Sometimes a good cleaning does the trick. I gave up on being afraid to try to fix things along time ago. I have learned a lot since then on how things work. Jeremy Fielding's videos are my electric motor reference library.
7:45 "Must be some kind of special tool..." Sometimes if the shaft is narrow enough, I just use a socket wrench socket. Sometimes it's a little fiddly to find a socket that's got large enough ID to slip over the shaft but small enough to press the wire ring. Oh, ha you said socket right after. I think the centrifugal contact ring is for speed control. When the armature gets too fast the contacts spring out and disable the motor briefly. When the armature gets slow enough they retract, connection is made correctly and the motor speeds back up. Cleaning that up could have easily fixed it.
I think it might have fixed it. The centrifugal switch shorts out the windings that are used for starting. I hope I never have to deal with weird ring like that again. That was a first so it may also be the last. I''m 64 and might be working on motors for 20 more tops. Ha
This is the only repulsion motor that I've seen so it was interesting to see inside of it. I remember when you made the reversing lever but I don't remember seeing the centrifical switch for the starting windings. Watching you taking the retaining ring off made me wonder if anyone makes pliers that are made to spread instead of pinch. Seems like they would come in handy now and then. Thanks for showing this Winky
Snap ring pliers can work in both directions. Trick is to keep the jaws on the ends of the spring clip without slipping off. Replaceable tips can be modified with flats.
@@WinkysWorkshop I had to deal with those spring rings. Both methods - screwdrivers and ring pliers. To install, use an arbor. In a pinch a deep socket will do.
@@milantrcka121 making tips for snap ring pliers is a great idea. It is always nice to have the right tool for the job. This reminded me of when I was a teenager trying to change my drum brakes shoes with a screwdriver and pliers. Finally a friend gave me a nice Snap On tool for taking the springs off and putting them back on. It wasn't even a chore after that.
No double espresso dance today. I looked up repulsion induction motor. Amazing the things they came up with in early development of the industrial revolution and how quickly they replaced the technology with new ideas. These types of things interest me greatly. Thank you.
They were popular for quite a while. I might be wrong but I think until the mid 50's. I know I have repaired at least 10 of them in my lifetime. They always have brushes. Some, like my lathe motor, run full time and other retract from the commutator. The ones that retract get gummed up. Most of them I have fixed I just cleaned them. This is the first one i have worked on with the switch on the armature (Shorting necklace). In some ways in simplifies the design but the full time brushes also wear. I read some electrical theory about the design It kind of made sense but was too deep for me.... complex stuff.
@@WinkysWorkshop i am a construction electrician working in the wood industrea that has wired 1000s of 3 phase and single phase motors and i still do not totally understand all the theory behind motors. Fortunately connecting one up does not depended on understanding the magic behind them.
I had to change my motor in my old South Bend but it isn't outside like yours, it's under the cabinet. It was hard getting around inside there to get it out. I I had to try two different Motors, and during the first motor, the whole leg fell on top of me taking a gap out of my hand pain in my legs under the thing, luckily I had my phone on my side and I was able to call my neighbor he's 82 years old, he came down pull that thing off me enough to get out from under it. I got it back up in position and put the last motor in. Now it works again.
The type plyers required are called external "notched" snap ring plyers. The tips on the pair I have are ~ 1/4" square with a dimple to catch the angled end of the snap ring. Use an image search to see the different kinds out there. Oh, and nice job. Think about getting a can of electrical component cleaner. Don't have to be concerned with damaging windings etc. Depending on how much you have to take of the armature make sure the insulation doesn't need to be cut down. Given what you have, a ground cut off tool would be perfect. Utility blades work too.
Looked thru the comments and no one said this, but at 2:33 when you took out your rotor, it looked like your fan was bent. Just wondered if this might of been the noise at the startup? Really enjoy your videos! Thanks for Sharing!
The fan was a little bent but firmly attached to the shaft. Apparently it's a normal sound. On other videos where I am using the lathe some have said, nothing like the sound of a repulsion induction.
Its amazing what a little cleaning will do some times. The only other thing I might of done was cleaned the brushes but they do seem to be working fine at the moment.
Cleaned 3HP repulsion motor up and it ran for a few months. Then it did not want to start. Then it gave me a shock through the case and I put it up in the loft. It was a noisy beast. The motor was kinda of period for my lathe but I don't miss it.
