Basically Sicilians allow you to take 1 additional hit from spear- or pikemen at almost all points in the game if you're on similar upgrades with your opponent. Feudal Age: ------------------- Scouts: 45 HP, 0 Armor Spearmen: 3+15 Attack > 3 hit scouts vs Sicilians (-33% bonus damage): 3+10 Attack > 4 hits Scouts FU: 65 HP, 1 Armor Spearmen FU: 3+1+15 Attack > 4 hits vs Sicilians: 3+1+10 Attack > 5 hits Castle Age: ------------------- Light Cavalry: 60 HP, 0 Armor Pikemen: 4+22 Attack > 3 hits vs Sicilians: 4+14.6 Attack > 4 hits Light Cavalry with Feudal Age Upgrades: 80 HP, 1 Armor Pikemen 4+1+22 Attack > 4 hits (but this goes down to 3 if the Light Cavalry doesn't have armor) vs Sicilians: 4+1+14.6 Attack > 5 hits Light Cavalry FU: 80 HP, 2 Armor Pikemen FU: 4+2+22 Attack > 4 hits (but this goes down to 3 if the Light Cavalry doesn't have armor) vs Sicilians: 4+2+14.6 Attack > 5 hits
Maths are hard(y) Spearmen / Pikemen / Halbs deal +15 / +22 / +32 vs cavalry. Sicilians' land military units (except siege) ignore 33% of those. However Bohemians' spearman-line deals 25% additional bonus damage. So, for "x" bonus damage: x > 1.25x (Bohemians) > 82.5x (Sicilians scouts against Bohemians spearmen). In other words, the Bohemians spear-line deals 12.375 / 18.15 / 26.40 (I guess 12 / 18 / 26) bonus damage on Sicilians scouts. TLDR; if my calculations are correct, the Sicilians bonus against Bohemians means the spearman-line deals - 3 / -4 / -6 bonus damage on Sicilians cavalry (compared to generic units)
In so many of your videos, you give the internet the tips needed to defeat an interesting opponent / strategy. But with Phosphoru, you basically sent him a bunch of free meals: everyone thought they had the secret to beat him but he was already several steps ahead, ready to counter the counter. Incredible player, what a legend.
The training time nerf on the wagons has to be nearly as important- losing 5 seconds on each means every 2 minutes he's ending up with four wagons instead of five ...
Y'know whatta been funny? If when T90 asked for stats and the editor was like 😂, if suddenly we'd heard "Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here" and we get a little section with SOTL explaining the numbers to us.
I guess the issue there is that scouts would target the vills. That means they have to be replaced, which is not easy when Phosphoru's strategy doesn't have anyone collecting food. Still, with the repairs, you would probably save enough wood and gold to be able to move some vills around and make it work. I'll leave it to the competent players to find the exact formula.
It would be micro and attention intensive, but I feel like the optimum strategy for the scout player would be to have a hunting pack of scouts in the middle of the map. You want to pick off wagons alone using your speed.
If you think about it, the Sicilian farm bonus is more of a wood bonus than a food bonus. You don't really get any more food per minute, you just spend less wood per food.
depends what resource you are looking for. in this case wood is just a means to get food, so wood savings lead to a bigger farm count and therefore more food. if you want wood (archers) then food is just there to get more wood (by vil count), so it is a wood bonus then. works for every resource you need so everything except stone (unless you go uu of course).
Happy New Year T90! I am one of those people you always talk about. Played this game obsessively when it came out (1998-2000) and then moved on. We had build orders and hot keys back then, but the game was a lot simpler - and I was near the top of the ladder a few times. Just started playing again in November 2023 and found your content. It is much harder now, I am average at best (in T90 speak I am more LEL than MEM). Thanks for helping keeping this game alive! I will keep watching.
