The best part of this scene is Lorgar going Joker levels of mad, and backhanding Malchador while in full power armor, sending him flying across the room. They all think he's dead, but he just stands up, summons his staff to him and everyone hears in their minds as he looks up, "He will not listen to me, my Lord..." at which point Guilliman looks down as he knows what's coming as the room is filled with the blinding light of the Emperor.
I'm just reading the end of the first heretic and I thought that scene was a bit dumb cos a raging primarch hits a frail man(yes I get he's malcador and powers but they always stress how powers are of the mind not body) and throws him 20 foot and he's ok. Whole Astartes have killed humans by accident when in power armour. The rest of the scene was good but lore says malcador should have died cos the book literally said lorgar was in an uncontrollable rage and hated malcador at that point. I'm trying to find is there any novel that talks of lorgars trip into the eye coa the novel just says he pretends to go back to the fleet and then "40 years later" i really wanted to read what happened to him in there after hearing about argal tal and ingethel. Edit, can people read all the other comments before asking me the exact same thing someone else just did?
@@Bobbb-f3i you'd think, but Malchador has the best kill streak against Primarchs and he's the dude who froze Horus (pre herecy) in place and threatened to "unmake him" until Horus' brothers convinced Malchador to relent and let him go. The Hero is man shaped, but he's not a normal human and as the other poster said, the levels of power he has let's him define what his body can do. Homie disappeared a whole fucking moon into the warp like it was easy.
@martintodd9944 Malcador could have killed Lorgar. He even knew Lorgar would act out and HOPED he would make the better choice. That's why he spoke in everyone's mind to Big E, so that everyone would understand that Uncle Mal was Lorgars last line of defense.
Rule number one for ANY life form in the galaxy, primarch or not: *DO NOT TOUCH MALACADOR* There’s many ways to piss off the Emperor, attacking the closest thing he has to a brother would get you to the top of that list real quickly.
He finally gets pi$$ed during The Betrayal at Calph- tho... how else would he have survived a Warp-spawned explosion and 10 hours in the semi-vacuum outside the _McCragg's Honor_ without his helm while constantly slaughtering Word Bearers?
@@TheElite1102Later in the same book, it's confirmed that in that moment he actually felt empathy and pity for Lorgar's situation, and was MOSTLY on his side through it all. Even after getting struck. Later, that sense of empathy and fidelity is destroyed at Calth and we see Guilliman truly angry at Lorgar.
There was a scene in The Betrayer where Lorgar and Guilliman fought. Lorgar saw how much Guilliman hated him at that point in time and he realized he imagined it all before. It made him briefly falter and regret how he saw Guilliman before.
@@mariuscatalin5982 except when he's jettisoned out of his spaceship's bridge without a helmet... Then he becomes the Doom Slayer, silently screaming into the void as he tears down all enemies unlucky enough to be standing outside his ship. I always imagine the scene as this: Word Bearers flood the hull on the outside, looking for a way in, and damaging any weapon barrel protuding out of the armor; all is going well, until a shadow crosses over them, forcing them to look up. What they see should not be possible, but it is there: Guilliman, helmetless, drifting onto them from the open void, his face a rictus of a rage-filled scream nobody can hear, but they know is there. I would've shat my pants, honestly.
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0I would accept my death honestly at that point After calth guiliman was MAD Really fuking MAD so mad he would have went toe to toe with Angron if he had the chance
After Calth when they reunite and Lorgar sees what hate truly looks like in Guilliman's eyes he realizes that he was never mocked, never hated, until now
Lorgar has mixed feelings of humiliation,being irrational and anger: Monarchia destroyed by the Ultramarines= his compliance doctrine shattered by the legion with most compliance. That's humiliating as a commander. Big E letting them watch=You shattered my trust and loyalty to you,now watch as I shatter yours. I will have my eyes and ears with you as punishment, a humiliating reminder of what you have done here. Him hitting Malcador and Guilliman= This old man who whispers poison to my god's ears is the reason why my symbol of loyalty and faith crumbled to dust. Andd YOU, PERFECT SON. You are just a prideful commander hiding his glee and toxic righteousness of on HOW TO CONQUER AND GOVERN
@@ondrejurban2634if I remember correctly, he’d actually had a bunch of messages typed up trying to explain things to lorgar properly, but for one reason or another hadn’t been able to dispatch them. He had no malice behind what he and his legion did, he was simply following his father’s orders. It brought him no great joy to lay lorgar and his legion low like they did.
He's got a big soft spot for Lorgar. He's admitted that he and the Big E have talked about it and both of them do, they were pretty sad he fell to Chaos.
@@randomcenturion7264 and then lorgar got his chest crushed by a single punch from guilliman and ALSO lost 1 of his 2 glorianas XD Lorgar at that moment realised in canon that before calth, Guilliman never hated or mocked him
@@randomcenturion7264spoiler: it's not. Ultramarines never recognized battle of calth as over and they will keep it officially going until every Word Bearer is dead
And Lorgar thought this was guilliman being an asshole , oh boy when he saw him again during the Horus heresy he truly realized what actual hate was and that guilliman was trying to be nice the entire time
What books do i need ot read to get this idea. Becasue from what im seen Guilliman was just "following orders" , but didnt seem particularly "nice". Its more of an ambivalence to the pain of others. Like a kid burning ants
"Know No Fear" by Dan Abnett is probably the big one you're thinking of. A nontrivial number of Guilliman's best lines are in there, as well as *that scene* where he recinds all paitence, mercy and brotherhood for Lorgar and the 17th.
Somenthing important to say is that Big G was *despairing* inside. Seeing so much pain in his brothers eyes, but he keep a stoic mask as a way to keep his cool and prevent things from escalating further. He was regretting this but trying to be professional in a way.
Mocking him after his brother last out is a weird way of showing that he was despairing. That's not being stoic, that's being a dick. There could be a little bit of compassion which logar needed
Guilliman as his other brothers is a petulant bastard that will rise after one of his brothers mocking him, this is the proof, I'm sure on his head he said "im atheist and thus Intelligent and Lorgar don't hahaha".
@AmazingAutist Guilliman of all people should have known it, another weird writing choice for HH, it's not like him to not know the nuance of social interactions, he is pretty well adjusted and should have been at the very least sympathetic to Lorgar, or apologise in private.
@@giacomoromano8842 Particularly since we know for a fact Guilliman ends up unhappy about basically everything to do with Monarchia. Though you could also argue "comforting someone who'd just been taught a brutal lesson by a superior" is one *specific* instance G-man would fumble, given his own background. It does feel like a stretch though.
