I really love those lectures. For anyone who think they can just write one thing , send it over and make it big. Think again. This is a passion, you got it or you dont.
All these “pearls of wisdom” are interesting and productive. But I have the impression that they can also discourage those who have less perseverance. To say that there will be a lot of rejection, that you have to travel and gain experience, etc... all these are things that are good to hear. But ultimately, all that needs to be encouraged is to simply sit down at your desk, in front of a piece of paper or a computer screen, and write. And that's all. Write, live life, read, watch movies or TV series, learn from others and simply write. Have fun. You'll make your own experience and learn your own things along the way. This is what should be encouraged.
At 23-24 min: YES, Goyer literally says it! That level of sincere and real writing and wanting to give a character a real arc, THAT is why Man of Steel is a brilliant reboot. And this gives me so much faith its sequels are going to show how great Man of Steel is as a setup film.
Man of Steel and Dark Knight terribly written and have really bad impact on industry. Goyer was a good writer back in Blade 1 and Dark City times, but since Blade 2 and definetly since Blade 3 he jumped the shark, became lazy or just stupid and every of his script started to make no sence at all, he cant even write a backstory. What was the backstory of Jocker? There was not any! What was backstory of Bane? What was backstory of Zod? What was backstory of Drakula from Blade 3? Man does not give a crack about vital details, and he fucks up every original source. He mad Superman and Batman basicly same dark shit, one just overpowered, and made a really terrible backstories for Superman and Batman.
***** And who are you? Oh yeah, another freaking loser bashing a successful screenwriter, who even has a well-received tv series, Da Vinci's Demons: www.imdb.com/title/tt2094262/
***** "What was the backstory of Jocker? There was not any!" If you're talking about Joker ... you're seriously missing the point. It was important that he didn't have a backstory. His anonymity is one of the most enduring and iconic things about the character. Even in the comics, nobody knows who the hell he is. "What was backstory of Bane? What was backstory of Zod?" Maybe you ought to actually watch the movies. Because they actually, quite heavy-handedly, delivered these backstories in the movies every chance they got. With straightforward exposition through un-subtle dialogue. I don't know how you could miss 'em. "What was backstory of Drakula from Blade 3?" He's frickin' Dracula. What more backstory do you need? Not even in Bram Stoker's novel did Dracula have a backstory any more detailed than "he's a mysterious vampire who can seriously fuck shit up".
***** Ok everything you said is just your opinion, majority of the people of the love the dark knight trilogy and as do I. Firstly what bad impact had it made on the industry? Those movies took the superhero genre and turned it to something else, those movies are what made people care about batman again , because before that we had the atrocity that was batman and robin, and the same goes for Man of Steel, people are caring about superman again. Now you also raised some questions and I'm gonna answer them for. Now you said the 'jocker' had no backstory,firstly I don't know who the hell your taking about, so I'm gonna assume its the joker. Have ever read a batman comic? He has no backstory, we don't know his real name or age, and thats the point of him he is insane to point you don't need to know his motivations, I know you can argue the killing joke but that was never his official origin, in the book he says he remembers his accident in so many ways he doesn't even know whats real. And about bane, we had his origin in the 3rd film about the prison, fine we didn't find out his real name, I'll give you that. But with Zod? Dude every other version of zod was a mindless villain who just wanted to destroy everything, he had no purpose, but in Man of Steel had a purpose and reason to what he was doing. Goyer took that one note character and gave him depth and complexity which we have never seen before, and because of that you understand why Zod does what he does. But this all my opinion its great that you have yours :)
A massive thank you to David S. Goyer and BAFTA Guru for this fantastic lecture and interview. Goyer has to be one of the top three most inspiring screenwriters of the 21st century.
