Testing New Kennametal Tangential Mill 4-12 in 316 Stainless | DMG MORI | Vlog #61
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.พ. 2019
- VLOG #61 | CNC Machining - Titan tests the Kennametal Mill 4-12 KT- Tangential Shoulder Mill in 316 Stainless on DMG MORI DMU 50.
Buy the KMT Mill 4-12 (Tangential Cutter) from Kennametal direct, Kennametal Konnect or an authorized distributor.
Find more info on the Kennametal Tangential cutter here:
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#dmgmori #kennametal #machining - บันเทิง
Titan, Thanks for the video.
I work for Kennametal in the manufacturing plant those inserts came from. I am going to show this video to my team members so they can see the product they make in action.
Really like seeing the speeds and feeds on the screen like this! Keep up the good work!
I also agree but it would be really handy if they showed the metric sizes also
Iscar have been using Tangential cutters for many years now. But the best on the market IMO right now are the Mitchubishi cutters referring to the 25mm range. But the Iscar 50mm highfeed roughing cutter is by far the market leader. I have used the kennametal as well, not as fast and durable. All ran on DMG MORIs.
Love to see you guys do video on feed mills. Stellaram/Kennametal has a awesome feed mill I run in 304L SS.
It flat out rips!
Great review. Thanks for the explanation as to the purpose of the design, and the application. It's important to learn not only how but when to use a tool.
SS 316 is like 80% of the material I mill, tip cutters i
I always run without coolant wear on the insert is better than with coolant #Titan thanks for this series i love it alot.
This is the rebirth of the Hertel facemill insert used in the mid 90s. They were by far the toughest insert design around.
Yes, I was sure I had seen it before.
I think you are right. If you google Hertel it takes you to the Kennametal site. Used a 6” Hertel face mill back in the 90s. Was a high production tool for sure. Also loved the turning tools that used the same insert. Couldn’t beat them on long skinny shafts.
You are an amazing hero for me as beginning cnc machinist
Hi I think the percentage step over is important as it alters the part of the tip that touches metal first. Ie the edge of the insert or the face. If the edge of the insert is hitting the metal first its a weak point opposed to the face of the insert impacting first. Titan, please do a video on probing. I only see videos on taking offsets. I would like to see how to use in conjunction with fusion to check features in the cycle. Thanks for your good work. BOOOOM
Great, I love that you, guys, read my message and correct the error
Thanks, Problem was... I knew what it was but fumbled on camera. So as soon as I saw it, I was like ahhhh :-(
Gotta fix it cause quality is everything
RESPECT and LOVE GOES OUT TO TITAN ,HIS TEAM and CHANNEL on youtube
love this ! good work. keep it up. BOOOM! from the uk
Thanks for your Hard works and love Made in the USA
Awesome as always... BOOM
There used to be a company named Titan TMG here that used to make portal mills with 10 meter rotary tables, but they got liquidated like in 2004.
Notice you are favoring the Moris over the Haas for this heavy milling, We have 2 Fadals, one linear for 3d profiling the other box way, The heaver cutting scenarios go on the box way with low gear :0)
I'm using the same type of tool in 1.25 dia. And another 2.5" and 4" and they work well for cast steel. We actually use the 4" with air only.
Lowkey expected Titan to straight up bury this bad boy in a full slotting cut just for lols
gonna def buy one, thx for the vid man
oh really?!
I wonder how much this tool is gonna cost before jumping with such statements
they make allot of noice but they are beasts
the harder u push them the better they work !
try them on inconel and be amazed , just dont be afraid to realy push it !
i feed these full boddy with and 6 mm deep all day in hardend 4140
TITANNNNN dude i miss doing this thankyou
Awesome video!!! Would you be able to make some videos on your thought process when it come's to make fixture and for multiple parts as well as single set ups? How are you going to hold the part is probably the most important thing in machining. i love everything you do for this community i hope to meet you one day. Thank You so much for everything you have done!!!
Will do more and already did... check out past Vlogs on our channel.
When profiling around the block with low radial engagement, you'll need to increase feed per tooth in order to maintain correct chip thickness.
Kennametal self centering drill aka go drill. Lovely for production
Awesome ! Liking the DMU 50 3rd gen. [ One day can you do something about hard-milling ? ]. Looking forward to the 4140 vid. (That's a big depth of carbide and it's not brittle.).
Changing the cutter design/position doesn't make the insert any less/more brittle. It's just making it virtually thicker, which compensates for that brittleness.
