Does Good measurement = Good Sound? Nord acoustics NC500 Hypex amplifier review !
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- Nord acoustics NC500 monoblock amplifiers are audiophile class D amplifiers based on the Hypex module. Just like the Nord acoustics NC400, It measures extremely well and is said to compete with PS Audio Class D amplifiers as well as NAD class D amplifiers. So, How does it actually sound?
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Second-degree distortion in Class A, AB amplifiers is perceived as a warmer sound. The lack of distortion in class D amplifiers produces a neutral sound that many are not used to. What you prefer is a matter of taste.
I would agree. With my Purifi based amplifier, they really do a great job of showing everything else in the chain because they don’t impart their own distortion into the mix. I will admit that sometimes a bit of distortion can sound pleasing, but that’s mostly because so much music is poorly recorded and it’s kind of a bandaid.
Agreed. People like vinyl and tubes for the same reason. People don't actually like very revealing equipment (bright!11) because most music is mastered pretty poorly. Frankly the solution to this is EQing or DSP to suite your taste.
@@awwtergirl7040 The thing I've noticed is the "better" I've made my system, the less recordings I can listen to and enjoy...I know it's getting better, because well made recordings sound great....but it does seem bizarre.... I guess it is partly because of the recordings being balanced for mid-fi equipment, so when played back on something more neutral it sounds unpleasant....so maybe we need to have two systems, one for great recordings and one for the rest......
I would agree.
@@mfr58 Most music sold after 1995 has been messed about with during recording by adding distortion and hard clipping plus various other techniques which the music industry does to create a certain sound the public thinks sounds cool. Prior to this date the emphasis was on authentic reproduction. How they operate is they create the sound that sells most records, and that sound is a copy of the previous sounds that sold most records. It's a non-Markovian sequence!
If it measures good and sounds bad, you don't like the way the speakers sound. Instead of spending thousands of dollars chasing an amplifier with the right set of flaws to compensate for your speakers, why not buy a perfectly engineered amplifier and then just eq your speakers for free?
To those that say you can't measure good sound, I'd love to hear the explanations for how the engineers that built your favorite amp did so without measurements.
“If it measures good and sounds bad, it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, you’ve measured the wrong thing.” - Daniel von Recklinghausen, audio engineer at EAD and KLH
Like Bruno Putzeys (inventor of Hypex Ncore, Purifi 1ET400A) says, the difference in distortion between solid state amplifiers pales in comparison to the amount of distortion introduced by any high end speaker which introduces distortion orders of magnitude higher. Moving your speakers 6 inches in your room will make more difference than swapping an amplifier. The comb filtering and the objects in your room are far far far far far more important to the sound than an amplifier. Objective measurements don't lie. Ears are all subjective. And the vast majority of "experienced" audiophiles and engineers have measurable hearing loss on audiometric testing. Yes... with age comes hearing loss. Trust their ears? hmm... Swapping op amps? Hmm.. get the highest quality available. Probably Sonic Imagery 990. It's like asking which flavor of slight distortion you prefer.
Yup lol. Speakers and room treatment should be 80% of the system budget IMO
That slow zoom-in giving me anxiety man! LOL Another great review!
The real question isn’t whether it can sound like Class A, B, Z, etc. The real question is which is correct aka more accurate to the source signal. The amplifier should not be a source of coloration; it should be a window to the rest of the signal chain. The differences in sound should come from your source(s), your preamplifier, your speakers, and most importantly, your room.
I agree and am baffled by how there can be so much difference in amp sound? A good amp is supposed to multiple the strength of the signal. If an amp were "bright" I would expect the frequency response to increase as frequency increases. Also on a scope if the wave in matches the wave out (other than larger) same thing, how does it change the sound?
Interesting comment. My 2 Hypex NC500 mono blocks have been woefully lacking behind my old Bryston 4B using the same front end (Sonos Port). Do you think an actual pre amp (Like A Mcintosh C8) will make a difference in terms of overall power with the Hypex or will it change both combinations equally?
@@MitchHowesyes if you're not getting full power out of it that's entirely due to your source voltage and the input buffer on your amp. You don't necessarily need a different preamp or DAC, although that could solve the issue with more input voltage, but you can also change the input buffer in the amp so it's at full tilt with 2v input or whatever.
You're almost right, except take it further. The preamp, if you even have one (not necessary with a DAC, it's analog output section is enough to deliver 2+ volts, as long as your amps input buffer is set up to be at maximum output with a ~2v input. But the preamp shouldn't color anything either, and nor should the source - unless you mean the ultimate source, i.e. the music, however it's encoded.
Speakers space and music should influence sound, all electronics should be neutral (or intentional i.e. EQ).
I have been searching the difference between sparkos and sonic imagery opamps. Glad to hear your take on that.
Hey. Good video and please when are you going to review the first-watt F7 amplifier?
