The use of character death to motivate also applied to Namor, his mother's death, led him to seek to bury her in her birthplace, only to find hostile Colonial Spaniards treating Mayans poorly, and they attacked him and he killed them.
Not sure if they've started it in the movies, but in the comics, Ramonda is T'Challas step mother, she is only mother to Shuri if I remember correctly. T'Challas real mother died during child birth. I wonder if they were playing off this in the movie without ever stating it in the movie.
Movie ruined by way too many masculine butch looking female characters and by now what must be clearly recognized as the standard barrage of needless hysterical screaming and crying scenes of black women (outdated gimmick). There's only around 10-20 mins of total screen time with any dialogue or action featuring a prominent black male character and 2 out of the 3 are/were deceased (RIP CB). No doubt black women are incredibly strong but they're just as incredibly beautiful (all skin tones) too as any other group of women. Yet the majority of black female roles are always cast as either obese or masculine looking characters especially when darker complexion. However it's the opposite for the majority of female roles for white and other race of actresses. The non-black actresses in Wonder Women and other Marvel films (or really almost every film) are always cast for their feminine beauty especially their stars. Why is it so different for our black female characters?
Chadwick's T'Challa was at his best in Civil War.He felt neutered or like a sideline character in the first Black Panther film.Wish we could've got a full movie of Civil War T'Challa.
I didn’t like that movie but he was one of the best parts of it. The conflict of this movie felt like civil war where there’s no villain and it’s just heroes or in this case heroes and an anti hero fighting which is just as uninteresting and not well done. The ending was just as lame as the one in that film. It’s just like what was this all for really?
Because Ryan coogler cant write, his best film is based on real life. And the best work of the other guy he writes with is a TV show, it's average and again based on real life .... give them space to just be creative and they make shit, just like those game of thrones guys (when they went away from the source material)....theres too many conmen in Hollywood getting their hands on good properties, rings of power is another example too
Okoye’s character stood out to me especially during her scene with Queen Mother after the Chicago incident. Honestly this scene was the most emotionally moving scene in the entire film for me.
The mission to get Riri should have involved Okoye, Shuri, Michaela Coles's character and the other woman whose CONSTANTLY under used. (I believe the actress' real name is Florence.)
Regarding the "mystery illness", one other thing that didn't make sense and likely needed more explaining is the fact that the Heart Shaped Herb gives the Black Panthers a healing factor from physical injuries and sicknesses/illnesses. It is very similar to the Super Soldier serum in that way. What kind of illness can be SO strong that it overcomes the Heart Shaped Herb? And if there's an "illness" that powerful, then it seems like that should have been explored more because that would put all of Wakanda at risk. Furthermore, the illness plotline is also so powerful that it overcomes Wakanda's highly advanced tech? This is what happens when you infuse a real life situation into a fictional story. Now they have to explain all of that too...but I'm sure they wont...they'll just want us to accept it and move on.
@@SLICENSLASH true but it's over kill with Ryan Coogler. Does Ryan Coogler in all of his directorial prowess need that cheap kill as added motivation? It's the motivation in every case when it comes to black panter.. There was no need to kill off the queen for added motivation. Namor and his people invading alone was enough motivation. The kill felt unnecessary and emotionless. What's worse is Shuri linking up with her mother's killer at the end of the movie. Lol TF!?!?
@@dmoney7165 No question the Queen's death hurt, but after watching the movie more than once I understand why they went that direction. I would have fought like hell to do something else, but alas it's done & it worked, it's powerful. Shuri has a Batman/Spiderman level origin story. I mean just about any direction they take her character in now has justification. And we can't blame Coogler for writing that was done in Civil War. Which again was a hell of a compelling movie.
@@dmoney7165 Also...Namor following thru on his word just makes him resonate more as a badass character not to be F'd with. Technically the man won the fight in combat with Shuri, & he got the partnership with Wakanda he intended from the beginning.
I agree wholeheartedly with the belief they could have spent more time with T'Challa's funeral. The preparation and days before the funeral, the feel maybe of the wakandans which can also introduce knew characters or stories of how T'Challa impacted them. All the way up to the day before that really dives in depth of what each individual character is going through from Nakia to Umbaku to Okoye. There was a whole lot of story I think could have been told instead of what was presented on screen.
I’m fresh out the theater. I COMPLETELY understand now why your initial fresh out the theater reaction is the way it was. My initial notes/thoughts kinda wild.
I went in fully expecting to want to return Sunday to watch on IMAX since I chose XD for tonight. And I honestly don’t have the urge to want to re-watch it all right now.
I saw it for the second time and fully, and I was very dejected and ultimately disappointed with the path they took to ultimately close the door on Wakanda for some time now with this film.
Same! I wanted to love this movie, but left conflicted and confused over some choices made. Underwhelmed by the final battle. I feel like this is an ok movie to watch on Disney+ but I don’t feel the need to pay again. Due to the somber tone, i don’t think this has the same rewatch-ability. I do wish the creators box office success. Would love for another black panther movie with black panther in it.
I saw it yesterday I told my family I have no review. This movie is based on your interpretation. It’s good and it’s a questionable film at the same time.
If the Queen already knew about the son, why did she ask Nakia why she didn’t come to the funeral? She should have already known why since Nakia’s reasoning was tied to her son. The son was definitely a last minute addition.
I’m thinking she met her grandson for the first time when she went to Hati to speak with Nakia. I believe Ryan expects the audience to be smart enough to fill in some blanks and not to spell out everything for us.
@@genodiaz2769 but isn't that what she was gonna tell Shuri when she said I have to tell you something about your brother, right before they met Namor? That happened before she went to Haiti.
What are you talking about he died! It's realistic most black men don't outlive the people they loved in life and they have to pick up the peices like every fucking death it's the people that are living that go through grief(which you saw in the movie). You guys watch movies with your mouths not your eyes.
@@Bruhman1992 lol maybe they should have them you would have a semblance of a reason to complain. I am not going to go into how your view of black women are flawed however I will say that It wasn't her choice like most black women he died once again but somehow it's on them even though they are providing for the child. Weird.
An intellectual, informative & thought provoking discussion & analysis of what is quite frankly a controversial film. Kudos to E-Man for dropping some serious insight & preaching it up. Well done gentleman.
They’ve almost killed off the ENTIRE cast of the first Black Panther movie! T’Challa THE MAIN CHARACTER, T’Chaka, Zuri, Killmonger, Klaw, Killmonger’s father, and now Queen Ramonda. That’s 7 major characters after 2 movies. Tells you a lot about how Marvel and Disney see this franchise!
Agree Seems like they want to exterminate Colonize Conquer Exploit Expose The Entire Franchise as a footnote in History Striped Straight from the Conics Reimagine to bring Forth Tropes and Trauma Tragically Depicted for Entertainment instead of a Heroic fantasy Story We get Dramatic Tragic Wakanda Forever MCU Mission Accomplished this Franchise is on its predestined plan Only fans of Tchalla can still hope for a Recast of Tchalla voices lifted in Chorus Recast Tchalla fans use your voice be the hero of this narrative Recast Tchalla!!!!!!
Well, when you yourself can't escape black trauma in real life because you keep blaming the white man for everything and begging the same white men to make movies for you, what do you expect. How about you create your own studios?
THIS RIGHT HERE! is my exact issue as well. Sigh, Not even our fictional stories can make it passed trauma. I can only imagine how this will effect Black boys as they also see No real male presence yet again. Its like we cant escape this shit.
No one told Eman, when shuri said that line about burning the world… was moments before Namor came out of the water.. he obviously had his head popped above the water istening to them talk before walking onto land to encounter queen and shuri…
Wasn’t Tony Stark at MIT at the beginning of Civil War. Maybe her project was one of the projects funded by Tony’s September Foundation. She enrolled at MIT at the age of 15 so it would only make sense she was there during his presentation and benefitted from the foundation money.
A note on re-casting and character changes. You know when I was young and would watch soap operas, some played roles for 20+ years others would get replaced. It used to be off putting to me but I appreciate that the recasts never changed the story or narrative. Audiences would just adapt and keep enjoying the show.
Yea I remember when they recasted the guy from the show Spartacus because he died of cancer. He wants that big of a name or anything but it was definitely a difference when the new actor came in but after a few episodes you kinda just get used to him.
Movie ruined by way too many masculine butch looking female characters and by now what must be clearly recognized as the standard barrage of needless hysterical screaming and crying scenes of black women (outdated gimmick). There's only around 10-20 mins of total screen time with any dialogue or action featuring a prominent black male character and 2 out of the 3 are/were deceased (RIP CB). No doubt black women are incredibly strong but they're just as incredibly beautiful (all skin tones) too as any other group of women. Yet the majority of black female roles are always cast as either obese or masculine looking characters especially when darker complexion. However it's the opposite for the majority of female roles for white and other race of actresses. The non-black actresses in Wonder Women and other Marvel films (or really almost every film) are always cast for their feminine beauty especially their stars. Why is it so different for our black female characters?
@@each1teach18Exactly! Someone else sees it. It's the anti-blackness disguised as 'girl power'. I have even seen an article which tries to pass of the masculininsed black women as 'challenging westernised/colonial impositions of beauty standards.' It's completely messed up but it's a trick that seems to work well over there in the west.
Some of the choices in writing & directing of this movie are just jarring, like Queen Ramonda's death; but the movie itself is just too good. I've watched it multiple times trying to peel back layers & found it to be truly sound. I can appreciate those that didn't like the direction of the choices made, it leaves a lot of questions about the direction of the franchise, but art is supposed to make you feel something & this movie accomplishes that in spades. For me the Queen's death hurt...watching Shuri reluctantly take on the mantle of the Black Panther by recreating the heart shaped erb & visiting the ancestral plane in hopes of seeing her Brother & Mother one last time just to end up seeing Killmonger instead....that right there always gets me in the feels. The movie pulled off so much. It introduced a new character & a whole new culture to the MCU. It took 5 brown-darkskinned (unapologetically black) women & made them lead characters in a major Marvel/Disney blockbuster movie. And their acting was exquisite. If anything the hard & controversial choices made in this movie should have an effect on the next movie's storyline. Think about it...since Wakanda began opening itself to the international community in Civil War nothing but death has befell their hierarchy. First the father, then the son, then the mother. This has to change the outlook of the leadership of the country.
