Why Don't We Do Prostrations On Sundays?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- Excerpt from "The Mystery of Christ: An Athonite Catechism (Lesson 27) - The Lord's Birth, Circumcision, and Meeting in the Temple" by Fr. Peter Heers
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To my recollection, we never had a Saturday memorial service for the giving of Kolyva. The plate was blessed at the Altar during Sunday service and handed out at the end. Thank you for this explanation.
I read this in Tertullian.
I don't exactly remember what I read but what I took out of it was that Sunday is not a say of fasting or repentance but of celebration.
Bowing down is a sign of humility.
And even though we are to be humble before God at all times, on Sunday we ought to have already repented and clothed in glory. As he was made glorious on Sunday.
Appreciate the golden nuggets in the comments
Another A+ talk. Absolutely love the backstories and tidbits here and there from the holy mountain. Thank you.
i had no idea. So much to learn...
PLz god, bless me with a church to go to..
There is probably an Orthodox church closer to where you live than you may think.
There is a lot to learn. But your learning begins when you get saved by believing on Christ, instead of trusting in your works as Orthodoxy falsely teaches.
@@goblinoide thanks for komment.
Yes, eastern Orthodoxy is THE church. No doubt about that atall.
@ No, Eastern Orthodoxy is false. It teaches a works-based false gospel. Watch "The Bible Way To Heaven" by Verity Baptist Church.
@ Eastern Orthodoxy teaches a works-based salvation. The Bible teaches salvation is by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
There's a time for everything..a time to rejoice..a time to mourn...
Ecclesiastes 3
Great video as always!
I'd say lack of space would be an issue, too. Loooots of people are showing up at my parish now, me being one of them.
Remove pews and you will have more space for additional people.
@@johnnyd2383 perfect answer😂
So happy my church doesn't or won't ever do pews
Yes, on many Sundays there is very little room left in our temple; we have no pews either.
@johnnyd2383, good point! There weren't chairs or pews back in the day. You can always find a small square of floor to do prostrations or when venerating icons during the week. ❤
We have other jurisdictions come to our ROCOR mission. The Antiochians prostrate. We were all like, what is going on? until we figured out they were doing that at their former parish. They don’t anymore after watching the majority.
Should be on the Old Calendar too!
Orthodox Teaching of the Elders - The Hidden Power of Prayer on Your Body and Mind | Elder Cleopa (✝ December 2nd)
0:22 Father please pray for me, that is his would be enough of a reason.
The only Sunday we kneel that can think of is Palm Sunday. It's a Serbian tradition that I don't fully understand as an American but I don't question it. ☦️
Pentecost kneeling Vespers. We all do it.
@LadyMaria that was the other one! Yes, thank you. ☦️
Pentecost vespers is when we start kneeling again. Many churches do the service right after liturgy.
@@joshevans4322 And thank you. I was trying to remember the other day!
Well considering in different cultures standing and kneeling have different interpretations of reverence I see no problem in the priests under bishops allowing it if it seems good to them we do prostrations in my church during the Eucharistic prayers
🙏✝️🕊️❤️
I'm an inquirer attending a church where people will bow their heads down at times during liturgy, I have been doing it myself whenever I do the sign of the cross, is this the same thing as bending your knee or prostrating?
@@sincerehypocrite1402 no it is not
We cross ourselves and then bow the head or at the waist at certain times during the Divine Liturgy. These are outlined in the Jordanville Prayer Book. It's a really good prayer book, by the way! (As an aside, the Orthodox Christian Prayer Book by Newrome Press (light blue) is really good too! These are my two go to prayerbooks!)
This is not the same as a prostration which is on one's knees, forehead to the floor, rear in the air.
You might also see people crossing themselves, then with the right hand reaching to the floor, bowing at the waist. This is a deep bow called a Metania. Many do this while venerating icons, and in the Divine Services. This can be done on Sundays.
Hope this helps! 🤗
Was also taught that no prayer ropes at Sunday liturgy. But many converts still use them.
