Your manager years ago sounds like he or she would be a nightmare at a party. Life is about managing risk and what you did was take the action that would remove the biggest risk. Moreover, you didn't do it off your own back and instead asked the signaller for permission. I presume that the signaller has ultimate authority over what happens on the permanent way and if that is indeed the case your manager should have spoken to them about it as ultimately, if the signaller said "No", you wouldn't have done it.
You did the right thing, in both cases you liased with the signaller, and also avoided a passenger putting themselves at risk , who possibly had no idea about 3rd rail 750v DC at up to 2000 amps. In the first case, if it had been something 'obstructing' the line you would have been TOLD to go up the track even if it left someone else on their own.(I'm ex railway, most of it on or near the track including being a Railman,Guard, Supervisor and Station Manager.) Too many managers, even a long time ago, are direct graduate entries with no common sense or practical knowledge as to how to run a railway.
You did the right thing in my opinion. I saw an identical incident at Horsley on the Guildford New Line in summer 2018. It was a Sunday so the station was unstaffed. A young lady dropped her phone on the up line whilst alighting from a train. She was able to alert the conductor, who contacted the signaller, (or the driver did). She was told to stay where she was and the signaller would ask the driver of the next down train to retrieve the phone. Sure enough, about 10 minutes later a down train pulled in and I noticed that the driver was on the cab-to-shore RT, probably confirming that the up signals were at danger. The driver then went onto the track, picked up the phone, returned it to the teary-eyed teenager and returned to her cab for departure to profuse thanks.
I think you did the right thing, on both occasions. I understand why in the first instance you were criticised but you didn’t endanger anyone as a result of your actions. To stop your freight service to offer assistance to a passenger who you otherwise wouldn’t have had any contact with, with the permission of the signaller is in my opinion extremely generous of you, and I firmly believe it’s a true representation of our rail networks staff. Railway staff are a different to most other people I find. They’re all completely dedicated to their work and always seem to be very happy in their job. People slate the railway unfairly. I think people should take more time to understand the railway before casting judgment. I’d love to work on the railway! Maybe one day... happy Christmas to you.
I think you did the right thing. My early working life was full of management who trusted us enough to put us on the front line and deal with the customers face-to-face (especially looking after thousands of pounds of cash and credit transactions each day) but would then kick up a fuss when we faced unforeseen circumstances and did the right thing by the customer AND the business, but which appeared to undermine them because they weren't in the decision loop. Similarly, I once stopped to help after a motorway crash, (M1 near Huddersfield) and managed to stop the traffic on all three lanes, preventing people ploughing into an upturned car in the outside lane... I then got a dressing down from a copper who arrived some time later, telling me the motorway is a dangerous place... oh please! He could have at least said "Thank you, we appreciate that, but just take care in the future" but no, I literally got a lecture as if I was 5 years old.
This is big picture - little picture stuff. Paying attention to the little things is what makes the big things work. Dead bodes and injured members of the public stop railways. So if members of the public don’t feel the need to do silly things like walk on the tracks to retrieve dropped items our railways will run better. It is also important to remember that railways are run by people for people. It also looks good on social media. I also have from time to time done some “strange” things as far as my company were concerned. Graciously, after the event, they agreed with my decisions.
I'm one of your new subscribers you mentioned at the start of the video, I got on board (if you'll pardon the pun) after watching the GWR post, love your videos, keep up the good work. So far as did you do the right thing? You're old school, and I don't use that phrase with any negative undertone whatsoever. You want to help, not just passengers, but the network, and I applaud that.
Very interesting. Just found your channel as thinking of Joining Southern as a Shunter Driver (moving from LUL), going to look through more of your videos.
I’ve done this a couple of times as a passenger service driver although on 25kV AC. I didn’t tell management because I knew that they wouldn’t make a quick decision, I told the signaller and platform staff and got a block then retrieved the phone, if you don’t mention it to them it tends to be ignorable after the event and you won’t hear anything as long as you did it safely.
You were definitely right both times, leaving an item there rather than picking it up is an example of being a jobsworth in my opinion. You can't win with the public and managers, only one or the other.
Hi, great video's , I've only just found you in the last few weeks( GWR Speeding). Yes I would say that you made the correct decision on that afternoon in Hastings. It's something we used to do all the time when most station staff used to hold personal track safety certificate's.... No waiting on a MOM to come out , just a call from the signal box to assist.
My guess is the first manager was a "degree manager". Got their job because they had the right qualifications on paper but little/no experience to back it up, experience being the most important tool to have in your box. You made a dynamic risk assessment and the risk to the MOP was much greater than leaving your colleague alone for 30 mins. Not only do you have a third rail but restricted clearance with no refuges within a platform. How would a MOP get a block, they can't. A "railway manager" who's worked in the real world would have backed you up
In my professional opinion (as a former mainline and LU driver) you certainly did the right thing. I have had several near misses over the years with people jumping down to retrieve keys/phones etc. Probably was even more worrying on LUL due to the 4th rail down the middle of the track! Lower speeds, but much higher chance of being electrocuted! I think some managers just can't see the big picture for whatever reason, but I most certainly say you did right!