Hey guys I think Namor would go to the surface cause remember the ppl said they would get glimpses of him sometimes. Idk if that’s enough to cover how he knows what happens in the world but I guess that might be it.
T'challa is too important to culture (pop culture, comics culture, black culture) to kill off in such a flippant way. The positive representation T'challa brought is vital, and I feel terrible for black fathers and sons right now. The reason they killed Ramonda is because they ran out of male characters to kill to show stakes and provide drama. It's a side effect of beating men down to raise women up.
T’Challa’s death shouldn’t mirrored real life. If you are going to kill him, he should have died a warrior’s or a hero’s death. That could have been done on screen and completely cgi
Okay. Went to bed and woke up to watch this video. I whole heartedly agree there are multiple narrative issues and storytelling choices I’m shocked they went with.
I wonder if the Black Panthers get all the combat experience of the previous Black Panthers like the comics. It would be great of they explained if that was the case.
@@Haramu-Fal0 Yes the sole purpose of the Black Panther was to eventually be held by T'Challa because like Dr.Strange hes suppose to be the best of his respected people. It was all planned out, how the 616 comics universe needed heroes at these specific times and T'Challa was one of those special humans the universe needed. It jus adds another layer to why killing him made no sense especially when you read the comics. Its not just a Mantle the story was ALWAYS about T'Challa.
M'Baku is an interesting character, in that, understanding how y'all seem to feel, he was positioned as the lens to frame the strength of Wakanda through. Not even 7 years from coming down from Jabariland, M'Baku was not only a voice that Queen Ramonda leaned on, he was a voice that all the other Tribe leaders leaned on, and a voice that Shuri came to lean on (even if he also made jokes). The Namor deal, again using the frame, was to make even more clear the scope of what's in play here (similar to Hulk versus Thanos, to leave no doubt). Beyond that, it was only Nakia and RiRi Williams who saw the mannequin punch; Shuri showing up in the suit was to great effect, but her faceoff with M'Baku (the lens being used for strength of Wakanda) helped confirm her as Black Panther to the rest of the ruling society present. Shuri "pressing him" in her rage, and M'Baku not fighting her on it (even when he made it clear that he disagreed with the move) seemed to be a diplomatic move between leaders, far more than anything else. Still, in the end, M'Baku (the frame for the strength of Wakanda) stands proudly as King of Wakanda, with Shuri out in the world as Black Panther (working on other things), and a hidden heir of the late King T'Challa being all of 6 years old, an easy 20 years removed from even being considered as viable to challenge. We'll see how the Wakanda TV series goes, and how Phase 5 plays out (seems pretty clear that there will be a major play by the US against Wakanda, with the fallout from that going every which way), but Black Panther 3 is set up, rather well, to be a King M'Baku led film (with some interesting ways to go for the conflict)
I like Letitia Wright but her character just wasn’t strong enough to carry the movie for me. It should’ve been either Killmonger (though I’m not a fan of MJB’s acting at all), Nakia or M’Baku. There was also a dark cloud hanging over the movie due to two tributes to Chad - we love him, but one substantial one would’ve sufficed. I don’t think we needed to constantly be reminded of the tragedy in a superhero movie. And I thought Michaela Cole’s part would be much bigger than that based on her involvement in the press tour. She actually wasn’t necessary to the story in any way. Also… WHY did the queen have to go out like that????? I didn’t dislike the film, but I didn’t love it. Still, Ryan Couglar is very talented, and I appreciated what he’s done.
My question is, instead of whining about why Marvel didn’t live up to their expectations, why don’t these brothers get together with creatives and produce their own feature films, the way that they wish to see them? 🤷🏾
I was bothered at the timeline; T'Challa gets Nakia pregnant, then gets snapped out of existence by Thanos. Five years go by, Hulk unsnaps, End Game happens, T'Challa is back, then he dies of strange illness, then a year passes, and T'Challa Jr is only 5 years old? And why is Nakia treated as being a superior warrior to Okoye? She, by herself, was able to infiltrate Namor's kingdom and rescue Shuri and Ri-Ri? Because she's a spy?!?! And I was very disappointed to see the Queen harboring beef with Okoye for following her duties in the first Black Panther! Not a good look for the Queen! T'Challa got whupped by Killmonger fair and square, which was a problem I had with the first movie--it would've been better if Killmonger had cheated to win so that T'Challa's return didn't feel like such a technicality. I wish they would've used the plot thread they already had--T'Challa's death from the snap--and set the movie within the 5 years Wakanda had to go without the Black Panther/T'Challa. I can't remember if Shuri died in the snap, but if she didn't, she could be there. And the snap could be the reason why Namor came to the surface to see WTF is going on when half his people suddenly disappeared! How much of a better story would that have been?
Hi. I understand your point about the death of the queen but I was thinking ...isn't death what normally motivates superheroes. Superman death of parents, batman death of parents Spiderman loss of uncle and aunt in current movie and black Adam death of son. So I don't thinks its really Coogler but maybe a comic book theme. Love ya'll appreciate the open honesty.
Appreciate everyone’s thoughts on the film. Some things I agreed on, some things I don’t, some things that changed my PoV on some aspects of the movie. I’m still processing what I saw last night, but I enjoyed what I saw despite its cons. Not a perfect movie, not a superior sequel, but a nice film to continue the Black Panther arc.
I really don’t understand the big problem with killing the Queen. This movie has stakes. Shuri earns her arch (unlike RiRi). Feels like people are nitpicking this movie for doing the same thing all superhero movies (even the good ones) do. Really think people who don’t like this movie (based on their review) are caught up in personal beliefs and not evaluating the actual movie. The Queen dying was Powerful and served the story well…..even if you didn’t like it. And how are the men weak? They’re just not the main focus. Killmonger was intense. M’baku was a mentor, Atuma kicked ass.
@@natesamadhi33 I didn't know if you were a leader you can never lose or be wrong about some times that strange since that's a part of being human. Your view of weakness is weird. She challenged him and he soared above the occasion. He was present, a protector and provider to his people and became king. You don't have to be the loudest or even the one standing in front to be a leader. Most of the time it's the dudes that are in the back run the show soooo... You people ignore his arch because he doesn't show the specific type of man you want to see but men aren't monoliths.
@@yourvalentine3726 don't put words in my mouth: there's a difference between wanting a leader to be a brute vs wanting him to be competent. M'Baku has proven to be already be competent, and they didn't give respect to him the way they did in the 1st BP and Infinity War. Nobody is asking him to be a warmonger or be perfect obviously, but for God's sake, everyone knows he could've done MORE. They kept him somewhat stagnant is my problem. They could've done MORE with him, and that includes doing "background" things. My point still stands about Shuri making him look weak, because when she became the Black Panther , she just waltzed in and started talking shit, and M'Baku just took it, despite M'Baku already having more experience as a leader & him having valid points about his reservations to this war.
It's a well made movie and I can see with not recasting T'Challa they wanted to give Shuri the heroes journey by including the queen's death but with that said.... Marvel Studios has prioritized pushing agendas and studio financial decisions by sacrificing their characters to expand their market over quality storytelling.
@@babytoshiro7014 There is. 1. Incel playbook 101. Make up NEW arbitrary rules that never existed before to gatekeep without ever intending to actually live up to those rules. ie. Mary Sue. Shuri is labeled a Mary Sue but she fails to save T'Chala. Some men are complaining about Wakanda being so advanced to save Agent Ross in BP1 but can't do it for T'Chala. Bullet wounds are different procedures to biological cures. Shuri is also flawed, she allows her rage to lead her to battle. 2. This movie was basically character analysis of each secondary character since these women were reduced to "tropes" in BP 1. Men are always whining about rewarding women's shallow girl power messages. This movie has subtle development and arcs all the way for each character. Nakia even comes in like 45 minutes later and has an arc. 3. He judged a movie without actually seeing it due to what a TH-camr says who already started a campaign to belittle the franchise before it got released. How many opinions did he get before making that final decision? He already wrote off the movie because of his own biases.
@@suzygirl1843 2 things can be true...one can have zero issue with T'Challa not being the Black Panther and Shuri or someone else being the BP, but still wanting him to be alive. He's been shown to be badass without the herb or suit.
@@paulmartin7705 But he still got his ass kicked that time he didn't have the herb. Kilmonger threw him off the cliff. Don't bring up comics because 90% of the audience never read those.
18:18 right. My 12yr old nephew said to me in the theater yesterday "why you crying, you act like it's real" And I responded because HE'S REALLY DEAD! They definitely intertwined Chadwick&Black Panther
Love when you three link up. Thank you for this review. I am glad you men were able to go see this and provide this review because I myself can not and will not support this movie. Hearing that Ryan Coogler’s propensity to exploit Black Death/trauma is a mainstay with this film, I now know my decision isn’t a wrong one. Also, the depiction of yet another farther-less black child….hard pass!!
It amazes me that black women continue to tout we can do the same things as men, but then clown the women or any movie that show women empowered. Blame Coogler instead of the women. A man wrote this. Not a woman. A man. Obviously he is hating on men, not the women. They tried to do the best they could under the circumstances. It wasn't like they removed him. I'm speaking on the women. Disney, marvel, coogler and others decided to do this.
@@michellmoree5376 so…I take it you didn’t read my comment just wanted a reason to speak nonsense. NOWHERE in my comment did I degrade or belittle the women of this film. NOWHERE did I absolve Coogler of his decision to write this trauma filled, seemingly mess, of a movie. Please understand that we can champion the women of this franchise while still wanting to see the POSITIVE portrayal of strong black male leaders. Please next time fully read to understand and not solely to respond.
This was my last hope for the MCU. Sadly they killed T'Challa and this universe in one movie. The decisions they made in the story, character origins, and character motivations were totally mind blowing. They have no clue how to bring these comics to the screen anymore. Totally lost. It's disgusting what they've done.
I think the original script tchalla was going to stop the war between wakanda and talocan because shuri wants to kill namor for ramonda tchalla stopping her because he went through the same thing with his father
Yeah I think Ramonda dying was probably in the original script. Plenty of stories period have characters dying for motivation which is why this a very strange criticism to me regardless if T'Challa was killed too.
