I found it hilarious that her big plan was to be evil and kill people (implied) for years causing mass amounts of harm all so she could 'get close' to Vader and betray him, but her big plan wasn't to wait until he was weak or to poison him or something but just to run at him from behind, yelling so he knew she was coming... like what!? she didn't need to be grand inquisitor to pull that plan off, or even be any inquisitor at all
We even see on the show how she would kill an innocent man in cold blood. Reva is no different than the other dark force users. OK, she's probably even more murderous than these, apart from Vader. As you say, her plan doesn't make sense. She doesn't lead him into a trap, just attacks him from behind. She could have done that much earlier. What is also not explained is why she survived as an initiate, or how she survived in the end. Why is she manipulating the robot when she couldn't have expected Leia to be rescued? She is not Xanatos. And she ends up wanting to kill Luke for justice? What justice? Reva is a horrible person. She killed who knows how many people and then should she be forgiven for all that because a child reminds her of her dead friends? Kenobi might be able to forgive her as a Jedi, OK, but why should the viewer do that? She didn't do anything to deserve this. And not killing someone is definitely not a reason. Reva is objectively poorly written on several points, as is the series itself.
@@Jasmin-lg3gf Ok thanks for the reassurance, the video's intro had me doubting myself. I'm really annoyed by how he starts the video saying he's going to refute the "Bad Faith arguments " made against Reva, only to argue that she's not poorly written in Bad Faith.
How could she have gotten Vader alone in a room if she wasn't an inquisitor? Also she's driven by rage so she was overtaken by rage when she had Vader turned around. You say it's bad writing but it's all driven by her character.
@@kinoko5566 On top of that, I would argue that people who say that it doesn't make sense for a rage-filled, nonsensical, narrow minded character to act out of a narrow-minded, rage-filled, and nonsensical way. It's true that there are problems with the show. The aforementioned issues of how a kid could survive getting stabbed with a plasma weapon in the gut or how the same person as an adult could survive the same hit AGAIN certainly need a bit more explanation that it was given and I would say there are other points in the show that could've used better padding or long exposure to make more sense out of it. That being said, I think I'm going to agree with Pillar of Garbage when he said that, in his opinion, the Third Sister's arc is one that is needed and is, for better or worse, a well organized story. No, the show wasn't perfect, but it doesn't seem fair to ask it to be either.
@@mr.badwolf7356 technically we already had examples for how she would survive a light saber stab as a youngling in both legends and Disney that being said if you are going to do something like that then you should give people a reminder as people won't always remember something like that, especially since the previous examples wheren't as apart of the story as Reva's is.
If you’re still interested, I believe I can provide a clearer explanation of Reva’s writing problems than your previous commenters. To make sure I’m absolutely clear, my definition of “bad writing” is when the narrative is inconsistent, or when character motivations don’t make sense or are poorly explained/conveyed. You said Reva went after Luke in order to draw out Obi-Wan. You made that up. The show never explained why Reva wanted to kill Luke. This is the first I’ve heard of your interpretation. I assumed at first that she was trying to get revenge on Vader by proxy, but then I realized Bail Organa never mentioned Luke’s parentage, so Reva shouldn’t know about it. When Owen asks Reva why she’s doing this, she just says “justice,” and that’s all the explanation we get. I don’t think your guess is right because if she wanted to draw out Obi Wan, it would make more sense to take Luke hostage, not kill him. Reva is at the climax of her arc and we don’t even know why she’s doing what she’s doing. That’s a writing problem. Furthermore, Reva being unable to go through with the deed is inconsistent. The Reva we have seen up to that point has been portrayed without a shred of humanity. She has been nothing but bloodthirsty and cruel. While we are technically never shown or told of any Jedi Reva has personally killed, but she presumably had to have killed some in order to reach the position she’s in. And she doesn’t hesitate to threaten or kill civilians to draw out Jedi, or cut off people’s hands just for talking back. I could suppose that killing Luke was a step too far because she had never killed a child before, but, similar to what I said above, that would be something I made up. Nothing in the shows tells us that. And if that was the writer’s intention, it’s undercut by Reva seeming to have no qualms with torturing a little girl two episodes earlier.
@@PillarofGarbage OK, I see where you’re coming from and I could see that being the explanation. I still think you’re filling in some significant gaps with your own ideas. If the writers meant for Reva to be seeking revenge against both Vader and the Jedi, I don’t think they communicated that as well as they should have. They’re not helped by the fact that a grudge against the Jedi would be completely irrational on Reva’s part. Having a grudge against Kenobi makes a little more sense, but again, it wasn’t clear that she would want to hurt him if it didn’t help her get closer to Vader. I maintain that Reva’s motivation was poorly communicated. Of course, I’m speaking from memory several weeks after watching the series, so it’s possible I missed/forgot something.
@@DuneStone6816 why would reva have a grudge against obi wan for something anakin did it’s not like obj wan was around to stop him she knows about order 66 and and has access to the “Jedi archives” as she said so herself when she figured out organa’s connection to obj wan so she must’ve known he was off world during the attack on the Jedi temple so why be mad at him it makes no sense
@@PillarofGarbage This reminds me of Star Trek: Discovery. Literally the same issues where Michael Burnham is labeled a Mary-Sue. However, in S1, they showed you ALL her flaws: she's self righteous, biased, a-social know it all due to her Vulcan upbringing but she loses everything in the first 2 episodes. It takes 3 seasons for her to climb back to No.1/ Captain. She's never rewarded but was saved twice by Captain Lorca (a straight WHITE man) and mentored by Sarek (a straight WHITE man). This show never bashes white men, it just doesn't center around straight white men. In fact Season 1 seems like an isolated anthology story. I thought there would be a new protagonist every season with Pike featuring for most of the season as Captain of Discovery.
Reva had not been portrayed “without a shred of humanity.” Episode 4 has issues, but it *does* give us an opportunity to see Reva’s softer side through her interactions with Leia. Sure, it ends with her trying to torture the information out of Leia, but again - that’s part of the interesting complexity of her character. She has genuinely given into the dark side, and only at the end, when she finds herself trying to kill an innocent child, is she able to look at herself and decide that enough is enough.