I really appreciate this! I’m a signaler (train dispatcher) in the U.S. and I enjoy hearing how other countries conduct railroad operations. Indeed you did do the right thing! I know there are many who would have done the same thing here in the U.S. but just as many in your position might be reluctant to take the same course of action out of fear of being charged with a rule violation by their superior (e.g. - being absent from their assigned duty location).
As a fellow train dispatcher with PTS I completely agree with what you did and probably would have done the same myself. I've seen it far too often were members of the public go onto the track to retrieve an item.
Being self employed my 'manager' stopped my services as I was 'too long' cleaning. One it's covid so I cleaned extra. Two I cleaned well it took 40 minutes he paid me for 30 mins but didn't take into account my due diligence. Sacked for cleaning well.
I think you did the right thing. I recently saw a member of the public jump down on the track to retrieve something for somebody, he said he used to work on the railway and knew what he was doing 👍
I have to say, I can see why your manager said what he said. In a 100% perfect world the lady would have waited, but the world isn’t 100% perfect. I side with you on this one!
Yes you did the right thing, you think for yourself. Management cant think for themselves that's why they are in "management" and pass any blame on when things go wrong. They want the job done but dont want to say yes do it. well done richard, great informative vids
I worked for the railways for 43 years from 1969 until 2012. I started as a Railman on the platform and went all the way down to Rail Operations Manager. I wouldn't trust many of to-day's Managers to able to manage a whelk stall. To-day's Manager has no experience or common sense and knows what he/she knows from book learning and being taught by other five minute wonders. At the local station near to where I used to live the Driver Manager was a 27 year old who's previous job was in Ikea.
I think your motivations in both incidents were good, safety is key and stopping members of the public mindless taking to the tracks si paramount, especially with 705v DC third rails being around. From a leadership perspective, in the first incident you made a quick decision and I think the right one. However I also get your managers perspective about how you did technically leave your post, but given the circumstances - and possible consequences if you had not - you can see why you did it. And even though oyu may have gone against your managers wishes, it shows dilligence and how your always aware of public safety which probably got you your position as a driver. I think you were right though :)
Of course at one time the train guard was responsible for the train, and the secondman could undertake duties of leaving the train to speak to signaller or deal with items blocking the line. Has the the role of BTP changed for trackbed integrity ?
I retrieved many things from the track, always after a chat with the signaller, always in compliance with the rules. What I never did was tell my line manager. It wasn't part of my 'role', and I knew from the start that the thanks of a passenger are normally genuine, but I would have been questioned about why I had left the task that 'management' wanted me to do. All part of the problem of fragmented set of different businesses that created their own 'KPIs' which are not for the benefit of the system user, only for the benefit of those who rake off the money. What should you do when another operator puts an overlength train through your station, and the on board crew cannot dispatch it? The choice is to go and help and minimise delays, or to let it stand there so that your employer can claim for the delay from the operator that caused the problem. Of course, I didn't enjoy standing next to a pair of 47s with 13 carriages and another 47 on the rear, and who could ever enjoy feeling the platform shake as the driver took power. To this day, I don't know what happened at the next station, where the platform is even shorter, and I won't ask. I know who was on duty there, and I can guess that he too went and assisted. The one certainty is that he would have stayed schtumm about it too.
Hi Richard, I really love your videos which are giving me a great insight into train driving. I'd appreciate it if you could suggest particularly effective ways of preparing for train driver tests during the application process. As it only takes two failures on a train driver test to be forever banned from driving a train, I'm really worried about not being fully prepared.😂
Hi, I am not connected to the rail industry in any way other than spending what feels like a million pounds on season tickets to get to work over the years😊. But, it’s through travelling so much by rail that I have an interest in it and as a regular user for most of my life I have a pretty geeky understanding of the railway from this perspective. In answer to your question I think you were right on both occasions, I never have, due to my understanding of the railway, jumped down to retrieve my lost items which has happened a few time by the way, however I have witnessed it many times including one instance a number of years ago which resulted in a person being hit by a train. As a manager of people for most of my career I’m always conscious of rules, procedures and policies but I’m also supportive of my team and colleagues and as such would support them for doing the right thing providing they did this responsibly and safely, even if it was slightly outside of policy. Giving and taking responsibility is something that is lost in some people, you did this on both occasions and in the 2nd example you also acted differently by using your experience and asking for the permission to help.
Hi Richard I’ve been a PCV/HGV Driver for just over 10 years now and I’ve had to do what I thought was right more times than I would like! It is shocking what they’ll do to get someone in the driving seat.
Could you make a video in the future analyzing the progress of automation and whether or not becoming a train driver is still a good career choice? What do you think about it? Will there be completely automated trains in the next 20 to 30 years?
Automation is coming, but it will be part automation and need supervising for a good few years yet. The Role of the driver may change but I think it’s still a good career choice
In the first instance at St Leonard's in my mind you were correct both from the safety point of view and from the customer care point of view in promptly achieving customer satisfaction. Your colleague back up the line by just a few minutes knew where you were so was not really alone. Waiting for the MOM to get there was also safe providing as you rightly point out nobody takes any cavalier action of their own. I would say well done. The second incident is a little greyer perhaps in that the loser of the phone is not your company's customer. However no unsafe action has taken place and action taken could have led to earlier resolution of the problem for all parties. Difficult to criticise on safety grounds but commercially another matter.
