This kind of bike comparison of old vs new is going to become more valuable as more brands are releasing "refinements" vs a "total overhaul". As a consumer this kind of video helps either remind people a 2 year old bike is still very good and could help a truly revolutionary change stand out. I hope we see more videos like this.
The Eagle AXS felt really stupid since it had no performance benefits over mechanical Eagle but the new T-type is just better than everything else. Still have mechanical XT on most of my bikes but the newest one has GX T-type. Hoping for mechanical T-type (probably coming soon). One big thing with T-Type AXS vs anything else is the very stiff clutch that just isn't possible to have on mechanical drivetrains. Makes the bike so quiet.
I thought I’d be a ride or die mechanical, but I demoed a Transmission bike and really liked it. In my particular case I have a prior injury to my right wrist and would often feel my tendons pop and seize when pushing the chain up the cassette on mechanical. Electronic totally alleviated that, and for me it shifts plenty fast, so worth the trade offs personally. I think both options are valid and should remain available to suit different needs.
My old Tower with Cascade Link gives me the option of both bikes (nearly) with a quick flip of a chip. Love the shorter travel for playful trails but can be ready for rowdier trails in 2min.
I currently have the V3 and am considering the V4. I know the extra travel would be helpful here in Colorado (very chunky, rocky, and wild terrain), which is the main reason I’m leaning toward the V4. However, I also do a lot of climbing on steep, technical trails-that’s probably where I spend most of my time. I guess I just have to accept that I won’t be the first one up the hill!
Only jealous of the new v4 shock space. My v3 is a nightmare to clean on that super tight space and not so ease to clean the shock from dirt. For me that's the only downside of v3. Great video to explain how the small number changes translate in ride feel .!
The bane of my existence! Cleaning the shock stanchion on my V2 is so annoying, I'm so jealous of my switchblade owning friends... The gap under the lower link is also a pain to clean out.
Disclaimer: this is before I watch the video but I believe yes… SC is going further down the bulldozer route which is probably great for racing but I ride for fun and I love my 2023 tallboy for that. We’ll see what the video says! Thanks as always, Jeff! You rock!
Definitely prefer mechanical drivetrains over electric for the same reasons Jeff mentions. I constantly need to dump or up shift rapidly and Transmission just doesn’t do that yet. Both my SRAM XX1 and Shimano XTR Drivetrains smoke Electronic in the shifting speed department. When set up properly both are just as smooth as well. They are also lighter and cheaper. Kinda like MTB Unicorns. I do hope SRAM releases a cable operated Transmission drivetrain. It would be very hard to beat and extremely easy to keep it shifting perfectly. Electric drivetrains are an interesting option but shouldn’t be the only option.
Great video! I had SRAM XX Transmission for a year, but went back to Shimano XT recently, and definitely like it better. Quicker shifting is the biggest thing for me, and I don't miss charging batteries either.
How often are you charging the battery? I have GX transmission on my ripmo and I charge the battery about once a month. That's two to three rides a week, distance anywhere from 45 minutes to 4 hours. So a lot of variability
I charged it every 2-3 weeks or so. Battery life was good enough, it’s just nice not having to remember to do it. I probably charged more often than needed.
@@Chance.B I have a second battery. I keep it in my frame storage. You could also put it in any kind of a pack. I never worry about the battery. Every few rides I check it. If it flashes red, I swap it with the other one and charge the original one when I remember
I love my GX AXS electronic shifting. When it comes to brakes, I prefer Shimano. I also love my AXS wireless dropper post. The only thing I don't like about it is that 175mm is the longest dropper they make.
Lol I thought this was funny too! However, I recently moved from a salsa spearfish (130/100) to a switchblade (160/142) and I think the pivot is just as zippy pedaling so maybe that's what he's talking about? It just pedals well and can rip anywhere.
Sure is. Travel numbers aren't that relevant, geometry creates much more of a bike feel. And the Hightower 3 not only rides high in its travel, but it's a pretty short bike, so it feels similar to Ripley V5/Ripley AF/Tallboy/Following and other XC-ish bike. I don't care about XC race bikes, stuff like the Exie is fun but no one buys it for all around riding in my area.
I just got a Hightower 3. It seems like a great all around trail bike, though I’m not near as skilled and aggressive as you guys. You can get a good deal on a HT 3 right now, which is a bonus.
Running SRAM GX mechanical. I like the tactile feedback from the shifter. I can push the lever slowly, quickly, single gear, multiple gears. For me, "it ain't broke".
i picked up a Tower3 earlier this year ( 7 years newer than my old Focus Jam ) ... bloody hell what a difference ! I'm a trail rider mainly, some groomed, some are little more than goat tracks & rocks. For me the handling is the best thing about it - with the old bike we had a conversations about corners before they happened, you only need to think about them and it happens on the T3. I went the other way & put my old AXS on it, way easier on my arthritic thumbs with the short lever ( paddle ) throw. Mine also came with a 175mm dropper. Pretty bloody happy with it !