First off: It's a little offputting to say that others are acting in bad faith and trying to hide their racism and don't know what they are talking about, and more or less painting all criticism of the character as racist. I haven't watched the show. And I have no intention of either. Mostly because sources I trust aren't giving it a good review, and I'm sick of prequels. But I'd like to make one point here about an issue I have with modern writing: They put the cart before the horse. I will use an example of one of my favorite villains in sci-fi: Char Aznable in Gundam. I pick him because he too holds a grudge against the Zeons current rules who killed his father to grab power. Over the course of the show we see how Char has positioned himself to kill off the whole dynasty of the rulers. Although in the first episode, that's less than 30 minutes. We are only introduced to the mysterious Char wearing a cool red uniform and rides the Red Zaku where everyone else is green. He's the Red Comet, an obvious Red Baron reference. He's cool, calculated and capable. And yet a seed of the mystery is planted in that first episode by another character who calls him "Casval" and "my brother." Indicating that there's some reason why Char wears his mask, and a deeper story to him. The horse is infront of the cart. Char is more than meets the eye, the odd outfit isn't just to look cool. (Actually they don't explain that until a much much later prequel series, one of the few prequels I personally think lifted the original story.) And yet, for Reva this video is telling be "oh it's all part of the plan, just keep watching." That right there is proof of bad writing, the cart is in front of the horse. The writer thinks you will watch the whole story, so they treat it like a movie. That's a mistake. You have one episode to make your case. If people don't like a character by the credits enough to keep watching, you failed. Especially if it's not a show I can binge watch. You expect me to care in a week? That's what *I* mean when *I* say poorly written. It's poorly written from a conceptual stage. If you want the character's motivations to be hidden, then hide it. Don't hint at it at all in the first episode. What is the character trying to be? That's what I need to be drawn into. If it's ment to be a mystery or deeper complexity to the character then you need to present this early on. If you ask me, the scene with the Younglings should maybe have been in the first episode. I think that would work better for the character. Let us think that many younglings were indoctrinated to be inquisitors. It seems like Reva is a character we are supposed to be feeling some sympathy for? Well why isn't that made abundantly clear in the first episode? If it's supposed to be a mystery, then you need to go the Char route, show that she's a renegde, but stil la damn good soldier. Reva comes off as a lower rank goon. Of all the "we made another Darth Vader clones" out there she seemed the less intimidating. Which is another issue. On the surface she looks like nothing new. We have seen angry person in black be the villain in Star Wars spin-offs before. Even THAT is bad writing. Sure her backstory is cool, but backstory isn't what we see in promotions and how she's presented in the first episode. And that IS bad writing. Either I should care about the villain as is, like Darth Vader, or I need to know they are "complex" very early on, like Char and Kylo Ren. What I don't need is a character that comes off as something that's not appealing, and then be told that "oh she get's better later, it's complex" Why not be good from the first episode. It doesn't take much honestly. If somethings supposed to be "mysterious" then make damn sure people KNOW that. From what I can tell Reva in the first episode isn't presented as such. Especially for Star Wars which have been on very shaky ground for so long many of us aren't really willing to invest in "it's okay, maybe it get's better." When... many of the times it didn't. The Sequels went from bad to worse. The Mandalorian was awesome, but The Book of Boba Fet seems to have failed to understand what made the Mandalorian good.
You haven't even seen the show and yet you were so unsettled by the topic of this video that you felt compelled to respond w an irrelevant essay (yknow, since you haven't watched the show in question)? 🤣😭 If that's not evidence of the exact ignorant vitriol Pillar of Garbage is referencing, I don't know what is lol. Thanks for proving his point
Originally this WAS supposed to be a movie. Reva was pretty darn cool but the pacing in this show was all over the place. That said.... it's actually kind of worth it just to get to the final two episodes. But yes there are some big problems and even bigger missed opportunities.... but it's way better than AotC or RotS. TPM still kicks ass.
@@philosopher9672 I completely disagree. And I laid it out in my answer. The main reason I wrote it is because he branded almost every critic of Reva as a racist, which you parot. And yet his whole argument is "it get's better later" My argument is: You do not have "later," you only have now. First you need to capture peoples attention and imagination with the trailers, and then with the first episode. Star Wars as an IP is on shaky ground when it comes to quality, so the trailers and first episode has to be TOP NOTCH to get people like me to watch. Even then you need to have good reviews, and not this sort of "you are racist for not liking her" stuff. The Mandalorian had all that. This show? Not so much.
@@IDieHardForever I still wonder if I would have been sold enough on her from the trailers, something about her compared to the other Inquisitors just feels off. But, at least you'd probably reduce the now created tension of "but it get's better" It's that attitude that you just can't have with modern streaming. It works for Star Trek TNG and DS9 etc, because those were serialized, and people would one day maybe tune in to some random episode and be hooked, even though the first episode was bad. But modern series are built from you watching from the start, but the start needs to be good. (Heck that's why pilot episodes used to be higher production value in the past as well) When people fail to understand the characters motivations, or mistake the actors delivery, then it's not really well crafted is it?
I would estimate it’s more of an issue of bad writing as a whole. When writing characters you need character consistency across the story as the story adjusts to your character. Bad writing comes in when writers compromise the characters development so the plot can happen. If you establish your character is intelligent and resourceful but in order for the plot to progress your character becomes oblivious and dumb for that one scene then the next is back to being intelligent and resourceful you’ve broken your character. Long story short: if your having to constantly flip-flop a character back and forth in your story to make your plot work then you should probably take a second look at your plot.
Mate plenty of people have called out the poor writing of the prequel series. Especially all the cringe that was the Anakin and Padme romance. There is no hypocrisy here.
I might like the prequel movies but, I can't ignore the inconsistencies of the writing. I feel that the point POG was making here only comes down too. "It's your opinion but, your racist if your opinion is different from mine." With plenty of mental gymnastics and cherry-picking comments from his previous video (That probably did answer his questions on why the writing is poor but let's forget about it anyway.) Followed by poop emoji.
And there are plenty of people who do NOT believe the Prequel Trilogy was badly written. If you want to point out those who didn't like the Prequel Trilogy . . . fine. But is it that impossible for you to acknowledge there are those who are big fans of that trilogy? Hell, I don't like the Sequel Trilogy. But I refuse to pretend that everyone disliked it. Because I know that is not true.
@@juanitajones6900 What are you trying to argue here? People also liked Kenobi. The video is trying to discredit the criticisms toward Reva and Kenobi by claiming the Prequels didn't get the same criticism for the same issues when they did.
@@reggaemarley4617 I know that there are people who liked or loved "Obi-Wan Kenobi". But those who didn't, either claim that no one did or tend to express vague or unsupported reasons why they didn't.
Right so she spends a decade hurting and murdering innocent people, to ultimately get revenge on Vader (for doing the evil things that she is currently doing), but she also hates the Jedi (for fighting and dying trying to protect her and the other younglings) which makes a lot of sense. Then the moment she decides not to murder Luke (who she doesn't know anything about), she fully redeems herself for all the atrocities she's committed. This was very deep and not at all predictable. There certainly weren't any youtubers who predicted this exact set of events before the first episode even premiered.
@@hefoughtabear118 I guess? Doesn't seem super relevant. We're talking about current Disney/Star Wars's flagship show, and the main antagonists entire arch not only was accurately predicted by many people before it even aired, but made no fucking sense "Have I become him?" "Lmao wut...? you've been a wannabe Vader for years now. You hurt and kill innocents for ur own gain. What are u talking about..."
@@tonytheoni like I said, being predictable doesnt lend to being a bad thing as many have predicted the entirety of the mandalorian for example. Also we dont actually know what Revas done during her time as an inquisitor
"That would make her the one thing she spent her life trying to destroy..." She literally has killed and aided the killing of hundreds of Jedi and civilians. I hate how all criticism is deflected by saying that all the criticisms are racially charged attacks. That is the MINORITY of opinions. You ignore all of the valid criticisms in service of the actually racist opinions. Edit: As well as that, you go on to say that the opinions about the writing of the show is entirely subjective, but you never once throughout the video seem to follow this idea. You claim that the writing is "good", but never mention anyone's actual greviences against the giant plot holes in the story and inconsistent character beats.
while there are character inconsistencies, and maybe plot holes (however much that really matters to Star Wars), his point is that her critics are sometimes outwardly racist, and sometimes reaching for things to complain about. There are worse written Star Wars inquisitors, but people don't seem to complain about the grand inquisitor or the 7th sister and fifth brother. Those inquisitors are less intimidating, less interesting, poorly developed, and basically gimmicky stormtroopers. When the haters don't like Reva because she has "bad dialogue", "screams weird" or "knows Anakin is Vader", they aren't addressing topics that are big deals. Instead, they are focusing on minor issues that, while they're, do not matter. Do not pretend that Reva is a bad villain by Star Wars standards. You are allowed to complain about her, but then do not turn around and talk about how much you love the prequels, sequels, or Rebels when they have the same issues, but magnified. PS: race is most likely brought up because the actress received slurs in her dm's.