Death Warrant is underrated, it is fucking classic ! Goyer is one of the top writers in hollywood. It is actually one of the best Van Damme films.. that and Universal Soldier and Timecop.
i think he's talking from his perspective, naturally, s a hollywood writer. I think that if you aren't aspiring to be a hollywood writer or a BFI writer, th international scene is incredibly inspiring and expansive-with the advent o more accessible technologies people are making films all over the world in the most unexpected places. Hell, it doesn't take much to see this. Just look the fucking incredible films to come out of 2019; the orphanage, portrait of a lady on fire, woman at war, beanpole, the truth, bacurau. I mean, fuck this is a better time than any to make films! it seems the more profit-driven entities are shifting toward television.
Insightful interview. I have long been a fan of Superman and Batman, and his versions were true to the spirit of both but modernized with a new fresh vision. I loved it. Thanks BAFTA for the interview. I look forward to more.
I loved Man of Steel, and have painstakingly defended the decision to have Superman kill Zod. But Goyer's reasoning for doing it is messy and all over the place. This "crutch" that exists "outside of the narrative" that he speaks of is there for a reason. I'm surprised that, with the 10 things that he's narrowed down Superman always is, "always finding a way" (especially, when it comes to not killing his enemies) doesn't seem to be one of them. It exists outside of the narrative because the character is bigger than any single storyline's narrative, and him not killing has been held to be iconically synonymous with the character for at least twenty-plus years now. Story after story have been written focusing on Superman's dilemma of whether or not to kill. He always either doesn't kill (What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?), or kills and stops or damn nearly stops being Superman (Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow; John Byrne's "The Man of Steel"). Several generations of writers have solidified the idea that killing his enemies is an act not worthy of Superman, so it is extremely off-putting that in this new cinematic franchise, Superman "Begins", so to speak, by killing someone. Besides, elsewhere in Man of Steel's story, Goyer seems to abandon the whole "no crutch from outside the narrative" rule anyway. He keeps saying that Superman has to hold himself to a higher standard because people idolize him, but that is an idea of Superman that is coming from outside MoS's narrative. There is nothing in the movie to make us believe without the shadow of a doubt that people will idolize him. If anything, all the destruction that he was part of, have opened up Lex Luthor gaining momentum in instilling fear of the "alien" among the human population. And also, a big part of what makes it okay, for me, that Superman killed Zod is because John Byrne did it in the comics in the 80s, which was something external to MoS' narrative that they obviously drew from anyway.
He's also retro-fitting his answer to suit the criticism. He didn't dramatise the effect he says it had on Superman in Man of Steel so it makes his explanation redundant. Saying it'll be fixed/explained in future films is a cop-out. I'm fine with him killing someone but he needed to show its effect in the film it happened, not some theoretical sequel.
goddamn zordan The decision to kill should've been dealt with in the first film otherwise it means nothing to the story of the film. A sequel is a different film, a new story.
goddamn zordan Well, yes, that much is obvious. But like Thomas Carnacki said, it's not enough; a giant shocker like that should have a purpose and merit within the context of the SAME movie it appeared in, not any hypothetical sequel that the average moviegoer, as an individual, may or may not know is coming.
So true on what his said about TV shows. Nowadays television shows are getting better and better. I think tv shows have a better advantage then movies, which is building characters and stories for those characters. Another thing I've been noticing is that popular tv shows that everyone talks about; are popular because they have great and interesting characters that you grow a strong connection for. And when you look at movies that do great in the box office, lots of them are garbage. Because people don't go to the theater for a good story with good characters, but they go for pointless action, stupid humor, some sex and explosions every second.
I don't know about Superman, but Batman's must be the following: 1. I'm Batman. Thou shalt not have other Batmans before me. 2. Thou shalt not take the name of your Batman in vain. For the Batman will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. 3. Remember to keep holy the Bat-day. Same bat-time, same bat-channel. 4. Honor your father and your mother. Some of us don't have any anymore. 5. Thou shalt not kill. 6. Thou shalt not steal. Unless I tell you to. 7. No guns. 8. Thou shalt not commit adultery. 9. But, by all means, have as many women as you want as a billionaire playboy. 10. Swear to meeeeeeeee!
