I talked with one of the guys who had been working in Linnavuori engine factory at the time. He was also slightly involved with that V8. Let's say it is rumored that those 2 missing V8's are propably in 9000's which are sitting in the garages of those former Linnavuori engineers. Those are going to be one hell of a garage finds in the future :)
Oh, so that's what it was about! I've read about a rumor that went with the idea of these engines possibly being installed in 2 more 9000's, but since it was just a rumor with no proof, I decided to not include it in the video, but oh well, I guess there is a chance!
I recall having this discussion with my dad who was part of the team who made the block castings for these and he did remark that perhaps someone may have used the tooling a bit more often than needed.
I agree, perfectly understandable and the "J" in names like Jarmo was pronounced correctly as Yar-mo instead of Jar(As in a glass container, or "Jar")-mo
Since you ask what do we think, okay... As a Finn I think that the Swedes could not just accept that Finns came up with cooler idea and already solution than their swedish designers. Again case of best solution scrapped because it came from wrong guy or wrong department. Pronounciation was surprisingly precise.
Pronunciation was absolutely shit as with any other foreigners and there is no need to sugar-coat it. Only Uusikaupunki was surprising well pronounced, and it still wasn't well pronounced.
There's a whole host of interesting engine swaps tht could have been done back in the day. - Saab Turbo engine in Dolomite. - Jag V12 in Range Rover. - Jag V12 in SD1 (if it fits !) - Saab/Triumph 2 litre engine in Rover 2000 SD1. - Jag AJ6 in SD1 (if it fits !)
@lewis72 The Jaguar AJ6 is a brilliant engine, why it isn't more popular, I don't know. It'll run with no oil and water, I saw a 4.0 "tested" to destruction, the abuse it will take. My dream swap the supercharged AJ6 out of an X300 XJR in an XJ S1 body shell.
@@marcusott2973 I use the T5 aswell but it has it’s limitations and problemsolving when mounting them in other cars. Mainly its about getting the right signals to the ECU. I know i few shortcuts but then you dont have access to torque control etc. The ECU wants a speed signal. You can loop the signal in the harness but then you loose control of things. Speed signal requiers a four square wave. Most speedsignals are sinus wave, that is to thin. So, you can either loop the signal or make it a four square by using the main board of an speedometre from a t5 car. Hide the speedometre somewhere in the car (you can take i apart and make it smaller) then take the signal out to the ECU. Tough you have to tell the ECU about the new gear ratio in all gears from gearbox to rear axle. Otherwise you get some shitty tuning problems. Good luck :) feel free to contact me if you have any questions. / Ola from Sweden
Saab was already on the ropes before GM came in. They sealed their fate by not listening to GM on using common parts/electronics and '08 financial came along.
@@olikat8 Then how did Volvo survive? Volvo was much more technologically advanced than Saab and didn't rely on platform and parts sharing as much as Saab. Ford just gave them money and said "have at it". GM was like an overly controlling parent. Ford let Volvo continue with their P2 platform well into the 2000's, before they finally switched to Ford platforms. GM just gave Saab some scraps, said "make do with what you have" then stole whatever they did and gave it to its favoured brands. Whenever Saab had the GALL to make something unique to their brand, GM slapped it down. Why did GM ever find it a good idea to build a premium, European brand based on nothing but recycled GM parts? Parts that are now usually common failures in whatever Saabs are left on the road.
For the last 3yrs ive Daily driven my 9000 Aero 2.3T, it has 317bhp and covers about 800 miles a week. And yet has amazing fuel consumption at 34mpg US, 40mpg UK. Paul @ The SAAB Clinic.
Yeah, I love my 9000. Drove a 2.0T 1988 for a while, that was a fun car. Then picked up a 1998 2.0T anni that rusted out in five years (2019). Now I have a 1996 2.3T that I hope will last. Nothing compares to it. What a great car. I try to keep up with the maintenance, hope it lasts. Cheers to you :)
I drove the snot out of my old 9000 2.3 Aero Hirsch - it had 485.000km on it, when I sold it, and still had 315 bhp at the wheels when measured at 450.000km! The guy that bought it, changed the pistons and increased the boost, and got "more than 480 bhp" out of it (wheelspin on the dyno at 480 measured). He lost control of it going nearly 300 on a race track, but walked away, though the car was a complete writeoff.
Trenutno vozim 9-3 , prethodno tri 9-5 pre toga sedam komada 9000 nikad nisam naleteo na pravi,9000 i stari 900 su mi nekako naj bolji,,, pozdrav i srecno,cuvajte ga 😊
I would love to see Saab be acquired by enthusiasts and reborn. I owned a few of them back in the day, and my old 900 (sedan, non turbo, manual trans) is a car I regret selling. The cars grew on me, because each of their "quirks" was usually tied to an actual improvement compared to other cars of the time. I would love to see how a modern Saab (no GM badge engineering) would be like.
@@Haffschlappe ehh. No, they aren't, obviously. Even if they were, it would have nothing to do with this. A SAAB V8 makes as much sense as a hamburger with the bun and patty the other way around and the condiments on the outside.
@Haffschlappe Rubbish. Sweden is ranked 17 (or thereabouts) on GDP per capita. National debt as a percentage of GDP is 8.5% which is low in an international comparison. What facts are you basing your claim on?
Never knew about the SAAB V8 until now. What a cool concept that could have been a great success had they gone through with it. I mean, the company has been using V8's in their Scania trucks for many decades, but I never knew about a V8 in their passenger cars. Fun fact: The SAAB 9000 had the SAAB Scania logo on its steering wheel.
