Anssi - Unfair Advantage is a reference to the Book written by Mark Donohue. It refers to the advantage some teams have when they search and exploit the possibilities for the car while still in the rules. It's not truly unfair, just seems so. BTW - it's a great book, check it out.
True, but this is the case today as well. The GTO class, in which Audi 90 GTO competed in, is today the GT1 class from ALMS. In GT1 only the engine block is kept. Transmission, most of the chassis and the aero package are completely different from stock.
f1 bmw's of the 1980's had 1000bhp++ from 1.3litre 4 cylinder based on production block pretty much.......the 80's was a great time for technology in all levels of racing.....le mans, f1, rallying, touring cars......too many rules now me thinks....good vid....audi's looked cool
Audi have a history of changing the rules and dominating sport events.... Quattro + TDI technology spring to mind immediately but as this video proves Audi again :)
huckebeinFW - you answered your won question. Audi made such a powerful engine (which also definitely deserves kudos) because Quattro AWD has a weight penalty. Both go hand in hand. There is no point in having all that power if you can't keep the car on the road. As the drivers said - the more the track deteriorates (which undoubtedly it will) Quattro always provides the traction advantage. Either way you spin - the powerful engine or the Quattro - Audi got itself banned.
Quattro for the win. The fact that no series allows awd anymore does seem to confirm that it's an "unfair advantage." Its a shame that there are no 'open' classes; car type, basic safety and a power/weight ratio should be the only regulations. Let the engineers go from there.
I love Muscle Cars. I love their sound, I love their design. Some time i will get one. BUT: German drivers are better schooled in driving and German Cars where better, are better and will allways be better than all others in the world.
I see a lot of good comments below and some negative. I checked the records and Audi did not race after the 89 season. Were there rule changes? In addition, the 90 did not win the GTO class. They failed to enter enough races and had some DNF's that took them out of the points race at the end. If their point was to show off their technology and I am sure it was, they succeeded. Anyone notice that Mazda was one of the most successful in the IMSA series?
@DerFahrer5000 You saw Alesi in an F40?! Lucky bastard, I'd have paid good money to see him racing Ferrari's most beautiful car. I have seen him driving in a European sports car race and he was just as quick as in F1.
@McLarenMercedes and that´s a reason why american car brands are not very established in europe. but i also have to say the european standards and the usa standards are very different
@LykosLykos If 4wd it's such a stunning vantage, all sports car (from touring to super-touring and Gt) should use it, it would also give an hand to 4wd system development for normal cars (you know, racing tech it's often a referring point to those used after some years in production cars) giving us better cars and faster races to watch...
It's not unusual to see this kind of decision: when a car uses a new feature the others should study it, copy and use it too (that's the essence of motor-racing, always improving) but usually the fast way to match the performances of the cars in the champ (ban the new tech) it's preferred because it's less expensive.
@WakAtak914, Quattro was not a significant advantage in IMSA, as it is not an advantage in road racing in general. The losses in power due to AWD config, the additional weight do not make up for the gains in traction. Indeed, the real 'unfair advantage' was the turbo. By the end of the 80s all IMSAcars were turbo, because the regulations favored them. There was a 15 to 20% weight penalty for the turbo cars, but they were having at 50% more power, thus the edge in racing.
@UndeadTom1 Detroit survived for so long solely because they made all their money from trucks, which still is the most sold type of vehicle in the USA. For over a decade the Ford F-150 pick-up truck was the biggest seller of all cars sold. Since gasoline (petrol) is insanely cheap in the USA and the government insisted on living in a world where there are limitless of resources (or cheap imported oil from other countries, i.e Middle East) there was no need to design anything else but trucks.
Audi don't change the rules... the rules change after Audi make a mockery of the regulations and completely destroy the competition. Like you say the regulations are getting stricter and stricter but there is always room for improvement.
I think clarkson has competition on what the best looking car ever built is.He should put this on top gear and get the stig to do a lap time and see whats what.
What they mean by unfair advantage is that the audi's are 4 wheel drive while the other cars are rear wheel drive.The audi's would have twice the grip even with thinner tyres on them.Well at least thats what i think he means lol.
