A Cat C18 in a "TRUCK" in the shop.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video we are working on a Cat C18 in a "truck." Covering the piston installation, main and rod bearing wear and why the liners are so weird. Thanks for watching. AdeptApe@yahoo.com for questions and PayPal for donations.
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Western state cat? What state?
Its my WhatsApp no
Awesome job keep up with the good work 3406b bad ass motor raj from Orlando
So if a C18 is the same block as a C15. Can you just block swap a 15 to 18? And what's the difference between the 15 and 16 then?? Same?
What are the gloves you wear? They look like they'd be comfortable and retain some dexterity.
I'm 21 years old and am studying heavy equipment repair I have all your videos on my PC thank you you give me strength to study hard wish I will get a job after 5 year's from now love you
You could get a job sooner than that I reckon, not enough new people in this field right now
@@mindquad779 why on earth would you need to study for 5 years 😂 my job will take you now.
Little do people know that jungle gyms were actually preparing kids to be diesel mechanics.
Not quite at fun as I remember as a kid lol.
Lol every time i put together a lot of extensions and bits to get to something i think its the adult version of legos
My cousin has a c18 in his pete that thing is a monster and doesn't do any worse on fuel than my 3406e
Not complaining but would love a start to finish rebuild on a engine even if it's in a few parts. Thanks for all the knowledge.
Check out KT3406E he builds a few 3406s and does a nice clean complete builds
Thanks! Very good info in this video. Got an engine on a stand for two years now. Still didn't find the courage to pull it completely apart.
I really like how you mix a bit of humour and emotions into your videos.
Seeing your "mistakes" with videoing is no issue at all for me, this is only human. I watch all your videos because of the professional experience you are sharing, not because they look all polished like on TV.
Thanks for your efforts! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Kind regards, Michael
A. I agree that there is never too much oil/grease/assembly lube when fastening or sliding together metal parts. This is what rages are for: the mopping up of the excess.
B. I, for one, am a torque-specification advocate; never boring like attempting to learn Windows NY circa year 2000.
C. I fix my rain cap on my day off this Tuesday. The weight no longer keeps the lid on the exhaust pipe when the westerly winds blow from behind the rear to front of my Freightliner.
Rain water trashing a block.... MADNESS...!!!!
You think haul trucks are a PIA? A wheel loader is 100 times worse. There's usually a huge fuel tank and counter weight just under the oil pan. A dozer is near impossible but thank God they have the multi piece oil pan. I think the worst inframe I ever done was in a portable crusher. Access was tight and nearly ten feet high with access on the exhaust side was by ladder. Not an angled one but totally vertical. I put tools and parts in a five gallon bucket and roped them up. The crane on my service truck was maxed out in reach for the head.
The Destruction of the week is a prime example of why a good ol' flappy-clappy-rattlely rain cap can't be beat. Yeah chromed, 4 inch, miter cut stacks look rad... but a functional engine is more rad.
That is the price somebody paid because of their weird version of style
You would think they have a drain in the exhaust at the lowest spot, with a check valve. I am sure the exhaust pressure when running should overcome the spring pressure and close upon startup. But hey, I am no engineer, Just thinking out loud.
I use turn back stacks so hopefully water doesn’t get in there myself. Worked good so after many years.
The winds keep blowing my cap open ....☹️
Gotta get a pail to put over the cap....
nothing an old folgers can can't fix. my grandpa had a farm with lots of equipment that would sit for long periods of time. he put folgers cans over all the exhaust stacks. keeps the weather out, and when you're ready to use that rig, you just fire it up and it blows the can off.
A lot of guys I work with will dunk the whole piston in a jug of oil before installing it. Messy, but you definitely don't have to worry about not having enough.
I just got me a sonic today, and man it sure helps clean them parts. Yes it works well thanks for telling and we’ll see ya next time see ya bye.
There’s a 750hp c18 in a kw w9 in Indiana. He says it’s hard at the pump but it pulls the hills nice.
Thanks, very interesting 🤔
Can't believe C10 block cracked, great job diagnosing that !! Most would have just installed new liner. You are very thorough !!
LOVE ALL OF THE KNOWLEGE JOSH. IM CONTEMPLACTING MAKING THE SWITCH FROM AUTOMOTIVE TO HEAVY EQUIPMENT
Nice video and explanation. I have done a lot 3406 A, B and C engines and love your discussion about the engine. Keep up the good work.
Best carbon removal is nitromethane. Aka..top fuel. Is amazing.
