Hey Sam great video as always, just a observation they are offering in the UK a Short travel version of the Wild at 150mm both ends, what an exciting time in the ebike sector, Santa Cruz Vala for me hands down. :)
Out of this list I think the Orbea Wild is the pick of the bunch. 170 back and front the bike will literally do it all. Or is the rumoured next gen Levo going to up the game.
Canyon has been having some amazing sales and have a great value as a DTC. I waited 3 years before I had was able to get my EBike and love it. My wife even got one 2 months after me with how much fun I was having. I got the Strive:ON and she got the Spectral:ON
Crestline for me if were to pic one! As long time SC analog bike owner, the Vala has my interest especially without the VPP that I think overloads the rear suspension/pivots. They pedal great of course, but VPP platform not ideal for ebikes I think. Lots of 160/150 bikes here, which is ok. My Levo3 was great 160/150 being very versatile for most all trails. Since going 170/160 it is even a bit more versatile on the DH specific terrain without being overkill on tamer XC style trails. So, I would definitely forgo another 160/150 ebike myself with at least 170 rear. New Bosch motor looks good, I had nothing but issues with my CX4 on Rail (on my 4th drive unit within 2 years) and happy to see Trek ditching the shoddy RIB battery design that created too much slop in system and power shorts when bike pushed hard
agreed . it's very difficult to beat cube for quality and price . i have an older model with the 75 Nm cx motor and it's still a fav of mine . i bought in the winter when it was on sale . there are still lots of really good bikes out there if you don't care about all the latest bling .
The Rail should've stayed 29, I've had mullets in the past there ok but prefer 29 setup, I don't see any real steps forward with the gen 5 vs 4, il wait for a decent priced mgu in a few yrs.
@johnnyweekend It's because he's a casual and doesn't know that Mullet has been a registered Trademark since 2018. Companies and media personnel who respect the trademark call it MX, Frankenbike, or 79er. Funny, bet this guy doesn't even know we exist, albeit, only follows big box brands and Pinkbike.
@vaughanboyce3702 You've had mixed wheel bikes in the past and they all had the incorrect geometry. They simply throw a different wheel on and it feels like crap. There's a fine line on where geometry for a mixed wheel platform works, and copying modern symmetrical wheel geometry is not it. Sorry and we understand. They tried to sell you the cool-aid, you bought it and it tasted like crap.
👍Nice that the SANTA CRUZE VALA came to the best battery sulotion for a full power Emtb, 600Wh + 250Wh range extender is a Sweet spot😉. The motor could more than 100 grams be lighter😊
I'll stick with my Trek Fuel EXe alloy i got on sale. I love that bike: I'm not interested in turboing up a hill as i like chill rides, but it has enough travel and agility for me to rally hard when i feel like it. Not really interested in expensive bikes anymore. I'm more intrigued about the Yamaha Moro since it's on sale for sub $3k. For a 85nm full power, XT drivetrain, and Magura MT5 at that price point, that's a steal.
i'm going to predict that the Nm wars may come to an end in the next couple of years , UNLESS there is a huge improvement in battery efficiency and weight , which isn't likely. when i say "huge , i mean double the power at half the weight ) . I believe riders in Europe that are restricted to a top speed of 25kph will find that bikes hovering around 100 nm will be sufficient for the majority of people . i'm pretty old (79.5 😂) . My bike has 112 Nm with a 650 watt battery . this combination even with my weak legs and extreme pain in the shoulders will get me up any hill with very little effort , so an approx. 100 nm motor for fit riders will be way more than enough. anything over that is more psychological when it comes to buying a new bike . The current bosch at 85 Nm is strong enough , but they will get swept up in the Specs , weight , and Nm wars because they know how susceptible the public is to these things . After two or three years all of this MAY calm down and riders will get back to just riding and not comparing 'Size'. IMO
Thanks for this video. It's going to get harder and harder to make a choice! You'll have to update the website 😉. Have you heard anything about the Bosch SX motor? Is it going to be improved too? If not, will the eMTB models with this motor have the new higher density batteries?
The crestline is exactly what i would make in both geo and spec, but way over the price id be comfortable chucking off the sode of a hill! Orbea had a huge miss not speccing the 800Wh, i had my credit card inhabd while reading the announcement. Somehow Cube have come out as one of the best builds 170/170 with great spec in the 5-7k range.
