I'm not sure if they are still doing it but big battery was selling the NMC (lithium ion ) type 58.8v chargers for their lifpo4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries which actually work best and safest with the correct 58.4v lifepo4 chargers everyone else uses as the standard for such 48v 16s packs. Ive read the sister company and manufacturer for these batteries (Battery EVO ) and Big Battery have had a falling out so I dont even know if these are available anymore.
I just switched out my lead acid for lithium. Night and day difference in power and like you mentioned the stock batteries weigh 350lbs. Taking that out is a huge deal. I went with Epoch but I was also considering Big Battery. Both are very high quality kits
The way you can connect your accessories when you install any kind of lithium battery is adding a voltage reducer 48 to 12 connected to the main positive and main negative these are the 2 Cables from the controller
Are these safe to store inside? Before switching, I'd like to see the safety features explained given all the lithium battery fires being reported. Fire departments say each battery should be stamped OEM, locked in a metal box and have it's own charger which shuts down the battery under certain temperatures.
The batteries he used are Lithium Iron Phosphate Chemistry and it is way safer than other Lithium batteries. I too had this concern and have been running this type in 6 carts for over a year with hard use. Rentals.
Lithium batteries are far safer than lead acid. You shouldn't be in a closed in space with a lead acid ever, especially when charging. Lithium is sealed and gives off nothing. As long as you don't puncture them with a projectile or light them on fire, there is nothing to worry about.
What's the difference using 1 vs 2 vs 4 lithium batteries if the end net result is 36 or 48v anyway? Seems that 3 or 4 12v batteries end up much cheaper that a single large 36 or 48v battery?
3 or 4 12v batteries will have a smaller amp output and when wired in series that output doesnt increase like when wired in parallel (it doubles) also the 12v batteries in a series will not stay balanced and over time one of the 12v batteries will reach a full state of charge before the rest and when it does it shuts off charging to all the batteries including the ones that werent yet fully charged over time this difference grows and the battery capacity becomes greatly reduced. Series wiring of lithium batteries is not a good idea without separate chargers for each battery (like the special noco battery charger made for this)
Most 12v lithium batteries can only be series wired with up to 4 connected together before the bms in them wont work correctly making these pack limited to 100a output and then theres the huge balance issue with this.@hxtr-DH
You need to run at lest 2 of these battery’s for good power. And at this time, I think this battery has been discontinued. I ordered 2 in Jan 2023. Desired I need more run time. When I called to order another in Jan 2004 they told me that they don’t make this model anymore. But, lucky they keep a fee for people like me. Now, you only need one 48volt Falcon (which is like 2 eagles in one package). But you can add them up for range.
@@trashman1613you can still order them from battery Evo (the manufacturer who made them for the sister company big battery). There has been some sort of drama between the 2 companies and I believe big battery might be switching to a different manufacturer.
Golf carts take a specific voltage, 36v or 48v or 72v in some cases. They are also designed to run on a certain amount of Amperage. From my experience and knowledge from being a golf cart mechanic, you Need 2 to 3 - 80 to 100amp lithium 48v batteries in parallel to run a cart as designed. Adding 4 or more may require some carts to up grade the controller to a higher amperage or risk burning up the motor and controller. (The average golf cart stock controller is 200- 325 Amps.) There is a lot of specific information in compatibility these Lithium ion battery companies are failing to share. My guess is they know the compatibility isn't right, but is close enough. Stating "add more batteries for more travel" is a white lie... Adding more 48v batteries in parallel only adds more amperage, which can indirectly increase travel distances but not specifically. Amperage for the most part equals torque/power and potentially run time. Too low of amperage is bad and creates heat in the controller and motor, burning it up. Too high of an amperage is bad as well and creates heat in the controller and motor, burning it up...! -Over charge your lithium batteries... BOOM! -Run your batteries too Low or let the batteries get to Cold or Hot..., BOOM goes your wallet. Also, There is no fixing a lithium battery like you can with a acid. To be Clear, I like the concept and think it is headed in the right direction, but the lack of details and specific compatibility for each individual cart, voltage and brand needs to be addressed, especially if you as a individual are buying from a company and not from a Golf cart dealer who knows the right batteries and amperage for your cart. You can not just slap any voltage and any amperage in any cart! I'm not just talking about this video, a lot of Lithium battery companies give very vague information about what you should or should not use/do. ( They make Batteries, not Carts!) The whole add more batteries, get more travel is BS and just a marketing technique to sell batteries. Add to many or too little batteries and you'll fry every electrical component on your cart, even though it is a 48v battery.😂 The one thing no one is talking about, is why not add 4- 12v lithium batteries in series or 6- 8v like a standard set up? What is the benefit besides weight in using 2- 48v lithium batteries in parallel Versus 4- 12v lithium batteries in series? I have a feeling Lithium just can't produce the amount of amperage a Lead Acid battery can at low voltage and has to be ran in Parallel to make up for that.