@@AmazingAutistI'm wondering if Guilliman was even intending to mock him at all. Heaven knows that the golden rule is to do unto others as THEY want to be treated, but usually people treat others like how they themselves want to be treated. Guilliman seems to be an individual that working/managing things actually is therapeutic for him. So when he told Lorgar to get to work, he wasn't mocking him, he was suggesting something that makes himself feel better.
“Are you done?” And lorgar wasn’t. In fact, the tantrum would last ten thousand years and cost countless billion their lives. Lives spent frequently in fear and suffering. This moment was when things were on a knife edge and everyone, failed.
Welp if the Emporer wasn't such a selfish, blunt and just straight up idiotic psychopath then everything that happened could've been prevented But Big E holds the crown for both the smartest and dumbest man in 40k for a reason
@@_Chaosnight_Mostly that happens when ADB writes anything but the Chaos viewpoint. If he writes loyalists they become the most pants on head stupid people in existence, if it makes the Loyalists look bad to the extreme chances are that Aaron Dempski-Bowden had a hand in its creation.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8hbut he is right? It’s harsh but it’s the truth, lorgar could have just got 3rd primarch added to the list of primarchs removed from history.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h Maybe Lorgar should have listened when Big E told him to stop with the god nonsense? Nah everyone else are the assholes and Lorgar is absolutely not responsible for the death of the people of Monarchia for disregarding the Emperor's warnings about what would happen if he continued on that path.
@@ackabuli5281 Well yes but there aren't many that cost trillions their lives because of their bad parenting If the Emporer wasn't such a dick then the heresy wouldn't have happened and the Imperium would be fine
But fully understandable why he imagined it. Dude had rocked up and RAZED one of his greatest accomplishments, and was telling him that his God had ordered it. Dude was RATTLED
And it's understandable after such a loss of one of his cities that he loved, and give him and not giving any semblance of any sort of empathy whatsoever yeah, having all of this distress and seeing a neutral face among that stress from the person who burns your City to the ground you would feel kind of mocked. And then Gilman confirmed it by mocking him after logar lashed out
Lorgar was extremely deluded from the day one. “You could not commit cruelties with a smile on your face.” (Not sure if that’s the quote word for word.)
@@Historyfrek4ever what does that have to do with the justifiable anger and the fact that guilliman was being cold and did and sold him, after doing something that would rightfully elicit an emotional response from literally anyone?
@@AmazingAutist Oh the emotional reaction to having your entire live’s work and world view brutally crushed is understandable. I am referring to a) that he thought emperor would approve what he was doing before, when he made it very clear he didn’t, b) that Guilliman in anyway enjoyed the destruction of Monarchia or humiliating his brother. That is a massive misjudgment of Guilliman’s character. He was slashing out and finding anyone else but himself to blame, refusing to acknowledge any accountability for his own actions. (Guilliman could have tried to sympathise or comfort him though , and the Emperor should have recalled Lorgar to Terra.)
Lorgar was too blinded by hate that he failed to see that Roboute wasn't enjoying a second of what he was doing. These were the Emperor's orders and he had to follow them.
Became tragic when you read Know No Fear and learn Guilliman actually resented the Emperor using the Ultramarines as a stick to beat Lorgar with, held no malice against Lorgar and even felt a degree of sympathy for his anger at what happened to Monarchia, and even hoped (unaware that Calth was a trap) that the joint campaign between the Ultramarines and the Word Bearers against Orks would be an opportunity for him and Lorgar to reconcile and for their two legions to put that past ugliness behind them...
It was tragic that Lorgar realized when facing Guilliman after Calth that his brother did not hate him at Monarchia. But he hates him now. Also, Guilliman held (at least in private) the burning of Monarchia, considering it a crime
Is it tragic to think the guy that just burned your world to the ground and then mocked you was being a dick? It seem like the tragic part in all this is that Robot Girly man lacked the integrity he always talked about valuing. Hell I get the "I must follow the order even if i dont agree" thinking (its wrong, but i get it), But how else do you expect someone to take "Are you done with your tantrum" While standing in the literal ashes of his world that YOU just burned.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8hwhich he had no choice to burn and it was the consequences of lorgar own actions, he loved the emporer and put him on such a big pedestal even though his beef was with him he created a strawman in guiliman to hate and lash out at.
@@draketurtle4169 consequences of lorgar thinking that Big E was worthy of worship. Im sure Logar hated them both. Big E for the order, Gman for executing that order. There was enough hate to go around. Again The foundation of Warhammer is the Emperor is a deity. Yet you dont see Robo Goodtime BURNING IT ALL DOWN, AND you see Big E "preforming miracles" for the devout. So we can comfortably say they are hypocrites. So as he was standing in the ashes of his brothers world Girlyman said "Chill out " like it was nothing. Yet the shocker is that Lorgar was supposed to take that as an act of kindness.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h Robute didn't mock Lorgar, even though he clearly should've. Lorgar was always the creator of his own failures, and then blamed said failures on others. It's satisfying how Horus puts him in his place later down the line when he tries to pull shit again.
@@rhoydplaz2853 Given all the alternatives, it is a good thing that the one Primarch capable of winning wars - as opposed to battles - is the way he is. There is no Primarch more capable overall than Guilliman. Better fighters, better Engineers. Better strategists. But none beat Guilliman in overall warfare. Guilliman should have been the Warmaster for The Imperium.
Yeah, I'm the current era books. He does not let loose very often. But when he does... the custodes try to keep up bit he is just combined weilding the Emperors sword, and his power fist in a blur of destruction carving up deamom engines, plague marines etc like their paper. And near in mind, the Custodes, and some of best marines from 10 or so chapters are his honour guard unable to even keep up.
I love the realization once he’s destroyed everything and sees Guilliman again that his brother did truly care in that moment just not in the way he understood, it was seeing his brothers pain at betrayal that made him understand.
And thus the Emperor left, believing to have done the right thing. Meanwhile, the dark gods of the Warp laugh and congratulate the big E for this well-thought-out plan of his. In the meantime, Erebus thinks: "Excellent!".
Big E literally fumbles every ball which would turn the Heresy into nothing. Ask Fulgrim about that funny xeno sword. Recognize that burning monarchia saying this is what a God would do while saying he isn't one. Not telling your one son who could ruin the webeay project about it. Why not let mortarion kill his father. Literally give curze and angron a hug. Give perturabo some part in the imperial palace
@timseidelll "perfect," you could make him merely sub standard as a person and the HH would vanish. Emps has the communication skills of a baked potato.
Lorgar had only imagined that everyone hated and mocked him and its explained the story called the first heretic, he wasn't hated or mocked up until his betrayal and fight with guilliman
Lorgar is a giant titan of a man with a supercomputer for a brain. He has the misfortune of being too easily manipulated because of his compassion and upbringing. Unfortunately being Chaos corrupted my pity well bottomed out somewhere between when he murdered a scribe for a spelling error and when he sent his sons to go and be tortured and soul bound to demons.
