My eyes wide-open when I listened about your screen-speculation, it makes sense!!!!! I was very disappointed about bigger black-plastic in top tube but now I love it! ❤
it probably is very good of a bike but, without a vpp, it looks like a generic frame; if you remove the SC sticker and write ZangJuang on it, no one would bat an eye.
@@JoeBernard10 it is a made up name;(hopefully , there's no ZangJuang out there)but, if you believe that generic frames made in china cannot go and do 95-99% of what this bike is doing, you haven't been paying attention to this channel very much.
of course nobody who has no desire to feel a well developed kinematic and enjoy dialled geo would know. AKA Hubbards. let them buy open mould. who cares
I’ve been away from bikes all together for the past 3 years and a lot has changed… except for pricing. £6,699 starting price is not entry level pricing, but Santa Cruz have never been an entry level brand; you want a Santa Cruz as opposed to needing it, so to speak. That aside, I’ve loved Santa Cruz for years - I like their attention to detail (especially with cable routing), their warranty is excellent, and they just have such nice clean lines and design. When I used to be a bicycle mechanic (for 22 years), I really enjoyed building them; they always went together so nicely and the guys at Jungle (who were their importer, but I don’t know who it is now) were great to deal with. All I need now, is that lottery win. Anyway, your channel has blown up massively over the years to just under a million subs, Rob, and your videos are still as clear as they ever were, so I can see why your channel is so popular and has grown so much. Keep up the great work and all the best.
HECK YEAH, finally the Bosh downhill noise is gone. It's SO loud when riding on my Strive:ON. Eventhough you get used to it, not having that constant clonking is such a W.
The only thing really wrong with this bike is that you’re gonna ask Santa Cruz money for the same bike you can buy for 25 to 30% cheaper from 12 other bike companies.
same bike from other companies? since when has Santa Cruz ever been like all other bikes? Just because the Lower linkage rotates in a different direction and is longer? really? not even considering quality, lifetime bearing warranty, geometry etc...?
@@Mvees bearings are cheap. A lot of companies make really quality stuff not just Santa Cruz. I said there’s nothing wrong with the bike. It’s just 25 to 30% more money than a lot of bikes that do exactly the same thing.
It gets interesting when you compare the bike with the new Rise LT. The Santa, as a mullet setup with an air shock and carbon wheels, weighs over 1kg more compared to a full 29er bike with a coil shock and (slightly) even more battery capacity. Good job, Orbea!
@@Mvees Really? Have you already had a chance to test the new Rise LT? Or the Vala? The geometry data is almost identical, so I’m really curious how you came to that conclusion.
Rise Lt M10 630 w. They don’t say anything about the weight. I think the rise with air shock 630 W must be over 20 maybe 21 Kg and that’s not far away from this proper Santa. I think the Frame of SC is thicker and more stable. the sc is better in rough terrain. Orbea more for sports. Both very good bikes. Not easy to make a decision…
Nice looking bike. SC have done the same as Yeti because the motor wont allow them to improve the current suspension kinematics. It makes sense to me. Hopefully, it rides just as well as the VPP if not better.
I actually like this a lot, moved away from Santa Cruz when I wanted an e-bike. I would have bought this instead of my Unno Mith which to me is a spiritual successor to a what Santa Cruz could be doing to innovate with VPP.
Good looking bike and the geo and spec looks great. Perhaps moving away from the VPP on their emtb's is a good idea for Santa Cruz and it looks like it makes sense from a design/performance perspective.
What did Brose know in 2018 that they all are trying to achieve now. The rattles in later bikes and thecoffee grinder sound of the pinion MGU would kill the joy of Emtb for me. I've updated my 2018 super silent, smooth and powerful 1.3 Brose Levo with a Rohloff manual change hub,170 mm Fox 38's 150mm cranks, 9piont8 steering head slacker kit + fox DPX2 shock. The silence is golden and goodbye derailleurs for me. A brand new spare sealed, updated motor and two 500wh batteries are the go for me.Going backwards with updates gives me what I want until they can come up with something as silent , smooth and reliable. E=mtb²
I've been riding MTB for 10 years and before that road and raced road for 30. I'm 6'4", the first MTB to fit properly has been the Nomad 6 in XXL. It's superior in every way that matters to any bike I've had, (I've had many), it's in another league. Two things; stack and rear center. Rob should have the XXL for comparison, I've been following his reviews and builds for a while, he always wants be believe life is better on XL, when a proper size up is available, try it. DJI? We will see, how many will put down the hard earned when it's said and done, we will see how it goes over time. This bike won't break or creak, if it does it's taken care of in a week, it comes into your possession properly built. Bikes that compare are Crestline and the Slash+, if I were 6' I'd look at them, unfortunately it's a full size difference. The Nicolai MGU?, it's 60 lbs!, it's not a trail bike, at least they offer bikes for taller people, the one I would get still doesn't have the stack of the SC. The horse power wars are not going to making better bikes, if you need more range, that's a different bike. I look forward to Rob telling us the range of the Nicolai, and the DJI, I bet this bike comes close enough for most or us, I'm guessing the DJI won't be close in handling the rough and real of true single track.