@@hughmcmahon1895 Not at all denying the fact that there are incredibly racist bigots out there, and that her character specifically received hate for things that are ridiculous. What I'm trying to say is that this video fails to at all mention the valid criticisms, and only really addresses that side of the story. And I personally think this show and this new Era of star wars has been mediocre and terrible in some aspects as a whole, and Reva isn't the only example of bad writing.
@@hughmcmahon1895 I also think that the character got a lot of flack because she serves as basically the main antagonist in the show. While there are worse inquisitors, she gets a massive amount of screen time, and that makes for a messy show due to the character writing and inconsistencies, at least for me.
She never killed children though. That was the last line she couldn't cross. Notice how she acts when she decides to torture Leia. She starts whining and justifying it to herself. It's clear that children are her last straw.
Subjectivity is the death of all reality. Pillar of Garbage is a blind man, because Reva DOES have objectively bad writing. The ENTIRE SHOW has objectively bad writing, and there's PROOF of that. I'm so sick of people defending bad things for the sake of "opinion". Like, sure you can like it, but you can't say that it's good just because you do. Subjectivity is a plague on the freedom of fact, and facts don't care about one's feelings. And the fact of the matter is, Reva with the way she was written, was and is a BAD character. So much potential just nerfed.
My issues with Reva from a writing perspective: 1) Knowing what we do about Reva, why is she so maliciously evil to the point the other inquisitors need to tell her to calm down? She cuts a woman's hand off, threatens to kill Owen and his family, presumably hangs a jedi, presumably is involved in the hunting of those other jedi in fortress inquisitorous, tries to kill luke, tries to kill obi-wan. A response I got to this from another commenter was..."I wouldn’t say Reva was “maliciously evil.” She shows sympathy towards Leia when she’s holding Leia prisoner. However, she is single-minded and ruthless in her pursuit of revenge, and that leads to her doing whatever is necessary to move forward with her goals, lashing out at anything between her and her endgame of killing Vader." I responded back with..."It doesn't explain why she would help vader kill other jedi. She is angry at vader for killing her friends mentors so why would she do exactly what he is doing. It makes no sense and doesn't show any self awareness until the end when she realises "oh my god im just like vader by killing this kid" terrible writing. A better option would be if she was actually helping jedi escape vader but in ways that still made her look competent at her job. Maybe she is very good at finding them and capturing them but always leaves a way for them to escape when under watch of the other inquisitors." 2)How does Reva survive a lightsaber to the stomach twice? 3)If the grand inquisitor didn't die, wouldn't Reva now be seen as a traitor? Why do vader and the other inquisitors allow her to continue doing what she does? 4)Why wouldn't vader make sure Reva is dead after he stabs her knowing who she is and knowing she has already survived the same injury? 5)Why doesn't Reva read Owen's mind in episode 1 6)How is reva redeemed by not killing Luke when she was the one putting him in danger in the first place? 7)why has reva never tried to kill vader before the end of episode 5? 8)why does she sneak up on vader only after the ship escapes and he is no longer distracted? 9) how did reva get ahead of leia in the secret tunnel? 10)why does reva try to kill luke? 11)how did reva get off the planet in episode 5 after the empire and resistance leave? I would also like to point out that none of these criticisms has to do with the actor's race or gender and are based solely on the writing of the show.
don't bother, he can't answer them and you'll only end up being called a racist, sexist, nitpicker, fandom menace or whatever else. There is no good defense for the show, and problems related to Reva are minor when compared to stuff between Knob and Vader or the full structure of the show. It's all rotten.
@@miqvPL I don't think you give Pillar enough credit. I'm confident that he will be able to respond with respect and appropriateness. Personally, I don't think that any defense can stand against my criticisms but that is for others to try and change my mind as well as I theirs.
@@armoredghost918 oh, not by him, by star wars fans mostly. It's easy to pick on star wars "haters", but I find the star wars defenders to be the most toxic part of the fanbase. Especially the person in charge of SW twitter account.
A lot of these feel like general criticisms on the show's writing, not exactly criticisms of Reva's character. Small plot inconsistencies or unanswered questions that have little to do with her character arc. And a few of those questions are a little bit irrelevant. Like, I don't think the method Reva used to fly to Tatooine is the most important question to spend precious time answering.
@@matti.8465 Admittedly a bunch of those are general criticisms of the show's writing but they are my issues surrounding Reva and they are relevant. From a writing perspective it is important understanding how a person gets from point A to point B. Regarding Reva's transport it opens up many questions: Did the empire leave her a ship? Unlikely now that she is seen as a traitor and Vader tried to kill her. Did the rebels leave a ship? Unlikely again as why wouldn't they use that in their escape? Did she find a random port miles away? Maybe, who knows? An example of this done well in another movie was in Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl. In this movie two of the main characters are marooned on an island. One of the characters cleverly figures out a way to signal for help. Those who come to the rescue then have an important part in the third act of the film. This accomplishes how the main characters are able to get back into a story logically and shows the intelligence of the characters.
The problems I have with Reva are 2: 1. Her plan to became an Inquisitor to kill Vader is just nonsense. The way it is tought and executed makes it a bad plan. Why taking revenge on someone because he killed everyone you loved by enetring a group of people that essetially lives to kill? Why attack Vader after a battle when he can hear you coming and not during one, or sneak up in his room, on kill him when he is on the bridge? 2. the decision to kill luke. Why would she try to kill Luke? Does she know he is the son of Anakin, and even why would she thnk that Vader knows it? Is it for Obi-Wan? Why? She has beef with Vader not Obi-Wan, the enteirity of the "catch Obi-Wan thing was to get close to Vader.
The fact she waits 10 years, killing more of her former fellow jedi in the meantime, then finally makes an attempt on Vader... and it's not even when he's properly distracted... it's just the worst. She does it when she does only for the sake of the show's structure, not because it made a lick of sense strategically.
As for why attack Vader, I feel like this could've been easily fixed. Instead of the two escaping ship ruse, just have it so that Reva attacks him while he's holding their ship, and her attack is what makes him lose focus and lets them escape.
@@reek4062 Anakin. Ahsoka. Rex. Fives. Kanan. Trilla. Luke. These I think really well-written charachters. If you have arguments I will be happy to hear them.
Reva: “I will avenge the dead younglings by siding with the people that killed them while actively engaging in murder of innocents” Reva: “killing Owen’s child will solve all my problem”
Her writing was not perfect but her writing is pretty much equal to most central characters in the show. So her being the most criticized is kind of telling… Edit: I’m condemning the explicit racist criticism given to her character, if you yourself did not like the character for completely understandable reasons then I’m not talking about you.
She wasn't the most criticized, but the situation was so widely covered that it seems bigger and wider scale than it actually was. The few racist comments do not reflect the entire fandom, nor should we assume it does.