I'm glad people like this, Hoang for the best example, exist to shake things up. Random civ play is a good meta for the competitive scene but having a place for the unique players keeps things fresh and encourages the meta to not get too stale
First of all, thanks T90 for the video, it is great, both the concept and the execution ! So, as the goal was to theory craft, what can be done by both players to improve their chance of winning? For the all in player (here bohemian), i think the most important think is computing precisely the number of villager you need to constantly produce the unique unit (here waggon). Have one villager one farm and trickle produce villager. That way you can slowly converge toward the optimal number and get out of the "all in" state. Also being mindfull about not trickling down renforcement (which phosphoru did pretty well). For the defending player I think there is a lot to do (even though it is obviously hard since you are under pressure) : - finish destroying the market (not a big deal in general, because it is map dependent, and also the waggon not costing food means you are a nuisance but not fully blocking the other player. but still a big nuisance it can be) - cut of renforcement (having 5-8 scouts patrolling in the middle, so that it is hard to send down the new waggons) - vill fight more (given the fact that you lost with more villager at the end, i think that there is a point where sacrificing villagers would have been worth it) - be patient, accept losses and counter attack (as long as you win time, at some point the "all in" player have to switch gold, then you can strike, because the castle does not defend anymore) - I am not sure dungeons were the way to go, they did little damages, and in total did cost a lot. It is maybe possible to use said ressources to go up to castle and make knights/siege ? I feel like the purpose of tower defense is "my vill are less efficient that if i would send them in vill fight, but in exchange they are safer". Again i am not sure the goal here is to save ten vills. I feel like the goal is more "how can I stop the all in from killing me"/"how can i stop them from having a critical amount of waggons"? - maybe run with the eco and spread it (to counter the fact that the waggons have to stay in a big ball to avoid getting picked up), - maybe use the fact that he abuses the market (for example he sold stone, so if you go to castle age you can buy a castle, but it not like conq or janissary all in, the all in player is not that dependent on the market here). None of the "solutions" for the defending player seems great, but i feel like the game was pretty close (again looking at the ressources, if the all in is stopped at any time it is game over). Anyway if some of you have better suggestions i'd like to hear them.
Wagons damage output is insane. Historically, they were supposed to be defensive barricades for people. Devs could reshape them as a low based attack units, gaining attack by garrisoning vills inside. This would prevent low eco strats to go out of hand. Maybe pikes could be garrisoned too as during the 30 years' war a lot of villagers were turned into soldiers by simply giving them a pike
Phosphoru, wherever you are in the world right now, you and youpuddings crazy strats have reignited my passion for aoe2. The over the top all in strats you guys have created are so intriguing and sick to watch, love your work.
So, the main things I think that would've changed the result of this match: 1: Mill to farm eco in the corner of the map early - Have like 8-10 vills just on a mill in the corner of the map away from your base. 2: FIRST engagement, go all-in with your entire vill count to kill wagons. - We know they deal bonus damage to them, and it would've completely destroyed that first wave, which would've then left you with plenty of time to mass scouts. I know that actually fighting with vills is both not something you normally do, and is something that's difficult due to the required micro, but it would've completely changed the flow of the match. - This is something that's a fairly regular strategy in other strategy games where early rushes are a normal strategy - Fight back with your eco because all you really have to do is just survive the first wave, and almost regardless of losses, you'll probably win - Half the time your opponent might even resign instantly since their entire strat was just to rush you, and now their economy is going to be worse.
Love this guys mindset with the elo points. I get annoyed if i drop 100 elo points and ik it is stupid. I am getting better, but i think that is because i am comfortable with my elo and i beleive it am at my max elo till i do another dive on how to improve
Surpsied he doesnt use the Poles. Extra gold when mining stone for the castle so more vills elsewhere and also it only takes 11-13 obuch to take out a full garry TC and They counter any feudal age unit1
Im just under 600 and I do this strat as well - I don't do what he does...I also use seige...pretty sick against people at my level :). The best strat to beat this is Celts (maganols) - Seige eat Wagons I am the OddKing on AOE II btw :)
Just ran a few tests with unupgraded versions of the ram and wagon, even coming in from a distance on a 4v4 the rams were able to beat the wagons. I'd be interested to see this played out in a game, I don't think I'm good enough to try to build an effective scenario or go in on a wagon vs ram war.
