know. I won’t forget it.” His inflections are totally different from the first bite vs after beating Cazador and not ascending. Plus in the later he genuinely thanks you.
That was a huge work, thank you for doing that ❤ After 100 approval rate the ratings do not appear, so second half of the game was a mistery to me about his approvals, even though i romanced Astarion 5 times already 😂 I also kind of expected him to be more malicious, and that surprised me. And i also have a memory of disapproving us when we protect Isobel, wonder if it was changed or we all suffer from false memory syndrome 😅
Thank you ❤️ It isn't a false memory, I went and tested all the options when ppl started saying that. He does have an approval it just isn't right away, you have to follow a branching narrative which wasn't the branch I chose since I was able to pick anything I want if a branch has no approvals or disapprovals, and I just lucked into a path without his disapproval for saving her.
@@kosharovka I meant a different mod. It creates notification banners to tell you all companion approval after dialogue even if they are at 100%. There is even a variant that puts it in the combat log and tells you the percentage increase or decrease (which is useful on the controller). Since "Gale approves" no longer pops up in the upper left for me rather early in the game, it is nice to see it afterwards. Plus, it helps me see where other companions lie in relation to each other.
@@HeadDetectiveLassie I do have it downloaded but when I was recording I couldn't get it to sync but the mod that caused that sync issue I no longer use so my next filming, so multiple videos from now, I should have that solved 🤞
All vampires are evil aligned, Astarion is no different he approves and favors siding with the goblins against the grove, siding against the harper convoy/ killing Isobel, and betraying Aylin in act 3. The thing that bothers me, is when doing a "good" ending with him he genuinely hates you if you aren't partnered with him in the epilogue and is only happy if he has you.
But at Cazador dungeon, when you meet Sebastian you get an option to ask if he can control his hunger, Astarion Approves If you ask him this, I'm not saying vampires aren't evil aligned but maybe vampire spawn aren't as they can't do anything unless the master commands them to normally 'Astarion illithid tadpole changed that'
If only his plotline had a group of people who also believed all vampires are evil aligned and then were surprised (in spawn path) that Astarion proved them wrong and they changed their entire belief system about vampires around his actions and write him a letter in the epilogue specifically detailing how they know their kids can also be good because of him. If only.
Bit of a nitpick, but her name is Araj -- not Araja. Thank you for doing this video. I'm not interested in modding the game, but it's fun to see some of the less predictable Astarion reacts.
Spoiler............... when playing Dark Urge, if you use non lethal damage to knock Alfira out right before you sleep when she usually gets killed by you, a dragonborn lady will show up instead. Then Alfira will survive. This requires saving your game before you sleep every time till that scene. Obviously, only if you're doing a redemption for your Durge.
Me unintentionally doing this challenge on my first playthrough cost me an entire ass questline…rip halsin (I didn’t see anything in this vid about the fact that he approves when you encourage the goblin children to throw rocks at halsin in bear form down in the worg pens)
Because I had to pick all his first choices. If you attack the goblin leaders before the pins the goblins in it will attack you instantly if your slaying of their leader was known. I did include showing the goblins in the pits attack me upon entering. Doing the first in the carousel of choices can cut off other branched narratives with approvals, for example in act 2 if you go the the Dryder or Last Light first changes if he'll kill the Harpers of not.
2/ Sadly cuz it branches I couldn’t do every choice ever, only every choice as it popped up. 😕 but thank god my aggro was big cuz I got to keep Halsin until Bhaal & Orin
I had to do the same, my hubby kept accepting quests and accidentally chicken-blocking me on our first run. It's worth the solo file to chase your vampling
I could understand Lae'zel, she's very just suck it up and take it solider type. Gale shocked me. And if you ask Astarion why by saying you're surprised, Shadowheart will then disapprove as well if you give Astarion the right to choose. I discovered that in my Shadowheart approvals only run. It broke my heart.
Sadly, the mod is no longer on Nexxus. I believe the creator took it down to work on because of Patch 7, but as I'm not them IDK if it'll ever come back up. So right now, only those who have already downloaded it have access to it as once downloaded you have a copy of the file forever (unless you delete it.) You can watch this link to see if it comes back after Patch 7 drops: www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
@@kiterafrey Neat! Thank you so much! You have a lot of backgrounds to cover, so good luck! I always wondered how much inspiration you get from being a guild artisan or an urchin.
@@Karomix3 Solo they're all pretty even depending on how to play. Some do better like a Bard has more unique dialog options that give inspo for entertainers for example. If you really want to crank out inspo tho, the key is to be the same background as the companion you'll use in party the most because you both get inspo.
@@kiterafrey Yeah I know, I also tend to use the hirelings with the same backgrounds as the companions, like Astarion and that duergar lady both being Charlatans, or the tiefling druid being a Folk Hero. I know a lot in the act 1 for some companions, and so far the Noble background makes me laugh quite a bit, like you immediatly get inspiration the moment you hear Astarion says he was a Magistrate, when you get your first soul coin, when you do your first bribe with gold, or when you hire the Ogres, or getting Sovereign Spaw to get give you a title, or and when you save Florrick and when you also get Volo to your camp, of all things. XD
I had to watch this video twice and watching it still makes me cry experiencing how astarian reacts to certain things. Just absolutely breaks me One thing I do want to know is what race was picked for the tav character that's not entirely human in my opinion
@@renm4779 It might be because most of my choices in the goblin camp Wyll approved of, ironically he has a lot in common with Astarion. But it is also somewhat RNG who'll chime in so I might have just kept getting Wyll as my random response selection.