If it the rule to get the MOM then it is the rule but lots of RULES are petty and made up by jumped up know it all's who actually very little knowledge. Non rail related but where I once work there was a rule that no one was allowed to use a step ladder unless there was 3 people in attendance. 1 to climb the step ladder, 1 to hold the step ladder and the other to direct any customers walking by away from the step ladder. However there was only ever 2 people on shift at any one time. So you had to break the rule to get your job done but manager went loopy when he finds out, so you ask how do we climb the step ladders if there was only 2 people on shift and not 3. He says that we have to find a 3rd person even if it means getting a customer to put on a high viz. So to climb a 4 step step ladder to retrieve a product from a store shelf we have to ask the customer's permission if they could act as a lookout, go and retrieve the high viz jacket for the customer. Instruct the customer on how to direct other customers away from the step ladder and then get the customer to sign a risk assessment form. Once all that was done the all 3 of us would go and fetch the step ladder and move it to the location whilst the high viz customer would be informing any customers to move out of the way, then one of the staff members could then go up 2 steps on the step ladder to pick the product, they we all had to return the step ladder back to it storage location, collect the high viz jacket from the customer and thank the customer. This took about 15mins just to climb 2 steps on a step ladder, as you can tell the customers were not happy having to do this rigmarole just to get their item. Thank god I left that place!!!
I would like to apply to become a trainee train driver but wear glasses. Is there any eye sight limitations and requirements nationwide that candidates must reach in order to apply? And, if so, what are they? I have looked everywhere but cannot find much information on this ad thought there would be some basic eyesight requirements set out by the government or something just as there is for people wanting to become truck drivers or pilots for instance. Thanks mate!
FWIW, I agree with your evaluations of both incidents. You notified the operational authority and worked to correct the situation. Unrelated question: are the class 66 locomotives the only CC types active in Britain, and the continent for that matter? Other than the Deltics, they are the only one I seem to see in the videos. Asking from the Bay Area of California.
And when I wrote Deltic I meant Class 55 locomotive. Amazing what a few key stroke find. Any way, what I was trying to get to was it seems that GB and the continent have retired (withdrawn) most of their Co-Co types. I remember in the 80's-90's in the U.S. there were predictions that Co-Co's were going to give way to all B-B. Now days you see most GE and EMD Co-Co types on the mainline. I will stop nerding out now.
Providing that all the safety procedures were followed I think you did your best for the public. But one thing to remember is what probably my smartest manager told me many many, many years ago. "You don't know what you don't know." You'll also find that its best not to seek or expect any glory, poor managers want all that for themselves
I notice from watching and listening to many UK train videos that nthere arew many instances of wagons with flat tyres (wheel flats). Network Rail advised that it was the wagon's owner who was responsible. But who are the wagon owners? Can you help please.
Yes to the phone. No to the keys. You've inadvertently placed your colleage at risk, lone working etc etc. The public chosing to ignire insteuctions to wait at their own risk. But.. I get your logic.
There is always going to be some level of risk in anything we do, I guess it’s subjective and all we can do is judge each situation on it’s merits. What’s not clear in the video, although the staff member I left was the only member of platform staff, there were still train crew and ticket office staff around. Lone working was also commonplace when somebody went for there break. Thinking back that’s pretty poor management to allow that!
Triumph of common sense over a possible too literal interpretation of rules and procedures. In both cases, considerably less downside to the railway in what you did and, from the perspective of the passengers, potentially two lives saved and hopefully left with a positive impression of the railway. Well done!
Evening Richard , just watched your blog ref wet cab in Hastings , when you departed later , did you drive from the wet cab? If the same unit formed a back working who drove from the wet cab ?
I remember back in 2014 I was working an agency job at a usually unmanned station which had building works going on, just to give extra assistance to passengers and operating a temporary wheelchair platform while lifts were being fitted. One quiet afternoon a passenger asked for help because she dropped her lottery ticket on the line. She wanted one of us to jump down and get it. I flat out said no, because, well, sod off it's only a lottery ticket, and the line it was on was at the end of a blind corner. She asked if I'd call the signaller to close the line. Again, no. Idiot colleague of mine just said nah it's fine just jumped straight down there. I mean, what you did sounds fine. And I'm all for helping people. But a bloody lottery ticket man!
Hey, just seen this video, yeah I know I'm 2 years late to the party! 😅 Going back to the first example you gave, where you retrieved the keys, did your manager explain why they thought it was irresponsible of you to leave only one member of staff at Hastings? I'm curious whether it was a 'because I said so' thing, or there could be other angles to this kind of situation that they have to consider, which you or I aren't aware of. I'm not a train driver and neither do I work in the industry, I'm just curious about the manager's thought process and reasoning. Is there a rule that says there must always be more than one staff member at present? If so, why? Again, I'm a layman so I could be talking nonsense here, but I'm thinking, if police officers can be single-crewed (and this happens a lot) what's the risk in a station being staffed by just one member of staff? Sure it's not ideal perhaps, but in the situation you've described, I can see your reasoning, but I'm struggling to understand the other side of the argument... Great content by the way!
Im just starting out in the industry, having received my provisional offer, so as you can imagine Im very excited. The manager was a bit mean spirited if you ask me, maybe they were having a bad day.
