ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- HeroQuest is back for some quick Ameritrash dungeon crawling, against the evil sorcerer Zargon! This is 2021 reprinted HeroQuest by Hasbro and Avalon Hill, which took the same exact milton bradley rules set (from 1989) and put on better miniatures with a companion app. With the app, HeroQuest goes from semi-cooperative against the dungeon master to a fully cooperative experience. We also get to review the Rise of the Dread Moon and Mage in the Mirror expansions a little bit, although we don't get very deep into any of the campaigns. Regardless of the quest, the modular board provides infinite amount of dungeon possibilities! It's no surprise that HeroQuest has captured the hearts of many 90's kids looking to play fantasy.
In the 30 years of mechanical design since Heroquest's intiial release, are the random treasures, such free-flowing rules, poor randomness management, and clunky turns enough to make HeroQuest worth playing today? Or should you play a tabletop RPG game, like Dungeons and Dragons? After all, it is kind of like Lord of the Rings with a very low barrier to entry, if you can afford it.
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Thanks to A.T. Wolfe for the intro voiceover!
Table of Contents:
Intro - (0:00)
Overview - (0:47)
How to Play - (3:19)
Pros - (4:26)
Cons - (10:50)
Recommender Score - (19:04)
Ashton's Personal Score - (25:06)
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#boardgames #tabletop #review - เกม
Wow, just … WOW!
I love HeroQuest - so clearly I’m biased.
1) The app is designed for solo play or when you have no Zargon player. Why are you using it for group play? Use the DICE for group play for the player rolls! The app isn’t perfect but it’s not as janky as you see it - your just using it wrong.
2) As zargon, why aren’t you backing up your forces when they conga line in the hallways? You know you don’t have to charge your troops headlong into the fray.
3) yes the “good” treasure items are discarded when found why the bad are put back into the deck - this is by design so the more you search for treasure - the more dangerous is potentially gets.
4) you DON’T HAVE TO SEARCH FOR TREASURE. Why have a weak player do that? (Tip: a lotta players don’t treasure search until on their return trip to the exit or after the boss fights) search for traps. Search for secret doors. Don’t always search for treasure.
5) running out of room on your character yer sheet…..the whole back of the sheet is blank. Record stuff there.
6) use something ‘any time’ means…..ANY TIME. This isn’t magic the gathering. You can use as a free action on you turn, Zargon’ s turn, a friends turn, when yer about to take a fatal blow. I’m not sure why that was difficult to understand. Meanwhile, “anytime on your turn” means exactly that.
7) found items (potions and the like) SAVE THEM UP. You can carry them over to the next quest. Not sure why your group was
8) in combat, team up on enemies, concentrate fire. This helps alleviate the misses.
9) each and every quest/mission is designed with 4 hero’s in mind. (Exception being solos quests) that’s why it’s “hard” if you don’t use 4 hero’s every time. That’s how the game is balanced.
10) stop separating from the party. After the first player searches for traps, have the next player search for secret doors in the same room. Stay together, the game moves faster.
11) the looseness of the game is an asset, not a detriment. Give one goblin a random dread spell if the hero’s are crushing you. FLEE into better positions to lure in players to attack.
12) new elf spells: yeah, some spells are scenario driven - so don’t pick them. You know (if you read the rules) you can only pick 3 from the new set for your elf (if choosing to use the elf spells). You can stick with the old spells if you like as well.
You did have some legit cons though - I agree with the expansion cards. An icon on the card would help. The movement issue was addressed on fan boards AND in the frozen horror expansion. When no enemies are present, everyone has a move of 8 to speed up play. Not your fault though, you likely aren’t deep in the fandom nor do you have the frozen horror set.
I finished all base game quests, easy. Followed by Kellers Keep expansion, and Wrath of the Witch Lord. I’d didn’t run into trouble till Frozen Horror - and a LOT of us experienced easy play with the base game - cause we read the rules and used common sense. Really basic tactics.
It’s as if you didn’t read thru the rules. This was very apparent when your group played on HeroQuest day.
I give it 10/10 - but I’m clearly biased. A fair score is 6/10.
The best thing about HeroQuest is putting a best thing about HeroQuest reference in the vid!