You just saved me some coin Jay. There's a nice looking stereo version on Audiogon right now, and your descriptions of these mono-blocks are not what I would be looking for. Certainly my Red Dragon's have texture and a very well balanced mid-range. Thanks for this review.
"If it measures good and sounds bad, -- it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, -- you've measured the wrong thing." Daniel R. von Recklinghausen
Strawman
I have tried both op amps in my VTV Purifi monoblock amps and the Sonic Integrity is very harsh sounding. The Sparkos has both detail and smoothness.
Great job Jay , op-amp rolling is alot of fun with the Aune X8 majic dac i just reviewed ! Love that dac for the price
i 'm about to review the New Schiit modius dac ! Just got it in 4 days ago , Then i will have a budget dac battle
Schiit Modius vs Aune X8 majic dac !
Also got the Audiolab CDT- CD transport in for a review 😆 I got alot of work todo ! Thanks for the video !!!
Any chance of a review of Peachtree Nova 300 or 150? These seem to get reasonable reviews for class D? Love a head to head comparison of a Peachtree to a Hint 6 for sound quality.
Great review Jay!!! 👍👍👍 The fact how good those Hypex Class D amps sound is highly depending upon the implementation. In this aspect, Nord Acoustics thought by changing the original input buffer to better spec discrete opamp will equal better sound was clearly picked up by your ears that designing a great sounding amp is not always just by spec! 👍❤👍
Interesting review, it sounds like the specs are consistent with the M700 monoblocks. Can you comment on the Nord's sound compared to the PS Audio m700 monoblocks as far as any forwardness and possible fatigue?.
These amps are really revealing, you might want to revisit your front end. I recently got the Nord SE Purifi monos and had to re-evaluate my whole front end. I replaced my multibit DAC and now my a pre amp. With the Nords in my system I can clearly tell the difference between Tidal and Amazon HD. Same thing for DACs, now I have the RME ADI-2 in the system, a minimal and hyper transparent setup. Not always musical if the recording is mediocre... But on good live recordings I can hear everything, it’s amazing. Also, I got rid of that high frequency glare when I replaced my DAC. Transparency does come at a price, but it is worth it IMO. I’ve been looking for the truth in recordings for decades and now I feel I’m as close to it as I’ve ever been. I think a lot of the high end gear available tries to mask recordings imperfections for better “musicality”, but the problem with that approach is that you’re likely to get bored wirh your system at some point.
Interesting.... I did try many different front ends and because of the nature of what I do (aka reviewing) I am kinda forced to many times in the process. Interestingly I did not come to your conclusion but that may perhaps be because my front end was not good enough or perhaps I am still not a fan of the sound. Anyways like I said, each to their own and some that may not appeal to me may appeal to others. Enjoying music for yourself is most important
I agree DACs make a big difference
purifi are not hypex
I have to agree with you on this.
I agree, he has a problem elsewhere. Those NC500 are not forgiving. Bright? BS.
The NC500 makes the same power into 8 ohms before clipping as the NC1200 (270 watts) and close to the same power into 4 ohms (445 watts vs 480). The SINAD of NC500 measures about 10 db lower than the other NC modules.
Great review! I'm a firm believer in measurements and I understand they aren't the end to good sound quality but its important to measure them to determine if something is out of whack or has a design flaw. It also helps to keep manufacturers honest especially with power ratings. This is one reason I've dropped my subscription to the Absolute Sound and now just subscribe to Stereophile.
Jay, how do these monoblocks compare to PS audio stellar M700?
They are better, at least the module is better. Avoid the aftermarket input buffers, get the Hypex factory input buffer.
I got a NC252-based amp (250wpc @4ohm) and it has no issue powering my LRS. Would be hard pressed to beat in terms of value (especially the one assembled by France's Audiophonics). I think room issues will have a much bigger impact on frequency response or perceived sound quality...
Hey that's the amp that is on its way to me right now. Can't wait to hear it! I hope it's better than the NC500.
In the way one 125 for me, the little brother (I really don't need more power for my Cornwalls). Any update on how you like the sound of the Audiophonics?
You answered your own question!! At this level the brightness is the amp reveveling detail on BAD RECORDINGS.
Very interesting. Once in my life, I decided to replace my older amplifier (Leak Delta 70) with a more modern, better measuring design. I hadn't heard it but reviews were positive. Very wife friendly, the new Sony unit was slim and shiny and took up less space. I hooked it up to my speakers and was positively impressed by the high frequencies. But the bass was abysmal. No weight like my Leak had, but the specifications suggested otherwise: more current and 30%-50% more power. After two weeks with it, I decided it was unlistenable and gave it to my brother in law. I replaced it with a Cambridge? A60 and the rest is history. Lesson learned. When wanting to replace the A60, I shortlisted three or four models and conducted extensive listening tests. Exposure won on musicality - I was no longer listening to hifi - I was listening to music. That was 1986 and I am still listening to my Exposure EVERY DAY. And thanks to my attention to power supply, good cables, isolation, RF shielding and speaker choice it sounds better than ever. Great channel, Jay. Thank you. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
Interesting. Thank you for the honest review. I have a pair of mono blocks, from Apollon Audio which is also NC500 based, with sparkos op amps, and I don't find them bright or with this treble glare that you mentioned. Soundstage is good but also found the imaging a bit hesitant and not very well defined but my room is not an easy one :).