The Orbea Wild is the one I'd go for! But, do I wait for the Race Motor?? Sam, you said at the end in the rumours section that you expect the std CX to increase torque for the Gen 5 - I assume just a software upgrade?
@@SamsBikes thanks! I want that new Wild now so it'll be a test of resilience if I can wait for the race motor 😂. Looking forward to when you test the new Wild.
Why are there no starter bike reviews for normal people who want to get started and haven’t ridden for years but also want to start some trail exploring
I am Waiting for the "new" Bosch XS motor, wher YOU can adjust the peek power and the cadence through the app or on the display. That's gone wake me up out of my winter sleep😂
Love to change setting on overrun as well. I like my Rocky with minimal overrun for the more natural feel, but would like to switch it on for climbing the rock gardens!
Troydon said in a recent podcast the motor software will get an update next year and will have an increased power. Somewhere along the lines of the DJI.
If somebody is reading this message in Santa Cruz Factory, please send a Vala to Sam, I‘m looking forward to watch a good and honest review of that bike! 😅
@@SamsBikes They offer the new 600. Not the 800 though, apparently the 800 is wider and they would of had to change the downtube. Still have the 750 too.
For the 750 W battery, yes, but the 600 W battery is of the new type (with 21700 cells). Anyway the 600W is better for enduro handling and one can get the extender if needed.
As a owner of Rail gen4, I am not very exiting about this new motor. Not much diference on paper, and I am very satisfied with actual bike/motor. Most exiting news from Bosch for me is new purion 400 display, it looks very good, it it fit with gen4 motor I will propably buy one. From this list, most beautiful bike for me is crestline, very nice bike, second is Vala and third is Rail :-)
The mountain bike industry has went crazy with these high priced bikes and now it’s become a thing where they need to build a bike around the motor instead of a better quality frame
Im currently looking to buy my first ebike. Currently have a 2020 giant trance 3 29er. Iv got a budget of aroud £5000. But struggling with picking a favourite. I ride a bit of everything, bike park, trail, and in my local woods. Also just normal Cycle path with my girlfriend. Any help would be appreciated. Looking at amflow, specialized, marin, haibike
Hola, el problema no es el precio que ponen las marcas, es mas bien el IVA, por ejemplo, a misma bici en España (21%) cuesta 2000€ mas que en Portugal (6%)
Out of those bikes. The Haibike, absolutely, no contest for me. Would I actually buy any of those bikes. No. Plenty satisfied with my gen 4 Bulls. Will my next bike be gen 5 powered. No. Next is Bafang. Why. Long-term ownership, parts, spares, and an entire community of support. A bike/motor system that can actually be repaired throughout this "new era." With DJI, Pinion, ZF, now Bosch, all releasing new motors, ill wait and see who eats who. If DJI is offered globally, if they also offer the same level of serviceability as theirs drones. That will decide who even stays relevant in the market entirely.
The 800wh battery has a larger perimeter and does not fit the frame, the 750wh has around the same as the 600wh, it's just a bit longer. Some brands have decided to go with the 750wh as second battery option, at least, when it's an inbuilt battery, to keep the downtube as thin as possible. When the battery is removable, as on the new focus jam², they will use the 800wh battery, because it can protrude a bit and you just need to use another battery cover for it
![ค้าง (STILL) - GEMINI [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ftxx3hk5vkU/mqdefault.jpg)
![เป็นไปได้ไหม - WanMai [Performance Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Eh5hItD4Mr0/mqdefault.jpg)
Riders what are we thinking of the New 9 Ebikes released this week with the new Bosch Gen 5?
thinking you forgot Cube, new design for 2025 and blows the rest out the water with price......
I’ve got the new cube 25 ht, 800w battery, gen 5 motor, all I can say is it’s a beast of a bike totally loving it!
Hey Sam great video as always, just a observation they are offering in the UK a Short travel version of the Wild at 150mm both ends, what an exciting time in the ebike sector, Santa Cruz Vala for me hands down. :)
That’s interesting 🤨 I didn’t need that in the press release! Yep the Santa Cruz is very cool
I want 9 new e-bikes with the DJI motor!!!
Haha maybe next year
Hello Sam, Long time and truly enjoyed the video. Your You Tube channel rocks!