Hahaha, the bard makes me crack up every time -Ashton
I got the Haslab crowdfund game back in October 2021 and introduced the game to a group (ages 28-42) of friends, all non-gamers - not into board games or TTRPGs of any sort. There was no nostalgia for the game except mine. The group loved it. Now almost two years later, we are almost 50 quests in, the size of the group has doubled… and I’ve had to split it into two groups. Each of the two groups plays once a month, each in a different questpack. It’s turned the whole group into new gamers. I would rate HeroQuest much higher than a 4 or 5. So many people say it’s dated or has obsolete rules. I don’t understand that at all. I think it’s still a great introduction to tabletop miniature gaming
Awesome! Do you guys house-rule or have Zargon have some flexibility with the rules? Curious how you guys work with balance/pacing as the campaigns progress -Ashton
@@Shelfside Hi! I do house-rule & home-brew a bit... but I try to keep it relatively minimal. I avoid changing core game mechanics themselves. I want my home-brew to by "additive" not "altering". So the play of the quests themselves are relatively unchanged with the exception being that I occasionally add unique, different monsters pulled from a Bestiary of Warhammer Fantasy Battle Monsters converted to Heroquest stats. Our last game, my heroes encountered a Minotaur. I usually throw in a unique, stronger boss character every 3 or 4 quests. In addition, I'll "beef up" some "boss level" monsters that appear in the quest book. Besides that, I use the fan-made Phoenix's "Imperial Academy" expansion for hero advancement. It offers a bunch of purchasable skills & new spells based on the number of quests heroes have completed. I basically will play a group with rules as written, no additions through the entire base game (14 quests) and as they move into the expansions I start introducing more new elements. I highly recommend Phoenix's Imperial Academy. It changes basically nothing about the core gameplay, just adds a bit more variety to advancement. I think Zargon's having flexibility with the rules is really baked into the game. It's why there's a blank quest map, and why the expansions emphasize Zargon as the "ultimate authority" as you pointed out. The game is made to home-brew, but the core mechanics still stand on their own. There are some who want to change everything about how the game works. I prefer to stay as true to the rules as possible, while still adding elements to increase the fun.
The nostalgia is strong with this one.
It always frustrates me when people assume that just because something is "accessible," it MUST be a "kids game" like that article you referenced. PLENTY of adults ALSO enjoy a quick "fast food" rpg to fill up our already more limited time we have to work with, (as it is often so taken up with responsibilities.) Heroquest gives us that. Sometimes we just want to have FUN too without getting bogged down with rules and just get immersed in some fantasy. 😎
Comming from an original game player, that moved to the new version, this was an extremely well-done review.
What I did to make a rated 4 game a 9 was to mod it.
We no longer need a GM to be Zargon. I made cards for random encounters and new treasure decks for beginning , mid, and high-level play.
I also made new monter and got figures for them.
The players level and get more points and most dangerous monsters.
So yes, after all these years with a little work is an even better game
I got this back in the early 90’s but had no one to play with and absolutely no understanding of tabletop games. I’m looking forward to using this as an entry level experience. This review was rad and answered all the questions I had. Thanks!
Playing this game with kids is the best way to go. It's a perfect gateway game into D and D and other RPG style games.
I remember this game being incredibly easy for the heroes. As Zargon, I had to add more enemies randomly or make traps undetectable.
Game ended up being heroes move as a group, open a room, clear room while moving as little as possible. Then search for traps, treasure, and secret doors.
Had I known that there was a more advanced version of this, I would have asked for it on my birthday.
By the time we got to each expansion, the heroes are so powerful, I added custom treasures and equipment for both sides.
Still, was an excellent core experience of my childhood. Storytelling is an underrated skill set.
>Game ended up being heroes move as a group, open a room, clear room while moving as little as possible. Then search for traps, treasure, and secret doors.
This really is the problem with the game.
Same problem with me. Playing bunch of 30+ year old advanced guys who did this. I almost sold the game but then I made it so fucking hard for them, so they were annoyed. I generated a new skill for enemies which make them deadly. I also added a small amount of rounds for them to pass it. But it kills the loot system. The enemy skills helped a lot. Although the players didn't like because it was harder, but I didn't give a shit :D. I said that it is this or I sell the game.
Was disappointed they didn't do a refresh of the rules. It's like they slapped some new paint on a old house. It's still a old house.
I think you’re totally right that this game is about Vibes and making your own fun. That’s we did with it in the 90s given that the components are such a great template for creativity. I even used the board and screen for my first D&D campaign in high school.
Haha, we used the screen for so many other TTRPGs, we got so much mileage out of it! -Ashton
You should delve into Rise of the Dread Moon, it has some of the things you're asking for/fixes for things you see as cons.
- There are disguises that add a bit of a roleplay and stealth element.