@@achoop8770 It's like his shtick or something. I don't know WTH dude's fascinations with black death and absentee fathers are in all these movies, but he needs to get some real freaking therapy. #BetterHelp is super affordable!
The bottom line is that you guys have built prejudice against the movie to the point you have issue with it but dont know how you would have made a better movie. Ryan is an artist and he made a great art with what he had.
Just watched… It was aight. Agree with much of what was said here but you brothers also brought a lot of things to my attention I didn’t think about at first. Great break down.
...even if it was always predetermined that Miss Bassett would not appear in anymore than 2 Black Panther movies, even if the original idea was to kill off the Queen, once Chadwick passed and BP2 needed re-writing, it should have been reconsidered xxx
@@Haramu-Fal0 No it was literally to make way for MBaku to become King so Wakanda can have a strong black man in charge again is that not what everybody wanted?
@@Byronic19134 M'Baku is a joke in this film. He literally served no purpose in this movie other than comics relief. He's not smart, he's not noble, and he's primitive. No this is not what POSITIVE BLACK MALE REPRESENTATION looks like. Let's not play coy. 👎🏾😒
I'm looking forward to B cutting loose. After hearing stuff about what goes on in this film and the mid credit scene, I have no intentions of seeing this film ever. In fact, I won't be checking any MCU products in the foreseeable future.
Nah I’m there with you if Nate Moore Anti-Black Male beliefs seep into Captain America New World Order. Which making it a sleeper Hulk film seems like some Nate Moore foolery. That’s my final straw. If Nate Moore tries to emasculate Sam I’m out. Actually if they emasculate Sam then 3 months later Blade I am really DONE with MCU as a whole. Malcolm Spellman is writing this and he wrote TFAWS that line “They will never let a Black Man be Captain America” hit me hard emotionally if the film has any moments like that I’m happy. So for me I’m a fan still until 540 days from now. I’ll never see this film in theaters and will wait for Disney +
People are forgetting Shuri was trained in combat because she is Royalty, she just wasn't a top fighter or anything. That's why Namor beat her down bad when they did pure hand to hand combat.
That movie was shit. You all got to remember Ryan Coogler had talented minds of the actor such as the late Chadwick Boseman, Sylvester Stallone, and Michael B. Jordan helping him direct the films. Wakanda Forever was ASS!
Great convo fellas I went in not expecting it to be better but completely different I must say the movie was good. I never followed every comic book so I’m not as critical as you guys that do. Glad she wasn’t the black panther right from the beginning. Only like the last half hours or so. The tribute was great. I would watch it again tho.
Brothers…baby T’Challa is a slap in the face. The single mother trope with no father to raise him. Rather insulting. And for T’Challa to die from a ‘mysterious illness?’ So Bast and Sekhmet completely neglected their avatar’s health??!! Lazy and grief stricken writing.
It's crazy because the heart shape herb is suppose to make TChalla immune to poison via sickness. The fact the super soldier serum can keep Steve's body temperature high enough to survive a block of ice. When in reality Steve was suppose to die within 30 seconds being locked in that ice but instead survived 100 years. While tchalla can't even be immune to sickness or poisons. Really says something about disney
@@BigReuben97 Ryan Coogler should have walked away from this film so a proper T’Challa could have been casted. I’ll wait till the theater runs is over and it comes out on physical media and Disney+ to watch it. Read the plot so I know what happens.
Single mother trope? Then stop creating single moms. Black men, that's on YOU for that stereotype. You're even creating single moms in white communities.
@@suzygirl1843 I think u need to be quiet because it's not all on black men while moms are single mothers. Please shut your goofy ass up on a problem in the Black community you now very little of.
IMAX theaters reportedly down on the east coast for Black Panther Wakanda Forever. Just got a refund at the AMC here in Georgia. Unfortunately going to have to watch it in 3D on the first row tonight.
Namor was the highlight of the movie💯 Extremely cool look and character design. Very powerful and ancient looking. He really felt like a supernatural force/ god. I loved Shuri and Okoye as well but the ending left me feeling somber and empty. I’m looking forward to seeing Namor again but I really have no desire to watch it a second time. RIP CHAD, T’challa, and THE MCU… it was nice will it lasted
Namor and his people are better tactically because he’s operated with a war like mentality ever since he saw the slavers when he went to bury his mother. Kilmonger said Wakanda was soft and it still shows overall in this movie. They know the world wants their resources but they are only proactive on a small scale.
I posted a comment on E-man’s youtube channel saying I would not go to see BP2 in the theater or elsewhere. I signed the Re-Cast T’Challa Petition. I did not want to see the movie because I did not want to continuously experience the grieving and mourning Chadwick Boseman and T’Challa’s death. While I am not an emotionally fragile person, I am a very spiritual person and vigilant about guarding my peace and vibrational frequency. I almost changed my mind about seeing the movie in the theater and purchased tickets for my sister and I to go today (Nov 9th) at 12:00 PM. What changed my mind and wanted to see the movie because I thought about Ryan Coogler’s motivation. If I had the opportunity to memorialize and commemorate the life and death of a well-respected, admired close friend/character in a MC Universe film, I would do it, in the most reverent yet spectacularly fantastic way. But last night (Nov 8th), I saw a spoiler filled review. I learned that Queen Ramonda is killed in the movie, and that turned me off again. I know the most phenomenally regal, royal, and righteous Angela Bassett is still alive, well and kicking. But suspending my reality to fully immerse and enjoy the movie, I would once again descend into grief and mourning. So I will pass on BP2, for now.
You are not missing anything, this movie just goes on and on it, it’s depressing and boring, has some good acting, chi and action scenes but that’s literally it. It’s a mess and I got exactly the type of film I was expecting.
@@Proself37 Nothing to say because I'm right. You're moaning because you feel a strong male has been snatched from you. Here's a solution. Create your own movies and studios.
B. this was a major miss for me. It wasnt enough story for 2hrs and 40mins. It was slow and repeated itself. Also Riri was obnoxious as hell. Namor was okay except he’s just another Killmonger. PLUS killing Angela Basset is a crazy choice. Not to mention doing Winston Duke dirty.
Riri was so forced in. I love the actress and she’s a beautiful sister but her inclusion in here wasn’t it. And Namor’s motivation was jus not understandable. He blamed what European colonizers did to his people on other victims of systematic oppression. He’s been around for hundred of years. Does he know nothing about the struggles of other non white especially black people had to go through? Everyone else was victims just like his ppl, the motivation for him was very weak and doesn’t make sense for someone who has been around for years and who should know the differences between each civilization/ country and people.
@@Proself37 When the US government shows up and found the vibranium in the ocean… all he had to do is pop up and say “Hey! Back the fuk off or we will destroy you. Bye ✌️” This guy took on Wakanda one handed. Why was he even worried. Personally I didnt like Riri at all. The character is weak sauce. The way she was written was obnoxious. Plus what was she welding and hammering in Wakanda? That suit wasn’t hammered bro. It was a fukin space suit. They print FLOWERS there!
@@Proself37 Riri was a stroke of genius otherwise this wouldn't lead to Queen Ramonda's death. Besides, they have to bring in Black American representation every movie. Wakanda is AFRICAN, remember. Kilmonger and Riri are black American representation who either influence or learn from Wakanda.
Just finished watching the movie and I’m so conflicted. I can’t say the movie is bad but no great either. This is a downfall for me compared to the first for the story overall. The fight scenes were great but gosh the movie time could’ve been cut down but 30 mins. Some of the parts and characters were not needed. Great action and beautiful to look at but I am sad to see the deflation of black men representation in this film and I’m a black woman. The men were placed in the back. I don’t mind it but that’s what the excitement of the 1st film. They could’ve kept that damn cameo. 🤦🏾♀️
Incels are the ones disappointed because they can't get their rocks off to a fictional version for black male greatness even though they're not form Africa. Sorry but there are no African Kingdoms that men have built that have been maintained. Why glorify something so unreal? If Wakanda is to be built, women will engineer it (with the help of China and the West) because they care. Meanwhile, where did the African men who created cellphones go? To the West. Imagine what they could've brought to their homelands, oh well, it's up to the ladies now.
Because she doesn't want to be leader. And she was 16 at the time. In this movie, she is forced in that position since ALL the royal members die. Didn't you watch the movie? Black American men are confusing since you own nothing and have zero Kingdoms. Maybe you should be a little humble since Chinese are neo-colonizing Africa and Latinos are taking up your neighborhoods and Rap industry in America.
That whole thing was silly... how easily Killmonger takes over Wakanda. You would think that murdering the high priest in charge of the ritual combat, Zuri, during the ritual combat, would disqualify you from winning. That's like freaking murdering the referee and then saying, "I win!". Wakanda is a pretty stupid country for being so advanced. W'Kabi should've been a bad guy too... not Okoye's lover and T'Challa's friend. He should've been naturally disdainful of T'Challa, and a weasel. Then it would make sense to have W'Kabi and his tribe basically helping Killmonger take over by force... not because of some incredibly stupid, vaguely defined traditions.
@@GeekOwtLowd I almost agree with u but I hated how they did wkabi in the comics he is Tachalla trusted friend think Rhodes and Tony or cap and Bucky but in the film they are at odds and he is sent to jail and instead the king of a black nation is best friends with a white cia agent from America who got Tachalla to open his nation up to the world….have you noticed in any movie black men don’t get to be friends with other black men …
I’m a “movie addict” too B.A… they just take me there 😌👌🏾#escapism as y’all say. When I was younger, on the weekends, my family would hit a blockbusters and we’d all decide on a movie to watch. That was all she wrote. 1 after the other. Mighty Joe Young. The Matrix. The Iron Giant. Etc *I was hooked* 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿 P.S. Great review gents. PREASH.
