Grief Reanimate Grief is just so much better than Dark Ritual, Hymm, Thoughtseize, especially because you can reanimate your oppos stuff, run Entomb, swap out lands for Trolls, etc. Hard to Pox when the best discard is a creature. That being said, I think you still can if you play Bowmaster and sac the token?
This is probably the best deck for four copies of Encroach to go into. I had a play set in a pox deck once and it was incredible. They’re really only useful in your opening hand. It’s a super all-in card.
I run a very similar list to this that I affectionately call sinkhole scam and encroach is in the list over thoughtsieze. Is it worse? Yes. Is it really funny when it wins games or eats FOW? Also yes
44:00 I’m sure someone already pointed this out, but you could also swing and sac the blood token to activate fatal push (assuming they didn’t have the plow ofc)
Love the discussion on deck focus. One of my favorite things to listen to in your videos tbh, that being your thought process on refining decks. Is there an eternal glory podcast on deck focus and refinements? Asides from the opportunity cost one. Im curious, did you ever consider upping the fulminator mage count, and making that part of a midgame scap type deal, where you could feasibly destroy all the lands a deck had in a game?
That's another direction to take it, but not one I considered. Sinkhole at two mana is already a bit slow. I don't know that I want to max out on Fulminators that are a full mana more expensive than that.
I have to admit my legacy experience, as such, is limited to observation. Tho I know the cards from kitchen table. Anyways is 13:59 goblins red good stuff now? I was interested to see the TS resolve. I didn't see the whole deck, but if they're playing 4 ring that seems less goblin y, but IDK. I can't deal with the MTGO. I make a lot of typos and I like to be able to backspace.
That wasn't necessarily the most stock build in the world, but many Goblins decks are experimenting in the wake of the Sticker Goblin banning to see how to exist in the post-ban world. Cards like The One Ring, for example, are popping up more.
I wonder if a Crucible of Worlds could be a consideration for the deck (Even as a 1-of). Obviously amazing when looping Wasteland, but also as a means of constantly growing Stalactite/keeping Push live (And thinning the deck).
Hey, in match 3 in the second game you didn't have bowmaster triggers, 'cause there was a leyline in play (Just couldn't keep it to myself, sorry and have a great day:з)
I'm going to sound like a desingenuous grifter but here goes. I had made a BG list with sinkhole + Smallpox. Adding Mox Diamond and Life from the loam was the aim, topping off with Sheoldred, Saga and Endurance. I was thinking about sending the list but then a few stuff showed up and i really felt my lack of competitive play kicking in. Coincidentally, Phill seemed to get tired of Smallpox lists , especially since its not really a game winning card. However, i really think LFTL + Mox can really shake up the list.
@@ThrabenUniversity agreed. When i quit the exercise i was asking myself why wouldnt one just play lands or plain pox, whilst beseech and scam were starting to take over the black pie. Also not many legacy staples with death triggers, if memory serves me right, so smallpox would have a hard time to retain value, thats nic-unfit
I have been on the receiving end of wasteland + surgical extraction, and been severely punished by it. I can only imagine wasteland + sinkhole + grief + thoughtsieze and then some surgical extractions in the mix could be backbreaking for some decks. If you surgical away all of rescaminator's USeas, then they have what, like 2 basics and a surveil land? Also just surgical away their reanimation targets. Could this have some play in this meta?
Dear Sir, I'm more interested in the deck tech and the ideas behind the choices than the gameplay. If you have the time, maybe you can have the extended deck techs in separate videos. I know it is not for everyone
the reason you dont play greif is that the spirit of the deck is that you dont have to care about the cards in hands they cannot cast it anyway yes greif reanimated is super good but also super boring some time I feel your are playing reanimator with a side flavor it my problem but that how I feel
really wish you stop playing exsanguinator cavalry. It eats every single removal available in the format and it requires dark ritual to be playable when as a fact if you put dark ritual in any deck you're just better off doing something else with it. Just saying... t2 dark ritual sheoldred is not a particularly thrilling play but still miles better than t1 dark ritual exsanguinator cavarly. At least it taxes combo and doesn't die to bolt. In the end the horseman didn't win you a single game.
I LOVE alternate wincons in card games and the variety of play patterns they encourage (Hedron Alignment, anyone?), but man, it's just no fun when they end up being that easy. There's no effort to Thoracle
@@sheepy403 exactly. It’s gotcha bullshit that completely ruins the play experience. I have no idea why it is allowed to exist. People say it’s a FOW check or whatever, but that is lazy equivocating to cater to entitled blue mages and combo obsessives who are nowhere near as smart as they think they are with their trashy, on-easy-mode, wombo combo decks. Some people seem to want to do whatever it takes to play as little mtg as possible or to make the play experience as miserable as possible.
@@ThrabenUniversity Totally fair, thank you. It's worth us acknowledging when our word choices are way too extreme for gripes that come down to "I don't think this card is very fun" and are disrespecting very real issues. @patloboyko1164 a reminder that previous comments can be edited.
