Is Handsome Jack Still Alive? Handsome Jackpot Ending Explained! (THEORY) - Borderlands 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ธ.ค. 2019
- (SPOILERS) After seeing the ending of DLC, Moxxi's Heist Of The Handsome Jackpot I have strong leads to think that Handsome Jack is STILL alive! How? I'll explain, so strap in because we're going on a trip to lore town!
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I WANT YOU TO BE RIGHT
Just gonna go ahead and say that...
It would make so much sense tbh; in my mind. As soon as I saw Timothy was coming back i had the idea that a double died in the vault - when really, he was elsewhere... planning revenge perhaps from a safe distance. He remained silent maybe because they beat his double; and he wanted to dig deeper into how to really make them pay. This could be his chance at last - and the dna injection allows for slip ups... at any rate, i love the idea - and i think it could work with the future antagonist idea. I dont think gearbox will do it; because they already read people didnt want him back, so maybe it is Tim and they just plan to have him off researching something...
The only other kink in the plan is that Jacks AI is supposed to activate on his death (or Nakayama says so in TPS) but, Rhys might have short circuited that by installing it directly into his port or something.
Idk, but overall - i love the idea and i really hope youre right ❤
NympheSama Thank you. Jack saw his fate in the vault at the end of TPS meaning he would never walk in there to die. He sent Timothy in as a red Herring, attaching his dead man switch to him whilst he watched safely from the Casino.
But you also got to remember in borderlands 2 your character had to kill the Double ganger to sound like Jack
@@31284moose this is true; but "Timothy" was just the first of many... the one you kill in BL2 was another, but there were probably quite a few of them by then
@@31284moose Yeah but that wasn't exactly a Doppelganger, it was only an Hyperion Engineer with this special cloak that made him look and sound like Jack, and that's exactly what the Vault Hunters will use to sound like him.
While Timothy had to go on a special surgery for, reasons, I think he had some debts with Hyperion or something like that, I don't remember exactly.
i think it was cannon that rhys killed jack's ai
Consider this instead: The man is Timothy. When leaving the casino at the end of the heist he realizes (very late) that what Moxxxi was telling him was that she went on a date with him because she knew he was Timothy and not Jack. Timothy just realized, that for the first time in possibly a long time, someone wanted him to be Timothy and not Jack. That’s why he runs back into the casino, because he realizes that he (Timothy) has a chance with Moxxxi.
This. ^^^
is this a sign of a new ship?
T.E.D.D The tranzit bus driver tbh I’d ship that
@@SirDiceGuy ok then
Watch, moxxi is gonna date Timothy then break up with him, then want Timothy dead. Just like how she did it with all of her "Ex's"
"He would never face you in person"
*faces you in person after shooting Roland like 3 seconds later*
That could of been Timothy
@@CrimsunVex why? Jack is a coward hes probably got hundreds of doubles
@@chrishrabe1542 what does Timothy have against the crimson raiders
@@voxal5371 we killed his girlfreind? The sherif who was also a playable charter un TPS.
Chris ur right Jack has loads of doubles with winning hands too but they all got killed when the casino went on lockdown so Timothy's the only one now
we’ll know timothy is jack when someone tries to rush him with a spoon and... you know what happens after that
He will help him with cereal and not take out those eyes with spoons.
Well, the jack DNA
A FREAKING SPOON
Moral of the story is: you're a total bitch
"and I scooped his little eyeballs out..."
The problem with this theory is every time Tim scans his hand it says doppelgänger
23-c why would jack let himself get trapped in his own casino
To bide himself time. What would be a better place to hide then a personal isolated place you built? It would give him more than enough time to recover and learn to act less like Jack. He could have even reprogrammed the ai scanners to recognize him as a doppleganger. Jack is too smart and cunning to not have a back-up plan for his back-up plan.
another problem, Jack is too arrogant to even think a master plan would stop the player he'd think a bunch of loader bots with no tatic would take us down so in short his hubris is his weakness.
@@anastasiaf7273 But have you heard what he says? All he talks about is how weak the resistance is so I don't think he'd have a clear mind just thinks he can defeat us with no plan. In short his pride just makes him weak.
@@johntinio1680 Back in BL 1 he manipulated and outsmarted the first vault hunters including Roland which put him in power. In BL 2 he allowed Wilhelm to be killed by the vault hunters so that he can use the core to lower Sanctuary's shield. In Tales even as a fraction of himself he managed to still come out on top. The point is that one of Jack's strong suit is being very cunning and I'm betting dollars to donuts that insane plans like replacing himself with a body double during the end of BL 2 is something he thought up. Also why the hell would he even have body doubles made if he doesn't plan on using them?
It is an AI which can easily be programmed by Jack to say any name when he is scanned, he could make it say Buttsalion 69-DP if he wanted. And whos to say he wasnt just laying low while his army was being built in the place called Jack's secret! Like maybe he had to adapt the plan when the vault hunter showed up since he wasnt ready for his plan go be executed.
I think because moxi told him he didn't remind him of jack, he was both physically free from the casino, but also free from having to "be jack" and is now truly allowed to be free. that's why he is so happy.
nerdinthebackroom FINALLY somebody gets it!
Yeah I’m surprised no ones else caught that right away.
I figured he didn't get the hint... Like she pretty much told him she likes him
@Davin exactly. Thank you.
@@Toby-Wan_Kenobi I'd like it more if he randomly appeared in friendly places all over the maps, with the bots on nekrodefayo, with hammylocks or clay on eden, moxxis at sanctuary, rhys office or the outer base on promethtea, or at Roland's rest on pandora, yknow using his new freedom
When I saw the “Jack... he was the worst...” I thought he was gonna betray them.
I thought it was when he was walking away and it said, "So... Heh... I didn't even fool you a little." Then he was gonna turn and reveal himself to be the real Jack.