The night song decision like you mentioned I don’t think is so much *evil* as *not having context* Balthazar explained she was in a soul cage or whatever but he didn’t really explain that the soul cage ITSELF is what allows Ketheric to harness her power? I think you could read it as “this holds her down” basically it’s what’s keeping her prisoner but not necessarily what is keeping her tethered to Ketheric. I may have missed something in the dialogue that was more concrete but I think these choices led to NOT getting that info. I usually kill Balthazar before getting to nightsong and I feel like the dialogue is different then. I wonder if his approval is also different if Balthazar is already gone at that point 🤔 Also, it’s about supporting Shadowheart’s agency. He knows Shadowheart wants this and I think he would kind of disapprove of anyone trying to coerce her into a different decision because to him that’s taking away her agency and her choice. Similar to with the drow, if you don’t specifically say “do it, bite her” but you say “I’m surprised you aren’t interested in more power” … I *believe* he still breaks up with you even if he turns her down because he views it as coercion. Even if you don’t intend it that way and then are panicking trying to figure out why he dumped you 😅😅
So in the drow bite you can say you're surprised he would pass up the chance to bite her, he asks to step aside a moment and tells you she smells rank. If you say anything but "don't do anything you don't want to do" after that point he does dump you. I discovered that on the Shadowheart run sadly 😭
U Probably didn't noticed but just in case. At 1:11:08 any reason why you didn't went with " what do i get in return if I give it to you ?" Cause that was the top choice he approved
It was just a choice, in the rules if multiple have approvals I pick the highest value or if they're the same value I can whichever. Both were a 1. But I did end up picking both as my first choice didn't remove "what do I get" which I then asked next.
I am using the mod linked. However, the creator has it temporarily removed to work on for the new patch. I don't know when it'll be back but anyone who's downloaded it already still has it. www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
I hope they put it back up so others can also use it. I had to crack it open to adjust it for patch 7 for my game, so my guess is they took it down to do the same thing.
I can’t help but wonder if in the end your rule about how you handled what your character says when he doesn’t have an approval score affects it. Usually when I want him to complete the ritual, I don’t do that much clicking. I just keep him focused, I don’t even talk to the children. So if in the end…if you had just kept him focused on finishing the ritual…what would the approval score have been? You basically just got a 2 for talking him out of it…could you have gotten more if you just did what he asked without questioning him?
You're not wrong, but it is more than just the stuff in the palace. It is how you play the game as a whole. To explain, if you recall in the video I said he had a disapproval but also an approval. The mod only shows the code that is always there, but not which will be active. Which means before every scene I had to save to ensure it didn't end up that I was the disapprovals tract when those would happen, I wanted to make sure I stayed true to only approvals even if that meant replaying a scene. -- Every character as this, Lae'zel being the worst as after the Creche, nearly ALL of her choices are approvals and disapproval and I have to guess which she'll be depending on if she chose Orpheus or Vlakkith. -- For Astarion, if you don't romance him and make mostly evil choices in the game as you PC he'll disapprove here because he feels you don't trust him. It can also happen if you mainly make dialog choices encouraging him to do the ritual rather than just encouraging him to seek his freedom or just saying you'll support him, because then he'll feel betrayed. I am unsure what the number balance is, just those are required to get the disapproval to activate as I've gotten that to happen on a file where I didn't romance him as well as a file where I was doing an evil run. So, if you're skipping the stuff in the palace that builds his character up and you've also been making less than heroic choices, you've probably gotten enough points into his B-story, Ascended, to trigger the disapproval here instead. Everyone but Karlach has something like this. Shadowheart: If you kill Aylin her approvals change. La'ezel: If you side with Vlakkith her approvals change. Wyll: If you pick being the Duke his approvals change. If you kill Karlach his approvals change. Gale: If you encourage him to be a God his approvals change. Astarion: If you Ascend him or push him to ascend his approvals change. But for all of them these are their B-stories, so you have to put in a LOT of work doing things they don't approve of to get inactions to push them into their B-stories.
@@kiterafrey thank you for such a thoughtful response! I really appreciate it. When mods come the PS5, I hope this mod is there so I can see how it affects my games. I really enjoyed your video.
This is where I got the mod, however it is no longer available so only those with it already installed have it. www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
The mod is no longer on Nexxus, likely the maker is making changes to accommodate patch 7. www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027 But when it is back up this is the link. But as I already had it downloaded I still have it.