- There is an alchemy deck in which you craft your own potions using items and ingredients you find in the quests (more loot).
- There is a sense of time and urgency by not being able to shop between all of the quests and not regaining all body/mind points between quests before being thrown into the next one.
-There are new types of monsters that can pass through walls, monsters, heroes and cannot be damaged easily by conventional weapons and tactics eliminating "conga line" type skirmishes.
- There are enemy spells that are stronger when multiples of that same monster are on the board that certainly make Zargon's options greater and more interesting.
- There is an xp/renown system that rewards the heroes with points they can spend to hire help or during quests for an unknown benefit (or detriment).
It's definitely an attempt by Avalon Hill to change up the status quo and see how things can go in future releases. Not quite a "second edition," but not a bad stab at it. Play it, see what you think.
"Somehow Zargon returned"
Thanks so much for this! I loved the game as a kid because it was the only thing like it. I saved it to play with my kids but realized recently they would find it boring compared to everything else out there, and I really don’t want to play this any more either. You helped me to find peace about it and let it go. I’m thankful for what it did for me in my childhood, and I will always remember it fondly, but I think it’s best to let it remain in my heart as nostalgia, rather than clutter up my closet. Sometimes you just can’t recapture that feeling, and that’s ok.
I play Heroquest with my two nieces regularly and it’s their favourite thing about visiting their uncles house. They have built little stories for their characters and love the mix of exploration, combat, loot and dungeon tropes. Adding the app with the narration from Zargon and Mentor adds to the experience for the younger generation (and the monster AI has improved too so the monsters get more out of their action economy and counter common player strategies).
The treasure deck is still awesome games design in that makes searching for treasure risky but exciting and the board design is perfection.
They did make a second edition of HeroQuest, they just ended up calling it Descent, unironically.
HeroQuest brings me back to my 10 year old me. Loved it so much.
Brought me into the wold of minature painting.
This really needs a variety of game boards, even a modular system.
Back in the day I used to integrate the board tiles from Warhammer Quest for that purpose, though it did have a tendency to make setup/teardown a bit tedious, and transformed the game from one that could fit on a modest table, to one you need to set down on the floor.
They made Advanced Heroquest which was modular.
Included pretty much the whole Warhammer fantasy world in that, a lot more complex though.
Thanks for an excellent review. I think you really nailed the pros and cons with the game system. I think thte simplicity and loose loreism is exactlly why it has such a great appeal to homebrew scene. I've often heard that argument too about "why don't you play dnd instead", but it misses the point of how satisfying it can be to homebrew a tweak a game where your hero group already know all the base rules etc. I used to play the game as a kid, but when I bought the new 2021 edition I decided early on to build my own homebrew around it so I could play with more hero variants, monsters etc. I knew that this was the way I wanted to play the game after a first round with some veteran boardgame players. Even with lot of sugarcoating on the story, the dicerolling and simplified quests needed a bit more to keep up the intrest.
What is often mentioned is that HQ is a gateway to other games, but I think it is as much a gateway to becoming a great DM and storyteller. For anyone who played the Zargon role a lot, but didn't find it satisfying I would recommend to try to play Zargon with a hero group with only kids once. Playing HQ with kids will demand of you to make things more like story time. I wouls also recommend to try out the EU-version of the game, since it as a more kid friendly approach with easier monsters and somewhat quicker gameplay (almost all monsters have 1 body point).
Hey thanks for sharing! There's something beautiful about the sheer ease of entry into this game, whereas something like DnD or a bigger dungeon crawler is too intimidating (although those have much better legs!). HQ Definitely made me a better DM/storyteller before I touched dnd. -Ashton
As the Zargon of my group, I've houseruled that every monster killed drops 10gp, it sounds wild but when you look at the prices of items I don't think it's so bad. We don't get to play often enough that this is a game breaking house rule and I even with all these gold drops, I still find my group "saving up" for bigger shopping trips anyway.
That's a good one- back when we played with our old version, I would just houserule constant GP drops for monsters, since they found the act of buying stuff so fun -Ashton
I’m just happy it’s back
this is the correct answer -Ashton
@@Shelfsidehave you bought every expansion like I have?
The traps+wandering monsters are returned to the treasure deck as this was an important aspect in early d&d. In d&d wandering monsters were tied to time elapsed (1in6 every ~20 minutes of dungeon exploration) and I think the treasure deck in heroquest is one of the better aspects of the game. There is risk to spending time searching for treasure. It is also one of the few ways the DM can get some free attacks on the players as once players work out "how to play" everything becomes a little boring. Back in the 90s I was not a huge fan but after playing OSR d&d I appreciate it a lot more.