Terrific video! Shame you don’t have more subscribers. The Saab-Valmet story has many other examples of engineering that were too crazy even for the Swedish Saab executives😂
@@johngibson3837 Valmet makes tracktors but Valmet Automotive Oy makes cars in uusikaupunki. Fun fact Valmet comes from Valtion metalli which means Goverments metal
So cool! I used to live in Uusikaupunki, close to the Valmet factory. The V8 Saab 9000 is well alive in the car museum next to the factory. Valmet also produced Opel Calibra and Porsche 911. And now they do Mercedes A or B series not sure which.
My family owned about ten 9000. I still own a '95 9000 2.3 Turbo which I love. I also owned a Thema 8.32 for 5-6 years. All I can say is that if the 9000 have had a V8 under the hood it would have been such an amazing car. Even though I loved the Thema, the build quality of the 9000 was far superior (except for the interior which was nice but fragile in the 8.32). A mechanic friend of mine wanted to try to swap the 8 from an 8.32 to a 9000. He quickly abandoned the idea because it was nearly impossible. I really think Saab sadly misjudged several opportunities...
My best friends dad had a 8.32, the interior by Poltura Frau was something else. And the discreet spoiler in the boot was so cool. I know a guy who's in the process of putting a 900 turbo engine into a TR7, trying to create the TR7 Sprint Triumph never got to make.
I think they should have put it into production, it might have saved them from needing to sell out to GM. I would love to have a Saab 9000 V8, it just feels right especially as their partner Scania have long been known for their V8s.
I've actually seen the black 9000 V8 running at yard of Uusikaupunki car museum. Quite a smooth-sounding engine with very little of that typical V8 burble. Sticking to the turbo-fours was probably the sensible thing to do, but who doesn't love the sound of 8 cylinders, even if it's less efficient? 😁 Thanks for a well presented video on an interesting subject! Did you know that they also designed extended wheelbase versions of the Saab 99 and 900 here in Finland?
Sticking with turbo fours WASN’T the ‘sensible thing to do’. It was the stupid thing to do. The thing is, Saab was not Volkswagen. They were fairly high end, expensive cars. And when you consider their competition (ie BMW, Lexus, Acura, etc.), sticking with turbo fours amounted to bringing a knife to a gunfight. NOBODY wanted to spend that kind of money on a glorified econobox when you could do better with something else. And THAT’S what ultimately killed Saab. Simply put, Saab needed a bigger customer base than eccentric college professors. And this V8 could have given them that.
@@matthewstorm5188 That's why Volvo developped a V8 from themselves and Yamaha and managed to sell it. Its specs were pretty much the same as BMW"s 4,4 litre N62.
Never knew about this, I know they made 48 saab 99 with triumph stag v8s in as a test but what's funny is that the stag v8 was two triumph slant 4s stuck together, saab took and developed the triumph slant 4 (which is what the b202 is) and did the same thing again
@@dj_paultuk7052 the b202 is a h engine, which is a redesign of the b engines which is a redesign of the triumph slant fours, there's still a direct lineage there
The slant 4 and V8 were developed and produces simultaneously. The development of the B series engines can be traced back to the original Triumph design, much of the original geometry is retained up to the last engines.
@@user-re6yo7tj5s A few dimensions are basically the only thing that the Triumph engine and the B engine shared. This engine was developed together with Scania after Saab-Scania was formed. The 16 valve head for the B202 originate from an earlier rally head from around 1976. Gunnar Axelsson had himself developed a 16 valve head and tried to sell it to Volvo but they were not interested, but Saab were, and so a small series of 16V heads were made for homologation purposes.
I met a guy who was buying old Turbo SAABs from a junk jards acros Europe and seling them to Hungarian pickpokets that were scaming people on the highways around Budapest at the late '90s, early 2000s. He didnt know why they R orderig just Turbo SAABs and later they told him that Turbo SAABs were perfect getaway cars since thy were much faster from any car Hungarian police drove at the time... sooo 2.0/2.3 turbo was more than enough under the hood for the time, but it woud be nice to see and V8 for sure!
Well the Swedes hated open top/cabriolet Saab 900's maybe because they were originally done in secret because it was a bad idea made by finns. Who knows what Saab future might have been if swedes would have been more open minded about finns and USA dealerships ideas?
I'm fascinated by this story of 28 Saabs being fitted with the Triumph V8. probably a fairly easy fit and Saab must have been very keen on the idea with so many prototypes being tested. there is much written and misunderstood about the Triumph (Stag) V8. it's a nicely balanced free revving efficient engine with most of its issues coming down to poor production quality and poor main dealer servicing. unfortunately BLMC were doing their absolute best to self destruct from the shop floor to the management suite and the Triumph V8 seemed to take the brunt of it. my guess is these must have been the key reasons why Saab not only evolved their own straight 4 but also the secret V8. disclosure: I spent the first 4 years of my working life at a Triumph Stag specialist and you never forget that one!!!
you know, if the SAAB V8 came to pass as a small euro style V8 and was a good fit, GM could have used it in lots of other things, and potentially used it to help develop some of the issues out of the north star.
GM just did not fix the North Star... They designed the 6 with Holden to replace it. This included a turbocharger for SAAB instead of this V8 engine we are discussing.....
Imagine if Saab would had made a rwd Saab 9000 V8 it would had been amazing an then modified it with turbos from their regular 2,3l 16valve turbo engines it would had been able to produce easily 400-500hp reliable and this in the begging of the 1990s.
The fact that SAAB was lacking anything bigger than a skinny four cylinder for a long time, was a contributing factor for their demise. Turbo might have worked in some countries/markets, but it wasn't letting the brand into the club of real luxury cars. Once they introduced the Opel V6 - it was too late.