Sadly, the mod is no longer on Nexxus. I believe the creator took it down to work on because of Patch 7, but as I'm not them IDK if it'll ever come back up. So right now, only those who have already downloaded it have access to it as once downloaded you have a copy of the file forever (unless you delete it.) You can watch this link to see if it comes back after Patch 7 drops: www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
When you only try to get maximum approval from everybody, you will end up nowhere. You just can not avoid negative approvals -- live with it. You still can romance everybody if you like. In my first playthough, I did not care if anybody approved, but did the right thing in my eyes. Still had about 100 approval at my three main companions at the end, maybe some times 99 for some, but who cares, it is the same. Even Astarion was happy to not have ascended, even when I did have real low approval with him, because I never used him besides his personal quest and I also disagreed with him most of the time, because of his somewhat dark base alignment. If I wished to have everybody's full approval, than I should not even save SH in the Nautoloid (I know, no negatives here, because it is not a real choice), because Laezel wants to move on. I should not take both into my party, because they basically disagree in everything at the beginning. But by doing so, I give both a chance to overcome their feud. What do you get, when Astarion approves everywhere: Nightsong dead, all Tieflings dead, nearly everybody in the Last Lights Inn dead. Possible more (I did not watch your full movie) Hurrah!
The point of the challenge wasn't romancing everyone. It was setting parameters to test the outcomes in those parameters, like I will for each character with approvals. And spoilers since you didn’t watch, no one else dies after Nightsong, he only has two evil approvals and Nightsong was the last.
@@kiterafrey First of all, I did understand your challenge and I did not attack your challenge at all. There are several more or less interesting challenges out there, most of I am not interested in and I do not comment. Second, I just wanted to comment about the approval system per se, because some think, they must have max approval and minimize disapproval. Wrong. Third, as much I saw the barrier of the Last Lights Inn was broken because of Nightsong killed, so everybody there was killed by the shadows, if you have seen that or not. That is also the reason, you do not get support from the Harpers at Moonrise, because there is none left (besides maybe Jahira). Those deaths where traded in for a (as much I remember) +1 approval from Astarion! 🥶
@@What_do_I_Think You are correct, it was a +1 for Nightsong. My statement was just that after Nightsong, the only approval/disapproval that could lead to death with Astarion was him choosing to stay a Spawn and not kill the 7k souls. I didn't think you were attacking me, but did think you might've misunderstood the point of the challenge. I'm sorry I misunderstood the situation.
When I played I did try to get maximum approval of everyone. Once I figured out the complexities of the approval system however, my goal officially changed to “Just get their approval as high as possible, even if everyone isn’t maxed out, as long as they don’t hate me, that’s fine”. With this mindset… I came surprisingly close on my run playing on the PS5. I had “exceptional” approval (which I assume is max on PS5, or at the very least in the highest possible area) for Shadowheart, Lae’Zel, Gale, Wyll, Karlach, Halsin and Jaheira. The only two, or I guess three, that definitely did not have max approval by the end of my first playthrough were Astarion, Minsc, and Minthara. Even so though, Astarion and Minsc were in the “very high” category. Astarion I usually used the least because I already had a core three and it felt like he wouldn’t help with much decisions, but bringing him to places he felt important helped get high approval. Minsc sadly had the problem Karlach had in act 1, where he joined way too late and I was done with most things. But I guess, similar to Halsin and Jaheira, there are decisions you can make that get him ridiculous amounts of approval… I guess I just missed out on getting enough. As for Minthara, yeah she was the one character whose approval absolutely tanked for me, like it got super low because of my decisions. I can’t be 100% sure, but I think the true major blow was when I killed her at the Goblin Camp in order to save Halsin, but who knows really?
Hey Fang Gang, After editing I thought I should double check if Astarion really does approve of the opposite option with Cazador. So I reloaded a file for y'all. It will be live after this episode is complete: th-cam.com/video/Uhlcbn9QPJ4/w-d-xo.html
The voice actor excelled at giving us such a cute Astarion!
astarion is the perfect example of chaotic neutral he doesn't swing one side he isn't good or evil he just does whatever he wants to do which most of the time is whatever ammuses him which I can respect
I really like Astarion, but if he ascends I get casador vibes.
"Now now, let's not do anything hilarious."
@@MrPhil501 i think that's precisely the point. He was ruled entirely by fear, so much so that he willingly turns into the person he hates the most just to never fear anything ever again.
@@MrPhil501 cause he acts exactly like cazador. many AA girlies fail to see that because how hot Astarion looks when you ascend him
How bad you simping for Astarion?
Me: Yes
The only correct answer
Me too 😅
Interesting to note how many times Wyll's the one that wants to instigate fights but Astarion won't approve or disapprove either way, he'll just do what you decide they're gonna do.
Wyll also approves of killing Karlach, that one got me messed up
@@kiterafrey Oh, no… If you have a video like this on Wyll, that’ll be a sad day for both Wyll and Karlach fans
@@KeitieKalopsia Yeah, I'm dreading when it's time to release Wyll's cuz I ship them so hard
@@kiterafrey They’re literally perfect for each other but unfortunately they’re also star crossed in a way
@@kiterafrey makes sense that he would, he made a pact so he could fight evil, and as far as he knows karlac is evil, but the second he realizes that he's wrong about her he changes his mind so much so that he also aproves of karlac joining the party, and apparently more than anyone else
I always love how the haters constantly say that "he approves only of evil things" and is an evil aligned character... Like in order to say that you have to completely ignore that practically half of his approval points are for doing good things. He's just a chaotic neutral character that loves chaotic solutions and most people doing good route don't choose them cause they want to learn about the entire plot or are just role playing a standard lawful good goody two shoes.