All I can say on the matter is that the manager years ago probably needs a touch of training in how to run a railway with safety as a priority. To be honest with you I would much rather block a level crossing if it means a member of the public gets to "ride the cushions" once more, and not get a free ride in an ambulance, or worse. As they say where I come from "the boy did good", and you deserve some recognition for your actions. Well done. The second instance you mentioned, in my opinion, was handled in a professional manner and possibly the reason you have not heard anything yet is because you are a freight train driver and not one of the "glory boys" with hundreds of sometimes very angry passengers behind the cab door. Like all incidents each must be treated on an individual basis.
One can understand manager's reaction, if the rule book is paramount in his mind, he can hide behind it, eg, what if something happened and you where critical to manage it, then??? How ever youth and enthusiasm took over, make things happen, the public can only be grateful. However make sure your thinking is clear.
I’m an R02 train dispatcher and where I work you work alone as you know I work for SWR and there you can’t do right for being wrong I don’t have PTS and you used your loaf , ok what if she jumped down either done for track trespass ,killed by a through train or electrocuted ,normal we use a train to block the platform and ask the guard as long as it in the cess and not the 4 foot or in line with the pick up shoe beam
I can see the pov of the original manager. You've left your post and going to get the items weren't your responsibility. However, as someone at the bottom of the food chain Managers and Policy can slow things down when in reality a problem can be solved fairly quickly with some lateral thinking. You didn't just climb on the track, you left a colleague with safety training and who is presumably responsible given they're a dispatcher, you called for a line block and informed the signaller what was happening and potentially stopped something nasty happening. You wouldn't have been at fault if the passenger was injured but your actions likely prevented it.
All decisions in life are cost-benefits. Each policy has advantages and disadvantages. I think you made the right judgements but the others are right to say there were some associated costs too. Your history does not mean that direct intervention is always the right thing to do. A danger of past glories is that you might develop a mind set and always intervene when the situation is different.
All day long, you did the right thing. Saying you can't leave the other guy on his own, utter nonsense. Perhaps you should have taken him with you? After all, there are plenty of unstaffed stations.
I think your previous manager was actually the one who was irresponsible. Fortunately, you've got the right attitude to take the criticism and treat it with the contempt it deserved, but many people would have been put off helping in future. I think you definitely did completely the right thing in both cases.
I'm currently training to become a mainline train driver in the UK. Would anyone be interested if I made a channel and dedicated it to the training process, what to expect on the course and other bits and pieces I pick up that you might not know?
Knowing someone who actually dropped their phone on the track once, i don't see anything wrong with what you did. I consider it thoughtful, because in that situation, no doubt the passenger had panicked. And if it weren't for you, probably would have gone onto the tracks themselves to retrieve it. Think your manager was a bit out of order about that. Maybe he could've expressed his concern but still give you somewhat of a well done for sorting that out.
youre not a robot you used your common sense to not only sort it out safely for the person who dropped it but also help your colleagues because you wouldve sorted it out much quicker than the people who were meant to so less delays esier job. might have been better to just look if you can actually see the phone while youre rolling up to the platform cuz it wouldve been easier but we can all make better decisions after the moment we actually need to make them.
I had a very strang incident happen at keynsham station where the train got held up with something on the track, it turned into a total farse for over a hour, it would make a good video for you, drop me a message if you want to no more, its had me confused for ages, keep safe Andy.
If you use common sense and it turns out well, your bosses take all the kudos and credit. If the remotest thing goes wrong, your bosses will drop you in it like a hot potato. It's called "the higher ups covering their posteriors", or words to that effect.
After a certain amount of time as a driver you'll find that management opinions become white noise and the notes they put in your pigeon hole are great as toilet paper.
Exactly why we pass the decision to the SSM and they in turn often kick that ball over to the Incident Controller :P TRUST then of course still put in an OC :(
For the sake of 10 minutes in the 1st and 5mins in the 2nd I'd say it was the right thing. As for "should have been more careful" .... well shit happens (mistakes happen).
Unfortunately blame culture is a big part of life. And big companies will always want you to follow the rule book. But well done on trying to be helpful!
Well done Richard you 100% did the right thing, and if your managers don't see that there just ignorant
Your manager years ago sounds like he or she would be a nightmare at a party. Life is about managing risk and what you did was take the action that would remove the biggest risk. Moreover, you didn't do it off your own back and instead asked the signaller for permission. I presume that the signaller has ultimate authority over what happens on the permanent way and if that is indeed the case your manager should have spoken to them about it as ultimately, if the signaller said "No", you wouldn't have done it.
You did the right thing, in both cases you liased with the signaller, and also avoided a passenger putting themselves at risk , who possibly had no idea about 3rd rail 750v DC at up to 2000 amps.
In the first case, if it had been something 'obstructing' the line you would have been TOLD to go up the track even if it left someone else on their own.(I'm ex railway, most of it on or near the track including being a Railman,Guard, Supervisor and Station Manager.) Too many managers, even a long time ago, are direct graduate entries with no common sense or practical knowledge as to how to run a railway.