@@jakarisoolive3841 and that’s your opinion. I’m not trying to insinuate that her race is the exclusive reason she’s flawed character wise although I see why you would think that’s what I meant. She has been the bud of many criticisms that are racially charged which is what I’m condemning. Not the people who hate her for understandable reasons.
@@AnthonyBurton I mean, she definitely does have character development so that's a weird, not to mention inaccurate thing to say. A character doesn't go from murderous to remorseful without development, they even spell it out for you.
Reva actually fits perfectly into Kenobi's arc in the show. Him going from being too stuck in his regret that he couldn't save Anakin, to being willing and brave enough to move forward and save others. On a literal level, saving Reva redeems that his failure to save Anakin. And on a thematic level, her having to be pulled away from her vengeful fixation on Anakin to realize that it's hurting others, mirrors Kenobi's arc. But people say she's "shoe-horned" because they didn't want to see her saved. They wanted her put in her place... because they're racist. Edit: Looking through this comment section and.. Jesus media literacy is fucked.
My problem was that I called Reva's backstory from the very first scene in the show. "Oh, she's a surviving Youngling and she's undercover to get Vader." I was hoping there'd be some kind of swerve, like it was her CHILD that was a Youngling and killed by Vader, which would have made her a bit more sympathetic, I think. And they could have played the parent-child relationship against Obi-Wan and Leia, or Owen/Beru and Luke. But nope, it was exactly as I had guessed, and the direction, the acting, the writing simply couldn't add more dramatic dimensions to it than were immediately evident to me.
@@Warriorten10 Then why did the show act all coy about it? When Obi-Wan pieces it together, it's played like some big revelation, but that's only to HIM, not the audience. Like I said, I expected at least some kind of swerve in the mix, but no... it was exactly as it was presented, but they tried to have their cake and eat it too by playing it all mysterious.
Unlike the majority of the fanbase, I never had problem with Jar Jar and didnt even seen anyone being hateful to the actor. But I can understand why they think and feel that this comic relief character was just too annoying for them. The very important thing that Pillar left out that the actor multiple times clarified that the harrasment was from the Media critics, not from the star wars fans. And, I never heard someone criticize him because he is black, many people didnt even knew that the actor is black, but still criticized Jar Jar the character. Or there is Rose Tico, I personally didnt liked her character. She was very badly written and uninteresting, who is just doing stupid things and have cringe lines. The casino planet plot was totally pointless and unnecessary, what just can be cut out of the movie. Then her character becomes totally idiotic and prevents Finn's sacrifice moment, despite knowing that the First Order just will kill them and the remained Resistance. And in the end the writers finished this poor character with one of the most cringe lines in the entire star wars, whats in that scene was totally ruined her. But criticising that this is a bad character makes you a racist I guess, Disney said so. The problem is that Disney Star Wars and some fans like Pillar would take these characters and hold them up as some trump card against the valid criticism. Disney itself constantly bringing up and focus on the race and gender of these characters to virtue signal how progressive they are, then use their race and gender as an excuse why the "'racist & sexist fans" dont like them. They declare that its just simply cant be that these are poorly written characters, and every criticism must be because racism, sexism, etc. Pilllar said and implied multiple times in this video that if you criticise these characters its "might" be because you are just manipulated by extremist Right-wing propaganda or you unconsciously are a racist and all this rhetoric. These people are the ones, who feel the need and wants to make this a racism issue, because its so much easier to win a debate when you label everyone with criticism as a racist or unconsciously racist.
Ah yes, I remember in the early aughts sending hate mail and death threats to that guy whose face and name I never knew because... I was slightly annoyed by Jar Jar. Probably the stupidest myth these people ever came up with.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS Thank you. I don't know about everybody else. but I sure as hell didn't know what the skin color the actor was. Jar jar was clumsy and stupid. And I think some fans would have been able to look past that, If he was at least useful.
eeh, he said that his point isnt that "everyone who express criticism to Reva, or "diverse" character is racist by default" He literally said that there is a racist side that contaminated the popular criticism, and yes, Disney is a Shit company that does the bare minimum to get money, and one of the strategies is to make themselfs look good, is with bare bone diverse characters. The problem is, when instead of directing the bad stuff to the lazyness of the company, they start focus on the "diverse" aspects, intead of "do diversity but build something cool about it" ended up being "Diversity bad". And yes, the generalization doesnt help. Going back to pillar is, as far i understod, the "criticism" would be ok if it wast just "she doest fit" but "they didnt succeed making her a full character, per their intentions in the narrative". Or something, sorry mi english is shit.
watching this and realising almost every single point made in this video played out for the acolyte, as well as the fact that it didn't have a ewan mcgregor to force disney to defend their actors is really upsetting. And to pour salt into the wound the show got cancelled despite how much a second season would have benefited it.
The person at 17:48 is not being nonsensical when they say the story is supposed to be about Kenobi. It becomes nonsense if you bizarrely take that to mean his character is the only one allowed to be on screen, but the point is that Obi-Wan should be what the story revolves around. Reva does not revolve around Obi-Wan. Reva's center of gravity is Anakin and her past, and how Obi-Wan factors into her story is entirely tangential. Likewise, how Reva factors into Obi-Wan's also lacks substantive character interaction. And if Obi-Wan Kenobi was supposed to be about Obi-Wan, that's the grounds by which you can say Reva was shoehorned it. Because her arc and his both play out entirely independent of who the other is.
Yeah, I disagree strongly. A key area of old man Kenobi’s character the show explored was the guilt and shame he felt due to his perceived failings in the past - a sense of responsibility for Anakin and what kinda seems like Order 66 survivor’s guilt being two of this focus’ major prongs. Both of these pressures pushing Ben down converge in Reva - who sees her current state/childhood fate as resulting directly from these two things - order 66 + Anakin’s turn. By bringing Reva into conflict with Kenobi, the show is able to ask how responsible Kenobi was for the unintended consequences of his actions (and inactions), and to ask if this blame can be mitigated by new, ongoing efforts for good. This, of course, is developed nicely in the Kenobi/Vader rematch, with Vader reframing Anakin’s death and claiming the responsibility/agency for this development - and also in Kenobi’s initial reluctance and eventual acquiescence to helping Tala and co.
On a character level Reva was not in conflict with Obi-Wan. She was in conflict with Vader. Her involvement with Obi-Wan was rooted purely in tactical consideration: what Obi-Wan meant to Vader, not what Obi-Wan meant to her. And what he meant to her is nothing, as far as we could tell. In the same way Han Solo meant nothing to Vader when Vader froze him in carbonite. It could have been Mace Windu or Oppo Rancisis and her arc would have played out the same way, save that it's Vader's connection to Obi-Wan that makes the plot. As for Obi-Wan's end of the relationship, the pressures you identify converge in Vader, not Reva. Obi-Wan's arc is about spiritual rejuvenation. Which moment can you point to where who Reva is as a character impacted Obi-Wan's development along that path? Again, I'm talking about on a character level, not mere plot. To go back to Han Solo and Vader: Han shooting Vader's fighter out of the trench didn't establish a connection between their two characters. Obviously Reva was responsible for a number of plot advancements, such as when she revealed to him that Vader was still alive. But his subsequent emotional reaction wasn't to her character, it was to Anakin's. When did who she was as a person connect and engage with Obi-Wan? The very end, maybe, after both of their arcs had already been resolved separately from each other. She redeemed herself without any help from Obi-Wan, he restored himself without any help from her.