I also love how the haters constantly bring up that he approves of some evil choices which according to them means he "wants to do them himself" and is irredeemable but then will in the same comment also say that he is evil because he wants to "ascend" while Astarion only ever gives approval for not ascending. I just wished people would at least stay consistent.
Haters are only consistent in one thing...being a jelly hater 😈
Personally my preferred statement would be “He *STARTS OFF* as an evil aligned character”. Not everything he approves of is evil aligned, but most are, usually in Act 1. But the cool thing is his preferred decisions get more complex starting around the beginning of Act 2 I feel. And if you follow through with helping him, then very similar to Lae’Zel (and Shadowheart to an extent; those two really are two sides of the same coin, her and Lae’Zel that is) you can push him away from that path and make him chaotic neutral and eventually chaotic good by killing Cazador without acceding. Or if you link that whole evil thing you can make him follow in Cazador’s footprints, but idk why people would do that.
@@Vegeta241 Astarion has a beautiful character arc. He still comes out the other end chaotic but more neutral or god, depending on which romance ending you choose. If you choose the lead in the Spawn ending, the narration leans him more toward being a fair and just leader, so he is more chaotic good in that ending, whereas in the Adventuring ending, looking for a sunlight curse cure, he is still more Chaotic Neutral.
@@Vegeta241 I will say...some people like to ascend him for...um...h0rney reasons. Neil really nailed the sub/dom k!nk. I personally dislike his personality ascended, but sometimes I'll save scum just to hear him ask, "Do you want to be mine...forever."
@@Vegeta241I agree that his character development is great but still disagree with you. If Astarion from the start is chaotic evil what does that make AA? I consider Astarion from the start chaotic neutral since while he approves of evil deeds he also approves of chaotic good deeds, like a typical neutral character. Take Arabella situation for example. When Kagha threatens her he does actually want to help her.... by killing Kagha and not by talking her out of it. The solution is chaotic and nobody really takes it but he still wants to side at that moment with the kid which is a "good motive". Or take the goblins he doesn't want to help the tieflings or promise anything and can even give approval for saying that you betray the grove but he also wants to betray and kill every single goblin later and gives more approval points for siding with the grove which is again something good. Then we also have duergar situation. He complains and wants you to say that you want to purchase a slave but he also wants it to be a lie and for you to immediately attack and kill the duergars... And killing the duergars in the end seems like something that is a good route choice.
Because of this I think he starts as a very chaotic neutral and later can change into chaotic evil (AA) or become a slightly better person (I'm not sure whether he can be considered chaotic good as a spawn but he certainly is much closer to it that at the beginning and the epilogue indicates that he helps people and is now a hero)
but as seeing approval i honestly want this be an entire series. everyone you can romance, wyll, gale, layzel, Showdow heart, hanslin and the others u slowly add into I want to see if theres even an all approval ending for the 4 later on act 2-3 addable charcters
The only main character I can't do it with is The Emperor, all other romances & camp companions have the approval system.
I'm just not sure who I should do next, I've got burning question about each ❤️
@@kiterafrey I'd like to do halsin, gale, and wylls like this. unfortunately I play on PS5 and don't think i can download the mod for this. :( Therefore, I'll have to patiently wait til you post them LOL
@@lilgreengoat PS5 really needs a modding feature
I find it interesting that astarion likes some of the actions caused by tav's urge to kill, but when he finds out tav is a bhaalspawn, he says "don't become his" and tells them they'll find a way out of this.
Ironically, the one other choice I mentioned in my conclusion that was only related to The Dark Urge was Astarion making me become Bhaal's. It was the, if I must so I don't die option. Talking to him after he was sad and wished I could've escaped my master.
I did count it in my final total of 3 true evil choices despite not having it captured to show.
He was ready to support your bloodthirstiness if it was your choice and quirk, but being made to kill by a master pulling your strings - hits way too close to home for him.
The fucking banter in the Loviatar flagellation scene is S tier. Especially with Shadowheart, I was cackling.
Even Neil Newbon (Astarion voice actor) simp over Astarion.
Thank you for doing this! I've been playing with approvals on for a long time, because I'm highly entertained by who approves of what. (Everyone approves of calling Wulbren a prick except Halsin???) Karlach shares approval with Astarion on a lot of things, and no one is calling her evil.
People just really love to hate Astarion, but when they do it really shows how little attention they paid to the game :(
Apologies for the sounds in the background in the early scenes, my mic was muted but my web cam, though the video feed off, was still capturing audio 😅
so from my understanding my first FIRST playthough I followed what he truly wanted, Im a good person
Yes, he was surprisingly a good guy & wanted to save himself from being like Cazador. He's just sarcastic & sometimes selfisj 😅
Honestly, only 22 minutes in and including the disclaimer
I feel like his behavior of hypersexualization kind of tracks with his trauma.