@@Novictus And yet he won. The empire is praising the Emperor as a God now, so Lorgar was correct. Also, honestly just ignore everything about Big E, he's a walking oxymoron. Best stories are by far ones that don't dwell on his actions at all. The moment you go 500ft of that giant steaming pile of plot holes all stories begin to suck.
The Emperor made such a colossal mistake trusting this task to a bureaucrat. He should have trusted the Word Bearers censure to Sanguinius, Vulkan or maybe Horus. Guilliman’s stoicism just served to provoke Lorgar. It might have been impossible but I think to bring Lorgar back into the fold he needed a brother with outward empathy and compassion.
not just that, but guiliman was one of the ones present for the burning of monarchia. even if he was only following orders, that resentment was always going to be there even if it was the emperor who was the one who ordered it
Honestly it would have been better to get rid of lorgar altogether instead of trying to bring him back into the fold, I think lorgar was completely justified in his actions against the imperium of man and emperor of mankind.
Logar is such an amazing example of the dangers of fanaticism. His fall forshadowed the decay of the imperium from bastion of reason and pure power, to fear and hate driven ignorance fueled by fanatical worship
And what is the funniest is the fact that the Imperial Truth is a false ideology intended to blind people (ignoring half of the universe is idiotic) and the imperial creed is more true (the emperor against his will became the god of the warp) and when it comes to technical development, it does not matter because the mechanic deals with it anyway.
Bruh, Imperium was built on a lie and Lorgar saw through it, albeit instinctively (being the preacher primarch by birth) and unbeknownst to himself at first
@@meltdown4126 Almost all empires are built on lies so thats a non-starter. There are plenty of primarchs that "saw through the lie" and remained loyal. So thats also a dead point. Preachers are specifically all about telling lies. Preachers require the gullible in order to keep a job. Preachers dont "see through" anything by pure fact that they are the embodiment of spreading lies (often unknowingly).
@@meltdown4126 Bruh every empire has been built on a lie so thats a non-starter. Preachers dont see through lies. They wouldnt be preachers otherwise. A preacher's entire job is to keep people believing a lie. Even if the preacher doesnt think its a lie. So no its not a given that a lie machine would spot a lie. and other primarchs were privy to "the lie" and didnt turn traitor. Sorry but all your points are bunk or moot
"You go *too* far" I know, such Guillimantic pickings are not always appreciated, but i love your content, and wish to see it to continue to be elevated. Please, continue your phenomenal work. I appreciate it most passionately.
The best part here is that.... Guilliman didn't have a answer for Lorgar's question of ultramar, he didn't even take the invitation to stop and show the slightest flicker of empathy. Even if lorgar was having a tantrum here, he was right.
Lore is huge but you do not need to know all of it at once. There's a ton of trilogies for each book series and while background knowledge helps you appreciate the book more you don't need to know it to enjoy the stories. If you want to get into a series read the Night Lords novel, "Soul Hunter". It's what most 40k fans recommend as a starter because it hits all the nuisances fans expect of 40k while not drowning new readers in excess histories/lingo. The times histories do come up its documentary/biography style so you'll be given past lore in tandem with the current plot playing out.
It is VERY vast,but 40k Theories, Leutin09, Weshammer, and Majorkill are all good channels on youtube that cover lore from all throughout the franchise. Leuti09 is especially beginner friendly and explains things in a very clear, concise manner. Would definetly reccomend you start with him
@onnajy1915 soul hunter aye? You know. 40k did the impossible. It got me so invested i wanted to play the board game... an I think board games are boring as shit. Tho that game looks complicated tbh. But back on track yeah I'll have to look into soul hunter
I love at nuceria when lorgar finally sees Guilliman again during his shadow crusade, lorgar realizes he was blindly lashing out in this moment and was totally wrong. Guilliman wasn’t angry or mocking here, he was just being Guilliman. It’s on nuceria when lorgar sees what an angry and mocking Guilliman really looks like. As Guilliman nearly kills lorgar in his anger.
Lorgar fucks over the imperium by creating the cult of chaos. He also fucks over chaos by creating the cult of the emperor. This man literally cant help himself from hurting whatever side he fights for, Lorgar is the ultimate fail-son.
If only the big E realised the hypocrisy of calling out his general and son he CREATED for worshipping him like a god when he lets the mechanicus do the exact same thing… yea they have quality equipment he needed but I think he also needed that general and legion of supersoldiers.
We NEED this scene in the Amazon show as a kind of flashback, just hundreds of super powerful warriors with guns raised in such a tense situation. Being broken by an old man reliant on a stick
For some reason I imagined Lorgar pushing Guilliman like an angry kid and Roubute struggling to stand like a turtle flipped on its shell while their armies watched them with an uncomfortable silence.
Tbh I think this is one of those times when ahowing Lorgar some visible sympathy would have helped. Guillimane, being his usual stoic self, just made Lorgar go crazier as he felt that no one even cared how he felt or what they had done to him.
I feel like the way the Emperor handled this event, basically made any idea of the Primarchs seeing each other as brothers die. Not only did he show a clear preference, he also destroyed the "equal" level they had with each other. The warp didn't need to exist for the Horus Heresy to be inevitable.
What I find awesome was the instant rise from the astartes, guns aimed at their fellow marines, ready to go full civil war with one word. Really hits home the absolute devotion and respect they carried for their Primarchs
Lorgar tantrums create the Horus heresy and effects the galaxy even ten thousand years later, guilliman only return recently after being getting his ass kicked and almost killed by fulgrim not really that long in the aftermath of the Horus heresy
Love the nuance here, Guilliman is uncomfortable, unsure, possibly questioning why the Emperor chose him for this, so he chooses language that is emotionless, trying to keep things calm, but this is exactly what Lorgar despises about him but Lorgar is too emotional to take himself out of the situation and see why Guilliman is doing it.
Im running thought this comment section trying to figure out How Lorgar is the dick in this interaction. RG did an emotional thing and then used emotionless words when talk about it. Outside of mind reading, how else would you take it other than "He doesn't care that he just destroyed my world ".
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h i dont think people call him a dick for this interaction, more weak or not composed enough... not realising what the emperor + RG did would be the same as burning down a place of EXTREME religious value in the name of the god that shrine/temple was built to and telling the lead priest to fucking watch the fireshow that was about to start.