Honestly, as much as I want to see your opinion as reasonable, I just don't see any of the things you are talking about. You keep referring to Reva's redemption arc as if it was foreshadowed or well set up, but I can't see a hint of that. Up until episode five, she is an unrepentantly evil, violent sociopath, WHO TORTURES 11 YEAR OLD KIDS, and lives in a fortress with pickled younglings. She cuts off hands for talking back to her, kills and threatens without hesitation, attempts to kill her commanders so she can move up the ranks. She acts like a textbook power hungry Sith for the entire show, showing no compassion or remorse at all. You can't just suddenly say "Well she just wants to avenge the younglings" when she has been doing exactly what Vader did. If she didn't try to torture Laia and was portrayed as being a bit less egger to do horrible things to literally anyone, than that would have been effective foreshadowing/setup, suggesting there is more to Reva than is immediately visible. But seeing as that was not done, and much of her motivations, such as why she tried to kill Luke in the last episode, where never explained. I'm sorry, but that's objectively terrible writing. They tried to make her menacing but didn't succeed. They tried to make her a redeemed character, but utterly failed, cuz not committing one murder of an innocent child does not absolve you of all the others. I can't see that as anything other than a character who had a lot of potential but was written abysmally. Just because a lot of people in your comments section could not explain this does not mean the writing is actually good. It just means many don't bother to think for themselves. And no, this is not about racism, black characters like Mace Windu and Lando are fan favorites to this day, so to say that we are hating on a good character purely for her skin color is simple BS.
Reva didn't have bad writing, the hole show had it. One full series dedicated to "expand" Obi Wan's lore didn't add anything of value, also introduced some elements that one could argue breaks continuity.
I don't generally go all grammar police on comments, but in this case I think it is appropriate. As you cannot even write a comment on a video on the internet without making completely elementary writing errors, I find that you are completely unqualified to determine "bad" writing. Hole - a noun that refers to an opening in something. Like a hole in your pants or a hole in the road. Whole - a noun, adjective, or adverb that refers to something being or becoming complete and/or restored.
@@VinnyVidiVintage not being english my first language I deeply appreciate the analysis on the grammar. As for the qualifications needed to give an opinion... I hope it's a light joke and not a lame attempt on what young people call "bait" lmao
@@VinnyVidiVintage Look at you, acting as if someone can't have an opinion because a small grammatical error thats not in their native language. Goofy ahh boy
reva literally just shows up at the end to try and kill luke skywalker for no reason. and more importantly, does anyone remember when getting stabbed with a lightsaber was a bad thing? and on a third note, her sole purpose in star wars is to insult the fans and call them racist.
@@lunakingsley.7247 You could have chosen Athena or something cool for your feminine moonchild name but I'm guessing you felt "called" to give yourself the most common new-age BS imaginable after your reiki master told you that the crystals from Lumeria, seconded by bigfoot and Sophia said "Luna.... and her true name is Luna". Hey you wanted to play so let's play.
Honestly, I agree with most of what you’ve said. The character does get an undeserved amount of hate but i do think bad writing did affect the perception of her character for long time fans it just wasn’t her that had the bad writing. There are a handful of things that we know about the Inquisitors and they tried to make her an exception to all of it which makes her feel out of place in the show. For example, the Inquisitors do not have names but Reva does. Every one of them is referred to by a number with the exception of the High Inquisitor. This is meant to dehumanize them both in universe and to the audience. These killers aren’t the men and women who Palpatine had captured for Vader’s Inquisition, they are the the tools forged through torture and nurtured by hatred. They also made numerous references of her joining as something voluntary instead of it being no choice at all. And with your point of Reva playing the character of an Inquisitor. I agree whole heartedly and there were little things that could have helped clear that up. Like showing doubt in a quiet moment after mauling a civilian, a moment of weakness after strapping Leia to the torture machine, or her looking at the frozen youngling. I think in screen writers tried to sell her too hard as genuine threat instead of showing us that there was something deeper there.
Agreed. This lack of conflict with her own actions made her a generic villian..villain... not somebody to empathize with... this making her actions at the end feel discongruent
I’m going to guess that we’ll get some kind of explanation for a lot of Reva’s quirks in supplementary materials, and then a bunch of the fans will pretend that those details fleshed out after the fact make up for the shortcomings and holes in the writing of the show. (Disclaimer: I loved this show, liked Reva, but it’s not perfect.) we’ve been playing this game with Star Wars since the EU in the days of the OT, and particularly since the prequels. I am a bit puzzled by people suddenly being *this* up in arms about such relatively minor continuity quirks when… pretty much the whole series has been plagued with these things. I’ll criticize all of it, but I still love Star Wars.
@@MaleusMaleficarum her arc could have been improved simply by shuffling around a lot of the moments that were already there in the story. I understand having Luke in danger near the end made sense to raise the stakes the highest from an outsider’s perspective, but I think that should have happened earlier. This requires imagining the whole plot playing out in a very different order, but imagine Reva tries to kill Luke, realizes she can’t do it, THEN you see the reveal that she was an Order 66 survivor. Then that moves to her attempted confrontation with Kenobi, who then has justification to see there’s still good in her… then Reva turns on Vader outright, deliberately protecting the Jedi Underground Railroad in the process. She’s reasonably more redeemed, played out in that order. Perhaps then we even see Obi-Wan rescue her, we tie up the loose ends there (so Disney gets to keep her alive to keep putting her in movies and shows for the next 300 years,) and then that leads into the final Vader vs. Kenobi confrontation.
On your point about dropping hints of her true intentions one could argue that the reason she doesn’t have moments that you described is because she has gone so far down the path of revenge and the dark side that she has become the very person she hated and swore to destroy. Her actions taken against Leia and the innocents she harms she reveal that she was becoming more like Vader.
This show was so bad as a whole, Reva was just major part The writing was so dumb, they turned Obi Wan into a bumbling idiot and Reva was easily one of the worst villains I’ve ever seen in all the star wars media I’ve experienced. And that’s just the surface stuff
Granted this is just my 0.02 cent opinion, but the mental gymnastics In order to explain and justify Revas character in a mediocre show is quite remarkable. The show’s plot is just not satisfying as part of the entire SW storyline. Reva is a supporting character. Nothing against Moses Ingram…. Just doesn’t make sense that you’re mortally stabbed by a lightsaber and then you just “bounce” back? Among other problems within the writing. make Make of that what you will. I appreciate the work you put into this to get your perspective across, but this for me is not about “racism”….. the inconsistencies and plot holes just make this show not enjoyable. Just my 0.02 cents
@@rachelle6658 Its more consistent in Star Wars that people die when you run a lightsaber through them. Maul continuing to live has create precedent for contrived plot armor 🙄
I just started watching the vid but I 100% agree. Ive been wating for a video that talks about this. From some comments I've seen I expect this comment section to be a dumspter fire. A certified Star Wars fanbase moment if you will.