"If you are a 'real' writer, why would you want to write for movies or television? Even writing books, why would you want to write for an 'audience'? Proust, Joyce ... write for yourself, unless it is really about money & fame?" said the guy writing on youtube.
@ Dan Calvisi Yes. It would be great to read Goyer's "Ten Sticky Elements of Batman & Superman". Mr Goyer, if you were reading this, why not tweet those ten elements?
I admit, I have issues with Man of Steel's structure and Pa Kent's "lessons". But I thought the film had some redeeming qualities. And Superman did kill Zod in the comics. Honestly, my favorite part of this entire lecture was hearing that Christopher Nolan also procrastinates.
A movie is a collaboration. Director, screenwriter and producer work together to make the best possible movie they had planned. Script constantly changes during production e.g Ben Affleck writing on the set of BvS. Screenwriter gets note from the studio or director to change things in the script and they have to obey it or else they get fire. It's rarely the screenwriter's fault.
Although I think that Superman killing Zod was a good and necessary choice, the way it was executed in the film was bad. We don't see it have an actual effect on Superman's character, all he does is scream and cry in Lois' arms for a few seconds. In the next scene, he's acting all normal and happy as if he hadn't just killed the last member of his species and that Metropolis wasn't obliterated.
Well think of it this way, the very next scene is him trying to convince the general that he is trustworthy, so if he appeared angry or unstable in subtle way, he might give the impression to the people that he is dangerous and out of control, which he isn't. He is a potential danger yes, but we see he has been able control and restrain himself despite how he feels. I think that the sequel will explore the repercussions of his actions, not just through the public of Metropolis but psychologically as well on how Superman feels about it. At least I hope they explore that.
AWESOME! ...... but you didn't honor Superman's Clark Kent identity, did you? :-) He walks into a journalism job with ZERO training at the end of the movie. That alone.
Brade Bronson Johnathan and Christopher Nolan where the screenwriters for TDK and TDKR, Goyer was only a writer for Batman Begins and only early drafts Nolan finished that script.
My god this guy writes terrible scripts. I was crushed when I found out he's writing the new Terminator movie. Just look at his Rotten Tomatoes track record, just terrible... why you would hire this guy for anything is beyond me.
+kelvin xiao He disrespected to both Marvel (she-hulk) and DC fans (Martian Manhunter). He's a fucking asshole that I will never support, when was the last time he ever apologized?
I really love those lectures. For anyone who think they can just write one thing , send it over and make it big. Think again. This is a passion, you got it or you dont.
Extremely helpful for any aspiring writer. Thank you for the upload!
All these “pearls of wisdom” are interesting and productive. But I have the impression that they can also discourage those who have less perseverance. To say that there will be a lot of rejection, that you have to travel and gain experience, etc... all these are things that are good to hear. But ultimately, all that needs to be encouraged is to simply sit down at your desk, in front of a piece of paper or a computer screen, and write. And that's all. Write, live life, read, watch movies or TV series, learn from others and simply write. Have fun. You'll make your own experience and learn your own things along the way. This is what should be encouraged.
4:42 so that was where this coming from
Alfred : why do we fall sir?
alfred : so that we can learn to pick ourselves up
I love hearing storytellers tell their own stories. This is so inspiring. Serious moxie, that guy.
At 23-24 min: YES, Goyer literally says it! That level of sincere and real writing and wanting to give a character a real arc, THAT is why Man of Steel is a brilliant reboot. And this gives me so much faith its sequels are going to show how great Man of Steel is as a setup film.
Man of Steel and Dark Knight terribly written and have really bad impact on industry. Goyer was a good writer back in Blade 1 and Dark City times, but since Blade 2 and definetly since Blade 3 he jumped the shark, became lazy or just stupid and every of his script started to make no sence at all, he cant even write a backstory. What was the backstory of Jocker? There was not any! What was backstory of Bane? What was backstory of Zod? What was backstory of Drakula from Blade 3? Man does not give a crack about vital details, and he fucks up every original source. He mad Superman and Batman basicly same dark shit, one just overpowered, and made a really terrible backstories for Superman and Batman.