@beastofthemount414 I have to ask. How is that weak ? You watch a dude do a bunch of magical stuff. He calls himself the ruler of all man kind. He came to you're world and when he met lorgar, he allowed his religion to remain....then came back a few years later and burned it all down. WTF. Then a few years later after all this you watch as he proforms miracles for the sisters and is without a doubt, a religious figure all while the guy that destroyed you're world for that crime is fine just watching as world's worship. If it was important enough to burn a world, surly that doesn't change....unless it was just an F you to Lorgar.
If he had merely spoken to lorgar about what it would be like if Calth was destroyed, it all could have been avoided He just needed a moment of empathy, that is all
To be fair to Lorgar, he just saw one of his greatest cities razed to the ground and his brother is like "damn dude, stop overeacting and go back to work for the guy that told me to do it."
Gulliman's words did NOT help the situation. Worst things to do to an emotional person you want to calm down is be avoidant or dismissive of their feelings. Gulliman did both, then went further to call Lorgar's outburst a tantrum. Terrible play from Gulliman, definitely could've been more sympathetic to his brother
I never considered Lorgar to have a gruff voice. Remember, he's charisma incarnate, maybe even moreso than his brother, Horus. I think the narrator in "The First Heretic" book did a good job with Lorgar's voice.
And then when they truly fought, lorgar realized... gulliman was right. It was his imagination. Because right there, right in front of him, he saw gulliman angry. And it terrifed him. His hate... was wrong. But his fear now wasnt.
Fear? Lorgar could have killed him there you know. The only reason he hadn't is A) He understood that there were no enjoyment on Guilimans side in burning Monarchia B) Wasting time on killing blueberry would mean no big warpfuckery for all the small blueberries
The best part of this scene is Lorgar going Joker levels of mad, and backhanding Malchador while in full power armor, sending him flying across the room. They all think he's dead, but he just stands up, summons his staff to him and everyone hears in their minds as he looks up, "He will not listen to me, my Lord..." at which point Guilliman looks down as he knows what's coming as the room is filled with the blinding light of the Emperor.
I'm just reading the end of the first heretic and I thought that scene was a bit dumb cos a raging primarch hits a frail man(yes I get he's malcador and powers but they always stress how powers are of the mind not body) and throws him 20 foot and he's ok. Whole Astartes have killed humans by accident when in power armour. The rest of the scene was good but lore says malcador should have died cos the book literally said lorgar was in an uncontrollable rage and hated malcador at that point. I'm trying to find is there any novel that talks of lorgars trip into the eye coa the novel just says he pretends to go back to the fleet and then "40 years later" i really wanted to read what happened to him in there after hearing about argal tal and ingethel. Edit, can people read all the other comments before asking me the exact same thing someone else just did?
@@Bobbb-f3i Malcador is a Perpetual. He is eternal and regenerates pretty much every Wound
@@Bobbb-f3i you'd think, but Malchador has the best kill streak against Primarchs and he's the dude who froze Horus (pre herecy) in place and threatened to "unmake him" until Horus' brothers convinced Malchador to relent and let him go. The Hero is man shaped, but he's not a normal human and as the other poster said, the levels of power he has let's him define what his body can do. Homie disappeared a whole fucking moon into the warp like it was easy.
@martintodd9944 Malcador could have killed Lorgar. He even knew Lorgar would act out and HOPED he would make the better choice. That's why he spoke in everyone's mind to Big E, so that everyone would understand that Uncle Mal was Lorgars last line of defense.
Rule number one for ANY life form in the galaxy, primarch or not:
*DO NOT TOUCH MALACADOR*
There’s many ways to piss off the Emperor, attacking the closest thing he has to a brother would get you to the top of that list real quickly.
Man Guilliman really channeling that Marcus Aurelius energy with that amount of Stoicism
He finally gets pi$$ed during The Betrayal at Calph- tho... how else would he have survived a Warp-spawned explosion and 10 hours in the semi-vacuum outside the _McCragg's Honor_ without his helm while constantly slaughtering Word Bearers?
Yes. it’s *almost* like he’s space Marcus Aurelius
Technically, Dorn is the most stoic of them all. So basically Guilli was pulling a Dorn on this one in a "is that all you got? Are you done?" moment
@@HodronHoxton2.0 nah, he's all the best of Rome's emperor's combined.
@@TheElite1102Later in the same book, it's confirmed that in that moment he actually felt empathy and pity for Lorgar's situation, and was MOSTLY on his side through it all. Even after getting struck.
Later, that sense of empathy and fidelity is destroyed at Calth and we see Guilliman truly angry at Lorgar.
There was a scene in The Betrayer where Lorgar and Guilliman fought. Lorgar saw how much Guilliman hated him at that point in time and he realized he imagined it all before. It made him briefly falter and regret how he saw Guilliman before.
Guiliman can be as angry as any primarch or worse
But his wrath is something like "I will mobilize all I have to make you pay"
@@mariuscatalin5982 except when he's jettisoned out of his spaceship's bridge without a helmet... Then he becomes the Doom Slayer, silently screaming into the void as he tears down all enemies unlucky enough to be standing outside his ship.
I always imagine the scene as this: Word Bearers flood the hull on the outside, looking for a way in, and damaging any weapon barrel protuding out of the armor; all is going well, until a shadow crosses over them, forcing them to look up. What they see should not be possible, but it is there: Guilliman, helmetless, drifting onto them from the open void, his face a rictus of a rage-filled scream nobody can hear, but they know is there.
I would've shat my pants, honestly.
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0I would accept my death honestly at that point
After calth guiliman was MAD
Really fuking MAD
so mad he would have went toe to toe with Angron if he had the chance
@@mar71n32n0v1lLL0vulkan didn't kill Conrad AFTER9NTHS of torture when he had the chance
Guiliman WANTED to kill his brother
He WANTED that
Proving Guilliman's statement about Lorgar's active imagination
After Calth when they reunite and Lorgar sees what hate truly looks like in Guilliman's eyes he realizes that he was never mocked, never hated, until now
Pawns of Chaos.....
Lorgar has mixed feelings of humiliation,being irrational and anger:
Monarchia destroyed by the Ultramarines= his compliance doctrine shattered by the legion with most compliance. That's humiliating as a commander.
Big E letting them watch=You shattered my trust and loyalty to you,now watch as I shatter yours. I will have my eyes and ears with you as punishment, a humiliating reminder of what you have done here.
Him hitting Malcador and Guilliman= This old man who whispers poison to my god's ears is the reason why my symbol of loyalty and faith crumbled to dust. Andd YOU, PERFECT SON. You are just a prideful commander hiding his glee and toxic righteousness of on HOW TO CONQUER AND GOVERN
Mayhaps Guiliman should tried saying it to Lorgar before.