Why are you here, go back to your house in the discord lulz
ONE HAND oh hey
Omg same XDD
Just wanted to add: I went to a small convention last August that Dameon Clarke (Handsome Jack/Timothy) attended. I went to panel he was doing with a couple other voice actors, where someone asked if Handsome Jack would come back. Dameon answered with, “I can’t say too much, but there is a small teaser...” Now, I may be reading too far into it, but someone asked him about Jack specifically...
Timothy’s entire identity was taken away when he was made into the likeness of Jack. The fact that Moxxi not only recognized him as not Jack but “didn’t even fool her a little bit” means that Timothy is still himself. It’s an identity thing.
It’s really sad that the dlc even if short has a better story then the actual main story
sad but wasnt rly hard to make it better than the main story haha
Anything with jack makes it better hehe
@@flexfuhyobih1353 indeed
why is everyone shitting on the main story i didn’t think it was that bad tbh
Justin Maclay I feel like Ava’s not even that bad, it accurately captures the emotions and thought process of a child, she grows on you and evolves as a character just like everybody else and i admire that.
Look how he runs
That’s Timothy for you
That was kinda the thing that stuck out that made me know it was Timothy. Tbh I preferred this story as it was him, not saying I didn't want Jack anymore, but I was sated with this DLC as well as having the gun that has his voice around. Plus I mean, you'd think that the Casino wouldn't be on lockdown or anything with him around, kinda makes sense with his DNA and scanners.
that's not an evidence if you ask me. I mean i dont think it was Jack either, it's just that everyone in this whole game has some ridicolous running animations. It made me laugh multiple times, my personal favourite is Hammerlock and Vaughn.
Moxxi knows that Timothy is jack probably. The date never happened. It is impossible for that date to ever happen. Jack doesn't remember that. It's been like 13 or 15 years.
Some suggested it doesn't count because running looks goofy in Borderlands series in general
Even if that's true, there is still two more clues it's actually Timothy.
The music sounds light hearted and honest af...aaaand the last frame where he was shown jumping.
This is something real Jack would never do if he isn't being observed, that's a dork named Timothy
“Handsome jack may be alive?”
Well, yea, but actually no.
Timothy has Jack’s DNA, so sometimes Jack’s original mannerisms come out as he’s talking. We see ALL throughout the DLC. Timothy knows he’s Timothy, but he also knows, he’s Jack, but just a little, since he was injected with Jack’s DNA. They make this very apparent since Tim apologizes every time he accidentally threatens the Vault Hunter. Whom he would’ve betrayed if Tim was actually Jack, but we see him help the Vault Hunters the whole time. Also, Tim isn’t as smart as Jack. His heist was basically’s just Moxxi’s with his narration.
Fun theory, I would love seeing Jack again, but this is Timothy Lawrence.
Bit late to the party, but I read this in one of the other comments; when Timmy put his ID card into the system, it called him jack-impersontor 36-C, but when he had his full-body scan, it called him Jack (though this may be on account on having Jack DNA literally in him.
I completely agree however it’s possible the jack dna could take over. Imagine a Hyperion chip inside tim that when set off releases more Jack dna further corrupting him. Eventually turning him into jack. I could think of a dlc story that revolves around this
@@dova117 maybe all the doppelgangers have some of Jack's dna in them
@@wrench3112 this is very unlikely
@@cosmicklampzy1222 the games a literal land of unlikely, in borderlands anything is possible
Devs confirmed Jack is dead. You'd think he would let anyone else besides himself control The Warrior?
Devs created ava
Pd:mayve he used a mind controler, we now that he can do it
@@brunocampopiano7924 Sadly (Hate that little prick)
I would also like to point out that in Tales, Rhys says that Jack is dead and Jack also says that he is dead and is stuck in Nakyama's holographic back up. Which, all though determinate, leads to Rhys having the choice of killing off the back up Jack
he would if he knew he was gonna die
If he's still alive I hope he kills Ava.
Thanks in advance Jack.
Oh look another grown man with no dignity crying about a kid
Heh that'll be funny.
Alexander_martinez shut up boomer lol
@@alexander_martinez6084 shut up boomer 😂
Alexander_martinez ok boomer
What the ending is supposed to imply is that Timothy realizes that Moxxi liked him the whole time and not Jack so he's happy and he even runs off and jumps into a freeze frame like the end of a bad sitcom.
We watched Jack die, we killed him. He was the one wanting to control the Warrior so he was the one that had to release it. He also wanted to kill us personally or watch us die to the warrior so he wouldn’t have swapped out a doppelgänger last minute.
True, no matter how much we want itz he won't come back. Ever
How to bring Jack back as the villain for the next game: Rhys kept his eye that had Jack in it because Jacks' last words made him a bit sympathetic and now some Hyperion scientist or other has stolen the eye and brought Jack back to life via his digital copy and is now again the main antagonist of the next game
There is one glaring problem with this theory. Why would he let anyone other than himself control the warrior? He spent years trying to gain control of it, no way in hell was he letting anyone else have that luxury.
Maybe he wasn't after the warrior I mean he saw the future and everything play out it seemed weird to me that we see jack can easily call in loader bots or agents but when he calls the warrior why is it now he chooses to be alone
Easy, the vault hunters were clearly a force to be reckoned with, they literally go through and kill basically everything, jack was smart and on top of that he already saw his death, why would he run and do the same thing he saw in his vision without a plan, if he did then he was just stupid lol, i like both timothy AND jack so if it turns out that this theory is true and it is jack that's okay, if it turns out he is timothy that's also okay, i doubt jack will come back though, but i guess we'll see.
DemonHunterX
He knew he was dead if he went to the warrior so he demanded a doppelgänger to go and take his place and then trapped himself on the Casino
@@captaincookie5325 If you played or watched tales from borderlands.. he had a plan.. his whole person was copied to a data stick.