You should have just named this video "scammed yet again" You would have save me the watch time of skipping the deck tech. So I guess I been scammed yet again. From now on when I see a black deck on this channel I will just assume it's scam and skip the vids.
Good. We don't need your loser mentality. This deck was awesome and led to some sweet gameplay. ThrabenU is one of the best scam deck builders. He has a super intuitive understanding of the archtype and its always interesting the hear him think through his thought process. If you cant be bothered to read the description, then do us all a favor
Do you build your blue decks without Ponder and Brainstorm? Do you build your red decks without Lightning Bolt or your white ones without Swords to Plowshares? A fundamental part of black decks in Legacy right now is the Scam shell. It is THE most powerful thing to be doing for a fair black deck. To ignore that is to innately put yourself at a disadvantage. I can get away with playing some cute and fun things on this channel, but for those to be successful, I need to support them with format staples.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA Finals D1 | Fall | ยิงต้องโหด ให้เหมือนโกรธกันมาก่อน](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OnTdfGySmds/mqdefault.jpg)
6:20 This is already very enlightening. So cool to see a B&R indirect collab too
Oh, don't worry about game 2 in round 3. Opponent had a Leyline of Sanctity, the Bowmasters couldn't target them.
I see Sinkhole, I click
[Neuron activated]
I live for deeper dives at the start
58:00 the fact that Phil's battlefield zooms out too is deeply funny to me :3
That horsie is so lonely
This is the most pox list I've ever seen to not run pox
Needs more pox
Grief Reanimate Grief is just so much better than Dark Ritual, Hymm, Thoughtseize, especially because you can reanimate your oppos stuff, run Entomb, swap out lands for Trolls, etc.
Hard to Pox when the best discard is a creature. That being said, I think you still can if you play Bowmaster and sac the token?
A very apt description. Basically tempo pox instead of prison. That's the feel I get
This is probably the best deck for four copies of Encroach to go into. I had a play set in a pox deck once and it was incredible. They’re really only useful in your opening hand. It’s a super all-in card.
I run a very similar list to this that I affectionately call sinkhole scam and encroach is in the list over thoughtsieze. Is it worse? Yes. Is it really funny when it wins games or eats FOW? Also yes
44:00 I’m sure someone already pointed this out, but you could also swing and sac the blood token to activate fatal push (assuming they didn’t have the plow ofc)
triple sinkhole just feels SOOO good to see against Mississippi river....
22:25 was straight 🔥
Love seeing the thought process behind the deck building concept, I hope you keep doing this more in the future.
You would play 8 Cavalry, what aboue 4 Cavalry and 4 Barrowgoyf? Against anything with Darcy it could be huge by turn 2-3
Back to the roots boys! Always a threat when you play a mono black list Phil!
Love the discussion on deck focus. One of my favorite things to listen to in your videos tbh, that being your thought process on refining decks.
Is there an eternal glory podcast on deck focus and refinements? Asides from the opportunity cost one.
Im curious, did you ever consider upping the fulminator mage count, and making that part of a midgame scap type deal, where you could feasibly destroy all the lands a deck had in a game?
That's another direction to take it, but not one I considered. Sinkhole at two mana is already a bit slow. I don't know that I want to max out on Fulminators that are a full mana more expensive than that.
Thanks for this video! Very enlightening :D
Opponent had leyline of sanctity and could not be targeted by bowmaster in the doomsday match.
27:40 not me SCREAMING at my phone to reanimate their Uro
Please read Uro.
I guess this is just extra interaction, at the cost of you having to reiterate: RTFC :-)
I wonder if Nethergoyf and Winter Moon could be good here. Winter Moon could have outrageous upside with so many basics in your own deck
I think Phil was trolling, pretending he didn't see Leyline for the engagement.
And here I am
I have to admit my legacy experience, as such, is limited to observation. Tho I know the cards from kitchen table. Anyways is 13:59 goblins red good stuff now? I was interested to see the TS resolve.
I didn't see the whole deck, but if they're playing 4 ring that seems less goblin y, but IDK.
I can't deal with the MTGO. I make a lot of typos and I like to be able to backspace.
That wasn't necessarily the most stock build in the world, but many Goblins decks are experimenting in the wake of the Sticker Goblin banning to see how to exist in the post-ban world. Cards like The One Ring, for example, are popping up more.
I wonder if a Crucible of Worlds could be a consideration for the deck (Even as a 1-of). Obviously amazing when looping Wasteland, but also as a means of constantly growing Stalactite/keeping Push live (And thinning the deck).
Hey, in match 3 in the second game you didn't have bowmaster triggers, 'cause there was a leyline in play
(Just couldn't keep it to myself, sorry and have a great day:з)
Mono Black Sligh, seems hot
103:50 they revealed a new land. you didn't need to thoughtseize
My thoughts went to trying to play dark confidant over sorin.
Triple Sinkhole is indeed what I came for
I wanna like the video but it's on 420.