Thank you for the video! I heard of this project years ago, but couldn't find any information about it back then. I was curious about the block and cylinder heads, but you covered those topics well 👍
Whilst a V8 can fit into the engine compartment is true you also need to consider the whole chassi balance and the road stability, And something that is always forgotten by most manufacturers namely the ergonomics for the mechanic. Given all these points id say the V8 was rightly not put into the SAAB 90, 900 and 9000. Now the geek inside me would have loved the Finnish designed V8 to have been an alternative. Also whuslt the basic gorundwork of SAAB, Alfa Romeo and Lancia was a Coperation the cars built from it was worlds apart. Whilst the SAAB 9-7 and 9-2 was truly a chevrolet and a subaru.
The engine itself fitting wouldn't be the issue, what would be an issue is the 'packaging' of it as it's called, so the connection to the transmission, the transmission and diff etc. It would all have to live under the hood since it would need to be front wheel drive to be a SAAB. It's not impossible, look at the late '80s Cadillacs, but the end result might not be that desirable in the end. Like the caddies heh. I quite liked those caddies, forget the model now. But anyway, the end result of a big heavy engine in the front of a front wheel drive car is, how to put it, 'different' to drive. I've pushed a SAAB 99 with the 2.3L from the 900 or 9000 in it, that had an upgraded turbo system on it shelling out 245 horse on the front wheels... It was fun for sure, but I don't think it would have driven 'better' with an even heavier engine, it already 'pivoted' a tad in front of the front axle which is a weird thing to drive.
I drove several Saab Cars, from the 900 w lenghtwise engine, to 9000 2.0, 9000 2.3 T Hirsch to 9.3 TTiD Aero. All of them had very moderate fuel consumption, behaved stable and reliable on German autobahn with GPS tracked 250+ km/h (the 9000 and the 9.3), and crossing over swiss alp pass roads, so I never missed a V8 at all. Once I’v got a V6 during inspection of my car. Yes, from outside, it did sound A BIT smoother, inside the car, I missed the sound of Hirsch‘ exhaust sound - handling of this far too front-heavy car, was not satisfying at all. Constructionwise, a cool project, but as a longtime SAAB enthusiast, for me the engines never were a point to complain about. As opposed to ZF Automatics in 9000s or auxiliary components ( alternator, starter) used in late 9.3 models, which died mostly far below reaching 100‘000km. Yes I miss the brand and its cars. For the few driving I to do nowadays, its an C5 Diesel, serving my needs. It‘s impressive in torque and comfort. But too heavy, specially on front axle, for any „ambitioned driving“..
Very interesting. But... I have a feeling that some things were not meant to be. Moving to four-stroke motors with the Ford V4 and later the Triumph slant four makes sense... But a SAAB with a V8 lump seems somehow beyond illogical. It is fair enough to try to chase the US market, but doing it with a V8 seems odd. I'm glad this didn't happen. I love Saabs. My wife still drives one.
Why would offering a V8 option to the American market have been odd? Americans love V8s. Which is one of the reasons BMW and Mercedes used to have V8 engine options.
@@Kivikesku Indeed. It suits a significant part of the US market (or it did at one time). But for many, the entire ethos of Saab is somehow contrary to the "cubes and pistons" mentality. Citroën was (in a way) similar - they flirted with 22cv V8 version of the Traction Avant. But essentially, they stayed away from the V8. It is like putting humps on the back of a race horse to make a camel... There's no need. There are already camels, which are very popular on desert areas. But crossing deserts is not what race horse do.
Owned several 9000’s when I lived in the UK, my favorite was the Griffin with the GM 3.0 V6 engine. Glorious daily driver/cruiser. Only car to not upset my chronic back condition on long drives. Only weak point I found was the plastic valve covers that warp over time which causes oil to leak onto exhaust manifolds. The remedy is to source alloy valve covers that GM fitted to their 2.5 V6 engine in the Vauxhall Vectra. Once I changed those I can’t remember having another single issue with the car.
9000 Aero had basically the same specs. Makes no sense to invest in new large engine to offer performance so similiar to existing offer for the same model.
really glad they didn't; you can get same power from original engine today with better tech. Also, please send me one of those extras so I can shove it in my 900 immediately!
I daily drive a '96 9000 Aero, 5 Speed, Factory B234"R" with high pressure TD04 turbo, mostly in stock form other than Bilstien B6 shocks, polyurethane bushings, Less restrictive center exhaust & so on. Im also an automotive photographer & someone who restores & drives vehicles that range from Supercars to muscle, European to Japanese, all of it, my 9000 remains one of the greatest cars ive ever driven. Fuck GM 😂
i have 5 SAAB´s they are amazing nice, the 73 one was out of this world when new(i think it´s the first on the video ), it had modern features and a lot of confort not seen in regular brands except Mercedes and other high-end brands such as RollsRoyce and Jaguar or even the Citroen DS 23
I know personally location of one V8. Can't remember if there was two blocks, at least blown one was there. Saw those when i bought old lathe from deceased Linnavuori employee. They weren't sale two years ago, but i know Saab enthusiast that would take them screaming
What a shame all that hard work gone to waste. And the team did it. Imagine an AWD version that competed in rallies and a homologated street version. Oh well.
Thanks for a nice video. You pronounce the Finnish names very well 🙂. I was visiting the Linnavuori factory some 25 years ago and at that time there was one V8 at the local engine museum. Maybe it has since been moved to Uusikaupunki as the Linnavuori factory is now AGCO Power and has nothing to do with Valmet anymore?