I'm using a Mytek brooklyn dac and a pair of Buchardt S400. And I'm coming from an emotiva class AB (A300) which has a more rolled off treble. I wonder if the implementation changes the character of the hypex nc500 or i just like this sound signature. I'm kinda new to this (3 years swapping components) and i'm still trying to figure out what i like and the nuances between different components.
hey thats cool, your experience and input is much appreciated. Time to try Apollon !
I’d mail those 2 monoblocks to you but from Europe I’m not sure how the customs and shipping bill would look like :).
Their purifi stereo amp looks excellent and v good value
Maybe I'm missing something but he is talking about an amplifier, a device which amplifies the signal it receives, and judging by its measurements I would suppose it is pretty much transparent, so it has no characteristic sound to it, right?, just amplifies the signal crystal clear to our ears.. now he says he hears this glare in upper mid range, high freq too bright, not really good imaging and all those things, that I could understand from speakers, but from an amplifier? also.. he let it ran for 3 days sound became more focused... **??!!** ... Can anyone explain?
Exactly my experience with a Rogue pharaoh amp I had. Lack of bass and dull sound, but it really drove my quads quite well. It also destroyed them 😁
De Audiofilos y Locos wow, did you hear them suffering before your Quads were totally destroyed? The early Quad 57's (the only Quad e/statics i've owned) never could take much power above 30 or so 'clean' Watts before audibly complaining when i'd always turn down the vol. So far, i've not heard of anyone who's destroyed their (later models than the 57's i've owned) Quad e/stat speakers. I'm surprised the Rogue amp was a bass-light & dull performance, i've never heard them but they appear well built inside & i've often heard their buyers on forums & independent dealers rave about them ...for whatever that's worth) So was it sheer volume alone from your Rogue amp that sealed your Quad's fate, or was it because the Rogue was turned-up so high that the power-amp section went into clipping & so produced nasty spikes (which can & does happen) that destroyed your Quads? or was it purely because the Rogue amp went rogue, electrically speaking (with or without smoke) & destroyed your Quads? It's because (along with dynamic type) i still run e/stat speakers, trying different amps valve & s.state & currently attempting to hybridise a pair of normally full-range Accustat model X e/stat speakers that i'm genuinely interested in why your Quads got destroyed
I found this video very interesting. I had a bad experience with my JC5 failing and was curious about this product. Using the Tekton DI, sounds like these would not be to my liking. it does sound like your ears are similar to mine on brightness. For my speakers, what have you used with success.........below or around 3k? thanks
You should really consider trying the True-Blue Box cobalt DA from the Netherlands.
A class D integrated with dac. It looks very handsome and the front panel can be different styles etc. It also sounds great.
2x120 Watt in 4 Ohm / 2x100 Watt in 8 Ohm
I have been curious about that integrated. I might just pull the trigger on it.
Have you heard the NewclassD Singularity 3's 900w monoblocks to review against these? I am crossed between these two amps.
What speakers are you using please jay.
Expensive OPs must be installed into your DAC (more fast for I/C and more interesting into a filter). Preamp won’t help if DAC produces so-so signal
great review... considering the gershman avant gardes after your great review and wonder if these would be good for them.... feedback/advice greatly appreciated...
have you tried nord's purifi or 1200 series?
i was really looking forward to this review, and now i know its not good enough for the money.
i still believe in the hypex modules, they just need the right parts to synergize and make it sound good.
Jay: you have been spoiled by the kt88s which were specifically designed for music in 1958.
Yeah, man. Measurements will only take you so far, but you’ve gotta trust your ears and hear a piece of gear in your own system in your own listening room. Based on your review, it sounds like the input section of those amps needs to be rethought a bit, but then again, I’d have to hear em for myself. Still another great review, Jay!
Did you ever mentioned the price ? How much for both ?