***** And who are you? Oh yeah, another freaking loser bashing a successful screenwriter, who even has a well-received tv series, Da Vinci's Demons: www.imdb.com/title/tt2094262/
***** "What was the backstory of Jocker? There was not any!"
If you're talking about Joker ... you're seriously missing the point. It was important that he didn't have a backstory. His anonymity is one of the most enduring and iconic things about the character. Even in the comics, nobody knows who the hell he is.
"What was backstory of Bane? What was backstory of Zod?"
Maybe you ought to actually watch the movies. Because they actually, quite heavy-handedly, delivered these backstories in the movies every chance they got. With straightforward exposition through un-subtle dialogue. I don't know how you could miss 'em.
"What was backstory of Drakula from Blade 3?"
He's frickin' Dracula. What more backstory do you need? Not even in Bram Stoker's novel did Dracula have a backstory any more detailed than "he's a mysterious vampire who can seriously fuck shit up".
***** Ok everything you said is just your opinion, majority of the people of the love the dark knight trilogy and as do I. Firstly what bad impact had it made on the industry? Those movies took the superhero genre and turned it to something else, those movies are what made people care about batman again , because before that we had the atrocity that was batman and robin, and the same goes for Man of Steel, people are caring about superman again.
Now you also raised some questions and I'm gonna answer them for. Now you said the 'jocker' had no backstory,firstly I don't know who the hell your taking about, so I'm gonna assume its the joker. Have ever read a batman comic? He has no backstory, we don't know his real name or age, and thats the point of him he is insane to point you don't need to know his motivations, I know you can argue the killing joke but that was never his official origin, in the book he says he remembers his accident in so many ways he doesn't even know whats real.
And about bane, we had his origin in the 3rd film about the prison, fine we didn't find out his real name, I'll give you that. But with Zod? Dude every other version of zod was a mindless villain who just wanted to destroy everything, he had no purpose, but in Man of Steel had a purpose and reason to what he was doing. Goyer took that one note character and gave him depth and complexity which we have never seen before, and because of that you understand why Zod does what he does. But this all my opinion its great that you have yours :)
Spawn came before Blade, by a year - and that was the first Anti-Hero film that did well with a black actor.
Good advice if your goal is to write shows that never win awards and are canceled early.
Why the jokes and disparaging comments at Van Damme's expense if this is the person responsible for kick-starting your career?
*round*kick-starting his career. :)
and Wesley Snipes skyrocketing it before David S Goyer crucified Wesley Snipes
A massive thank you to David S. Goyer and BAFTA Guru for this fantastic lecture and interview. Goyer has to be one of the top three most inspiring screenwriters of the 21st century.
Death Warrant is underrated, it is fucking classic ! Goyer is one of the top writers in hollywood. It is actually one of the best Van Damme films.. that and Universal Soldier and Timecop.
Great episode. A lot of great info. Thanks for posting.
Love this guy.
i think he's talking from his perspective, naturally, s a hollywood writer. I think that if you aren't aspiring to be a hollywood writer or a BFI writer, th international scene is incredibly inspiring and expansive-with the advent o more accessible technologies people are making films all over the world in the most unexpected places. Hell, it doesn't take much to see this. Just look the fucking incredible films to come out of 2019; the orphanage, portrait of a lady on fire, woman at war, beanpole, the truth, bacurau. I mean, fuck this is a better time than any to make films! it seems the more profit-driven entities are shifting toward television.
Insightful interview. I have long been a fan of Superman and Batman, and his versions were true to the spirit of both but modernized with a new fresh vision. I loved it. Thanks BAFTA for the interview. I look forward to more.
I loved Man of Steel, and have painstakingly defended the decision to have Superman kill Zod. But Goyer's reasoning for doing it is messy and all over the place.