I don't think the world gives those crazy Finn's enough credit. But I digress, a V8 Saab is just as pointless as a Mini Countryman. I've got a 93 and a 95 with plenty of power on tap. Decent mpg's as well.
As a lifelong Saab enthusiast, my 1st being a 99Turbo some 40 years ago!! followed by 2x 900 Turbos, 2x 9000i ( non Turbo) & 3x 9-5 Aero's, the most recent one being DE Estate with 300bhp, unfortunately I blew the engine, so the car was sold as spares 😢 would I buy another Saab, hell yeah, but they getting quite old now, a lot of what I have have not been looked after, so fallen into banger territory, a crying shame if you as me 😮
Imagine doing the timing chains on the b%&tard! I had an old B engined 9-5 and my mechanic would run a mile whenever I suggested it might need a chain soon. The imagine two of them and a couple of turbos in the way!
I'm a Native Detroiter and helpless automotive degenerate. V8 front drive cars suck. Fwd. Stick shift. Peppy 4cylinder. Na or turbo. That's the formula.
Very cool project, but a 9000 V8 woludn´t sell well. The basic H-engine has to much friction and is to "big" and stong being built for turbo charging. A N/A V8 out of the same platform would not performe at all regards to fuel consumption. The 3,0l V6 sold in very low number, the V8 vould be worse.
I had 900 here in California never rusted but broke down all the time and parts were terribly expensive like Volvo parts are the downfall of Saab in my opinion was the unreliability and expensive maint I will never own a Volvo, Merc,, Bmw or UK car out of warranty never, been there done that never again...
Yes, but Valmet is Finnish. Valmet made a lot of special saab's. Like ALL 900 convertibles, which was Valmet's idea in the first place. Over 700 000 Saab's were made in Finland.
I talked with one of the guys who had been working in Linnavuori engine factory at the time. He was also slightly involved with that V8. Let's say it is rumored that those 2 missing V8's are propably in 9000's which are sitting in the garages of those former Linnavuori engineers. Those are going to be one hell of a garage finds in the future :)
Oh, so that's what it was about! I've read about a rumor that went with the idea of these engines possibly being installed in 2 more 9000's, but since it was just a rumor with no proof, I decided to not include it in the video, but oh well, I guess there is a chance!
I recall having this discussion with my dad who was part of the team who made the block castings for these and he did remark that perhaps someone may have used the tooling a bit more often than needed.
Man, I hope they've stored them properly. At least one of those needs to be twin-turboed. As was intended by God and the development team.
I had a SAAB 900 TURBO back in the early 80's - to this day, I still miss that car. CHEERS from AUSTRALIA
No need to apologize. Your pronounciation was very good for a non-finnish speaker. Surprisingly good! 👌🏼❤️🇫🇮
😂 If you say so
@@teppotepponen6652 I do say so. Most foreigners pronounce Finnish names and words a whole lot worse. Especially english speaking people
I agree, perfectly understandable and the "J" in names like Jarmo was pronounced correctly as Yar-mo instead of Jar(As in a glass container, or "Jar")-mo
Since you ask what do we think, okay... As a Finn I think that the Swedes could not just accept that Finns came up with cooler idea and already solution than their swedish designers. Again case of best solution scrapped because it came from wrong guy or wrong department. Pronounciation was surprisingly precise.
It was a matter of money, nothing else!
Pronunciation was absolutely shit as with any other foreigners and there is no need to sugar-coat it. Only Uusikaupunki was surprising well pronounced, and it still wasn't well pronounced.
I forgot that this one was designed by us and not our "dear" friends to west.
@@J1I9M7M4Y It was not...
@@J1I9M7M4Y You would be suprised how petty swedish people are. They never got rid of the colonizer mindset.
I know someone who's in the process of putting a Saab H turbo engine in a Triumph TR7.
Lovely project
There's a whole host of interesting engine swaps tht could have been done back in the day.
- Saab Turbo engine in Dolomite.
- Jag V12 in Range Rover.
- Jag V12 in SD1 (if it fits !)
- Saab/Triumph 2 litre engine in Rover 2000 SD1.
- Jag AJ6 in SD1 (if it fits !)
I have Built a Super 7 replica with a Saab B204 engine.
505hp 650nm of torque at the wheels.
Only changed the rods in the engine.
A beast.
@lewis72 The Jaguar AJ6 is a brilliant engine, why it isn't more popular, I don't know.
It'll run with no oil and water, I saw a 4.0 "tested" to destruction, the abuse it will take.
My dream swap the supercharged AJ6 out of an X300 XJR in an XJ S1 body shell.
@Nellabellabi as he wants to run a T5 gear box and standard rear axle, he's aiming for around 240hp.
That 7 sounds extremely spicy.
@@marcusott2973
I use the T5 aswell but it has it’s limitations and problemsolving when mounting them in other cars.
Mainly its about getting the right signals to the ECU.
I know i few shortcuts but then you dont have access to torque control etc.
The ECU wants a speed signal.
You can loop the signal in the harness but then you loose control of things.
Speed signal requiers a four square wave.
Most speedsignals are sinus wave, that is to thin.
So, you can either loop the signal or make it a four square by using the main board of an speedometre from a t5 car.
Hide the speedometre somewhere in the car (you can take i apart and make it smaller) then take the signal out to the ECU.
Tough you have to tell the ECU about the new gear ratio in all gears from gearbox to rear axle.
Otherwise you get some shitty tuning problems.