You did the right thing in my opinion. I saw an identical incident at Horsley on the Guildford New Line in summer 2018. It was a Sunday so the station was unstaffed. A young lady dropped her phone on the up line whilst alighting from a train. She was able to alert the conductor, who contacted the signaller, (or the driver did). She was told to stay where she was and the signaller would ask the driver of the next down train to retrieve the phone. Sure enough, about 10 minutes later a down train pulled in and I noticed that the driver was on the cab-to-shore RT, probably confirming that the up signals were at danger. The driver then went onto the track, picked up the phone, returned it to the teary-eyed teenager and returned to her cab for departure to profuse thanks.
I think you did the right thing, on both occasions. I understand why in the first instance you were criticised but you didn’t endanger anyone as a result of your actions. To stop your freight service to offer assistance to a passenger who you otherwise wouldn’t have had any contact with, with the permission of the signaller is in my opinion extremely generous of you, and I firmly believe it’s a true representation of our rail networks staff. Railway staff are a different to most other people I find. They’re all completely dedicated to their work and always seem to be very happy in their job. People slate the railway unfairly. I think people should take more time to understand the railway before casting judgment. I’d love to work on the railway! Maybe one day... happy Christmas to you.
I think you did the right thing. My early working life was full of management who trusted us enough to put us on the front line and deal with the customers face-to-face (especially looking after thousands of pounds of cash and credit transactions each day) but would then kick up a fuss when we faced unforeseen circumstances and did the right thing by the customer AND the business, but which appeared to undermine them because they weren't in the decision loop. Similarly, I once stopped to help after a motorway crash, (M1 near Huddersfield) and managed to stop the traffic on all three lanes, preventing people ploughing into an upturned car in the outside lane... I then got a dressing down from a copper who arrived some time later, telling me the motorway is a dangerous place... oh please! He could have at least said "Thank you, we appreciate that, but just take care in the future" but no, I literally got a lecture as if I was 5 years old.
Very interesting. I think you did the right thing in both instances, given the proper focus on safety.
I like your knowledge on railways. Very interesting video.
Thank you
This is big picture - little picture stuff. Paying attention to the little things is what makes the big things work. Dead bodes and injured members of the public stop railways. So if members of the public don’t feel the need to do silly things like walk on the tracks to retrieve dropped items our railways will run better. It is also important to remember that railways are run by people for people. It also looks good on social media.
I also have from time to time done some “strange” things as far as my company were concerned. Graciously, after the event, they agreed with my decisions.
Hook switch pole. That’s what they’re for, used it many times!
I'm one of your new subscribers you mentioned at the start of the video, I got on board (if you'll pardon the pun) after watching the GWR post, love your videos, keep up the good work. So far as did you do the right thing? You're old school, and I don't use that phrase with any negative undertone whatsoever. You want to help, not just passengers, but the network, and I applaud that.
These are just examples of blame culture and liability claims. The first thought of companies now is always: "How do we avoid being sued?"
Very interesting. Just found your channel as thinking of Joining Southern as a Shunter Driver (moving from LUL), going to look through more of your videos.
I’ve done this a couple of times as a passenger service driver although on 25kV AC. I didn’t tell management because I knew that they wouldn’t make a quick decision, I told the signaller and platform staff and got a block then retrieved the phone, if you don’t mention it to them it tends to be ignorable after the event and you won’t hear anything as long as you did it safely.
You were definitely right both times, leaving an item there rather than picking it up is an example of being a jobsworth in my opinion. You can't win with the public and managers, only one or the other.
Hi, great video's , I've only just found you in the last few weeks( GWR Speeding). Yes I would say that you made the correct decision on that afternoon in Hastings. It's something we used to do all the time when most station staff used to hold personal track safety certificate's.... No waiting on a MOM to come out , just a call from the signal box to assist.
My guess is the first manager was a "degree manager". Got their job because they had the right qualifications on paper but little/no experience to back it up, experience being the most important tool to have in your box. You made a dynamic risk assessment and the risk to the MOP was much greater than leaving your colleague alone for 30 mins. Not only do you have a third rail but restricted clearance with no refuges within a platform. How would a MOP get a block, they can't. A "railway manager" who's worked in the real world would have backed you up
In my professional opinion (as a former mainline and LU driver) you certainly did the right thing. I have had several near misses over the years with people jumping down to retrieve keys/phones etc. Probably was even more worrying on LUL due to the 4th rail down the middle of the track! Lower speeds, but much higher chance of being electrocuted!
I think some managers just can't see the big picture for whatever reason, but I most certainly say you did right!
I really appreciate this! I’m a signaler (train dispatcher) in the U.S. and I enjoy hearing how other countries conduct railroad operations. Indeed you did do the right thing! I know there are many who would have done the same thing here in the U.S. but just as many in your position might be reluctant to take the same course of action out of fear of being charged with a rule violation by their superior (e.g. - being absent from their assigned duty location).
Great video very clear to understand great to see the Railway takes safely very serious have a good Christmas and New Year
As a fellow train dispatcher with PTS I completely agree with what you did and probably would have done the same myself. I've seen it far too often were members of the public go onto the track to retrieve an item.
Being self employed my 'manager' stopped my services as I was 'too long' cleaning. One it's covid so I cleaned extra. Two I cleaned well it took 40 minutes he paid me for 30 mins but didn't take into account my due diligence. Sacked for cleaning well.
Wow sorry to hear that! Doesn’t sound fair to me
You did the right thing.