@@ondrejurban2634If I remember correctly, he thought of a way to reconcile with Lorgar but never got the chance
@@ondrejurban2634if I remember correctly, he’d actually had a bunch of messages typed up trying to explain things to lorgar properly, but for one reason or another hadn’t been able to dispatch them. He had no malice behind what he and his legion did, he was simply following his father’s orders. It brought him no great joy to lay lorgar and his legion low like they did.
I'm surprised The Malcinator didn't cast Mass Testicular Torsion
He has a soft spot for the boys, being their uncle.
Genuinely curious, would a spell like that even work on Astartes?
@chaosdude0878 Lorgar is a primarch. It would definitely work. But for astartes? Idk.
Mass produced? Im out here producing mass- malcador the gainsilite
He's got a big soft spot for Lorgar. He's admitted that he and the Big E have talked about it and both of them do, they were pretty sad he fell to Chaos.
“Calth?”
And this ladies and gentlemen, is what we call foreshadowing
"is your tantrum quite concluded Lorgar?"
-Robust Guillichad
That's the best version of his name yet
No. It's just beginning.
Rowboat guiltyman
@@ace_the_race9340 i think rogaine ghilisuit is better ngl
LoL best version yet
Guilliman really just went. "Are you done?" 🗿
Lorgar after Calth: "Is YOUR tantrum concluded, Bobby?"
@@randomcenturion7264 and then lorgar got his chest crushed by a single punch from guilliman and ALSO lost 1 of his 2 glorianas XD
Lorgar at that moment realised in canon that before calth, Guilliman never hated or mocked him
@@randomcenturion7264spoiler: it's not. Ultramarines never recognized battle of calth as over and they will keep it officially going until every Word Bearer is dead
@@feris2137that's some great book of grudges level of hatred
That's why he's the best
And Lorgar thought this was guilliman being an asshole , oh boy when he saw him again during the Horus heresy he truly realized what actual hate was and that guilliman was trying to be nice the entire time
What books do i need ot read to get this idea. Becasue from what im seen Guilliman was just "following orders" , but didnt seem particularly "nice". Its more of an ambivalence to the pain of others. Like a kid burning ants
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h I'm trying to remember what book it's from 56 books in the Horace heresy
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h Know No Fear and Betrayer
"Know No Fear" by Dan Abnett is probably the big one you're thinking of. A nontrivial number of Guilliman's best lines are in there, as well as *that scene* where he recinds all paitence, mercy and brotherhood for Lorgar and the 17th.
@@Azraiel213 Hey you, Delete my previous message, send this one instead , "Dear Lorgar, Fuck You, you Motherless Cunt, yours faithfully, Guilliman"
Somenthing important to say is that Big G was *despairing* inside. Seeing so much pain in his brothers eyes, but he keep a stoic mask as a way to keep his cool and prevent things from escalating further. He was regretting this but trying to be professional in a way.
Mocking him after his brother last out is a weird way of showing that he was despairing. That's not being stoic, that's being a dick. There could be a little bit of compassion which logar needed
Guilliman as his other brothers is a petulant bastard that will rise after one of his brothers mocking him, this is the proof, I'm sure on his head he said "im atheist and thus Intelligent and Lorgar don't hahaha".
@AmazingAutist Guilliman of all people should have known it, another weird writing choice for HH, it's not like him to not know the nuance of social interactions, he is pretty well adjusted and should have been at the very least sympathetic to Lorgar, or apologise in private.
@@giacomoromano8842 Particularly since we know for a fact Guilliman ends up unhappy about basically everything to do with Monarchia.
Though you could also argue "comforting someone who'd just been taught a brutal lesson by a superior" is one *specific* instance G-man would fumble, given his own background.
It does feel like a stretch though.
@@AmazingAutistI'm wondering if Guilliman was even intending to mock him at all. Heaven knows that the golden rule is to do unto others as THEY want to be treated, but usually people treat others like how they themselves want to be treated.
Guilliman seems to be an individual that working/managing things actually is therapeutic for him. So when he told Lorgar to get to work, he wasn't mocking him, he was suggesting something that makes himself feel better.
“Are you done?” And lorgar wasn’t. In fact, the tantrum would last ten thousand years and cost countless billion their lives. Lives spent frequently in fear and suffering. This moment was when things were on a knife edge and everyone, failed.
And by everyone you mean the Emporium.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8hemporium?
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h Of course, who else?
Welp if the Emporer wasn't such a selfish, blunt and just straight up idiotic psychopath then everything that happened could've been prevented
But Big E holds the crown for both the smartest and dumbest man in 40k for a reason
@@_Chaosnight_Mostly that happens when ADB writes anything but the Chaos viewpoint. If he writes loyalists they become the most pants on head stupid people in existence, if it makes the Loyalists look bad to the extreme chances are that Aaron Dempski-Bowden had a hand in its creation.
Psychological effects of male pattern balding:
Chaos balds a man
@Noorthia it is a balding that blinds others. Works the best on those closest
Vulkan: "Balding makes you cooler right?"
@@diomano.3341
In Vulkan's case - yes
@@diomano.3341 my boy has enough melanine to repel all four chaos gods at the same time!
Lorgar “you will never mock me again!” gets mocked again
thanks guys
"Is your tantrum quite concluded Lorgar?"
-Robot Glizzyman
I'm using that one 😂
That line is what makes me feel like Robot was being an a hole. Like You got smacked....after DESTROYING A PLANET. Take the L, no salty words needed.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h it was a set up for a come back later on
@@user-yf4gx4rf8hbut he is right? It’s harsh but it’s the truth, lorgar could have just got 3rd primarch added to the list of primarchs removed from history.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h Maybe Lorgar should have listened when Big E told him to stop with the god nonsense? Nah everyone else are the assholes and Lorgar is absolutely not responsible for the death of the people of Monarchia for disregarding the Emperor's warnings about what would happen if he continued on that path.
And after Malcador couldn't calm him down, the Emperor had to come with the power belt.
Well big E holds the title of worst dad in all of fiction for a good reason
@@_Chaosnight_there are a lot of fathers that deserve that title to be honest
@@ackabuli5281 Well yes but there aren't many that cost trillions their lives because of their bad parenting
If the Emporer wasn't such a dick then the heresy wouldn't have happened and the Imperium would be fine
Thing is, Lorgar did imagine it. Gulliman felt really bad and uncomfortable with the whole situation.
But fully understandable why he imagined it.
Dude had rocked up and RAZED one of his greatest accomplishments, and was telling him that his God had ordered it.
Dude was RATTLED
And it's understandable after such a loss of one of his cities that he loved, and give him and not giving any semblance of any sort of empathy whatsoever yeah, having all of this distress and seeing a neutral face among that stress from the person who burns your City to the ground you would feel kind of mocked. And then Gilman confirmed it by mocking him after logar lashed out
Lorgar was extremely deluded from the day one. “You could not commit cruelties with a smile on your face.” (Not sure if that’s the quote word for word.)