The dilemma.
Always love sinkhole.
I'm going to sound like a desingenuous grifter but here goes.
I had made a BG list with sinkhole + Smallpox. Adding Mox Diamond and Life from the loam was the aim, topping off with Sheoldred, Saga and Endurance.
I was thinking about sending the list but then a few stuff showed up and i really felt my lack of competitive play kicking in. Coincidentally, Phill seemed to get tired of Smallpox lists , especially since its not really a game winning card.
However, i really think LFTL + Mox can really shake up the list.
Smallpox isn't the best combo with expensive creatures like Sheoldred though.
@@ThrabenUniversity agreed. When i quit the exercise i was asking myself why wouldnt one just play lands or plain pox, whilst beseech and scam were starting to take over the black pie. Also not many legacy staples with death triggers, if memory serves me right, so smallpox would have a hard time to retain value, thats nic-unfit
I have been on the receiving end of wasteland + surgical extraction, and been severely punished by it. I can only imagine wasteland + sinkhole + grief + thoughtsieze and then some surgical extractions in the mix could be backbreaking for some decks. If you surgical away all of rescaminator's USeas, then they have what, like 2 basics and a surveil land? Also just surgical away their reanimation targets. Could this have some play in this meta?
I just noticed you have them in the sideboard, but what do you think about in the main?
I built the original list and have refined it several times since. I’ve always kept surgical in the main.
The reanimate coulda have been strong w the fulminator mage
40:55 why did the game end there when the opponent's library wasn't empty ?
Thassa’s oracle requires your devotion to blue (usually the 2 from oracle) to be greater that or equal to the amount of cards in your library.
@@carsonbos472 i guess reading the card helps, thank you!
Dear Sir, I'm more interested in the deck tech and the ideas behind the choices than the gameplay. If you have the time, maybe you can have the extended deck techs in separate videos. I know it is not for everyone
Can’t sinkhole destroy basics?
Poxless pox
I dont think it even in the top 5 of longest intro you did
the reason you dont play greif is that the spirit of the deck is that you dont have to care about the cards in hands they cannot cast it anyway
yes greif reanimated is super good but also super boring some time I feel your are playing reanimator with a side flavor it my problem but that how I feel
Lol fix my black deck (hands them general grief black deck)
This dude is one of the slowest talkers I have ever encountered. Great content tho. Trust me, put him at x2 speed and the videos are fantastic.
It's almost like it's an intentional choice for educational purposes and you've totally missed that point...
@@ThrabenUniversity I like how clear and easy it is listen your speech. And those long deck techs are best!
really wish you stop playing exsanguinator cavalry. It eats every single removal available in the format and it requires dark ritual to be playable when as a fact if you put dark ritual in any deck you're just better off doing something else with it. Just saying... t2 dark ritual sheoldred is not a particularly thrilling play but still miles better than t1 dark ritual exsanguinator cavarly. At least it taxes combo and doesn't die to bolt. In the end the horseman didn't win you a single game.
God, mtg would be soooo much better if Thassa’s Oracle never existed. That card and the degenerate garbage it enables are pure cancer.
I LOVE alternate wincons in card games and the variety of play patterns they encourage (Hedron Alignment, anyone?), but man, it's just no fun when they end up being that easy. There's no effort to Thoracle
@@sheepy403 exactly. It’s gotcha bullshit that completely ruins the play experience. I have no idea why it is allowed to exist. People say it’s a FOW check or whatever, but that is lazy equivocating to cater to entitled blue mages and combo obsessives who are nowhere near as smart as they think they are with their trashy, on-easy-mode, wombo combo decks. Some people seem to want to do whatever it takes to play as little mtg as possible or to make the play experience as miserable as possible.
Please don't refer to things as cancer in my comments.
@@ThrabenUniversity very bad choice of words on my part. I apologize.
@@ThrabenUniversity Totally fair, thank you. It's worth us acknowledging when our word choices are way too extreme for gripes that come down to "I don't think this card is very fun" and are disrespecting very real issues. @patloboyko1164 a reminder that previous comments can be edited.
You should have just named this video "scammed yet again" You would have save me the watch time of skipping the deck tech. So I guess I been scammed yet again. From now on when I see a black deck on this channel I will just assume it's scam and skip the vids.
Good. We don't need your loser mentality.
This deck was awesome and led to some sweet gameplay. ThrabenU is one of the best scam deck builders. He has a super intuitive understanding of the archtype and its always interesting the hear him think through his thought process. If you cant be bothered to read the description, then do us all a favor
Do you build your blue decks without Ponder and Brainstorm? Do you build your red decks without Lightning Bolt or your white ones without Swords to Plowshares? A fundamental part of black decks in Legacy right now is the Scam shell. It is THE most powerful thing to be doing for a fair black deck. To ignore that is to innately put yourself at a disadvantage. I can get away with playing some cute and fun things on this channel, but for those to be successful, I need to support them with format staples.