I think you did the right thing. I recently saw a member of the public jump down on the track to retrieve something for somebody, he said he used to work on the railway and knew what he was doing 👍
I have to say, I can see why your manager said what he said. In a 100% perfect world the lady would have waited, but the world isn’t 100% perfect. I side with you on this one!
Yes you did the right thing, you think for yourself. Management cant think for themselves that's why they are in "management" and pass any blame on when things go wrong. They want the job done but dont want to say yes do it. well done richard, great informative vids
I worked for the railways for 43 years from 1969 until 2012. I started as a Railman on the platform and went all the way down to Rail Operations Manager. I wouldn't trust many of to-day's Managers to able to manage a whelk stall. To-day's Manager has no experience or common sense and knows what he/she knows from book learning and being taught by other five minute wonders. At the local station near to where I used to live the Driver Manager was a 27 year old who's previous job was in Ikea.
I think your motivations in both incidents were good, safety is key and stopping members of the public mindless taking to the tracks si paramount, especially with 705v DC third rails being around. From a leadership perspective, in the first incident you made a quick decision and I think the right one. However I also get your managers perspective about how you did technically leave your post, but given the circumstances - and possible consequences if you had not - you can see why you did it. And even though oyu may have gone against your managers wishes, it shows dilligence and how your always aware of public safety which probably got you your position as a driver. I think you were right though :)
Of course at one time the train guard was responsible for the train, and the secondman could undertake duties of leaving the train to speak to signaller or deal with items blocking the line. Has the the role of BTP changed for trackbed integrity ?
You definitely did the right thing and I disagree with your manager in the first incident. Very entertaining video :)
A real hero
I retrieved many things from the track, always after a chat with the signaller, always in compliance with the rules. What I never did was tell my line manager. It wasn't part of my 'role', and I knew from the start that the thanks of a passenger are normally genuine, but I would have been questioned about why I had left the task that 'management' wanted me to do. All part of the problem of fragmented set of different businesses that created their own 'KPIs' which are not for the benefit of the system user, only for the benefit of those who rake off the money. What should you do when another operator puts an overlength train through your station, and the on board crew cannot dispatch it? The choice is to go and help and minimise delays, or to let it stand there so that your employer can claim for the delay from the operator that caused the problem. Of course, I didn't enjoy standing next to a pair of 47s with 13 carriages and another 47 on the rear, and who could ever enjoy feeling the platform shake as the driver took power. To this day, I don't know what happened at the next station, where the platform is even shorter, and I won't ask. I know who was on duty there, and I can guess that he too went and assisted. The one certainty is that he would have stayed schtumm about it too.
Are you and your family ok? I miss your videos. Hope you get well through this pandemic.
All good thank you, I’ve been without a computer so no editing facilities. New one is on order.
Hi Richard, I really love your videos which are giving me a great insight into train driving. I'd appreciate it if you could suggest particularly effective ways of preparing for train driver tests during the application process. As it only takes two failures on a train driver test to be forever banned from driving a train, I'm really worried about not being fully prepared.😂
Funny to hear Virginia Water and then Egham having studied at Royal Holloway in Egham for a few years. Small world.
Please come back
Miss this channel
The longer you leave the person waiting for help. The more likely they or someone else will jump down onto the track.
I agree
Hi, I am not connected to the rail industry in any way other than spending what feels like a million pounds on season tickets to get to work over the years😊. But, it’s through travelling so much by rail that I have an interest in it and as a regular user for most of my life I have a pretty geeky understanding of the railway from this perspective. In answer to your question I think you were right on both occasions, I never have, due to my understanding of the railway, jumped down to retrieve my lost items which has happened a few time by the way, however I have witnessed it many times including one instance a number of years ago which resulted in a person being hit by a train. As a manager of people for most of my career I’m always conscious of rules, procedures and policies but I’m also supportive of my team and colleagues and as such would support them for doing the right thing providing they did this responsibly and safely, even if it was slightly outside of policy. Giving and taking responsibility is something that is lost in some people, you did this on both occasions and in the 2nd example you also acted differently by using your experience and asking for the permission to help.
Hi Richard
I’ve been a PCV/HGV Driver for just over 10 years now and I’ve had to do what I thought was right more times than I would like! It is shocking what they’ll do to get someone in the driving seat.
Could you make a video in the future analyzing the progress of automation and whether or not becoming a train driver is still a good career choice? What do you think about it? Will there be completely automated trains in the next 20 to 30 years?
Automation is coming, but it will be part automation and need supervising for a good few years yet. The Role of the driver may change but I think it’s still a good career choice
Great Video, Some valuable information in the video for the start of my railway career. Thank You :)
From afar (NZ) I note that freight trains are getting longer and longer. Do you have video of the marshaling of these trains please.
In my opinion you did the best you could in the circumstances Richard, that's all anyone can ask or expect
In the first instance at St Leonard's in my mind you were correct both from the safety point of view and from the customer care point of view in promptly achieving customer satisfaction. Your colleague back up the line by just a few minutes knew where you were so was not really alone. Waiting for the MOM to get there was also safe providing as you rightly point out nobody takes any cavalier action of their own. I would say well done.
The second incident is a little greyer perhaps in that the loser of the phone is not your company's customer. However no unsafe action has taken place and action taken could have led to earlier resolution of the problem for all parties. Difficult to criticise on safety grounds but commercially another matter.