But ryse who is now owner of the atlas coporation got rid of him after he loaded him in his own mind and destroyed those copie completely.
But yeah.. jack was smart.. why just haveing this one copie... so...
He saw his own demise in bl pre sequel, who would be in the right mind would kill himself if he know he will die
Maybe Jack saw his death in the vault so he replaced himself with timothy so that he can still alive and change his future
agreed, i don’t see why jack would see where he dies and then go down there
I mean he could have replaced it with a robot to after all jack literaly owned a company that makes robots
@@roymendoza2213 i think he replaced with timothy because remember that tim was with him in the pre-sequel so he could be the most realistic double, so he was perfect to replace himself
that was really funny dude
Nah, makes me wonder it you understand Jack's personality, Jack thought he was a hero and heros aren't tied down by faster, the he believed he could change it himself, sadly he is dead and denial won't change that. Sadly..
Also Timothy claim to have Jack DNA maybe his DNA was so much altered than he slowly become Jack without knowing
Honestly don't mind this idea but this dlc is set way later in the future, Like 7 years in the future, so the fact that it hasn't happened already is slightly odd.
what about cloning... did anyone think about cloning?... i know that its kinda bullshiting way to get some one back. But mabye a villain with a plot to revivejack.... oooh wait i think we already had one of those
@@MrHappymanx he's acting more and more like jack.
I have a theory. The vault hunter killed jack in Bl2 BUT… Jack had a subscription to his own New U station so he’s fine.
yeah, he prob got a stronger new U station connected a hyperion planet
New-U Stations are not canon. They only exist as a game mechanic.
@@PricelessDamnationV2 maybe there is only one canonical New U station and Jack owns it?
@@benthomas8264 He doesn't. Anthony Burch, the lead writer of BL2, confirmed New-U Stations aren't canon.
@@PricelessDamnationV2 the ones that we use, yes. but handsome jack could have his very own canonical New U station. the only canon one is jack’s
I believe your theory, the way he said "Jack, was the worst." Was out of pride and rather sinister. That would be a GREAT plot twist and redemption.
_Edit:_ Yet, I believe we should just let Gearbox tell their story...
I believe that also. We can share our thoughts but I cannot wait to see what they do with the story.
I feel like that was one of his outbursts like he has does throughout the dlc tho
@@jasi2666 yeah he has jacks ego and attitude randomly still due to process he went through of becoming jacks double and he cant remove it hense why he sounded bit dark and evil , its not timothy's fault!
Doubt i'll get the DLC, but I cant wait to hear about what happens in the future
I believe he was having a jackeffect and trying to be flirty, in the dlc it is shown he has jack tendencies,
If Timmo becomes Jack, that would make him a legend in terms of villians.
If that's the case then Borderlands would be pulling a 'Return of The Joker" on us. I'm sure Jack's dead...
I mean Timothy is a nice guy
@@Jetstream888 So was jack
@@Jetstream888 Jack was a good guy until everyone he knew betrayed him
@@Jetstream888 I agree with this man timothy is to nice to try and open a vault the way jack did and way to nice for anyone to betray him, me want moar Timothy in the story
Can I just point out that Moxxxi now controls a loader army that she said could conquer half of the galaxy? Can we please have loader bots fight by our side from now on?
i think it’s just him realizing that just because he was physically transformed into jack he will always be Timothy. He is free to be himself
I don’t agree with Timothy being being jack but I really think Timothy could descend into madness like a jack 2.0
Lets hope Jack DNA still have some hero on itself
@@aukun4992 what
@@MacaqueStinx i dont want my timmy boy to become evil,maybe jack dna still have some good
@@aukun4992 Jack wasn't evil to begin with, he just has some unfavorable traits
@@MacaqueStinx mass murder isn't evil?
To all people in the comments that jack knowingly went to die after seeing his fate, let me remind you that Lilith destroyed the object in the valut not letting him view himself dying rather just that he awakened the warrior.
What if jack is not dead but in something else jack could of done all this to reach mortality with the dna pitty he didn’t fix his face if it was true then jack would be handsome again too be honest what’s the point of a vault when your pretty much mortal unless somone kills your stack then yes lol
i mean i'm not really sure that's all true. he saw a LOT of the future. they're not gonna show everything in a cutscene especially when pre sequel was released AFTER bl2. ALSO, colonel Zarpedon? the Dahl lady trying to kill you? she's trying to kill you and DESTROY THE MOON (elpis) because she got into the SAME vault and saw the future and had so much knowledge that she knew humans shouldn't have because she could barely comprehend it herself. she decided that destroying Elpis would be the best way to protect the vault and humans from the knowledge.
I myself am hoping that this was Timothy, his character arc while small was about loosing oneself and finding it again and with the ending of the DLC with the echo I found it to be more like a seed of hope for him. After all Ember said she has tried to help him to be himself and with the graffiti on the walls of his home it show that he kept having Identity issues. Thanks to Moxxi telling him she liked him for him and not Jack, Timothy had began to be himself again and left to make his own life.
As for the whole not facing us in person part. Jack would never ever give up any power he would have had, the warrior was under his command and he would not let anyone take it from him, so a doppelgänger wouldn't be there at all.
But your theory is really good and well thought out and who knows maybe your right. We'll just have to wait to see.
