Hornby's class 60 release makes sense for Hornby. The buzz of Accurascale and Cavalex class 60s will help sell Hornby's. The model has already been designed and sold by adding sound via the TXS HM7000 decoder, uplift's the model. Though, in my opinion, not he the level of the asking price.
Hi Dinmore Junction thanks for the comment. And I agree I think there definitely is a place for the Hornby version but not at the asking price. If it was significantly cheaper it would appeal to a greater audience, certainly for the DCC option it is cheaper but I would be more happy with a bigger gap from Hornby’s 2005 tooling to Accurascale’s price, the tooling costs have been payed for more than enough for the age so could easily knock out a DC version at £120 and the sound version around the £200 mark would be more sensible in my eyes. But like I said in the video time will tell if they sell as I can see the DC versions hitting the sales come next year. 😊👍
A good thought provoking video Harry. Found my way here through Hylton at Proper Chuffed and enjoying your content. On the subject of duplication, I think it's a difficult one for the manufacturers as with the complexity of modern model locomotives, the research and development, tooling and prep starts years in advance of the actual model release. For a variety of reasons, not least of all anti-cartel/collusion avoidance, manufacturers keep details on new projects very close to their chests and although it can be argued that the plethora of potential subjects should ensure these duplications shouldn't occur, it must be remembered that these subjects have to be profitable and therefore appeal to the widest possible market, and it is no surprise that the same subjects are targeted by different manufacturers. That said, a greater collaboration between manufacturers after the public news release of their models to avoid livery/running number duplication should be the order of the day.
Hi thank you for the comment and making your way over, really grateful for Hylton shouting me out. And yes it is true manufactures can’t discuss their upcoming projects in terms of what they’re making and how ect. It’s more the whole Rapido/Hornby collab to ensure they aren’t going to produce the same livery options so they all win. Where as in the case of the class 60 seems Hornby aren’t that generous. That said another commenter did point out that maybe an olive branch was extended but declined by Accurascale or Cavalex and that until more information comes to light we won’t know. Either way it’s a great time to be a modern traction fan in the market for a Class 60 as we have so many to choose from. Again thank you for the comment and hope you enjoy the channel! All the best, Harry
Interesting video Harry. I think its a bold play from Hornby to step into this mix, but I suspect most will see sense and go for either Cavalex or Accurascale, especially given Hornby's price point.
@@Proper_Chuffed Hi Hylton thank you so much for the comment means a lot! It has been an interesting year for the Class 60 and I can’t quite figure out why Hornby has come in with the oldest tooling but the highest price? 😂 however their sound models work out a lot better than the new kids on the block. But yeah I predict the newer tooled models from both Accurascale and Cavalex will out sell Hornby’s but who knows might get a good bargain in the sales this time next year. Cheers, Harry
Thanks for the video, it prompted me to search the Class 60, I found a local retailer had a Black Friday Sale with a Hornby Class 60 "Steadfast' 60001 on sale for AUD241, about GBP124 with free postage. I snapped it up. As a fixed income modeller this is my new strategy, take advantage of the market, over the past months as overstocks have been released I have saved hundreds of dollars on great locos, including Railroad+ models with sound, and the same has been true with rolling stock, so my engine shed and carriage sidings are looking good. I know it won't last, but hey, make hay while the sun shines. ...Drew
Hi Drew, Glad to hear you’ve managed to pick up a readably priced Hornby Class 60. I have heard good things about the tooling even though it is old. However I wouldn’t be paying the new asking price. Hope you have a great time running it round your layout 😊👍
From my observations in regards to the 60081 model. I think Rails and Cavalex models are going to be covering the EWS/GWR early 2000's version as the Hornby model is based on the LSL/GWR version that is part of the 1/1 collection so they may not be duplicating Cavelex Models on that front as such. 60029 however is a duplicate of the limited edition model that Cavelex/Rail Exclusive as doing. From my understanding, Hornby are trying their best to avoid duplicates with their models as the Loadhaul livery is as the following. Hornby are doing 60008 "Gypsum Queen II" in its 1997 livery. Accurascale are doing 60007 in the mid 1990's Loadhaul livery and Cavelex Models are doing 60059 as Swinden Dalesman. All are based on the mid 1990's I believe and will have the red/white warning flashes. Personally I don't mind the Cavalex Models Class 60 having a C4 drive system as Heljan and Piko has used the C4 drive system for years and it helps better on uneven tracks. I have the new Cavalex Models 60062 and I really love it!