This was a fun video. Really interesting to see the back to back comparisons like that. Would love to see a Hightower vs. Bronson video with a similar format, the two new ones are pretty similar other than the wheels.
Given the current pricing of the old tower and the new tower, it was a no-brainer for me to get the old one. Glad I did, and I am super happy to hear that the old one would suit me better in Norcal (near Santa Cruz). I have been riding 3 times a week on the old tower since I got it, and I am loving it and looking forward to my next ride every day :)
I own a 5010 V4 and I am firm in my believe that it is still the best version of the 5010. Rockshox Reverb 200 insertion length is just short enough to make the short seat tube work for me. Tbh ride a Santacruz before buying and really measure twice if the seattube can work for you. Otherwise the Seatpost will stick out like a sore thumb.
I like that wireless drivetrains exist. When I got back into mtb in 2014 I was shocked that it didn't already exist. That being said, Shimano mechanical is far and away my favorite to ride, (Usually a mix of SLX and XT.) I do tend to use Wolf Tooth, Absolute Black or Garbaruk chainrings, along with Garbaruk cassettes, and I have grown to be a fan of Magura brakes. But the shifter, RD, and cranks are gonna be SLX or XT. Same thing on road/gravel. GRX and XT mix.
Great video and review Jeff and Logan. Nice to see an old vs new with HONEST opinions. By the way there were so many “That’s what she said” moments in this video. 😂
Thanks Stu. Both bikes are great, but they are very different. So I thought this would be a great case for a old vs new vid. And we are FAR too mature for that's what she saids... and we are absolutely never sarcastic! LOL!
XT is my preference. 11spd hyperglide or 12spd hyperglide + is fantastic. Only included 11spd because I had so much luck with it before moving to 12spd.
I completely understand the drivetrain change to Shimano. I rode SLX/XT for a decade with zero issues before I got my HT3. Within the first 500 miles, my GX cassette had missing teeth and I’m lucky I haven’t had any injuries after the random ghost shifting (setup verified multiple times by my LBS). I will try upgrading to x01 to see if that helps but really wish SC offered a Shimano trim on the Hightower.
Old man blue rider along the front range…..I’m thinking old tower would be the better choice for me, especially given the sweet deals right now…..as always highly entertaining video, wish I had skills like that!
I love mechanical, but I feel like I'm inevitably going to have to switch to electronic transmission at least for my e-bike because of how many chains I've already broken, including KMC E12 and SRAM XX1 chains. I would love to run Shimano, but I absolutely hate the lack of a derailleur cage retention pin, which makes rear wheel maintenance much more of a pain than it should be. As a result, I run SRAM GX or X01 mechanical on all my bikes.
Man, I don't even turn the clutch off half the time I remove a rear wheel! Just shove that derailleur outta the way! The retention pin is a non-issue for me personally.
I have never managed to break even a single chain in my life- there is something you must be doing wrong if it happens multiple times. Pretty sure I always had shimano stuff- but that shouldn't matter that much.
@@olik136my brother breaks his chain all the time and I can't figure it out, we ride similar bikes... His is lower end, so it has a different crank set... That's the only thing I can even guess could be the issue.
@@olik136 Same here. I've never broken a chain. In fact, I get years and years out of my SRAM XO chains. I don't know how people are breaking them frequently. I weigh 168 lb ready to ride, but I'm not that gentle with my bike.
Amazing videos sir, love the direct call outs on all products. I was going to buy a Santa Cruz Hightower but am thinking a giant trance x advance 1 with upgraded industry 9 wheels may be the better option.
Great comparison, I have been wondering which one is better V3 or V4. I ride a Hightower 2 Carbon C and its a great bike. The bike shop nearby has a Hightower 3 Carbon CC up for sale. Very tempted to upgrade that. Obviously with the 160/150 travel it rides better on the chunkier sections. As a Hightower rider, I would prefer the lighter bike as I can stay out in the trails longer. The Hightower 4 is slightly heavier, not sure how it will climb compare to the Hightower 3. Overall, both old and new are superb bikes to own.
Shimano does not sponser me but if I could always choose drivetrain and brakes, it would be shimano. (I did used to rock and love grip shift xrays 😂😂😂but if shimano had jumped into that type of shifter I would have bought theirs. Shimano XT anything has never disapointed me. I am totally with you on the cable drivetrains. Feel is so important and the electronic shift just can't be as fast as the input of your own analog body movements.......yet. I've been biking since 1991 and the tech has always been tough to keep up. Major tech changes with electronics and batteries is a world I don't want on my trail bike. I just wonder how long it would take to adapt my reflexes to an electroinc shift. THe battery stuff is what sounds awful to me for some reason. I remember seeing matt jones on one of his episodes have major issues with his bike in south america thouasand of miles away from any batteries. Anyway. Greeat video as always.
