latency is like how fast someone gets off the couch frequency is how many things the person can get done while off the couch for a certain amount of time.
Thanks for putting these together, I am a long time IT professional and I try to educate my clients as to the "why" something works the way it does. I am a big fan of education and knowing how a tool works. I would like to add a tail on to this, as I think that this topic is important enough. Pro Tip: This may require a little math or at least the spreadsheet mentioned in the video. There is one more piece to the performance puzzle. That is how much data your CPU will crunch through per cycle, and how it matches up with the operations/second - Total Bandwidth. Try and avoid too much of a difference on either side. if you are starving your RAM, (RAM frequency higher than how much data the CPU sends back, in multiples that can leave a remainder product. This will cause the RAM to fall into wait states or Idle, and in the case of video games, can cause a "stutter" (another thought on this at the end). If your CPU is too fast then, obviously, the RAM gets overwhelmed. When this happens the buffer tells the CPU to go into wait state and operations are paused until the RAM can catch up. Most public sector CPU's have a small finite amount of on-board cache (L1, L2) to hold these commands/information. High end CPU's can be as high as 12MB. Not a lot relative to RAM these days. About game stutter: If you have ever installed a new graphics card and notice a game you are used to playing is now stuttering even with the HUGE COSMIC POWER of a new card. You have even lowered the graphics settings trying to even it out to no avail. What is really going on is the new card has evolved. There is probably newer logic that handles things like shader operations, or light vector/reflection calculations more efficiently. Freeing up clock cycles. So again, when you lowered the settings, you effectively are starving your data bus and GPU, and they are initializing that wait state until more data has been processed. Stutter. Try increasing the graphics/effects level in your game. In this situation, it will respond favorably. Your new card can take it. Just a 2 cents, I found relevant to this GREAT POST!!
***** riddle me this... please go to this link and sort by price high to low: www.corsair.com/en-us/memory/dominator-platinum?memorytype=DDR4|&memorysize=32GB%20Kit%20(4%20x%208GB)| Why is there such a big price difference between the top 1 and the next 2? Ok, 1.2 v is the major difference between the most expensive and the 2nd most expensive. But the difference between 1 and 3 is only the CL and Freq which isn't "huge". however for $500 bucks difference there must be something driving the price? You can select the 3 and compare to get the difference in specs.
You forgot to mention that the Mainboard has to support the frequency and latency of the memory you buy, and also you may have to manually setup the latency in bios for high performance ram, otherwise the ram will run at some defaulted "auto" latency.
This is just how to compare frequency and latency from one ram (kit) to another to determine which is actually faster. What your saying is more advanced/installing setting up and using at X speed
@@md_ez The manufacturer of the ram chip is normally insignificant, this is the reason for standardisation of the PC components. So as long as the chips comply with the standart they clame and that is also tolerated by the main board, they should work. For noname or fake chips the compliance with the claimed standard of speed is usually poor or ignored altogether, and that is usually the problem.
@@md_ezThe kingstone sounds like a counterfeit Kingston. But if it is just a spelling mistake, you can put them in. Of course they have to match the laptop slot and specs. For example some laptops may not see a configuration of 4gb and 8gb on the 2 slots as valid and only use the first 4gb in the first slot. But this should not normally damage in any way the second ram chip . After installing first check the laptop's bios to confirm that both chips are used. After that run some ram check software like Aida64. Good luck .
Good Video. Being CompTIA 801 and 802 certified, I appreciate 1.) That someone covered this aspect of RAM, as I haven't seen another video specifically on latency, and 2.) That you did a very good job explaining it.