There is an undo button, I'm playing on an app version released March 24. I'm playing solo and have completed 11 of 14 quests in the base game. My experience is it's hard at the start, gets easier mid way through once heroes have acquired better gear. After quest 10 the heroes feel a bit OP for most of the enemies.
Broad Sword!
Thanks you talked me out of getting it as introduction into D&D for my kid. Any suggestions for alternative titles?
you could look into descent! Or the D&D games could be a great place to start if you like that art/theme -Ashton
@@Shelfside thanks for the suggestion! My kid is 6 and enjoyed playing coop Baldur's Gate 3 on PC with me, and she got Labyrinth 3D for Christmas which she loved too, so now I want to give her a tabletop D&D experience, but perhaps more simplified and tangible. Descent looks interesting! What are your thoughts on D&D Adventure Begins?
A little late but I think this game is the perfect D&D introduction for a 6 year old. I think Descent would be too complicated. Heroquest is super simple to pick up, play, and understand. And as he grows older maybe you can add more complexity to the game if you want to. There is so much homebrew content out there, and even systems that expand the complexity of the game (Like Axianquest Heroic Skills, Furniture, and Dungeon Event cards). If you play as Zargon and get him and 1 or two of his friends to play you will all have a great time!
Try Smackwell’s Dungeon Crawl rules (you can look it up on board game geek) - compatible with this game’s components, similar rules, but offers more of the depth that HeroQuest is missing, including more for the GM player to do and player progression - and it’s cheap!
I see the tried-and-true Wizard tactic of phasing back and forth through walls to sneak a peak at what lies in wait has remained.
I feel like Hasbro painted themselves into a corner with this one.
Hero Quest is such an iconic classic that the majority of people who even have this on their radar are people who played it as kids, so Hasbro would've been hesitant to change it much - if at all, for fear of it being rejected.
I think it would've helped if they included a set of 'Advanced Rules' for that established audience, so they could experience the game they remember from a newer, modern perspective.
What I always used to do with Hero Quest when it comes to monster conga lines and fatal funnels is let monsters pass through other monsters so long as they have the movement spaces necessary to bypass the line, plus one additional space.
It didn't always negate bottlenecking, but it helped mitigate that sort of clunkiness.
All of that said, I have no idea why an app would ever be necessary for Hero Quest.
It's such an easy, approachable game that fiddling with an app between turns would only serve to complicate things to a tedious degree.
Now all we need is a new version of Battle Masters...
Agree on the advanced rules! Or as I was saying, a whole chapter dedicated to how you can put your own spin on houserules and stuff.
I like the idea of letting monsters move through! Growing up, I used just spawn so many monsters out of nowhere and warn the adventureres that they were on a time crunch. -Ashton
Monsters can move through other Monsters. This is not home-brew, this is in the official rules.
actually my kid loves playing Zargon, go figure.
You know what would be great. If you reviewed Altar Quest and Dungeon Crusade. These two games are directly influenced by this game. I mean even the board is similar. I'd love to see that and see what you think.
Hmm, noted! Dungeon crawlers take a while to review, but I'll remember those 2 names -Ashton
Thinking of this game as a 1v4 is kinda missing the point. It's really a co-op game where one person acts as a gamemaster
I always saw Hero Quest as a similar experience to a videogame like Golden Axe. Played a lot in the 90's but lost it.
HeroQuest is great.
Rise of the Dread Moon? So there's a non-backer exclusive expansion I don't have yet? Have to remember that the next time I shop around online.
Rise of the Dread Moon is the first fully NEW expansion in over 30 years.
Its not Zorgon on the screen it's Mentor..
Oh man, I read a little bit about this on reddit, but wasn't sure. Seems like a very intimidating mentor, I like to keep thinking of him as Zargon
As a dungeon crawler, what would be Daniel's Score?
likely extremely low rules as written. Can't be higher than a 3
@@ashtonwu7760 probably, but still curious :)
being a player is probably like 3, gm is 5 it's more things to do
-Daniel
@@Shelfside thanks for the response. cool to see i guessed right.
they really should make a sequel to remove all the weaknesses at least.
17:37 RAUL!