Great video. I like santacruz. I had a few in the years gone by . the last one i owned was a 2020/21 tallboy. A lot of comments with regards to the suspension , other brands use vpp not just sc the biggest disappointment about this is the 600 battery, 10k for a ride that can only do 3hrs ? 1kg of a difference in weight if they had put an 800 battery in ? Seriously? It's a Great looking ride, but there is no chance iam buying this , there is better rides out there , lighter , faster with bigger batteries and the same new bosch motor in the frame. But each to their own.
not a santa cruz customer never had one it might not look stunning but it looks great to me, love the green and gold color it's trunnion which isn't soft on shocks but better than yoke according to the 50 videos I watched about the subject last week I didn't know what VPP was and wouldn't want it not a fan of the shock being that down and exposed
Super sweet Bike. I will definitely consider it for my next bike, although technology is evolving so fast. I hope they offer a build kit with the Zeb and Vivid Air. Also, I’ve seen that the Liverpool force on the maven’s is really high, so I wouldn’t be down with that. Bigger manufacturers really need to allow you to pick your parts. Otherwise you’re wasting a ton of time and money.
Indeed. I also love my Giant Reign E+ 1 PRO, only thing I'd like to is a bigger battery, 600/625 would be great instead of the 500 one. Although, I only once managed to discharge it to 0%.
All bikes can be expensive. The Specialized S-Works Epic World Cup LTD xc bike is £12.5k and doesn't have a motor. People don't have to buy the most expensive bike every time...
I can see the attraction of a quite set up but can easily handle the audio of my cyclone and CYC mid drives, no bell needed,, also the silent motors seem to be what people complain about, huge kw seem less of an issue
Guy Kesteven has said the designer of current Santa Cruz bikes doesn't like VPP. So this could be an early indication of what the 2026 pedal bikes will look like. It'd be easy to develop a 120,140,160,180mm version of this suspension platform.
As that famous saying goes.. “it looks like a Rail!!” Looks like they’ve raided the Rail spec sheet Rob. Although, using the 600 battery is a good move as it keeps the down tube and therefore reach at sensible proportions.
Superb quality and remarkably balanced, as usual. I ride an XL Bullit and I can have one of those at the same spec for 21.3kg…. And when I did a ride almost identical to the one you did at Dalby in the dry I got the same height and 46km, similar average pace and a shorter journey time (mix of trail, eco and boost) and that was the old 800 EP8, the new one has the 801. It’s battery is 630 Whr, so only a little but more. So, which would you choose…? The Bullit XL I ride with more rise on the bars doesn’t have any of the problems you described with the front end. Anyway, I’ll not be buying this, but the next Bullit and let’s just hope they let you take the battery out as they do now….
thanks for the edit. In essence, they cant use their signature "best in class" suspension due to seatpost and motor constrains. Looks so random to me now
About that. They couldn't get the anti rise and anti squat where they wanted it to be with their take of vpp and a bosch cx. A zf centrix probably would have allowed for that but isn't available yet and im not sure if i would want it over the new cx, the centrix is not as quiet and current reviews say that it has a rather punchy feel to it, not as easily controlled as the bosch, but things may change due to improvements in software.
I always liked how Tuner Bikes looked! But.... #1 - "They model the suspension to feel like SC" So... we don't need VPP to have a really nice bike? Ahahah Bosch is getting rousted by DJI... not even tear offs will clear the vision! DJI introduced a revolution in eMTB. You can have "POWA", and not weight a PIG. Replacing my current emtb, I won't go old bikes!