One thing. Faster memory with higher latency will perform better than the slower memory with matching lower latency once the request is received because you don't need to send a request for every byte of data in memory. ;-)
Hey Joe thank you so much for putting the chart out I've been watching you for a long time subscribe for a long time and you got a great sense of humor you really put out some valuable information thanks man Dave
I am so glad I discovered your channel. This is mostly heavy stuff for me, I'm racking my brain trying to understand it, but it's extremely helpful. Subscribed
for sure dude, lower the cas the better ive know about this for a few months, ill report back to this video after I change my ddr3 1600 cas 11 to my new ddr3 cas 8 1600. I'm expecting a big performance improvement in my cpu clock speed and my gpu scores. :D
Seriously the best video when it comes to explain rams, you got a new subscriber ! The only thing missing I think is a possible benchmark of how it affects computer speed for various task like video editing, gaming and such.
For most normal gaming and all normal work, RAM capacity is the most important, just pick the best cost with the capacity you need. Faster RAM has almost no influence to your PC performance (some consider that an extra 1-2 fps is already a huge impact, I won't argue with that). Aiming for faster RAM will be beneficial mainly if you do content creation and on some games e.g. GTA V. Here, keeping cost in mind you would probably want to find the best RAM for you after you decided the capacity you will need. The calculation in the video will spin your head off in real life...try this instead...which is basically the same...Just remember, this will be less precise but a lot easier to remember. Just do simple math: Freq/latency is A. Look for RAM kits with the highest value A with the best cost you can find. You will then find e.g. 1600/8= 200 is as fast as 2400/12=200. In this case, no need to spend more for the 2400MHz CL12, if the 1600MHz CL8 is cheaper. (not very realistic example, this is only for example)
Thanks mate. You broke it down very clearly and have made it easy to understand. The only other thing I would have added is there are usually sets of CAS numbers quoted instead of a single CAS number. I don't understand about these sets.
Thanks for a very educational video. A difficult subject but well described & great excel sheet. I have used it to find my first computer build's memory sticks.
4:10 No, you're not going to have the *exact* same performance. The CL alone does not equal the completed task only the beginning of receiving the requested data. It really depends on exactly what you're using your computer for. In this example you used it would be fair to say that if it's mostly very small packets of data with very few large ones, then yes, it's going to be nearly the same performance. If it's mostly about large packets, such as game graphics with a lot of high resolution textures, then the 2GHz memory is going to be notably faster as the latency till the beginning of the read may be the same, but the completion of the reed will go twice as fast, so the longer a single linear read the more you'll see the performance difference. This is why most graphics cards and consoles use GDDR which has high latency with high bandwidth, while main memory RAM for a basic computer/CPU is regular DDR which has lower latency with lower bandwidth. So in the example you gave, depending on exactly how it's being utilized, in most real world scenarios for main memory you would see about a 2% with brief spikes of up to 25% performance improvement from the 2GHz RAM. If this same example was applied to a GPU or APU running a game then you're more likely going to see about a 15% with spikes up to 60% performance improvement. This is why you can't oversimplify things down to latency alone, just like you can't oversimplify things down to bandwidth alone. At least you did a good job explaining *true* latency compared to just the cycle numbers.
Wow thankyou so much. Ive always wanted to understand more about the hardware of computers but the terminology always bamboozled me. You help put it in terms i can actually wrap my brain around and absorb!!! Makes wanting to build my own gaming rig seem less intimidating!
Really nice video, you should also add the rest of the timing calculations and equations. It gets really technical, but all 4 of the timings play a factor in the overall speed. That being said CAS latency is the most common, however the RAM I bought for my computer(on sale, so it was more economical than the normally cheaper RAM I bought in the first place) is actually a little slower than the old stuff I had and according to just frequency and CAS latency it should be faster. The tRP is the latency slowing it down compared to the other.
This. I'm watching this video in 2021 where there's a massive chip shortage in the world, and manufacturers are shipping their products with slower tRP to meet the supply demands. This makes a massive difference to memory performance, and by extension CPU performance as well.
Memory data rate is expressed in MT/s (mega transfers per second) not MHz which is frequency unit. As DDR makes two operations per clock cycle, therefore during each 1 Hz clock cycle, the memory performs two transfers called 2 T/s. Hence the DDR abbreviation to describe Dual Data Rate property. Using clock units (Hz or MHz) to describe DDR memory transfer rate is incorrect and causes lots of confusion among users. Just look into your Bios, you're going to see your DDR memory parameters expressed in MT/s for actual data transfer rate, and MHz for the clock (which is half of MT/s rate).