I'm so glad i watched this video. I saw the specs of these Nord NC500 Hypex Ncore version amplifiers over 18months ago & went online looking for reviews, because the specs made me think their very high damping factor (which Nord or it may have been Hypex, once did put a number to the NC400 & NC500, i don't exactly recall but it was certainly well above 2000 but not up to Hegel's 4000) ...would improve the bass-end of my e/stat 2nd system plus i thought the almost exclusively positive (very much so) on-line reviews of sound quality would suit my main room's Tannoy 15" monitor golds, not that i needed it's power. I'd read a stereophile review on Nord's amps where the guy said "it trounced my £4000 Usher class A amp on every parameter & another reviewer said "it was better than my single-ended triode amps at doing all the good things S.E.T.'s are normally best at" I'd read Hyped-up or Hypexed-up reviews all over, almost every one seemed to tell me "buy one, you can't go wrong" but then i had to trim my spending but this notion about the Nord hadn't left me until now as i fully relate to your descriptions of it's sound & you obviously value a certain minimum of quality in the sub-350'ish Hz frequencies as i do, it's the grunt area & richness zone, if a speaker's sound lacks below that upper bass/lower-mid area ...then it ruins the whole show for me on classical, rock or any genre & i now think "i would not like this amp at all" One thing i do really like about my (very vinyl-oriented system) is the ballsy low end solidity of it's sound through my tannoys if not through my Audiostatic 'wing' speakers which have a serious lack of low-end clout regardless of the driving amplifier, i got them mainly because of a cheap price, not always a good idea! anyway, good review, all those other giant-killing reviews are very suspect to me now. P.S. i noticed Nord now do a NC1200.
I was playing guitar with my buddies in a jam band practice sort of way and after one tune or song, the drummer said "i was blown away" i thought great ..awesome..and then he said, no I couldn't hear anything..lol
LOL
how does it compare to XTZ edge?
I have the same Nord amp, just stereo version, not mono blocks, hooked up to Focal 1028be. And my experience reflects some of the things you mentioned, but never really had that forward sound or too much of upper range. Probably because I am using Primaluna tube preamp with warm-sounding NOS tubes, and more neutral/muscular DAC (Schiit Yggi). Compared to my old solid-state setup (Audio Analogue, Accuphase integrated), Nord+Prima+Schiit is warm, organic and holographic. Think I never had listening fatigue, even tho some old recordings sound really bad, but never with too much of mid/upper range.
One thing, like all class-D amps, it can be dry on the top, and I solved that with cables: Signal Cable Ultra for speakers (Thomas&Stereo great recommendation!), Cambridge Audio AUD700 for interconnects (this one really made a huge difference, dryness completely disappeared with this interconnect!).
Too bad you experiment with different cable and preamps ...
The amp measures very linearly so it shouldn't be adding anything.
Love your honesty!!!
You should try their Purifi amps
So you could finally hear what the ribbons in your tweeters are doing? Try again with silk domes and see how you feel.
How is the amp when it comes to home theater though?
is soundstage really about the electronics? i always thought that it was all about phase,room acoustics,speakers design and speaker placement.
The age old philosophical battle of what’s more audiophile. Accurate or pleasant to one’s own ears… For a power amp I’d take accurate any day of the week. I can get funky with pre amps and speakers.
I am an older guy, but I can tell you know your stuff about audio. I recently ordered a Wilsenton Amp based on your advice. Supposed to come in later July. Question, If I have a speaker rated at 6 ohms, should I hook it to the 8 or the 4 ohm output on that amp? Keep up the great work, I really enjoy it.
6 ohms is probably the average, the speaker impedance might go lower. I’d go for 4 ohms. That should give your amp better control of your speakers.
thank you. try both and see which one you like better
@@Jayiyagi Thank you.
how is the wilsenton?
@@WhiteBubblySoup For me, it was a nightmare. First it just blew up. So I returned it and months later I received a replacement. As soon as I turned it on, the right channel did not work. Just got my money back. I have been taking a look at a Prima Luna for a lot more money. Frankly, I am out of the mood for a tube amp for now.
i want to know the difference between nc500 and 1et400a by nord.
I owned Nord One SE UP NC500DM Stereo Power Amp for 3 yrs. I've taken it to visit some of my pals for trial. I believe it's not the most perfect one, yet I'm sorry that I don't agree with your comment at all. I hope there is enough time and effort spent on placement of every pair of speakers while testing any amp, it will tell a different story. BTW, these 2 different opamp amps produce very different sound. Some of my pals said the difference in sound is just like the sonic difference from tube amp and SS amp. I once owned these 2 opamp, they really produces quite a different type of sound.
No offence, just my 2 cents.
No offence taken. Your opinon and experience is much appreciated. This is just what I have found and what I shared. Rock on !
NAD does something with the hypex modules, creating the NAD sound. Toning down the high frequencies might be one thing. Would be interesting to know exactly what kind of opamps or other components they switched in the m33 and m10.
NAD uses FPGA to customize the sound of whatever modules they use and they also manufacture said modules for their own amps. They do not submit their own versions back to Hypex or Purifi for measurement or testing so we really don't know what changed.
I went to class d and never ever going back to anything else.
Hey Jaye this honest review took some guts, the audioscience fan boys are likely going to freak out on you for this. I agree with your assessment that Class D requires a very sophisticated implementation that is voiced according to experienced ears rather than strictly measurements. Respect!