Really nice looking bike , personally it needs at least a 720 watt hour battery, and I still think manufacturers haven’t learnt why they have been selling off bikes with lots of discounts, the thing is over priced
Sry Santa, but I am very happy now, to have bought a Heckler with EP801 last year. ^^ The Vala (good looking) looks like a complete random MTB without the VPP Design. Could be a Trek, TR, Focus, CUBE...
I would much prefer what you bought👍. Shimano motor I have I dont even have a slight desire to have anything else. I ride my GFs e bike with a bosche gen 4 and I dont feel it is any better what so ever.
Yeah, I'm not paying Santa Cruz money for a generic 4 bar bike. Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY happy with my Cube Stereo Hybrid 160, and even happier that I could probably buy 2 of them for the price of a Santa Cruz...
People love complaining, Bosch managed to improve an already pretty good motor and making it even better and enjoyable. Also 85nm is more than enough for 99% of people. Also you can get Bosch cx at 3000€ vs DJI starting 7000€
True. Barely anyone is on Turbo mode the whole time and feels power starved. Why jumping in power then? And when people were asked what they appreciate the most / are annoyed the most by motors virtually nobody complained about power but noise, durability and smoothness of support. All of those things were addressed by Bosch and still complaints. In the EMTB podcast the guy from Crestline hinted that there is more juice in the motor than the 85Nm stated on paper right now. (btw: ich don’t drive a bike with a Bosch motor)
@@HFrizzler 100% spot on. If you want moar power get a Stark Varg or a moto. Power such as the dgi will only be good for fire road winching. Of very little value in real life technical single track riding...
No backward compatability and power not keeping up with competition, but now there's a plastic gear. 😂
3 หลายเดือนก่อน
great review, Rob. you mention at the end that you have a long torso and prefer geometry with higher rear center number... i am in the same boat.... in your opinion which bikes have long rear center geo? thanks!
Off the top of my head, Crestline and not that many more (many brands try to keep the rear ends as short as possible, which works for some of the frame sizes for sure but on XL and XXL, they’re normally disproportionately balanced to the rear). There’s one coming soon that really bucks this trend though, so not long for more options, and I think that more brands will be doing better proportionally longer rear centres in the future.
Should come with the kiox 300 display, wouldn't wanna miss the information and navigation while riding anymore. Taking out your smartphone the whole time is annoying. Do you remove the battery downwards (so the bike has to stand upside down or lay on the side)?
You say you have seen the heat management chart. I have been wondering how the dji avinox motor does with heat management. Would love to see some graphs or info on both motors.
One magnet at the valve stem is the default configuration for the new bsoch motors. There are big ugly ones available that are visible from outside and smaller ones that sit inside the rim. Swapping them may cause detection issues. The sensor is btw wireless
Nice review once again Rob looks like you rode barking dog, possibly dog leash? I must’ve just missed you guys. I was riding there on last Tuesday afternoon.
What is the largest chain ring this bike will take. My Trek Rail will take a 38 without clearance issues. Less aggressive tires and larger chain ring will make bike perfect.
Lots of things to like about this one specifically the new Bosch motor I believe is superior to Shimano. The negatives is the small battery and the suspension design is still negotiable based on how it rides. I just don’t get how this new model differs from the heckler besides making the suspension worse
New SC... interesting, but not groundbreaking. What I want to know is, which bike to you prefer from your two recent builds, the Nicolai you bought yourself or the Amflow? When are the reviews coming Rob?
Looks nice and just like an Orbea Wild, probably more expensive. That said if you're in Europe, it makes sense to get a bike made in Europe, if in America it might make sense to get a US made bike.
hi Rob, So if its 250 w nominal for Epac legislation, does that mean that the motor has to drop down in wattage within a set period of time and if so how long is that time to meet Epac regulation?
The 250w is the average output within a time frame of 30 minutes, which should not be exceeded by these motors according to the law. But in reality most motors don't restrict the output noticeable, only if they overheat on a big climb, so it's more a theoretical law on paper, no one really cares
I am almost sure the new display could work with this. What I am curious about is: does this pair to either a Garmin with ANT+ or an Apple Watch? Reason: 600Wh battery with just a few bars is not enough. I don't see a percentage and I go crazy. I literally put on a Garmin when I am on my ebike just to see a percentage.