😊Crestline or Orbea for me. Ive been on the last gen Norco Range vlt and it would be hard to go down in travel
I hear you! All 3 are cracking bikes
I’d stick with my crestlines!! Awesome bikes and great customer support!! Second choice would be the SC 🤘🏻
Yep so I’ve heard
LOVE THE RUMORS SECTION :D
Haha 🤣 I’m glad I’ll keep them coming
Out of this list I think the Orbea Wild is the pick of the bunch. 170 back and front the bike will literally do it all. Or is the rumoured next gen Levo going to up the game.
I'm exhausted from all the overpriced mountain bikes. The market definitely needs a correction.
I think we just had that no!
Canyon has been having some amazing sales and have a great value as a DTC. I waited 3 years before I had was able to get my EBike and love it. My wife even got one 2 months after me with how much fun I was having. I got the Strive:ON and she got the Spectral:ON
Check out used prices. At least 50% discount. Tells you how much margin there is in these bikes.
there has been huge sales.
Dji will make everyone back to their study room . Can get a great specs bike for 4500 euros now
Crestline for me if were to pic one! As long time SC analog bike owner, the Vala has my interest especially without the VPP that I think overloads the rear suspension/pivots. They pedal great of course, but VPP platform not ideal for ebikes I think. Lots of 160/150 bikes here, which is ok. My Levo3 was great 160/150 being very versatile for most all trails. Since going 170/160 it is even a bit more versatile on the DH specific terrain without being overkill on tamer XC style trails. So, I would definitely forgo another 160/150 ebike myself with at least 170 rear.
New Bosch motor looks good, I had nothing but issues with my CX4 on Rail (on my 4th drive unit within 2 years) and happy to see Trek ditching the shoddy RIB battery design that created too much slop in system and power shorts when bike pushed hard
I take a look at the new CUBE`s, yesterday.
Nice Bikes- for less Money.
I’ll have a lock
agreed . it's very difficult to beat cube for quality and price . i have an older model with the 75 Nm cx motor and it's still a fav of mine . i bought in the winter when it was on sale . there are still lots of really good bikes out there if you don't care about all the latest bling .
The Rail should've stayed 29, I've had mullets in the past there ok but prefer 29 setup, I don't see any real steps forward with the gen 5 vs 4, il wait for a decent priced mgu in a few yrs.
Fair point for me and my style I feel the trek is better as a mullet
Why do you say Mullet wheels instead of mixed wheels? @@SamsBikes
@johnnyweekend It's because he's a casual and doesn't know that Mullet has been a registered Trademark since 2018. Companies and media personnel who respect the trademark call it MX, Frankenbike, or 79er. Funny, bet this guy doesn't even know we exist, albeit, only follows big box brands and Pinkbike.
@vaughanboyce3702 You've had mixed wheel bikes in the past and they all had the incorrect geometry. They simply throw a different wheel on and it feels like crap. There's a fine line on where geometry for a mixed wheel platform works, and copying modern symmetrical wheel geometry is not it. Sorry and we understand. They tried to sell you the cool-aid, you bought it and it tasted like crap.
👍Nice that the SANTA CRUZE VALA came to the best battery sulotion for a full power Emtb, 600Wh + 250Wh range extender is a Sweet spot😉.
The motor could more than 100 grams be lighter😊
I agree this is the best of both worlds
Ummm 🤔 that Norco looks awesome
Totally bro 😎
I'll stick with my Trek Fuel EXe alloy i got on sale. I love that bike: I'm not interested in turboing up a hill as i like chill rides, but it has enough travel and agility for me to rally hard when i feel like it. Not really interested in expensive bikes anymore. I'm more intrigued about the Yamaha Moro since it's on sale for sub $3k. For a 85nm full power, XT drivetrain, and Magura MT5 at that price point, that's a steal.
Good call
Wild Orbea. It Was already a unreal Ebike.
i'm going to predict that the Nm wars may come to an end in the next couple of years , UNLESS there is a huge improvement in battery efficiency and weight , which isn't likely.
when i say "huge , i mean double the power at half the weight ) .
I believe riders in Europe that are restricted to a top speed of 25kph will find that bikes hovering around 100 nm will be sufficient for the majority of people .
i'm pretty old (79.5 😂) .