Never seen movable brushes for reversing a motor before ! The only time I've been aware of a single movable brush is on old '3 brush' dynamos on cars - the third brush being adjustable to adjust the charge rate ! Once it's running, does the motor reverse easily - or does it 'complain' badly ;) ?
Winky another success story. Perhaps your new conduit fittings are 20 mm metric and the old motor would have been 3/4” conduit thread. They probably make an adapter. For future video reference try NOT to have white paper on your bench as the auto iris on the camera referenced the paper and made the general shots harder to see as they were darker than usual. The rest away from the white paper were fine. Regards from Australia.
Yeah... I noticed that while editing. I need to get a roll of craft. I even adjusted the brightness while editing. Thanks. It's a US motor so probably not metric. I just made a coupler. It's 16 TPI and smaller than a 1 inch pipe and considerably bigger than 3/4" If I had to guess I'd say 1-1/8 x 16.It took me three tries. I cut a pipe nibble in half and threaded it full size and it didn't fit. I ground the threads off and did it again an it was perfect. Yeah yeah... I said three, the first one moved in the chuck. Ha
I love these motors. I put 1 on my hendey to take advantage of its fwd/Rev capabilities. And 1 of my mills came with 1 on its X/Y feed drive. Cool sounds some of them make as they spool up and wind down
Winky, You have a screw cutting lathe. You can make an adapter to go from the motor to the conduit box. You are still better than me. Like your videos.
@ and so many of us have a digital camera now,no need to worry about wasting electrons taking a picture as each piece comes off. Winkey even had a movie!
I just bought a large Craftsman lathe has a huge motor in the cabinet.hope I don't ever have to take it out.Although I'm cleaning mouse nests out the gearbox now while watching winky videos..
Thanks! Yeah... they all seem to be okay although I'm not sure how much pressure needs to be on the brushes. I think cleaning the commutator may have fixed it.... hoping
@@WinkysWorkshop Might have just been gummy....If the mica is high, that will lead to bad commutation.. People also make the mistake of using the wrong oil in many old motors.. Something light like 10w non det....Cheers from Louisiana
Another from down under, where the women glow and men plunder. I love the solid, purposeful construction of these old electric motors. I think you did a fine job Winky Wonder. It would be nice to track down that rattle when she starts, can you hear the thunder? You better run, you better take cover.
@@Bennyboy-dog - Thanks for the lyrical comment! That bit of thunder is actually characteristic of a repulsion induction motor. I've even had a few comments on my other videos when I use the lathe... several have said, "you can't miss the sound of that repulsion induction".
The fitting is large, 1-inch NPT. I thought the motor was the same but it is 1-1/8"-16 thread which is actually smaller than 1-inch pipe OD., I made a fitting today. I cut a 1-inch threaded nipple in half and threaded the un-threaded end. I had to do it twice. I ended up grinding the threads off and threading it again. Crude methods but it worked great.
Hello Winky, that's not a motor for a lathe, take an asynchronous motor with a frequency converter. Dimension larger then you have enough power at every speed and you save yourself having to move the V-belt. Greetings from Styria
What can I say... I'm old school and this is a 1931 South Bend lathe. If I was in a production shop supporting myself I would not own a South Bend. Greetings from Kentucy!
Apparently it's characteristic of repulsion induction motors. In videos I where I have used the lathe I have had comments like, "nothing quite like the sound of a repulsion induction motor." I'm not sure I have fixed the start winding but I suspect this motor will run another 90 years.
8:15 Looks like you're using a 'sharp' screwdriver on the main bearing surface - not a good idea ! Yes, a tube to push the ring back in place would be a good idea /technique. It's not is it ! LOL The bearing is in the end cap ! Is it ball bearings or just bushes ?
I think most electrical problems can be attributed to dirt. Some of those lazy electrons just won't fight their way through dirt. Silly electrons. We just need electrons with more moxie.
I've fixed a lot of motor and aside from a bad capacitor they were all just dirt of a sticking start mechanism. I'm just an Armature when it comes to electric motors ... Hehe
Sometimes a good cleaning does the trick. I gave up on being afraid to try to fix things along time ago. I have learned a lot since then on how things work. Jeremy Fielding's videos are my electric motor reference library.
I'm the same way... although I do set priorities. If it's important to me I jump is.
Thanks for that comment, saved me the research project as I was sure "someone" probably has a good library of instruction.