I think you did the right thing
If it the rule to get the MOM then it is the rule but lots of RULES are petty and made up by jumped up know it all's who actually very little knowledge. Non rail related but where I once work there was a rule that no one was allowed to use a step ladder unless there was 3 people in attendance. 1 to climb the step ladder, 1 to hold the step ladder and the other to direct any customers walking by away from the step ladder. However there was only ever 2 people on shift at any one time. So you had to break the rule to get your job done but manager went loopy when he finds out, so you ask how do we climb the step ladders if there was only 2 people on shift and not 3. He says that we have to find a 3rd person even if it means getting a customer to put on a high viz. So to climb a 4 step step ladder to retrieve a product from a store shelf we have to ask the customer's permission if they could act as a lookout, go and retrieve the high viz jacket for the customer. Instruct the customer on how to direct other customers away from the step ladder and then get the customer to sign a risk assessment form. Once all that was done the all 3 of us would go and fetch the step ladder and move it to the location whilst the high viz customer would be informing any customers to move out of the way, then one of the staff members could then go up 2 steps on the step ladder to pick the product, they we all had to return the step ladder back to it storage location, collect the high viz jacket from the customer and thank the customer. This took about 15mins just to climb 2 steps on a step ladder, as you can tell the customers were not happy having to do this rigmarole just to get their item. Thank god I left that place!!!
Have my MMI coming up. Any tips / advice please ?
As a video suggestion, I think it would be nice to see you talk about how it is working over lockdown and all that.
I would like to apply to become a trainee train driver but wear glasses. Is there any eye sight limitations and requirements nationwide that candidates must reach in order to apply? And, if so, what are they? I have looked everywhere but cannot find much information on this ad thought there would be some basic eyesight requirements set out by the government or something just as there is for people wanting to become truck drivers or pilots for instance. Thanks mate!
FWIW, I agree with your evaluations of both incidents. You notified the operational authority and worked to correct the situation. Unrelated question: are the class 66 locomotives the only CC types active in Britain, and the continent for that matter? Other than the Deltics, they are the only one I seem to see in the videos. Asking from the Bay Area of California.
When you say CC do you mean Co-Co boogie type if you do then there are a few locos that have them such as the class 47
@@DadRail Yes, I do mean Co-Co(translation from Merkin English). Thank you.
And when I wrote Deltic I meant Class 55 locomotive. Amazing what a few key stroke find. Any way, what I was trying to get to was it seems that GB and the continent have retired (withdrawn) most of their Co-Co types. I remember in the 80's-90's in the U.S. there were predictions that Co-Co's were going to give way to all B-B. Now days you see most GE and EMD Co-Co types on the mainline. I will stop nerding out now.
Providing that all the safety procedures were followed I think you did your best for the public. But one thing to remember is what probably my smartest manager told me many many, many years ago. "You don't know what you don't know."
You'll also find that its best not to seek or expect any glory, poor managers want all that for themselves
I notice from watching and listening to many UK train videos that nthere arew many instances of wagons with flat tyres (wheel flats). Network Rail advised that it was the wagon's owner who was responsible. But who are the wagon owners? Can you help please.
The wagons are the responsibility of the train operating or freight operating company that ownes / leases them.
Yes to the phone. No to the keys. You've inadvertently placed your colleage at risk, lone working etc etc. The public chosing to ignire insteuctions to wait at their own risk. But.. I get your logic.
There is always going to be some level of risk in anything we do, I guess it’s subjective and all we can do is judge each situation on it’s merits.
What’s not clear in the video, although the staff member I left was the only member of platform staff, there were still train crew and ticket office staff around. Lone working was also commonplace when somebody went for there break. Thinking back that’s pretty poor management to allow that!
Triumph of common sense over a possible too literal interpretation of rules and procedures. In both cases, considerably less downside to the railway in what you did and, from the perspective of the passengers, potentially two lives saved and hopefully left with a positive impression of the railway. Well done!
Evening Richard , just watched your blog ref wet cab in Hastings , when you departed later , did you drive from the wet cab?
If the same unit formed a back working who drove from the wet cab ?
I remember back in 2014 I was working an agency job at a usually unmanned station which had building works going on, just to give extra assistance to passengers and operating a temporary wheelchair platform while lifts were being fitted. One quiet afternoon a passenger asked for help because she dropped her lottery ticket on the line. She wanted one of us to jump down and get it. I flat out said no, because, well, sod off it's only a lottery ticket, and the line it was on was at the end of a blind corner. She asked if I'd call the signaller to close the line. Again, no. Idiot colleague of mine just said nah it's fine just jumped straight down there.
I mean, what you did sounds fine. And I'm all for helping people. But a bloody lottery ticket man!
Hey, just seen this video, yeah I know I'm 2 years late to the party! 😅
Going back to the first example you gave, where you retrieved the keys, did your manager explain why they thought it was irresponsible of you to leave only one member of staff at Hastings?
I'm curious whether it was a 'because I said so' thing, or there could be other angles to this kind of situation that they have to consider, which you or I aren't aware of.
I'm not a train driver and neither do I work in the industry, I'm just curious about the manager's thought process and reasoning.