I wonder if the following civs could work: Cumans - extra tc means safer and more vils, they have faster mounted units to catch the Hussite Wagons, stables are cheaper, so the first first wave of cav could get their earlier, they also have battering rams in feudal age, which could be a good meat shield against the Wagons. Stronger Pallisades for walling out the wagons Magyars - free forging, and cheaper scouts, since you are building 99% scouts it becomes something like a 10 % food gathering bonus Slavs - could be good because of their farming bonus Aztecs - better farmers, eagle scouts could be better with their high pierce armor and lack of bonus damage from spears. They are also created faster
Seems completely fair to me that u try to hang on as long as possible. I don't tend to resign either until I'm absolutely certain there is no way back into it for me. I have won enough insane comebacks where others would have resigned to be stubborn on it, but I will still call the gg when I do realise it's inevitable
Feel like spreading out a lot farms to each corner you would benefit from the mobility of the scouts A lot more and it would be more difficult to mass the wagons. As soon villagers go idle from the combat or just before sneak them to the corners and build town centers.
Was going to say I'd love to see another update after the nerf, but just reached the part where you said that Phospohru's not playing Bohemians anymore
So he made pikes after upgrading his strat,now there is no flaws... The only nerf against this i'd suggest is adding +10 bonus damage for knights(cause of castle age price) vs wagons specifically and +5 bonus damage for scouts vs wagons,thats the only thing that makes sense math wise and even the old buff could return but as long as this bonus damage would persist against wagons they'd be destructible and if you'd wanna remove them from meta you could also double their wood cost besides the bonus damage
It would be very ahistorical for knights to do bonus to wagons, vozová hradba were literally the crux of the Papal/Imperial heavy cavalry during the Hussite wars.
@@colbunkmustit is really ahistorical (and kinda ironic) that these wagons move at all and fire at the same time, seeing how they were makeshift barricades that Hussites abused the shit out of and since they can move(quite fast I might add) and they have absurd pierce armor, anything else except Scouts falls off Siege is too slow to get out, Monks just die, Infantry is waaaaay too slow to both get out and catch up, Archers and Towers are useless, only option left is Cav which should be the main thing getting countered by the Wagon funny
@@The-jy3yq The H-wagons have already been nerfed since this game was recorded, and the short range means siege counters them pretty well, especially since they have less HP now and require longer training time making them harder to mass, which is their whole strength in early castle. Also, I'm not really sure they are that fast, and they can't move and fire at the same time. Plus you could make the same criticism for a bunch of other units in this game in terms of how they function to how they were actually used in real life, you can't move and shoot scorpions or mangonels like in game, nor is the Korean unique unit an accurate depiction of a Hwacha, despite the war wagon supposedly being what it is suppose to represent. Adding making them weak to cav, especially knights would defeat their whole historical inspiration. If anything, reducing their speed slightly would be a better solution than giving bonus damage for knights.
Can anyone tell me the difference between a Hussite wagon and an organ gun? To me they look identical in gameplay. I'm looking for an aspect/situation at which the wagon significantly better than an organ gun and one at which the organ gun is better.
yeah since he pushed it to 23 up, i think fast archers with basically any civ should break the strat apart. forces him to towers so castle is late, or he has to abandon the wagon idea and go archery range. or he just dies, but i would bet he goes towers.
Earth can be found under "Real World" Category in the map selector (upper right corner) And smallest maps and wood maps are searchable in the mods section of the game. "Forest nothing" is what you are probaply searching for.
Donjon on the gold early to deny him or a donjon later to take down the market may have been the deciding factor... still that's the benefit of hindsight.