Hi Thank you for the comment and really in-depth knowledge! It will be interesting to see the differences when all three come to reality to see if there’s any noticeable differences. Glad you’re enjoying your Cavalex class 60 I presume you have gone for steel on steel? I am still waiting on mine but cannot wait! 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways Yes mate. That's the one. I call it the "Leopard" livery as it kind of hints at a Leopard pattern in some ways. My 60062 is non sound because like with 60100 in DB I am getting from Accurascale, it will be display only as I am more of a BR man. Also besides 60098 from Cavalex/Rails with sound I want, I am also after Transrail 60097 that is another special commission. Here is a tip. Look in the manual for the clues and then hunt them down as I want to secure one before they all sell out. As 60097 is non standard too. All the best mate. Peter.
Sounds like you have quite the collection coming Peter. I unfortunately missed the postman yesterday as I had gone out for a friends birthday and lone behold the good old postie came ten minutes after I’d left and I missed the ring door bell as I was driving. Gutted! It’s being rescheduled for tomorrow so fingers crossed 😊👍 All the best my friend! Harry
@@YorkshireRailways No problem. I have covered my model of 60062 and I love the quality. You won't be disappointed I am sure. I am just eagerly awaiting 60098 to come in stock and I am going to pounce on it like a Lion. I mainly do BR nowadays so that it mostly my era. Just imagine if Cavalex Models did a Class 150/0 1984 3 car set. Only 150001 and 150002 are official prototypes. I would have the BR Provincial ones for sure.
Here’s hoping you get one! And yes I think Accurascale or Cavalex will maybe branch out to some DMU’s or more passenger orientated stock. I’m hoping Accurascale branch out to a HST as I’d love to get my hands on the more detailed version from Hornby but can’t justify the cost
There's collaboration and then more corporate espionage nonsense which I think is more what Simon was aiming at saying. With regards to why cavalex haven't "got the same treatment" two parties involved, could easily be them not engaging, both parties are capable of offering the open hand to work together and of shunning it. Unless either states what happened we don't know. People who want hornby will buy hornby, people who want accurascale or cavalex will go that way.
Hi Sam, You make some good points obviously I have just been assuming now olive branch was extended but I guess unless confirmed we won’t know for definite. And yes you’re quite right people will go for what they want or can afford. I can see the Accurascale DC version doing pretty well as it’s considerably cheaper than the others. My predictions are Hornby’s sound models will sell very well but the DC version will be in the sales by the end of next year as I can’t see anyone paying full price when the newer tooled models are both cheaper. Thanks for the comment 😊👍
@YorkshireRailways to some degree it isn't even about affordability, there are people out there who like a layout to have a seemless look, if you buy a bunch of rolling stock that has broadly the same level of detail and features then anything older or newer can just look out of place next to the rest of the stuff you run. It can be a detrimental thing to buy the latest super fancy tooling in this sense so it doesn't suprise me there are customers for all sorts. Personally, I'd struggle to justify buying the new one only to find most of the rolling stock available left wanting in terms of detail on the same level but that's me and my eyes looking at it. Rather one that looks the part in the context. So many ways people approach modelling and so mang valid reasons for both to be what someone wants
@@Samstrainsofficially that’s something I’d never considered that people wouldn’t want rolling stock and locos to look out of place so would stick to one manufacturer. It’s a great point and something that slipped my mind but I’m sure it does happen 😊👍
I agree that it’s not something that should always happen. However it’s Odd they have extended the olive branch to Rapido yet not to Cavalex and Accurascale especially when their Class 60’s have been in development for ages now 😊
I wonder if Hornby did this because specifically "Isembard Kingdom Brunel" was always in their range, and it seemed like a direct insult for Cavalex to announce that same specific loco?