I have two bikes that I ride interchangeably. One is a mechanical XO, and the other is electronic GX transmission. I have no problem switching back and forth. I see pros and cons of both. Overall, I prefer the electronic shifting.
The Hightower has PLENTY more space, it's just that for an OEM, it's a ton easier to uise one post that will work with a lot of different riders, hence the 150mm choice. It's only $200 to get a PNW loam/One Up post.
If you could do the same style video on the Bronson that would be cool to see. You gave the V4 a glowing overview almost enough to convince me to ditch my V3..now there's a V5 in the mix!
I still love my Bronson V3. Rented a V4 once and it felt less poppy and quick in turns. V4 is probably faster in the chunk but made me realize my V3 is more fun for my riding. Plus still love 27.5 wheels.
Great vid as I am currently looking for a new trail bike. Wondering what you would recommend. I am in the northeast and I ride blues and single blacks mainly occasionally going to a bike park. Thanks.
as you are a shimano sponsored rider who regularly recommends their products: I am on my second m9101 xtr cassette where the rivets holding the three aluminum cogs creak starting at very early miles. have you experienced this and is there a fix?
Are plans still in the works to test the HT3 with a cascade link and 160mm fork? Curious how those updates would make the HT3 feel compared to the HT4!
3:40 definitely mechanical drivetrain. I wouldn't want an electronic one, mainly because I don't want to think about another piece of equipment that needs to be charged before use. I want to be able to grab my bike and go for a ride whenever I want, no matter how long it had been sitting around.
@@danm5810 I don't need a battery for that. When I grab my bike, there's a manual pump with an analog gauge right there. I am not good enough to notice the difference between 25 or 26 psi to warrant an electronic gauge. And even then, those take CR2023 batteries. Quick swap, no need to wait for an hour until an AXS battery is charged.
@@BruceOnBikes fair enough. I just see lots of comments from people haven’t tried Axs before commenting some who probably have e-bikes, phones or other digital equipment. I charge the battery once a month takes 15mins to top up.
Definitely agree on the mechanical drivetrain! I've tried transmission, and you just have better feel and control with mechanical. No batteries and no app is pretty big too.
Love this comparison. Jeff being from Santa Cruz, which do you find better for Santa Cruz Mountains? PS: I'd love a shootout between the New-Tower and the Megatower
I run Shimano chain and cassette with GX derailleur and shifter (like GX better than XO1 shifters). I like the Shimano shifting and that it's more stable when dirty or slightly out of tune and the softer quicker feel of he SRAM shifter ... but most of all I like that I didn't have to buy all new shifter and derailleurs for my bikes when I found that Shimano shifts better while SRAM gets horrible when it ages.
And I do the exact opposite. Gx-xo1 cassette with an xo1-xx1 chain with shimano xt mech and shifter. I like the durability of the sram chain and the ease of use of sram cassettes, along with the crisp shifting of xt with the multi shift in both directions. Just got a t-type gx system on a new bike I bought and I’m definitely swapping back to a mechanical system.
Nice vid and thanks for the review. IMO, the higher FPS seems to reduce the visual impact of your riding footage. In your other (30 FPS?) videos your jumps and sick tricks look more impressive, even though objectively they always are. Does that make sense?
Thanks Ransom. I normally use 24 FPS for a little bit of motion blur, as that's what the human eye normally sees. But I've found 60 FPS to look really neat, and the video quality looks higher despite being at a lower bitrate, so the files are smaller and easier to store. Furthermore, I notice that TH-cam gives a higher quality compression codec to 4k60fps, so I've done more of that recently.
Great Q! New Ripmo feels between them, slightly more towards the new tower, but it depends on your sizing. At 5’8” I’m fairly between the two Ibis sizes (m and XM) but fit SC’s medium quite well.
Thanks, great to hear! I am 1.73m. I‘m coming from a 5010 but after trying an oldtower and feeling absolutely at home i want to ditch MX wheels. Now i‘m only deciding if i want to go on a bigger bike one last time before i get old 😂
Do you think putting 160mm fork and cascade link with more rear travel will make the V3 feel similar to the new V4? Will spending very little on upgrades be just as good as spending thousands on a new bike?
No, I think the much longer front end of the V4 will always feel different. The suspension differences aren't nearly as noticeable as geometry changes, and the V4 is a whole new bike.
By the time you put longer fork that will increase wheelbase and add cascade link that adds another 5mm the V4 will be only 10mm longer that V3. Head angle will be the same and BB almost identical.
I enjoyed the comparison, but I don’t think the breakover angle explanation for pedal strikes works. Assuming medium frames in the low setting, 170mm cranks, and PNW Loam pedals, the HT3 has an unsagged ground clearance of 158mm with a pedal at 6 o'clock vs the HT4’s 161mm. The HT3 has a 1218mm wheelbase, giving it a breakover angle of 29.09º (2*atan(2∗GC/WB)). The HT4 has a wheelbase of 1237mm, giving it a breakover angle of 29.18º.