I raced home to watch your review on this. My Mom died on 10/28 so it was very hard not to break down during the movie. They did a great job!! The Chadwick tribute was sooo beautiful!!🤎🤎🤎
I thought Daniel kaluyya dad was killed in the explosion to the wall in the first black panther, that’s why he was on killmonger side when he killed klaw, he lost both his parents did he not or just one parent, let me know what happened cuz I’m confused
I can't see how the Avengers and other characters wouldn't have come to the funeral of Tchalla...and Tchalla should have been the one in the Ancestral Plane
Wakanda Forever ending was kind of pointless, Shuri could have contract Namor with the seashell and avoided the death of her people. Where was War Machine,Bucky, and Falcon or The Avengers? How doesn't America know about Altanis? When Iron Man 2 shows Altanis on Nick Fury's map.
Sounds like Disney Marvel dropped the ball on this one. We will never see T’Challa fighting Namor on screen unless they do a complete reboot. That doesn’t seem likely since they keep using these old, recycled Fox actors. Nothing after Endgame was any good and not everything before that was great.
Apologies for what feels like spamming this video pretty soon... but M'Baku has only recently come down from Jabariland to fight T'Challa, help fight N'Jadaka, and have his tribe rejoin Wakanda for the first time since the initial schism. Why would he want to leave Wakanda for anything, even after surviving The Snap and providing trusted counsel for the 5-year gap? 6/7 years removed from only ever being in Jabariland... yet he's supposed to just treppe into Boston to be a part of a covert mission? That would seem like a pretty clear and random plot shield too, imo
Instead of recasting the character these fools have given the Black Panther T’Challa a son he will never raise himself. Absolutely disrespectful and a slap in the face to the character. I’m insulted as a comic book fan and as a black man. We’re really gonna go for a fatherless black child troupe in the Black Panther franchise a franchise that was supposed to be AGAINST black stereotypes. Lmaoo I’m sorry but until they bring T’Challa back I’m never going to be invested in Wakanda or whatever they do with the BP franchise in the MCU going forward. I’m completely disgusted with the direction they went this is a terrible idea. It’s bad fan fiction
We're in the era of Kang and What If? If we can believe in What If that the Ravagers could kidnap T'Challa from the most advanced country on Earth, why not Kang kidnap OUR version of T'Challa back in the past when he was about 15-splintering the timeline and raising him as his son to be the general of his army. Maybe Jonathan Majors as Kang in the mid-credit scene looking on in pride as his teenaged "son" whoops but in training.
It makes no sense that M'Baku wasn't the Protector of Wakanda after T'Challa's death. He is already strong so he doesn't need the heart shaped herb just give him an ape version of the black panther suit and that man will kick some ass without the herb.
Just returned from the movie theaters. Watched black panther wakanda forever I am a 51 year old black man watched the movie with 2 of my 3 daughters who are 28 and 30 This was the movie they needed to make maybe not for all the fans but for those who needed some type of closure especially the cast and crew everyone is in titled too there opinion and can feel any way they want It's easy as fans to say just do this and I would of done that especially when we no we are never going to be in those situations and responsible and writing and directing a movie I don't like the question anyone motives Especially when what they are doing doesn't effect me personally I can separate real men from fantasy
Exactly, thank you. I am also encouraging my uncles to bring their daughters in so they can steer them to tech. This is a HUGE advertisement for tech and IT programs, in my opinion.
Man, I had such higher hopes for this movie! If this movie would have been more tightly focused, and just had a BETTER Black Panther choice, and we the paying audiences got what we wanted: A new male Black Panther vs Namor the Sub-Mariner - then this could EASILY have been Marvel's saving grace and best film.
Shuri is a good Black Panther here. She is the medium of T'Chala and Kilmonger. Stop being intimidated by girls and support them. Perhaps Africa wouldn't be such a shit hole. Men are the one in charge and they can't elevate it. African women on the other hand would Make Africa Great with the help of the Chinese, of course.
I knew it was a longshot but I was really hoping that some how, some way they'd make another multiverse version of Killmonger the BP in the end. One of the "What If" episodes with Killmonger in it made me think it just may happen, but as soon as Shuri saw him in the ancestral plane I was like "welp".
Killmonger not coming back is litterally the one if the most disappointing aspect of the movie. Another thing that was just as bad is the death of the queen as well. I was shocked!
I was upset about the queen dying too. I notice thought with certain movies when they pay closer attention to certain characters it means the end of them on the movie or show they are on.
I'm leaving the theater now and I'm very disappointed my emotions are hard to explain because I know its going to get backlash but this was not it marvel / Ryan
@@suzygirl1843 Non comic nerds felt this may have been a mistake as well they're just more forgiving because they dont know what else could have been done due to their lack of knowledge of the comics.
@@Nytellem Forgiving, they are literally trashing the film and it's only been released 1 day. Sorry but they already made up their minds. th-cam.com/video/BIysh7YJv8A/w-d-xo.html
Them giving a fictional character the same kind of death as its actor is very very bad writing and in poor taste and makes absolutely no sense in the world of wakanda feel like they did it purely to envoke real emotions then chose to kill another powerful black person in the ONLY black driven franchise in the whole marvel universe, thats like when oaul walker died and fast 7 they killed his character off by car crash just BAD TASTE
1. Fresh Out Of Theater Reaction - bit.ly/3VtVNEU
2. Non Spoilers Review - bit.ly/3UidhTz
3. Spoilers Review Part 1 - bit.ly/3fP8T0v
4. Spoilers Review Part 2 - bit.ly/3hsOwqb
5. Spoilers Review Part 3 - bit.ly/3VAbPwT
6. Spoilers Review Part 4 - bit.ly/3VerIJE
Great vid guys....It's pronounced "TalocA'n" like "khan/con", not can like "trash can"😂
The use of character death to motivate also applied to Namor, his mother's death, led him to seek to bury her in her birthplace, only to find hostile Colonial Spaniards treating Mayans poorly, and they attacked him and he killed them.
I would had been glad if all of them dies! This movie is trash......
Not sure if they've started it in the movies, but in the comics, Ramonda is T'Challas step mother, she is only mother to Shuri if I remember correctly. T'Challas real mother died during child birth. I wonder if they were playing off this in the movie without ever stating it in the movie.
Movie ruined by way too many masculine butch looking female characters and by now what must be clearly recognized as the standard barrage of needless hysterical screaming and crying scenes of black women (outdated gimmick). There's only around 10-20 mins of total screen time with any dialogue or action featuring a prominent black male character and 2 out of the 3 are/were deceased (RIP CB).
No doubt black women are incredibly strong but they're just as incredibly beautiful (all skin tones) too as any other group of women. Yet the majority of black female roles are always cast as either obese or masculine looking characters especially when darker complexion. However it's the opposite for the majority of female roles for white and other race of actresses. The non-black actresses in Wonder Women and other Marvel films (or really almost every film) are always cast for their feminine beauty especially their stars. Why is it so different for our black female characters?
Chadwick's T'Challa was at his best in Civil War.He felt neutered or like a sideline character in the first Black Panther film.Wish we could've got a full movie of Civil War T'Challa.
I agree, even his suit looked better in civil war
exactly..so many people in full cap mode
I didn’t like that movie but he was one of the best parts of it. The conflict of this movie felt like civil war where there’s no villain and it’s just heroes or in this case heroes and an anti hero fighting which is just as uninteresting and not well done. The ending was just as lame as the one in that film. It’s just like what was this all for really?
Indeed, he was more vicious and more aggressive in CW. At the same time he felt he was chasing his fathers murderer.
Because Ryan coogler cant write, his best film is based on real life. And the best work of the other guy he writes with is a TV show, it's average and again based on real life .... give them space to just be creative and they make shit, just like those game of thrones guys (when they went away from the source material)....theres too many conmen in Hollywood getting their hands on good properties, rings of power is another example too
The Coogler left out the most crucial character in the whole movie and I'm not talking about T'Challa.
It was *Wakanda* itself.
This is facts! The way mayians are so happy with this movie is so telling who the movie was pandered too.
Okoye’s character stood out to me especially during her scene with Queen Mother after the Chicago incident. Honestly this scene was the most emotionally moving scene in the entire film for me.
It was good acting 👏
The mission to get Riri should have involved Okoye, Shuri, Michaela Coles's character and the other woman whose CONSTANTLY under used. (I believe the actress' real name is Florence.)
Facts! Okoye is my favorite character. I shed a few tears with her during this scene.
I want to see it again for that scene alone!!!
Acted their asses off
this was a great group review. much appreciated perspectives
Thank yoU!
Regarding the "mystery illness", one other thing that didn't make sense and likely needed more explaining is the fact that the Heart Shaped Herb gives the Black Panthers a healing factor from physical injuries and sicknesses/illnesses. It is very similar to the Super Soldier serum in that way. What kind of illness can be SO strong that it overcomes the Heart Shaped Herb? And if there's an "illness" that powerful, then it seems like that should have been explored more because that would put all of Wakanda at risk. Furthermore, the illness plotline is also so powerful that it overcomes Wakanda's highly advanced tech? This is what happens when you infuse a real life situation into a fictional story. Now they have to explain all of that too...but I'm sure they wont...they'll just want us to accept it and move on.
This movie took a turn underthe sea so heavy I thought the Little Mermaid was finna pop out with vibranim shells.
The son is the ultimate plot device. No way he’d keep that secret from his own sister
Black Panther did have a son. It was with Storm from X-Men
@@justinperry2352 I hear you, but I’m speaking on the way it was done in the movie
@@justinperry2352 He doesn’t have a son that’s canon.
My thoughts as well. They were so close so why be secretive about that.
@@kingofthe313 his son with storm is canon
That whole death/motivation thing E-man breaks down is deep!!! Great observation!!
Naw Not really...that just explains the motivation of like 80% of comic book movies.
@@SLICENSLASH true but it's over kill with Ryan Coogler. Does Ryan Coogler in all of his directorial prowess need that cheap kill as added motivation? It's the motivation in every case when it comes to black panter.. There was no need to kill off the queen for added motivation. Namor and his people invading alone was enough motivation. The kill felt unnecessary and emotionless. What's worse is Shuri linking up with her mother's killer at the end of the movie. Lol TF!?!?
@@dmoney7165 No question the Queen's death hurt, but after watching the movie more than once I understand why they went that direction. I would have fought like hell to do something else, but alas it's done & it worked, it's powerful. Shuri has a Batman/Spiderman level origin story. I mean just about any direction they take her character in now has justification.
And we can't blame Coogler for writing that was done in Civil War. Which again was a hell of a compelling movie.