Hi little Britain, thank you for the comment. I don’t think it’s an insult for Cavalex to announce “Isembard Kingdom Brunel” at the end of the day theirs was announced first. Plus Hornby could have still done it as you say it’s been a staple for their range but did they really need to do Ben Nevis to? There’s many livery options they could have chose 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways I am just guessing as to motivation. Also - If I am not mistaken, the "old" tooling from Hornby was of their "super detailed" moniker, whereas the J52 could not have been mistaken for modern tooling.
@@little_britain who knows, only Hornby do. And yeah I’ve heard their class 60 is super detailed but compared with the new models coming out it seems it’s getting dated. But not to say the Hornby one is bad just maybe a pricing restructure making it a more budget friendly option would be better because right now I’d be going for the new Accurascale version as it’s the cheapest and will be more detailed
@@YorkshireRailways Yes, the pricing is the one thing we can certainly agree makes little sense. I have one of their super-detailed class 31s, and that is an excellent model that I picked up for £60 "nearly new"
Hi, I was gutted when Cavalex pulled the plug on the class 91, Hornby’s offering isn’t that great and lacks so many features the Cavalex would have had, hopefully they will revisit the model and do it justice, class 60 wise I believe the Cavalex model will be better all round but for those on a budget the Accurascale will sell well, Hornby’s class 60 is old and doesn’t compare to its rivals models and they know it, I have a Hornby class 60 in DB Schenker livery that looks a drives very well indeed, I don’t think I need another one to be fair so I’m not that concerned although I did buy a Cavalex class 56 which is superb, thanks for sharing.
Hi Stormmy, I sadly found out about it through TH-cam not realising it had been axed. Then was gutted when I started trying to find one. And I’d be interested to know what you don’t like about the Hornby models as I’m quite a fan of it. But hopefully give a few years Cavalex will go back to it as seems most of the Hornby ones have sold out now so there will be a gap soon. And great predictions for how the new Class 60’s will be. I’m going in blind not having any locos from either Cavalex or Accurascale which I will be looking forward to receiving early next year 😊👍
Hornby class 60 no 60081 lsambard kingdom Brunel was limited edition model for rail express magazine model number 15 i have it in my collection Accurascale class60 are name cavalex class 60 are not have Accurascale on pre-orders
I imagine they moved the tooling over when they moved manufacturing. Not the first time they’ve done re runs since 2005 I imagine more have come out of China than the UK 😊
Unfortunately Hornby are trading on thier brand heritage and using that as much as they can to steal sales and make as much profit as they can. By competing at the same price point as newcomers to the market I expect they feel Hornby shouldn't need to do that, thus they are charging a premium for a well known brand. Its a shame as we all know that ageing models cannot be compared to new ones, but when you over price old models you alienate the customer. You are right, there's a better balance to be had with price and quality. I like hornby but lean more and more to thier railroad range due to affordability.
Hi thanks for the comment. I think you’re very right maybe they are relying solely on brand name. Does seem a shame as I recon if they retired their ageing model and put it in the railroad range at a reasonable price many would buy it I’m sure of it. As you say many rely on it to stay in the hobby and I think Hornby need to realise how important the range is and maybe should add some of their aging fleet into it it would add some new blood to the range. Again thank you for the comment 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways I Guess they are in a bit of a tight spot, the class 60 from what I can see, isn't half bad and certainly for 2005 and today a very good model. Dare I say far too good for Railroad. So I suspect it still belongs in the main range. Investment to downgrade and charge less makes little to no sense. But wholeheartedly agree, if they were really out to capitalise, put aside the arrogance of the branding. Accept it's an old tooling and put it out at a competitive price for what it is, as I say as a Railroad probably an insult but price it appropriately I feel is the message here. The fact 60001 and 60002 are in Rails' sale @ £119.50 speaks volumes (I'm almost tempted as I do like them in triple grey). However it seems to be the way of Hornby, jack up the price when released and then only discount when they have excess stock - possibly why they have almost doubled their unsold inventory at £28m this year! Too much margin chasing per item rather than shifting items quickly. The likes of Accurascale seem to aim to sell out and price competitively to do so.
Hornby's class 60 release makes sense for Hornby. The buzz of Accurascale and Cavalex class 60s will help sell Hornby's. The model has already been designed and sold by adding sound via the TXS HM7000 decoder, uplift's the model. Though, in my opinion, not he the level of the asking price.