Along with the more you treat him like a person, the more he grows comfortable with being around you and wanting to be around you which makes the story a whole lot more real and makes him much more human as a character even if he's a vampire spawn
I hope the entire video that's 3 hours long goes along with that narrative and confirms my opinion
There is a very good reason why Neil Newbon won best performance during the game awards
i personally really like Astarion in any playthrough because i have personally had a lot of sexual trauma and being SA'd in my childhood over 10 times if i remember correctly. But i just find him really relatable and honestly a likeable charecter because he is genuinky so chaotic and yet non chaotic at the same time.
Same, he's such a whitty and sassy character but he's also the representation I was craving too. You can feel the survivor in Neil's performance.
From this I would say the 1st evil choise was to kill the tieflings to save Lae'zel. Especially considering how easy it is to save her without a fight.
It's definitely an up-to-player morality type of moment. I, personally, didn't see it as evil. In hindsight, we, as the players, know how easy it is not to kill them. But, in the game, in the mindset of the characters, we wouldn't know that as we wouldn't have hindsight. You'd act in a situation where someone you know (as we met her on the ship) is in danger. I personally, if I was in Faerune, would've automatically attacked the people who attacked and captured the woman who saved me on the ship. I wouldn't know how easy it would be to trick them, and I wouldn't be willing to risk their hurting her. So, to me, it wasn't evil. To me, for an act to be evil, we'd have to know ahead of time the innocence of someone and then willingly slay them for our own personal gains - like slaying the gnomes in the forge.
But evil isn't cut and dry. Not in the game and not in real life, so morality is highly dependent on the PC's personal feelings.
The main takeaway I’m taking from this video is that there are hidden approval points you can get without the pop up… popping up. That’s crazy. I’m playing on PS5, so I can’t get any mods. I mean… most of these hidden approval points are just plus 1, but still, it’s fascinating that even if the game isn’t telling you, you can still gain and lose approval based on decisions.
Also, hoping I’m not asking too much, but the main thing about Astarion’s approval that I’m curious about is with Yurgir. Does Astarion’s approval choices change based on if he’s talked to Raphael or not? I did my first playthrough without Astarion meeting him at Last Light or outside the mausoleum. So he didn’t really have a reason to kill the orthon.
Yes & no. So if you never make a deal for the scars info he'll still approve of you attacking the Orthon, but he will not disapprove of you not automatically not killing the orthon. However, the mod will still display the possible points the same.
Lae'zel has DRASTICALLY different approvals and disapprovals if you side with Vlakkith vs Orpheus, the choices shows approve amd disapprove for each option constantly and I have to guess which she'll be. So even with the mod I have to test things for some characters or replay scenes to ensure I stick to the no disapprove rule.
It happems to everyone (but Karlach) for choices that happen after their turning points.
Lae'zel post Creche
Shart post Aylin
Astarion post Cazador
Gale post boat on the river scene
Wyll post his second deal
@@kiterafreyThere is one more thing I love about Astarion though, and thankfully you can get it from the romantic OR Platonic path; the call back to a previous line from when he first drank your blood. “This is a gift, you know. I won’t forget it.” His inflections are totally different from the first bite vs after beating Cazador and not ascending. Plus in the later he genuinely thanks you.
That was a huge work, thank you for doing that ❤ After 100 approval rate the ratings do not appear, so second half of the game was a mistery to me about his approvals, even though i romanced Astarion 5 times already 😂 I also kind of expected him to be more malicious, and that surprised me. And i also have a memory of disapproving us when we protect Isobel, wonder if it was changed or we all suffer from false memory syndrome 😅
Thank you ❤️
It isn't a false memory, I went and tested all the options when ppl started saying that. He does have an approval it just isn't right away, you have to follow a branching narrative which wasn't the branch I chose since I was able to pick anything I want if a branch has no approvals or disapprovals, and I just lucked into a path without his disapproval for saving her.
There is a mod to always show approval even after reaching the cap. I like knowing Gale still approves even though he reached cap in early Act 1.
@@HeadDetectiveLassie ye, the video is about using this mod as well 😅
@@kosharovka I meant a different mod. It creates notification banners to tell you all companion approval after dialogue even if they are at 100%. There is even a variant that puts it in the combat log and tells you the percentage increase or decrease (which is useful on the controller).
Since "Gale approves" no longer pops up in the upper left for me rather early in the game, it is nice to see it afterwards. Plus, it helps me see where other companions lie in relation to each other.
@@HeadDetectiveLassie I do have it downloaded but when I was recording I couldn't get it to sync but the mod that caused that sync issue I no longer use so my next filming, so multiple videos from now, I should have that solved 🤞
Astarion is a mix of murder hobo and chaos gremlin
🤣🤣🤣🤣
All vampires are evil aligned, Astarion is no different he approves and favors siding with the goblins against the grove, siding against the harper convoy/ killing Isobel, and betraying Aylin in act 3. The thing that bothers me, is when doing a "good" ending with him he genuinely hates you if you aren't partnered with him in the epilogue and is only happy if he has you.