Interesting, tho I won’t pretend like I’m checking your math! Long bikes always feel like they catch more pedals to me tho. Remember the new bike has more travel, and with a more open feel, gets into it a bit easier. Anyhow, I definitely whacked my pedals more on the new bike vs the old.
@@JeffKendallWeed Yeah, I’m not saying you’re wrong about the pedal strikes - you’re the guy who’s ridden both the bikes and I’m the guy expecting an HT4 to arrive at my house well after the trails are snowed in. :) Just that the wheelbase difference doesn’t seem like it’d account for that. Shock tune, kinematics, or STA seem more plausible, but it’s such a dynamic phenomenon that I’m not sure how you’d model it.
I can only how you guys ride. Ill be riding green and blue all day. So scared of gaps😢 i just dont like air time although i was very agressive when i was young, very sporty, love snow boarding but now im pushing close to 50, my knees just keeps screaming pain everytime i do a little jump😢
questioning if your actually from santa cruz considering that i dont know anyone that lives around there who would describe the SC trails as more "mellow" lol
Santa Cruz CC frames for 2025 are electronic only, i.e. w/no mechanical shift ports. (Same is true for the new carbon SJ 15 frames from Morgan Hill) This is a load of bollocks in my opinion. The new Tower it seems is just a 29" Bronson. I'll choose the old Tower w/XT mechanical every time.
For now. Only question is if they move both the 5010 and TB to be a 29/MX pair with the same travel, or keep them separated to cover more of the gap. Would make sense to bump TB to 130 and 5010 to 140, making room for a 120 Blur TR. That said, if you look at the new Ripley, change is not always for the better if the bike moves too far beyond the characteristics people love about it.
Although the H3 is not my favorite bike ever, the bike has allowed, maybe helped? me to become a better rider. Just gotta watch that pedal placement...
This kind of bike comparison of old vs new is going to become more valuable as more brands are releasing "refinements" vs a "total overhaul". As a consumer this kind of video helps either remind people a 2 year old bike is still very good and could help a truly revolutionary change stand out. I hope we see more videos like this.
This pretty much is a total overhaul tho. They are very different.
@@pebbleinspector ???
I just saved $2000 buying a '23 HighTower instead of getting the newest one. This video pretty much summed up my reasoning behind it.
I like the old vs new comparisons as older models can be had at some great deals when the new models drop. Would love a comparison of v2 vs v3 ripmo.
100% mechanical drivetrain!
I really hope Shimano sticks with a mechanical option, even if they jump on the electronic wagon
I don't want to have to worry about batteries on my mtb.
I have transmission and would prefer not to have batteries. However I have seen rumors of a transmission mechanical drivetrain, that could be cool!!
The Eagle AXS felt really stupid since it had no performance benefits over mechanical Eagle but the new T-type is just better than everything else. Still have mechanical XT on most of my bikes but the newest one has GX T-type. Hoping for mechanical T-type (probably coming soon). One big thing with T-Type AXS vs anything else is the very stiff clutch that just isn't possible to have on mechanical drivetrains. Makes the bike so quiet.
I thought I’d be a ride or die mechanical, but I demoed a Transmission bike and really liked it. In my particular case I have a prior injury to my right wrist and would often feel my tendons pop and seize when pushing the chain up the cassette on mechanical. Electronic totally alleviated that, and for me it shifts plenty fast, so worth the trade offs personally. I think both options are valid and should remain available to suit different needs.
My old Tower with Cascade Link gives me the option of both bikes (nearly) with a quick flip of a chip. Love the shorter travel for playful trails but can be ready for rowdier trails in 2min.
Hightower 3 with a 160mm fork is the sweet spot!
That's what I'm riding and I love it.
Going to give the 160mm spring a try with the 200 hrs service!
That's wqhat I'm riding. The geo is so close to the v4 geo.
I currently have the V3 and am considering the V4. I know the extra travel would be helpful here in Colorado (very chunky, rocky, and wild terrain), which is the main reason I’m leaning toward the V4. However, I also do a lot of climbing on steep, technical trails-that’s probably where I spend most of my time. I guess I just have to accept that I won’t be the first one up the hill!
Only jealous of the new v4 shock space. My v3 is a nightmare to clean on that super tight space and not so ease to clean the shock from dirt. For me that's the only downside of v3. Great video to explain how the small number changes translate in ride feel .!
The bane of my existence! Cleaning the shock stanchion on my V2 is so annoying, I'm so jealous of my switchblade owning friends... The gap under the lower link is also a pain to clean out.