Hi Dinmore Junction thanks for the comment. And I agree I think there definitely is a place for the Hornby version but not at the asking price. If it was significantly cheaper it would appeal to a greater audience, certainly for the DCC option it is cheaper but I would be more happy with a bigger gap from Hornby’s 2005 tooling to Accurascale’s price, the tooling costs have been payed for more than enough for the age so could easily knock out a DC version at £120 and the sound version around the £200 mark would be more sensible in my eyes. But like I said in the video time will tell if they sell as I can see the DC versions hitting the sales come next year. 😊👍
A good thought provoking video Harry. Found my way here through Hylton at Proper Chuffed and enjoying your content. On the subject of duplication, I think it's a difficult one for the manufacturers as with the complexity of modern model locomotives, the research and development, tooling and prep starts years in advance of the actual model release. For a variety of reasons, not least of all anti-cartel/collusion avoidance, manufacturers keep details on new projects very close to their chests and although it can be argued that the plethora of potential subjects should ensure these duplications shouldn't occur, it must be remembered that these subjects have to be profitable and therefore appeal to the widest possible market, and it is no surprise that the same subjects are targeted by different manufacturers. That said, a greater collaboration between manufacturers after the public news release of their models to avoid livery/running number duplication should be the order of the day.
Hi thank you for the comment and making your way over, really grateful for Hylton shouting me out. And yes it is true manufactures can’t discuss their upcoming projects in terms of what they’re making and how ect. It’s more the whole Rapido/Hornby collab to ensure they aren’t going to produce the same livery options so they all win. Where as in the case of the class 60 seems Hornby aren’t that generous. That said another commenter did point out that maybe an olive branch was extended but declined by Accurascale or Cavalex and that until more information comes to light we won’t know. Either way it’s a great time to be a modern traction fan in the market for a Class 60 as we have so many to choose from. Again thank you for the comment and hope you enjoy the channel!
All the best,
Harry
Interesting video Harry. I think its a bold play from Hornby to step into this mix, but I suspect most will see sense and go for either Cavalex or Accurascale, especially given Hornby's price point.
@@Proper_Chuffed Hi Hylton thank you so much for the comment means a lot! It has been an interesting year for the Class 60 and I can’t quite figure out why Hornby has come in with the oldest tooling but the highest price? 😂 however their sound models work out a lot better than the new kids on the block. But yeah I predict the newer tooled models from both Accurascale and Cavalex will out sell Hornby’s but who knows might get a good bargain in the sales this time next year.
Cheers,
Harry
Thanks for the video, it prompted me to search the Class 60, I found a local retailer had a Black Friday Sale with a Hornby Class 60 "Steadfast' 60001 on sale for AUD241, about GBP124 with free postage. I snapped it up. As a fixed income modeller this is my new strategy, take advantage of the market, over the past months as overstocks have been released I have saved hundreds of dollars on great locos, including Railroad+ models with sound, and the same has been true with rolling stock, so my engine shed and carriage sidings are looking good. I know it won't last, but hey, make hay while the sun shines. ...Drew
Hi Drew,
Glad to hear you’ve managed to pick up a readably priced Hornby Class 60. I have heard good things about the tooling even though it is old. However I wouldn’t be paying the new asking price. Hope you have a great time running it round your layout 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways Thanks, I wouldn't have got it at RRP either, but the 45% discount sealed the deal ...Drew
@@drewsmodelrailwayworld4856 haha yes Drew would be rude not to at that discount 😂
From my observations in regards to the 60081 model. I think Rails and Cavalex models are going to be covering the EWS/GWR early 2000's version as the Hornby model is based on the LSL/GWR version that is part of the 1/1 collection so they may not be duplicating Cavelex Models on that front as such. 60029 however is a duplicate of the limited edition model that Cavelex/Rail Exclusive as doing. From my understanding, Hornby are trying their best to avoid duplicates with their models as the Loadhaul livery is as the following. Hornby are doing 60008 "Gypsum Queen II" in its 1997 livery. Accurascale are doing 60007 in the mid 1990's Loadhaul livery and Cavelex Models are doing 60059 as Swinden Dalesman. All are based on the mid 1990's I believe and will have the red/white warning flashes. Personally I don't mind the Cavalex Models Class 60 having a C4 drive system as Heljan and Piko has used the C4 drive system for years and it helps better on uneven tracks. I have the new Cavalex Models 60062 and I really love it!