I took the ending as “She said she didn’t believe I was Jack. Maybe I can have an actual life outside this whole mess”
You’re overthinking it my dude
Yea but where is the fun in that
@@sgtpepperjack6929 where's the fun in giving this character's arc a meaningful and satisfying ending? Fucking beats me mate
@@Torma25 e
thats literally it, hes basically going ''Broo no way she wants me to be timothy lawrence instead of jack'' so hes like damn bro i have a chance lets gooo
Man the whole time while playing through the DLC I was thinking the same thing, it’s probably just wishful thinking. My idea behind all this is that we’re going to find the real Timothy later on and that’s what will blow our minds, the fact that when you respawn at a new-you it sometimes says "Hyperion! We can always bring you back, no questions! Unless you died in a cutscene." And the jack that gets killed in Borderlands 2 is ether killed by us or Lilith. Sure he bleeds out in the cutscene but I want to BELIEVE!
7:43 Timothy would have begged for his life if he was there instead of Jack, he would break character.
Remember if the double gangers step out of line their head would explode what's the point
@@jasone7666 nope. It's only when you say your old name (TPS) or try to escape the Jackpot. Timothy has broken character as well, saying that his real name rhymes with 'Jimothy'
Or Timothy did break character and he was generally angry
I love handsome jack and i feel like this sort of twist would be exactly what handsome jack had planned all along. I thought we already killed timothy on opportunity to get the mask and voice changer. But now that couldve been any of the dopplegangers. I would love for handsome jack to still be around
well an interesting theory but there is one problem
the scanners in the casino, it can able to scan doppelgangers and detect if they were doppelgangers or Jack, the only reason the one at Jack's secret said that it was Jack is because Tim dressed as Jack, acted like Jack and gotten DNA of Jack so it can fool the scanner
but the earlier scanners show that it he is a doppelganger and not Jack
so I think Jack is still dead and this is Timothy
Not only that, but handsome jack is a godawful actor. To think he was both able to keep up an act for *seven years* when he could barely keep the fact that angel was his dauther under wraps in bl2, his shitty acting after you kill wilhelm, and the info kiosks and voice overs in the exploitation reserve have him going SUPER off script, AND the idea he knew a completely random body double so well he was able to imitate him is frankly rediculous.
If the scanners were able to be fooled by clothes and demeanor, then that just means that the only differences between the parameters for the doppelgangers and jack was the clothes and personality. It could very well be that it is Jack and that the scanners were just fooled.
Unfortunately, with the scanners, thoguh I do not believe this theory, is he probably could have reprogrammed them. He WAS a hyperion PROGRAMMER. He would have an intimate knowledge of the systems. Yes he is an egomaniac, but the Casino seems like it was a project of high importance to him, so he probably oversaw and knew every little detail about it. It is essentially his pride and joy to a degree.
From watching the clips the scanner seems to scan the glove he was wearing, not a full body scan.
So it could possibly be Jack wearing Timmothy identification or it is just the Doppleganger.
Also, when Timothy was disguised as Jack and the machine scanned him, why didnt it detect his metal hand? Or even the bomb in him?
Or even his cracked mask, Handsome Jack would most likely not walk around with a cracked mask
@@CrimsunVex Thanks fren
Or how you need winning hand clearance to disable "screw you, I'm rich". Why would Jack make it so his doppelganger can just cancel his commands?
@@cameronrobertson9800 no idea, just for plot convenience
@@cameronrobertson9800 he may have wanted Timothy to be the hero he never was maybe.
at the end of the DLC, right before the boss fight, Timothy, or as you’ve now convinced me, Jack, shouts at the vault hunter “Don’t die, otherwise This is on You!” and that sounded like something Jack would say
Are we just gonna skip over tales of the borderland where his company is taken over because of the fact he’s dead and you see jacks ai try and fail to hack the main character of the game
And the main character of tales of the borderlands destroy the last things that could possibly bring jack back after Learning jack was using him the whole time
And it was confirmed as canon
Honestly who knows what Gearbox is thinking of doing with "Timothy". Because technically speaking he could become Handsome Jack 2.0 if this Jack DNA thing manifests itself even more. But yes the way he said "Jack, was the worst" is very odd. Handsome Jack already knowing how he was gonna die is also suspicious. Who knows lol
You don't know if that Jack saw he was going to die. If he truly "saw everything" then none of the events in bl2 would have happened. He could have moved Angel before you got to her, he could have killed you numerous times to prevent you from stopping the Warrior. He most likely wouldn't have let Wilhelm die either so this theory that he saw his death and swapped himself is actually dumb and makes no sense.
Good theory, just one thing that bugs me. If Handsome Jack is still alive, why did he ever allow Hyperion to become disarray as seen now? My best bet, is Timothy is the one at the end of the DLC. But is afflicted with the same thing that caused Handsome Jack to go off the edge of sanity. Because Handsome Jack did inject his blood into his doppelgängers so there is a possibility of this actually happening. Just imagine a future DLC, Timothy becomes Jack 2.0 and Moxxi has to decide if to try and find a cure for Timothy or end Timothy. Her lines at the end of this DLC does show that Mocxi has some feelings towards Timothy. But hey it’s a theory...
Oh the disarray is from Tales of the borderlands,
I hope not, That has been done already in Batman universe with Joker infecting Batman. Don't need Gearbox to use the same kind of story with different characters.Bad enough BL3 and the DLC are disappointing. Gearbox doesn't need to become any more lazy.
A game theory?
@@deathjoker666 Gearbox should not ripoff game narrative, because like how MiHoyo ripped of narrative from Nintendo.
Handsome jack had said my most favorite quote out of all the video games I’ve played “never pick a fight with a man who has nothing left to loose”
Dude, your video randomly showed up in recommendations and thanks rng God for that. Such amazing video and channel.
Also, I wanted to say that gearbox should have told us more about Jack's AI in this dlc. Majority of players chose to save Rhys' echo device so it would be strange for them to keep silent about it. Yeah, we do have Jack's AI imprisoned in Handsome Jackhammer SMG, don't they think it's to little for a nearly greatest (if not the greatest) antagonist of history?
Freemaker 858 Thanks so much for your feedback man!