First off, I grew after IMSA's glory days, in fact this video is probably the most exposure to the series I've had. So I have no real knowledge of IMSA and its regulations. I agree that in perfect conditions quattro gives no real advantage, but as soon as it starts to rain a bit, or whenever a layer of dust or debris or tire scrub appears on the track(which is very often), the benefits of quattro are unbeatable. If they aren't then why would so many series today disallow all wheel drive?
I meant in PERFECT conditions-- In a world where tires don't degrade and the road stays clean throughout the race, etc. Yes AWD has at least some advantage in the real world no matter what the conditions.
@AnssiMarkkanen "Unfair" has a different meaning in the USA. Unfair = Outsmart So since they couldn't beat the smart Audi guys, they had to change the rules to "remove" them from the "competition" again.
as always,innovation and engineering epertise rise to the challenges,and the competition protest "unfair" how often has that happened?? ross braun did it with braun racing,some of the technical aspects of his car were like....wow,and then the naysayers got involved....it goes on.
This makes me sad. Because I don't see any Audi racing at the race tracks with their AWD system "Quattro". I see BMW(M3/3series), Posche(Cayman/Boxster/911), Chevy(corvettes), Ford(Mustang/Focus RS) and lots of Mazda(Miata) cars.
You are incorrect. Listen to the last 2 minutes and it explains that even in dry conditions - awd CAN be an advantage. Of course - engine, suspension, balance and driver also play a part. If you configure it correctly - the awd certainly can be an advantage in the dry...
Nonsense, without turbo the engine would have produced around 200 HP. That's very little compared to the actual output of the turbo Audi 90 GTO which was over 700 HP. The actual 'unfair advantage' of this car was the turbo, which at that point was not correctly regulated (no boost limit - this Audi had 3-4 atm boost!!). It is also important to mention that this Audi did not win the IMSA championship (GTO class) - this film seems to imply the opposite.
so because other makers don't want to develop all wheel drive cars, the better engineered car is banded. this action has led to a lesser quality of motor vehicle released to the market in usa and aust. just to name a few.
Thanks for uploading these 3 videos. They're absolutely amazing and very interesting!
Quattro was one of the best inventions even made..
It's more of a commercial but a damn good one and more informative than most documentarys.
What a badge of honor. If someone declares your engineering an unfair advantage that no other manufacturer can match you're doing something right!
x2, I watch these videos over and over. I love my quattro!
I LOVE the way it pulls the front wheels off the ground @4:00💕❤️💕
What an awesomely aggressive looking car.
The drivers weren't holding back either - they were putting the boot in.
Hot car.
man, that probily the only documentery that i watched all way through and found it interesting, ive always liked quatrros, but now, even more!
Trust me I agree with you. The hell with sportscenter from March to November was seeing great racing.
Those slow-mo shots are excellent.
I really missed the shot of Stuckie wheelying over the hump at Lime Rock! EPIC
so awesome, i wish i could get my hands on some videos of all the races that season.
The AUDI 90 IMSA is one the meanest looking and sounding competition cars of all time!
I've been looking for this video for ages! Thank you so much for the upload!
that audi is soooooooo sick looking, damn!
Yes in Ingolstadt/Germany in the Audi Museum and once a year they make a Show on the Parking Lot with it
awesome
Anssi - Unfair Advantage is a reference to the Book written by Mark Donohue. It refers to the advantage some teams have when they search and exploit the possibilities for the car while still in the rules. It's not truly unfair, just seems so.
BTW - it's a great book, check it out.
True, but this is the case today as well. The GTO class, in which Audi 90 GTO competed in, is today the GT1 class from ALMS. In GT1 only the engine block is kept. Transmission, most of the chassis and the aero package are completely different from stock.
These were the best back then :).
Nothing beats the audi quattro!
IMSA GTO was a series that ran with the GTPs.
GTO cars were Grand Touring type cars with an engine of 2.5 L displacement or more.
those wheelies are awesome!
wow the thundercats logo in the car while racing omfg!
Nice, I wish I could find a good quality copy, but it was probably from VHS...
It's better than christmas new year and birfday!
Hans Stuck is a legend.