Thank you for all the videos they are very helpful tons of knowledge
Very good video again Joshua. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. That could not have been the easiest rebuild with having to go cliff climbing to get to it. Be safe Sir.
I have that same ring compressor. It works sort of for me. I keep it as a let’s give this a try but it’s not the greatest. It takes a lot of assistance to get it to work and a lot of down pressure applied to keep it from not popping up and letting the ring open above the block deck
Amazing video...thanks for sharing this with us 🙏
I operate a 745 haul truck, the same engine is also in the CAT 374 Excavator as well. We haven’t had many engine issues, but we have had a lot of transmission issues though.
A ton of them are at my dealership for transmission issues, they are a pain to remove and install
Thank you for the amazing content. Just a side note. There is usually a basket that sits in the ultrasonic cleaner that hangs off the side or does not rest directly on the ultrasonic cleaners floor. It is bad for the cleaner and reduces the cleaning efficiency of the cleaner due to the weight resting on the transducers . Maybe someone else that knows more can chime in. :)
Josh, my experience with Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer is as follows: I have a 1992 Isuzu Rodeo with the GM 60° 3.1 L V6. Before using the oil stabilizer, if I didn't drive my Rodeo for 5 days the oil would drain down from the valve train and upon engine startup the lifters would make noise for 15 to 20 seconds then quiet down. After use of the oil stabilizer there was no noise at all even after my Rodeo sat for 3 weeks. I use it with every oil change.
Been using Lucas as assembly lube for 20+ years. It works great
Great job showing and telling, learning I am keep showing telling and I’ll see ya next time see ya bye.
I've used old liners to make a ring compressor. Split the liner in half, weld a hinge on it, some rebar for handles and a zip tie to hold the handles. But it's nice to have the proper tool as well. I hate those stupid universal ring compressors.
Sometimes I use a nitrile glove with a fabric glove over it that is soaked in oil. You can really get all the nooks and crannies lubed.
Good video. Big truck
Man I love seeing the bigger trucks SICK so I’m totally new to your channel I own a itty bitty 2001 7.3 and of course it’s my first diesel so can you recommend some of your videos in my range of vehicles lol great job brother
Good job big boss 💯
the random outburst had me dying🤣
Nice video josh
Awesome video as usual
Another great video thanks
that is so nice mr.josh
Why would anyone expect that a liner with that big of a crack would not crack the block? I guess it was a newby to winter. Anyway thanks for the information and keep the good stuff coming.
When I saw "truck" in the title, I laughed and figured you were working on a haul truck. Have you had to deal with the failing transmissions yet? So much "fun".
Good job
I just used to lightly oil the piston skirt and the inside of the ring grooves and never ever had one pick up and always bedded in right from the get go.
The 18 liter C18 is supposed to be a replacement for the 18 liter 3408 V8, I know which one I’d rather have! Especially with the C18 liner walls being so thin. Even the C16 liners aren’t really up to the job in a heavy application.
I operated C18's set @ 680Hp in Cat AD55 underground dump trucks. They were an interesting engine, one that either lasted 10,000 hours or failed under 200, there seemed to be no middle ground. When they failed, it was typically in a spectacular fashion that meant you could see daylight from one side of the block to the other. In fairness, the life of an engine in an underground truck is a tough one, half an hour at minimal load running down the decline, followed by 1 1/2-2 hours at full throttle pulling 110-130 tonnes gross up a 1:7 incline with no respite and in high ambient temperatures. We thought we were kings when the AD55B came along with a C27@815Hp. They couldn't take the C27 past 815Hp as they couldn't keep them cool above that, (even at 815Hp we were running fuel coolers due to the high ambient temperature).
We did have an AE40 with a 3408 and it had a beautiful throaty growl to it, although nothing compares to the C27 pulling hard up the decline.
@@karlrobbers I used to work U/G as well, one nickel mine I worked at back in the ‘80s had modified low profile 988B loaders and 769 trucks with 3408s. The decline was 1:9 and they used to rev going downhill. They sounded great with no muffling and were very reliable. Another mine had a Swedish Kiruna U/G truck with dual Volvo engines, it used to break down all the time so they repowered with a GM 12V71 TA, problem solved.
@@gm16v149 I always wondered what a GM would have sounded like underground. All that sweet noise with nowhere to go.
They brought in some Atlas Copco MT6020 trucks with QSK19 Cummins @765Hp in them, they would outrun the AD55 with the C18, but not the AD55B with the C27 and the CAT was like a limousine in comparison the the Atlas Copco.
If Cat made made a 3408E or brought it back they could rival Scania for power and performance.