Fun fact when you first meet Timothy in the dlc he says a line very similar to the line Jack says in TPS
That’s because in the prequel if you play as Tim he blurts out things jack would say uncontrollably and then says god this guys sucks and stuff like that
@@pumpkinheadninja8303 pretty sure he just says that himself trying to act like jack but realize he's stupid, theres a line where he says when u accept nina's quest where he goes "Yea, alright im all over this quest, thats uhh... what jack would say." or something. also not related to the topic but i really love how timothy starts to dislike jack even more when u progress from the story.
I believe the ending went like this. Timothy didn't fool Moxxie even a little bit, that means moxxie said yes to him for dinner, but not for Jack. Moxxie was into him and he realized that. So in leaps of joy he went back to go be with Moxxie.
I feel he is Timothy,, as it is cool that he showed back up. He was fun to play in the presequal.
I think you’re missing that Timothy has been stuck on the casino since before jack was killed and if it was really jack on the casino himself there would be no way jack would allow himself to get stuck there seeing as jack always had a back up plan for such things..
He didn't think pretty boy would want his hand. Pretty boy is probably the reason he didn't escape. Or he thought the casino would be like a paradise
I always wondered myself as to why during Jacks boss fight, that Jack was using the hologram ability that was used by Timothy.
I mean it is Hyperion tech, why couldn't Jack use it,
But it was still odd to me.
And also the Handsome Jack-hammer, isn't that gun literally containing Handsome Jack's AI within it?
@@philswiftdestroyerofworlds1988 i think
@@philswiftdestroyerofworlds1988 it does, it talks quite a lot
Ooo good point. Also the scar on his face looks infected.
I love youre theory but there's one plot hole with that is then how did Jack's hologram in tales of the borderlands happen?
Dr. Nakayama. He created a jack bot with Jacks personality and all the traits that make jack who he is. And even when the good doctor was an idiotic excuse of a living being, i mean who dies the way he dies, he was a master in his working field and so the Hologram in Tales acted like the real jack would act. Even when the original body would be gone for a while now.
Him: Jack was misunderstood...
Me: *sees game theory: Handsome Jack, Monster or Misunderstood?
I know this is a year old… but remember when jack got the vault vision and he said “I can see everything” you’d think that would imply the grand scheme that the seer knows about in bl3 with Pandora being the vault itself and all the stuff with the 7th siren and Lilith being alive.
Makes me think that the warrior was only part of his long game plan somehow and he knew he would’ve died there had he not sent Timothy.
I could see him coming back in the next game as the antagonist again trying to find the 7th siren and finally bring about what se saw in the vision.
I only watched the dlc on a stream... but isn't it kinda fishy that Timothy claims to have forgotten the reason why he went to school in the first place?
IF he is actually Jack this could be quite a big hint. Jack could have forgotten about the past life of Timothy.
I mean he would have to memorize each and every doubles life... forgetting something about the past of one of them isn't that far fetched of an idea, isn't it?
i saw the claim of him forgetting why he went to school in the first place, as a joke of "why did i even go to school" as in he regretted going for school anyways
It was explained that all doppleganger of jack is brainwashed.
The face surgery they did to timothy made him lose some of his memories.
Dragynn999 the doppelgänger audio logs in TPS y’all about how the reconstruction surgery can have affects on memory, which is why the doctor asked Timothy if he remembered anything after the surgery
I like this because its a good idea and it makes i interesting to whats to come and i kinda get he could be jack or not. When he walks out and u hear the same same line to Moxxi said to Jack he could be happy that he actually tricked you and her u never know
I'm glad I wasnt the only one who thought that same thing and watched all the hints that to me confirmed it can be Jack.
When I heard Timothy's voice over the comma, I paused the game screamed yes and did a little dance.
Maybe there could ba a Batman Arkham thing where Tim could become Handsome Jack because he has part of him in his DNA, and he could take control, and all of that, you know?
CyborRider I was just thinking this. There was also the part where Joker was returning because of the people who were infected with his blood. They could do something similar but with Jacks dna instead. We don’t know how many doppelgängers there are - who knows what effect it could have had on them. Some might even truly believe they are the real Jack.
I hope not. I'm tired of seeing companies using other companies work and implementing them as their own. That is laziness. Bad enough Telltale Games did that with popular games and series.
RideTheLightning just because it has some similarities doesn’t mean they’re copying one another. There are so many unique ideas in this game franchise that to say they’re being lazy is kinda rude. You could say the siren lore is lazy - it used to mimic the slayer concept from Joss Whedons Buffy the Vampire Slayer. You could say the concept of a princess being kidnapped is an old cliche yet its one that is still used often. But an idea is fine - if it’s executed in an entertaining way then it’s fine. There are so many cliches used in games and movies, complete originality is incredibly difficult to do. But taking it, expanding on it to become its own separate thing is perfectly doable.
Was just looking for Tim, he’s vanished to my knowledge
6:00 don’t forget that all of the Body doubles also had some of jack’s dna put into them
So that smirk might just be that dna kicking in
So, I'm pretty sure lilith's return will likely be the major point of BL4. It appears Gearbox wants the sirens to be the focus of the main plotline while fleshling out the side characters in smaller, more focused DLC packs. That being said, I 100% believe that it's Timothy in the handsome jackpot. He's a total spineless shlub when you find him at the beginning, much like he is in the audio files you find in Pre-sequel where he's undergoing the surgery to become Jack. That being said, I could see Timothy slowly turning into Handsome Jack being a plotline going forward. We know Jack had been interested in the idea of immortality for a while and had scientists at Hyperion developing "precautions" in the event Jack died ( tales from the borderlands). Imagine, then, that while being surgically altered to look like Handsome jack, and implant is put into their heads that can alter their behavior to act, and think more like Jack, albeit slowly, so that they don't recognize that something's wrong. Jack is a narcissist and would therefore never want an army of people who think just like him, cuz they'd all be trying to kill him, but, at the same time, he clearly believes himself to be the hero of the universe, and wouldn't want the world to be without a Handsome Jack. So imagine this, what we are seeing is The Final phase of the doppelganger augmentation: full cognitive rewriting. It's already setting in, as he begins to say things and excuses them as "the Jack in me" during the DLC. A future DLC could be all about Timothy's slow transformation into the monster he shares a face with. Potentially, you could either choose to save him buy removing the chip, or kill him before he becomes a serious threat. Purely speculation, but I think it's a fun idea. Good video!
my opinion it could possible that we killed jack's another Doppelganger not timothy. Timothy says there is more than one Doppelganger, another thing that you know gearbox always giving surprises to the last.