This "crutch" that exists "outside of the narrative" that he speaks of is there for a reason. I'm surprised that, with the 10 things that he's narrowed down Superman always is, "always finding a way" (especially, when it comes to not killing his enemies) doesn't seem to be one of them. It exists outside of the narrative because the character is bigger than any single storyline's narrative, and him not killing has been held to be iconically synonymous with the character for at least twenty-plus years now. Story after story have been written focusing on Superman's dilemma of whether or not to kill. He always either doesn't kill (What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way?), or kills and stops or damn nearly stops being Superman (Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow; John Byrne's "The Man of Steel"). Several generations of writers have solidified the idea that killing his enemies is an act not worthy of Superman, so it is extremely off-putting that in this new cinematic franchise, Superman "Begins", so to speak, by killing someone.
Besides, elsewhere in Man of Steel's story, Goyer seems to abandon the whole "no crutch from outside the narrative" rule anyway. He keeps saying that Superman has to hold himself to a higher standard because people idolize him, but that is an idea of Superman that is coming from outside MoS's narrative. There is nothing in the movie to make us believe without the shadow of a doubt that people will idolize him. If anything, all the destruction that he was part of, have opened up Lex Luthor gaining momentum in instilling fear of the "alien" among the human population. And also, a big part of what makes it okay, for me, that Superman killed Zod is because John Byrne did it in the comics in the 80s, which was something external to MoS' narrative that they obviously drew from anyway.
He's also retro-fitting his answer to suit the criticism. He didn't dramatise the effect he says it had on Superman in Man of Steel so it makes his explanation redundant. Saying it'll be fixed/explained in future films is a cop-out. I'm fine with him killing someone but he needed to show its effect in the film it happened, not some theoretical sequel.
I think that he killed in the first movie/first day of being superman to create that non killing rule for future...
goddamn zordan The decision to kill should've been dealt with in the first film otherwise it means nothing to the story of the film. A sequel is a different film, a new story.
THOMAS CARNACKI yep yep as well as the city destruction and now Superman has the reasoning for always taking the battles away from the city.
goddamn zordan Well, yes, that much is obvious. But like Thomas Carnacki said, it's not enough; a giant shocker like that should have a purpose and merit within the context of the SAME movie it appeared in, not any hypothetical sequel that the average moviegoer, as an individual, may or may not know is coming.
So true on what his said about TV shows. Nowadays television shows are getting better and better. I think tv shows have a better advantage then movies, which is building characters and stories for those characters. Another thing I've been noticing is that popular tv shows that everyone talks about; are popular because they have great and interesting characters that you grow a strong connection for. And when you look at movies that do great in the box office, lots of them are garbage. Because people don't go to the theater for a good story with good characters, but they go for pointless action, stupid humor, some sex and explosions every second.
Really good. Looking forward to the other lectures.
I came here for insights and inspiration, but now I just want to hear David S. Goyer talk about Jean Claude van Damme for 2h.
is there a longer version of this interview?
Good question. BAFTA, would you please upload the longer version?
***** Ok. Thanks for that info :)
I have yet to see a single movie that Goyer was a part of that was good.
The Dark Knight.
+Canadian Muffin As I said, no good movies.
Erick Draven
The Dark Knight was good.
+Canadian Muffin To you but to me it was an insulting piece of shit.
there should be a law on screenwriters who aren't fans of the subject matter to be banned from making screenplays from said subject matter.
There's a Horror Screenplay Contest on 13Horror com which is open now if anyone here is interested.
Great episode, thank you. :)
I ran out and bought a copy of the Blade script after seeing the movie. He has a great screenwriting style
Anyone know what are Goyer's Ten 'Sticky' Elements of Batman and Superman that he insisted they don't change?!!!
I don't know about Superman, but Batman's must be the following:
1. I'm Batman. Thou shalt not have other Batmans before me.
2. Thou shalt not take the name of your Batman in vain. For the Batman will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Bat-day. Same bat-time, same bat-channel.