7:27 lol some kind a street race.. audi just awesome..5+
i know, i was glued!
at the end up to over 700 bhp from a 2.2l engine - just amazing...
f1 bmw's of the 1980's had 1000bhp++ from 1.3litre 4 cylinder based on production block pretty much.......the 80's was a great time for technology in all levels of racing.....le mans, f1, rallying, touring cars......too many rules now me thinks....good vid....audi's looked cool
one decade, and no one of the opponents managed to envelope their own all wheel drive
"space age telemetry system" ahah hilarious
Audi have a history of changing the rules and dominating sport events.... Quattro + TDI technology spring to mind immediately but as this video proves Audi again :)
6:35...AWSOME!!!
to this day i am still saying wow.....
audi still dominates all racing
lol at "he has more flies on the doors than on the windscreen"
man i wish i had that audi today!
I love quattro! go AUDI!
ya me too! amazing cars
Hahaaaaaa :-D Stuck ist einfach der beste!!!!
"You have to have it in the Popo as we say" :-D :-D :-D
Hilarious!
huckebeinFW - you answered your won question. Audi made such a powerful engine (which also definitely deserves kudos) because Quattro AWD has a weight penalty. Both go hand in hand. There is no point in having all that power if you can't keep the car on the road. As the drivers said - the more the track deteriorates (which undoubtedly it will) Quattro always provides the traction advantage. Either way you spin - the powerful engine or the Quattro - Audi got itself banned.
thank u so much for posting this, it is fucking awesome
Quattro for the win. The fact that no series allows awd anymore does seem to confirm that it's an "unfair advantage." Its a shame that there are no 'open' classes; car type, basic safety and a power/weight ratio should be the only regulations. Let the engineers go from there.
i love his english!
We have too much Power for our gearbox and he smile;-)
hans j stuck is a badass
Space Age Telemetry! W00t!
this is a legend
great cars need great cars to exploit them fully!!!
I love Muscle Cars. I love their sound, I love their design. Some time i will get one. BUT:
German drivers are better schooled in driving and German Cars where better, are better and will allways be better than all others in the world.
yeah cool video
I see a lot of good comments below and some negative. I checked the records and Audi did not race after the 89 season. Were there rule changes? In addition, the 90 did not win the GTO class. They failed to enter enough races and had some DNF's that took them out of the points race at the end. If their point was to show off their technology and I am sure it was, they succeeded. Anyone notice that Mazda was one of the most successful in the IMSA series?
@DerFahrer5000 You saw Alesi in an F40?! Lucky bastard, I'd have paid good money to see him racing Ferrari's most beautiful car. I have seen him driving in a European sports car race and he was just as quick as in F1.
same here with a lot of incar footage!
Thanks. 👍
Play the song "Ritual - Take it Easy" while watching this video with both volumes up...
This guy says "Jesus Christ" too much lol
German engeneering at it's best in the 80's
@McLarenMercedes and that´s a reason why american car brands are not very established in europe. but i also have to say the european standards and the usa standards are very different
@LykosLykos
If 4wd it's such a stunning vantage, all sports car (from touring to super-touring and Gt) should use it, it would also give an hand to 4wd system development for normal cars (you know, racing tech it's often a referring point to those used after some years in production cars) giving us better cars and faster races to watch...
It's not unusual to see this kind of decision: when a car uses a new feature the others should study it, copy and use it too (that's the essence of motor-racing, always improving) but usually the fast way to match the performances of the cars in the champ (ban the new tech) it's preferred because it's less expensive.
@WakAtak914,
Quattro was not a significant advantage in IMSA, as it is not an advantage in road racing in general. The losses in power due to AWD config, the additional weight do not make up for the gains in traction.
Indeed, the real 'unfair advantage' was the turbo. By the end of the 80s all IMSAcars were turbo, because the regulations favored them. There was a 15 to 20% weight penalty for the turbo cars, but they were having at 50% more power, thus the edge in racing.
i love it to be a german,
NO SPEEDLIMIT,
NICE CARS and
Nice GIRLS! xD
@UndeadTom1
Detroit survived for so long solely because they made all their money from trucks, which still is the most sold type of vehicle in the USA. For over a decade the Ford F-150 pick-up truck was the biggest seller of all cars sold. Since gasoline (petrol) is insanely cheap in the USA and the government insisted on living in a world where there are limitless of resources (or cheap imported oil from other countries, i.e Middle East) there was no need to design anything else but trucks.
hahaha the best part of this video is at 5:33.. i laughed my ass off about this.. hahaha owned =)
Ingolstädter Ingeneurskunst .