Anirban Sen he said he was the last of his kind
but it could be possible that even timothy didn't know about that jack create multiple doppelganger .You know in pre-sequel jack saw everything even his death, i don't thing he is that idiot to go to his own death. It could be possible that he planned something before.
Pre Sequel had loop holes created,as if 2K AUS didn't bother researching details of BL2 before creating it so it wouldn't interfere with the story arc if BL2. I mean, in BL2 Jack was clearly the bad guy. Pre Sequel they made it to where Lilith Moxxi and the rest who went against Jack was the bad guys. Jack had a great reason to be pissed for what Lilith did to him. Pre Sequel ruined the story arc. Should have been made as an alternate reality story arc.
@@deathjoker666 I liked the pre sequel story, it set up and shown how jack became insane and his motives for bl2, as he didn't want to be the bad guy but him loosing his wife to bandit's then moxxi tricking him pushed him to hate bandits and vault hunters with a passion as he trusted in them but they used him so he wanted rid of the bad in his mind, as even vault hunters arnt angels all the time as I do agree with jack they can sometimes be like bandit's for there motives.
@@demonking3449 He was the last AT THAT POINT. Because all the other doppelgangers had been killed.
4:50 Timothy says in this DLC that after jack became disfigured due to the events of TPS he disfigured them as well and gave them the same mask as him
The problem I have with this theory is ignoring why he’d be happy from Timothy’s POV . Timothy by the end of TPS started to hate being a body double and wished he didn’t go through with the surgery. He hated how he’s lost his individuality. However, in that moment, he heard from someone he’s begun to trust tell him that she always knew he wasn’t jack causes him joy because it was reinforcement to him that he IS an individual and not just a body double. That’s why he’s happy and that’s why the dialogue played twice. It was Timothy realizing that the people around him see him as more than jack.
I was thinking thru the whole dlc that eventually Timothy would reveal himself to be the real Jack so I'm with you on this.
Would be cool if they did like what happened in Batman beyond: return of the Joker where even though Jack is dead Timothy becomes Jack because of the DNA sorta like how Tim Drake becomes joker in the movie
This. This I like.
anyone else notice how Timothy calls you kiddo the whole time exactly the same way jack does
When he accesses a door it says welcome doppelgängers
I miss jack so much, I wish this was true. Regardless how stupid it sounds.
Ikr ? I'd take Jack over edgy influencers
The dev's literally said jack isn't coming back
Thank god, hopefully it gives them the chance to work on some new characters.
Then again, BL3's new characters were mediocre, so they'll need to put in a lot of work
Devs created ava
Pd: he could control Timothy whith someting like the collar taht lilith have
@@brunocampopiano7924 that was to control a siren, Timothy had a bomb in his face which is more than enough reason to follow whoever has the trigger for it
@@mothichorror446 that is true, but, i say, that if he barely controls a siren, he can control totaly a human
i started the dlc after watching a History of Timothy video, so i was slightly spoiled into the story. but the bit that stuck to me in that video was as part of Tim's surgery and training to be Jack, his face was also outfitted with a speech sensor that if he ever introduced himself as Timothy, a bomb would go off, killing him. and what happens in the dlc? he introduces himself as Timothy, and nothing happens. so that struck me as odd, but i figured that if all the doppelgangers were in one place, they had no reason to hide their real name, so that function may have been deactivated after entering the casino
timothy's shirt have the Hyperion name in the middle of it aswell as handsome jack did
Can this please be canon? Jack is just awesome
Well Jack did put his DNA in his Doppelgangers so Timothy 50% and Jack 50% so technically yeah it is Jack but also no so it's very hard to say
There would not be that much of Jack's DNA there
Theory : since Tim has some of jacks dna would he start regaining some of jacks memories like how there was a jack ai in the telltale game
In one of his holo recordings he started to sound a bit like jack, specifically the one where he talks about how when the casino was locked down and people started losing their shit, he referred to them as animals.
You do know that Jack was a programmer and really smart right. He would've taken over the casino in minutes.
Handsome Jackie isn’t a doppelgänger she’s just a giant fan girl
Can we all just move on with Jack. Like i don't want like 10 borderlands games with Jack all the freaking time it would just get tiring. Jack already been in 4 of the Borderlands titles. Like I want fresh new villians that posses more of threat then Jack.
I honestly hope this theory doesn't come true at all and just let Timothy Lawrence be his own character, i was so freaking excited they brought him back and i want it to stay that way. Plus they can still keep Dameon Clarke on board with that character as well. The only problem with this theory too is that Moxxi would instantly know who he is anyway, it was like that in the Pre-sequel when you played Timothy Lawrence when meeting Moxxi on Concordia. Moxxi knew he wasnt the real Jack. I think there's also a reason why Timothy Lawrence isn't on Sanctuary, is because things would look pretty bad for him. Like some of the people on Sanctuary would probably shoot him in plain sight. The people that really do know his real identity would be Moxxi, most likely Athena, Dr. Nina, the citizens on board the casino, and our Borderlands 3 vault hunters.