Disclaimer: this is before I watch the video but I believe yes… SC is going further down the bulldozer route which is probably great for racing but I ride for fun and I love my 2023 tallboy for that. We’ll see what the video says! Thanks as always, Jeff! You rock!
That’s exactly what my friend, owner of a coil megatower felt when trying a air shocked megatower v2
Too much bike
Great idea for a comparison and like others said would love to see similar comparisons for other bikes in the future!
Love how you said "occasionally underbiked or occasionally overbiked". Genius. You just solved many Hightower lovers decision making.
Definitely prefer mechanical drivetrains over electric for the same reasons Jeff mentions. I constantly need to dump or up shift rapidly and Transmission just doesn’t do that yet. Both my SRAM XX1 and Shimano XTR Drivetrains smoke Electronic in the shifting speed department. When set up properly both are just as smooth as well. They are also lighter and cheaper. Kinda like MTB Unicorns. I do hope SRAM releases a cable operated Transmission drivetrain. It would be very hard to beat and extremely easy to keep it shifting perfectly. Electric drivetrains are an interesting option but shouldn’t be the only option.
I have the last year of the Gen 1. Totally pimped out. Love it. No complaints at all and it still get looks.
Great video! I had SRAM XX Transmission for a year, but went back to Shimano XT recently, and definitely like it better. Quicker shifting is the biggest thing for me, and I don't miss charging batteries either.
How often are you charging the battery? I have GX transmission on my ripmo and I charge the battery about once a month. That's two to three rides a week, distance anywhere from 45 minutes to 4 hours. So a lot of variability
I charged it every 2-3 weeks or so. Battery life was good enough, it’s just nice not having to remember to do it. I probably charged more often than needed.
@@Chance.B I have a second battery. I keep it in my frame storage. You could also put it in any kind of a pack. I never worry about the battery. Every few rides I check it. If it flashes red, I swap it with the other one and charge the original one when I remember
Great comparison. Love that you swap so many components to make it like-for-like. True testing 👍
What an excellent way to show off both bikes! Great review amazing riding guys 💯
I love my GX AXS electronic shifting. When it comes to brakes, I prefer Shimano. I also love my AXS wireless dropper post. The only thing I don't like about it is that 175mm is the longest dropper they make.
I run XT. It just always works. I’m not picky but I do like the 3up two down rapid shift
Thanks @JeffKendalWeed for having put some detail of your @Shimano configuration 😁👍
A similar style review for the old altitude vs the new one would be sick!
TIL that a 145/150 bike is "boarderline XC".
Haha I was scratching my head at that too
“Short travel” 🤔
Lol I thought this was funny too! However, I recently moved from a salsa spearfish (130/100) to a switchblade (160/142) and I think the pivot is just as zippy pedaling so maybe that's what he's talking about? It just pedals well and can rip anywhere.
Sure is. Travel numbers aren't that relevant, geometry creates much more of a bike feel. And the Hightower 3 not only rides high in its travel, but it's a pretty short bike, so it feels similar to Ripley V5/Ripley AF/Tallboy/Following and other XC-ish bike. I don't care about XC race bikes, stuff like the Exie is fun but no one buys it for all around riding in my area.
I just got a Hightower 3. It seems like a great all around trail bike, though I’m not near as skilled and aggressive as you guys. You can get a good deal on a HT 3 right now, which is a bonus.
Which one did you get and how much discount?
Running SRAM GX mechanical. I like the tactile feedback from the shifter. I can push the lever slowly, quickly, single gear, multiple gears. For me, "it ain't broke".
i picked up a Tower3 earlier this year ( 7 years newer than my old Focus Jam ) ... bloody hell what a difference ! I'm a trail rider mainly, some groomed, some are little more than goat tracks & rocks. For me the handling is the best thing about it - with the old bike we had a conversations about corners before they happened, you only need to think about them and it happens on the T3. I went the other way & put my old AXS on it, way easier on my arthritic thumbs with the short lever ( paddle ) throw. Mine also came with a 175mm dropper.
Pretty bloody happy with it !
Love your reviews. Hope you get to do one for the new Sentinel.
This was a fun video. Really interesting to see the back to back comparisons like that. Would love to see a Hightower vs. Bronson video with a similar format, the two new ones are pretty similar other than the wheels.
I wish I had access to the new Bronson! That would be a great vid!
Can't wait to see when you put a 160 air spring on the old Hightower along with the Cascade link to see how different it is from the new one
Given the current pricing of the old tower and the new tower, it was a no-brainer for me to get the old one. Glad I did, and I am super happy to hear that the old one would suit me better in Norcal (near Santa Cruz). I have been riding 3 times a week on the old tower since I got it, and I am loving it and looking forward to my next ride every day :)
I own a 5010 V4 and I am firm in my believe that it is still the best version of the 5010. Rockshox Reverb 200 insertion length is just short enough to make the short seat tube work for me. Tbh ride a Santacruz before buying and really measure twice if the seattube can work for you. Otherwise the Seatpost will stick out like a sore thumb.