The toughest parts I’ve ever machined out of 316 were a 3 op lathe followed by a 4th axis milling operation (mill op by someone else) I had to hold .003 con through 3 ops and a 6 micron finish on a burnisher and cut threads with a tin coated insert. It was terribly difficult.
I'd love to see a face mill that the tormach can handle. I know some guys have found some smaller 1-2" mills but i'm curious to see what you can swing on it.
fly cutters are always a good choice, check nycnc they do a lot of tormach work
I like your all videos, it's useful for me
I'd like to see this tool used after it's dirty, the change the inserts and see if they don't break.
Hi, America!
The Leader in tangential cutters is Ingersoll since 80-th. Next one was Walter AG. F2265 cutter.
The others as Iscar, Seco, Tizit, Kenna are makng a replica of Ingersoll tangential solution.
We use garant and sandvik for X210CrW12 1.2436
Hey Titan, thank you for the awesome videos and education. Any tips on milling H13 tool steel? I'm going to use the parts as aluminum forging molds.
Amazing video as always Titan. Is it at all possible to add metric feeds, speeds and depths of cut for your upside down cousins in australia in your future videos.
Went through that stainless like butter
Hallo Titan
Warum benutzt du keine haas Maschinen mehr?
Iscar has been making tang cutters for years!
I am from India. And I Like Video that you made. I am also Interested in Designing and CNC Machining.
titan, with this tool, try out to pump up the speed and RPM, but go less deep... I think that is better suited for your machines. Also, it could use a little more RPM without any other increases... the load on the carbide inserts will be lower that way.
In stainless steel with cutting inserts, compressed air from the inside of the tool together with external air cooling that contains a little bit of oil works way better then cooling water! Materials like this have often a hard skin. Around 2mm. When cutting the side walls of the part conventional milling (ccw) works better when removing the hard skin because the flutes will form the chip in soft condition and leave the part in hard condition. After the hard skin is removed change to climb milling (cw). Please teach them this advice!!
If we had to mill down the hole part :-) with this tool I would try to use the hole lengths of the flutes (12mm) with less (ae) side stepover so we can apply the wear on 12 mm instead of around 3.5.
I love your answer! Don´t understand why Titan doesn´t know that. I work in a company how only works with 316l and super aloys and we also mill with compressed air and only for finishing with water...
Really nice tool. How small can you get such a cutter. This tool would actually be a great help at the shop I work at. We are dropping in holes as small as 5/16, or 3125 for to mill c'bores to .875 with .125 depth. Cobalt is creeping at 6-8 ipm in stainless.
Hey Titan, I recently started a hybrid manufacturing business. I machine a lot of soft plastics for molds and stuff but i can't figure out how to use Fusion360 efficiently with tapered endmills. It's like, 3d contour isn't made to handle tapered mills. If you have a few tips on this it would really help me kick it up a notch. Keep on going with these info video, this stuff is gold!
I think John Saunders NYCCNC has a video on side milling with tapered EM.
Do you do any G&M code for Hass lathes and how to put a chamfer with a cut off tool
People have been calling it the dump truck cutter because it moves material!
Please make a solid carbide end milling video on 4140.
Seco, WNT/Ceratizit and others are doing these cutters for years now. Not bashing or anything but to say they’re unique... 😅
I was also surprised that kennametal hasn't done these before. I even checked out from kennametals website and didn't find any other tangential cutters..
They actually have had the technology for a long long time as they purchased a company that specialized in it. They have now added some unique features which they have a patent on and also are using advanced carbide etc.
TITANS of CNC: Academy Can you tell us what the unique features are?
We first bought Iscar T490 6 years ago and now recently switched to Walter tangential. These tools have been out on the market for years so there's nothing exclusive about that. Kennametal will never beat Walter - why? Start from their homepage - no drawings, no parameters etc. Nothing to talk about, Walter wins.
Actually.... Kennametal has had their fix perfect tangential milling line in cast iron for a very long time. They were one of the first companies with a tangential design.
Holy smokes Titan. Nice bits . Wonder how much that block of stainless is worth lol ?
Very interesting Titan! Can you do a vlog on machining non ferrous metals ie copper,bronze..? Speeds and feeds and coolant?
Yes, will do
I need that information too. I work with brass. (Copper - Zinc).
Well, for copper, aluminium and various of their alloys, it`s recommend to use coolant.
Not in every case, but in the most.
@@MrCOD13579 What's so funny about brass??