I mean this theory is retarded anyway so yeah.
Why not? Jack was literally in every game. Just because he wasn't in 1 doesn't mean he wasn't actually there. Canonly he was manipulating the vault hunters with angel.
Jack is using his doubles and he stays home. Jack is wearing mask.
Be like Jack.
Timothy is the last doppelganger it directly says that in the dlc
*_TEORY: WHAT IF THE JACK WHO DIED ON BORDERLANDS 2 ENDING WAS JUST A DOPPELGANGER????_*
Yeahh, but why even in the moments prior to his Death he still kept his act as jack. If that Jack was a double he surely would have bagged the Vault hunters for his life
In BL2 we killed Timothy in Opportunity to get his voice after we destroy the BNK3R to get to Angel's Core Also RIP ROLAND 2009-2012
@@randomdude5090 not really as that was not timothy just another doppelganger, as Timothy said their were many doppelgangers
@@randomdude5090 that was a hologram doppelganger timothy went full chirurgick to be jack
@@randomdude5090
That wasn't Timothy,
It's confirmed not Timothy,
It was a hologram projecting Jacks Image over an enemy,
How do people still use this as a point.
Have already noticed the smile and the way timothy talks but you made it way more convincing
Ok so yeahi totally agree but whats ur explanation on tales of the borderlands about jacks consciousness as an ai hologram?
That was def Timothy at the end. Would have loved if the ending was Timothy replaying the line "I didn't even fool you? Not even a little" in his head then takes a huge smile and keeps moving forward away from the casino. Even if there was no evidence leading to this but I'd have imagine the Handsome Jack DNA all doppelganger got would take over the host, bringing Jack back. Something similar to Batman Arkham Knight with the Joker infection.
This video: Handsome Jack might be alive!
Me: Don't give me hope!
My wallet since I don't hv a good pc : I Cant die at the hands of filthy bandits !
(Bandits being the knowledge given from this video and death meaning being empty)
Ok this actually might be a mind blower 🤔....🤯
He has jacks DNA and even says it makes him sometimes act out for no reason.
JACK IS DEAD, BUT HE CAN BE REBORN.
It makes absolute sense that Jack comes back.
1. Abundance of resource (Tech, Money, Fans, Labs)
Jack runs an empire that spreads across the Galaxy. As far as we know, Hyperion is did a lot of research, like Slag and E-tech, where other companies had to buy from Hyperion. In Borderlands Online, a Maliwan sniper uses Hyperion Survey droid. They also made Loaderbot from telltales. So far, Hyperion has quite an impressive amount of tech, especially what they did with the Exploitation Centre and getting Camouflage out of Stalkers and giving it to Infiltrators. We also do not know exactly where all of Jack's people are, Jack has fans, Nakayama, Rhys, Wallethead, I'm sure there are more admirers out there. And in this DLC, Jack seems to have other bases that we do not know. Even Nakayama has his own ship, now Pretty Boy runs a Casino, I don't think the list of Bases ends here.
2. Incentives
For one, Jack likes getting his hands dirty, I don't think a Tyrant like him would not have backup plan after the events in Pre-sequel. He did get branded afterall. Besides, the man this narcissistic, would he allow galaxy to exist without him? Would he be satisfied with Nakayama's AI Resurrection plan? I think not, he called digital immortality a "Diet coke version of immortality" I'm sure every king has thought of immortality, for someone who likes to get his hands dirty, who is paranoid enough to get Dopplegangers, Jack must have at least a few plans to bring himself back.
3. Technological Advancement in Borderlands
We have seen a lot of things in this DLC, DNA altering people's behaviour, Multiple Dopplegangers, another Holographic AI, and some advanced cybernetics. There are Sirens, teleporting sirens, and power sucking ones too. The thresold for a return for Jack is surprising low, a copy of an AI and someone with implants. A lot of resources, a super low cost, voila, Jack.
So here's a theory, it can be very much possible that there are multiple copies of people like Rhys, someone who needs cybernetic implants, getting some AI Jack in his head. To be honest, it would make more sense to hide it in Dopplegangers, or Clones (Like Rick's Phoenix program), a cybernetically altered doppleganger/clone that looks like Jack, carries Jack's DNA, once the original article dies, the Dormant AI awakens, Jack comes back, what we saw in Pre-sequel might just be a faulty prototype, that AI afterall did come from a USB from Nakayama, someone who works in R&D. It did went completely nuts after they got to the Throne room without any kind of planning.
Borderlands allowed people to be taken apart and put back together, bring back a hero like that shouldn't be difficult.
4. Uncharacteristic points about Timo
A. Timothy shouldn't be allowed to say his own name, "Rhymes with Jimothy" Remember? If Hyperion codes are there, (hence he is stuck,) how can he just speak his name?
B. Timothy was also a kind person, killing a few dopplegangers out of self-defense? Kind dopplegangers dead? That sounds suspicious. It sounds like Jack doesn't want anyone to know he is not Timothy.
C. Timothy doesn't have the resolve to let his hand get cut off, that just doesn't sound like him.
D. If there are many dopplegangers, why we keep seeing Timothy, the doppleganger that is close to Jack? It makes sense Jack impersonates him, but our vault hunter seeing him again? Out of all dopplegangers?
D. Jack doesn't seem like the kind of person that gives his doppleganger a winning hand, that controls Everything on a Ship. Jack doesn't seem like the kind of person that leaves loose ends, like Wilhelm. As a Tyrant, I don't think it is a good choice to let someone that looks like you control a realm, or else you'll get replaced, right?