On online stores has is pc builder programs that actually tells you if the computer can be faster with another type of ram, or faster at a lower price before ordering it. Another thing that you can do if you don´t know which is the best choice is chatting with the support from a good company and ask all the stupid questions before building your computer. I did this when building my PC for my music studio and it saved me 300euros (it is a big saving since I spend 10700 for my pc build, without windows, screen, mouse, audio interface and keyboard). Good tips on ram, just ordered some to boost my PC (to get less latency while using vst-plugins).
latency is like how fast someone gets off the couch
frequency is how many things the person can get done while off the couch for a certain amount of time.
so you're saying that we all have pretty terrible latency?
Perfect
Frequency is my job
Man helped a ton
Best analogy I have ever heard
Thanks for putting these together, I am a long time IT professional and I try to educate my clients as to the "why" something works the way it does. I am a big fan of education and knowing how a tool works. I would like to add a tail on to this, as I think that this topic is important enough. Pro Tip: This may require a little math or at least the spreadsheet mentioned in the video. There is one more piece to the performance puzzle. That is how much data your CPU will crunch through per cycle, and how it matches up with the operations/second - Total Bandwidth. Try and avoid too much of a difference on either side. if you are starving your RAM, (RAM frequency higher than how much data the CPU sends back, in multiples that can leave a remainder product. This will cause the RAM to fall into wait states or Idle, and in the case of video games, can cause a "stutter" (another thought on this at the end). If your CPU is too fast then, obviously, the RAM gets overwhelmed. When this happens the buffer tells the CPU to go into wait state and operations are paused until the RAM can catch up. Most public sector CPU's have a small finite amount of on-board cache (L1, L2) to hold these commands/information. High end CPU's can be as high as 12MB. Not a lot relative to RAM these days.
About game stutter: If you have ever installed a new graphics card and notice a game you are used to playing is now stuttering even with the HUGE COSMIC POWER of a new card. You have even lowered the graphics settings trying to even it out to no avail. What is really going on is the new card has evolved. There is probably newer logic that handles things like shader operations, or light vector/reflection calculations more efficiently. Freeing up clock cycles. So again, when you lowered the settings, you effectively are starving your data bus and GPU, and they are initializing that wait state until more data has been processed. Stutter. Try increasing the graphics/effects level in your game. In this situation, it will respond favorably. Your new card can take it. Just a 2 cents, I found relevant to this GREAT POST!!
Pretty inaccurate info here!
I'll remember this next time I download more ram!
Info Teddy are you the one that started this trend
@@natesenft5376 yes he is
Watch this video before you buy any more RAM.
ThioJoe Don't forget to download more RAM!
Very good explained 👌
you need more frequency than ram and ram also
okay, alright.
I guess Im kinda off topic but does anybody know of a good place to watch newly released series online?
Ever wonder what the heck CAS Timings were? Well they're more important than you think.
I somehow can't trust you anymore Joe, your joking channel did this to me...
NeedMoreMushrooms oh well, you shouldn't trust anyone anyway
***** Thanks for the advi... wait... 0_0
***** You want the lowest response time. Doesn't matter what the frequency or latency is alone.
***** riddle me this... please go to this link and sort by price high to low:
www.corsair.com/en-us/memory/dominator-platinum?memorytype=DDR4|&memorysize=32GB%20Kit%20(4%20x%208GB)|
Why is there such a big price difference between the top 1 and the next 2? Ok, 1.2 v is the major difference between the most expensive and the 2nd most expensive. But the difference between 1 and 3 is only the CL and Freq which isn't "huge". however for $500 bucks difference there must be something driving the price? You can select the 3 and compare to get the difference in specs.
Coming from an assistant professor of engineering, very nicely explained man. I know many professors who can't explain shit.