4. Honor your father and your mother. Some of us don't have any anymore.
5. Thou shalt not kill.
6. Thou shalt not steal. Unless I tell you to.
7. No guns.
8. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
9. But, by all means, have as many women as you want as a billionaire playboy.
10. Swear to meeeeeeeee!
"If you are a 'real' writer, why would you want to write for movies or television? Even writing books, why would you want to write for an 'audience'? Proust, Joyce ... write for yourself, unless it is really about money & fame?"
said the guy writing on youtube.
@ Dan Calvisi Yes. It would be great to read Goyer's "Ten Sticky Elements of Batman & Superman". Mr Goyer, if you were reading this, why not tweet those ten elements?
I admit, I have issues with Man of Steel's structure and Pa Kent's "lessons". But I thought the film had some redeeming qualities. And Superman did kill Zod in the comics. Honestly, my favorite part of this entire lecture was hearing that Christopher Nolan also procrastinates.
Man of Steel is my favorite movie written by Goyer, probably followed by Batman Begins.
Awesome interview :)
david probably reads youtube comments
He ruined BvS :((
.......
true
A movie is a collaboration. Director, screenwriter and producer work together to make the best possible movie they had planned. Script constantly changes during production e.g Ben Affleck writing on the set of BvS. Screenwriter gets note from the studio or director to change things in the script and they have to obey it or else they get fire. It's rarely the screenwriter's fault.
Blazer Hell Okay
Thought they got chis terrio
He's a great screenwriter and a great person, oh how awesome would it be having him as a mentor
+vertuccio1 nope
batman vs superman better be good baby
Hahahahahaha
and She Hulk replied: SHEHULK v. GOYER
I would like to see Goyer write the scripts for a Power Rangers reboot trilogy, an X-men Reboot trilogy, and a Outsiders movie trilogy!
Although I think that Superman killing Zod was a good and necessary choice, the way it was executed in the film was bad. We don't see it have an actual effect on Superman's character, all he does is scream and cry in Lois' arms for a few seconds. In the next scene, he's acting all normal and happy as if he hadn't just killed the last member of his species and that Metropolis wasn't obliterated.
Well think of it this way, the very next scene is him trying to convince the general that he is trustworthy, so if he appeared angry or unstable in subtle way, he might give the impression to the people that he is dangerous and out of control, which he isn't. He is a potential danger yes, but we see he has been able control and restrain himself despite how he feels. I think that the sequel will explore the repercussions of his actions, not just through the public of Metropolis but psychologically as well on how Superman feels about it. At least I hope they explore that.
Haha this dude said Anthony Weiner instead of Matther Weiner.
AWESOME! ...... but you didn't honor Superman's Clark Kent identity, did you? :-)
He walks into a journalism job with ZERO training at the end of the movie.
That alone.
I remember reading in the comics, clark with for a 2 years degree at a community college.
MARTHA
This guy is not a good writer.
The Dark Knight was one of my fav all time Batman flicks. I guess we have diff opinions.
Brade Bronson Johnathan and Christopher Nolan where the screenwriters for TDK and TDKR, Goyer was only a writer for Batman Begins and only early drafts Nolan finished that script.
@@thedude9941 wrong
Yup and neither is chris terrio
?….$$$$
My god this guy writes terrible scripts. I was crushed when I found out he's writing the new Terminator movie. Just look at his Rotten Tomatoes track record, just terrible... why you would hire this guy for anything is beyond me.
A lot of jelly haters in the comments hahaha
He is a good writer but a terrible public speaker. He literally read the whole thing. Awful and so disrespectful to the audience.
+Blue Rabbit He is not good speaker, but it is not disrespectful to the audience. At least, he prepared the lecture well.
+kelvin xiao He disrespected to both Marvel (she-hulk) and DC fans (Martian Manhunter). He's a fucking asshole that I will never support, when was the last time he ever apologized?
+CyberGama same with man of action and joe quesada.
We have the same avi and I thought I commented on this before.
I'm surprised Linkara didn't call him an asshole