@@Historyfrek4ever what does that have to do with the justifiable anger and the fact that guilliman was being cold and did and sold him, after doing something that would rightfully elicit an emotional response from literally anyone?
@@AmazingAutist Oh the emotional reaction to having your entire live’s work and world view brutally crushed is understandable. I am referring to a) that he thought emperor would approve what he was doing before, when he made it very clear he didn’t, b) that Guilliman in anyway enjoyed the destruction of Monarchia or humiliating his brother. That is a massive misjudgment of Guilliman’s character. He was slashing out and finding anyone else but himself to blame, refusing to acknowledge any accountability for his own actions. (Guilliman could have tried to sympathise or comfort him though , and the Emperor should have recalled Lorgar to Terra.)
Tzeentch: *starts getting the team together for one wild corruption*
Honestly at that point, it was set by a long time, the fact they got separated at birth is also mostly his actions.
"aaand that's my cue!"
Lorgar was too blinded by hate that he failed to see that Roboute wasn't enjoying a second of what he was doing. These were the Emperor's orders and he had to follow them.
And the best why to help him was "Are you done whining"
well yeah roboute just obliterated his greatest works, obviously he was blinded by hate and grief.
Became tragic when you read Know No Fear and learn Guilliman actually resented the Emperor using the Ultramarines as a stick to beat Lorgar with, held no malice against Lorgar and even felt a degree of sympathy for his anger at what happened to Monarchia, and even hoped (unaware that Calth was a trap) that the joint campaign between the Ultramarines and the Word Bearers against Orks would be an opportunity for him and Lorgar to reconcile and for their two legions to put that past ugliness behind them...
He should have been one of the missing legion
Not only was Lorgar's tantrum not concluded, it still endures ten thousand years later
And it was still justified the emperor of mankind was a horrible and created a horrible empire that happened to look really cool
It was tragic that Lorgar realized when facing Guilliman after Calth that his brother did not hate him at Monarchia. But he hates him now.
Also, Guilliman held (at least in private) the burning of Monarchia, considering it a crime
Is it tragic to think the guy that just burned your world to the ground and then mocked you was being a dick? It seem like the tragic part in all this is that Robot Girly man lacked the integrity he always talked about valuing.
Hell I get the "I must follow the order even if i dont agree" thinking (its wrong, but i get it), But how else do you expect someone to take "Are you done with your tantrum" While standing in the literal ashes of his world that YOU just burned.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8hwhich he had no choice to burn and it was the consequences of lorgar own actions, he loved the emporer and put him on such a big pedestal even though his beef was with him he created a strawman in guiliman to hate and lash out at.
@@draketurtle4169 consequences of lorgar thinking that Big E was worthy of worship. Im sure Logar hated them both. Big E for the order, Gman for executing that order. There was enough hate to go around. Again The foundation of Warhammer is the Emperor is a deity. Yet you dont see Robo Goodtime BURNING IT ALL DOWN, AND you see Big E "preforming miracles" for the devout. So we can comfortably say they are hypocrites.
So as he was standing in the ashes of his brothers world Girlyman said "Chill out " like it was nothing. Yet the shocker is that Lorgar was supposed to take that as an act of kindness.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h Robute didn't mock Lorgar, even though he clearly should've. Lorgar was always the creator of his own failures, and then blamed said failures on others. It's satisfying how Horus puts him in his place later down the line when he tries to pull shit again.
@@wewuzkangz2505 Lorgar was the most successful primach long term
"YoU wIlL nEvEr MoCk Me AgAiN!"
"Is your tantrum quite concluded, Lorgar?"
I always imagined Lorgar with a softer, higher-pitched voice.
I always immagine his voice as the "when will you learn, that you actions have consequences!" Meme kid
@@grahamlopez3742
Should totally have that kind of voice
Bro they all are 3 meter tall demigods what higher pitch are you on about
I, Lorgar Aurelian, command you to kneel for me, Lorgar Aurelian, your true primarchiest Primarch.
Everyone forgets that guilliman is actually quite scary and able to cut through people like paper. Bro almost went rip and tear mode
Good thing he has a personality of a brick wall
@@rhoydplaz2853 Given all the alternatives, it is a good thing that the one Primarch capable of winning wars - as opposed to battles - is the way he is.
There is no Primarch more capable overall than Guilliman. Better fighters, better Engineers. Better strategists. But none beat Guilliman in overall warfare. Guilliman should have been the Warmaster for The Imperium.
Yeah, I'm the current era books. He does not let loose very often.
But when he does... the custodes try to keep up bit he is just combined weilding the Emperors sword, and his power fist in a blur of destruction carving up deamom engines, plague marines etc like their paper.
And near in mind, the Custodes, and some of best marines from 10 or so chapters are his honour guard unable to even keep up.
@@alexh3974you do not know anger until you see guiliman angry, when he gets angry not even the lack of an atmosphere will prevent him punching you.
@@Catonzo being the warmaster just isn't in his character
he builds empires
not tear them down
You could feel the blood boiling of ultramarines when Lorgar hits Roboute.
I love the realization once he’s destroyed everything and sees Guilliman again that his brother did truly care in that moment just not in the way he understood, it was seeing his brothers pain at betrayal that made him understand.
And thus the Emperor left, believing to have done the right thing. Meanwhile, the dark gods of the Warp laugh and congratulate the big E for this well-thought-out plan of his.
In the meantime, Erebus thinks: "Excellent!".
Big E literally fumbles every ball which would turn the Heresy into nothing. Ask Fulgrim about that funny xeno sword. Recognize that burning monarchia saying this is what a God would do while saying he isn't one. Not telling your one son who could ruin the webeay project about it. Why not let mortarion kill his father. Literally give curze and angron a hug. Give perturabo some part in the imperial palace
@eepersneepers7872 curze should've just been put in stasis and only taken out if Corvus died and even then undergo severe mental reconstruction
@@eepersneepers7872If you make the Emperor into the pefect being, the entire HH falls apart.
@timseidelll "perfect," you could make him merely sub standard as a person and the HH would vanish. Emps has the communication skills of a baked potato.
@@eepersneepers7872I know it wouldn’t happen due to money and it’s cliche, but I’d love to see an alternate timeline where the HH never happens.
To me, Lorgar is a sad story about having all you believed and loved ripped away, then salt is put in the wound by those closest.