Do you play the guitar?
haha, yep. It's so fun! -Ashton
I only play 89' version lol
"Nerd alert!" The Zargon screen has Mentors face on it, not Zargon. Also you can get minis of Zargon and Mentor. "Nerd Alert!" done haha
I loved HeroQuest as a kid back in the 90s. I skipped the new iteration mainly because of the simple and imbalanced game mechanics. There are much better dungeon crawlers out there (Chronicles of Drunagor, Descent 3, Arena/Tanares, etc...).
So why were people so hyped for this. Nostalgia?
Yes. You have Dizzy avatar so you must like nostalgia.
Clash of Cultures: Monemental Edition
Space Empires 4X
Eclipse: 2nd Dawn of Galaxy
Colt Express
Could you guys do a boardgame review of them^
eclipse is possible! CoC have no idea. Other ones have been added! -Ashton
Pathfinder, rules online, dice, minis, roll up map, plenty of free adventures or make your own. WAY better. They put no effort in this reprint
11:38 wtf this handwriting bruh reeeeeeeeeeee ( oДo)
;)
Eighth
Ok, so you do not like RPG which involves creating a story, which requires characters and a scenario.
An RPG is story + combat. And you say the game has too much combat.
So you are playing an RPG without story. No wonder why you do not like it.
I may presume that the mission or story briefing does not provide enough story.
I have found that the core emotional factor of an RPG is beloved characters and high stakes.
So I presume that the missions in Heroquest have miniatures but these are not really characters. And the story briefing has no high stakes.
And considering lack of interaction with props, it seems like merely decoration.
It depends on the DM whether or not the session is combat heavy, but I tend to like story driven RPGs the most, like Dread :)
Agree that the stakes in Heroquest aren't very well setup, and the furniture interaction is very minimal -Ashton
@@ShelfsideThis is why I prefer to play an RPG Mechwarrior Destiny which uses minimum RPG mechanics and is compatible with the Battletech tabletop game. Battletech is a mecha tactical game which micromanages internal damage.
Those who want more than combat, can add stakes and beloved characters easily, and the galaxy is wide, so there is no need of a dungeon. Have you ever been in a dungeon and suddenly your character develops the need to go shopping? Well, with a big galaxy you can do so. There is more narrative freedom, and more interesting stories, with non dungeon adventures, in my opinion.
There is also a cool solo RPG called "Space Aces TNG The New Guidebook" which uses 1D6, and it is very simple but very cleverly designed, so you have light hearted classic retro scifi adventures. I find it quite good as it allows a wide variety of adventures for solo playing.
I do not like to be confined to a room in an RPG.
@@ShelfsideI find fantasy RPGs limited due to map restrictions. Combat may take place in an area, but non combat could take place anywhere. But fantasy RPG games do not allow that.
Imagine Star Wars confined to an undergound cave... This is how I feel fantasy RPGs.
Take this as example...
In my current scifi RPG adventure in the Battletech universe, characters arrived to a dusk planet with lots of lightnings, where rods captured the energy to power the colony. There were some missing investigators and characters had to find a whistleblower that was schedulesd to meet with the investigators, but it never happened.
They manage to find and meet the whistleblower and her sister who later became part of the team. And there was a big mecha combat. A big mecha assigned to get rid of one person. Too much money invested for a small operation, it suggested things were bigger.
After capturing the defeated pilot, after some combat, they found a slave operation, which led to a bigger mecha fight..They found the investigators enslaved!!! And rescued them and took slavers prisoners.
Interrogation suggested that the operation was funding a huge conspiracy of a secret subversive organization of nobles that wanted to depose the royal families in all the Inner Sphere and create a dommsday galactic tyranny. These characters with the help of the minor power they belong to, had a huge task.
They travelled to the border to attack a pirate operation to get evidence, met some known characters from the novels, and both were forced to collaborate to survive, and then they ended up in the capital of one of the royal houses. Those famous characters were an expeditionary force of enemies, and in the capital there was a Romeo and Juliet story of characters who finally could marry, but needed to fight for their lives to face an invasion force that already landed on the polanet.
Now characters went from rescuing investigators to save the galaxy and a Romeo and Juliet story.
High stakes, beloved charactes, lots of travelling, no dungeon.
In scifi there is a lot of travelling, walking the planet, departing, going elsewhere. Having combat, going elsewhere, find out, explore...Now compare this to Heroquest. Hacking ans slashing here and there.
Thanks for sharing! @@josepablolunasanchez1283
first :)
Second!
Yeah, it's too bad they didn't update the mechanics. And in my opinion, the style of the art and minis is a downgrade. It's skillfully done, but why make it so childish? So "Warcrafty"? Ugh.