Thanks for doing all the hard work for me :)
+Alexander Libby noooo problem
where to find 2400mhz ram with cl 12 ....it was in the table
Corsair Vengeance CMK32GX4M4A2400C12
@rakshit nasikkar Corsair Vengeance CMK32GX4M4A2400C12 for example
@@LeoBos HyperX Fury ia sau better AND more quality
You forgot to mention that the Mainboard has to support the frequency and latency of the memory you buy, and also you may have to manually setup the latency in bios for high performance ram, otherwise the ram will run at some defaulted "auto" latency.
This is just how to compare frequency and latency from one ram (kit) to another to determine which is actually faster. What your saying is more advanced/installing setting up and using at X speed
Can I put ram from Samsung and kingstone in the same laptop?
@@md_ez The manufacturer of the ram chip is normally insignificant, this is the reason for standardisation of the PC components. So as long as the chips comply with the standart they clame and that is also tolerated by the main board, they should work. For noname or fake chips the compliance with the claimed standard of speed is usually poor or ignored altogether, and that is usually the problem.
@@florinpandele5205 the same clock speed (data transfer rate) and specifications, Samsung and kingstone..
Is it ok to add them in the same laptop??
@@md_ezThe kingstone sounds like a counterfeit Kingston. But if it is just a spelling mistake, you can put them in. Of course they have to match the laptop slot and specs. For example some laptops may not see a configuration of 4gb and 8gb on the 2 slots as valid and only use the first 4gb in the first slot. But this should not normally damage in any way the second ram chip . After installing first check the laptop's bios to confirm that both chips are used. After that run some ram check software like Aida64. Good luck .
Any one else notice the tube of vasaline?
Lmao
Next to the dual monitor setup...
Shake shake ✊💧💧
😂
Lol
This is by far the best explanation of ram latency/frequency I've ever seen. the excel spreadsheet was the cherry on top.
Awesome thank you! I didn’t know latency was in RAM. I had heard of it in graphics cards but now I know more! You are awesome.
I just love how he looks in the camera. This is just awesome :D
All your vids are great, Thio! Thanks :)
So well explained! I watched several articles about this and nobody explained this better than u. Congrats. And thanks for the tutorial.
Good Video. Being CompTIA 801 and 802 certified, I appreciate 1.) That someone covered this aspect of RAM, as I haven't seen another video specifically on latency, and 2.) That you did a very good job explaining it.
One thing. Faster memory with higher latency will perform better than the slower memory with matching lower latency once the request is received because you don't need to send a request for every byte of data in memory. ;-)
so basicly more ram less speed and less ram more speed
so basicly more ram less speed and less ram more speed
Hey Joe thank you so much for putting the chart out I've been watching you for a long time subscribe for a long time and you got a great sense of humor you really put out some valuable information thanks man Dave
i dont install more ram because i dont want to get a virus
Excellent, thanks!
I am so glad I discovered your channel. This is mostly heavy stuff for me, I'm racking my brain trying to understand it, but it's extremely helpful. Subscribed
Awesome video, of all YT I watch, videos like this are rare, you just made it perfect!
Thanks bro!
that was extremely informational! I now am questioning my RAM purchase.
for sure dude, lower the cas the better ive know about this for a few months, ill report back to this video after I change my ddr3 1600 cas 11 to my new ddr3 cas 8 1600. I'm expecting a big performance improvement in my cpu clock speed and my gpu scores. :D
Thank you ThioJoeTech. Good and fullfilling explanation, and doing the hard work on the spread sheet is appretiated!
I watched every popular video about the subject and I never understood RAM speeds/latency .. until i watched this video
Great video Thank you!
Seriously the best video when it comes to explain rams, you got a new subscriber ! The only thing missing I think is a possible benchmark of how it affects computer speed for various task like video editing, gaming and such.
Dude I hope your channel will grow fast! A lot of time it must take you to do these videos, really great work, thanks! :D
I kept expecting the wrong information as a joke per your tutorial videos but I was pleasantly surprised it's a serious video. Thanks for the info.