Audioscience is too hooked up with measurements. The final judge of any hifi system are the ears and emotions of the listener.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 get the bias away and the magic is gone. Its not the spoon that bends...
Which Hypex modules are used in this amp?
NC500
How come the Hypex module are not liked while the purifi amp was super appreciated? They should be almost identical...
Thanks for your honesty 👍
I suspect those Sonic Imagery/Sparkos might be at least part of the problem. They are DESIGNED to manipulate the signal in order to elicit an emotional response from the listener. I think the standard version of the amp is better, simply because that's what Hypex designed it to be.
i agree
I would encourage anyone who has a chance to hear the Nord amps to do so. They are an exceptional sounding amp at a very reasonable price.
I sometimes regret my buying decisions, but the Nords have been something I would do again in a heartbeat. BTW, Pass Labs XP-20 Preamp, solid state.
How it compares to XTZ edge A2-300 power amplifier? Looking for opinions if anyone owes both XTZ and Nord acoustic amplifier.
XTZ icepower sucks, get purifi
Home theater 5.2 setting?
you came after 3 days and the sound was more focused?
I'm confused, the font for the nord acoustics logo and the logo for nord keyboards who make some excellent high quality audio synthesis products from Sweden look almost identical. Seems kinda like someone is playing with fire emulating another companies logo. Sure they aren't in the same exact market, but they are both audio related companies, enough to make me research if Nord Sweden got into the hifi game...
Measurements are valid to spot huge horrible problems or have a very general view of the characteristics of a device... but they do not describe subtleties of the sound at all!!!! Buying an amp thinking It will "sound good" because it measures good is super naive... like thinking you'll like a girl just because she's 5'6''... reality is much more complex and subtle than that.
same as buying an amp based on a subjective review then
@@sparkplug5392 depends on the reviewer. If he/she has a taste similar to you, then a subjective review could add much more information than a "graph based" objective one.
Balanced connection is not a problem. That’s like saying the if you buy a car you might have trouble without a truck bed. You choose to buy balanced.
I am baffled about "break-in" especially with electronics, what breaks in? I can get speakers as the voice coil needs to be exercised as it moves, but chips what changes?
FYI spec of the board is overrated here is actual spec
"Peak output power
400 Watt - 2 Ohm
500 Watt - 4 Ohm
270 Watt - 8 Ohm
Continuous Power 100 Watt"
I replaced my NC500's with the PS Audio M1200's which are better
Please try with a tube preamp. How does that work? LTA?
Did not fix the problem
@@Jayiyagi Thanks
@@Jayiyagi I have NC400 mono, I paired it with Schiit Freya+ and Denafrips AresII and it sounds fine. Of cause it won't fix the top end issue but NCore has good clarity, instrument speration and detail (even in low volume). Also try changing speakers placement it may sound different.
Descriptions of wet, dry, etc are not measurements. Amplifiers faithfully reproduce the input signal increasing the amplitude. Along the way of doing the job, they my introduce noise and distortion, a deviation from an ideal amplification. They also should do a good job maintaining it's output waveform even with complex impedance loads of a loudspeaker. This too is a form of distortion when the output is not a direct representation of the input. This is the damping factor. Damping factor is the inverse of the actual amplifier output impedance. For example a damping factor at speaker terminals on an amp means trying to feed voltage into the output of the amp is met with a low resistance short of a 0.05 ohm load on voltage generated by speaker cone movement. As you can see, adding a long speaker wire of 50 feet of 16AWG speaker wire adds a series path of 100 feet with 0.4 ohms, changing the load on the speaker from 0.05 ohms to 0.45 ohms or a damping factor of 2.2 from the original 20. Yes you have now been introduced to audio engineering 101 in amplifier damping and the effect of speaker cable. The video title mentioned good measurement, then proceeded to use audiophile technobabbel. Engineers precisely measure performance. THD, inverse of damping is known as source impedance, noise, frequency response, rise time, transient response, etc. A good guitar amp for the nice warm sound has poor damping factor, noise, and soft clipping for distortion, coupled with a poorly damped speaker in an open back enclosure. A perfect amp and speaker makes a very clean sound, but missing all the warmth of a guitar amp. Yes this is measurable. No, guitar players do not want to read the specs to find the best guitar amp.
I don't see a single spectrum spectrum analyzer and reference microphone in any of his test equipment. Listen first and measure 2nd.
First measurement I do of any speakers is with the system off, knock on the box sides, top, and center of the back. You can listen with your ears and with a reference microphone and oscilloscope. Does the cabinet resonate? Does it sound like a wood shipping crate, granite tombstone, or polyethylene barrel? This is just the start of testing speaker cabinets. There are more physical and electrical tests for drivers in an enclosure.