I was also wondering what a C13 with two extra cylinders would be like. Imagining the C18 as a straight-8.
@@electric7487 Never late with a 3408!
What’s your opinion of the head gasket/fire ring integrity of a c18 like this vs c16
My aqueous hot parts washer actually does a really good job when it comes to removing carbon buildup.
there's some construction work starting along my route to work and the graders are a little different. they are haul trucks fitting with hitches to pull the graders
Hi, Adept Ape! I am putting my mxs c15 back together and I realized the bearing tabs are opposite of the cooling jet. Is that a issue or do I need to spin them 180°? If I do need to spin them, is it a bad thing to spin the piston in the liner? I don’t have a ring compressor that size.
You are the MAN
I like how you make sure whatever you are working on is clean prior to working it.
When I rebuilt a Chevy v-8 engine, I checked all clearances everything was fine, So I thought that STP would make a good assembly lube, after I torqued the mains then tried to spin the crank, it was locked solid !! It wouldn't move at all !! Even with a breaker bar !! I disassembled and cleaned of the STP and use 30w oil, assembled it and torqued the mains and it spun over just fine.!😂
I've found that splitting an old liner with a few band clamps makes and excellent piston ring compressor tool, I'd the don't have the right tool that is
Try using hoppes no 9 gun cleaner in your ultrasonic....seems to work good for me at least
Block ain't junk if you can duck tape it together with some JB weld. Lol. It very fascinating to watch your videos as I'm more accustom to gasoline engines.
How much do you think labor would be to pull out a Cummins isx and install a c-18. I’m talking getting it completely ready to run.
I bought a 3126 that has a oil leak. I finally found it and it's the 241-3782 line. I've only seen one video addressing this line. The guy said it's extremely hard to get it to line up and not leak. Can you give me any tips or tricks to get it to not leak so I don't have to do this multiple times?
I use a smaller ultrasonic with a drop of dawn (not a sponsor) and 1 9 mm case of citric acid to clean spent ammo cases and have pretty good carbon cleaning. I only do it for about 20 minutes. Not good to leave the brass in h the citric acid to long as it leaches the zinc out if the alloy and weakens it.
Would you be able to send damaged pistons to my college? Our diesel program has a some interesting parts like that like scored liners and melted pistons
C10 put a second hand liner in it and run it. Yes a concrete warranty. I think it will work.
as a dealer you cant do that kind of work, cat has to stand behind anything you do.
When I was young my father used STP ( which was common in the 70s) never had a problem
Nice buddy
I use it all the time for engine assembly because I never know if I got to go do something else and it's got to sit for a day or two I know that stuff is not going to wear off that bearing as it sits there just to make sure I never have a dry start up
Finally one good use for a Lucas product. I never put their products in my truck.
Use to work on 3408 in peterbilt trucks was a very big motor
I did a bearing roll on my 3408 last week. Only five mains but eight rod bearings. The Brakesaver double oil pump is super heavy, and all those pipes are a pain.
Hi adept ape always great videos, can I use original pistons on a rebuild obviously if no damage on them.
Are the cranks and rods different compared to a c15?
Hey Josh? Can I put a C18 Head and rebuild kit in my C15 Acert? I don't have the def system, just the intake valve actuators.
I hate those ring compressors too. I feel like I'm going to lose a finger every time I use one. But they actually seem to work well on KTAs. I use one thats a touch shorter than the one you showed, I have tried a longer one once and i definitely would have put that one in a car crusher if I had one.
What would be a good oem alternative for pistons on a mbe900 (om906la)engine.
Are CAT engines mostly metric or SAE size fasteners? thank you
I have a question, the c18 always gets a bad rep for “thin liners” and the stroke is too long so it shaves the liners and harmonics and blah blah blah. Lots of marine apps putting over 1000hp and lots of industrial putting 700-800hp. What’s is their realistic service life? Like are they putting 6000-8000 hours or work before their strike and liners show up to play? Or are they putting the regular 18000-25000 hours in between overhauls?
That's what I've heard as well. That the liners allegedly flex too much.
It's nothing to get 25k hrs from a c-18 industrial .
I’d like to hear from josh on the service life of the c18 compared to the c15.
@@TheREALLibertyOrDeath everyone mentions how weaker the liners are because they’re thinner, but if cat built a 1100hp engine. They should be strong enough providing enough cooling. It would be nice to hear from someone who has hands on and down dirty with them
You may not of know it but you used Lucas with me!! That's what I had mixed in with oil on our rebuilds.......lol opps
In TN we call those trucks a wiggle tail
Thanks bro, What is the difference between cat 3406e and cat c18?