Volts determine your power load, not Ampacity. If the voltage stayed at 48 and the motor and controller stayed the same, there shouldn't be a difference in power draw. Think of volts as horsepower. Going from 36-48V is like a more powerful engine swap on a car. Volts x Watts = Amps 48 volts is the same whether the battery is lead or lithium. Think of your ampacity as your gas tank size. Adding a larger gas tank does not make you faster or reduce your fuel efficiency either.
I recently came across a really insightful video discussing the cost-effectiveness of converting golf carts to lithium batteries, specifically highlighting Vatrer's products. The video broke down the long-term savings and performance enhancements that can be expected from switching from traditional lead-acid batteries. From what I gathered, Vatrer's lithium batteries seem to offer not only a lighter weight profile which could potentially improve cart handling but also boast a longer life span and faster charging times. The presenter did a great job explaining how these features could benefit regular golfers and those managing large fleets of golf carts. I'm seriously considering upgrading my own cart to a Vatrer lithium battery and was wondering if anyone here has already made the switch? I'm curious about real-world experiences, particularly around longevity and maintenance. Any feedback or tips would be greatly appreciated!
i bought an inverter charge controller that was used with lithium batteries. I already have a daisy chained battery bank of costco golf cart battties. what do i so the system is capable with each other?
@@roymurphy8138 so lithium batteries are good for 100% of their rating since they can be used to full discharge without damage (bms shuts off the battery when at lowest safe voltage which is after the full ah rating is used) and they also have much less voltage sag through the whole range of SOC. lead acid can only be discharged to 50% safely before the battery damage starts occuring shorting life and the cart slows down before that. These packs are 30ah a piece so the 2 pack is 60ah (due to being wired in parallel not series) which is directly comparable to the range of a 120 ah lead acid pack. If you ignore the fact that theres no peukert effect like lead acid has which actually makes the 60ah lithium range more comparable to a brand new 150ah lead acid pack
I bet the BMS in both batteries are the same and work as one or at least know and comminicate as an overall unit. I might be wrong and it is handled by the charger software. There are probably a bunch of software/hardware solutions for this. I hope this helps some! Bob
@@robertallencad1 this is not really accurate the bms do not communicate but due to the fact that the 2 batteries are wired in parallel and not a series their is no balancing issues like you would have with 4 12v lithium solar/rv type batteries wired in series the charger would keep charging while one by one each battery would stop accepting a charge via the bms until the last battery is full. not the most ideal way to do it but with the correct charger voltage of 58.4v the battery would theoretically not overcharge to an unsafe damaging level anyway if the bms failed to shut down the charging input. This is one reason the specific charging voltage for a 16cell 48v lifepo4 battery is between 55.2 and 58.4v (not 58,8v like the chargers Big battery were selling with these kits)
Best to not buy the charger from big battery unless they now sell the correct 58.4v 16s lifepo4 charger to go with it. When using a 58.8v charger (meant for 4.2v NMC type cell batteries) here you would be relying on the overvoltage safety protection circuitry in the bms to shut down the charging on the battery every time which is not good practice and simply not as safe.. Lifepo4 chemistry is 3.65v max per cell and a 48v pack is made of 16 cells in a series which = 58.4v and this is why 58.4v MAX is recommended for such batteries and what the competitors all use.