Is there a rule that says there must always be more than one staff member at present? If so, why?
Again, I'm a layman so I could be talking nonsense here, but I'm thinking, if police officers can be single-crewed (and this happens a lot) what's the risk in a station being staffed by just one member of staff?
Sure it's not ideal perhaps, but in the situation you've described, I can see your reasoning, but I'm struggling to understand the other side of the argument...
Great content by the way!
Im just starting out in the industry, having received my provisional offer, so as you can imagine Im very excited. The manager was a bit mean spirited if you ask me, maybe they were having a bad day.
Of course you did Richard
All I can say on the matter is that the manager years ago probably needs a touch of training in how to run a railway with safety as a priority. To be honest with you I would much rather block a level crossing if it means a member of the public gets to "ride the cushions" once more, and not get a free ride in an ambulance, or worse. As they say where I come from "the boy did good", and you deserve some recognition for your actions. Well done. The second instance you mentioned, in my opinion, was handled in a professional manner and possibly the reason you have not heard anything yet is because you are a freight train driver and not one of the "glory boys" with hundreds of sometimes very angry passengers behind the cab door. Like all incidents each must be treated on an individual basis.
One can understand manager's reaction, if the rule book is paramount in his mind, he can hide behind it, eg, what if something happened and you where critical to manage it, then??? How ever youth and enthusiasm took over, make things happen, the public can only be grateful. However make sure your thinking is clear.
Bloke got killed at Clapham jumping down to retrieve a phone or Filofax. Not the only one!
I’m an R02 train dispatcher and where I work you work alone as you know I work for SWR and there you can’t do right for being wrong I don’t have PTS and you used your loaf , ok what if she jumped down either done for track trespass ,killed by a through train or electrocuted ,normal we use a train to block the platform and ask the guard as long as it in the cess and not the 4 foot or in line with the pick up shoe beam
I can see the pov of the original manager. You've left your post and going to get the items weren't your responsibility.
However, as someone at the bottom of the food chain Managers and Policy can slow things down when in reality a problem can be solved fairly quickly with some lateral thinking. You didn't just climb on the track, you left a colleague with safety training and who is presumably responsible given they're a dispatcher, you called for a line block and informed the signaller what was happening and potentially stopped something nasty happening.
You wouldn't have been at fault if the passenger was injured but your actions likely prevented it.
All decisions in life are cost-benefits. Each policy has advantages and disadvantages. I think you made the right judgements but the others are right to say there were some associated costs too. Your history does not mean that direct intervention is always the right thing to do. A danger of past glories is that you might develop a mind set and always intervene when the situation is different.
All day long, you did the right thing. Saying you can't leave the other guy on his own, utter nonsense. Perhaps you should have taken him with you? After all, there are plenty of unstaffed stations.
I think this is actually vlog 13 now! Keep going with the videos otherwise :)
I think your previous manager was actually the one who was irresponsible. Fortunately, you've got the right attitude to take the criticism and treat it with the contempt it deserved, but many people would have been put off helping in future. I think you definitely did completely the right thing in both cases.
I'm currently training to become a mainline train driver in the UK. Would anyone be interested if I made a channel and dedicated it to the training process, what to expect on the course and other bits and pieces I pick up that you might not know?
Your manager sounds like mine. Anything you do, he thinks that you should have done the opposite.
He was pretty good to be fair, we just didn't see eye to eye on this issue.
Knowing someone who actually dropped their phone on the track once, i don't see anything wrong with what you did. I consider it thoughtful, because in that situation, no doubt the passenger had panicked. And if it weren't for you, probably would have gone onto the tracks themselves to retrieve it.
Think your manager was a bit out of order about that. Maybe he could've expressed his concern but still give you somewhat of a well done for sorting that out.
youre not a robot you used your common sense to not only sort it out safely for the person who dropped it but also help your colleagues because you wouldve sorted it out much quicker than the people who were meant to so less delays esier job.
might have been better to just look if you can actually see the phone while youre rolling up to the platform cuz it wouldve been easier but we can all make better decisions after the moment we actually need to make them.
The L'ion battery would have exploded and spread hazardous waste.
I had a very strang incident happen at keynsham station where the train got held up with something on the track, it turned into a total farse for over a hour, it would make a good video for you, drop me a message if you want to no more, its had me confused for ages, keep safe Andy.
If you use common sense and it turns out well, your bosses take all the kudos and credit. If the remotest thing goes wrong, your bosses will drop you in it like a hot potato. It's called "the higher ups covering their posteriors", or words to that effect.
After a certain amount of time as a driver you'll find that management opinions become white noise and the notes they put in your pigeon hole are great as toilet paper.
Love it
Why are they so secretive about what you may post on social media?
Please try roblox SCR.
It’s the signallers fault he’s the one that said yes
Exactly why we pass the decision to the SSM and they in turn often kick that ball over to the Incident Controller :P TRUST then of course still put in an OC :(
For the sake of 10 minutes in the 1st and 5mins in the 2nd I'd say it was the right thing. As for "should have been more careful" .... well shit happens (mistakes happen).
I think that manager was harsh
Unfortunately blame culture is a big part of life. And big companies will always want you to follow the rule book. But well done on trying to be helpful!
meh bruh
You have put on weight although personally it suits you 👌