No, only by unscrewing the motor. The inbuilt battery helps santa cruz to keep down the overall weight (there's also an exploded drawing on their website where you can see, that there is no opening)
The new CX is overall better than DJI, keep in mind the DJI starts at 7000€ and has zero Dealers/longevity data. People love complaining, Bosch managed to improve an already pretty good motor and making it even better and enjoyable. Also 85nm is more than enough for 99% of people. Also you can get Bosch cx at 3000€ vs DJI starting 7000€
I forecast a big drop in sales soon with this little increases. Why would i spend another 10k to not even loose significant weight . Ebikes had already enough power
I actually love it but the builds/costs are outrageous for the current market. I got an eagle powertrain Ekano2 CF with GX AXS drive, ultimate suspension, code RSC's and electronic dropper for $7400 and that same money would get me an NX build Vala with base suspension and DB8 brakes. Too many options now a days to be asking this kind of money for no value besides the name.
Nearly everyone wants value for money, but some brands with their view of bikes as "luxury items" are still there, waiting for big money, until they will start begging for our money or bankrupt.
@@TCK71 Still perfectly reasonable to buy a cheaper one from a different brand .. I'd go Cube, Canyon or specifically the newest Orbea rise but as soon as you pay out amflow money theres just no point getting anything else..
Still love my Santa Cruz Bullit wife loves her heckler, nice to see moved over to Bosch.
Every e-bike engine and bike you test is the best.
Always the Bosch one. :)
Too scared to say anything negative so it’s either “neutral or best in the world”
My eyes wide-open when I listened about your screen-speculation, it makes sense!!!!! I was very disappointed about bigger black-plastic in top tube but now I love it! ❤
it probably is very good of a bike but, without a vpp, it looks like a generic frame; if you remove the SC sticker and write ZangJuang on it, no one would bat an eye.
Actually it looks like specialized and SC had a baby. I really like it minus the price. May have to demo and wait till they go on sale.
I don't think ZangJuang can develop a bike built to send the poached trails in this video.
@@JoeBernard10 it is a made up name;(hopefully , there's no ZangJuang out there)but, if you believe that generic frames made in china cannot go and do 95-99% of what this bike is doing, you haven't been paying attention to this channel very much.
@@eugenux You might be right, but I’m not willing to bet my life on it.
of course nobody who has no desire to feel a well developed kinematic and enjoy dialled geo would know. AKA Hubbards. let them buy open mould. who cares
Great bike and nice to see it in 4K quality here filmed with proper camera!
NEW SANTA FOCUS 2025 ?
Good public report Rob 👍
Looks almost the same as my Focus Sam2 6.9 2022😂
I’ve been away from bikes all together for the past 3 years and a lot has changed… except for pricing. £6,699 starting price is not entry level pricing, but Santa Cruz have never been an entry level brand; you want a Santa Cruz as opposed to needing it, so to speak. That aside, I’ve loved Santa Cruz for years - I like their attention to detail (especially with cable routing), their warranty is excellent, and they just have such nice clean lines and design. When I used to be a bicycle mechanic (for 22 years), I really enjoyed building them; they always went together so nicely and the guys at Jungle (who were their importer, but I don’t know who it is now) were great to deal with. All I need now, is that lottery win.
Anyway, your channel has blown up massively over the years to just under a million subs, Rob, and your videos are still as clear as they ever were, so I can see why your channel is so popular and has grown so much. Keep up the great work and all the best.
HECK YEAH, finally the Bosh downhill noise is gone. It's SO loud when riding on my Strive:ON. Eventhough you get used to it, not having that constant clonking is such a W.
This is also the biggest issue on my Focus Sam2 , the rattle drives me nuts, my next ebike will be a gen5 Bosch system
The only thing really wrong with this bike is that you’re gonna ask Santa Cruz money for the same bike you can buy for 25 to 30% cheaper from 12 other bike companies.
For this money you get the newest Nicolai with Pinion or DJI's Amflow...
same bike from other companies? since when has Santa Cruz ever been like all other bikes? Just because the Lower linkage rotates in a different direction and is longer? really? not even considering quality, lifetime bearing warranty, geometry etc...?
@@Mvees bearings are cheap. A lot of companies make really quality stuff not just Santa Cruz. I said there’s nothing wrong with the bike. It’s just 25 to 30% more money than a lot of bikes that do exactly the same thing.
It gets interesting when you compare the bike with the new Rise LT. The Santa, as a mullet setup with an air shock and carbon wheels, weighs over 1kg more compared to a full 29er bike with a coil shock and (slightly) even more battery capacity. Good job, Orbea!
Orbea = flimsy frames
Great point
The Rise does not remotely ride like a burly trail bike like this.