7:45 "Must be some kind of special tool..."
Sometimes if the shaft is narrow enough, I just use a socket wrench socket. Sometimes it's a little fiddly to find a socket that's got large enough ID to slip over the shaft but small enough to press the wire ring. Oh, ha you said socket right after.
I think the centrifugal contact ring is for speed control. When the armature gets too fast the contacts spring out and disable the motor briefly. When the armature gets slow enough they retract, connection is made correctly and the motor speeds back up. Cleaning that up could have easily fixed it.
I think it might have fixed it. The centrifugal switch shorts out the windings that are used for starting. I hope I never have to deal with weird ring like that again. That was a first so it may also be the last. I''m 64 and might be working on motors for 20 more tops. Ha
Always good to learn more about motors. Love the video.
Thanks Dann!
This is the only repulsion motor that I've seen so it was interesting to see inside of it. I remember when you made the reversing lever but I don't remember seeing the centrifical switch for the starting windings. Watching you taking the retaining ring off made me wonder if anyone makes pliers that are made to spread instead of pinch. Seems like they would come in handy now and then. Thanks for showing this Winky
Snap ring pliers can work in both directions. Trick is to keep the jaws on the ends of the spring clip without slipping off. Replaceable tips can be modified with flats.
I hope I never see one again... I'm 64 yrs old and this is a first
Yeah... this is a cool motor. I know the switch was in there but have ever had it apart until now.
@@WinkysWorkshop I had to deal with those spring rings. Both methods - screwdrivers and ring pliers. To install, use an arbor. In a pinch a deep socket will do.
@@milantrcka121 making tips for snap ring pliers is a great idea. It is always nice to have the right tool for the job. This reminded me of when I was a teenager trying to change my drum brakes shoes with a screwdriver and pliers. Finally a friend gave me a nice Snap On tool for taking the springs off and putting them back on. It wasn't even a chore after that.
No double espresso dance today.
I looked up repulsion induction motor. Amazing the things they came up with in early development of the industrial revolution and how quickly they replaced the technology with new ideas. These types of things interest me greatly.
Thank you.
They were popular for quite a while. I might be wrong but I think until the mid 50's. I know I have repaired at least 10 of them in my lifetime. They always have brushes. Some, like my lathe motor, run full time and other retract from the commutator. The ones that retract get gummed up. Most of them I have fixed I just cleaned them. This is the first one i have worked on with the switch on the armature (Shorting necklace). In some ways in simplifies the design but the full time brushes also wear. I read some electrical theory about the design It kind of made sense but was too deep for me.... complex stuff.
@@WinkysWorkshop i am a construction electrician working in the wood industrea that has wired 1000s of 3 phase and single phase motors and i still do not totally understand all the theory behind motors. Fortunately connecting one up does not depended on understanding the magic behind them.
@@countrycraftsman5110 It's hard to understand anything completely. Years of technology build on past technology !
@ I put a lever on the brushes so that I could reverse it from the front of the lathe
@ thank you. I knew about rotation. But did not know about the speed change. I really enjoy learning and getting good feed back.
I had to change my motor in my old South Bend but it isn't outside like yours, it's under the cabinet. It was hard getting around inside there to get it out. I I had to try two different Motors, and during the first motor, the whole leg fell on top of me taking a gap out of my hand pain in my legs under the thing, luckily I had my phone on my side and I was able to call my neighbor he's 82 years old, he came down pull that thing off me enough to get out from under it. I got it back up in position and put the last motor in. Now it works again.
Sounds like a larger motor although mine is huge compared to the HP rating. Glad you got some help!
The type plyers required are called external "notched" snap ring plyers. The tips on the pair I have are ~ 1/4" square with a dimple to catch the angled end of the snap ring. Use an image search to see the different kinds out there. Oh, and nice job. Think about getting a can of electrical component cleaner. Don't have to be concerned with damaging windings etc. Depending on how much you have to take of the armature make sure the insulation doesn't need to be cut down. Given what you have, a ground cut off tool would be perfect. Utility blades work too.
Thanks for the info on both the pliers and cutting back the mica !!!
Hey Wink you my friend are a heck of a contraptionologist great stuff
Let me look that up! Ha (thanks)
You can replace that ring with a modern snap ring they work great. I've got a few of those old motors if you ever need one. Great video.
Great idea! Thanks
You are like me Winky, not afraid to tear anything apart! Good job sir!!!