I can’t wait to see your review of the upcoming Buchardt I150 amplifier, which uses the hypex NC252. I am still looking and saving for a better integrated amplifier to match my Buchardt S400 (now use the IOTAVX SA3). My next purchase will be either the Buchardt I150 or the Hegel 190. As Mads explained with their amp is that the preamplifier part and their analogue volume control play a crucial role in the overall sound of their amp and makes them move away from the typical class D sound. Just putting an amp in a box like Nord does seems to be much to easy and to picky for the rest of your components to match and chose. For this price the amp should be neutral and the speakers should make the difference. In short Hypex only works in integrated amps I think and what I also noticed is that an amp manufacturer (Hypex) can not just scale their amp design and power apparently. With the increase in power things like brightness/harshness can be amplified to make them more apparent. It is not that simple. I would expect the NC252 sounds a lot more balanced on its own, also from Nord. Maybe give that a try?
My unit just arrived from Audiophonics and I completed some initial frequency response measurements with my calibrated UMIK-1. If we could hear more or less of something in any frequency range it would show up here. Level matched and overlaid, the Hypex nCore NC252MP measures basically identically to my Denon X4500H. This means that either the NC252MP sounds better than the NC500, or that the gear I have sounds the same and I don't have access to the really high end stuff Jay does. Maybe that is what he is comparing to.
Going to have to conclude Jay's test was flawed. Really like the guy but I do not believe these Hypex NCore amps sound anything other than dead neutral - meaning they add zero to your music. Which is exactly what an amp is supposed to do.
Didn't fine any specs for damping factor or slew rate and same for hypex nc400
Nice review. There is a lot of hype about these amplifiers but i ll stick to my Hegel. That been said i auditioned the NAD Ncore amps with B&W top of the line speakers and they sounded great.
Measurements can only help if you measure the right thing. So many measurements are missing in most cases or deliberately chosen to be misleading (e.g. THD at low listening levels instead of high levels)
The issue with Hypex OEM modules is the end product only sounds as good as the opamp implementation.
What if there is no opamp?
Max B. Simonsen then you will have to produce the sound with your mouth if you want to hear something
Totally agreed with you! Why Jay didn't find these amps engaging is because of Nord acoustic's opamp implementation ... the designer thought .. by swapping the input buffer with discrete opamp with better technical spec will get "better" sound .. but the reality of building a great sounding amp has a lot more then just building by spec!
Damping factor varies with the Impedance of the speakers, so it is not an absolute. Normally it is quoted for 8 ohm speakers.
I think that some people translate 'damping factor' into the husky current reserves needed to provide tolerance to the precipitious impedance plunges that some speakers indulge in and that some amps handle badly (not enough current on tap) or not at all (overheating, triggered protector circuit, or a blown final stage) Even before this happens when the power supply can't supply enough current the amplifier will momentarily 'lose control' over the speaker and the music will suffer.
An analogy: if voltage is 'revs', current is 'torque' or 'grunt' (for the car fans in the forum)
A speaker is an electric motor. The voice coil is controlled by the current provided by the amp. If this control is momentarily lost the cone will make extraneous movements. The amp must exercise total control over the linear movement of the coil (versus the magnet) to transduce the signal into sound. Sometimes the speakers 'lose it', are unable to follow pace because of poor design.
Sometimes the fault is in the amp that is unable to control the speaker movement tightly.
@@juanmillaruelo7647 Well, actually the damping factor is simply the rated speaker impedance divided by the amplifier output impedance. e.g. speaker impedance = 6.0 ohms Amp o/p impedance = 0.1 ohms Damping Factor = 60.
Class D amps are usually cold, sterile, clean, bright sounding. It’s better to pair them with a speaker that is close to neutral and the highs roll off quickly. I think the only class D amps that sound warm are the Classe ones. Sorry about your friend passing away - too much crazy stuff going on right now.
It is also better to pair them with a tube pre-amp
@@dannyng5427 I did but did not help much in this case. I used the modwright ls100 and lta mz3
@@amb3cog I agree.I made this mistake too but note that all the stigmas attached to class D designs were due to real problems in the early days of its design
I agree with the Hypex. I have tried NC400 / NC500. both are a bit on the lean and sterile side. However, don't generalize to all class D amp. Nuprime class D amps are very different sounding.
HH Scott thank you. I have only heard and owned three class D amps thus my experience is anecdotal. But from what I have read on audioholics , heard from other amp manufacturers and a 2005 study it seems that class D amps measure well but sonically they are not pleasant to listen to.
Don't these Nord amps come with OPA1612 op-amps as stock? Were the amps too bright even with stock op-amps? Sparkos and Sonic Imagery discrete op amps have many fans, but IME, many expensive discrete op amps, while improving many things, do tend to sound more tilted up in treble compared to common non-discrete op-amps.