T90 complaining about how Wagons are so strong when he is fighting a castle age 170 resources unique unit with a feudal age trash unit never ceases to amaze me lol
Loving your videos do you have "thanks" for videos or channel membership? Btw DarkElf is still playing and has over 6k games :D love that guy the commitment is insane!
I watch alot, but don't play so my idea might be crap. Would the civ where you get two TC in fuedel work? Maybe have the second TC somewhere else? So you have to areas he needs to attack than one?
I Wonder how this game would have went when T90 destroyed the Market in the first place. Than you can keep the pressure in his base and farm without bring raided
all the time I see this strat i'm just wondering *Why don't you take 10 vills, and sneak them on a woodline with no one around, and just farm in peace*. I mean, he doesent have a scout, he cannot look around cause he doesnt have the time nor the energy to do it, so why not ?
Wonder what would've happened if you did take that market down.... Gives a little breathing space while he has to take vils of gold to build a new one, right?
You gotta decentralize your base and farms in this situation. Sure Khmer would help with that, but you built 3 mills around a massive clump of farms when you should've built those 3 mills in 3 different corners of the map after he killed your TC. Also, don't build 2nd TC right near where the 1st was. Run vills far out and make him chase with those sloooow wagons. By the time he nails your next TC and discovers 2/3 of the new farming spots, you'll have enough scouts to pick off his 'scouting' wagons. If you keep your base consolidated, he can keep his army consolidated, which is his main strength. The more you spread out the better in these. And for pete's sake, kill the market.
I think that the greatest reward for Phosphoru was the nerf because it acknowledged the quality of his strat.
and the impetus to innovate again
"He can't keep getting away with this!" -as he continues to get away with it.
Basically Sicilians allow you to take 1 additional hit from spear- or pikemen at almost all points in the game if you're on similar upgrades with your opponent.
Feudal Age:
-------------------
Scouts: 45 HP, 0 Armor
Spearmen: 3+15 Attack > 3 hit scouts
vs Sicilians (-33% bonus damage): 3+10 Attack > 4 hits
Scouts FU: 65 HP, 1 Armor
Spearmen FU: 3+1+15 Attack > 4 hits
vs Sicilians: 3+1+10 Attack > 5 hits
Castle Age:
-------------------
Light Cavalry: 60 HP, 0 Armor
Pikemen: 4+22 Attack > 3 hits
vs Sicilians: 4+14.6 Attack > 4 hits
Light Cavalry with Feudal Age Upgrades: 80 HP, 1 Armor
Pikemen 4+1+22 Attack > 4 hits (but this goes down to 3 if the Light Cavalry doesn't have armor)
vs Sicilians: 4+1+14.6 Attack > 5 hits
Light Cavalry FU: 80 HP, 2 Armor
Pikemen FU: 4+2+22 Attack > 4 hits (but this goes down to 3 if the Light Cavalry doesn't have armor)
vs Sicilians: 4+2+14.6 Attack > 5 hits
u really want that heart, do you?
You forgot about the bohemians +25%bonus.
Well done, thanks for the numbers
*Me asking ChatGPT*
Nice work!!!
Maths are hard(y)
Spearmen / Pikemen / Halbs deal +15 / +22 / +32 vs cavalry.
Sicilians' land military units (except siege) ignore 33% of those.
However Bohemians' spearman-line deals 25% additional bonus damage.
So, for "x" bonus damage:
x > 1.25x (Bohemians) > 82.5x (Sicilians scouts against Bohemians spearmen).
In other words, the Bohemians spear-line deals 12.375 / 18.15 / 26.40 (I guess 12 / 18 / 26) bonus damage on Sicilians scouts.
TLDR; if my calculations are correct, the Sicilians bonus against Bohemians means the spearman-line deals - 3 / -4 / -6 bonus damage on Sicilians cavalry (compared to generic units)
In so many of your videos, you give the internet the tips needed to defeat an interesting opponent / strategy. But with Phosphoru, you basically sent him a bunch of free meals: everyone thought they had the secret to beat him but he was already several steps ahead, ready to counter the counter. Incredible player, what a legend.