Good luck :) feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
/ Ola from Sweden
GM couldn’t have destroyed SAAB any better if they really tried
Only the government could have ruined more companies
The 2008 crisis did
Saab was already on the ropes before GM came in. They sealed their fate by not listening to GM on using common parts/electronics and '08 financial came along.
@@olikat8 Then how did Volvo survive? Volvo was much more technologically advanced than Saab and didn't rely on platform and parts sharing as much as Saab. Ford just gave them money and said "have at it". GM was like an overly controlling parent. Ford let Volvo continue with their P2 platform well into the 2000's, before they finally switched to Ford platforms. GM just gave Saab some scraps, said "make do with what you have" then stole whatever they did and gave it to its favoured brands. Whenever Saab had the GALL to make something unique to their brand, GM slapped it down. Why did GM ever find it a good idea to build a premium, European brand based on nothing but recycled GM parts? Parts that are now usually common failures in whatever Saabs are left on the road.
@@bombardier6033 bought by Ford, sold to China. Now a Chinese car company...they didn't "Make it."
For the last 3yrs ive Daily driven my 9000 Aero 2.3T, it has 317bhp and covers about 800 miles a week. And yet has amazing fuel consumption at 34mpg US, 40mpg UK. Paul @ The SAAB Clinic.
Yeah, I love my 9000. Drove a 2.0T 1988 for a while, that was a fun car. Then picked up a 1998 2.0T anni that rusted out in five years (2019). Now I have a 1996 2.3T that I hope will last. Nothing compares to it. What a great car. I try to keep up with the maintenance, hope it lasts. Cheers to you :)
9000 Aero. Maybe the best car ever.
I drove the snot out of my old 9000 2.3 Aero Hirsch - it had 485.000km on it, when I sold it, and still had 315 bhp at the wheels when measured at 450.000km! The guy that bought it, changed the pistons and increased the boost, and got "more than 480 bhp" out of it (wheelspin on the dyno at 480 measured). He lost control of it going nearly 300 on a race track, but walked away, though the car was a complete writeoff.
Trenutno vozim 9-3 , prethodno tri 9-5 pre toga sedam komada 9000 nikad nisam naleteo na pravi,9000 i stari 900 su mi nekako naj bolji,,, pozdrav i srecno,cuvajte ga 😊
Doduse,iz Srbije sam,u kojoj su sve vrednosti izokrenute
I would love to see Saab be acquired by enthusiasts and reborn. I owned a few of them back in the day, and my old 900 (sedan, non turbo, manual trans) is a car I regret selling. The cars grew on me, because each of their "quirks" was usually tied to an actual improvement compared to other cars of the time. I would love to see how a modern Saab (no GM badge engineering) would be like.
it was bought by the chinese it's called nevs
Had a 84 8v 900 turbo and an 86 16v 900 turbo SPG. Fantastic cars.
Sweden is broke, Finland too...
@@Haffschlappe ehh. No, they aren't, obviously. Even if they were, it would have nothing to do with this. A SAAB V8 makes as much sense as a hamburger with the bun and patty the other way around and the condiments on the outside.
@Haffschlappe Rubbish.
Sweden is ranked 17 (or thereabouts) on GDP per capita.
National debt as a percentage of GDP is 8.5% which is low in an international comparison.
What facts are you basing your claim on?
Never knew about the SAAB V8 until now. What a cool concept that could have been a great success had they gone through with it.
I mean, the company has been using V8's in their Scania trucks for many decades, but I never knew about a V8 in their passenger cars.
Fun fact: The SAAB 9000 had the SAAB Scania logo on its steering wheel.
SAAB Turbo was a fun car to drive.
Terrific video! Shame you don’t have more subscribers. The Saab-Valmet story has many other examples of engineering that were too crazy even for the Swedish Saab executives😂
Valmet makes tractors and some forestry machines
Thank you!🙃
Indeed it does! Including the 9000-based convertible concept called Fivebow, I talked about it in my 9000 video
@@johngibson3837 Water is wet! Cpt. Obvious. They also made guns, I've shot quite a bit with one.
@@johngibson3837 And Opel Calibras, Porsches, Mercedes Benzs etc....
@@johngibson3837 Valmet makes tracktors but Valmet Automotive Oy makes cars in uusikaupunki. Fun fact Valmet comes from Valtion metalli which means Goverments metal
Pretty decent pronunciation of all those finnish names and a good video overall.
So cool! I used to live in Uusikaupunki, close to the Valmet factory. The V8 Saab 9000 is well alive in the car museum next to the factory. Valmet also produced Opel Calibra and Porsche 911. And now they do Mercedes A or B series not sure which.
My family owned about ten 9000.
I still own a '95 9000 2.3 Turbo which I love.
I also owned a Thema 8.32 for 5-6 years.
All I can say is that if the 9000 have had a V8 under the hood it would have been such an amazing car. Even though I loved the Thema, the build quality of the 9000 was far superior (except for the interior which was nice but fragile in the 8.32).
A mechanic friend of mine wanted to try to swap the 8 from an 8.32 to a 9000. He quickly abandoned the idea because it was nearly impossible.
I really think Saab sadly misjudged several opportunities...
My best friends dad had a 8.32, the interior by Poltura Frau was something else. And the discreet spoiler in the boot was so cool.
I know a guy who's in the process of putting a 900 turbo engine into a TR7, trying to create the TR7 Sprint Triumph never got to make.
I think they should have put it into production, it might have saved them from needing to sell out to GM. I would love to have a Saab 9000 V8, it just feels right especially as their partner Scania have long been known for their V8s.