I second that request. Hate to say how much money I've wasted trying to get a consistently good finish on copper. I machine a LOT of copper and I really need a mirror finish.
#TITAN I would just like advice on getting my shop up and running, you built an empire, I'm curious where to go from here.
hey titan do you always face mill stainless steal with coolant? not dry?
How do I get that same torq wrench from Kenna at 8:25. We need something similar and compact like that. Folks are damaging too much screws here by overtightening them. Any help appreciated. Greetings from Brazil!
I like the KM4X Taper, wonder why that never took off. As well as the km16 lathe toolholders with changeable heads.
Never took off because compared to Sandvik Coromant Capto KM 4X is weak and nowhere near as rigid. Sandvik capto is without a doubt best spindle interface made and it hasn’t changed since it was introduced in 1990. Look at how many machine tool builders that build their machines with Capto spindles. Far more Capto than KM.
@@revisbest exactly
I am liking this tool more and more. I would like to see how much material this cutter can remove before insert flip. I use ingersol now square insert titanium/stainless grade 2.00face 5fl 52deg rips through 316SS. .06 depth full dia s500 feed 60IPM.With coolant. 4.00 inches of material removed before insert flip. If I can get 7.00 inches removed well the tool is sold. I will have this tool. New subscriber looking forward to the next video Thanks...
Love it Titan, could you use a porcupine cutter to rough the outside in one pass, would the dmg take the torque? Would love to here your thoughts, cheers in advance
"Any" machine can use a helical indexable EM. It just matters how hard you want to push it. The dmg 50 can for sure.
Hi guys have you ever used plunge milling. 🤔🤔
Can you come down to roseville high and teach us about using the haas tm1p
Would love to come down sometime... Jacob has been there a few times.
The inserts look like the configuration developed by Hertel, which got bought up by Kennametal a few years ago.
I’m pretty sure they purchased them a long long time ago... and now have taken the technology to the next level.
Actually 1993
I've been running a couple kennametal tangential insert face mills for at least 14 years the difference is the insert geometry is updated now and there's a screw rather than a retention rod.
It's not my favorite cutter but the cutter bodies are still like new. They can take a lot of punishment
TITANS of CNC: Academy yes 1993. Sandvik could have purchased hertel but decided not to when they saw they didn’t have anything better than what Sandvik Coromant had. Sandvik Coromant is worldwide leader in metalcutting not Kennametal .
Hi Titan, great video. I was wondering what control you have on the DMU, is it the Siemens or the Heidenhein? We are getting a DMU 85 with the Heidenhein TNC 640. I don't like the control choice, but Management is driving the choice. If the Heidenhein, what do you think of it?
Don Jones I’ve used both and you won’t be disappointed. I like HH but Siemens 840 is really good as well you’ll actually wonder why people bother with anything else.
Don't be put off with the heidenhain it's a brilliant control, I'm sure you will change your mind once you've had a play with it.
When u want to program a part at the machine and not through CAM nothing can beat Heidenhain controls
I have a couple of noob questions.
#1 - I've noticed this issue on almost any part after it has been surfaced/faced whether on your channel or others. In this video, after the tool has made all of it's passes you can see "lines" on the part roughly equal to the depth or width of the cut. Are these "lines" actually measurable ridges or is it just a visual effect. It gives me (a novice) the appearance that the machine is incapable of making a "perfect" cut all the way down or across the part. Is this part of what is allowed in the tolerances chosen or is it just visual and actually "perfect"?
#2 - If the carbide insert has 2 cutting sides, does the portion of the actual tool/mill that is directly behind the unused cutting edge of the insert provide support and rigidity to the carbide insert or does the screw that attaches the insert to the mill actually carry all of that shearing load? It seems to me that after you have used up most of one side of the carbide insert and then flip it to the new side, it would not be touching the tool any longer because of the wear.
Thanks Titan(and team)!
So the Lines look worse than they are and are smooth to the touch. Of course the deeper the cut, the more pressure... which could create a deeper line... your dealing with tenths though and if you lighten the cut, it’s completely smooth...
Front has 2 cutting edges and also the back for a total of 4
The inserts are designed so they sit in a pocket so after you index the insert the used cutting edge never interacts with the pocket hopefully that answers your question Multifamily Electrical
@@metalman6708 or buy a profilometer
@@metalman6708 Give them a comparator, which is left to subjectivity or a profilometer, which takes all the guess work out and let's you know whether you've met the requirement or not?
I can't afford guessing, and newbies tend to guess more poorly than experienced blokes, so yeah...