For most normal gaming and all normal work, RAM capacity is the most important, just pick the best cost with the capacity you need. Faster RAM has almost no influence to your PC performance (some consider that an extra 1-2 fps is already a huge impact, I won't argue with that).
Aiming for faster RAM will be beneficial mainly if you do content creation and on some games e.g. GTA V. Here, keeping cost in mind you would probably want to find the best RAM for you after you decided the capacity you will need. The calculation in the video will spin your head off in real life...try this instead...which is basically the same...Just remember, this will be less precise but a lot easier to remember.
Just do simple math: Freq/latency is A. Look for RAM kits with the highest value A with the best cost you can find. You will then find e.g. 1600/8= 200 is as fast as 2400/12=200. In this case, no need to spend more for the 2400MHz CL12, if the 1600MHz CL8 is cheaper. (not very realistic example, this is only for example)
Thanks mate. You broke it down very clearly and have made it easy to understand.
The only other thing I would have added is there are usually sets of CAS numbers quoted instead of a single CAS number. I don't understand about these sets.
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar ! Thank you
Best explanation! Thx for the timing table!
Such great information dude! thanks to this video I managed to finally decide which RAM to choose. Thank you!
Thanks. This video and the chart saved me a huge amount of toil and research.
Thank you for this clear guide, confirmed what I thought was right - as I'm preparing to build my first gaming pc this autumn.
Thanks for a very educational video. A difficult subject but well described & great excel sheet. I have used it to find my first computer build's memory sticks.
This is the best RAM video on TH-cam. Thanks :)
Glad I saw this video before going buying my RAM. Kudos to you for putting all the time in.
I wanted to know the details for the last few months. Best explained with quality video as always.
I'm looking for 28.5THz with CL 0.0000000001
+Born Boy >all those up and down and quarter clocks
Did u find it :D
When your frequencies have frequencies
My english is pretty bad ( im from germany ) but i understood everything you said.
it was very unterstandable how you explain how Latency works.
4:10 No, you're not going to have the *exact* same performance. The CL alone does not equal the completed task only the beginning of receiving the requested data. It really depends on exactly what you're using your computer for. In this example you used it would be fair to say that if it's mostly very small packets of data with very few large ones, then yes, it's going to be nearly the same performance. If it's mostly about large packets, such as game graphics with a lot of high resolution textures, then the 2GHz memory is going to be notably faster as the latency till the beginning of the read may be the same, but the completion of the reed will go twice as fast, so the longer a single linear read the more you'll see the performance difference. This is why most graphics cards and consoles use GDDR which has high latency with high bandwidth, while main memory RAM for a basic computer/CPU is regular DDR which has lower latency with lower bandwidth. So in the example you gave, depending on exactly how it's being utilized, in most real world scenarios for main memory you would see about a 2% with brief spikes of up to 25% performance improvement from the 2GHz RAM. If this same example was applied to a GPU or APU running a game then you're more likely going to see about a 15% with spikes up to 60% performance improvement. This is why you can't oversimplify things down to latency alone, just like you can't oversimplify things down to bandwidth alone. At least you did a good job explaining *true* latency compared to just the cycle numbers.
Yeh but how can i download more ram?
So basically a DDR5 ram with 6000mhz, at CL32 is better than CL40 ?
yes. i just got a ddr5 6400 cl32. cl 32 is 10 nano sec and cl40 is 12.5 nanosec
@ thanks dude I also took cl 32
Old but useful. Now I'm glad I discovered your channel.
Thank you!
Wow thankyou so much. Ive always wanted to understand more about the hardware of computers but the terminology always bamboozled me. You help put it in terms i can actually wrap my brain around and absorb!!! Makes wanting to build my own gaming rig seem less intimidating!
An example of a tech not knowing everything I didn't know this, thanks!
Exactly what I needed. Thanks!
Thank you for the explanation.
