This looks like an excellent design. Thank you for posting. I started Googling for a motor but didn't find an applicable one yet. Will you help us by posting a parts list? Links to the parts you purchased would be invaluable.
Search for "24 or 36 volt electric chain drive motor conversion for bicycles". They run about $100 for the motor. Then you need a battery and charger. Then of course the go kart drive wheel, tubing and other stuff.
My Sons and I fabricate concepts all the time, and from that experience I can say you did a great job. Functional, inexpensive, and an exceptional appearance. As a pilot, here's my question. Some hangars, and every ramp has an incline and decline to address. On your unit, I see the go but no stop. Additionally, with motion (forward or rearward) inertia exists. I realize the motor likely has an element of resistance built in, but on the side of insurance, I'm curious what happens when you need to stop suddenly?
I have not found it to be a problem. How would you stop if you were using a hand tow bar? There is a considerable amount of resistance through the gearbox and motor so when you release the throttle it stops pretty quickly. If you have a significant incline where you tow your aircraft around I’m not sure this is a suitable design for you. Building in a brake mechanism has not been a feature that I’ve ever felt the need for in the 4 years that I’ve been using it and I often have to play airplane Tetris when I have friends’ airplanes in the hangar.
@@rocclobster When it works ... don't fix it. Using hand tow bars I can feel the inertia setting in and I always have a wheel chock to insert if necessary after applying my hand against the spinner. My concern would likely come into play with a heavier plane too.
@@richardgreen7811 this design would need some modification for airplanes heavier than a C-182 or RV-10 weight class. If I was handling Bonanza or larger I think I would consider a brake mechanism. It would also require a rethink of the structure and the drive system. This is an intentionally simple tug and works pretty well for it’s designed purpose.
I think You should add safety switch and made some cover for this gear chain. But more important thing is to always have a electric fuse in case of short circuit. Many people like to forget about this and ask why fire happened... Short circuit can happen even in best designs in worlds.
There are 2 fuses, one for the motor circuit and one for the electric actuator. Both fuses are located in the battery box. As for the cover on the chain it’s not needed. I’m the only one that uses it and when in operation I am not within reach of the drive mechanism. If you build one you’re welcome to make yourself a chain guard if you want.
@@rocclobster ok, good. However, we dont know when small accident happen, so better to be protected - just telling (one time I accidentally put sharp knife into my own leg...).
@@cmjohnsondds ha. I still use it. The only change I made is I swapped the gear for a 72 tooth. I built this so it would be inexpensive and easy for others to build one for themselves.
Great project! An improvement for people who attemp to replicate your project would be to shorten the wheel axle and bring the bearings closer to the wheel.
Of course you can modify it however you see fit but I'm not sure what you would gain with your suggestion. It would require mods to the simple box frame. The goal was for it to be simple to make, inexpensive, and use readily available parts. I built this one in 2018 and use it quite a bit. To do what you suggested would require the frame to be narrower which would then require an additional mod to attach it to the airplane. I guess you could add a couple more frame pieces beside the wheel to accept the pillow blocks but that is just adds more expense, weight and additional welding for no gain in performance or practicality. There was a suggestion to go with a larger driven sprocket, 60 or 65 tooth rather than a 450w motor that I suggested in the video. That's a change that would fit with the design parameters that I set for this project and I think it would work well.
@@rocclobster As long as the axle holds up, I have nothing to say :D I had a big project being ruined by the axle being too soft and bending under load. It was terrible. I'm happy to hear that everything works fine. Great little tool!
@@karim1485 the axle is holding up well so far. There's not as much strain on it as you might think. The frame is 12" wide and the wheel is about 4 inches wide (outside to outside at the bushings). With the pillow blocks being 1" that leaves about 3 inches of unsupported axle on each side. The alxe shaft I used is a hardened steel one like this one: www.princessauto.com/en/detail/3-4-in-x-3-ft-keyed-shaft/A-p8079733e If you were to use a softer metal or a steel tube for an axle it might cause some issues, I don't know.
@@karim1485 I think I if someone was to choose an axle that is not as strong as the one I used your suggestion might be a good solution. It could also be a less expensive option because the axle I bought was fairly pricey.