Lorgar is a comedic story. hes Don Quixote
Lorgar had only imagined that everyone hated and mocked him and its explained the story called the first heretic, he wasn't hated or mocked up until his betrayal and fight with guilliman
Lorgar is a giant titan of a man with a supercomputer for a brain. He has the misfortune of being too easily manipulated because of his compassion and upbringing. Unfortunately being Chaos corrupted my pity well bottomed out somewhere between when he murdered a scribe for a spelling error and when he sent his sons to go and be tortured and soul bound to demons.
@@Novictus And yet he won. The empire is praising the Emperor as a God now, so Lorgar was correct. Also, honestly just ignore everything about Big E, he's a walking oxymoron. Best stories are by far ones that don't dwell on his actions at all. The moment you go 500ft of that giant steaming pile of plot holes all stories begin to suck.
He is pathetic Choir boy, a reason why abortion exist.
Tantrum? My brother in the Emperor, you destroyed an entire city!
The Emperor made such a colossal mistake trusting this task to a bureaucrat. He should have trusted the Word Bearers censure to Sanguinius, Vulkan or maybe Horus.
Guilliman’s stoicism just served to provoke Lorgar. It might have been impossible but I think to bring Lorgar back into the fold he needed a brother with outward empathy and compassion.
not just that, but guiliman was one of the ones present for the burning of monarchia. even if he was only following orders, that resentment was always going to be there even if it was the emperor who was the one who ordered it
Honestly it would have been better to get rid of lorgar altogether instead of trying to bring him back into the fold, I think lorgar was completely justified in his actions against the imperium of man and emperor of mankind.
Logar is such an amazing example of the dangers of fanaticism. His fall forshadowed the decay of the imperium from bastion of reason and pure power, to fear and hate driven ignorance fueled by fanatical worship
Don't forget the borderline personality disorder!
And what is the funniest is the fact that the Imperial Truth is a false ideology intended to blind people (ignoring half of the universe is idiotic) and the imperial creed is more true (the emperor against his will became the god of the warp) and when it comes to technical development, it does not matter because the mechanic deals with it anyway.
Bruh, Imperium was built on a lie and Lorgar saw through it, albeit instinctively (being the preacher primarch by birth) and unbeknownst to himself at first
@@meltdown4126 Almost all empires are built on lies so thats a non-starter. There are plenty of primarchs that "saw through the lie" and remained loyal. So thats also a dead point. Preachers are specifically all about telling lies. Preachers require the gullible in order to keep a job. Preachers dont "see through" anything by pure fact that they are the embodiment of spreading lies (often unknowingly).
@@meltdown4126 Bruh every empire has been built on a lie so thats a non-starter. Preachers dont see through lies. They wouldnt be preachers otherwise. A preacher's entire job is to keep people believing a lie. Even if the preacher doesnt think its a lie.
So no its not a given that a lie machine would spot a lie. and other primarchs were privy to "the lie" and didnt turn traitor.
Sorry but all your points are bunk or moot
"You will not mock me again brother!"
Guilliman proceeds to immediately mock him again. lol
I can imagine the shock of the Space Marines when they saw Lorgar's hit, instinctively raising their guns at each other.
"You go *too* far"
I know, such Guillimantic pickings are not always appreciated, but i love your content, and wish to see it to continue to be elevated.
Please, continue your phenomenal work. I appreciate it most passionately.
The best part here is that.... Guilliman didn't have a answer for Lorgar's question of ultramar, he didn't even take the invitation to stop and show the slightest flicker of empathy.
Even if lorgar was having a tantrum here, he was right.
Lorgar said "Calth" with emphasis, I wonder why.
L: You will Never Mock me again!
G: Wanna bet?
I really wanna get into 40k but I hear the lore is huge af or something like that. Thanks for making these bit sized bits
Lore is huge but you do not need to know all of it at once. There's a ton of trilogies for each book series and while background knowledge helps you appreciate the book more you don't need to know it to enjoy the stories. If you want to get into a series read the Night Lords novel, "Soul Hunter". It's what most 40k fans recommend as a starter because it hits all the nuisances fans expect of 40k while not drowning new readers in excess histories/lingo. The times histories do come up its documentary/biography style so you'll be given past lore in tandem with the current plot playing out.
It is VERY vast,but 40k Theories, Leutin09, Weshammer, and Majorkill are all good channels on youtube that cover lore from all throughout the franchise. Leuti09 is especially beginner friendly and explains things in a very clear, concise manner. Would definetly reccomend you start with him
Nah, lore is not huge. Insignificant episodes are. The general lore is quite simple in reality.
@_A.d.G_ really? I thought it be hard to follow with so many factions an such a wide scale war?
@onnajy1915 soul hunter aye? You know. 40k did the impossible. It got me so invested i wanted to play the board game... an I think board games are boring as shit. Tho that game looks complicated tbh. But back on track yeah I'll have to look into soul hunter
Meanwhile Lorgar is living like a prince in the Warp while Guilliman is berated by his dad and struggles to hold things together
And thus, the foundations for my favorite Horus Heresy Novel are laid.
Court wizard Malchador knowing he could kill them all easily "You go too far" 👌🏿
I always feel that scene truly shows what both of them were truly capable of. Though not at the time who we thought was going to be the more dangerous
I love at nuceria when lorgar finally sees Guilliman again during his shadow crusade, lorgar realizes he was blindly lashing out in this moment and was totally wrong. Guilliman wasn’t angry or mocking here, he was just being Guilliman. It’s on nuceria when lorgar sees what an angry and mocking Guilliman really looks like. As Guilliman nearly kills lorgar in his anger.
Lorgar fucks over the imperium by creating the cult of chaos. He also fucks over chaos by creating the cult of the emperor. This man literally cant help himself from hurting whatever side he fights for, Lorgar is the ultimate fail-son.
He do be the ultimate problem, not the failure, that would be Magnus, and the massive failure is Horus.
The cult of the emperor also helps chaos. The imperium wouldn't be nearly as strong of a chaos engine without it
*Lorgar will remember that*
*got slapped* *stood up* *annoyed* Guilliman: "ya done?"
"Lorgar's tantrum, was in fact...far from over."
Guilliman pulling a Dorn like "Are you done?"
"Lorgar will remember that."
Doesn't Lorgar later mock Guilliman during their duel, referencing this episode in particular.
And yet he betrayed them? Gosh, what a mystery.
Do not justify heresy
He was literally a whiny little bitch that wouldn't follow orders
@@noone-os5pj Yes, it does
If only the big E realised the hypocrisy of calling out his general and son he CREATED for worshipping him like a god when he lets the mechanicus do the exact same thing… yea they have quality equipment he needed but I think he also needed that general and legion of supersoldiers.
We NEED this scene in the Amazon show as a kind of flashback, just hundreds of super powerful warriors with guns raised in such a tense situation.