I've actually seen the black 9000 V8 running at yard of Uusikaupunki car museum. Quite a smooth-sounding engine with very little of that typical V8 burble. Sticking to the turbo-fours was probably the sensible thing to do, but who doesn't love the sound of 8 cylinders, even if it's less efficient? 😁 Thanks for a well presented video on an interesting subject! Did you know that they also designed extended wheelbase versions of the Saab 99 and 900 here in Finland?
Sticking with turbo fours WASN’T the ‘sensible thing to do’. It was the stupid thing to do. The thing is, Saab was not Volkswagen. They were fairly high end, expensive cars. And when you consider their competition (ie BMW, Lexus, Acura, etc.), sticking with turbo fours amounted to bringing a knife to a gunfight. NOBODY wanted to spend that kind of money on a glorified econobox when you could do better with something else. And THAT’S what ultimately killed Saab. Simply put, Saab needed a bigger customer base than eccentric college professors. And this V8 could have given them that.
@@matthewstorm5188 That's why Volvo developped a V8 from themselves and Yamaha and managed to sell it. Its specs were pretty much the same as BMW"s 4,4 litre N62.
Great lil video again my man 👊🏼
Never knew about this, I know they made 48 saab 99 with triumph stag v8s in as a test but what's funny is that the stag v8 was two triumph slant 4s stuck together, saab took and developed the triumph slant 4 (which is what the b202 is) and did the same thing again
The B202 is NOT the triumph engine. Its not related to the old B & H series engines. The B202 was all new by Ricardo.
@@dj_paultuk7052 the b202 is a h engine, which is a redesign of the b engines which is a redesign of the triumph slant fours, there's still a direct lineage there
The slant 4 and V8 were developed and produces simultaneously. The development of the B series engines can be traced back to the original Triumph design, much of the original geometry is retained up to the last engines.
@@user-re6yo7tj5s A few dimensions are basically the only thing that the Triumph engine and the B engine shared. This engine was developed together with Scania after Saab-Scania was formed. The 16 valve head for the B202 originate from an earlier rally head from around 1976. Gunnar Axelsson had himself developed a 16 valve head and tried to sell it to Volvo but they were not interested, but Saab were, and so a small series of 16V heads were made for homologation purposes.
uzikaupunki :) cheers from Finland!
Great Job! Love the video!
Nothing more frustrating than the tale of a well liked car manufacturer being thwarted like this.
I met a guy who was buying old Turbo SAABs from a junk jards acros Europe and seling them to Hungarian pickpokets that were scaming people on the highways around Budapest at the late '90s, early 2000s. He didnt know why they R orderig just Turbo SAABs and later they told him that Turbo SAABs were perfect getaway cars since thy were much faster from any car Hungarian police drove at the time... sooo 2.0/2.3 turbo was more than enough under the hood for the time, but it woud be nice to see and V8 for sure!
Ive seen it a couple of times, my car is in the same museum as the 2 v8’s
If you want me to take some videos of the car or engine let me know!
Well the Swedes hated open top/cabriolet Saab 900's maybe because they were originally done in secret because it was a bad idea made by finns. Who knows what Saab future might have been if swedes would have been more open minded about finns and USA dealerships ideas?
I'm fascinated by this story of 28 Saabs being fitted with the Triumph V8. probably a fairly easy fit and Saab must have been very keen on the idea with so many prototypes being tested.
there is much written and misunderstood about the Triumph (Stag) V8. it's a nicely balanced free revving efficient engine with most of its issues coming down to poor production quality and poor main dealer servicing. unfortunately BLMC were doing their absolute best to self destruct from the shop floor to the management suite and the Triumph V8 seemed to take the brunt of it. my guess is these must have been the key reasons why Saab not only evolved their own straight 4 but also the secret V8.
disclosure: I spent the first 4 years of my working life at a Triumph Stag specialist and you never forget that one!!!
you know, if the SAAB V8 came to pass as a small euro style V8 and was a good fit, GM could have used it in lots of other things, and potentially used it to help develop some of the issues out of the north star.
GM just did not fix the North Star...
They designed the 6 with Holden to replace it. This included a turbocharger for SAAB instead of this V8 engine we are discussing.....
@@danieltynan5301 look the North Star went through a major revision in 2000, and was fixed, sorry buttcrack bill, but they DID fix the issues with it
@@incompetentdiplomat3716 yes... But the 6 cylinder replaced it in most of it's applications.
There was someone who thought that saab's needed more character. I now have a new hero!
As a lot of things in Saab's history....wrong time...( wrong place ).... Imagine that things Saab did fell in place...
Imagine if Saab would had made a rwd Saab 9000 V8 it would had been amazing an then modified it with turbos from their regular 2,3l 16valve turbo engines it would had been able to produce easily 400-500hp reliable and this in the begging of the 1990s.
The 1968 SAAB 99 had the 1.7 l and from 1970 the 1.85 l from English Triumph and then from 1972 a 2.0 l which was SAABs own made engine in Sweden.
The fact that SAAB was lacking anything bigger than a skinny four cylinder for a long time, was a contributing factor for their demise. Turbo might have worked in some countries/markets, but it wasn't letting the brand into the club of real luxury cars. Once they introduced the Opel V6 - it was too late.
How ironic that today, now every luxury carmaker uses turbo 4 and many times in place of their past V6 and V8 engines.
@@nakoma5 And it's just so sad.
What is a pound? and miles?
Thank you for the video! I heard of this project years ago, but couldn't find any information about it back then. I was curious about the block and cylinder heads, but you covered those topics well 👍
Whilst a V8 can fit into the engine compartment is true you also need to consider the whole chassi balance and the road stability, And something that is always forgotten by most manufacturers namely the ergonomics for the mechanic.