The tool has 4 cutting edges as than said, and you will ALWAYS see lines like that. The surface variation (whether you can feel them or measure them) has to do with your feeds and speed, tool deflection, rigidity, etc. If you're shredding through a cut, and the tool is deflecting, you'll feel them more. In the scenario on the video, you would finish that side wall up with a long EM and cut the whole height at once as a finish pass at a few thou step over. That will remove all the lines and surface deviations. Oh, and the insert is supported by the tool. That picket it sits in takes the load, and the cutting edges of the insert aren't touching the tool.
do you do press brakes too?
Titan, stupid question. Did you learn to machine on computers or were you taught old school with lathes and mills?
I know this video is over two years old and the answer to my question may be answered in a more recent vid, so bear with me. On the side milling, with such a shallow radial engagement, would/could a faster speed/feed be employed, using the "high speed roughing" theory of higher RPM, with substantially higher feed?
Do you have classes for aspiring machinist in Alabama
Do you think there are any downsides to a tangential style shell mill vs a tradional shell mill?
The Core is wider & stronger on a tangential
@@TITANSofCNC I was asking if there are any downsides to Tangental Cutters. Like is there any situation that you would prefer a standard style of shell mill over a Tangental cutter?
Hey Titan. I keep breaking small carbide endmills such as 2-3 mm diameter. I don't have any problem with diameter 4mm and bigger endmills. I do feed and speed calculations. I machine aluminum most of the time, chips look good but is there any trick for not breaking small endmills? Thank you.
With small endmills in aluminium you have to keep the sfpm as high as your spindle will allow. A 2mm Endmill for example has to be run 6-7 times more rpm's to achieve the same sfpm as a 12mm or 1/2" endmill. Unless you have a 20000 plus RPM spindle it's impossible to do that. Therefore you have to reduce the chipload by reducing depth of cut or by reducing the feed you are pushing it at. Combined that with the fact that carbide it's extremely brittle and the web thickness of those tiny endmills just can't handle the same chipload. Which means even slower feed. It's not exciting to watch but it gets the job done. Or Take multiple cuts of only .010 deep as fast as you want to prevent breakage. Without knowing exact rpm capability, workholding and tooling used I'm just guessing.
Oh and make sure you got great coolant flow. The tiny endmills don't clear chips as well. Because aluminum produces stringy chips and tiny endmills have tiny flutes.
It's fun though isn't it?
@@drewjohnson4794 thank you for the answer. It has been a year since I posted the question. I found a sweet spot for 3mm endmills and I avoid using 2 mm most of the time. I tried a similar approach to your answer and it was successful.
Do you ever cut D2 steel?
Hello Everyone,
I just purchased an older Haas Mill and use a older version of MasterCam where can I get a post processor at the ones I've been using are for prototrak and eztrak mills
if you go on the mastercam forum there are usually good resources for figuring out how to edit posts.
Typically we do not run coolant on our indexable tools due to thermal shock. I would be interested in tool life with and without coolant. I also realize your cutting stainless and the stuff is gummy, do not want to recut chips stuck to the side.
cnc dmg mori use siemens 840d. how to make drill in mastercam. please help me! thanks u. my name is Than, Vietnamese
has this been uploaded again? Previous comments not there.
Ya, I made a mistake and someone caught it... Quality is everything so we made the correction.
@@TITANSofCNC Thanks for the reply. In the video, the surface finish wrt the profiling looks a bit rough. A close up would have been nice, but I'm happy to take your word for it being OK.
@@debonh3828 it doesn't really matter if it's rough. That was rough milling. Rough milling is just that, rough. The tool is meant to remove mass material, not provide a perfect surface finish.
Titan, why are you "married" with Kennametal?, I mean, it is a good brand, but, that's it... good, not awesome/outsanding, there are many other cutting tool brands (solid and indexable) that gives better speeds and feeds, technical support, reliability and WAY cheaper than kennametal. Just want to know..
Greetings, love the content.
He is married to Kennametal because he probably gets everything for free. I guarantee it, especially since he keeps saying Kennametal. It's WAY overpriced. Like everything you said, I agree with.
What happened to the Schunk Vero-S system Titan?
I still have it, and love it.
Was using it on a different machine for a different application.
TITANS of CNC: Academy and you should haha. We have it on all out Mills nowadays. The Okuma Mb46 and VF-2SS and UMC-750 all have a 6x station. All our vises, clamping devices and fixtures have the 25mm holes and studs under them. Very good stuff.