The training time nerf on the wagons has to be nearly as important- losing 5 seconds on each means every 2 minutes he's ending up with four wagons instead of five ...
Sassy Hardy 😂 Love it
Y'know whatta been funny? If when T90 asked for stats and the editor was like 😂, if suddenly we'd heard "Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here" and we get a little section with SOTL explaining the numbers to us.
If this guy played chess he'd spend all his time learning and developing opening traps.
I think Phosphoru should send a single vill with his attack to both repair units and also steal farms to delete them.
Now that's a high APM play
That's freaking evil, I love it
I guess the issue there is that scouts would target the vills. That means they have to be replaced, which is not easy when Phosphoru's strategy doesn't have anyone collecting food. Still, with the repairs, you would probably save enough wood and gold to be able to move some vills around and make it work. I'll leave it to the competent players to find the exact formula.
It would be micro and attention intensive, but I feel like the optimum strategy for the scout player would be to have a hunting pack of scouts in the middle of the map. You want to pick off wagons alone using your speed.
If you think about it, the Sicilian farm bonus is more of a wood bonus than a food bonus.
You don't really get any more food per minute, you just spend less wood per food.
depends what resource you are looking for. in this case wood is just a means to get food, so wood savings lead to a bigger farm count and therefore more food.
if you want wood (archers) then food is just there to get more wood (by vil count), so it is a wood bonus then.
works for every resource you need so everything except stone (unless you go uu of course).
Watching the Phosphoru playlist and this is a proper narrative. Well done to all involved
Happy New Year T90! I am one of those people you always talk about. Played this game obsessively when it came out (1998-2000) and then moved on. We had build orders and hot keys back then, but the game was a lot simpler - and I was near the top of the ladder a few times.
Just started playing again in November 2023 and found your content. It is much harder now, I am average at best (in T90 speak I am more LEL than MEM). Thanks for helping keeping this game alive! I will keep watching.
I'm glad people like this, Hoang for the best example, exist to shake things up. Random civ play is a good meta for the competitive scene but having a place for the unique players keeps things fresh and encourages the meta to not get too stale
First of all, thanks T90 for the video, it is great, both the concept and the execution !
So, as the goal was to theory craft, what can be done by both players to improve their chance of winning?
For the all in player (here bohemian), i think the most important think is computing precisely the number of villager you need to constantly produce the unique unit (here waggon). Have one villager one farm and trickle produce villager. That way you can slowly converge toward the optimal number and get out of the "all in" state. Also being mindfull about not trickling down renforcement (which phosphoru did pretty well).
For the defending player I think there is a lot to do (even though it is obviously hard since you are under pressure) :
- finish destroying the market (not a big deal in general, because it is map dependent, and also the waggon not costing food means you are a nuisance but not fully blocking the other player. but still a big nuisance it can be)
- cut of renforcement (having 5-8 scouts patrolling in the middle, so that it is hard to send down the new waggons)
- vill fight more (given the fact that you lost with more villager at the end, i think that there is a point where sacrificing villagers would have been worth it)
- be patient, accept losses and counter attack (as long as you win time, at some point the "all in" player have to switch gold, then you can strike, because the castle does not defend anymore)
- I am not sure dungeons were the way to go, they did little damages, and in total did cost a lot. It is maybe possible to use said ressources to go up to castle and make knights/siege ? I feel like the purpose of tower defense is "my vill are less efficient that if i would send them in vill fight, but in exchange they are safer". Again i am not sure the goal here is to save ten vills. I feel like the goal is more "how can I stop the all in from killing me"/"how can i stop them from having a critical amount of waggons"?
- maybe run with the eco and spread it (to counter the fact that the waggons have to stay in a big ball to avoid getting picked up),
- maybe use the fact that he abuses the market (for example he sold stone, so if you go to castle age you can buy a castle, but it not like conq or janissary all in, the all in player is not that dependent on the market here).