But at Cazador dungeon, when you meet Sebastian you get an option to ask if he can control his hunger, Astarion Approves If you ask him this, I'm not saying vampires aren't evil aligned but maybe vampire spawn aren't as they can't do anything unless the master commands them to normally 'Astarion illithid tadpole changed that'
If only his plotline had a group of people who also believed all vampires are evil aligned and then were surprised (in spawn path) that Astarion proved them wrong and they changed their entire belief system about vampires around his actions and write him a letter in the epilogue specifically detailing how they know their kids can also be good because of him. If only.
Bit of a nitpick, but her name is Araj -- not Araja.
Thank you for doing this video. I'm not interested in modding the game, but it's fun to see some of the less predictable Astarion reacts.
Spoiler............... when playing Dark Urge, if you use non lethal damage to knock Alfira out right before you sleep when she usually gets killed by you, a dragonborn lady will show up instead. Then Alfira will survive. This requires saving your game before you sleep every time till that scene. Obviously, only if you're doing a redemption for your Durge.
Ah, that's how people are doing it
Me unintentionally doing this challenge on my first playthrough cost me an entire ass questline…rip halsin
(I didn’t see anything in this vid about the fact that he approves when you encourage the goblin children to throw rocks at halsin in bear form down in the worg pens)
Because I had to pick all his first choices. If you attack the goblin leaders before the pins the goblins in it will attack you instantly if your slaying of their leader was known. I did include showing the goblins in the pits attack me upon entering.
Doing the first in the carousel of choices can cut off other branched narratives with approvals, for example in act 2 if you go the the Dryder or Last Light first changes if he'll kill the Harpers of not.
2/ Sadly cuz it branches I couldn’t do every choice ever, only every choice as it popped up. 😕 but thank god my aggro was big cuz I got to keep Halsin until Bhaal & Orin
@@kiterafrey true.
I kind of wish there was an astarion approves for "let him continue" when he's drinking you
You'd think he would, he's a thirst vampling
I play with my fiancé and he's so over me fangirling lol. I'm going to start my own playthrough to pursue my vampire lover
I had to do the same, my hubby kept accepting quests and accidentally chicken-blocking me on our first run. It's worth the solo file to chase your vampling
your commentary was everything lol love it
"Is shadowheart in the bushes with binoculars, my god woman"
This comment made my day ❤️
Wow! What a video! I watched it twice 10/10
Thank you
I love too know he likes to kill Kagha 😂❤ and if you let the tiefling kill the goblin at grove. So go back and look my fav Option 😂
He wants to kill Kagha if you don't get her secret too, but that version ends so badly for everyone 😅
p.s. i test the break up Option after his nice simple Plan conversation. I really reload very fast😅
@@littlelady79KK I was thanking the gods I saved after getting Minthara cuz otherwise my reload would've made me to that huge fight again 😶
@@kiterafrey i start a fight at moontowers. But i kill so many away for the later fight that it was Wörth. But really hard 🙃
@@littlelady79KK Leave the moontowers "Nice and Clean" before return for beat Ketheric's Ass is always worthy.
I'm actually shocked that you get -1 from Lae'zel and Gale at 1:48:08 D:
I could understand Lae'zel, she's very just suck it up and take it solider type. Gale shocked me.
And if you ask Astarion why by saying you're surprised, Shadowheart will then disapprove as well if you give Astarion the right to choose. I discovered that in my Shadowheart approvals only run. It broke my heart.
Quick question - what's the mod called that allows you to see the approval for choices? I looked on nexus, but didn't find it :(
Sadly, the mod is no longer on Nexxus. I believe the creator took it down to work on because of Patch 7, but as I'm not them IDK if it'll ever come back up.
So right now, only those who have already downloaded it have access to it as once downloaded you have a copy of the file forever (unless you delete it.)
You can watch this link to see if it comes back after Patch 7 drops: www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
@@kiterafrey Ah alrighty, thank you so much for the resources and update! Lovely video by the way - it's a neat and subtle analysis :3
@@sophie6425 You're welcome :) and thank you
Thank you for doing God's work.
That's a really cool idea, it would’nt be my next video to show as I have a few queued to edit but I will add inspirations to my challenege queue
@@kiterafrey Neat! Thank you so much! You have a lot of backgrounds to cover, so good luck! I always wondered how much inspiration you get from being a guild artisan or an urchin.
@@Karomix3 Solo they're all pretty even depending on how to play. Some do better like a Bard has more unique dialog options that give inspo for entertainers for example.
If you really want to crank out inspo tho, the key is to be the same background as the companion you'll use in party the most because you both get inspo.