Thank you for the nice table! :)
I have been waiting on buying some RAM because I was not sure what to get! Now I am
very good
That profile pic got me :D
thank you so much! helped me to pick the right ram
Really nice video, you should also add the rest of the timing calculations and equations. It gets really technical, but all 4 of the timings play a factor in the overall speed. That being said CAS latency is the most common, however the RAM I bought for my computer(on sale, so it was more economical than the normally cheaper RAM I bought in the first place) is actually a little slower than the old stuff I had and according to just frequency and CAS latency it should be faster. The tRP is the latency slowing it down compared to the other.
This. I'm watching this video in 2021 where there's a massive chip shortage in the world, and manufacturers are shipping their products with slower tRP to meet the supply demands. This makes a massive difference to memory performance, and by extension CPU performance as well.
Thanks for the table, that's really useful ;)
THANK YOU Joe for the table. In the market for a fast computer.
Great video...Good job ThioJoeTech! this actually helped out alot
Thank you so much! I’m quite excited to power thru this channel. Finally someone who makes sense lol
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for clearing this up
Thank you so much for this video
thanks bro... nice and simple and a very handy resource
Thank you very much for this video! Your explanation was very clear and detailed. Now I can build my ultimate music production rig with confidence!
excellent video. always wanted to know the use of latency, now I know. Thanks a ton!!
Finally someone who explains it perfectly!! Thanks for the info!
Thanks Joe, that table is very helpful!
Memory data rate is expressed in MT/s (mega transfers per second) not MHz which is frequency unit. As DDR makes two operations per clock cycle, therefore during each 1 Hz clock cycle, the memory performs two transfers called 2 T/s. Hence the DDR abbreviation to describe Dual Data Rate property.
Using clock units (Hz or MHz) to describe DDR memory transfer rate is incorrect and causes lots of confusion among users. Just look into your Bios, you're going to see your DDR memory parameters expressed in MT/s for actual data transfer rate, and MHz for the clock (which is half of MT/s rate).
Thanks, ThioJoe!!
Wow this is what i needed to know, great job with the video. You're a true computer expert.
good info ThioJoe ,
thanks
Excellent explanation, thank you very much!
+ThioJoeTech, Thank you for making that spreadsheet table, it has helped me understand the Frequency/Latencies much better. You're awesome!
Well explained. Perfectly simple. Thank you. Flawless execution.
Best informed information about ram😎🍻✌🏽
Great video but do most stores have the latency described or not?
Great video. You are very good at explaining this stuff!!
Nice one thio for sharing that knowledge👍 just continue doing related videos to fully understand diff components of a pc.
Thanks for the no bs quality video.
Ummm... small question. Why do you have Vaseline underneath your monitor and preparation H ointment?
Thank-you sir!
@5:15 ha ha ha thank you. it was very helpful information
is the excel table still relevant?
Awesome video, very useful!
Thank you!!
Is the table still valid to this day. I mean are the better timings now on the market in comparison to the table?
Which is better? 1600 mhz cl 9-9-9 or 1333 mhz cl 7-7-7 ? For gaming , speed open apps?
Thanks man!
All you said i knew it but now with the sheet i will know which ram to choose.
Nice CAS Latency explanation man. Thanks!
perfect ram for dummies, you get my sub sir... and i am a dummy so keep making these.
Thank you for making this video. It was very informative.
love the videos man
best youtube video on ram
On online stores has is pc builder programs that actually tells you if the computer can be faster with another type of ram, or faster at a lower price before ordering it. Another thing that you can do if you don´t know which is the best choice is chatting with the support from a good company and ask all the stupid questions before building your computer. I did this when building my PC for my music studio and it saved me 300euros (it is a big saving since I spend 10700 for my pc build, without windows, screen, mouse, audio interface and keyboard). Good tips on ram, just ordered some to boost my PC (to get less latency while using vst-plugins).
Thank you very much, you helped me choose the suitable memory for my computer.
Hugely usefull video! Thanks Jeo! :)
Thanks!
Informative, practical and a great reference chart thanks man, sub’d
Must say this was helpful. Thanks
thank you very much !
I'm not used to ThioJoe actually giving real advice and not just trolling.
Great job.