None of the "solutions" for the defending player seems great, but i feel like the game was pretty close (again looking at the ressources, if the all in is stopped at any time it is game over).
Anyway if some of you have better suggestions i'd like to hear them.
Wagons damage output is insane. Historically, they were supposed to be defensive barricades for people. Devs could reshape them as a low based attack units, gaining attack by garrisoning vills inside. This would prevent low eco strats to go out of hand. Maybe pikes could be garrisoned too as during the 30 years' war a lot of villagers were turned into soldiers by simply giving them a pike
The fact that he's absolutely OK with his ELO plummeting is a testament to how cool Phosphoru is. Truly a Legend.
Phosphoru, wherever you are in the world right now, you and youpuddings crazy strats have reignited my passion for aoe2. The over the top all in strats you guys have created are so intriguing and sick to watch, love your work.
- Any time you can get a rule changed/made because of you, you've made your mark, for good or ill. 😂
T90: "Maybe Hardy can do the math"...
Hardy: "Yeah right, like I have any clue" 😆
The legend returns
So, the main things I think that would've changed the result of this match: 1: Mill to farm eco in the corner of the map early - Have like 8-10 vills just on a mill in the corner of the map away from your base. 2: FIRST engagement, go all-in with your entire vill count to kill wagons. - We know they deal bonus damage to them, and it would've completely destroyed that first wave, which would've then left you with plenty of time to mass scouts. I know that actually fighting with vills is both not something you normally do, and is something that's difficult due to the required micro, but it would've completely changed the flow of the match. - This is something that's a fairly regular strategy in other strategy games where early rushes are a normal strategy - Fight back with your eco because all you really have to do is just survive the first wave, and almost regardless of losses, you'll probably win - Half the time your opponent might even resign instantly since their entire strat was just to rush you, and now their economy is going to be worse.
Thanks for the video. Just super cool you try to test your theory against this strat. Really like this kind of videos.
I'm doing the math, but it might take sometime.
26:52 - T90 getting distracted
Great content, I am starting the new year with a new addiction, love you videos!
Love this guys mindset with the elo points. I get annoyed if i drop 100 elo points and ik it is stupid. I am getting better, but i think that is because i am comfortable with my elo and i beleive it am at my max elo till i do another dive on how to improve
this game needs more players like Phosphoru, I love seeing gimmicky stuff that poses a real challenge to the meta.
Amazing. Good job T90 and good job Red Phosphoru!!
Phosphoru confirmed for Titans League Silver S3?
thanks for the upload. wasnt expecting this outcome
FINALLY A PHOSPHORU UPDATE! this new meta was DRIVING my soul
Happy holidays T90! I don't even have the time to play ranked AoE but your vids keep the hype running!
More LEL V T90 Please!!! Epic GG's
A true chaotic neutral player. Respect.
Im going to like this video solely because of the mind games. 😂
Your content is always awesome. Much love.
I think when hera fought this strategy, he ignored the initial attack and just focused on killing the vills
I really liked the intro, great setup for the game 👌🏻
Surpsied he doesnt use the Poles. Extra gold when mining stone for the castle so more vills elsewhere and also it only takes 11-13 obuch to take out a full garry TC and They counter any feudal age unit1
also faster food from mill
Im just under 600 and I do this strat as well - I don't do what he does...I also use seige...pretty sick against people at my level :).
The best strat to beat this is Celts (maganols) - Seige eat Wagons
I am the OddKing on AOE II btw :)
Just ran a few tests with unupgraded versions of the ram and wagon, even coming in from a distance on a 4v4 the rams were able to beat the wagons. I'd be interested to see this played out in a game, I don't think I'm good enough to try to build an effective scenario or go in on a wagon vs ram war.