@@dmoney7165 "Linking up" ??? It was a truce to spare civilian lives. You could see in her eyes she wanted to kill him.
@@dmoney7165 Also...Namor following thru on his word just makes him resonate more as a badass character not to be F'd with.
Technically the man won the fight in combat with Shuri, & he got the partnership with Wakanda he intended from the beginning.
I agree wholeheartedly with the belief they could have spent more time with T'Challa's funeral. The preparation and days before the funeral, the feel maybe of the wakandans which can also introduce knew characters or stories of how T'Challa impacted them. All the way up to the day before that really dives in depth of what each individual character is going through from Nakia to Umbaku to Okoye. There was a whole lot of story I think could have been told instead of what was presented on screen.
I’m fresh out the theater. I COMPLETELY understand now why your initial fresh out the theater reaction is the way it was. My initial notes/thoughts kinda wild.
I went in fully expecting to want to return Sunday to watch on IMAX since I chose XD for tonight. And I honestly don’t have the urge to want to re-watch it all right now.
@@Lisax05 it’s so long, the movie never ends.
I saw it for the second time and fully, and I was very dejected and ultimately disappointed with the path they took to ultimately close the door on Wakanda for some time now with this film.
Same! I wanted to love this movie, but left conflicted and confused over some choices made. Underwhelmed by the final battle. I feel like this is an ok movie to watch on Disney+ but I don’t feel the need to pay again. Due to the somber tone, i don’t think this has the same rewatch-ability. I do wish the creators box office success. Would love for another black panther movie with black panther in it.
I saw it yesterday I told my family I have no review. This movie is based on your interpretation. It’s good and it’s a questionable film at the same time.
If the Queen already knew about the son, why did she ask Nakia why she didn’t come to the funeral? She should have already known why since Nakia’s reasoning was tied to her son. The son was definitely a last minute addition.
I think It was a cheap additional trope no one wanted, and just bad writing.
I could be wrong but I thought that’s when she probably told her.
I’m thinking she met her grandson for the first time when she went to Hati to speak with Nakia. I believe Ryan expects the audience to be smart enough to fill in some blanks and not to spell out everything for us.
She didn't know then. She was told after she went to Haiti and met him then
@@genodiaz2769 but isn't that what she was gonna tell Shuri when she said I have to tell you something about your brother, right before they met Namor? That happened before she went to Haiti.
Marvel with the baby momma and fatherless black boy stereotype
Stop blaming the Jews. Black men are creating baby mamas in white communities too so where are the lies?
What are you talking about he died! It's realistic most black men don't outlive the people they loved in life and they have to pick up the peices like every fucking death it's the people that are living that go through grief(which you saw in the movie). You guys watch movies with your mouths not your eyes.
@@yourvalentine3726 I guess they should've put weave and ghetto black women stereotypes in the movie they already got the single motherhood down.
@@Bruhman1992 lol maybe they should have them you would have a semblance of a reason to complain. I am not going to go into how your view of black women are flawed however I will say that It wasn't her choice like most black women he died once again but somehow it's on them even though they are providing for the child. Weird.
@@yourvalentine3726 like black women choose to have children out of wedlock by pookies not anyone else fault they're dying.
An intellectual, informative & thought provoking discussion & analysis of what is quite frankly a controversial film. Kudos to E-Man for dropping some serious insight & preaching it up. Well done gentleman.
They’ve almost killed off the ENTIRE cast of the first Black Panther movie! T’Challa THE MAIN CHARACTER, T’Chaka, Zuri, Killmonger, Klaw, Killmonger’s father, and now Queen Ramonda. That’s 7 major characters after 2 movies. Tells you a lot about how Marvel and Disney see this franchise!
Agree Seems like they want to exterminate Colonize Conquer Exploit Expose The Entire Franchise as a footnote in History Striped Straight from the Conics Reimagine to bring Forth Tropes and Trauma Tragically Depicted for Entertainment instead of a Heroic fantasy Story We get Dramatic Tragic Wakanda Forever MCU Mission Accomplished this Franchise is on its predestined plan Only fans of Tchalla can still hope for a Recast of Tchalla voices lifted in Chorus Recast Tchalla fans use your voice be the hero of this narrative Recast Tchalla!!!!!!
Wow! Exactly that's crazy
It's like we can't escape Black trauma in these movies not even MCU movies that's why i'm not feeling Wakanda Forever right now
Well, when you yourself can't escape black trauma in real life because you keep blaming the white man for everything and begging the same white men to make movies for you, what do you expect. How about you create your own studios?
@@suzygirl1843 Shut up Karen & stay in your lane
THIS RIGHT HERE! is my exact issue as well. Sigh, Not even our fictional stories can make it passed trauma. I can only imagine how this will effect Black boys as they also see No real male presence yet again. Its like we cant escape this shit.
@@Nytellem Shit being the key word.
Own or be owned.....overall ownership is not US
Summary:
_They _*_almost_*_ did the best they could with what they _*_didn’t_*_ have._ 😒😔
I agree. This is why I give this movie props, and I’m not being to harsh on where the movie falls short.
Perfect!👏🏾👏🏾🤣🤣
No one told Eman, when shuri said that line about burning the world… was moments before Namor came out of the water.. he obviously had his head popped above the water istening to them talk before walking onto land to encounter queen and shuri…
Wasn’t Tony Stark at MIT at the beginning of Civil War. Maybe her project was one of the projects funded by Tony’s September Foundation. She enrolled at MIT at the age of 15 so it would only make sense she was there during his presentation and benefitted from the foundation money.
It might be touched upon in her show. The film does not even provide compelling context for her role in this, outside of one major plot point.
You may correct, however, the fact that we as the audience, have to make these mental connections to make it make sense is a real flaw in the writing.
A note on re-casting and character changes. You know when I was young and would watch soap operas, some played roles for 20+ years others would get replaced. It used to be off putting to me but I appreciate that the recasts never changed the story or narrative. Audiences would just adapt and keep enjoying the show.
Yea I remember when they recasted the guy from the show Spartacus because he died of cancer. He wants that big of a name or anything but it was definitely a difference when the new actor came in but after a few episodes you kinda just get used to him.
Good points.
DITTO!!!👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Movie ruined by way too many masculine butch looking female characters and by now what must be clearly recognized as the standard barrage of needless hysterical screaming and crying scenes of black women (outdated gimmick). There's only around 10-20 mins of total screen time with any dialogue or action featuring a prominent black male character and 2 out of the 3 are/were deceased (RIP CB).
No doubt black women are incredibly strong but they're just as incredibly beautiful (all skin tones) too as any other group of women. Yet the majority of black female roles are always cast as either obese or masculine looking characters especially when darker complexion. However it's the opposite for the majority of female roles for white and other race of actresses. The non-black actresses in Wonder Women and other Marvel films (or really almost every film) are always cast for their feminine beauty especially their stars. Why is it so different for our black female characters?
@@each1teach18Exactly! Someone else sees it. It's the anti-blackness disguised as 'girl power'. I have even seen an article which tries to pass of the masculininsed black women as 'challenging westernised/colonial impositions of beauty standards.'
It's completely messed up but it's a trick that seems to work well over there in the west.
Some of the choices in writing & directing of this movie are just jarring, like Queen Ramonda's death; but the movie itself is just too good. I've watched it multiple times trying to peel back layers & found it to be truly sound.
I can appreciate those that didn't like the direction of the choices made, it leaves a lot of questions about the direction of the franchise, but art is supposed to make you feel something & this movie accomplishes that in spades.
For me the Queen's death hurt...watching Shuri reluctantly take on the mantle of the Black Panther by recreating the heart shaped erb & visiting the ancestral plane in hopes of seeing her Brother & Mother one last time just to end up seeing Killmonger instead....that right there always gets me in the feels.
The movie pulled off so much. It introduced a new character & a whole new culture to the MCU. It took 5 brown-darkskinned (unapologetically black) women & made them lead characters in a major Marvel/Disney blockbuster movie. And their acting was exquisite.
If anything the hard & controversial choices made in this movie should have an effect on the next movie's storyline. Think about it...since Wakanda began opening itself to the international community in Civil War nothing but death has befell their hierarchy. First the father, then the son, then the mother. This has to change the outlook of the leadership of the country.
Hey guys I think Namor would go to the surface cause remember the ppl said they would get glimpses of him sometimes. Idk if that’s enough to cover how he knows what happens in the world but I guess that might be it.
T'challa is too important to culture (pop culture, comics culture, black culture) to kill off in such a flippant way. The positive representation T'challa brought is vital, and I feel terrible for black fathers and sons right now. The reason they killed Ramonda is because they ran out of male characters to kill to show stakes and provide drama. It's a side effect of beating men down to raise women up.
T’Challa’s death shouldn’t mirrored real life. If you are going to kill him, he should have died a warrior’s or a hero’s death. That could have been done on screen and completely cgi
I just said the exact same thing smh that was the wrong route we just live threw that reality
Death don't always work like that. That's the point
I think they did just fine
Okay. Went to bed and woke up to watch this video. I whole heartedly agree there are multiple narrative issues and storytelling choices I’m shocked they went with.
I wonder if the Black Panthers get all the combat experience of the previous Black Panthers like the comics. It would be great of they explained if that was the case.
That only happens for T'Challa he has a special connection with Bast no other BP has had as he is Lord of the Dead also
@@Haramu-Fal0 Yes the sole purpose of the Black Panther was to eventually be held by T'Challa because like Dr.Strange hes suppose to be the best of his respected people. It was all planned out, how the 616 comics universe needed heroes at these specific times and T'Challa was one of those special humans the universe needed. It jus adds another layer to why killing him made no sense especially when you read the comics. Its not just a Mantle the story was ALWAYS about T'Challa.
M'Baku is an interesting character, in that, understanding how y'all seem to feel, he was positioned as the lens to frame the strength of Wakanda through.
Not even 7 years from coming down from Jabariland, M'Baku was not only a voice that Queen Ramonda leaned on, he was a voice that all the other Tribe leaders leaned on, and a voice that Shuri came to lean on (even if he also made jokes).
The Namor deal, again using the frame, was to make even more clear the scope of what's in play here (similar to Hulk versus Thanos, to leave no doubt).