Nothing to fear but fear itself! Ha Thanks!
@@WinkysWorkshop Yes Sir!!!
Looked thru the comments and no one said this, but at 2:33 when you took out your rotor, it looked like your fan was bent. Just wondered if this might of been the noise at the startup? Really enjoy your videos! Thanks for Sharing!
The fan was a little bent but firmly attached to the shaft. Apparently it's a normal sound. On other videos where I am using the lathe some have said, nothing like the sound of a repulsion induction.
Nice to watch, I'd never seen that mechanism on a motor. Thanks
It's fascinating old technology. I only understand the basics. Capacitors start are probably cheaper to make.
Its amazing what a little cleaning will do some times. The only other thing I might of done was cleaned the brushes but they do seem to be working fine at the moment.
True... I don't think it will be an issue but clean is good
Gday, you did a great job there, it’s amazing what a good cleaning will do, now this will last another 50 years, cheers Matty
I do hope you are right... maybe it will outlast me!
Sometimes thats the best fix!
Instablaster.
It is so easy with snap ring pliers I did the same thing in the past I do not use them often but boy it is good to have Good health to you and yours
I have all sorts of snap ring pliers. This was more like a thick piece of spring steel coat hanger bend in a ring. No holes for pliers.
Cleaned 3HP repulsion motor up and it ran for a few months. Then it did not want to start. Then it gave me a shock through the case and I put it up in the loft.
It was a noisy beast. The motor was kinda of period for my lathe but I don't miss it.
It sounds like your motor had several problems. I'm not sure mine are fixed but it's a quiet motor aside from when it starts
Never seen movable brushes for reversing a motor before ! The only time I've been aware of a single movable brush is on old '3 brush' dynamos on cars - the third brush being adjustable to adjust the charge rate !
Once it's running, does the motor reverse easily - or does it 'complain' badly ;) ?
As far as I know it is standard for repulsion induction motors. Normally you would need to remove the cover to move i.
@@WinkysWorkshop Not come across 'repulsive' ones before. I'm pretty sure I can't see any benefit from it.
👍👍😎👍👍. Looks like it was an almost perfect day. Now you have a project to figure out those coupler threads. That’ll be interesting. 🙂
I made the coupler today... sorry, no video.
Winky another success story. Perhaps your new conduit fittings are 20 mm metric and the old motor would have been 3/4” conduit thread. They probably make an adapter. For future video reference try NOT to have white paper on your bench as the auto iris on the camera referenced the paper and made the general shots harder to see as they were darker than usual. The rest away from the white paper were fine. Regards from Australia.
Yeah... I noticed that while editing. I need to get a roll of craft. I even adjusted the brightness while editing. Thanks. It's a US motor so probably not metric. I just made a coupler. It's 16 TPI and smaller than a 1 inch pipe and considerably bigger than 3/4" If I had to guess I'd say 1-1/8 x 16.It took me three tries. I cut a pipe nibble in half and threaded it full size and it didn't fit. I ground the threads off and did it again an it was perfect. Yeah yeah... I said three, the first one moved in the chuck. Ha
I love these motors. I put 1 on my hendey to take advantage of its fwd/Rev capabilities. And 1 of my mills came with 1 on its X/Y feed drive. Cool sounds some of them make as they spool up and wind down
Yeah... it's a different sound for sure. People that know motors can tell by the sound what it is,
Winky, You have a screw cutting lathe. You can make an adapter to go from the motor to the conduit box.
You are still better than me. Like your videos.
Thanks,... yep, I'll make one!
Great video!!
Thanks!
My 1968 Unisaw has a repulsion induction motor in it. When the mass of that heavy armature gets up to speed, that thing will cut thru anything.
1/2 I'll bet... these motors are huge. Mine is only 1/2 HP
We are alike in this, not knowing how something works never stopped me either from taking it apart! Lol
Exactly
@ - It slows me down at times... cell phone cameras are a big plus
@ and so many of us have a digital camera now,no need to worry about wasting electrons taking a picture as each piece comes off. Winkey even had a movie!
sometimes just a good ole cleaning can make all the difference ! ENJOYED
You are so right! Although... I'm not positive it is fixed. We will have to wait and see.
Nice repair in another good video.
Thanks you sir!
I just bought a large Craftsman lathe has a huge motor in the cabinet.hope I don't ever have to take it out.Although I'm cleaning mouse nests out the gearbox now while watching winky videos..