Probably also truely expensive as these are special inserts for this thing. Basically not something like APMK etc.
Why are the edges already so used up? Should that thing not ever touch anything?
Iscar has these insert already
If i understand the tool correctly, its only 2 corners insert, therefore it is very expensive. If you check widia's vsm890, it does the same work, faster and cheaper, every insert has 8 corners!
Fischer 977, if it's the same type tool/inserts I'm using as we speak in three different sizes and insert specs. One exactly like the one he is using they do have 4 edges per insert, use,rotate on hold down bolt(screw), flip,rotate again
Is it ever worth cutting away excess material prior to CNC?
Yes.... depends on part and how your material comes in
@@TITANSofCNC Thanks Titan! Your story is amazing.. I have a very similar one, that is still playing out, so I have some idea of what you went through to get here.
How it works on full slots?
no worry about thermo shock running coolant on an insert cutter like that.....?...i typically run them dry...
chris martins exactly. They should run dry inserts would last longer
Nothing new. Iscar Helitang has been around for many years. Tangential cutters are the workhorses of our shop. Good job with the educational add for kenemetal. Lots of good info for beginners.
Monday’s TITANS of CNC TH-cam Vlog is going to be Awesome! Just Straight Getting After It In 4140 Steel... With The NEW Kennametal Tangential Shoulder Mill.
A little history lesson since some have been confused. Hertel an old German Tool Maker developed the technology, along with the old Ingersoll (Who used Kennametal Carbide) back in the 80’s. In 1993 Kennametal purchased Hertel and has owned this technology for decades... When Ingersoll broke up, many of the top engineers went to work for Kennametal. Today, is a new day and Kennametal has taken the technology to new heights... “New Patents & Yes, New Heights”.
I don't get it, if only sky is the limit, why you dont put it on Makino and go 12 mm deep slotting. This material removal looks slower then with that Zomby mill. I know that is stainless stell but still
Hii dude it's nice video
Sir I want face spiral international programme. But not use macro
I want to know specs for cutting p20
*what brand torx torque wrench is that*
SosaltySereezy looks like wiha
Does anyone happen to know what brand of torque screwdriver titan is using in the video?
Dave R looks like wiha
cool
Actually this is not unique to Kennametal , I have Iscar cutters of this type that are 2 years old. Having said that, this type of cutter works great.
Looks like Seco.
this Tool looks exactly like SUMOtec from ISCAR
just a tip don't use coolant when rough cutting stainless steel whit insert cutter ;)
Please, put subtitles in videos
Try Komet! They're much better! Specialty tools like no ones business.
I go to the tool websites like Kennametal , Iscar and others but they say to contact my local supplier. I contact them and a few days later they call me back, I ask for a certain tool that I saw on the website. They don't carry any stock and will have to order the tool I want. It will be drop shipped from the tool manufacturer. What?? Wouldn't it be much simpler and quicker to just order it from the tool website?
Sounds like a crazy system to me. So complex when it doesn't need to be. Just sell me the tool and inserts Kennametal, let me pay for it on your site and ship it to me.
You can order directly from Kennametal or through Kennametal Konnect. They also have a new program called 1st Choice, where as 80% of everything you need in Machining is guaranteed in stock and to ship the same day.
not so sure about this, high feed mills still seem better, at least for the applications shown in this video
High feed mills are meant for cavity work, they like full engagement. Not profiling. They will work, but not as well.
Great explanations on the tool definitions and the usage of the torque wrench when tightening the insert screws. Loved the Visiport window as well! www.visiport.com/
Tool Speeds ans freeds Overcloking..
In german, tangetial messerkopf...wenn das leichter ist :-D
High tech machine dmg Mori
I just wish Kennametal manufactured where they were founded, instead of moving and costing hundreds of people their jobs so they could save a buck.
wouldn't call it getting after it at all...
I have a much smaller much less rigid machine and I'm running a smaller tool in 316L and getting better removal rates than even the last pass.
I understand if you couldn't push it hard because its a demo tool but the numbers were not at all impressive.
Definitely wasn’t... just showing safe, good numbers that present a starting point for Machinists... of course your machines HP has a lot to do with it
TITANS of CNC: Academy good to know. When you can would love to see that thing shredding
Walter Blaxx
My dear sir, can i get a job offer in there..? Please,🙏
Using imperial system on a DMU is
blasphemy.
The processors hate imperial, especially when trying to perform simultaneous machining on 5 axis.