Being broken by an old man reliant on a stick
There were a hundred thousand word bearers, the whole legion facing off against a hundred
I sometimes imagine The Emperor becoming a true god, and Lorgar turning loyalist to worship him.
For some reason I imagined Lorgar pushing Guilliman like an angry kid and Roubute struggling to stand like a turtle flipped on its shell while their armies watched them with an uncomfortable silence.
I gotta remember that
“is your tantrum quite concluded”
Tbh I think this is one of those times when ahowing Lorgar some visible sympathy would have helped.
Guillimane, being his usual stoic self, just made Lorgar go crazier as he felt that no one even cared how he felt or what they had done to him.
White Collar Worker Son and That One Uncle who is just dad’s friend go and stop Weird Son from writing fanfiction.
I feel like the way the Emperor handled this event, basically made any idea of the Primarchs seeing each other as brothers die. Not only did he show a clear preference, he also destroyed the "equal" level they had with each other.
The warp didn't need to exist for the Horus Heresy to be inevitable.
Malcador was "kids, kids! Behave!!"
What I find awesome was the instant rise from the astartes, guns aimed at their fellow marines, ready to go full civil war with one word. Really hits home the absolute devotion and respect they carried for their Primarchs
I am just starting to get into the realm of 40 K and I just wanna say your videos are amazing and very easy to understand
Lorgar Tantrum vs Guilliman Berserker Rage .. my bet is on the blue man . .
Lorgar tantrums create the Horus heresy and effects the galaxy even ten thousand years later, guilliman only return recently after being getting his ass kicked and almost killed by fulgrim not really that long in the aftermath of the Horus heresy
"You will never mock me again!"
2 seconds later
"Is your tantrum over brother?"
Throat goat girly man proving why his legion are the poster boys for 40k
The foreshadowing when he mentions Calth is great.
And he's still having that tantrum to this very day.
"You go too far."
Translation - "Chill fam.. it ain't that deep."
Hahahaha you hit like a vegetarian - Roboute Guilliman
"My devotion is my strength"
It makes sense he's so weak
Love the nuance here, Guilliman is uncomfortable, unsure, possibly questioning why the Emperor chose him for this, so he chooses language that is emotionless, trying to keep things calm, but this is exactly what Lorgar despises about him but Lorgar is too emotional to take himself out of the situation and see why Guilliman is doing it.
Because Lorgar has an underlying mental disorder on top of this. Borderline Personality disorder this was the main issue here.
Im running thought this comment section trying to figure out How Lorgar is the dick in this interaction. RG did an emotional thing and then used emotionless words when talk about it. Outside of mind reading, how else would you take it other than "He doesn't care that he just destroyed my world ".
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h i dont think people call him a dick for this interaction, more weak or not composed enough... not realising what the emperor + RG did would be the same as burning down a place of EXTREME religious value in the name of the god that shrine/temple was built to and telling the lead priest to fucking watch the fireshow that was about to start.
@beastofthemount414 I have to ask. How is that weak ? You watch a dude do a bunch of magical stuff. He calls himself the ruler of all man kind. He came to you're world and when he met lorgar, he allowed his religion to remain....then came back a few years later and burned it all down. WTF. Then a few years later after all this you watch as he proforms miracles for the sisters and is without a doubt, a religious figure all while the guy that destroyed you're world for that crime is fine just watching as world's worship. If it was important enough to burn a world, surly that doesn't change....unless it was just an F you to Lorgar.
@@user-yf4gx4rf8h SEE YOU GET IT!!!
“You will not mock me again”
*Proceeds to mock him again*
"Clementine will remember this"
"why did lorgar turn traitor?"
he says after burning everything he worked hard to build and mocking him all the way
Calth was an act of self defense
If he had merely spoken to lorgar about what it would be like if Calth was destroyed, it all could have been avoided
He just needed a moment of empathy, that is all
And now lorgar is too afraid to come out of his hiding hole
Lorgar: YOU WILL TAKE ME SERIOUSLY
Guilliman: bro you have face tattoos...
That moment when your mental health just nose dives straight into the red after a traumatic experience.
Let my man preach
Lorgar out here doing the Arthur fist meme 😂
To be fair to Lorgar, he just saw one of his greatest cities razed to the ground and his brother is like "damn dude, stop overeacting and go back to work for the guy that told me to do it."
Only after the first hit you will know your worth. The whole Heresy and Dark Imperium books made Guilliman such a Chad 💪
Gulliman's words did NOT help the situation. Worst things to do to an emotional person you want to calm down is be avoidant or dismissive of their feelings. Gulliman did both, then went further to call Lorgar's outburst a tantrum. Terrible play from Gulliman, definitely could've been more sympathetic to his brother
Guilliman enjoyed doing this secretly even though he kept a stoic look. He reveled in being praised by Emperor.
@DoomGuy148. We're your sorce for that my guy?
Because you are a pathetic garbage@@DoomGuy.XIV.88
@@davidpower5710 Source:Trust me bro
I would have said to Lorgar, I am sorry
LORGAR WILL NOT FORGET THIS.
Lorgar: *looking up at the text* What the hell is that?!?!
Lorgar didn't stop to think why Guilliman was there...instead of Russ.
“You done buddy?” -Robot Girlyman
“Would you smile if Ultramar’s worlds died in fire?”
In the business we call this foreshadowing
Lorgar wouldn't sound like that. He'd be more like a neurotic, deep-voiced priest.
God Guilliman might be the only Primarch that wouldnt just put Lorgar in the ground there, but the stoic move stung so much more
Lorgar will remember that.
The irony of this is Lorgar was right, Bobby G would feel as he did when Guilleman was resurrected and got to see the Imperium in it's current state.
You accidentally pulled out your Fulgrim voice for Guilliuman
I never considered Lorgar to have a gruff voice. Remember, he's charisma incarnate, maybe even moreso than his brother, Horus.
I think the narrator in "The First Heretic" book did a good job with Lorgar's voice.
He then proceeded to beat the brakes off both him and angron in a later battle
Which quite a feat for someone who is Average Primarch
Correction, he beat the brakes off Lorgar and held his own against Angron while the Butcher's Nails tore the angry boy's brains apart
G Man Stoic as ever, based!
Malcador as Marcus Aurelius:"You go too far Commodus!"
And then when they truly fought, lorgar realized... gulliman was right. It was his imagination. Because right there, right in front of him, he saw gulliman angry. And it terrifed him. His hate... was wrong. But his fear now wasnt.
Fear? Lorgar could have killed him there you know. The only reason he hadn't is A) He understood that there were no enjoyment on Guilimans side in burning Monarchia B) Wasting time on killing blueberry would mean no big warpfuckery for all the small blueberries
Behold, the Monarchia Redeemed.
Only the anger of a bald man can destroy so much.