5-Zylinder for ever.
yeah audi is really awesome, we´re driving a Audi A4 1.9 Turbo Diesel, i never could sell it ;) german technique :)
Audi don't change the rules... the rules change after Audi make a mockery of the regulations and completely destroy the competition.
Like you say the regulations are getting stricter and stricter but there is always room for improvement.
I think clarkson has competition on what the best looking car ever built is.He should put this on top gear and get the stig to do a lap time and see whats what.
thats what i like about audi
they take what everybody finds shity and than they kik but with it!!!
They keep calling it Unfair Advantage because it was Audi solgan back then
What they mean by unfair advantage is that the audi's are 4 wheel drive while the other cars are rear wheel drive.The audi's would have twice the grip even with thinner tyres on them.Well at least thats what i think he means lol.
First off, I grew after IMSA's glory days, in fact this video is probably the most exposure to the series I've had. So I have no real knowledge of IMSA and its regulations.
I agree that in perfect conditions quattro gives no real advantage, but as soon as it starts to rain a bit, or whenever a layer of dust or debris or tire scrub appears on the track(which is very often), the benefits of quattro are unbeatable. If they aren't then why would so many series today disallow all wheel drive?
@gravey07 telemetry sistems, messuring speed of the wheel, temperature, trying to find strange moves and verifying if it is well adjusted
@SEThatered
Also, there was nothing in the rulebook stating drivetrain configurations.
I meant in PERFECT conditions-- In a world where tires don't degrade and the road stays clean throughout the race, etc.
Yes AWD has at least some advantage in the real world no matter what the conditions.
@AnssiMarkkanen "Unfair" has a different meaning in the USA.
Unfair = Outsmart
So since they couldn't beat the smart Audi guys, they had to change the rules to "remove" them from the "competition" again.
What are those things on the wheels? (dont say tyres) near the start of the vid.
Thanks
@maserati333333
out of 1.8 L engine.
Delta S4 was in 2500 cc class while audi was in 3000 cc class
in the dry a rwd car should beat a 4wd if properly built with equal power
A4 BTTC Quattro says something different.
ive been looking for this vid. audi put other cars to shame. muscle cars!.. haha
quattro is the best there is
as always,innovation and engineering epertise rise to the challenges,and the competition protest "unfair" how often has that happened?? ross braun did it with braun racing,some of the technical aspects of his car were like....wow,and then the naysayers got involved....it goes on.
AWD has it's advantages, but it also has disadvantages. If the Americans knew how to build a car they wouldn't of had a problem with it.
This makes me sad. Because I don't see any Audi racing at the race tracks with their AWD system "Quattro". I see BMW(M3/3series), Posche(Cayman/Boxster/911), Chevy(corvettes), Ford(Mustang/Focus RS) and lots of Mazda(Miata) cars.
Banned everywhere. Last bigger "quattro thing in racing" was bttc with Audi A4 Quattro total domination.
You are incorrect. Listen to the last 2 minutes and it explains that even in dry conditions - awd CAN be an advantage. Of course - engine, suspension, balance and driver also play a part. If you configure it correctly - the awd certainly can be an advantage in the dry...
meant to say great cars need great drivers
Why they keep calling it an "unfair advantage"?
It was fair, because it is an engineering competition as well.
So audi won it on all accounts.
will someone tell me what the horsepower is for the quatrro's? not the rally versions.
the Audi 90 IMSA GTO had around 700hp.
lol sooo true
is the IMSA GTO still around?
They do, but why hadn't the others built cary with four wheel drives... coudl have so why is it an unfair advantage...
Tell that to Audi, they don't seem to know that and win constantly...
@Clifton240Z
exactly.
Are you saying quattro is NOT a major advantage?
Based on DTM D11?
Nonsense, without turbo the engine would have produced around 200 HP. That's very little compared to the actual output of the turbo Audi 90 GTO which was over 700 HP.
The actual 'unfair advantage' of this car was the turbo, which at that point was not correctly regulated (no boost limit - this Audi had 3-4 atm boost!!). It is also important to mention that this Audi did not win the IMSA championship (GTO class) - this film seems to imply the opposite.
@ironkcoony The Germans .. quattro 2.2 5V Einpacken konnten die anderen .. Stizel hatte sein spass..
so because other makers don't want to develop all wheel drive cars, the better engineered car is banded. this action has led to a lesser quality of motor vehicle released to the market in usa and aust. just to name a few.
yes,the german cars are :-)