We follow the monastery and the monks do it, including bishops. We can and should also do it if able to focus on both...always ask your priest but it's blessed to keep the gospel on your mind.
@RiseUpRenovation
Church is the time for community prayer and worship. Most of us ain't monks nor do we want to be😁
There are no canons against using prayer ropes in the liturgy and many saints used prayer ropes in the liturgy and instructed others to do the same.
@@XPI-s1k we are called to be saints, why not follow the leaders if they all lead to christ.
It helps many, even cradle Orthodox to pray during Liturgy like this. It isn't just converts. It helps to focus the mind on prayer and the service.
Evlogeite Patera ☦️
Do you guys(Eastern Orthodox☦️) brothers and sisters do daily worship prostrations?
How many do you do daily?
What do you say when you prostate(is it the Jesus prayer)?
(From Ethiopian Orthodox brother 🙏)
በስመ አብ ወወልድ ወመንፈስ ቅዱስ አሐዱ አምላክ አሜን ✝️🙏❤️🛐
I'm just a catechumen (Antiochian), but I do 40 prostrations a day, except Sundays. I read a saint's advice to do that. Can't remember who
@SalGargini that's good to know beloved brother by His holy grace may God bless you for answering 🙏
Are you going to continue your prostrations after the catechumen is over too?
What do you say when you prostrate?(I mean if you do a prayer or something?)
Do you make your hands into a fist when you prostrate?
Do you live around mount Athos(what must you do to join the monks there?
Forgive me for my many questions 🙏
Yes, we do them. There can be daily one prostration, a couple, a few, several, to many more. It depends on the prayer rule given by one's spiritual father. In the 50 days of the Paschal season there are none, and on Sundays, none.
One might pray the Jesus Prayer during. Others might be praying the 7 Bow Beginning to prayers (which is repeated after prayers), or other things. In Great Lent, the Prayer of St. Ephraim the Syrian is four prostrations.
I do 100 a day except the non canonicall days which metanias are forbbideen to do: Saturday and Sunday: edit i am Not a monk i am a teen And i do them all during The evening prayers
@@vasilebalu3633 that seems a lot, do you do it all at once or divide it morning and night?
I have a question. What about metanias? We were told to do them at every trisagion but another priest said it is not necessary and made it seem like it was too "showy" for context i am in an Antiochian churchand none of the churches in my country prostrate.
my priest told us we don't do prostrations because it's resurrection day, but we will prostrate when the Holy Spirit is called down into the gifts, and since it's not about Christs death, rather honoring the Holy Spirit. Is that bad?
No. It's your priest doing it. Just ask him about it and then go along with it. If it's a mistake it's not on you. Conditions are different in each parish.
It is correct. This is the meaning of putting us on our knees when the Holy Spirit descends and this is our tradition that I grew up in Greece for decades. It is a gesture in the context of respect and honour the mystery . I feel it also this way since I was kid . It is not kneeling by regret for our sins that diminishes in any manner the joy of resurrection ..
Just don't do it on Sunday. People do it out of some tradition that they don't know what it was rooted in. Fr. Peter explained it well.
Same
@everev851 thank you
Are we talking about kneeling or prostrating? Because I’ve heard many times that we don’t kneel on Sunday, but are we not supposed to prostrate either? Some parishes (including mine) do a full prostration during the Anaphora when the gifts are consecrated. I feel like it’s entirely appropriate to prostrate during that moment in the liturgy.
Even during Lent? The prayer of Saint Isaac the Syrian includes prostrations (several, indeed)
This is as far as I know always during the Lithurgy of Pre-Sanctified Gifts, i.e. mid-week
St. Ephraim the Syrian.
See now im confused cause my church prostrates when they pray over the Eucharist every Sunday
Wrong. Stop doing that. Ask your priests to comply with the Church canons.
Ours did too, but some of us stopped.
This can be seen in some parishes, unfortunately, but kneeling on Sundays is forbidden by the canons in honor of the Resurrection.
Why do we kneel on Pentecost during the reading of the prayers, which follows the Sunday liturgy?
It is technically Monday then as the day starts at Vespers Service in the evening.