@@kiterafrey Yeah I know, I also tend to use the hirelings with the same backgrounds as the companions, like Astarion and that duergar lady both being Charlatans, or the tiefling druid being a Folk Hero. I know a lot in the act 1 for some companions, and so far the Noble background makes me laugh quite a bit, like you immediatly get inspiration the moment you hear Astarion says he was a Magistrate, when you get your first soul coin, when you do your first bribe with gold, or when you hire the Ogres, or getting Sovereign Spaw to get give you a title, or and when you save Florrick and when you also get Volo to your camp, of all things. XD
You’re out here doing the work! I hate making wrong choices I need this mod for PlayStation 😭
PS5 needs so many mods, like the no romance limit & his best outfits
I had to watch this video twice and watching it still makes me cry experiencing how astarian reacts to certain things. Just absolutely breaks me
One thing I do want to know is what race was picked for the tav character that's not entirely human in my opinion
She is a half elf ❤️
Dang I’m playing with Wyll in my party and he isn’t anywhere near as talkative as he is here
Wyll isn't as talkative or Astarion isn't?
@@kiterafrey Wyll! He was chiming in with his opinion almost every interaction in the goblin camp at least. I haven’t finished the video yet
@@renm4779 It might be because most of my choices in the goblin camp Wyll approved of, ironically he has a lot in common with Astarion. But it is also somewhat RNG who'll chime in so I might have just kept getting Wyll as my random response selection.
The night song decision like you mentioned I don’t think is so much *evil* as *not having context*
Balthazar explained she was in a soul cage or whatever but he didn’t really explain that the soul cage ITSELF is what allows Ketheric to harness her power? I think you could read it as “this holds her down” basically it’s what’s keeping her prisoner but not necessarily what is keeping her tethered to Ketheric. I may have missed something in the dialogue that was more concrete but I think these choices led to NOT getting that info. I usually kill Balthazar before getting to nightsong and I feel like the dialogue is different then. I wonder if his approval is also different if Balthazar is already gone at that point 🤔
Also, it’s about supporting Shadowheart’s agency. He knows Shadowheart wants this and I think he would kind of disapprove of anyone trying to coerce her into a different decision because to him that’s taking away her agency and her choice. Similar to with the drow, if you don’t specifically say “do it, bite her” but you say “I’m surprised you aren’t interested in more power” … I *believe* he still breaks up with you even if he turns her down because he views it as coercion. Even if you don’t intend it that way and then are panicking trying to figure out why he dumped you 😅😅
So in the drow bite you can say you're surprised he would pass up the chance to bite her, he asks to step aside a moment and tells you she smells rank. If you say anything but "don't do anything you don't want to do" after that point he does dump you. I discovered that on the Shadowheart run sadly 😭
U Probably didn't noticed but just in case. At 1:11:08 any reason why you didn't went with " what do i get in return if I give it to you ?"
Cause that was the top choice he approved
It was just a choice, in the rules if multiple have approvals I pick the highest value or if they're the same value I can whichever. Both were a 1. But I did end up picking both as my first choice didn't remove "what do I get" which I then asked next.
@@kiterafrey I see
What Mod did you use to see the approval ratings?
I am using the mod linked. However, the creator has it temporarily removed to work on for the new patch. I don't know when it'll be back but anyone who's downloaded it already still has it.
www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
I miss the approval mod is been taken down :((
I hope they put it back up so others can also use it. I had to crack it open to adjust it for patch 7 for my game, so my guess is they took it down to do the same thing.
peak toxicity
I can’t help but wonder if in the end your rule about how you handled what your character says when he doesn’t have an approval score affects it. Usually when I want him to complete the ritual, I don’t do that much clicking. I just keep him focused, I don’t even talk to the children. So if in the end…if you had just kept him focused on finishing the ritual…what would the approval score have been? You basically just got a 2 for talking him out of it…could you have gotten more if you just did what he asked without questioning him?
You're not wrong, but it is more than just the stuff in the palace. It is how you play the game as a whole. To explain, if you recall in the video I said he had a disapproval but also an approval. The mod only shows the code that is always there, but not which will be active. Which means before every scene I had to save to ensure it didn't end up that I was the disapprovals tract when those would happen, I wanted to make sure I stayed true to only approvals even if that meant replaying a scene. -- Every character as this, Lae'zel being the worst as after the Creche, nearly ALL of her choices are approvals and disapproval and I have to guess which she'll be depending on if she chose Orpheus or Vlakkith. -- For Astarion, if you don't romance him and make mostly evil choices in the game as you PC he'll disapprove here because he feels you don't trust him. It can also happen if you mainly make dialog choices encouraging him to do the ritual rather than just encouraging him to seek his freedom or just saying you'll support him, because then he'll feel betrayed. I am unsure what the number balance is, just those are required to get the disapproval to activate as I've gotten that to happen on a file where I didn't romance him as well as a file where I was doing an evil run.
So, if you're skipping the stuff in the palace that builds his character up and you've also been making less than heroic choices, you've probably gotten enough points into his B-story, Ascended, to trigger the disapproval here instead.
Everyone but Karlach has something like this.
Shadowheart: If you kill Aylin her approvals change.
La'ezel: If you side with Vlakkith her approvals change.
Wyll: If you pick being the Duke his approvals change. If you kill Karlach his approvals change.
Gale: If you encourage him to be a God his approvals change.
Astarion: If you Ascend him or push him to ascend his approvals change.
But for all of them these are their B-stories, so you have to put in a LOT of work doing things they don't approve of to get inactions to push them into their B-stories.