Yes it would help for sure. There was at least one built with a 65 tooth and it works very well for his 182. I’m considering doing the same. More torque would be nice and, with my current ratio, I have a little more speed than needed.
The controller has a reversing function but I didn’t use it. I used a DPDT switch and wired it to reverse the polarity on the motor. Using the controller would have been the ideal option but I didn’t realize it had that function until someone else pointed it out. The controller wiring instructions were in Chinese. I purchased my parts from eBay and Amazon but now there’s a one stop source for everything. www.electricscooterparts.com/
I took a 1”x1”x1” block of aluminum and filed it concave round so that it made a nice fitting pad between the movable shaft of the actuator and the tubing that slides in and out to grab the lugs on the wheel fork. The stationary end is just bolted to the frame of the tug.
I am very interested in building a tug similar to yours. You suggest using a 450W motor rather than a 350W motor to increase the force. But there are fewer choices for 450W motors and they are far more expensive. If you were not using full (100%) throttle you could increase the number of teeth in the wheel sprocket to gain more force and possibly still maintain the same speed. Approximately what percentage of full throttle were you using at the start of your first video? What is the gear ratio in your motor reduction gear? Also, giving us the motor manufacturer and model number might answer a lot of questions. Thank you for your help.
Under load the 350w motor and the gearing that chose provides a easy walking pace backwards at full throttle when pulling the RV-10 out of the hangar on level ground. The sprocket on the motor is a 9 tooth and the driven sprocket on the wheel is a 44. There was no documentation that came with the motor so I don’t know the reduction of the gearing in the motor’s gearbox nor do I know the rpm of the motor at full power with no load. You could use a 48 tooth and get a little lower gearing. It’s entirely possible that the 48 tooth sprocket would provide a more suitable ratio for this load but, if I was to do it again from scratch, I would just go with a more powerful motor.
@@rocclobster Finding a suitable 450W motor for a decent price has been difficult and all the ones found have lower reduction gear ratios which defeats the purpose. If you have any suggestions please send them along. So far my best options are to stick with 350W motor and use a 60- or 72-tooth sprocket on the wheel to lower the gearing. The top speed will be 30-40% slower than yours but that probably won't be an issue. The biggest problem I am facing is getting the #410 wheel sprocket. They are $80-95 depending on the number of teeth. I considered switching to #25 chain but the #25 motor sprockets have a D mount and the #410 is keyed so that is not an option. How much down force do you apply to the handle to keep the wheel from slipping?
@@rocclobster I found that motor, also. But the gear reduction is 7.14:1 (3000 RPM/420 RPM) while the 350W motors are 9.7:1. That becomes a break-even with torque. It would take a 60-tooth wheel sprocket to match the force of a 44-tooth sprocket with a 350W motor. More speed with the 450W but less torque. I think your original choice of 350W motor was a good choice. Just go to a larger wheel sprocket for more torque. What size batteries did you use? I am thinking a 7.5 A-hr. That should give about 25 minutes operation time. Plenty to push in and out.
I specifically spec’d the brushed motor MY1016Z. My apologies if I said it is a brushless, I misspoke. I also spec’d the controller for a brushed motor. There are only 2 wires coming out of the motor. BTW I also said in one of these videos that I would have went with a 450w motor. After hearing from others that decided to use a lower gear ratio with this motor, it seems that the sweet spot is a 60 tooth driven sprocket. The sprocket on the motor is a 9 tooth. A more powerful motor is unnecessary.
Thank you very much, I am currently adapting your design for my RV-6. I also did an amazon search for a brushless Motor and ordered what came up and was surprised when it arrived with only two wires. a closer look indicated that I had ordered a brushed motor. I also ordered a thumb throttle like you have but returned it as it indicated that it only worked with a hall sensor for a brushless motor. I will order another as I like it much better than the twist knob that came with the brushed motor controller. I will see how the 44 tooth sprocket I have works, my 6 is only 1072 lb. empty.