My bike has 112 Nm with a 650 watt battery . this combination even with my weak legs and extreme pain in the shoulders will get me up any hill with very little effort , so an approx. 100 nm motor for fit riders will be way more than enough. anything over that is more psychological when it comes to buying a new bike .
The current bosch at 85 Nm is strong enough , but they will get swept up in the Specs , weight , and Nm wars because they know how susceptible the public is to these things .
After two or three years all of this MAY calm down and riders will get back to just riding and not comparing 'Size'. IMO
The Orbea Wild would be my top pick!
Thanks for this video. It's going to get harder and harder to make a choice! You'll have to update the website 😉.
Have you heard anything about the Bosch SX motor? Is it going to be improved too? If not, will the eMTB models with this motor have the new higher density batteries?
Not a problem sir! I haven’t heard anything on the SX I feel it’s to new
@@SamsBikes if only we could use the new 600w battery with the SX...
The crestline is exactly what i would make in both geo and spec, but way over the price id be comfortable chucking off the sode of a hill! Orbea had a huge miss not speccing the 800Wh, i had my credit card inhabd while reading the announcement. Somehow Cube have come out as one of the best builds 170/170 with great spec in the 5-7k range.
new Orbea Wild w 20kg=Dream Bike
Yep that would be cool
The Orbea Wild is the one I'd go for! But, do I wait for the Race Motor?? Sam, you said at the end in the rumours section that you expect the std CX to increase torque for the Gen 5 - I assume just a software upgrade?
Mate I’ve only heard this rumor but it does make sense if it’s true
@@SamsBikes thanks! I want that new Wild now so it'll be a test of resilience if I can wait for the race motor 😂. Looking forward to when you test the new Wild.
New top tube display shown on the Ghost... Nice
No,on the Ghost is kiox 300 integrated
👍With the rumours at the end, I understand why the weight of the new Bosch Gen 5 is what it is😅
Haha 🤣 good call
Hi Sam...
I noticed that the Ghost E-Riot runs the Bosch System, with the New display on the Top tube. Do you have anymore information on that?
Now once the CX gen 5 is out would you still recommend a EP801 ebike at a discounted price?
Yes! The EP801 is a great motor now
Why are there no starter bike reviews for normal people who want to get started and haven’t ridden for years but also want to start some trail exploring
That’s a great idea I’ll try and put something together
Love my Topeak tools!
The Orbea would be my pick
Good call
I am Waiting for the "new" Bosch XS motor, wher YOU can adjust the peek power and the cadence through the app or on the display.
That's gone wake me up out of my winter sleep😂
That sounds very cool
Love to change setting on overrun as well. I like my Rocky with minimal overrun for the more natural feel, but would like to switch it on for climbing the rock gardens!
@@davidross6919
👍True, you want to buy a bike that you can set up for the right purpose😄
Santa Cruz looks like a Trek Rail without VPP, but it worths like an Santa Cruz with VPP. what you do think about Bosch Gen 5 vs Specialized's Brose?
Troydon said in a recent podcast the motor software will get an update next year and will have an increased power. Somewhere along the lines of the DJI.
Super ❤
Thanks 🔥
If somebody is reading this message in Santa Cruz Factory, please send a Vala to Sam, I‘m looking forward to watch a good and honest review of that bike! 😅
Haha thanks mate
What about the Pivot offerings?
The Wild doesn't appear to have gone with the newer and lighter batteries. What's up with that?
Yep that’s very strange
@@SamsBikes They offer the new 600. Not the 800 though, apparently the 800 is wider and they would of had to change the downtube. Still have the 750 too.
New orbea wild MX for me plz 🎉 But are orbea sticking with old bosch batteries?
For the 750 W battery, yes, but the 600 W battery is of the new type (with 21700 cells). Anyway the 600W is better for enduro handling and one can get the extender if needed.
Does this mean the SX and gen 5 CX motors are cross compatible into the same frame ?
I've heard it is possible, but up to the bike manufacturer's to develop it. Santa Cruz understand what it will take, evidently.
@@davidross6919 So the bolt geometry is the same between the two?
@@velomech8139 Yes.