@@Mvees Really? Have you already had a chance to test the new Rise LT? Or the Vala? The geometry data is almost identical, so I’m really curious how you came to that conclusion.
Rise Lt M10 630 w. They don’t say anything about the weight. I think the rise with air shock 630 W must be over 20 maybe 21 Kg and that’s not far away from this proper Santa. I think the Frame of SC is thicker and more stable. the sc is better in rough terrain. Orbea more for sports. Both very good bikes. Not easy to make a decision…
Best review I've seen thus far
Your speculations of the screen are correct and someone on TH-cam has said what's coming and what will be displayed.
Excellent review Rob!
Nice looking bike. SC have done the same as Yeti because the motor wont allow them to improve the current suspension kinematics. It makes sense to me. Hopefully, it rides just as well as the VPP if not better.
I actually like this a lot, moved away from Santa Cruz when I wanted an e-bike. I would have bought this instead of my Unno Mith which to me is a spiritual successor to a what Santa Cruz could be doing to innovate with VPP.
Pinion Niɔolai that's the future 😊 looks like Rocky Mountain to me with display and those changes 🤟
Pinion is for sure… Nicolai not so much. Belt drive in Santa Cruz or Specialized 🎉
Good looking bike and the geo and spec looks great. Perhaps moving away from the VPP on their emtb's is a good idea for Santa Cruz and it looks like it makes sense from a design/performance perspective.
What did Brose know in 2018 that they all are trying to achieve now. The rattles in later bikes and thecoffee grinder sound of the pinion MGU would kill the joy of Emtb for me. I've updated my 2018 super silent, smooth and powerful 1.3 Brose Levo with a Rohloff manual change hub,170 mm Fox 38's 150mm cranks, 9piont8 steering head slacker kit + fox DPX2 shock.
The silence is golden and goodbye derailleurs for me. A brand new spare sealed, updated motor and two 500wh batteries are the go for me.Going backwards with updates gives me what I want until they can come up with something as silent , smooth and reliable. E=mtb²
Bosch Race beats it, I have a Crestline
No dout about this bike. That was an amazing.
I've been riding MTB for 10 years and before that road and raced road for 30. I'm 6'4", the first MTB to fit properly has been the Nomad 6 in XXL. It's superior in every way that matters to any bike I've had, (I've had many), it's in another league. Two things; stack and rear center. Rob should have the XXL for comparison, I've been following his reviews and builds for a while, he always wants be believe life is better on XL, when a proper size up is available, try it. DJI? We will see, how many will put down the hard earned when it's said and done, we will see how it goes over time. This bike won't break or creak, if it does it's taken care of in a week, it comes into your possession properly built. Bikes that compare are Crestline and the Slash+, if I were 6' I'd look at them, unfortunately it's a full size difference. The Nicolai MGU?, it's 60 lbs!, it's not a trail bike, at least they offer bikes for taller people, the one I would get still doesn't have the stack of the SC. The horse power wars are not going to making better bikes, if you need more range, that's a different bike. I look forward to Rob telling us the range of the Nicolai, and the DJI, I bet this bike comes close enough for most or us, I'm guessing the DJI won't be close in handling the rough and real of true single track.
Great video. I like santacruz. I had a few in the years gone by . the last one i owned was a 2020/21 tallboy. A lot of comments with regards to the suspension , other brands use vpp not just sc the biggest disappointment about this is the 600 battery, 10k for a ride that can only do 3hrs ? 1kg of a difference in weight if they had put an 800 battery in ? Seriously? It's a Great looking ride, but there is no chance iam buying this , there is better rides out there , lighter , faster with bigger batteries and the same new bosch motor in the frame. But each to their own.
Love my Bullit!
I like the look of it and you know it will ride great from Santa Cruz. Just need a 800wh 29er next......
not a santa cruz customer never had one it might not look stunning but it looks great to me, love the green and gold color it's trunnion which isn't soft on shocks but better than yoke according to the 50 videos I watched about the subject last week I didn't know what VPP was and wouldn't want it not a fan of the shock being that down and exposed
Super sweet Bike. I will definitely consider it for my next bike, although technology is evolving so fast. I hope they offer a build kit with the Zeb and Vivid Air. Also, I’ve seen that the Liverpool force on the maven’s is really high, so I wouldn’t be down with that. Bigger manufacturers really need to allow you to pick your parts. Otherwise you’re wasting a ton of time and money.