I just want to prove how wrong you are from my point of view the comments have been pretty tame everyone is just sucking Disney’s dick and giving no pushback in the comments I believe that all the real Star Wars fans have left and all that we have now are Disney Star Wars fans and you guys just consume and put no thought into the quality of a product so you won’t get any pushback in the comments. It’s just been literally just Disney NPC‘s fan Girling over how a video went out of their way to justify bad acting and a badly written character
If you actually took a look at what ppl are upset ab, you might understand bc it’s really not that complicated and has NOTHING to do with her race or gender. Disney KNEW they were making a show about her and not Kenobi, which is why they warned the actress “fans are racist” bc they KNEW ppl would be upset at them hiding what the actual show is, and if they call it racism before it even happened it absolves them from any criticism after it comes out, it’s very clear what their strategy is here 😂
@@PillarofGarbage the literal climax of the show is reva turning back to the light side. We got a shitty quick fight with some cool dialogue at the beginning of the finale but the actual climax of the entire show was reva turning back, NOT what we were sold on being “the rematch of the century” it was blatant false advertisement, if you go watch the trailers none of them accurately show what the show is about, she was made the lead. Obi Wan is a passive character idc it’s from his POV, stuff happens TO him not BECAUSE of him in this show, and Reva is the driving force behind the action, she is the lead of the show and it ruined it for fans bc that is not what we were sold on. No issue with her race.
Reva definitely would've come off as a more interesting character if we saw more conflict within herself offscreen. The fact that she yells ruining her intended surprise assassination attempt is a cursory glance at flawed writing. Same with the notion that she was yelling at Obi Wan fleeing in the transport ship, with stereotypical cliche' lines of "We will destroy you!" while angrily brandishing her lightsaber. I think the writers have bit off more they could chew, and didn't know which direction they wanted to go with her. Be someone as conflicted in her path of vengeance, or fully commit to her sort of brash, ruthless, arrogant approach. Personally, I would've prefer her being not really ruthless but conniving. Trying to one-up the inquisitors, and drum up conflict, whilst thinking she is one step ahead of everyone with her hubris. Or if they really wanted to stick with the conflicted inquisitor, forced to keep appearances and driven by vengeance, and resists the dogma that is perpetuated from most dark side practitioners it would've been a lot more interesting. Reva had a lot of potential in creating something good, the Second Sister was definitely one of my favorite inquisitors for that reason alone. You can empathize what happened to her, as well as understand her motives of her turn to the dark side. Twisted by the betrayal of her master, and corrupted by the dark side, fueled by her hatred of her master. A Jedi Master, a position that would expect a much higher esteem and yet, Cere Junda succumbed to torture, giving information to the Empire of the whereabouts of her Padawan and the youngling slaughtered in front of her. That is much more compelling. How I would've wrote the introduction of her, was the Order 66 scene, her as a youngling trying to escape only to have Anakin come in and kill every last one of those younglings, and she pretends to also die from her wounds by hiding under the dead younglings. (which was basically what she said happened to her) She wakes up from her dream of the past, and goes about her life. (Sort of montage) Interrogating people for locations of Jedi by herself, and later in her research in the Fortress, comes across an old bounty on Obi Wan Kenobi. AND THAT IS HOW YOU START THE SHOW. You get a concise backstory, and you have some room to have the audience understand her motives later. It also makes the audience understand why Reva's story is also tied with Obi Wan's, why she is relevant to the story. Instead of just jumping into her character's fixation with Obi Wan without any sort of understanding to why she is so obsessed and that we are told that it is an old obsession. SHOW. DON'T TELL.
An interesting video and I enjoyed listening to what you had to say. I know for me I didn't really enjoy Reva as a character, I wouldn't say I hate her though. She just didn't gel with me. I didn't like that she knew Vader was Anakin and with Vader confirming that he knew she was a Jedi youngling. I don't see him letting her live when he's been shown killing others for simply seeing his face even if they didn't know who he was. Also killing Jedi in the name of revenge for her Jedi family being killed just didn't make sense to me.
Subjectivity is the death of all reality. Pillar of Garbage is a blind man, because Reva DOES have objectively bad writing. The ENTIRE SHOW has objectively bad writing, and there's PROOF of that. I'm so sick of people defending bad things for the sake of "opinion". Like, sure you can like it, but you can't say that it's good just because you do. Subjectivity is a plague on the freedom of fact, and facts don't care about one's feelings. And the fact of the matter is, Reva with the way she was written, was and is a BAD character. So much potential just nerfed.
@@skeetskeet7041 No. No, it is not. And here's the proof: th-cam.com/video/TuPvSTf0dRs/w-d-xo.html And when it comes to Subjectivity: th-cam.com/video/K7OwKPqVsYM/w-d-xo.html As I've said, Subjectivity is a plague on the freedom of fact, and facts don't care about one's feelings. And the fact of the matter is, Reva with the way she was written, was and is a BAD character. So much potential just nerfed. I love the idea of her as a character and in fact, I didn't feel like she was a bad character at all. I was actually pretty sold on how her story went. But when you examine it form a cohesive, objective lense, no, she isn't a character that has good writing. And I am SICK of suckers defending things for the sake of petty "opinion" and not something greater that.
People have a history of crapping on Disney Star Wars characters from certain projects. To attribute that to racism or sexism is missing the point of the pushback. Characters including Ashoka, Leia (pre sequel trilogy), Lando, even the characters from rogue one and the Mandolorian range from universally loved to liked. The main pushback that Reva suffered was anger at the bait and switch. A show that was supposed to focus on Kenobi, actually focused on a redemption ark for Reva that no one cared about and that didn’t make a whole lot of sense. And that was at the expense of both canon and the character of Kenobi.
Imagine if the prequels weren’t about Anakin’s decent into the Dark Side and Obi-Wan’s transformation into the Jedi that Luke would meet and it was all about Jar-Jar or another side character.
@@PillarofGarbagethe Kenobi we get is not the Kenobi of the original and prequel trilogies, which is the main problem and he is not the main focus. Disney has already admitted that it used the series as a vehicle for a Reva series that no one wants.
If you only want to engage with a story on a surface level without critical thought that’s your right, but then you shouldn’t be speaking on how well it was written, performed and generally executed because you haven’t put in the mental effort to even know what it was trying to do, or whether what it was doing was actually positive or perhaps harmful in some way.
I mean....right? These are the people that still refuse to believe (despite Lucas TELLING THEM) that the Rebels in TOT are a stand-in for the Vietcong and the Empire is a stand-in for the American government. Yet they somehow still talk about "the agenda" and 'woke politics'...as if Star Wars hadn't ALWAYS had leftist themes... I guess we can safely say that right-wing reactionaries' ability to properly analyze and understand stories in media is basically...non-existent. I mean...they think Rorshack is an awesome hero and not the obvious cautionary tale nutjob that we all know him to be...and that Tyler Durden is somehow a role-model of "Chad masculinity" that should be emulated..and not an evil p.o.s. (the VILLAIN of the story), born out of the Narrator's repressed homosexual side. Edit: Sorry, I initially misunderstood your comment.
@@TSDTalks22 Hmm...you sure? If I misread the comment, mea culpa. Although I'd prefer it he himself told me. It doens't really come across very clearly who this "you" he's refering to is.
@@madsgrams2069 yes I’m fairly sure, considering I know Adam personally (sort of? We share some discord server space) and know where he stands on kenobi.