I like that wireless drivetrains exist. When I got back into mtb in 2014 I was shocked that it didn't already exist. That being said, Shimano mechanical is far and away my favorite to ride, (Usually a mix of SLX and XT.) I do tend to use Wolf Tooth, Absolute Black or Garbaruk chainrings, along with Garbaruk cassettes, and I have grown to be a fan of Magura brakes. But the shifter, RD, and cranks are gonna be SLX or XT. Same thing on road/gravel. GRX and XT mix.
Great vid. This is the decision i’m trying to make right now. Great runout deals on the V3 at the moment.
Totally. But the V3 and V4 are so different, I think both are still very valid.
We need Jeff on the new Megatower and nomad
I want to see him ride an Atherton bike, he loves DW bikes.
Great video and review Jeff and Logan. Nice to see an old vs new with HONEST opinions.
By the way there were so many “That’s what she said” moments in this video. 😂
Thanks Stu. Both bikes are great, but they are very different. So I thought this would be a great case for a old vs new vid. And we are FAR too mature for that's what she saids... and we are absolutely never sarcastic! LOL!
XT is my preference. 11spd hyperglide or 12spd hyperglide + is fantastic. Only included 11spd because I had so much luck with it before moving to 12spd.
I completely understand the drivetrain change to Shimano. I rode SLX/XT for a decade with zero issues before I got my HT3. Within the first 500 miles, my GX cassette had missing teeth and I’m lucky I haven’t had any injuries after the random ghost shifting (setup verified multiple times by my LBS). I will try upgrading to x01 to see if that helps but really wish SC offered a Shimano trim on the Hightower.
V4.1 vs v5 Bronson needed for 20:44 sure. Would also like to see a background video on yourself, your skills and riding style are all time.
Thanks Martin! I just sold the 4.1 Bronson, but I agree, that would have been a great vid!
@ damn, v4 or v5 then? 🤔
Old man blue rider along the front range…..I’m thinking old tower would be the better choice for me, especially given the sweet deals right now…..as always highly entertaining video, wish I had skills like that!
I love mechanical, but I feel like I'm inevitably going to have to switch to electronic transmission at least for my e-bike because of how many chains I've already broken, including KMC E12 and SRAM XX1 chains. I would love to run Shimano, but I absolutely hate the lack of a derailleur cage retention pin, which makes rear wheel maintenance much more of a pain than it should be. As a result, I run SRAM GX or X01 mechanical on all my bikes.
Man, I don't even turn the clutch off half the time I remove a rear wheel! Just shove that derailleur outta the way! The retention pin is a non-issue for me personally.
I have never managed to break even a single chain in my life- there is something you must be doing wrong if it happens multiple times. Pretty sure I always had shimano stuff- but that shouldn't matter that much.
@@olik136my brother breaks his chain all the time and I can't figure it out, we ride similar bikes... His is lower end, so it has a different crank set... That's the only thing I can even guess could be the issue.
@@olik136 Same here. I've never broken a chain. In fact, I get years and years out of my SRAM XO chains. I don't know how people are breaking them frequently. I weigh 168 lb ready to ride, but I'm not that gentle with my bike.
Amazing videos sir, love the direct call outs on all products. I was going to buy a Santa Cruz Hightower but am thinking a giant trance x advance 1 with upgraded industry 9 wheels may be the better option.
What up Jeff!?!?! Another great vid!
Shimano XT all the way!
Best shifters and brakes.
I hope we will not be pushed into electric shifting by the bike industry in the future.
Do you have any thoughts on how the new Hightower compares to the Orbea Occam LT?? Super curious between those two bikes!
You should do one for the norco sight!
What backpack is that? Shimano? It looks legit.
Great comparison, I have been wondering which one is better V3 or V4. I ride a Hightower 2 Carbon C and its a great bike. The bike shop nearby has a Hightower 3 Carbon CC up for sale. Very tempted to upgrade that. Obviously with the 160/150 travel it rides better on the chunkier sections. As a Hightower rider, I would prefer the lighter bike as I can stay out in the trails longer. The Hightower 4 is slightly heavier, not sure how it will climb compare to the Hightower 3. Overall, both old and new are superb bikes to own.
Shimano does not sponser me but if I could always choose drivetrain and brakes, it would be shimano. (I did used to rock and love grip shift xrays 😂😂😂but if shimano had jumped into that type of shifter I would have bought theirs. Shimano XT anything has never disapointed me.
I am totally with you on the cable drivetrains. Feel is so important and the electronic shift just can't be as fast as the input of your own analog body movements.......yet. I've been biking since 1991 and the tech has always been tough to keep up. Major tech changes with electronics and batteries is a world I don't want on my trail bike. I just wonder how long it would take to adapt my reflexes to an electroinc shift. THe battery stuff is what sounds awful to me for some reason. I remember seeing matt jones on one of his episodes have major issues with his bike in south america thouasand of miles away from any batteries. Anyway. Greeat video as always.