Given all these points id say the V8 was rightly not put into the SAAB 90, 900 and 9000.
Now the geek inside me would have loved the Finnish designed V8 to have been an alternative.
Also whuslt the basic gorundwork of SAAB, Alfa Romeo and Lancia was a Coperation the cars built from it was worlds apart.
Whilst the SAAB 9-7 and 9-2 was truly a chevrolet and a subaru.
Very nice car
I am now wondering if the Rover V8 would fit. I remember our 99 had a very wide engine bay.
The engine itself fitting wouldn't be the issue, what would be an issue is the 'packaging' of it as it's called, so the connection to the transmission, the transmission and diff etc. It would all have to live under the hood since it would need to be front wheel drive to be a SAAB. It's not impossible, look at the late '80s Cadillacs, but the end result might not be that desirable in the end. Like the caddies heh. I quite liked those caddies, forget the model now. But anyway, the end result of a big heavy engine in the front of a front wheel drive car is, how to put it, 'different' to drive. I've pushed a SAAB 99 with the 2.3L from the 900 or 9000 in it, that had an upgraded turbo system on it shelling out 245 horse on the front wheels... It was fun for sure, but I don't think it would have driven 'better' with an even heavier engine, it already 'pivoted' a tad in front of the front axle which is a weird thing to drive.
@@noth606 Thank you. I have helped to put a Triumph engine into a SAAB. And other engines into other things too.
I drove several Saab Cars, from the 900 w lenghtwise engine, to 9000 2.0, 9000 2.3 T Hirsch to 9.3 TTiD Aero. All of them had very moderate fuel consumption, behaved stable and reliable on German autobahn with GPS tracked 250+ km/h (the 9000 and the 9.3), and crossing over swiss alp pass roads, so I never missed a V8 at all. Once I’v got a V6 during inspection of my car. Yes, from outside, it did sound A BIT smoother, inside the car, I missed the sound of Hirsch‘ exhaust sound - handling of this far too front-heavy car, was not satisfying at all. Constructionwise, a cool project, but as a longtime SAAB enthusiast, for me the engines never were a point to complain about. As opposed to ZF Automatics in 9000s or auxiliary components ( alternator, starter) used in late 9.3 models, which died mostly far below reaching 100‘000km. Yes I miss the brand and its cars. For the few driving I to do nowadays, its an C5 Diesel, serving my needs. It‘s impressive in torque and comfort. But too heavy, specially on front axle, for any „ambitioned driving“..
Saab had one time this crazy X-type two stroke engine that never went to development. But it is there as a plan🤔
Nearly all Suomi names.. interesting.
Well, to be fair, this whole project was almost entirely carried out by Valmet, so it does make sense
Yup, there is one sample at the lobby of Valmet Automotive plant, which is btw making Mercedes Benz today.
Very interesting. But... I have a feeling that some things were not meant to be.
Moving to four-stroke motors with the Ford V4 and later the Triumph slant four makes sense...
But a SAAB with a V8 lump seems somehow beyond illogical.
It is fair enough to try to chase the US market, but doing it with a V8 seems odd.
I'm glad this didn't happen.
I love Saabs.
My wife still drives one.
Why would offering a V8 option to the American market have been odd? Americans love V8s. Which is one of the reasons BMW and Mercedes used to have V8 engine options.
@@Kivikesku Indeed. It suits a significant part of the US market (or it did at one time). But for many, the entire ethos of Saab is somehow contrary to the "cubes and pistons" mentality. Citroën was (in a way) similar - they flirted with 22cv V8 version of the Traction Avant. But essentially, they stayed away from the V8. It is like putting humps on the back of a race horse to make a camel... There's no need. There are already camels, which are very popular on desert areas. But crossing deserts is not what race horse do.
Did SAAB speak to FIAT I wonder about that Lancia engine?
SAAB Sweden 🇸🇪: Noooo... it's not efficient and doesn't make any sense!
SAAB Finland 🇫🇮 & US 🇺🇸: Yeah, we know 🤝
1:34 this must be the most dangerous company image film ever made
I hope the other 2 V8s they can't find made it home safely with the guy that had to pay the speeding ticket. That would seem fair to me. Good times.
I've heard so much Finland in this video that I'm starting to question whether SAAB was Swedish or really Finnish
Owned several 9000’s when I lived in the UK, my favorite was the Griffin with the GM 3.0 V6 engine. Glorious daily driver/cruiser. Only car to not upset my chronic back condition on long drives. Only weak point I found was the plastic valve covers that warp over time which causes oil to leak onto exhaust manifolds. The remedy is to source alloy valve covers that GM fitted to their 2.5 V6 engine in the Vauxhall Vectra. Once I changed those I can’t remember having another single issue with the car.
The Saab 9-5 Aero (MY03) with 250bhp was nothing to laugh about. Maybe not a V8, but still it did top out at 152m/h.
That would've been nice!
MG ZT 260 and Rover 75 V8 were similar projects that actually made it to.production but ....... Times have moved on the V8 is the stuff of history
Ah the legendary Valmet Saab 9000 V8 !
9000 Aero had basically the same specs. Makes no sense to invest in new large engine to offer performance so similiar to existing offer for the same model.
1:16 imagine thinking a SAAB needs more character.
really glad they didn't; you can get same power from original engine today with better tech. Also, please send me one of those extras so I can shove it in my 900 immediately!
I daily drive a '96 9000 Aero, 5 Speed, Factory B234"R" with high pressure TD04 turbo, mostly in stock form other than Bilstien B6 shocks, polyurethane bushings, Less restrictive center exhaust & so on. Im also an automotive photographer & someone who restores & drives vehicles that range from Supercars to muscle, European to Japanese, all of it, my 9000 remains one of the greatest cars ive ever driven.