For me I didn't like her because I was just thinking hypocrite when you get her back story, but then the ending I ended up feeling luke warm (lol). Knowing damn well she couldn't kill anyone who's in a movie for obvious reasons I liked that she chose not to at the end and she asks for help in a way. Asking if she became him came off to me that she accepted that she's projecting her pain on others and that it's wrong. I have some mental issues and I enjoy seeing a character deal with ptsd and I guess feelings that some of us have trouble dealing with because the trauma behind it can just in a nice way, suck. My point I guess is that I agree she wasn't written poorly, but written complex because people are complex. But that's subjective lol
My guy that’s like you feeling bad for hitter if he decided to come back and regret the evil shit he done. Reva actually killed ppl and even children during her 10 years of being an inquisitor. She didn’t have to do any of that shit. Yet then she finally caves at trying to kill luke?? How?! It also makes no sense how she figured out kuke is Vader damn son (then continues to know heading forward and that’s suppose to just be okay with obiwan) shit is dumb af
@@lordgrim355 I mean she was one of the younglings captured Sidous and Vader, that got turned into weak vessels for the darkside like all other inquisitors. There wasn't ever much of a choice, my actual moral complaint with Reva would be why go after the child Vader doesn't know of to take vengance for her origins and ultimatly the show explicetly states she's in the wrong for doing this. So while she's kinda bland, Reva's not even reallt a bad character just an okay one.
@@f5boDag turned? My guy you’re mixing her with tela (or whatever her name was) from Jedi fallen order. That’s an actual proper story with a former Jedi turned inquisitor. Reva literally said that’s she JOINED the inquisitors to plot and kill Vader. And umm there wasn’t a choice? She CHOICE TO DO THAT. She could of choice not to and run away like all the other Jedi survivors did. Her character didn’t even have to exist for the story to play out. Umm my guy. The show tried to give her a redemption. The character she literally copies from the game dies. Reva should of died multiple times. She shouldn’t be allowed to live and also live with the knowledge of who Vader is. Who luke and leia actually are know where obiwan is located. So much canon destroying things happen with this character isn’t not even funny
@@lordgrim355 She was in the temple and it didn't seem like she had any chance of escape. The way the Inquisitors are recruited is still not fully clear to me, but it seems like was taken and at that momment choose to bid her time for revenge. She was still a weak child, forced into the Inquisitors to serve Vader and the Emperor. I guess if she could have escaped and still choose to go back and be captured because someone else did that's actually morally darker but logical since for her to believe this she'd have to believe the darkside would make her stronger and lead her to a path of evil. I guess it is wierder that she turns good at the end in that version, but it would make sense the visions of her fellow younglings haunting her making her see she's gone too far for no good would cause her to rethink everything as for her point of view she would have walked this path for them. Edit: Eh, her knowing who Vader is doesn't really destroy canon since she doesn't seem to have talked about it with the OG cast other than Obi so none of the had any reason to know it either.
@@f5boDag you need to go back and rewatch the series. Problem A. She SURVIVED. Nobody in the temple survived. Not only is this stated during Anakin attack of it, but yoda and obiwan also went back to the temple and saw for themselves. Problem B. She survived. She should of never survived a lightsaber to the chest or abdomen as a CHILD. That makes no sense at all. She out of all the younglings survived a direct attack. That makes no logical sense and only exist due to plot. Problem C. You don’t know how the inquisitors are recruited. They ARENT. They’re Jedi who Palpatine tortured endlessly till they give into the dark side. Once again this is all explained in Jedi fallen order. If you don’t want to play the game then look it up right here on TH-cam. You can find out how it all works here right now. All inquisitors are former Jedi users corrupted by Palpatine and turned. Problem D. She wasn’t forced into anything. Once again. She says herself that she JOINED. Meaning she gave herself up and decided to JOIN the inquisitors. We don’t know when she did it. It obviously wasn’t when she was a kid because the inquisitors didn’t exist immediately after order 66. She joined sometime after. The point is that she willingly joined as a way to get revenge on Vader Problem E. She could of escaped. Umm no she couldn’t have. She was already apart of them. No inquisitor has ever escaped. They all either died or been killed by Vader for failing. She’s the first one to ever escape and that’s because of the dumbass plot where she survived getting stabbed AGAIN. Then maned to escape the planet she was left on(mind you there was no ship to get off cause she came on the imperial one. She just magically escaped). She thought to be dead I guess since she was left for dead… Problem F. The visions of fellowing younglings. There’s 2 problems here. The first is she didn’t have visions of fellow younglings. It was visions of herself. The second problem is she’s an inquisitor. The main and only objective of an inquisitor is to hunt and either kill or capture Jedi. She been an inquisitor for a number of years as far as the story is concerned. Meaning she’s been killing/capturing Jedi for YEARS. She’s also TORTURED THEM. I mean if you even watched the show, she was about to torture Leia before being cut off and brought elsewhere. So in no point does her feeling she’s “gone to far” make any sense when she’s been doing evil Shit for years prior to the scene with Luke. And last but not least problem G. Her knowing Vader. There’s multiple reason why this is canon breaking. First off only a select few know who Vader true identity is. That being Yoda. obiwan. Palpatine. Organa(allegedly) Grand mod and of course Anakin himself. Nobody else knows this. It’s not even thought or assumed due to the fact that ppl thought Anakin was killed of during the purge. He’s remembered as a hero after order 66. There’s even a comic where Vader find a Jedi survivor from the temple. She comes to the realization Vader is Anakin and right at the moment not only does Vader kill her. He kills the storm troopers that were with them because of knowing his identity. Mind you she was a important person Palpatine wanted returned back but Vader outright killed her for figuring it out. Vader has also outright killed a stormtrooper who accidentally saw him with his mask off. The point being it s a well guarded secret that nobody it those individuals should even know . Shit the mere fact that she’s the one to tell obiwan he’s alive when obiwan should of know he was alive sometime during the last 10 year is insane i itself. So for reva to know is not only asinine but canon breaking. Why does it remain canon breaking? Because like I said earlier, she’s still alive. And we don’t know what she does. Her story isn’t complete. And it problem never will be cause of her terrible of a character she is. Nobody wants to know or care about her
The writing for the entire show was bad. Look at the first encounter between Obi Wan and Darth Vader. Has there ever been a less intense lightsaber duel? How does Darth Vader walk and keep up with Kenobi? Reva's backstory is pretty unplausible, it's absurd to think a child would survive a lightsaber through the torso. She also is arguably the most evil of any of the inquisitors and has likely been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of children indirectly by killing their parents, so her suddenly realizing she's becoming the monster she's fighting is hard to take seriously. As a whole the show relied too often on moments like her attacking Vader and Luke, which are characters we know survive, and leads to there being no dramatic tension. The tracker that's put on Leia's Droid changes its eyes color, which no one notices. The officer being discovered, fighting a fellow officer in a room full of people, and in general being able escape that situation was a massive stretch and poorly written. Her staying behind with thr grenade rather than just throwing it or setting there was dumb. Leia running away from grown ups early on was silly and nonsensical, so poorly written. The pacing of the show was also just really slow. I had no problems with Moses' acting, and in fact I would assume at least some of how much many hate her character is a credit to her acting, being that she's portraying a villain. Sure, she doesn't kill Luke, but she's by in large a villain that has allowed revenge to consume her. I think this criticism has fallen a bit for the fact that the smallest most extreme members of any "side" are often the loudest. Are some people who didn't like the show, or maybe even just her character racist? Yes absolutely. Are the majority? I really don't think so. I'm not racist, and I didn't like her character, and I didn't like the show outside of some moments in the last two episodes. Fan is short for Fanatic and people will always feel strongly about the material they've grown to be fans of. There's a fan edit that's 3.5 hrs long, still contains Reva, and has been widely accepted as good. I'd argue this proves the majority of the criticism of the show isn't from racists.