I have two bikes that I ride interchangeably. One is a mechanical XO, and the other is electronic GX transmission. I have no problem switching back and forth. I see pros and cons of both. Overall, I prefer the electronic shifting.
Great video!! 150mm dropper is not ok on a trail bike. My 2024 size large switchblade still has 1" of space with a 240mm oneup dropper.
The Hightower has PLENTY more space, it's just that for an OEM, it's a ton easier to uise one post that will work with a lot of different riders, hence the 150mm choice. It's only $200 to get a PNW loam/One Up post.
If you could do the same style video on the Bronson that would be cool to see. You gave the V4 a glowing overview almost enough to convince me to ditch my V3..now there's a V5 in the mix!
I still love my Bronson V3. Rented a V4 once and it felt less poppy and quick in turns. V4 is probably faster in the chunk but made me realize my V3 is more fun for my riding. Plus still love 27.5 wheels.
Agree..Shimano XT FTW!
I don't know that iteration. When did the XT FTW come out?
Great vid as I am currently looking for a new trail bike. Wondering what you would recommend. I am in the northeast and I ride blues and single blacks mainly occasionally going to a bike park. Thanks.
I think I prefer the HT3, more fun
as you are a shimano sponsored rider who regularly recommends their products: I am on my second m9101 xtr cassette where the rivets holding the three aluminum cogs creak starting at very early miles. have you experienced this and is there a fix?
What would you say is a bike that surpasses the v3 with similar set up?
V3 with 160 fork is the best of all.
Agree!
Are plans still in the works to test the HT3 with a cascade link and 160mm fork? Curious how those updates would make the HT3 feel compared to the HT4!
I had plans, and have the link and a 160 fork, but SC needs the bike back. It’s ok, I’d rather test other new bikes that retrofit a past model.
@@JeffKendallWeed That's fair. More fun that way!
V4.1 Bronson vs v5 Bronson pls
3:40 definitely mechanical drivetrain. I wouldn't want an electronic one, mainly because I don't want to think about another piece of equipment that needs to be charged before use. I want to be able to grab my bike and go for a ride whenever I want, no matter how long it had been sitting around.
So you don’t check tyre pressures before a ride?
@@danm5810 I don't need a battery for that. When I grab my bike, there's a manual pump with an analog gauge right there.
I am not good enough to notice the difference between 25 or 26 psi to warrant an electronic gauge. And even then, those take CR2023 batteries. Quick swap, no need to wait for an hour until an AXS battery is charged.
@@BruceOnBikes fair enough. I just see lots of comments from people haven’t tried Axs before commenting some who probably have e-bikes, phones or other digital equipment. I charge the battery once a month takes 15mins to top up.
Definitely agree on the mechanical drivetrain! I've tried transmission, and you just have better feel and control with mechanical. No batteries and no app is pretty big too.
This makes me even more curious about your thoughts on a Trek Fuel Ex. I assume they are releasing a new generation next year too.
So in the long run, the new Hightower is great for the Northwest, while the old Hightower is great for everywhere else in the world.
Yes mechanical is the extra most bestest! I drive a manual in my truck so I can feel the shifts, I want the same from my bike.
Now Transition Sentinel v2 vs v3 please
Nice video, really useful ! Could we have the same between the Bronson V4/V4.1 and the new one ?? :)
Love this comparison. Jeff being from Santa Cruz, which do you find better for Santa Cruz Mountains? PS: I'd love a shootout between the New-Tower and the Megatower
Hey man, for SC area riding, I'd probably go for the old tower. But I don't like being overbiked for SC stuff.
I run Shimano chain and cassette with GX derailleur and shifter (like GX better than XO1 shifters). I like the Shimano shifting and that it's more stable when dirty or slightly out of tune and the softer quicker feel of he SRAM shifter ... but most of all I like that I didn't have to buy all new shifter and derailleurs for my bikes when I found that Shimano shifts better while SRAM gets horrible when it ages.
And I do the exact opposite. Gx-xo1 cassette with an xo1-xx1 chain with shimano xt mech and shifter. I like the durability of the sram chain and the ease of use of sram cassettes, along with the crisp shifting of xt with the multi shift in both directions. Just got a t-type gx system on a new bike I bought and I’m definitely swapping back to a mechanical system.
Nice vid and thanks for the review. IMO, the higher FPS seems to reduce the visual impact of your riding footage. In your other (30 FPS?) videos your jumps and sick tricks look more impressive, even though objectively they always are. Does that make sense?
Thanks Ransom. I normally use 24 FPS for a little bit of motion blur, as that's what the human eye normally sees. But I've found 60 FPS to look really neat, and the video quality looks higher despite being at a lower bitrate, so the files are smaller and easier to store. Furthermore, I notice that TH-cam gives a higher quality compression codec to 4k60fps, so I've done more of that recently.