I don’t know if it’s possible to post a picture here but I would like to see what you built. It might also help others improve on what I have done here. To answer your question, I don’t need to lift it up completely but it is a “skid steer”. The design concept was to make a tug that is simple to build, fairly inexpensive and allow me to move the airplane around without breaking my back. To build in an articulating feature (or functionally similar) to negate having to relieve down pressure in order to allow it to skid steer is certainly possible but not as simple. There are many ways to improve on this very rudimentary design but I haven’t come up with anything that didn’t make it more complex, more expensive or more difficult to build.
I don't have a parts list and the schematic came with the scooter motor controller. What I did was determine the size of frame that would work for my airplane, then pick a tire/wheel combo that looked suitable (on sale) and the rest are generic parts from Amazon. The motor is 24 volt so I wired 2 12v dry cell batteries in series. The motor controller, brushed motor and thumb throttle are parts from Amazon. The particular ones that I used were for 350w scooter motor and are no longer available on Amazon but there are lots of others available. If I were to make any changes I would probably go with a 450 watt motor and applicable controller because mine almost stalls out when pushing the airplane up an incline. I think if you buy a brushless motor you have to buy the brushless motor controller. I put this video on TH-cam so I could easily share it with friends that were interested in building something similar. It's not a how-to but more of an example of what you can do easily and inexpensively so if you can get some ideas from this to make your own design I'll be happy to hear about it. If you want performance and features of a Best Tug this is not going to do it.
rocclobster I’m trying the same project and have the same motor controller but mine did not come with a schematic (in English) drawing. Anyway you could post the schematic you got with the controller? As chance would have it its the same controller i have. I’m stumped on my wiring without it. Thanks muc!
@@rhr81 I don't have the schematic anymore. It was actually just one of the pictures on the Amazon item page. If you do a google search for scooter motor controller schematic and select images I think you'll find what you're looking for. They all look to be the same. There have been some people that have built these things and have had issues getting it to power up. If you are going to switch the main power line (I did it this way) instead of utilizing the power switch connector on the unit be sure to connect the 2 wires in that connector together. That will enable the box as soon as the main power switch is on.
@@rocclobster Thanks much. still stumped on my wiring and not sure why. in your second to last sentence do you mean wire the two "Key lock" wires together and use the toggle switch as the power on method you used? Also, is it important to have a 3 wire thumb throttle connected to a 3 wire speed controller connection? ie, same number of wires on the thumb throttle as the controller box has? thanks again.
@@rhr81 there's a site called electricscooterparts.com that has the same parts and everything you would need can come in a kit or you can get what you need, part by part. The advantage of the kit is everything comes labeled as to how to connect to the other parts. I'm currious...@rocclobster - what RPM is the 350W motor you used? Yes, I too am trying to duplicate what you put together. It looks pretty good to me.
www.princessauto.com/en/detail/15-x-6-00-6-turf-tire-assembly/A-p8630105e It's a 15x600-6 that I bought at Princess auto when it was on sale for 50% off. The whole thing is just a mild steel frame and you can modify it to suit your aircraft. This size wheel/tire combo worked out for this simple frame design but I'm sure you can make improvements on it pretty easily.
This looks like an excellent design. Thank you for posting. I started Googling for a motor but didn't find an applicable one yet. Will you help us by posting a parts list? Links to the parts you purchased would be invaluable.
Search for "24 or 36 volt electric chain drive motor conversion for bicycles". They run about $100 for the motor. Then you need a battery and charger. Then of course the go kart drive wheel, tubing and other stuff.
My Sons and I fabricate concepts all the time, and from that experience I can say you did a great job. Functional, inexpensive, and an exceptional appearance. As a pilot, here's my question. Some hangars, and every ramp has an incline and decline to address. On your unit, I see the go but no stop. Additionally, with motion (forward or rearward) inertia exists. I realize the motor likely has an element of resistance built in, but on the side of insurance, I'm curious what happens when you need to stop suddenly?
I have not found it to be a problem. How would you stop if you were using a hand tow bar? There is a considerable amount of resistance through the gearbox and motor so when you release the throttle it stops pretty quickly. If you have a significant incline where you tow your aircraft around I’m not sure this is a suitable design for you. Building in a brake mechanism has not been a feature that I’ve ever felt the need for in the 4 years that I’ve been using it and I often have to play airplane Tetris when I have friends’ airplanes in the hangar.