Hi Thank you for the comment and really in-depth knowledge! It will be interesting to see the differences when all three come to reality to see if there’s any noticeable differences. Glad you’re enjoying your Cavalex class 60 I presume you have gone for steel on steel? I am still waiting on mine but cannot wait! 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways Yes mate. That's the one. I call it the "Leopard" livery as it kind of hints at a Leopard pattern in some ways. My 60062 is non sound because like with 60100 in DB I am getting from Accurascale, it will be display only as I am more of a BR man. Also besides 60098 from Cavalex/Rails with sound I want, I am also after Transrail 60097 that is another special commission. Here is a tip. Look in the manual for the clues and then hunt them down as I want to secure one before they all sell out. As 60097 is non standard too. All the best mate. Peter.
Sounds like you have quite the collection coming Peter. I unfortunately missed the postman yesterday as I had gone out for a friends birthday and lone behold the good old postie came ten minutes after I’d left and I missed the ring door bell as I was driving. Gutted! It’s being rescheduled for tomorrow so fingers crossed 😊👍
All the best my friend!
Harry
@@YorkshireRailways No problem. I have covered my model of 60062 and I love the quality. You won't be disappointed I am sure. I am just eagerly awaiting 60098 to come in stock and I am going to pounce on it like a Lion. I mainly do BR nowadays so that it mostly my era. Just imagine if Cavalex Models did a Class 150/0 1984 3 car set. Only 150001 and 150002 are official prototypes. I would have the BR Provincial ones for sure.
Here’s hoping you get one! And yes I think Accurascale or Cavalex will maybe branch out to some DMU’s or more passenger orientated stock. I’m hoping Accurascale branch out to a HST as I’d love to get my hands on the more detailed version from Hornby but can’t justify the cost
There's collaboration and then more corporate espionage nonsense which I think is more what Simon was aiming at saying. With regards to why cavalex haven't "got the same treatment" two parties involved, could easily be them not engaging, both parties are capable of offering the open hand to work together and of shunning it. Unless either states what happened we don't know.
People who want hornby will buy hornby, people who want accurascale or cavalex will go that way.
Hi Sam,
You make some good points obviously I have just been assuming now olive branch was extended but I guess unless confirmed we won’t know for definite.
And yes you’re quite right people will go for what they want or can afford. I can see the Accurascale DC version doing pretty well as it’s considerably cheaper than the others. My predictions are Hornby’s sound models will sell very well but the DC version will be in the sales by the end of next year as I can’t see anyone paying full price when the newer tooled models are both cheaper.
Thanks for the comment 😊👍
@YorkshireRailways to some degree it isn't even about affordability, there are people out there who like a layout to have a seemless look, if you buy a bunch of rolling stock that has broadly the same level of detail and features then anything older or newer can just look out of place next to the rest of the stuff you run. It can be a detrimental thing to buy the latest super fancy tooling in this sense so it doesn't suprise me there are customers for all sorts. Personally, I'd struggle to justify buying the new one only to find most of the rolling stock available left wanting in terms of detail on the same level but that's me and my eyes looking at it. Rather one that looks the part in the context.
So many ways people approach modelling and so mang valid reasons for both to be what someone wants
@@Samstrainsofficially that’s something I’d never considered that people wouldn’t want rolling stock and locos to look out of place so would stick to one manufacturer. It’s a great point and something that slipped my mind but I’m sure it does happen 😊👍
Unification could be a good thing. But it could also be an absolute disaster!!
I agree that it’s not something that should always happen. However it’s Odd they have extended the olive branch to Rapido yet not to Cavalex and Accurascale especially when their Class 60’s have been in development for ages now 😊
I wonder if Hornby did this because specifically "Isembard Kingdom Brunel" was always in their range, and it seemed like a direct insult for Cavalex to announce that same specific loco?