Santa Cruz Vala,🤘
Yep it’s a beast
As a owner of Rail gen4, I am not very exiting about this new motor. Not much diference on paper, and I am very satisfied with actual bike/motor. Most exiting news from Bosch for me is new purion 400 display, it looks very good, it it fit with gen4 motor I will propably buy one. From this list, most beautiful bike for me is crestline, very nice bike, second is Vala and third is Rail :-)
Yep good call the Cestline is a looker
decisions! wait for the new Amflow? Buy the old Bosch motor bikes on sale? Or get a new E Bosch bike with new Bosch motor?
Oh mate that’s such a hard one!
Thanks for the reviews Sam! Yes will be my first E bike 😊
If I were in a market with the Anflow, I’d get it if I didn’t need burlier components. I don’t trust a 36 like that so it’d be Bosch for me.
Same problem I`m having - but uh, I'm going to the Orbea site right now, I`ll let you know in a minute.
yep, there`s a dream bike on that site, Norco site too - way too expensive though...
The mountain bike industry has went crazy with these high priced bikes and now it’s become a thing where they need to build a bike around the motor instead of a better quality frame
7:49 - Is this the new display?
No, it's the kiox300
Sam i'm assuming ZF never sent you a bike ?
Pity , i really value your opinion on new bikes .
Hey mate I think it’s happening still but not sure
great . i hope they don't behave like they did when partnered with sachs . The ad dept for nox and BMZ was a disaster .
Santa Cruz starting at 8k. price? Crazy expensive! For a little extra you can get Pinion MGU emtb!
Go ride a Pinion and let me know. It’s ok but I don’t think it’s there yet!
Is gen5 using the same charger / charging port as gen4? I noticed that nobody talks about that, everybody is avoiding this topic :)
It seems like same charging port and charger
@@SamsBikes that is great news!
I bought a 2023 Husqvarna FE350S with 200 miles on it for $7800 instead. Just going to crank on my MTB and hit moto trails until prices come to earth.
Im currently looking to buy my first ebike. Currently have a 2020 giant trance 3 29er.
Iv got a budget of aroud £5000. But struggling with picking a favourite.
I ride a bit of everything, bike park, trail, and in my local woods. Also just normal Cycle path with my girlfriend.
Any help would be appreciated.
Looking at amflow, specialized, marin, haibike
You forgot Mondraker!
Whats the new Mondraker
Hola, el problema no es el precio que ponen las marcas, es mas bien el IVA, por ejemplo, a misma bici en España (21%) cuesta 2000€ mas que en Portugal (6%)
Which one are you buying Sam? 🤙
Out of those bikes. The Haibike, absolutely, no contest for me. Would I actually buy any of those bikes. No. Plenty satisfied with my gen 4 Bulls. Will my next bike be gen 5 powered. No. Next is Bafang. Why. Long-term ownership, parts, spares, and an entire community of support. A bike/motor system that can actually be repaired throughout this "new era."
With DJI, Pinion, ZF, now Bosch, all releasing new motors, ill wait and see who eats who. If DJI is offered globally, if they also offer the same level of serviceability as theirs drones. That will decide who even stays relevant in the market entirely.
Id be surprised if anyone needed more power than gen 4
Too expensive… what’s the point🙃
3:31 Shure? Not 800Wh!?
Im pretty sure its 750 unless their press release was wrong
Only 600 and 800 have the new Design!
The 800wh battery has a larger perimeter and does not fit the frame, the 750wh has around the same as the 600wh, it's just a bit longer. Some brands have decided to go with the 750wh as second battery option, at least, when it's an inbuilt battery, to keep the downtube as thin as possible. When the battery is removable, as on the new focus jam², they will use the 800wh battery, because it can protrude a bit and you just need to use another battery cover for it
@@e_mtb Thank‘s!
👌
@@e_mtbThe problem is that the 750w battery is much heavier than the new 800w
Nothing on the Trek use site about this new bike. Big fail in marketing!
I know it’s terrible I could find anything either
Crestline looks more Santa Cruz than Santa Cruz :-D
M1
It’s sweet
Actually they're all quite expensive
Santa Cruz is nice but expensive
Not interested in any Frankenstein 😜. But then again its jut me 😇.
Each to there own
@@SamsBikes true.
White Angela Moore Kevin Walker Edward
The prices are ridiculous
dw-link
On the Ghost ? Cool I didn’t know they licensed it
Nine overpriced not worth buying
Just by a sur ron or talaria and ride mtb trails
Yep that’s a no from me