@@rocclobster When it works ... don't fix it. Using hand tow bars I can feel the inertia setting in and I always have a wheel chock to insert if necessary after applying my hand against the spinner. My concern would likely come into play with a heavier plane too.
@@richardgreen7811 this design would need some modification for airplanes heavier than a C-182 or RV-10 weight class. If I was handling Bonanza or larger I think I would consider a brake mechanism. It would also require a rethink of the structure and the drive system. This is an intentionally simple tug and works pretty well for it’s designed purpose.
I think You should add safety switch and made some cover for this gear chain. But more important thing is to always have a electric fuse in case of short circuit. Many people like to forget about this and ask why fire happened... Short circuit can happen even in best designs in worlds.
There are 2 fuses, one for the motor circuit and one for the electric actuator. Both fuses are located in the battery box. As for the cover on the chain it’s not needed. I’m the only one that uses it and when in operation I am not within reach of the drive mechanism. If you build one you’re welcome to make yourself a chain guard if you want.
@@rocclobster ok, good. However, we dont know when small accident happen, so better to be protected - just telling (one time I accidentally put sharp knife into my own leg...).
That is really nice, I'm looking at doing the same thing.
Beautiful, I would buy it from you (I suspect you have made an upgraded one already?)
@@cmjohnsondds ha. I still use it. The only change I made is I swapped the gear for a 72 tooth. I built this so it would be inexpensive and easy for others to build one for themselves.
Great project! An improvement for people who attemp to replicate your project would be to shorten the wheel axle and bring the bearings closer to the wheel.
Of course you can modify it however you see fit but I'm not sure what you would gain with your suggestion. It would require mods to the simple box frame. The goal was for it to be simple to make, inexpensive, and use readily available parts. I built this one in 2018 and use it quite a bit. To do what you suggested would require the frame to be narrower which would then require an additional mod to attach it to the airplane. I guess you could add a couple more frame pieces beside the wheel to accept the pillow blocks but that is just adds more expense, weight and additional welding for no gain in performance or practicality. There was a suggestion to go with a larger driven sprocket, 60 or 65 tooth rather than a 450w motor that I suggested in the video. That's a change that would fit with the design parameters that I set for this project and I think it would work well.
@@rocclobster As long as the axle holds up, I have nothing to say :D I had a big project being ruined by the axle being too soft and bending under load. It was terrible. I'm happy to hear that everything works fine. Great little tool!
@@karim1485 the axle is holding up well so far. There's not as much strain on it as you might think. The frame is 12" wide and the wheel is about 4 inches wide (outside to outside at the bushings). With the pillow blocks being 1" that leaves about 3 inches of unsupported axle on each side. The alxe shaft I used is a hardened steel one like this one:
www.princessauto.com/en/detail/3-4-in-x-3-ft-keyed-shaft/A-p8079733e
If you were to use a softer metal or a steel tube for an axle it might cause some issues, I don't know.
@@rocclobster Yep very much. and as you said, I was worried about these 3 inches... Glad it doesn't affect you!
@@karim1485 I think I if someone was to choose an axle that is not as strong as the one I used your suggestion might be a good solution. It could also be a less expensive option because the axle I bought was fairly pricey.
Do you Have a diagram of how to wire up & where the Thumb Throttle . Thanks
The wiring will depend on which motor controller you choose. I don’t have a wiring diagram because there are too many configurations possible.
Can u send me a schematic of your set up, the components are in Chinese
I am curious about model or specs for the linear actuator. Thanks
www.princessauto.com/12v-dc-270-lb-linear-actuators/product/PA1000001116
I used the 2” and bought it on sale for less than half of regular price.
Would changing the gear size on the wheel help with the torque needed with the smaller motor?
Yes it would help for sure. There was at least one built with a 65 tooth and it works very well for his 182. I’m considering doing the same. More torque would be nice and, with my current ratio, I have a little more speed than needed.