Emtb is very fast becoming a rich person's sport ,love my Giant Reign eb.
Indeed. I also love my Giant Reign E+ 1 PRO, only thing I'd like to is a bigger battery, 600/625 would be great instead of the 500 one. Although, I only once managed to discharge it to 0%.
All bikes can be expensive. The Specialized S-Works Epic World Cup LTD xc bike is £12.5k and doesn't have a motor. People don't have to buy the most expensive bike every time...
There are number of e-bikes that can be had for cheap. Decoy, Marin, etc. On the use market, you can get an e-Bike for really cheap
Can't wait for you to try the new rail, even if eye is santa cruz is very inviting.....
I can see the attraction of a quite set up but can easily handle the audio of my cyclone and CYC mid drives, no bell needed,, also the silent motors seem to be what people complain about, huge kw seem less of an issue
Magic Mary Trail Radials! Unobtainable elsewhere, but finally seen here. I’ve only been able to get the Albert’s.
Guy Kesteven has said the designer of current Santa Cruz bikes doesn't like VPP. So this could be an early indication of what the 2026 pedal bikes will look like. It'd be easy to develop a 120,140,160,180mm version of this suspension platform.
Nice! Looks like my rail.
Super good congratulations
The Santa Cruz version of the Propain Sresh CF 👍🏼
As that famous saying goes.. “it looks like a Rail!!”
Looks like they’ve raided the Rail spec sheet Rob. Although, using the 600 battery is a good move as it keeps the down tube and therefore reach at sensible proportions.
Superb quality and remarkably balanced, as usual. I ride an XL Bullit and I can have one of those at the same spec for 21.3kg…. And when I did a ride almost identical to the one you did at Dalby in the dry I got the same height and 46km, similar average pace and a shorter journey time (mix of trail, eco and boost) and that was the old 800 EP8, the new one has the 801. It’s battery is 630 Whr, so only a little but more. So, which would you choose…? The Bullit XL I ride with more rise on the bars doesn’t have any of the problems you described with the front end. Anyway, I’ll not be buying this, but the next Bullit and let’s just hope they let you take the battery out as they do now….
Very nice cycle
thanks for the edit. In essence, they cant use their signature "best in class" suspension due to seatpost and motor constrains. Looks so random to me now
About that. They couldn't get the anti rise and anti squat where they wanted it to be with their take of vpp and a bosch cx. A zf centrix probably would have allowed for that but isn't available yet and im not sure if i would want it over the new cx, the centrix is not as quiet and current reviews say that it has a rather punchy feel to it, not as easily controlled as the bosch, but things may change due to improvements in software.
Wow nice cycle
Which e bikes have longer rear centers that suit taller riders?
I always liked how Tuner Bikes looked!
But....
#1 - "They model the suspension to feel like SC"
So... we don't need VPP to have a really nice bike? Ahahah
Bosch is getting rousted by DJI... not even tear offs will clear the vision!
DJI introduced a revolution in eMTB.
You can have "POWA", and not weight a PIG.
Replacing my current emtb, I won't go old bikes!
Really nice looking bike , personally it needs at least a 720 watt hour battery, and I still think manufacturers haven’t learnt why they have been selling off bikes with lots of discounts, the thing is over priced
Sry Santa, but I am very happy now, to have bought a Heckler with EP801 last year. ^^ The Vala (good looking) looks like a complete random MTB without the VPP Design. Could be a Trek, TR, Focus, CUBE...
Yeah, who needs a SantaCruz with no VPP?
I would much prefer what you bought👍. Shimano motor I have I dont even have a slight desire to have anything else. I ride my GFs e bike with a bosche gen 4 and I dont feel it is any better what so ever.
yeah it looks like they bought the frame off some OEM manufacturer and slapped santa cruz on it
Yeah, I'm not paying Santa Cruz money for a generic 4 bar bike. Don't get me wrong, I'm VERY happy with my Cube Stereo Hybrid 160, and even happier that I could probably buy 2 of them for the price of a Santa Cruz...
VPP was/is just another four-bar design to circumnavigate the (now defunct) Specialized patent. It's neither better nor worse than other designs..
9:30 so after this 3 hour ride how many %/juice left in battery? Or it was dead?
It was between 0 and 10%, probably around 5-6%
People love complaining, Bosch managed to improve an already pretty good motor and making it even better and enjoyable. Also 85nm is more than enough for 99% of people. Also you can get Bosch cx at 3000€ vs DJI starting 7000€
es muy bueno mientras no lo mojes :) lo cual es ridículo para una MTB
Spot on!