E. When did Timo loose his hand?
5. Logistics of Winning hand (Main response to video)
F. It is pointless to give a doppleganger A Winning Hand, naturally everyone would know Jack is not Jack, because Jack's hand is flesh and not robotic. Dopplegangers are supposed to impress people, because they think they are all Jacks. So jack can show off to his employees and be at a few places at the same time. (BL2 right before the bunker.) Meanwhile, if Jack survived injuries from Borderlands 2, he gets to get a new hand, then his dopplegangers gets one too....
G. Has another Doppleganger with a winning hand seen? I haven't played the DLC. If all Dopplegangers are dead, Pretty boy can just pick up a dead Doppleganger and get their hands. (Hand works after being detached) That can mean Timothy lied.
Giving out multiple grand-masterkeys to all doors where people get Very Emotional after they are in debt is a very bad idea, should it not be a masterkey that unlocks one level of doors, and another mastery key that unlocks other? In a logical sense, there should be a lot of "Minor-Winning hands" and a very limited copies"Winning hands" So all dopplegangers have winning hands are wrong.
This is just a video game, but Jack's my absolute favorite since I'm kid. I'm not letting him go. Borderlands is not the same without Jack, I'm sure a lot of people can say the same. This guy has 3 video games based off him and at every turn, he breathes life into the story. Obviously, no one wants him to become Joker in every Batman video game, but he is a cash cow. He is a perfectly original character, Gearbox would be a fool to just let him die.
I thought your theory sounded slightly impossible, but that angel audio sounded like solid evidence to back up all of this... the only problem is, when Tim is scanned it identifies him as a doppelganger, also if he was jack, we wouldn't need that winning hand glove, right? There is much evidence on both sides of the argument.
Joker's Vault maybe when it identifies him as a doppleganger it’s fake cause jack was a coder so he could’ve altered
The code
@@absanun3405 That does make sense actually
Joker’s Vault thanks :D
I shot handsome Jack in the face with a Norfleet, he's dead
Yet same could be said for hitler every evil mastermind fakes there death Elvis did it he is still not dead just went home I don’t believe the legend of rock and roll died I bet he is still alive and made fakes of himself
That still leaves a hole in the tales from the borderlands series that ties in between borderlands 2 and borderlands 3 that includes holo jack and the whole hyperion corporation thinking jacks dead
I think you might be right and its crazy to think that the only echos for any back story for any of jacks doppelganger's was Timothy like he was the favorite
Therefore I think through the dlcs Tim will be a background character until the final dlc where he is the final boss then the game will give you two options kill Handsome Timmothy or save him from ptsd
Tbh I love this idea and it seems a hell of a like Jack the way he talks at the ending cut sence, honestly it would be awesome if this idea is true. Yes Maya was killied by Troy and Lil had her poweres tooken away but Troy and Tyreen kinda sucked as the villian, HJ was a better villian any many aspects compared to them. Personally I would love to kill "Jack" again!
What’s the skill that lets you have fists punch as well
When you face Jack (or dopplejack) at the end of BL2 he's using Timothy's expendable assets (which symbolises the dopplegangers also) skill against you,soooooo... He also has had a habit of getting the vault hunters to do his dirty work inadvertently so this is how we would use them to escape the casino he shacked at temporarily. Also the pirate=vault hunter themes - In fiction the ultimate pirate has a dismembered hand
Wow....I had my suspicions but you totally got me thinking now 🤔 I reckon he's out there somewhere 😳
I think that he was so excited to not being recognised as jack distant him from jack therefore letting him be free so he can be his own person and have his own life
I was initially skeptical of this theory at first, but when you brought up the possibility that we could have killed one of Jack's doppelgangers at the end of Bl2, and not him, I was more convinced. Especially when you mention that Angel says that Jack is too much of a coward to face the vault hunters in person - why not have your proven and capable vault hunter doppelganger to do your dirty work (plus, Wilhelm was no longer an option lol). And 'Timothy' does seem a bit cowardly in the Handsome Jackpot - so possibly more evidence that it's Jack and not Timonthy.
But even if Jack isn't really a coward, why would Jack risk his own life when he could use Timothy's instead?
You put a lot more thought into but I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought Jack could be impersonating Timothy
“Of course this is just a theory, a game theor-“ lol
4:04 No he's just plain evil. The Pre-sequal showed us his transformation from average-Joe, to complete power-hungry sociopath. Jack went through MANY life altering events in the Pre-sequal that awoke his inner sadist and lead to him enjoying the misery of others, one example being the airlock scene: after doing what he thought a necessary sacrifice for the greater good he said that shooting the scientists out of that airlock felt "pretty good." Jack derives pleasure from tormenting and killing other people, while putting himself on a pedestal. Jack's full transformation is completed when Lilith brands the vault symbol on his face at the end of the game and he relishes the idea of reeking his vengeance and wiping the entirety of Pandora out. Yea, I'd say he's completely evil, not "misunderstood" , though that's what I think and I'm not claiming to be an expert. :P
Your right. At the beginning Jack was NOT a evil Guy, dar from it. Maybe kinda an Ass considering Angel but at that Point it is Possible that it was only for her Protection considering that she could not controul her Powers. But the Loss of Helios, seeing the Lost Legion Slaughter many of the innocent Workers, beeing betrayed by the Meriff who was after all an old Friend and all this other Bullshit...yeah it was all that Combined that let him loose his Sanaty and loosing his Handsome Face was pretty much the last Finishing Blow to crack him completley.
When I first saw that ending i too came to the same conclusion as you, I believe that jack is still alive, and as for Timothy saying hes got some of Jack's dna, and its that, that's giving him the jack tendencies, but who is to say that it's not Timothy's dna that got put into jack ?
5:51 I disagree about this because we gotta remember that Timothy has some of Jack's DNA in him which causes him to act like Jack too in some cases explaining why he said that line in that way. Plus he was getting real flirty with Moxxi.
I think Jack is dead but inside Tims head like in tales but instead of cyberneticly its psychological
Like jack in Ryhs