Where did you get handle Bar Grips with the Thumb throttle. Good Job Thanks
Amazon but another person who viewed this video has also successfully sourced parts from electricscooterparts.com/
Very nice Tug. Did your motor controller come with reverse wiring option? If not, how did you wire to reverse please
The controller has a reversing function but I didn’t use it. I used a DPDT switch and wired it to reverse the polarity on the motor. Using the controller would have been the ideal option but I didn’t realize it had that function until someone else pointed it out. The controller wiring instructions were in Chinese. I purchased my parts from eBay and Amazon but now there’s a one stop source for everything.
www.electricscooterparts.com/
Thank you
I am building a similar tug. How did you mount the electric actuator?
I took a 1”x1”x1” block of aluminum and filed it concave round so that it made a nice fitting pad between the movable shaft of the actuator and the tubing that slides in and out to grab the lugs on the wheel fork. The stationary end is just bolted to the frame of the tug.
I am very interested in building a tug similar to yours. You suggest using a 450W motor rather than a 350W motor to increase the force. But there are fewer choices for 450W motors and they are far more expensive. If you were not using full (100%) throttle you could increase the number of teeth in the wheel sprocket to gain more force and possibly still maintain the same speed. Approximately what percentage of full throttle were you using at the start of your first video? What is the gear ratio in your motor reduction gear? Also, giving us the motor manufacturer and model number might answer a lot of questions. Thank you for your help.
Under load the 350w motor and the gearing that chose provides a easy walking pace backwards at full throttle when pulling the RV-10 out of the hangar on level ground. The sprocket on the motor is a 9 tooth and the driven sprocket on the wheel is a 44. There was no documentation that came with the motor so I don’t know the reduction of the gearing in the motor’s gearbox nor do I know the rpm of the motor at full power with no load. You could use a 48 tooth and get a little lower gearing. It’s entirely possible that the 48 tooth sprocket would provide a more suitable ratio for this load but, if I was to do it again from scratch, I would just go with a more powerful motor.
@@rocclobster
Finding a suitable 450W motor for a decent price has been difficult and all the ones found have lower reduction gear ratios which defeats the purpose. If you have any suggestions please send them along. So far my best options are to stick with 350W motor and use a 60- or 72-tooth sprocket on the wheel to lower the gearing. The top speed will be 30-40% slower than yours but that probably won't be an issue.
The biggest problem I am facing is getting the #410 wheel sprocket. They are $80-95 depending on the number of teeth. I considered switching to #25 chain but the #25 motor sprockets have a D mount and the #410 is keyed so that is not an option.
How much down force do you apply to the handle to keep the wheel from slipping?
@@375tommyg www.ebay.com/itm/184273432724
@@rocclobster I found that motor, also. But the gear reduction is 7.14:1 (3000 RPM/420 RPM) while the 350W motors are 9.7:1. That becomes a break-even with torque. It would take a 60-tooth wheel sprocket to match the force of a 44-tooth sprocket with a 350W motor. More speed with the 450W but less torque. I think your original choice of 350W motor was a good choice. Just go to a larger wheel sprocket for more torque.
What size batteries did you use? I am thinking a 7.5 A-hr. That should give about 25 minutes operation time. Plenty to push in and out.
@@rocclobster Would you be open to a phone call? Let me know at tomg375 at yahoo dot com.
Question for you, is the motor actually brushless? how many wires are coming out? I am only seeing 2, is that correct?
I specifically spec’d the brushed motor MY1016Z. My apologies if I said it is a brushless, I misspoke. I also spec’d the controller for a brushed motor. There are only 2 wires coming out of the motor. BTW I also said in one of these videos that I would have went with a 450w motor. After hearing from others that decided to use a lower gear ratio with this motor, it seems that the sweet spot is a 60 tooth driven sprocket. The sprocket on the motor is a 9 tooth. A more powerful motor is unnecessary.
Thank you very much, I am currently adapting your design for my RV-6. I also did an amazon search for a brushless Motor and ordered what came up and was surprised when it arrived with only two wires. a closer look indicated that I had ordered a brushed motor. I also ordered a thumb throttle like you have but returned it as it indicated that it only worked with a hall sensor for a brushless motor. I will order another as I like it much better than the twist knob that came with the brushed motor controller. I will see how the 44 tooth sprocket I have works, my 6 is only 1072 lb. empty.