My priest has everyone kneel on Sundays. And we do memorial services. Do I just sit in my pew during epiclesis? And not sing during memorial service?
I just bow down deep in that situation, but it always feels weird to be one of the few who does not kneel. Nevertheless that cannot hold us back from following the teachings.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us! ☦
Stand on the knees when the bread is transformed in Christ is a gesture of honouring our king of the kings. If we believe that god is in front of us at this moment it is normal to kneel . I find it is not natural to stand stil without respect . I grew up with this habit in Greece and I know many spiritual fathers who said it is good in this context , by respect . We kneel even before a normal queen by respect..
Pews in Orthodox Church?
Well, it depends. Is the priest telling you specifically to kneel? If yes that’s a different story. Most priests understand that not everybody is capable of kneeling and so they aren’t going to demand that you specifically kneel. If that’s the case I don’t see a problem with just bowing. My priest says that we shouldn’t kneel but some people still do. Nobody calls them out in it. We occasionally have special supplicatory prayers after liturgy on Sunday that we kneel for. For example we did one during the recent fires here in California that caused some of our parishioners to have to evacuate their homes. And another time was for a cessation of the war in Gaza that resulted in some of our parishioners’ family members to perish. I think such exceptional times of desperation occasionally warrant kneeling to show our sorrow and need before God.
Orthodox stand during Divine Liturgy. No sitting unless you are crippled or too old and thus unable to stand.
Father @The Orthodox Ethos bless☦️
So it's only the priest can kneel before the Holy Gifts after the anaphora/Asking blessing from the Holy Spirit?
I am Orthodox and I’m really tired of all these mini rules… I prostrate because I love God so much and to humble myself… is this really a problem?
Kind of an offtopic comment, but I really like that chant at the end of the video. Does anyone know how it's called?
Άξιον εστί
Do we do prostrations on great holidays?
In my parish there is kneeling and memorial services on Sundays, and the priest wears the white collar. Should I be concerned?
I would have. Kneeling on Sundays is against canons of the Orthodox Church.
The kneeling and memorial services are minor and I wouldn't worry about it as a convert if the church is overall bringing you closer to God, and it's the only church available to you. Just do the right thing yourself and don't kneel and don't request a memorial service to be done on a Sunday.
I have a question... I'm Brazilian and here where I live there are no Orthodox Churches, only one that claim to be Orthodox, which is an Orthodox community from Wales... but doing a research it's a groupo founded in 19's.
I'm was grown in Protestantism, but I'm not baptized yet... since there are no Orthodox Churches in my city, I will go to another city... but the Orthodox Church there is the Sirian Orthodox Church... they only accept three of the Holy Ecumenic Councils... but I think it's time to get baptized... what do you guys think about this Church?... I'm more identified with the Greek Church...
Go and get baptized beloved brother 🙏
We Ethiopians also accept the three ecumenical councils and our Christology is Miaphisite Christology (not Monophysite, that's heretical) like our Syrian brothers, other than that we don't have much difference with the eastern Orthodox churches.
Do not get baptized in a church that only accepts the first three councils. They are not Orthodox. They are non-Chalcedonians. Fr. Peter has spoken about them in other videos.
Could you contact an Orthodox Priest?
We are not in communion with the Oriental Communion of which the Syrian church you mention is apart.
Please email Fr. Peter Heers of this channel. I think contact info. is in the channel About section. There is always a way! May you be blessed. 🙏 ☦
Do we still do them before church during morning prayers?
Your pnevmatiko will guide on this. He should direct you not to prostate on Sundays before the service.
If you have daily prostrations..... They can be done after Sunday vespers
So when do you do them? At vespers??? Or do you make a special service with the Priest?
If you are referring to Memorial services, these should be done on Saturdays.
@@OrthodoxEthos Yes, you said, on Saturday in your video, but WHEN on Saturday - during Great Vespers, or do you make a special service earlier in the day specifically for the Memorial????
According to the cannons of the church.... Kneeling is prohibited on the Lord's day(Sunday)...... APART FROM certain points in the divine liturgy.........