Sentinel V3 review coming?
Awesome video!
Where does the new Ripmo sit in this round? Is it more like the Newtower?
Great Q! New Ripmo feels between them, slightly more towards the new tower, but it depends on your sizing. At 5’8” I’m fairly between the two Ibis sizes (m and XM) but fit SC’s medium quite well.
Thanks, great to hear! I am 1.73m. I‘m coming from a 5010 but after trying an oldtower and feeling absolutely at home i want to ditch MX wheels. Now i‘m only deciding if i want to go on a bigger bike one last time before i get old 😂
I’d love to see you test ride a Mega tower!
Do you think putting 160mm fork and cascade link with more rear travel will make the V3 feel similar to the new V4? Will spending very little on upgrades be just as good as spending thousands on a new bike?
No, I think the much longer front end of the V4 will always feel different. The suspension differences aren't nearly as noticeable as geometry changes, and the V4 is a whole new bike.
By the time you put longer fork that will increase wheelbase and add cascade link that adds another 5mm the V4 will be only 10mm longer that V3. Head angle will be the same and BB almost identical.
I enjoyed the comparison, but I don’t think the breakover angle explanation for pedal strikes works. Assuming medium frames in the low setting, 170mm cranks, and PNW Loam pedals, the HT3 has an unsagged ground clearance of 158mm with a pedal at 6 o'clock vs the HT4’s 161mm. The HT3 has a 1218mm wheelbase, giving it a breakover angle of 29.09º (2*atan(2∗GC/WB)). The HT4 has a wheelbase of 1237mm, giving it a breakover angle of 29.18º.
Interesting, tho I won’t pretend like I’m checking your math! Long bikes always feel like they catch more pedals to me tho. Remember the new bike has more travel, and with a more open feel, gets into it a bit easier. Anyhow, I definitely whacked my pedals more on the new bike vs the old.
@@JeffKendallWeed Yeah, I’m not saying you’re wrong about the pedal strikes - you’re the guy who’s ridden both the bikes and I’m the guy expecting an HT4 to arrive at my house well after the trails are snowed in. :) Just that the wheelbase difference doesn’t seem like it’d account for that. Shock tune, kinematics, or STA seem more plausible, but it’s such a dynamic phenomenon that I’m not sure how you’d model it.
You should try a megatower, it seems like a bike you'd like!
YT jeffsy and Propain Tyee maybe? thats great valuable bikes and your reviews are on top lvl quality.
I can only how you guys ride. Ill be riding green and blue all day. So scared of gaps😢 i just dont like air time although i was very agressive when i was young, very sporty, love snow boarding but now im pushing close to 50, my knees just keeps screaming pain everytime i do a little jump😢
On paper the Hightower 4 and Sentinel 3 are nearly identical. I’ll be curious to see how they stack up.
questioning if your actually from santa cruz considering that i dont know anyone that lives around there who would describe the SC trails as more "mellow" lol
Megatower next please!
Santa Cruz CC frames for 2025 are electronic only, i.e. w/no mechanical shift ports. (Same is true for the new carbon SJ 15 frames from Morgan Hill) This is a load of bollocks in my opinion. The new Tower it seems is just a 29" Bronson. I'll choose the old Tower w/XT mechanical every time.
I wanted a more poppy bike, so v3 for me!
Your ginger tabs stole the show.
I still have the OG Hightower. Great bike
It is so not fair how much dirt they have in the PNW 😭
“Let us know if you agree with us, or you’re wrong” haha
Glad you noticed that line!
Big gap between the new HT and the TB.
For now. Only question is if they move both the 5010 and TB to be a 29/MX pair with the same travel, or keep them separated to cover more of the gap. Would make sense to bump TB to 130 and 5010 to 140, making room for a 120 Blur TR. That said, if you look at the new Ripley, change is not always for the better if the bike moves too far beyond the characteristics people love about it.
If you have the V3, there is no need for the v4.
MECH4LYFE
Although the H3 is not my favorite bike ever, the bike has allowed, maybe helped? me to become a better rider. Just gotta watch that pedal placement...
Great vid.. 🙂👍
I didn't know mech shifting is faster. Another reason to never go wireless.
150mm XC bike😎
I hit Like for the cat 👍
Thanks! We love our kitties!
Shimano mechanical forever please, please industry don't mess this up.
Under biked is better.
I'm wrong
“Borderline XC” 😂
100% mechanical. Shimano XT. Cant understand why everyone gets so giddy about electronic shifting.
Agree!
Give me shimano xt hyperglide mechanical gears every day of the week.
Agreed!
He talks and xtr sells. You hearing that Shimano!?!
I want one so bad
They are great bikes! I'd enjoy either one in my fleet.