What material is it made of? And what max pressure it can take it? Thank you
Hey Josh, I noticed that you used a lot of oil when installing the piston into the sleeve and I was wondering if that may affect the break in process of the engine and rings. I saw one old guy just use WD40 or other light oil because he said that it helps break in the engine faster. Im not an expert but I was hoping to get your opinion on this, Appreciate the video thanks!
new engines dont break in the rings till about 150000 miles nowdays due to the better oil and the hardness of the coating on rings.
So c15, c16 and c18 is basically same block but bore size differ. So the c15 would be the better engine being its internals are thicker?
the shoe/ boot doesn't introduce dirt or debris into the cylinder?
Yep block is the same as C15 and rods piston 5.7 bore and the crank 7.2 stroke 1104. displacement It running in my road truck I pull 164,000 lbs give or take a few thousand lbs super train.
So I could make my c15 an c18 with just new liners and piston packs?
@@chrisarcher4098 and crank shaft cam injectors.
And the pistons coolers that spray oil to the bottom of the piston.
I took my NSX block and had aligned honed did uppers and lower bore insert install And deck the block.
. Also there other options IPD BIG BORE KIT .C15 14.6 Liter and 15.2.
Your crank rods the big bore kit will become 17.0 Liters using C15 crank 2 bolt rod 14.6L the 15.2L is 4 bolt rod and it works.
Now C15 block casting number 1974 C15 15.2 L block will fit the crank out C18 no problem.it same platform C15 is 928 CID and the and C18 is 1104.2 CID.my uses NXS TWIN TURBOS COMPRESS RATIO 16.1 I HAVE ACERT TECHNOLOGY WORKING AS IT SHOULD SET IT 625hp and 2400 lbs tork I have ran it up to 1000 up 3200 lbs tork it works but it for truck pulling. So I quit that foolishness hard on the pocket book
625 and 2400 perfect for the truck and drive line. Josh the haul truck that your working on can you get some shots of the transmission I thinking of retrofit one into my truck fluid drive instead shaft and clutch.
I look at oskosh m1070a2 super het and that is basically my setup without the Allison transmission.
That 300,000 lbs haul rate. I drove one bad to bone.
Lots of care to not track dirt into the engine with your feet on this one. Gotta climb up there and put your slippers on! Lol
I don't understand the advantage of the 'torque plus' method over just using the final torque reading. Using a pointer type torque wrench instead of the click type, I can do the torque plus while checking that the final reading is consistent.
Josh , did that C- 18 have Jake brakes .
Are the c15 and c18 thermostat the same?
Instead of using a ultrasound cleaner, try some oven cleaner spray. It works great!
I got a c-15 6Nz. Every once in a while my fuel water separator gets clogged. I tried to look for issues even opened the bolt under the water separator to check if it leaks any water but it doesn’t, clean diesel with no sign of water or even coolant. A cat worker told me sometimes coolant gets in the system but that doesn’t seem likely to me. I checked the fuel caps they look fine as well. I would love to have your opinion on this please. 🙏
If the filters keep clogging you need to drain the tank.
Could it be carbon plugging the filter…. Is the filter black when plugged?.. little bubbles floating to top of fuel-in separator?? …..if so you may need to reseal the injectors
@@karlsborgwi.jewell9919 I can’t tell its not a glass filter its a hard metal yellow cat filter
@@fastinradfordable I’m gonna need to get my tanks checked i think. I had a mechanic take a look but he just looked it with a torch and that’s all.
You can get fuel into the cooling system and coolant into the fuel system. Check your injector cup o rings.
If I got assigned a job like that I'd wonder if it's because they trust I can handle it or it's a punishment.
Just teasing.
Edit: You're an teacher and finally a worthy test of an ultrasonic cleaner as I dislike wasting $.
The job has been difficult, torquing the head with it being so low sitting relative to your body was hard and the cam backlash was off and took forever to correct. Oh well, difficulty breeds innovation and builds character.
@@AdeptApe I can only imagine how big a pain that is all together.
Can a C7 in a medium duty pete be swapped out for a C9
Interesting little factoid, many years ago Ford did extensive testing on clocking piston ring gaps & it basically makes absolutely zero difference. You don’t get excessive blow-by if all the gaps are lined up.
I’d still say it’s good practice to do it, but it’s certainly not necessary.
Many horizontal engines the rings will all line up over time anyway.