Interesting! This is exactly how I hear Ice power as well. So far, Class D, H, etc has let me down. I SO wish I could get Class D or Ice to sound as good as decent Class AB. I will never forget a friend bringing over his powerful 2 Channel highly modded icepower amplifier. This was from an extremely respected company, supposed to be doing the best work with class D. The amps price was $3,000. My friend and I both agreed my thousand dollar Marantz receiver sounded much better. He returned the amp the next day
Yup same here. I have a multichannel amp I use for an active setup with 6x Icepower asp500's. Clean -- yes! But there's more to the story... A sort of lean, dry, sharp, glare not unlike what he says about the Ncores. Not sure why this is, maybe the SMPS??
@@Canadian_Eh_I simple, you like how marantz’s AB amps are colored more than accurate/neutral amps.
The Icepower amp you mentioned, which was most likely from PS Audio, was fed it's signal by the same Marantz receiver's pre outs? No surprise there. The new Icepower amps are better than their previous amps but not in the same league with Hypex / Purifi.
You just like colored amps, it's that simple.
Yes, yes and yes!!! That is why i keep servicing and upgrading my vintage amps too. Just cant find a good sounding class D ( that is obtainable to me, that is ) amplifier. And not everyone can spend $20K+ on an amp. Only ( Hybrid ) class D that i liked was Devialet. But they also use small 10Watt class A amp in conjunction with their class D. To me, class D is like an electric car. It has power, performance,...but it keeps missing the most important thing...The SOUND!!!
Hey Jaye, you should take a look at Audio-GD.
It's rare for me to see you so disappointed with a piece of equipment, Jay...you're a sincere guy, and you really look disappointed with these monoblocks...and ultra high damping factor? LOL...maybe 10 to the power of 6...hmm, just really interesting that the company can't put a number on paper...and yes, you're right on with disturbing blue led's...never understood why companies use these bright led's...i have to put a thin layer of blu tack over the blue led light on my tube integrated amp in the bedroom, otherwise it's blindingly bright for late night listening...this is a good and honest review...much appreciated...makes me think twice about this hypex module...the gan power module might be better.
I just watched this and was wondering if you had considered trying the buffer with an OPA627, I find this opamp to be very warm and full sounding. I higly recommend this. Thx
October 2019 I built a Class D based on the purifi 1et400a modules with hypex smps1200a700 power supply, thinking it would be the best class D to date, great amp but I share a lot of the same experiences you have with the Nord monoblocks. It has not been used for the last 6 months I have another amp I prefer. Your review is great nothing wrong with your ears!
Purifi is being touted by many as the best thing since sliced bread, so I'm disappointed to hear that. Perhaps changing to a different (possibly linear) power supply is the answer with these class-D boards?
Any plans on selling them?
both icepower and hypex has developed new class D modules now, example amps are the NAD C 298 with Purifi and EDGE A2-400 with IcePower 400A2.
i am really curious if anything has improved.
C£2K Nord NC500 + 300 hour run in = The best amp for the money (MK2 even better).
The wording used makes it feel to me more like an attach to Nord acoustic than a review :) wonder if there is some interest at play. Anyway if it helps people in trying to make an informed decision on which audio gear to buy I suggest that you hear it for yourself in your own system if possible with your own music. Aside other gear I have a ice based (class D) Nord acoustic and I could not be happier with it, very transparent and revealing without changing the source sound signature in any way...or having a bright presentation. Oh yes, and it drivers the woofers with immense authority! I am running with an RME DAC and a pair of Ektagrande (wonderful speaker by the way). Happy listening :)
Sorry to be off-topic but is Apollon out of business? No replies to email and now their website is gone.
Any chance you could compare schiit aegir to a first watt sometime
I have the same amps as long as a few other Class A and ClassAB amps and all I can say is that is a matter of taste.
The Nords are extremely neutral amplifiers and very well balanced across all the entire frequency range. Of all the amps I've tried, and I have to say I have the opportunity to try very high end gear because of my business.
Nord Acoustic amps are super transparent in presentation and will expose any deficiencies your speakers may have.
I don't agree that the Nords are by any means bright at all, but very informative across the entire frequency range. With no roll off at both ends as many amps do.
With a properly designed speaker where the phase integration between drivers is precisely achieved and where your final sound is thoroughly balanced, you will be rewarded with one of the most incredible holographic presentations you will ever hear.
Saying this though, in my presentation I found people do prefer a more meaty amp presentation so that's why I have other amps to show the differences.
What about pairing a class D with a meatier sounder pre-amp? Have you managed to experiment with that at all?
@@owood2288 Most of the preamps I have and used tend to be pretty neutral. Some a tad less revealing and other super transparent.
I did not tried the Nords with a tube preamp yet, but like anything, you have to try and see. When you have a good sounding system is all about gear matching to find the sound you like
i was considering these same amplifiers as my new speakers these amps was recommended. but decided to go with Audio GD
If this unit is measured well, doesn't it mean this amp is neutral (rather than cold and thin) and most other amps are on the warm side of neutral? (Honest question)
measuring well does not always guarantee neutrality. Especially in real-life applications. Most measurements are done in controlled environments.