Right now lithium is cheap. Get it while you can. I switched everything except my truck over to lithium iron phosphate. I will be building a 28' cargo trailer into a RV with 2000 watts of solar and 24v lithium batteries. Heat will be done with two of the Chinese diesel heaters and cooking will be all electric. No propane! Water will be heated with a diesel heater water heater conversion kit. A dual motor ebike will tow my kayak to the lakes from my camping spots in the state parks.
You had Four 48 v batteries, could you simply run the cart with One 48v battery? I'm guessing you have Four 48v batteries simply for a longer run time? Am I mistaken? I simply can't afford Four lithium batteries lol, I'd just buy me another vehicle for that cost :)
Not sure even if this is relevant to you now, but the amp/hour rating is the important part. Just installed an allied 36v 105ah battery conversion kit, 1x 36 volt lifepo4 battery is doing the job of 6 lead acid batteries plus some it seems. If I ever need to add more capacity, the manufacturer of the kit offers add on batteries and wiring instructions.
@@tboogz284can I ask who you used. I’m sitting here thinking about my cart that has sat for a year and the memories I’m missing by not having it. My kids love golf cart rides
I have a golf cart and I would have preferred be electric, however I ended up with a gas powered cart. I do not use my golf cart for golf and I live in the north eastern United States. I do not charge my electric car indoors nor do I keep it there. I would not keep a golf cart with lithium ion batteries in my garage.
And people love a good news story that supports what they want to believe.. Yet far far more golf courses and building in general have still burned down from things like faulty building wiring or even critters chewing on such wiring...
Imagine getting a case of range anxiety...on a golf course! If you get out and walk you will help your health and save the lithium for those who think that they really need it.
I'm not sure if they are still doing it but big battery was selling the NMC (lithium ion ) type 58.8v chargers for their lifpo4 (lithium iron phosphate) batteries which actually work best and safest with the correct 58.4v lifepo4 chargers everyone else uses as the standard for such 48v 16s packs. Ive read the sister company and manufacturer for these batteries (Battery EVO ) and Big Battery have had a falling out so I dont even know if these are available anymore.
I just switched out my lead acid for lithium. Night and day difference in power and like you mentioned the stock batteries weigh 350lbs. Taking that out is a huge deal. I went with Epoch but I was also considering Big Battery. Both are very high quality kits
Was it hard to do it at home?
@@chrisginocyou didn’t just see how easy it was?
Follow the same steps from this video and you’ll be fine.
Where did you find the new charging receptacle? I have a Club cart precedent and I want to do the same thing.
I did this upgrade also, very happy. Now I want to install a hookup for a 3000 watt, pure sine inverter. Any wiring suggestions?
Where do you hook up the voltage step down for accessories like lights, cell phone charger, etc? Great video.
I was looking for that answer too.
The way you can connect your accessories when you install any kind of lithium battery is adding a voltage reducer 48 to 12 connected to the main positive and main negative these are the 2 Cables from the controller
Are these safe to store inside? Before switching, I'd like to see the safety features explained given all the lithium battery fires being reported. Fire departments say each battery should be stamped OEM, locked in a metal box and have it's own charger which shuts down the battery under certain temperatures.
The batteries he used are Lithium Iron Phosphate Chemistry and it is way safer than other Lithium batteries. I too had this concern and have been running this type in 6 carts for over a year with hard use. Rentals.