That is awesome! Hahaha
Why did you not think of using snap ring plyers they would have been much more help full to you with the install of that ring.
The only ring pliers I have require holes. This ring was just a sold wire ring
Check brush length, spring tension.. high mica....loose connections.Cheers from Louisiana
Thanks! Yeah... they all seem to be okay although I'm not sure how much pressure needs to be on the brushes. I think cleaning the commutator may have fixed it.... hoping
@@WinkysWorkshop Might have just been gummy....If the mica is high, that will lead to bad commutation.. People also make the mistake of using the wrong oil in many old motors.. Something light like 10w non det....Cheers from Louisiana
@@ramsay19481 - Interesting... thank!
You could treat the motor to a protective starter switch - just in case you get the urge to do a lot of heavy machining one day.
Probably a good idea but the light switch works very well too.
@@WinkysWorkshop But it won't trip if you overload the motor !
@@millomweb True
First from Down Under that's a miracle must be the time zones.
Cool! Or when I posted.
Another from down under, where the women glow and men plunder.
I love the solid, purposeful construction of these old electric motors. I think you did a fine job Winky Wonder.
It would be nice to track down that rattle when she starts, can you hear the thunder? You better run, you better take cover.
@@Bennyboy-dog - Thanks for the lyrical comment! That bit of thunder is actually characteristic of a repulsion induction motor. I've even had a few comments on my other videos when I use the lathe... several have said, "you can't miss the sound of that repulsion induction".
@@WinkysWorkshop Ooooh, that's what that is! Off to wikipedia to learn some more details on repulsion induction motors! Thanks WW!
@@Bennyboy-dog - they are interesting.... motors in general
Winky the thread on that fitting looks like it might be 3/4"NPT or 1/2" NPT
The fitting is large, 1-inch NPT. I thought the motor was the same but it is 1-1/8"-16 thread which is actually smaller than 1-inch pipe OD., I made a fitting today. I cut a 1-inch threaded nipple in half and threaded the un-threaded end. I had to do it twice. I ended up grinding the threads off and threading it again. Crude methods but it worked great.
Hello Winky, that's not a motor for a lathe, take an asynchronous motor with a frequency converter. Dimension larger then you have enough power at every speed and you save yourself having to move the V-belt. Greetings from Styria
What can I say... I'm old school and this is a 1931 South Bend lathe. If I was in a production shop supporting myself I would not own a South Bend. Greetings from Kentucy!
This is a blind guess, but I think that copper springy-thing a centrifugal switch: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_switch
It is a switch but in this case it is called a shorting ring. the segment fly out and short out the start winding
That motor is not sounding too good there Winky. You probably should start to shop around now for a new one or a good motor repair shop.
Apparently it's characteristic of repulsion induction motors. In videos I where I have used the lathe I have had comments like, "nothing quite like the sound of a repulsion induction motor." I'm not sure I have fixed the start winding but I suspect this motor will run another 90 years.
And yes they do make expantion plyers for just that type of ring
I'm sure you are right... I can't imagine how they would work!
MY 1968 Unisaw uses one of these motors.
Interesting motors
8:15 Looks like you're using a 'sharp' screwdriver on the main bearing surface - not a good idea ! Yes, a tube to push the ring back in place would be a good idea /technique. It's not is it ! LOL The bearing is in the end cap ! Is it ball bearings or just bushes ?
It's a sleeve bearing.
@@WinkysWorkshop A bush, in other words :)
I think most electrical problems can be attributed to dirt. Some of those lazy electrons just won't fight their way through dirt. Silly electrons. We just need electrons with more moxie.
I've fixed a lot of motor and aside from a bad capacitor they were all just dirt of a sticking start mechanism. I'm just an Armature when it comes to electric motors ... Hehe
@@WinkysWorkshop Are you a well armed armature? I did get paid, once, for a motor repair. Does that make me a professional motor repair person?
@@blfstk1 Yeah... maybe!
Reversible snap ring pliers could be your friend
These really are not snap rings... no hole. I have reversible snap ring pliers
Brushes are only used during the starting phase, looks like a old master RI motor , don’t make them anymore
Yeah... these are full time brushed and the shorting necklace shorts the commutator.
upgrade
No way... love this motor!
A fine old French design, now worth nothing !
Ha... say what? You mean the repulsion induction? Cool motor