Same thing as how you measure the flight speed of a bird in a controlled room... bring it to the real world and you realize it is much slower than your measurement due
to factors that may not have been accounted for in the testing room (ex. wind)
@@Jayiyagi So I assume this amp actually doesn't measure "well" in your listening room? (E.g. tilted high frequencies)
@@Jayiyagi that just does not Make Any sense at all
People who haven’t heard gear commenting on how it SOUNDS becuz=muh measurements. These folks need to just STFU and listen before they comment.
They act like somebody in line next to you at Baskin Robbins, tendering all kinds of opinions on ice cream they haven’t actually tasted.... but they read the chemistry report. Maybe they’re right. But they don’t know.
And Jay tested these amps on all kinds of speakers from Focal, etc. not just the Buchardts.
Good for you, Jay. Keep actually listening!
I bought same nord accoustic nc500 amp stereo version, but they sounded exactly as you described which was not my cup of tea sound, I contact them and returned the amps ! then bought class a/b amp which is much more musical if that valid word
Try running it through to the speaker 150 watt candescent or halogen light bulb this will take the harshness away.
I ended up keeping a D class amp to run my Magnapan 20.7 power hungry monsters. The amp run neutral leaning on cool side. Once I mated the amp with a tube pre-amp all issues were removed and an amazing warm sound radiated from my speakers. I suggest evaluation of this hardware for a future review?
Link: www.d-sonic.com
Marcus Conn
What tube pre did you match with it, and what type of tubes does it use? Thanks! 🎶🔊🙂
@@NickP333 I used this little guy. I rolled the tubs with some Russian tubes, much improved sound.
Link: www.ebay.com/itm/YAQIN-SD-CD3-6N8P-Valve-Tube-Signal-Upgrade-Buffer-Processor-for-CD-DVD-player/312199520290?hash=item48b08aa022:g:4lsAAOSwUrlbWV0F
@@moktaabdul6310 A very passionate man.
balanced-xlr-female-to-unbalanced-rca-female-adapter-interconnect?
Not really. Nord D class poweramp has great sound, edge sharp resolution, deep and wide soundstages, sufficient power for most speaks. It's perfectly matched with my Dynaudio Confidence C2 for playing large scale orchestral music.
dynaudio is low efficiency muddy shit in general, thats whay you like d class
That's a lot of heatsinking for a class D amplifier and I'm of the opinion that you can't have too much heatsinking but why is one of the heatsinks unused? Given that heatsinks and power supplies are the most expensive parts of an amplifier it doesn't make sense to me, maybe I'm missing something?
the heatsink is not all connected, mostly for show.
It would be interesting to compare these to the schiit monoblocks (which would be cheaper than these... at least in the US)
ive eard icepower amp in my system, what i felt- it sounds better than most 300 usd amplifiers and is more powerful. But i could not listen to it, there was somethign very unnatural and grainy in the mids that i cold not listen to it, it was so artificial. Presence as also much less than with the tube or A class SS amplifiers
Measurements can tell you how it will sound if you know how to interpret them, and NC500 isn't an exception. I looked at its measurements and could tell it sounds dry because little to no 2nd harmonic distortion, and a flat frequency response at any impedence with only half a db rolloff at 20khz means no coloration at all, wich sounds cold and a bit bright; and that's exactly how you described it.
With class D, you should always have tubes in your system, specifically for the 2nd harmonic distortion, and a bit for the little coloration they introduce; and it makes a fantastic sounding combo. The tube sound but with a powerfull solid state control, authority and effortlessness, basically.
By the way, hypex specs for the damping is over 800 at any frequency, if remember correctly.
Look at a copper wire table. Short 12 AWG 10 foot cables have 20 feet round trip, for a resistance of 1.588miliohms per foot, or 0.03 ohms. Damping is the inverse of resistance. Amp source impedance at the terminals is 0.00125 ohms, plus the wire of 0.03176 ohms for a total of 0.004426 ohms and a final damping factor of 226, an excellent damping factor.
A good DSP can add all the warmth you desire from a system. A good DSP can not mask or eliminate problems introduced by a bad system. Start with a good clean system. Add noise, distortion, EQ, compression, reverb, etc to your hearts desire to suit to taste. A perfect sound system will sound the same as the source.
@@isettech What is the point of having a an amplifier if you must put a eq on it to sound good?
@@isettech A perfect sound system will be the system that your ears want to hear, not what sounds flat. Flat is something that sounds exactly as the source.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 Cause it has other pros, you will pay a lot more for to get elsewhere
@@oysteinsoreide4323 You answerd your own question, whats the point of adding eq you say? So why do you do it by not having an flat amp? Any amp that colors the sound is the same as EQ... only pernament one so much muuuch worse than true EQ