True. Barely anyone is on Turbo mode the whole time and feels power starved. Why jumping in power then? And when people were asked what they appreciate the most / are annoyed the most by motors virtually nobody complained about power but noise, durability and smoothness of support. All of those things were addressed by Bosch and still complaints. In the EMTB podcast the guy from Crestline hinted that there is more juice in the motor than the 85Nm stated on paper right now. (btw: ich don’t drive a bike with a Bosch motor)
@@HFrizzler 100% spot on. If you want moar power get a Stark Varg or a moto. Power such as the dgi will only be good for fire road winching. Of very little value in real life technical single track riding...
No backward compatability and power not keeping up with competition, but now there's a plastic gear. 😂
great review, Rob. you mention at the end that you have a long torso and prefer geometry with higher rear center number... i am in the same boat.... in your opinion which bikes have long rear center geo? thanks!
Off the top of my head, Crestline and not that many more (many brands try to keep the rear ends as short as possible, which works for some of the frame sizes for sure but on XL and XXL, they’re normally disproportionately balanced to the rear). There’s one coming soon that really bucks this trend though, so not long for more options, and I think that more brands will be doing better proportionally longer rear centres in the future.
Lots of harsh comments for trying some new ideas.
you misspelled "desperately wanting to use a Bosch motor"
What’s new about a Horst link bike ? All the direct to consumer brands at half the price use this lol
what the fk is new about this ebike sir? let me answer for you... NOTHING! :D
@@323johnnybravo why buy a luxury German car then? it has 4 wheels and the same suspension as a Hyundai?
Should come with the kiox 300 display, wouldn't wanna miss the information and navigation while riding anymore. Taking out your smartphone the whole time is annoying. Do you remove the battery downwards (so the bike has to stand upside down or lay on the side)?
So basically a Pivot shuttle Am with a smaller battery?
@@St3v3-0 and no dw link.
You say you have seen the heat management chart. I have been wondering how the dji avinox motor does with heat management. Would love to see some graphs or info on both motors.
So does this motor use a magnet on the rotor now? That’s what it looks like because man my sensor is always saying it cannot connect at times.
One magnet at the valve stem is the default configuration for the new bsoch motors. There are big ugly ones available that are visible from outside and smaller ones that sit inside the rim. Swapping them may cause detection issues. The sensor is btw wireless
Nice review once again Rob looks like you rode barking dog, possibly dog leash? I must’ve just missed you guys. I was riding there on last Tuesday afternoon.
Does the chain looks a bit dirty or rusty? It stands out compared to the clean gears
What is the largest chain ring this bike will take. My Trek Rail will take a 38 without clearance issues. Less aggressive tires and larger chain ring will make bike perfect.
Sad day, to see Santa Cruz with 4-bar link! 😢
VPP is a four-bar variation ...
why? they also have single pivot bikes... why so hung up on marketing? its just engineering/kinematics.
and the VPP is a 4 bar linkage with very short links if you look closely.
@@Mvees exactly. Designed to work around Specialized's four-bar patent (now expired)
Bike looks sick. Smaller battery is dumb, only mx wheels are dumb and price is ridiculous.
Lots of things to like about this one specifically the new Bosch motor I believe is superior to Shimano.
The negatives is the small battery and the suspension design is still negotiable based on how it rides. I just don’t get how this new model differs from the heckler besides making the suspension worse
New SC... interesting, but not groundbreaking. What I want to know is, which bike to you prefer from your two recent builds, the Nicolai you bought yourself or the Amflow? When are the reviews coming Rob?
Looks like a Norco Fluid VLT LOL, not a Santa Cruz at all. The new high pivot Sight looks interesting if it rides well.
Hi rob just thinking I have a 750wh power tube is the new 800wh a compatible upgrade please 🙏🏻
Ofc not lol
Looks nice and just like an Orbea Wild, probably more expensive. That said if you're in Europe, it makes sense to get a bike made in Europe, if in America it might make sense to get a US made bike.
Isn’t this Less travel and lighter than the wild?
I always struggle to see if a painted part is forged or Cnc'd. I guess Rob has that eye.
Its anodised, so you should see milling marks. You can definitely see the stair stepping of the mill inside the pocket near the shock
hi Rob, So if its 250 w nominal for Epac legislation, does that mean that the motor has to drop down in wattage within a set period of time and if so how long is that time to meet Epac regulation?