Beyond that, it was only Nakia and RiRi Williams who saw the mannequin punch; Shuri showing up in the suit was to great effect, but her faceoff with M'Baku (the lens being used for strength of Wakanda) helped confirm her as Black Panther to the rest of the ruling society present.
Shuri "pressing him" in her rage, and M'Baku not fighting her on it (even when he made it clear that he disagreed with the move) seemed to be a diplomatic move between leaders, far more than anything else.
Still, in the end, M'Baku (the frame for the strength of Wakanda) stands proudly as King of Wakanda, with Shuri out in the world as Black Panther (working on other things), and a hidden heir of the late King T'Challa being all of 6 years old, an easy 20 years removed from even being considered as viable to challenge.
We'll see how the Wakanda TV series goes, and how Phase 5 plays out (seems pretty clear that there will be a major play by the US against Wakanda, with the fallout from that going every which way), but Black Panther 3 is set up, rather well, to be a King M'Baku led film (with some interesting ways to go for the conflict)
I like Letitia Wright but her character just wasn’t strong enough to carry the movie for me. It should’ve been either Killmonger (though I’m not a fan of MJB’s acting at all), Nakia or M’Baku. There was also a dark cloud hanging over the movie due to two tributes to Chad - we love him, but one substantial one would’ve sufficed. I don’t think we needed to constantly be reminded of the tragedy in a superhero movie. And I thought Michaela Cole’s part would be much bigger than that based on her involvement in the press tour. She actually wasn’t necessary to the story in any way. Also… WHY did the queen have to go out like that????? I didn’t dislike the film, but I didn’t love it. Still, Ryan Couglar is very talented, and I appreciated what he’s done.
Lol at E-mans point about Namor hearing every damn thing 🤣
This was a GREAT discussion and MAN! Is this movie a mixed bag or what?
It's good. I think it works more character piece than a Marvel product. Martin Scorcese needs to shoosh now, they listened to you.
My question is, instead of whining about why Marvel didn’t live up to their expectations, why don’t these brothers get together with creatives and produce their own feature films, the way that they wish to see them? 🤷🏾
I was bothered at the timeline; T'Challa gets Nakia pregnant, then gets snapped out of existence by Thanos. Five years go by, Hulk unsnaps, End Game happens, T'Challa is back, then he dies of strange illness, then a year passes, and T'Challa Jr is only 5 years old? And why is Nakia treated as being a superior warrior to Okoye? She, by herself, was able to infiltrate Namor's kingdom and rescue Shuri and Ri-Ri? Because she's a spy?!?! And I was very disappointed to see the Queen harboring beef with Okoye for following her duties in the first Black Panther! Not a good look for the Queen! T'Challa got whupped by Killmonger fair and square, which was a problem I had with the first movie--it would've been better if Killmonger had cheated to win so that T'Challa's return didn't feel like such a technicality. I wish they would've used the plot thread they already had--T'Challa's death from the snap--and set the movie within the 5 years Wakanda had to go without the Black Panther/T'Challa. I can't remember if Shuri died in the snap, but if she didn't, she could be there. And the snap could be the reason why Namor came to the surface to see WTF is going on when half his people suddenly disappeared! How much of a better story would that have been?
Hi. I understand your point about the death of the queen but I was thinking ...isn't death what normally motivates superheroes. Superman death of parents, batman death of parents Spiderman loss of uncle and aunt in current movie and black Adam death of son. So I don't thinks its really Coogler but maybe a comic book theme. Love ya'll appreciate the open honesty.
Appreciate everyone’s thoughts on the film. Some things I agreed on, some things I don’t, some things that changed my PoV on some aspects of the movie. I’m still processing what I saw last night, but I enjoyed what I saw despite its cons. Not a perfect movie, not a superior sequel, but a nice film to continue the Black Panther arc.
they trashed the movie like it's not worth anyone's time. This was the first and last review i'll ever watch from them.
I really don’t understand the big problem with killing the Queen. This movie has stakes. Shuri earns her arch (unlike RiRi). Feels like people are nitpicking this movie for doing the same thing all superhero movies (even the good ones) do. Really think people who don’t like this movie (based on their review) are caught up in personal beliefs and not evaluating the actual movie. The Queen dying was Powerful and served the story well…..even if you didn’t like it.
And how are the men weak? They’re just not the main focus. Killmonger was intense. M’baku was a mentor, Atuma kicked ass.
Yeah the men were not weak at all.
What men are even in this movie tbh. MBaku and who???
M'Baku kept getting his ass kicked and Shuri made M'Baku look like a weak leader, even though M'Baku has more experience as a real leader.
@@natesamadhi33 I didn't know if you were a leader you can never lose or be wrong about some times that strange since that's a part of being human. Your view of weakness is weird. She challenged him and he soared above the occasion. He was present, a protector and provider to his people and became king. You don't have to be the loudest or even the one standing in front to be a leader. Most of the time it's the dudes that are in the back run the show soooo... You people ignore his arch because he doesn't show the specific type of man you want to see but men aren't monoliths.
@@yourvalentine3726 don't put words in my mouth: there's a difference between wanting a leader to be a brute vs wanting him to be competent. M'Baku has proven to be already be competent, and they didn't give respect to him the way they did in the 1st BP and Infinity War. Nobody is asking him to be a warmonger or be perfect obviously, but for God's sake, everyone knows he could've done MORE. They kept him somewhat stagnant is my problem. They could've done MORE with him, and that includes doing "background" things.
My point still stands about Shuri making him look weak, because when she became the Black Panther , she just waltzed in and started talking shit, and M'Baku just took it, despite M'Baku already having more experience as a leader & him having valid points about his reservations to this war.
Y'all barely talked about Okoye. She deserves more recognition.
It's a well made movie and I can see with not recasting T'Challa they wanted to give Shuri the heroes journey by including the queen's death but with that said.... Marvel Studios has prioritized pushing agendas and studio financial decisions by sacrificing their characters to expand their market over quality storytelling.
I saw the movie yesterday and I loved it. The ONLY thing I didn't like is Queen Mother's death.
I hated that part. It was definitely the wrong decision...
Only thing I could think of is Angela Bassett probably wanted to be done with the role
I think it was gonna happen anyway. It was even more impactful bc we already lost T’Challa in the same movie.
Secret Invasion and Armor Wars. Imma pass on BP
Incel alert
@@suzygirl1843 Why leave such a comment. No evidence this person being an incel
@@babytoshiro7014 There is.
1. Incel playbook 101. Make up NEW arbitrary rules that never existed before to gatekeep without ever intending to actually live up to those rules. ie. Mary Sue. Shuri is labeled a Mary Sue but she fails to save T'Chala. Some men are complaining about Wakanda being so advanced to save Agent Ross in BP1 but can't do it for T'Chala. Bullet wounds are different procedures to biological cures. Shuri is also flawed, she allows her rage to lead her to battle.
2. This movie was basically character analysis of each secondary character since these women were reduced to "tropes" in BP 1. Men are always whining about rewarding women's shallow girl power messages. This movie has subtle development and arcs all the way for each character. Nakia even comes in like 45 minutes later and has an arc.
3. He judged a movie without actually seeing it due to what a TH-camr says who already started a campaign to belittle the franchise before it got released. How many opinions did he get before making that final decision? He already wrote off the movie because of his own biases.
@@suzygirl1843 2 things can be true...one can have zero issue with T'Challa not being the Black Panther and Shuri or someone else being the BP, but still wanting him to be alive. He's been shown to be badass without the herb or suit.
@@paulmartin7705 But he still got his ass kicked that time he didn't have the herb. Kilmonger threw him off the cliff. Don't bring up comics because 90% of the audience never read those.
I wonder if the queen was trying to protect her grandson by not acknowledging him in a public setting.
Why? She was the only one there
18:18 right. My 12yr old nephew said to me in the theater yesterday "why you crying, you act like it's real" And I responded because HE'S REALLY DEAD! They definitely intertwined Chadwick&Black Panther
"What is this movie about?" "Who is the main character?" EXACTLY!
Love when you three link up. Thank you for this review. I am glad you men were able to go see this and provide this review because I myself can not and will not support this movie. Hearing that Ryan Coogler’s propensity to exploit Black Death/trauma is a mainstay with this film, I now know my decision isn’t a wrong one. Also, the depiction of yet another farther-less black child….hard pass!!
It amazes me that black women continue to tout we can do the same things as men, but then clown the women or any movie that show women empowered. Blame Coogler instead of the women. A man wrote this. Not a woman. A man. Obviously he is hating on men, not the women. They tried to do the best they could under the circumstances. It wasn't like they removed him. I'm speaking on the women. Disney, marvel, coogler and others decided to do this.
@@michellmoree5376 so…I take it you didn’t read my comment just wanted a reason to speak nonsense. NOWHERE in my comment did I degrade or belittle the women of this film. NOWHERE did I absolve Coogler of his decision to write this trauma filled, seemingly mess, of a movie. Please understand that we can champion the women of this franchise while still wanting to see the POSITIVE portrayal of strong black male leaders. Please next time fully read to understand and not solely to respond.
@@ShayP76 Kudos to you Sis💯❣️
@@Haramu-Fal0 ✊🏾✊🏾✊🏾
This was my last hope for the MCU. Sadly they killed T'Challa and this universe in one movie. The decisions they made in the story, character origins, and character motivations were totally mind blowing. They have no clue how to bring these comics to the screen anymore. Totally lost. It's disgusting what they've done.
Took the words out of my mouth.
💯
I think the original script tchalla was going to stop the war between wakanda and talocan because shuri wants to kill namor for ramonda tchalla stopping her because he went through the same thing with his father
Yeah I think Ramonda dying was probably in the original script. Plenty of stories period have characters dying for motivation which is why this a very strange criticism to me regardless if T'Challa was killed too.
It's all unnecessary to me. The whole "death to motivate the protagonist" trope is played out and it's lazy writing.
@@Haramu-Fal0 agreed even in the comics ramonda is still alive and she’s a councillor of tchalla
@@Haramu-Fal0 well then how could Ryan advance a plot 😂?