It seems that, when the Rudder was translated to English the translator must have missed the section referring to the exceptions, at which point kneeling is allowed on Sundays.
This has more than likely created this confusion.
It's canon 20 of the first council
It's page 151(Πηδαλιον ) in the explanation of the cannon a 3rd of the way down, mentions at which stages kneeling is permitted on Sundays and Sunday of Pentecost.
It's been omitted in the English translation
This is why I read comments on these videos
Does "kneeling" also refer to full prostrations?
@@kinoian yes it applies to kneeling and full prostrations ...
Daily prostrations can be done after Sunday vespers
Lord have mercy. ☦️
The Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost are technically Monday as the liturgical day begins with Vespers.
We do not kneel at all on Sunday, not that we have anywhere to kneel anyway, not having pews.
Anyone know the name of the outro chant?
I remember in greece we were encouraged to stand on our knees only when " τα σα εκ των σων" was said because this is the moment that the bread and wine is "tranformed " and christ is in front of us! . We knew this kneeling ( not head on the floor) is a gesture of salute by respect in front of the king of kings like people did in front of the queen elisabeth for example. It is NOT about regretting neither to dinminish our joy of resurrection (!). On the other hand those who never kneel on sundays they often never kneel even weekdays so I think there is another context behind why this canon is writen : in the ancient church that people were more respectful and were kneeling a lot , this was established for the good order in the church that were crowded on sudays and most importantly to give a ' rest ' to people since they used to go to the church very often compared to nowdays and during weekdays and used to kneel a lot .. If we had to reinvent a good habit nowadays I think it should be this one . I like kneeling , by sincere respect .Since Christ is standing in front of us at this moment , we feel the need to kneel to honor him .
We feel a lot of things but as Fr. P said, we go by what the Holy Fathers taught.
A metania is a prostration
Minor things …. Like ecumenism my friend…?!
prostration and kneeling are two different things
Either way, it's bending the knee.
You shouldn't be doing prostrations at all. You want people to see how holy you are. You make a show of something that should be between you and God. You are just like the Pharisees.
If we go down this path it leads to legalism. That's Pharisees, always worried about what people think of them, thinking poorly of their peers in their worship whilst not worshiping. There comes a time when this "I would NEVER do that in communal worship" thing becomes a source of pride much like the one who actually does prostrate just for faux piety. But not all who do have faux piety and that's not up to you to decide.
Of course we should do protestations. We do them at home and we can do them in our services (minus Sundays and Paschal season) for worship of God. It's humility to fall on their face at God's feet which is what a prostration is. That was done by many in Holy Scripture to worship God, in public.
What matters is what is in the heart. If one is doing so in Divine Services with only the thought of worshiping God and humbling him or herself before Him then it's not an issue of showing "how holy" one is. It's all about God. The mind isn't even thinking what you are thinking of them. If others think poorly about that person then the one judging is the one at fault, and he is not worshiping God but busy judging others. You become the Pharisee and s/he the Publican.
@@LadyMaria Where in the Bible does it say these things? Where in the New Testament does Jesus or the apostles tell us to make a show of our prayers? Don't you see it was the Pharisee that were doing the big public prayers and showing off how holy they were. They wore the fancy outfits and hats and long beard and made everyone watch they as they fell on their faces and prayed loudly. Just like people today. You are trying to insinuate that I am being prideful? Really? You don't even know me. I said these bishops are acting like the Pharisee because they are. They are doing the exact same thing. It is painfully obvious. So, making an observation is prideful? What is wrong with you? Why are you so rude?
@@derekdavis3004If you think what I said was about you, then perhaps you need to look more into your actions. I have not been rude at all but instead defending those who you wrongfully accuse of wrongdoing, those who are merely worshiping God in the place for worship.
Before becoming hostile at others in the future when you are offended, look to yourself and see if perhaps the words you are offended by fit you; if they do then you should correct it. This is my last reply and venture to this thread. May God soften your heart.
$50 says that every orthodox parish does things differently and only about 2 in 10 priests bothered to learn any theology
* Roman Catholic
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