I wonder if the following civs could work:
Cumans - extra tc means safer and more vils, they have faster mounted units to catch the Hussite Wagons, stables are cheaper, so the first first wave of cav could get their earlier, they also have battering rams in feudal age, which could be a good meat shield against the Wagons. Stronger Pallisades for walling out the wagons
Magyars - free forging, and cheaper scouts, since you are building 99% scouts it becomes something like a 10 % food gathering bonus
Slavs - could be good because of their farming bonus
Aztecs - better farmers, eagle scouts could be better with their high pierce armor and lack of bonus damage from spears. They are also created faster
congrats on hitting 2400 elo T90. Thx fot the video
Always nice to see these strats
4:25 Ah, Hardy, you are amazing :D :D :D
Red Phosphorus should be paid for his testing
Maybe instead of attacking reinforcement if you could attack the gold. Might have distracted him.
Seems completely fair to me that u try to hang on as long as possible. I don't tend to resign either until I'm absolutely certain there is no way back into it for me. I have won enough insane comebacks where others would have resigned to be stubborn on it, but I will still call the gg when I do realise it's inevitable
salute to phosphoru... great person!
Feel like spreading out a lot farms to each corner you would benefit from the mobility of the scouts A lot more and it would be more difficult to mass the wagons. As soon villagers go idle from the combat or just before sneak them to the corners and build town centers.
Was going to say I'd love to see another update after the nerf, but just reached the part where you said that Phospohru's not playing Bohemians anymore
Happy Easter T90
So he made pikes after upgrading his strat,now there is no flaws...
The only nerf against this i'd suggest is adding +10 bonus damage for knights(cause of castle age price) vs wagons specifically and +5 bonus damage for scouts vs wagons,thats the only thing that makes sense math wise and even the old buff could return but as long as this bonus damage would persist against wagons they'd be destructible and if you'd wanna remove them from meta you could also double their wood cost besides the bonus damage
It would be very ahistorical for knights to do bonus to wagons, vozová hradba were literally the crux of the Papal/Imperial heavy cavalry during the Hussite wars.
@@colbunkmustit is really ahistorical (and kinda ironic) that these wagons move at all and fire at the same time, seeing how they were makeshift barricades that Hussites abused the shit out of
and since they can move(quite fast I might add) and they have absurd pierce armor, anything else except Scouts falls off
Siege is too slow to get out, Monks just die, Infantry is waaaaay too slow to both get out and catch up, Archers and Towers are useless, only option left is Cav
which should be the main thing getting countered by the Wagon
funny
@@The-jy3yq The H-wagons have already been nerfed since this game was recorded, and the short range means siege counters them pretty well, especially since they have less HP now and require longer training time making them harder to mass, which is their whole strength in early castle. Also, I'm not really sure they are that fast, and they can't move and fire at the same time. Plus you could make the same criticism for a bunch of other units in this game in terms of how they function to how they were actually used in real life, you can't move and shoot scorpions or mangonels like in game, nor is the Korean unique unit an accurate depiction of a Hwacha, despite the war wagon supposedly being what it is suppose to represent. Adding making them weak to cav, especially knights would defeat their whole historical inspiration. If anything, reducing their speed slightly would be a better solution than giving bonus damage for knights.
Stubbed my toe, Can't math. Sorry Hardy.
Absolute legend!
This game looks fun but i think is scary
"Attacking is scary" - IsiT
iSIT!!!!!!!!!! We need more of him
great stuff T-90! :-)
Can anyone tell me the difference between a Hussite wagon and an organ gun? To me they look identical in gameplay. I'm looking for an aspect/situation at which the wagon significantly better than an organ gun and one at which the organ gun is better.
The wagons are a lot tankier
Wagons take waaaaay more punishment.
Red phosphorus is a real legend.
U forgot about roman scorpions in intro mate
He's doing Malians with gbeto for a while now and tried mongols with siege.