Provided the gaps are all good it really doesn’t matter. Seems counterintuitive, but when you look into how piston rings actually work it all makes sense.
I still clock them though, I just couldn’t bring myself to do otherwise (I mean, I’m not an animal 🤷♂️).
anyone have a list of up to date part numbers for commonly replaced parts for the common CAT engines, for on-highway?
filters, rear main seal, front seal, etc.
thanks
part numbers can change every day, cat will be the only place to get current part numbers,
"Yee Old Ring Squeeze" does not work well with Keystone rings.
We've known that for decades, but it still shows up on the scene as the go to...garbage as far as keystone rings go.
The other thing about Keystone rings is, even with the "proper" tool, don't install the pistons when the engine is laying on it's side unless you have several helpers holding things up and pulling and pushing.
Always try to install Keystone ring pistons from the vertical, it just goes smoother.
The small of burnt oil and hot oil dripping in your eye and ears . 30 yrs heavy truck and coach mechanic ontario Canada.
The universal piston ring installer hahahahaha
I use it for assembly lubricant on all my rebuild stuff works great and you can sit there for a month and I know it won't be a dry startup
So.... theoretically I could make my acert C15 an C18? Would you run into any other issues than changing the liners and piston packs?
Cam shaft, injectors, maybe a crankshaft.
Crankshaft, camshafts connecting rods are different
Crankshaft, then change your cam and injector for hp
But why my 1Lw is a stock 605hp out pulls a 700hp is and I can walk right past a 6NZ
I worked with a guy years ago that when doing bearings on a big cam Cummins he never rolled the top crank bearing in . He said they never showed any wear.
he was lazy, antifreeze will eat them up and corrode them with pits.
@@youtubeisawesome2487 I did bearings on an engine he'd done a bearings on a few years earlier and the upper bearings looked like crap. Not worn but flaked and chunked out. You can't buy just the lower and the upper isn't that much more work. (There were at least 6 or 7 half sets laying around the shop)
Really like your videos Mr. Ape. Got a question for you that nobody seems to know the answer. 2007 Acert conversion to single turbo, do you have to lower compression?
No, you don't have to alter the compression. Reducing compression is a safety measure on gasoline engines to reduce the risk of preignition and detonation. Remember that Diesel engines don't mix air and fuel before entering the cylinder, so you (theoretically) have no limits on your compression ratio, and lower compression ratios on Diesel engines makes them less efficient and dirtier-running.
You should 👍
Didn’t see if rod bearing shaped rod journals are round . any diesel makes oval shaped rods . Worked on Lima loco engine rods were .090 inch out of round . Engine had rhythmic squeak ,all 6 cyl s chirping . Resized rods no more chirp . Oil pressure increased by 50# hot
Sad that a tiny crack like that killed the C10 block. Love the sound of those C15s & C18s as they boom around site while we drill piles.
Wow I don't think they change that (exactly ring compression )much since late 1960s when my dad rebuilt a Chevy in line 6.....232 ???
Haul trucks suck but not as bad as a dozer. I have used Lubriplate 105 for engine assembly for decades. Cummins used to say to use that thick STP but that was fifty years ago. They even wanted rings and liners with a 50/50 mix oil and STP. I hated those wedding band blocks.
Did it Crack the liners. Pretty common on them. Probably why your reusing the pistons. I did one in a bale grinder. Liner cracked and put oil in the coolant.
Liners have been updated to stop the cracking
So a guy could inframe a c15 and make it into a c18? How much power and tq would that have? Assuming the c15 was 475 hp
Well they can make a lot of power, the one in this haul truck is only 500 hp, so pretty much the same as a normal C15.
If you just take a normal 500 hp C15 though and increased the displacement by 20% (to a C18) you could expect a 20% increase to 600 hp. Of course this is a super oversimplification, but just illustrates the difference.
They make 750-900 hp C18 off road applications and the marine engines can be over 1,000 hp. Kind of crazy with those thin liners, but they can make some power.
Interesting
Will c 18 head work on an mbn...I've heard that C18 heads cool better...thanks for info
American premium castings Vancouver Washington has the best heads in the industry
@@vinniegillotti9347 awesome thanks
Same heads
Kindly confirm me that difference between c15 or c18.
1. Both block are same but
2 . C18 liners bor size is 145mm or c15 i think 138mm.
3. Differences is in pistons.
4. C15 has a single turbo or c18 has two.
And other all things are same?
Stock C15 has 2 turbos as thry were Acert engines. C-15 had one.
Depends on the arrangement all interchange