Lithium batteries are far safer than lead acid. You shouldn't be in a closed in space with a lead acid ever, especially when charging. Lithium is sealed and gives off nothing. As long as you don't puncture them with a projectile or light them on fire, there is nothing to worry about.
Great video. I have a 2018 Club Car and wondered what you were installing on the dashboard.
What's the difference using 1 vs 2 vs 4 lithium batteries if the end net result is 36 or 48v anyway? Seems that 3 or 4 12v batteries end up much cheaper that a single large 36 or 48v battery?
3 or 4 12v batteries will have a smaller amp output and when wired in series that output doesnt increase like when wired in parallel (it doubles) also the 12v batteries in a series will not stay balanced and over time one of the 12v batteries will reach a full state of charge before the rest and when it does it shuts off charging to all the batteries including the ones that werent yet fully charged over time this difference grows and the battery capacity becomes greatly reduced. Series wiring of lithium batteries is not a good idea without separate chargers for each battery (like the special noco battery charger made for this)
Most 12v lithium batteries can only be series wired with up to 4 connected together before the bms in them wont work correctly making these pack limited to 100a output and then theres the huge balance issue with this.@hxtr-DH
You need to run at lest 2 of these battery’s for good power. And at this time, I think this battery has been discontinued. I ordered 2 in Jan 2023. Desired I need more run time. When I called to order another in Jan 2004 they told me that they don’t make this model anymore. But, lucky they keep a fee for people like me. Now, you only need one 48volt Falcon (which is like 2 eagles in one package). But you can add them up for range.
@@trashman1613you can still order them from battery Evo (the manufacturer who made them for the sister company big battery). There has been some sort of drama between the 2 companies and I believe big battery might be switching to a different manufacturer.
Golf carts take a specific voltage, 36v or 48v or 72v in some cases. They are also designed to run on a certain amount of Amperage.
From my experience and knowledge from being a golf cart mechanic, you Need 2 to 3 - 80 to 100amp lithium 48v batteries in parallel to run a cart as designed. Adding 4 or more may require some carts to up grade the controller to a higher amperage or risk burning up the motor and controller. (The average golf cart stock controller is 200- 325 Amps.)
There is a lot of specific information in compatibility these Lithium ion battery companies are failing to share. My guess is they know the compatibility isn't right, but is close enough.
Stating "add more batteries for more travel" is a white lie...
Adding more 48v batteries in parallel only adds more amperage, which can indirectly increase travel distances but not specifically. Amperage for the most part equals torque/power and potentially run time.
Too low of amperage is bad and creates heat in the controller and motor, burning it up. Too high of an amperage is bad as well and creates heat in the controller and motor, burning it up...!
-Over charge your lithium batteries... BOOM!
-Run your batteries too Low or let the batteries get to Cold or Hot..., BOOM goes your wallet.
Also, There is no fixing a lithium battery like you can with a acid.
To be Clear, I like the concept and think it is headed in the right direction, but the lack of details and specific compatibility for each individual cart, voltage and brand needs to be addressed, especially if you as a individual are buying from a company and not from a Golf cart dealer who knows the right batteries and amperage for your cart. You can not just slap any voltage and any amperage in any cart! I'm not just talking about this video, a lot of Lithium battery companies give very vague information about what you should or should not use/do. ( They make Batteries, not Carts!)
The whole add more batteries, get more travel is BS and just a marketing technique to sell batteries. Add to many or too little batteries and you'll fry every electrical component on your cart, even though it is a 48v battery.😂
The one thing no one is talking about, is why not add 4- 12v lithium batteries in series or 6- 8v like a standard set up? What is the benefit besides weight in using 2- 48v lithium batteries in parallel Versus 4- 12v lithium batteries in series? I have a feeling Lithium just can't produce the amount of amperage a Lead Acid battery can at low voltage and has to be ran in Parallel to make up for that.
Volts determine your power load, not Ampacity. If the voltage stayed at 48 and the motor and controller stayed the same, there shouldn't be a difference in power draw.