Hi little Britain, thank you for the comment. I don’t think it’s an insult for Cavalex to announce “Isembard Kingdom Brunel” at the end of the day theirs was announced first. Plus Hornby could have still done it as you say it’s been a staple for their range but did they really need to do Ben Nevis to? There’s many livery options they could have chose 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways I am just guessing as to motivation. Also - If I am not mistaken, the "old" tooling from Hornby was of their "super detailed" moniker, whereas the J52 could not have been mistaken for modern tooling.
@@little_britain who knows, only Hornby do. And yeah I’ve heard their class 60 is super detailed but compared with the new models coming out it seems it’s getting dated. But not to say the Hornby one is bad just maybe a pricing restructure making it a more budget friendly option would be better because right now I’d be going for the new Accurascale version as it’s the cheapest and will be more detailed
@@YorkshireRailways Yes, the pricing is the one thing we can certainly agree makes little sense. I have one of their super-detailed class 31s, and that is an excellent model that I picked up for £60 "nearly new"
@@little_britain time will tell, I predict many will be in the sales by the end of next year. And wow that’s a great bargain 😊
Hi, I was gutted when Cavalex pulled the plug on the class 91, Hornby’s offering isn’t that great and lacks so many features the Cavalex would have had, hopefully they will revisit the model and do it justice, class 60 wise I believe the Cavalex model will be better all round but for those on a budget the Accurascale will sell well, Hornby’s class 60 is old and doesn’t compare to its rivals models and they know it, I have a Hornby class 60 in DB Schenker livery that looks a drives very well indeed, I don’t think I need another one to be fair so I’m not that concerned although I did buy a Cavalex class 56 which is superb, thanks for sharing.
Hi Stormmy, I sadly found out about it through TH-cam not realising it had been axed. Then was gutted when I started trying to find one. And I’d be interested to know what you don’t like about the Hornby models as I’m quite a fan of it. But hopefully give a few years Cavalex will go back to it as seems most of the Hornby ones have sold out now so there will be a gap soon.
And great predictions for how the new Class 60’s will be. I’m going in blind not having any locos from either Cavalex or Accurascale which I will be looking forward to receiving early next year 😊👍
Hornby class 60 no 60081 lsambard kingdom Brunel was limited edition model for rail express magazine model number 15 i have it in my collection Accurascale class60 are name cavalex class 60 are not have Accurascale on pre-orders
Hi thanks for the comment. Which Accurascale Class 60 have you gone for? Be interested to know 😊👍
How are they going to do this rerun now they’ve moved manufacturing to China?!!
I imagine they moved the tooling over when they moved manufacturing. Not the first time they’ve done re runs since 2005 I imagine more have come out of China than the UK 😊
Unfortunately Hornby are trading on thier brand heritage and using that as much as they can to steal sales and make as much profit as they can. By competing at the same price point as newcomers to the market I expect they feel Hornby shouldn't need to do that, thus they are charging a premium for a well known brand. Its a shame as we all know that ageing models cannot be compared to new ones, but when you over price old models you alienate the customer. You are right, there's a better balance to be had with price and quality. I like hornby but lean more and more to thier railroad range due to affordability.
Hi thanks for the comment. I think you’re very right maybe they are relying solely on brand name. Does seem a shame as I recon if they retired their ageing model and put it in the railroad range at a reasonable price many would buy it I’m sure of it. As you say many rely on it to stay in the hobby and I think Hornby need to realise how important the range is and maybe should add some of their aging fleet into it it would add some new blood to the range. Again thank you for the comment 😊👍
@@YorkshireRailways I Guess they are in a bit of a tight spot, the class 60 from what I can see, isn't half bad and certainly for 2005 and today a very good model. Dare I say far too good for Railroad. So I suspect it still belongs in the main range. Investment to downgrade and charge less makes little to no sense. But wholeheartedly agree, if they were really out to capitalise, put aside the arrogance of the branding. Accept it's an old tooling and put it out at a competitive price for what it is, as I say as a Railroad probably an insult but price it appropriately I feel is the message here. The fact 60001 and 60002 are in Rails' sale @ £119.50 speaks volumes (I'm almost tempted as I do like them in triple grey). However it seems to be the way of Hornby, jack up the price when released and then only discount when they have excess stock - possibly why they have almost doubled their unsold inventory at £28m this year! Too much margin chasing per item rather than shifting items quickly. The likes of Accurascale seem to aim to sell out and price competitively to do so.