@@stevenwilkes5737 try electricscooterparts.com/
@@rocclobster Thank you Very Much!! wish I had this when I started buying parts, but the will really help me finish up, thanks!!
I’ve built a similar one, are you able to turn wheel without lifting tug up?
I don’t know if it’s possible to post a picture here but I would like to see what you built. It might also help others improve on what I have done here.
To answer your question, I don’t need to lift it up completely but it is a “skid steer”. The design concept was to make a tug that is simple to build, fairly inexpensive and allow me to move the airplane around without breaking my back. To build in an articulating feature (or functionally similar) to negate having to relieve down pressure in order to allow it to skid steer is certainly possible but not as simple. There are many ways to improve on this very rudimentary design but I haven’t come up with anything that didn’t make it more complex, more expensive or more difficult to build.
Do you know what rpm of the sprocket on the motor is ?
The motor is a MY1016Z and the rated speed is 400rpm at 24v with no load.
Excellent work… however, that’s not a brushless motor
Thanks and you are correct. That was corrected in the posts here.
Any chance you have an electrical schematic or parts list?
I don't have a parts list and the schematic came with the scooter motor controller. What I did was determine the size of frame that would work for my airplane, then pick a tire/wheel combo that looked suitable (on sale) and the rest are generic parts from Amazon. The motor is 24 volt so I wired 2 12v dry cell batteries in series. The motor controller, brushed motor and thumb throttle are parts from Amazon. The particular ones that I used were for 350w scooter motor and are no longer available on Amazon but there are lots of others available. If I were to make any changes I would probably go with a 450 watt motor and applicable controller because mine almost stalls out when pushing the airplane up an incline. I think if you buy a brushless motor you have to buy the brushless motor controller. I put this video on TH-cam so I could easily share it with friends that were interested in building something similar. It's not a how-to but more of an example of what you can do easily and inexpensively so if you can get some ideas from this to make your own design I'll be happy to hear about it. If you want performance and features of a Best Tug this is not going to do it.
rocclobster I’m trying the same project and have the same motor controller but mine did not come with a schematic (in English) drawing. Anyway you could post the schematic you got with the controller? As chance would have it its the same controller i have. I’m stumped on my wiring without it. Thanks muc!
@@rhr81 I don't have the schematic anymore. It was actually just one of the pictures on the Amazon item page. If you do a google search for scooter motor controller schematic and select images I think you'll find what you're looking for. They all look to be the same. There have been some people that have built these things and have had issues getting it to power up. If you are going to switch the main power line (I did it this way) instead of utilizing the power switch connector on the unit be sure to connect the 2 wires in that connector together. That will enable the box as soon as the main power switch is on.
@@rocclobster Thanks much. still stumped on my wiring and not sure why. in your second to last sentence do you mean wire the two "Key lock" wires together and use the toggle switch as the power on method you used? Also, is it important to have a 3 wire thumb throttle connected to a 3 wire speed controller connection? ie, same number of wires on the thumb throttle as the controller box has? thanks again.
@@rhr81 there's a site called electricscooterparts.com that has the same parts and everything you would need can come in a kit or you can get what you need, part by part. The advantage of the kit is everything comes labeled as to how to connect to the other parts. I'm currious...@rocclobster - what RPM is the 350W motor you used? Yes, I too am trying to duplicate what you put together. It looks pretty good to me.
What size tire did you use ?
www.princessauto.com/en/detail/15-x-6-00-6-turf-tire-assembly/A-p8630105e
It's a 15x600-6 that I bought at Princess auto when it was on sale for 50% off. The whole thing is just a mild steel frame and you can modify it to suit your aircraft. This size wheel/tire combo worked out for this simple frame design but I'm sure you can make improvements on it pretty easily.
BTW Princess auto in Canada is similar to Harbor Freight in the US.
Nice... since you're very good about spending money I'm curious how much does the plane cost you. Purchase and operation. The whole nine yards
Less than half as much as a cirrus.
Hi,
Can I ask what is the RPM on the motor?
Thanks.
The motor is a MY1016Z. No load rpm is 3000 at 24v. Gear ratio is 9.7:1.