@@achoop8770 It's like his shtick or something. I don't know WTH dude's fascinations with black death and absentee fathers are in all these movies, but he needs to get some real freaking therapy. #BetterHelp is super affordable!
Damn the bitterness in this review is telling. I watched it last night and enjoyed it. I'm going to see it again tonight
Are you guys kidding me? He saw colonization literal slavery his people being beaten. . Not to mention pollution in the oceans and war.
The bottom line is that you guys have built prejudice against the movie to the point you have issue with it but dont know how you would have made a better movie. Ryan is an artist and he made a great art with what he had.
Just watched… It was aight. Agree with much of what was said here but you brothers also brought a lot of things to my attention I didn’t think about at first. Great break down.
Namor was on Shuri like "I can show you the worrrrrrrrld"
I thought the death of Angela Basset was powerful. It was a powerful moment for her and served purpose in the story. Was def sad to see tho.
It served no purpose. It could've been just as motivating without more black death tropes.
...even if it was always predetermined that Miss Bassett would not appear in anymore than 2 Black Panther movies, even if the original idea was to kill off the Queen, once Chadwick passed and BP2 needed re-writing, it should have been reconsidered xxx
@@Haramu-Fal0 No it was literally to make way for MBaku to become King so Wakanda can have a strong black man in charge again is that not what everybody wanted?
@@Byronic19134 M'Baku is a joke in this film. He literally served no purpose in this movie other than comics relief. He's not smart, he's not noble, and he's primitive. No this is not what POSITIVE BLACK MALE REPRESENTATION looks like. Let's not play coy. 👎🏾😒
T'Challa lost T'Chaka & Shuri lost Queen Ramonda
I'm looking forward to B cutting loose. After hearing stuff about what goes on in this film and the mid credit scene, I have no intentions of seeing this film ever. In fact, I won't be checking any MCU products in the foreseeable future.
I second this!!
This is dumb.
Agreed...this was my last MCU movie...
Nah I’m there with you if Nate Moore Anti-Black Male beliefs seep into Captain America New World Order. Which making it a sleeper Hulk film seems like some Nate Moore foolery. That’s my final straw. If Nate Moore tries to emasculate Sam I’m out. Actually if they emasculate Sam then 3 months later Blade I am really DONE with MCU as a whole. Malcolm Spellman is writing this and he wrote TFAWS that line “They will never let a Black Man be Captain America” hit me hard emotionally if the film has any moments like that I’m happy. So for me I’m a fan still until 540 days from now. I’ll never see this film in theaters and will wait for Disney +
You’re not alone. I’m not seeing the farce. It’s crazy that this movie exists
Just got out the theatre a few hrs ago, I liked it and respected it
One point thing is that Shuri was blinded by revenge. Her battle senses were compromised. Kind of like Killmonger.
People are forgetting Shuri was trained in combat because she is Royalty, she just wasn't a top fighter or anything.
That's why Namor beat her down bad when they did pure hand to hand combat.
That movie was shit. You all got to remember Ryan Coogler had talented minds of the actor such as the late Chadwick Boseman, Sylvester Stallone, and Michael B. Jordan helping him direct the films. Wakanda Forever was ASS!
Great convo fellas I went in not expecting it to be better but completely different I must say the movie was good. I never followed every comic book so I’m not as critical as you guys that do. Glad she wasn’t the black panther right from the beginning. Only like the last half hours or so. The tribute was great. I would watch it again tho.
Brothers…baby T’Challa is a slap in the face. The single mother trope with no father to raise him. Rather insulting. And for T’Challa to die from a ‘mysterious illness?’ So Bast and Sekhmet completely neglected their avatar’s health??!! Lazy and grief stricken writing.
You know Black boys can’t have fathers. Typical White Liberal bull.
It's crazy because the heart shape herb is suppose to make TChalla immune to poison via sickness. The fact the super soldier serum can keep Steve's body temperature high enough to survive a block of ice. When in reality Steve was suppose to die within 30 seconds being locked in that ice but instead survived 100 years. While tchalla can't even be immune to sickness or poisons. Really says something about disney
@@BigReuben97 Ryan Coogler should have walked away from this film so a proper T’Challa could have been casted. I’ll wait till the theater runs is over and it comes out on physical media and Disney+ to watch it. Read the plot so I know what happens.
Single mother trope? Then stop creating single moms. Black men, that's on YOU for that stereotype. You're even creating single moms in white communities.
@@suzygirl1843 I think u need to be quiet because it's not all on black men while moms are single mothers. Please shut your goofy ass up on a problem in the Black community you now very little of.
I can't WAIT for this!!!!
Me either! Because, as a fan of Chadwick and Black Panther, I have ZERO intentions to see a BP movie with no T'Challa.
Thanks and please share 😃
@@ReignSupreme2014 Incel alert.
@@suzygirl1843 Yeah, gotta be an incel because I don't want to see a movie named after a character that isn't in it.
How did Namor sneak in,get in to Wakanda, how was he able to get past the barrier and sneak up on Queen Ramonda, and Shuri,?
Is the barrier underwater, if so how deep under the water. Namor can go lower than subs, maybe the barrier only goes down as low as subs.
IMAX theaters reportedly down on the east coast for Black Panther Wakanda Forever. Just got a refund at the AMC here in Georgia. Unfortunately going to have to watch it in 3D on the first row tonight.
Namor was the highlight of the movie💯 Extremely cool look and character design. Very powerful and ancient looking. He really felt like a supernatural force/ god. I loved Shuri and Okoye as well but the ending left me feeling somber and empty. I’m looking forward to seeing Namor again but I really have no desire to watch it a second time. RIP CHAD, T’challa, and THE MCU… it was nice will it lasted
Powerful? They might as well have tossed handfuls of salt at him to dry him off. Defeated like SpongeBob and Patrick in the first SpongeBob movie. 😂
I didnt think anyone could top Iman in her outfit in the remember the time video. Angela wins hands down, her beauty and presence is just otherworldly
Man, I really wanted to see T'Challa and Storm hook up in a BP3. Guess we need a "What If" movie
How old is Storm & I wonder if baby Tchalla will be set up to marry her
In GA, there was a post credit scene. Have you seen it yet?
With the Jane Foster thing you get all of Thor powers and skills
Namor and his people are better tactically because he’s operated with a war like mentality ever since he saw the slavers when he went to bury his mother. Kilmonger said Wakanda was soft and it still shows overall in this movie. They know the world wants their resources but they are only proactive on a small scale.
I posted a comment on E-man’s youtube channel saying I would not go to see BP2 in the theater or elsewhere. I signed the Re-Cast T’Challa Petition. I did not want to see the movie because I did not want to continuously experience the grieving and mourning Chadwick Boseman and T’Challa’s death. While I am not an emotionally fragile person, I am a very spiritual person and vigilant about guarding my peace and vibrational frequency.
I almost changed my mind about seeing the movie in the theater and purchased tickets for my sister and I to go today (Nov 9th) at 12:00 PM. What changed my mind and wanted to see the movie because I thought about Ryan Coogler’s motivation. If I had the opportunity to memorialize and commemorate the life and death of a well-respected, admired close friend/character in a MC Universe film, I would do it, in the most reverent yet spectacularly fantastic way.
But last night (Nov 8th), I saw a spoiler filled review. I learned that Queen Ramonda is killed in the movie, and that turned me off again. I know the most phenomenally regal, royal, and righteous Angela Bassett is still alive, well and kicking. But suspending my reality to fully immerse and enjoy the movie, I would once again descend into grief and mourning. So I will pass on BP2, for now.
You are not missing anything, this movie just goes on and on it, it’s depressing and boring, has some good acting, chi and action scenes but that’s literally it. It’s a mess and I got exactly the type of film I was expecting.
@@Proself37 The first Black Panther was overhyped. This movie is the perfect sequel as it is character study with the obligated action scenes.
@@suzygirl1843 sure lol.
@@Proself37 Nothing to say because I'm right. You're moaning because you feel a strong male has been snatched from you. Here's a solution. Create your own movies and studios.
@@suzygirl1843 why are you so mad at peoples opinion?
Set my alarm for this live ❤
It's a recording
B. this was a major miss for me. It wasnt enough story for 2hrs and 40mins. It was slow and repeated itself. Also Riri was obnoxious as hell. Namor was okay except he’s just another Killmonger. PLUS killing Angela Basset is a crazy choice. Not to mention doing Winston Duke dirty.
Riri was so forced in. I love the actress and she’s a beautiful sister but her inclusion in here wasn’t it. And Namor’s motivation was jus not understandable. He blamed what European colonizers did to his people on other victims of systematic oppression. He’s been around for hundred of years. Does he know nothing about the struggles of other non white especially black people had to go through? Everyone else was victims just like his ppl, the motivation for him was very weak and doesn’t make sense for someone who has been around for years and who should know the differences between each civilization/ country and people.
@@Proself37 When the US government shows up and found the vibranium in the ocean… all he had to do is pop up and say “Hey! Back the fuk off or we will destroy you. Bye ✌️” This guy took on Wakanda one handed. Why was he even worried.
Personally I didnt like Riri at all. The character is weak sauce. The way she was written was obnoxious. Plus what was she welding and hammering in Wakanda? That suit wasn’t hammered bro. It was a fukin space suit. They print FLOWERS there!
@@Proself37 Riri was a stroke of genius otherwise this wouldn't lead to Queen Ramonda's death. Besides, they have to bring in Black American representation every movie. Wakanda is AFRICAN, remember. Kilmonger and Riri are black American representation who either influence or learn from Wakanda.
Just finished watching the movie and I’m so conflicted. I can’t say the movie is bad but no great either. This is a downfall for me compared to the first for the story overall. The fight scenes were great but gosh the movie time could’ve been cut down but 30 mins. Some of the parts and characters were not needed. Great action and beautiful to look at but I am sad to see the deflation of black men representation in this film and I’m a black woman. The men were placed in the back. I don’t mind it but that’s what the excitement of the 1st film. They could’ve kept that damn cameo. 🤦🏾♀️
Incels are the ones disappointed because they can't get their rocks off to a fictional version for black male greatness even though they're not form Africa. Sorry but there are no African Kingdoms that men have built that have been maintained. Why glorify something so unreal? If Wakanda is to be built, women will engineer it (with the help of China and the West) because they care. Meanwhile, where did the African men who created cellphones go? To the West. Imagine what they could've brought to their homelands, oh well, it's up to the ladies now.