Gbetos in siege towers dude is having fun
Phosphu is a true blue gamer
So now we just go fast feudal agression up until the point where people doin this strat revert back to the original 20 pop uptime?
yeah since he pushed it to 23 up, i think fast archers with basically any civ should break the strat apart. forces him to towers so castle is late, or he has to abandon the wagon idea and go archery range. or he just dies, but i would bet he goes towers.
Gr8 cast
I just got AOE DE without rome dlc. Can anyone tell me how do I play these fancy maps like earth or only wood?
Earth can be found under "Real World" Category in the map selector (upper right corner)
And smallest maps and wood maps are searchable in the mods section of the game.
"Forest nothing" is what you are probaply searching for.
@@Kinoya-sama aha! I'll check it out, thanks!
he should have taken out your stables or forward a vil to build a siege workshop and repair the wagons
Donjon on the gold early to deny him or a donjon later to take down the market may have been the deciding factor... still that's the benefit of hindsight.
We need more of iSIT!!!
What does the "YT" mean in the video Thumbnail? Is it just for TH-cam?
What if you mix in a few skirms to take care of the spears?
T90 complaining about how Wagons are so strong when he is fighting a castle age 170 resources unique unit with a feudal age trash unit never ceases to amaze me lol
Loving your videos do you have "thanks" for videos or channel membership? Btw DarkElf is still playing and has over 6k games :D love that guy the commitment is insane!
I dont think all in scouts is totally dead, but it's def not a hard counter anymore.
I watch alot, but don't play so my idea might be crap. Would the civ where you get two TC in fuedel work? Maybe have the second TC somewhere else? So you have to areas he needs to attack than one?
Would monks work against war wagons? I’m quite uneducated on the matter tbh but just curious
can you convince him to make a youtube channel i want to watch more phosPogrus
Wish we could see how things would have gone if you kept knocking at his market.
And/or also - blacksmith upgrades for the scouts might have helped?
I Wonder how this game would have went when T90 destroyed the Market in the first place. Than you can keep the pressure in his base and farm without bring raided
probably stupid question but why not FC yourself and do a mangonnel defense?
What if you'd place a 2ndary TC way to the edge of the map, and he wouldn't catch you?
oh no, not again!
I'd say you'd have about tree fiddy more food as Khmer
Don't wagons take bonus DMG from vils?
Next time try it with slavs since they buffed their farming
all the time I see this strat i'm just wondering *Why don't you take 10 vills, and sneak them on a woodline with no one around, and just farm in peace*. I mean, he doesent have a scout, he cannot look around cause he doesnt have the time nor the energy to do it, so why not ?
Next time you get your TC down, you DOUCHE THE MARKET!
phosphoru is playing malians now, whats he doing?
I've been playing AI, and they keep resigning. How do I stop this ? Today the AI resigned and I was only on defence
Scouts and priests to heal?
This hurt to watch. Sorry T90
Why didn't you finish off the market?
Seems like the investment into Donjons was a mistake and sicilians are bad for this since they don't really have anything for them in feudal
have you tried persian douching him?
What about rams?
Wonder what would've happened if you did take that market down.... Gives a little breathing space while he has to take vils of gold to build a new one, right?
dam...... whats the counter? scorpions? monks?
Onager
theyre so clunky and slow... but i guess they can get multikills if he groups the wagons together@@myne00
war wagons are still too good, maybe nerf the basic unit more but keep elite as it is?
You gotta decentralize your base and farms in this situation. Sure Khmer would help with that, but you built 3 mills around a massive clump of farms when you should've built those 3 mills in 3 different corners of the map after he killed your TC. Also, don't build 2nd TC right near where the 1st was. Run vills far out and make him chase with those sloooow wagons. By the time he nails your next TC and discovers 2/3 of the new farming spots, you'll have enough scouts to pick off his 'scouting' wagons. If you keep your base consolidated, he can keep his army consolidated, which is his main strength.
The more you spread out the better in these. And for pete's sake, kill the market.
dudeee i almost forgot your channel exist, fot the past 2 month i cant see your upload on my subscription feeds or recomendation feeds