Think of volts as horsepower. Going from 36-48V is like a more powerful engine swap on a car.
Volts x Watts = Amps
48 volts is the same whether the battery is lead or lithium.
Think of your ampacity as your gas tank size. Adding a larger gas tank does not make you faster or reduce your fuel efficiency either.
I recently came across a really insightful video discussing the cost-effectiveness of converting golf carts to lithium batteries, specifically highlighting Vatrer's products. The video broke down the long-term savings and performance enhancements that can be expected from switching from traditional lead-acid batteries.
From what I gathered, Vatrer's lithium batteries seem to offer not only a lighter weight profile which could potentially improve cart handling but also boast a longer life span and faster charging times. The presenter did a great job explaining how these features could benefit regular golfers and those managing large fleets of golf carts.
I'm seriously considering upgrading my own cart to a Vatrer lithium battery and was wondering if anyone here has already made the switch? I'm curious about real-world experiences, particularly around longevity and maintenance. Any feedback or tips would be greatly appreciated!
what's the difference in range if you use 2x 48v lithium ion batteries vs 4 like you did? thx
Can I do this with my lead acid battery Geo Solectria? It is 144 volt.
Thank you. Do you come to the cart or do I need pay some to get you. I am in Orlando. You sound like you're honest.
i bought an inverter charge controller that was used with lithium batteries.
I already have a daisy chained battery bank of costco golf cart battties.
what do i so the system is capable with each other?
Thank you. Do you come to the cart or do I need pay some to get you. I am in Orlando. You sound like you're honest. 😊
Would this work on a 2013 EZGO?
In your list of 2 batteries but you used 4 is there a kit for that?
How much were the batteries?
What is the Amp hour? Does the 4 lithium ion batteries = to the 6 lead acid batteries
2 lithium batteries is equal to 6 lead acid. I just added 2 more to double the range
@@rogueengineer that doesn’t answer the question. Each of the 48 volt batteries has an amp hour rating. What is it? 25? 30?
@@roymurphy8138 48v30ah
@@roymurphy8138 so lithium batteries are good for 100% of their rating since they can be used to full discharge without damage (bms shuts off the battery when at lowest safe voltage which is after the full ah rating is used) and they also have much less voltage sag through the whole range of SOC. lead acid can only be discharged to 50% safely before the battery damage starts occuring shorting life and the cart slows down before that. These packs are 30ah a piece so the 2 pack is 60ah (due to being wired in parallel not series) which is directly comparable to the range of a 120 ah lead acid pack. If you ignore the fact that theres no peukert effect like lead acid has which actually makes the 60ah lithium range more comparable to a brand new 150ah lead acid pack
Where can I buy these batteries
Great explanation
what keeps these batteries balanced with each other during charging/discharging?
I bet the BMS in both batteries are the same and work as one or at least know and comminicate as an overall unit. I might be wrong and it is handled by the charger software. There are probably a bunch of software/hardware solutions for this. I hope this helps some! Bob
@@robertallencad1 this is not really accurate the bms do not communicate but due to the fact that the 2 batteries are wired in parallel and not a series their is no balancing issues like you would have with 4 12v lithium solar/rv type batteries wired in series the charger would keep charging while one by one each battery would stop accepting a charge via the bms until the last battery is full. not the most ideal way to do it but with the correct charger voltage of 58.4v the battery would theoretically not overcharge to an unsafe damaging level anyway if the bms failed to shut down the charging input. This is one reason the specific charging voltage for a 16cell 48v lifepo4 battery is between 55.2 and 58.4v (not 58,8v like the chargers Big battery were selling with these kits)
Thank you, Neighbor 👍
I was under the impression that lights were lower voltage. Won’t these batteries blow your lights?
They are wired through a voltage step down converter.
might be a dumb question but if i get just one 48v battery, do i need the busbar?
I think you have to have a minimum of 2 batteries.