When Killmonger defeated T'Challa they didn't even look at Shuri to take that Herb.
Because she doesn't want to be leader. And she was 16 at the time. In this movie, she is forced in that position since ALL the royal members die. Didn't you watch the movie? Black American men are confusing since you own nothing and have zero Kingdoms. Maybe you should be a little humble since Chinese are neo-colonizing Africa and Latinos are taking up your neighborhoods and Rap industry in America.
EXACTLY. BEEN SAYING THAT ALL ALONG
Right, they went STRAIGHT to Ebaku…
That whole thing was silly... how easily Killmonger takes over Wakanda.
You would think that murdering the high priest in charge of the ritual combat, Zuri, during the ritual combat, would disqualify you from winning.
That's like freaking murdering the referee and then saying, "I win!". Wakanda is a pretty stupid country for being so advanced.
W'Kabi should've been a bad guy too... not Okoye's lover and T'Challa's friend. He should've been naturally disdainful of T'Challa, and a weasel. Then it would make sense to have W'Kabi and his tribe basically helping Killmonger take over by force... not because of some incredibly stupid, vaguely defined traditions.
@@GeekOwtLowd I almost agree with u but I hated how they did wkabi in the comics he is Tachalla trusted friend think Rhodes and Tony or cap and Bucky but in the film they are at odds and he is sent to jail and instead the king of a black nation is best friends with a white cia agent from America who got Tachalla to open his nation up to the world….have you noticed in any movie black men don’t get to be friends with other black men …
I didn’t care for the movie. It was way too busy for me. I didn’t see the point of the “fish” people🙄
I’m a “movie addict” too B.A… they just take me there 😌👌🏾#escapism as y’all say. When I was younger, on the weekends, my family would hit a blockbusters and we’d all decide on a movie to watch. That was all she wrote. 1 after the other. Mighty Joe Young. The Matrix. The Iron Giant. Etc *I was hooked* 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
P.S. Great review gents. PREASH.
Yessir renting VHS cassettes & TGIF Friday was the weekend.
I raced home to watch your review on this. My Mom died on 10/28 so it was very hard not to break down during the movie. They did a great job!! The Chadwick tribute was sooo beautiful!!🤎🤎🤎
I WALKED OUT OF THE THEATER WHEN THEY KILLED QUEEN RAMONDA ---THAT WAS RIDICULOUS
It sound like that side plot was unnecessary.
@@babytoshiro7014 Sounds like most of the plot in general was unnecessary.
I thought Daniel kaluyya dad was killed in the explosion to the wall in the first black panther, that’s why he was on killmonger side when he killed klaw, he lost both his parents did he not or just one parent, let me know what happened cuz I’m confused
You’re right
I can't see how the Avengers and other characters wouldn't have come to the funeral of Tchalla...and Tchalla should have been the one in the Ancestral Plane
Not having seen it, I would think that they would want to keep the death a secret to protect themselves from enemy attacks.
@@samufish the death of T’Challa was public knowledge off rip in this
This movie was rushed and not well written brother. Of course they wouldn’t think to include that.
@@famousthaneus9810 They didn't know him that well. He was a King so they would need an invitation. If Wakanda didn't invite them, oh well
@@suzygirl1843 Bucky and Cap would've been there for sure.
How did the Telocans know to go to Boston to find RiRi Williams?
Wakanda Forever ending was kind of pointless, Shuri could have contract Namor with the seashell and avoided the death of her people. Where was War Machine,Bucky, and Falcon or The Avengers? How doesn't America know about Altanis? When Iron Man 2 shows Altanis on Nick Fury's map.
What about Antoine Fuqua as director for BP3? Would that WORK???!!! Maybe. 🤔
Ryan cooler loves putting black trauma in his movies I'm done with him and mcu.
Brother thats the black experience.
@@choppydell and we can't even win in a damn fairytale !!!!
@@choppydell well not my black experience not all black people experience the same negative shit smh.
@@choppydell this is fiction they didn't need to include negative black stereotypes .
@@Bruhman1992 Marvel's is a black mirror of society. Always has been since its inception
So what happens to the black panther franchise now the franchise is losing characters left and right
It will grow because it's not a comic book movie, it's a film.
@@suzygirl1843 Wrong its a comic book movie. All comic book movies ARE comic book movies😂
I think it will continue but I think Ryan Coogler need to stay away from comic book movies for a a couple of years.
@@babytoshiro7014 No. 90% of audiences don't read comics.
@@suzygirl1843 Yeah those are pigs that will consumer anything that is given to them.
Sounds like Disney Marvel dropped the ball on this one. We will never see T’Challa fighting Namor on screen unless they do a complete reboot. That doesn’t seem likely since they keep using these old, recycled Fox actors. Nothing after Endgame was any good and not everything before that was great.
Werewolf by night was fire tho.
Apologies for what feels like spamming this video pretty soon... but M'Baku has only recently come down from Jabariland to fight T'Challa, help fight N'Jadaka, and have his tribe rejoin Wakanda for the first time since the initial schism.
Why would he want to leave Wakanda for anything, even after surviving The Snap and providing trusted counsel for the 5-year gap?
6/7 years removed from only ever being in Jabariland... yet he's supposed to just treppe into Boston to be a part of a covert mission?
That would seem like a pretty clear and random plot shield too, imo
Instead of recasting the character these fools have given the Black Panther T’Challa a son he will never raise himself. Absolutely disrespectful and a slap in the face to the character. I’m insulted as a comic book fan and as a black man. We’re really gonna go for a fatherless black child troupe in the Black Panther franchise a franchise that was supposed to be AGAINST black stereotypes. Lmaoo I’m sorry but until they bring T’Challa back I’m never going to be invested in Wakanda or whatever they do with the BP franchise in the MCU going forward. I’m completely disgusted with the direction they went this is a terrible idea. It’s bad fan fiction
Everything you said is 100% on point.
We're in the era of Kang and What If? If we can believe in What If that the Ravagers could kidnap T'Challa from the most advanced country on Earth, why not Kang kidnap OUR version of T'Challa back in the past when he was about 15-splintering the timeline and raising him as his son to be the general of his army. Maybe Jonathan Majors as Kang in the mid-credit scene looking on in pride as his teenaged "son" whoops but in training.
I like how Eman immediately re confirms or shuts down any of Kilmongers chances of never returning to Black Panther
I would have been fine with the Queen’s death if it meant anything. Shuri was already in the edge and she remained just on the edge.
It makes no sense that M'Baku wasn't the Protector of Wakanda after T'Challa's death. He is already strong so he doesn't need the heart shaped herb just give him an ape version of the black panther suit and that man will kick some ass without the herb.
Just returned from the movie theaters. Watched black panther wakanda forever
I am a 51 year old black man watched the movie with 2 of my 3 daughters who are 28 and 30
This was the movie they needed to make maybe not for all the fans but for those who needed some type of closure especially the cast and crew everyone is in titled too there opinion and can feel any way they want
It's easy as fans to say just do this and I would of done that especially when we no we are never going to be in those situations and responsible and writing and directing a movie I don't like the question anyone motives
Especially when what they are doing doesn't effect me personally I can separate real men from fantasy
Exactly, thank you. I am also encouraging my uncles to bring their daughters in so they can steer them to tech. This is a HUGE advertisement for tech and IT programs, in my opinion.
great commentary on this film! it had its good and bad and you all discussed them all. thank you!
Man, I had such higher hopes for this movie!
If this movie would have been more tightly focused, and just had a BETTER Black Panther choice, and we the paying audiences got what we wanted: A new male Black Panther vs Namor the Sub-Mariner - then this could EASILY have been Marvel's saving grace and best film.
Shuri is a good Black Panther here. She is the medium of T'Chala and Kilmonger. Stop being intimidated by girls and support them. Perhaps Africa wouldn't be such a shit hole. Men are the one in charge and they can't elevate it. African women on the other hand would Make Africa Great with the help of the Chinese, of course.
I agree and I'm have to say I wouldn't be watching this movie but this spoiler review instead doesn't seem interesting at all to me
I knew it was a longshot but I was really hoping that some how, some way they'd make another multiverse version of Killmonger the BP in the end. One of the "What If" episodes with Killmonger in it made me think it just may happen, but as soon as Shuri saw him in the ancestral plane I was like "welp".
I was hoping that too. I was hoping he was still alive in the water and would help them fight.
Killmonger not coming back is litterally the one if the most disappointing aspect of the movie. Another thing that was just as bad is the death of the queen as well. I was shocked!
I was upset about the queen dying too. I notice thought with certain movies when they pay closer attention to certain characters it means the end of them on the movie or show they are on.
great discussion 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿 i agreed with a lot of the sentiments
I'm leaving the theater now and I'm very disappointed my emotions are hard to explain because I know its going to get backlash but this was not it marvel / Ryan
Only comic nerds are disappointed. Leave that mess alone, these are adaptations to mass audience appeal. Stop gatekeeping
The MCU left movie on the table long term. The Black Panther franchise is done.
@@suzygirl1843 Non comic nerds felt this may have been a mistake as well they're just more forgiving because they dont know what else could have been done due to their lack of knowledge of the comics.
@@Nytellem Forgiving, they are literally trashing the film and it's only been released 1 day. Sorry but they already made up their minds. th-cam.com/video/BIysh7YJv8A/w-d-xo.html
@@suzygirl1843 Well damn, that unexpected.
Them giving a fictional character the same kind of death as its actor is very very bad writing and in poor taste and makes absolutely no sense in the world of wakanda feel like they did it purely to envoke real emotions then chose to kill another powerful black person in the ONLY black driven franchise in the whole marvel universe, thats like when oaul walker died and fast 7 they killed his character off by car crash just BAD TASTE
I’ll be in the theater when this goes live but looking forward to seeing y’all’s chats in the replay.
It's a recording
@@justmyopinion84
You're not live right now?
@@JB-1138 it's a recording
T'Challa dad death was not on Coogler
What is Brandon's problem with kids (Baby T'Challa, Skaar, Thor's daughter) lol?