Fuck GM 😂
The names were correctly spelled besides Salmén probably has é and not e
Old fu....n glory days❤🇫🇮
As a Sweden I'll never forgive GM for what they did to SAAB. The 9-7x and 9-8 are not real SAABs.
Valmet tractor plant?
The engine was made by Valmet's Linnavuori engine factory, which is now Agco Power.
i have 5 SAAB´s they are amazing nice, the 73 one was out of this world when new(i think it´s the first on the video ), it had modern features and a lot of confort not seen in regular brands except Mercedes and other high-end brands such as RollsRoyce and Jaguar or even the Citroen DS 23
How do I steal that museum 9000?
I know personally location of one V8. Can't remember if there was two blocks, at least blown one was there. Saw those when i bought old lathe from deceased Linnavuori employee. They weren't sale two years ago, but i know Saab enthusiast that would take them screaming
What a shame all that hard work gone to waste. And the team did it. Imagine an AWD version that competed in rallies and a homologated street version. Oh well.
Nothing to do with americans.. it was fully finnish design that didnt get a chance.
Nothing...yeah, just designed the concept for american market with spesific american-style details....
738 135 Saab cars made in Finland by Saab-Valmet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmet_Automotive
All Finnish! Great! Thought Saab was Swedish 😉 Always liked Saab. Very unfortunate.
Saab is Swedish indeed, but Valmet is Finnish, and given that the entire project was done mostly by Finns, I titled the video as "Finno-American"😁
Thanks for a nice video. You pronounce the Finnish names very well 🙂. I was visiting the Linnavuori factory some 25 years ago and at that time there was one V8 at the local engine museum. Maybe it has since been moved to Uusikaupunki as the Linnavuori factory is now AGCO Power and has nothing to do with Valmet anymore?
I don't think the world gives those crazy Finn's enough credit. But I digress, a V8 Saab is just as pointless as a Mini Countryman. I've got a 93 and a 95 with plenty of power on tap. Decent mpg's as well.
i didn't know saab was finnish 😅
It isn't, but Valmet is!
Lancia Thema 8.32 was same platform as 9000 but as mentioned a V8 did not "fit the Saab philosophy"..
As a lifelong Saab enthusiast, my 1st being a 99Turbo some 40 years ago!! followed by 2x 900 Turbos, 2x 9000i ( non Turbo) & 3x 9-5 Aero's, the most recent one being DE Estate with 300bhp, unfortunately I blew the engine, so the car was sold as spares 😢 would I buy another Saab, hell yeah, but they getting quite old now, a lot of what I have have not been looked after, so fallen into banger territory, a crying shame if you as me 😮
i have saab 99 from 1984 and it has a b engine
Okay uuden kaupungin tehtaan valmistama saab
Good video. Well done on the finnish names. They are a pain to non natives.
Imagine doing the timing chains on the b%&tard! I had an old B engined 9-5 and my mechanic would run a mile whenever I suggested it might need a chain soon. The imagine two of them and a couple of turbos in the way!
Saab 8:32
Rumor has it that the north star engine is basically this engine..
It's not. The Northstar engine was developed by Oldsmobile starting in the mid eighties.
They should have just used a Rover V8
the crappy gm ignition switches killed saab, to many new cars on flatbeds will do that to a brand.
Wow 😯 didn’t know SAAB was a Finish Car 😮so SAAB JAS GRIPEN is a Finland 🇫🇮-Russian invention? Wow 😯
I'm a Native Detroiter and helpless automotive degenerate.
V8 front drive cars suck. Fwd. Stick shift. Peppy 4cylinder. Na or turbo. That's the formula.
Very cool project, but a 9000 V8 woludn´t sell well. The basic H-engine has to much friction and is to "big" and stong being built for turbo charging.
A N/A V8 out of the same platform would not performe at all regards to fuel consumption.
The 3,0l V6 sold in very low number, the V8 vould be worse.
The V6 had less power and torque than the smaller 2.3T, which eventually replaced it.
I had 900 here in California never rusted but broke down all the time and parts were terribly expensive like Volvo parts are the downfall of Saab in my opinion was the unreliability and expensive maint I will never own a Volvo, Merc,, Bmw or UK car out of warranty never, been there done that never again...
Having driven a Vigen, I am certain all SAAB needed was a turbo.
Well that's a bloody shame, that V8 Saab would kick ass haha 😂
As long as it is still front wheel drive, it's not good enough.
For what?
@@htimsid For what I want from a car, obviously.
Odds are, that this project was not geared torwards customers like you 😉
@@Fasnfip Very, very true! 😂 I'd love one though; a rear wheel drive Saab with a V8 ... wow!
@@ClaudeSac I agree wholeheartedly! I bet prices would be through the roof now though! 😂
Finland??
No SAAB is from Sweden.
Yes, but Valmet is Finnish. Valmet made a lot of special saab's. Like ALL 900 convertibles, which was Valmet's idea in the first place. Over 700 000 Saab's were made in Finland.
@@formatique_arschloch
Thanks. He doesn't mention that at all in his video.
@@formatique_arschloch
...and THIS SAAB & it's V8 is completely a Finnish product.
mmmm. A V8 into a Saab 95/96 instead of the V4?
Perhaps SAAB stuck to their niche concept for too long ?
SAAB made a lot of mistakes
Finland belongs to Russia 🇷🇺 😊
V6 os more like Saab and liked in Saab because is npt look me and my special V8... FANS LIKE ME DONT GIBE A F.. K