@@rogueengineer okay, thank you for the teply
I have a club car ds and want to use lithium battery , do you recommend lithium battery for a gas golf cart?
Completely unnecessary
Is it faster
What’s the cost of the new batteries compared to old batteries
At 8:39 he has a comparison of the kit vs older batteries!
About the same but you do need a new charger so that’s the added cost
@@rogueengineerwas the charger the only other component they needed to be replaced?
Best to not buy the charger from big battery unless they now sell the correct 58.4v 16s lifepo4 charger to go with it. When using a 58.8v charger (meant for 4.2v NMC type cell batteries) here you would be relying on the overvoltage safety protection circuitry in the bms to shut down the charging on the battery every time which is not good practice and simply not as safe.. Lifepo4 chemistry is 3.65v max per cell and a 48v pack is made of 16 cells in a series which = 58.4v and this is why 58.4v MAX is recommended for such batteries and what the competitors all use.
Very good info,
where did you buy the waterproof plug device to be able to use the old charging hole under the seat ?
amzn.to/3PEoBux
Right now lithium is cheap. Get it while you can. I switched everything except my truck over to lithium iron phosphate. I will be building a 28' cargo trailer into a RV with 2000 watts of solar and 24v lithium batteries. Heat will be done with two of the Chinese diesel heaters and cooking will be all electric. No propane! Water will be heated with a diesel heater water heater conversion kit. A dual motor ebike will tow my kayak to the lakes from my camping spots in the state parks.
You had Four 48 v batteries, could you simply run the cart with One 48v battery? I'm guessing you have Four 48v batteries simply for a longer run time? Am I mistaken? I simply can't afford Four lithium batteries lol, I'd just buy me another vehicle for that cost :)
No. The less batteries or less cells the weaker your golf cart. One battery wront even move a hundred lbs
Not sure even if this is relevant to you now, but the amp/hour rating is the important part. Just installed an allied 36v 105ah battery conversion kit, 1x 36 volt lifepo4 battery is doing the job of 6 lead acid batteries plus some it seems. If I ever need to add more capacity, the manufacturer of the kit offers add on batteries and wiring instructions.
@@tboogz284can I ask who you used. I’m sitting here thinking about my cart that has sat for a year and the memories I’m missing by not having it. My kids love golf cart rides
1800 Bucks!! $2K for the 36Volt!
No BMS to manage/balance voltage? Bad idea..
it's built into the batteries
Beware big battery packs suck moisture will get in and the company will do nothing mine were 6 months old….. good luck
Bummer..What environment were you using them in?
Now i "need" a golf cart
😂😂😂
I think the lithium golf cart batteries are coming down just like the car lithium batteries.
I have a golf cart and I would have preferred be electric, however I ended up with a gas powered cart. I do not use my golf cart for golf and I live in the north eastern United States. I do not charge my electric car indoors nor do I keep it there. I would not keep a golf cart with lithium ion batteries in my garage.
I will never have another gas cart. I have an e-bike I've kept in the garage for years with no problems.
Lithium battery was considered responsible for a fire at the eastern golfclubmelbourns Victoria, Australia. Golf club completely destroyed.
And people love a good news story that supports what they want to believe.. Yet far far more golf courses and building in general have still burned down from things like faulty building wiring or even critters chewing on such wiring...
👍
Imagine getting a case of range anxiety...on a golf course!
If you get out and walk you will help your health and save the lithium for those who think that they really need it.
How much toxic pollution did producing the lithium ion batteries produce. The lead acid batteries are recycled easily.
White Karen Johnson Ronald Anderson Donna
Man stop being weak. Put 6 of those suckers in there.
Looks like Rogue Engineer doesn't answer the questions people ask.
I did this upgrade also, very happy. Now I want to install a hookup for a 3000 watt, pure sine inverter. Any wiring suggestions?
Thank you. Do you come to the cart or do I need pay some to get you. I am in Orlando. You sound like you're honest.