The 250w is the average output within a time frame of 30 minutes, which should not be exceeded by these motors according to the law. But in reality most motors don't restrict the output noticeable, only if they overheat on a big climb, so it's more a theoretical law on paper, no one really cares
WITH THIS NEW BIKE I WOULD OF LIKE TO SEE HOW THE BATTERY IS INSTALLED PLEASE,
I am almost sure the new display could work with this.
What I am curious about is: does this pair to either a Garmin with ANT+ or an Apple Watch?
Reason: 600Wh battery with just a few bars is not enough. I don't see a percentage and I go crazy. I literally put on a Garmin when I am on my ebike just to see a percentage.
더욱 날씬한 산타크루즈 탐이납니다
I dont like the battery layout display how is shown on the frame, how hard is to show 10 lights of batt level just for the piece of mind
Good weight
amflow dji avinox or this one ???
Not sure why the fake secrecy around the top tube controller. Crestline has it published that a new controller is coming that will fit that space.
Classic brands often when they change their look have a backlash as the style is as important as the brand name. Look at history of coca cola
Will Bosch’s next gen 6 motor have matching bolt pattern and case shape? LOL
yes what a ripp off
Oh god no. Why would you then have to upgrade an entire bike? 🤷
as if anyone ever has changed the motor for a new generation on its bike, you trolls. 😂
It has the same bolt pattern their SX motor has
Santa Cruz have any company in Europe that deals with warranties?
Is Gen5 waterproof ??
How difficult is it to put a Garmin in the top tube of a bike? Surely can’t be that hard
Rail+ vibes
is battery removable?
No, only by unscrewing the motor. The inbuilt battery helps santa cruz to keep down the overall weight (there's also an exploded drawing on their website where you can see, that there is no opening)
I have seen the new display on a Ghost E-Riot cf advanced
That’s not it
I say Bosch on the display, and have emtb mode on it
The Trek rail is such a good bike, looks like Santa Cruz just stuck their name over the top
Except the Trek Rail is single pivot, linkage actuated and not true 4 bar, not horst link.
I prefer the look of heckler is because you can hardly tell it's an ebike.
That’s a ‘98 Turner with a 2025 motor.
Where is the VPP?
New Bullit? Please?
The new CX is overall better than DJI, keep in mind the DJI starts at 7000€ and has zero Dealers/longevity data. People love complaining, Bosch managed to improve an already pretty good motor and making it even better and enjoyable. Also 85nm is more than enough for 99% of people. Also you can get Bosch cx at 3000€ vs DJI starting 7000€
Frame only option please Santacruz!
I know for what is the black plate under a Bosch system controller, for a DJI display ;)
I forecast a big drop in sales soon with this little increases. Why would i spend another 10k to not even loose significant weight . Ebikes had already enough power
And why would you get this other than the motor? SC without VPP doesn't seem worth the money.
Bhai price mtb
I actually love it but the builds/costs are outrageous for the current market. I got an eagle powertrain Ekano2 CF with GX AXS drive, ultimate suspension, code RSC's and electronic dropper for $7400 and that same money would get me an NX build Vala with base suspension and DB8 brakes. Too many options now a days to be asking this kind of money for no value besides the name.
Just cant see the point of buying anything other than the amflow at the moment if you're going to spend this much
Nearly everyone wants value for money, but some brands with their view of bikes as "luxury items" are still there, waiting for big money, until they will start begging for our money or bankrupt.
Completely agree, AMFLOW just set the benchmark, everything else just looks meh!
@@TCK71 Still perfectly reasonable to buy a cheaper one from a different brand .. I'd go Cube, Canyon or specifically the newest Orbea rise but as soon as you pay out amflow money theres just no point getting anything else..
You’ll never see that DJI bike come to the US.
@@skellener I'm in the UK so not fussed
Germany is on the phone, they want their 2022 Cube Stereo 160 back 🤣
Looks like ther Pivot Shuttle AM, Why would i buy this?
That chain was a bit rusty :D
Taking 3 years for other ebike motors to aspire/achieve the feel and touch of TQ motors..
Nice video….that’s all…
Where are you from
Ram Ram sa
looks like an orbea wild clone, im sure it rides nice...
Everything is sweet, price though..
How much price 😢
It's on the santa Cruz website
Santa Cruz must be out of their mind with price tag.
They have always been