@@kiterafrey thank you for such a thoughtful response! I really appreciate it. When mods come the PS5, I hope this mod is there so I can see how it affects my games. I really enjoyed your video.
@@goldenhermit Thank you ❤️ hopefully it will. If enough people ask the creator on Nexxus mods to do so I bet they'll make a PS5 ver
can anyone tell me where the mod is that shows the approval?? i'm new to modding so idk the websites and such ah haha
This is where I got the mod, however it is no longer available so only those with it already installed have it.
www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
wait what mod is this for the approval visual
The mod is no longer on Nexxus, likely the maker is making changes to accommodate patch 7.
www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
But when it is back up this is the link. But as I already had it downloaded I still have it.
What mod is this that shows the approval in the dialogue?
Sadly, the mod is no longer on Nexxus. I believe the creator took it down to work on because of Patch 7, but as I'm not them IDK if it'll ever come back up.
So right now, only those who have already downloaded it have access to it as once downloaded you have a copy of the file forever (unless you delete it.)
You can watch this link to see if it comes back after Patch 7 drops: www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/2027
How old is this video? The game play in the beginning is complete different when I play
It came out in June but was filmed over the course of May 2024.
So we've had two patches since it was filmed 6 and 7
Oh, it was also filmed on PC with a controller, so if you play mouse/keyboard it will look different for you in how you use gameplay functions.
I love this, I relate to Astarion in more way than one. I always defend him in the he isn't evil to haters who say that he is
Is he chaotic, yes. But, chaotic isn't evil
@@kiterafrey fr i agree. I always like to think he loves the chaos
Nah, he's Chaotic Evil, keep those excuses away from me.
When you only try to get maximum approval from everybody, you will end up nowhere.
You just can not avoid negative approvals -- live with it. You still can romance everybody if you like. In my first playthough, I did not care if anybody approved, but did the right thing in my eyes. Still had about 100 approval at my three main companions at the end, maybe some times 99 for some, but who cares, it is the same. Even Astarion was happy to not have ascended, even when I did have real low approval with him, because I never used him besides his personal quest and I also disagreed with him most of the time, because of his somewhat dark base alignment.
If I wished to have everybody's full approval, than I should not even save SH in the Nautoloid (I know, no negatives here, because it is not a real choice), because Laezel wants to move on. I should not take both into my party, because they basically disagree in everything at the beginning. But by doing so, I give both a chance to overcome their feud.
What do you get, when Astarion approves everywhere: Nightsong dead, all Tieflings dead, nearly everybody in the Last Lights Inn dead. Possible more (I did not watch your full movie) Hurrah!
The point of the challenge wasn't romancing everyone. It was setting parameters to test the outcomes in those parameters, like I will for each character with approvals.
And spoilers since you didn’t watch, no one else dies after Nightsong, he only has two evil approvals and Nightsong was the last.
@@kiterafrey First of all, I did understand your challenge and I did not attack your challenge at all. There are several more or less interesting challenges out there, most of I am not interested in and I do not comment.
Second, I just wanted to comment about the approval system per se, because some think, they must have max approval and minimize disapproval. Wrong.
Third, as much I saw the barrier of the Last Lights Inn was broken because of Nightsong killed, so everybody there was killed by the shadows, if you have seen that or not. That is also the reason, you do not get support from the Harpers at Moonrise, because there is none left (besides maybe Jahira). Those deaths where traded in for a (as much I remember) +1 approval from Astarion! 🥶
@@What_do_I_Think You are correct, it was a +1 for Nightsong. My statement was just that after Nightsong, the only approval/disapproval that could lead to death with Astarion was him choosing to stay a Spawn and not kill the 7k souls.
I didn't think you were attacking me, but did think you might've misunderstood the point of the challenge. I'm sorry I misunderstood the situation.
@@kiterafrey Maybe I could have make my point more clear in the first post.
When I played I did try to get maximum approval of everyone. Once I figured out the complexities of the approval system however, my goal officially changed to “Just get their approval as high as possible, even if everyone isn’t maxed out, as long as they don’t hate me, that’s fine”. With this mindset… I came surprisingly close on my run playing on the PS5. I had “exceptional” approval (which I assume is max on PS5, or at the very least in the highest possible area) for Shadowheart, Lae’Zel, Gale, Wyll, Karlach, Halsin and Jaheira. The only two, or I guess three, that definitely did not have max approval by the end of my first playthrough were Astarion, Minsc, and Minthara. Even so though, Astarion and Minsc were in the “very high” category. Astarion I usually used the least because I already had a core three and it felt like he wouldn’t help with much decisions, but bringing him to places he felt important helped get high approval. Minsc sadly had the problem Karlach had in act 1, where he joined way too late and I was done with most things. But I guess, similar to Halsin and Jaheira, there are decisions you can make that get him ridiculous amounts of approval… I guess I just missed out on getting enough. As for Minthara, yeah she was the one character whose approval absolutely tanked for me, like it got super low because of my decisions. I can’t be 100% sure, but I think the true major blow was when I killed her at the Goblin Camp in order to save Halsin, but who knows really?