Regarding less intense, in the new hope , thr is one. by the same people. Not counting the doalogue around it, it before obi wan gets minimalist so it makes sense he ues minimalist fights here.
@@marocat4749 That's a fair opinion, but I'd go back and rewatch a clip of both one after another. Obi Wan of course intentionally dies in the NH one, which is pretty intense. I think the actual lightsaber combat is better too though less holding the LS against one another. That however becomes my opinion, so I respect it if you feel different.
8:05 Her: "have i become him?" Him: "no youre not, because you chose not to" Narrator: "Thats a great exchange" lol fk no its not, she spent a decade hunting down jedi and capturing innocent civilians as her coverup to get close to vader as revenge. Her not killing a child after a 10 year killstreak and the show trying to sweep over that is not a great exchange and not great writing, neither macro nor micro.
What about all the rebel spies and sympathizers that had to do bad things to other people or allow bad things happen to sometimes innocent ones to keep their cover?
@@reek4062 The line is better on a micro scale compared to Anakin and Padmé's love dialogue but is far worse on a macro scale, because it's directly opposed to what the story has shown us thus far.
@@itilosi9929 vader has been called out on being evil by numerous people during the Series. Reva never got that, a moment of truth. Adding up on that her "turn" from killing luke was no active descision, but rather the subconcious incapability of performing the act. Additionally Vader at no point claims his past as something justified. Her redemption is in no way comparable to Vader
yes :( dissenting opinions are, as always, perfectly fine and encouraged, but I will do my best to catch and remove anything that crosses the line into harassment, racism, etcetera
Pillar, an issue I see with this video is that if you are attempting to prove Reva's writing is good, why are you discussing comments that don't explain their criticisms or whose criticisms have nothing to do with the writing? Surely it would be more expedient and efficient to only comment on critiques that only discuss the actual writing.
Because the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of comments either didn’t detail/explain the valid criticisms they claimed to have, or gave entirely subjective reasons. That trend is more telling than *any* individual comment.
@@PillarofGarbage Well, the micro and macro writing sections combined are only 5 minutes. I also wouldn't consider the micro-writing as important as the macro which leaves barely 2:30 out of 30 minutes of addressing the major complaints about reva's character writing. I don't think this is enough time to address these major complaints and results in a poor defense of her supposedly good writing.
Riiight...the guy saying she was only put in the show because of the color of her skin is definitely not r@cist at all... Brilliant, m8, keep running defense for the worst people on the planet... :| I wonder if you thought the character is poorly written if everything about her was the same, only it was instead a "he" played by Tye Sheridan or Timothee Chalamet... Just food for thought...
@@madsgrams2069 imagine being so dense and blind, you can't see valid criticism bc someone mentioned race. I'm black. Idc she's black. She was a shit character that was written poorly and her ending arc didn't make sense. Along with obiwans dialogue with her in that scene. You saved the boy by not killing him. Wtf was her reason going after the boy? Bad writing
@@madsgrams2069 I mean some people, and some actors make a point to add certian ethnicities...pretty sure Reva's did the same thing. I could check to make sure on that last part.
Now this I can agree on . The show in the hands of better writers and directors could have been amazing just on the premise alone but I’m glad you agree that it was poorly executed
Yes, I agree with this. A lot of the best antagonists in TV these days have fully formed arcs and motivations that are shown on screen - think D'Onofrio's Kingpin. What this show actually needed was more Reva.
I agree. Her story arc and motivations make sense but I found the execution overall poor. I had a number of problems with this show that had nothing to do with her though.
@@Gfrog1000 how do they make sense the whole idea for the show is dumb George said obi wan stayed on tattoine for all 19 years and trained to comune with quigon now in this show he's a bum who didn't listen yodas advice at all and reva an ex padawan joins the only job in the empire where her job is to kill jedi and in ep 1 is GI did not force slow her she would have cut him in half stop lying everybody in this show got at some level character assinated
My feeling about the discourse around Kenobi (and also around some of Marvel Phase 4 movies and other popular franchises that started to go downhill some) falls in part to people being upset about the downturn of a fan favorite property, then they listen to some people who complain about the “new show/movie/etc” that was released and see the people who hated and critiqued the downturn and people latch on to that opinion. Many don’t watch the series, or if they do they are focused on finding things to confirm their feeling on a show, and not to see if a view was accurate. It’s true that many (not all but some) of the movies and shows since Disney got Star Wars are not good. That picture that came out of their “Star Wars ideas board” was troubling as well. But if a character or story fits in the world of Star Wars, doesn’t destroy the previous canon they held too and is fun, why hate on it so much? If you want to discuss shoehorned concepts, talk about TLJ and the entire Finn & Rose subplot that ultimately went nowhere and feels like that doesn’t fit in a Star Wars movie, but not every new addition is the same.
Her character was okayish. Nothing special.. with questionably stupid motivation... but whatever. The biggest issues... we're more around Leia. None of that was needed... she became the focus of a show.. that never needed to leave Tatooine to really work. 😕 "Long awaited rematch" that NEVER should have happened. Ugh.
@@rowan_like_the_tree I don't mind the "I became evil to fight evil" trope, but it was executed poorly. By the time her motivation is revealed... she has really only demonstrated negative character traits for half the show. Give me something early on.. that as a viewer... makes me invested in her redemption arc. As for Leia... omg.. it breaks souch established cannon that I cannot even take your question seriously. Obi Wan had one job.. protect Luke and train him in the force. It was clear from a writing and production standpoint that Leia was not intended to be in this show at all. It was all showhorned in.. and again.. executed poorly. I don't expect Shakespeare... this is only Star Wars... but this should have been Disney+ FLAGSHIP show. They should have been investing as much time and care into it as possible. Instead.. we got a cheesy CW mini series.
@@MaleusMaleficarum okay great job dodging my question as to what canon it breaks, would genuinely love to know any single piece of media that contradicts what happens with leia and obi wan, but also literally how can you say she wasn't supposed to be in the show? her being kidnapped is literally the catalyst for everything else happening. As for reva, to be honest I watched this show as it came out and haven't watched it again since so there may well not be anything to invest you in her redemption arc, but there is no way you can complain about bad writing in this show without complaining about the bad writing in literally all of star wars. I obviously don't know if you individually like prequel memes or quote the terrible writing everyone gets in those movies, but the double standard among the fans is painful to see
@@rowan_like_the_tree it breaks most of the interactions in A New Hope. But, view it however you like. I'm not even a Star Wars "fan." But I grew up with the Kenner toys and follow pop culture. I dislike the Skywalker Saga. Rogue One is the best film of the bunch.
@@MaleusMaleficarum im still not sure what canon it's breaking. Leia and obi wan (off the top of my head) never directly interact, and it's not like he went back to tatooine and filled Luke in on everything that happened. You keep dodging what I'm actually asking about, like what would the show be about without leia and just on tatooine, and i really would love to know what you think because i can't come up with shit
I think it was silly that reva got stabbed with a lightsaber twice and lived both times but after watching the ahsoka show, it's clear that's more of a Lucasfilm problem than one specific to kenobi.
It's a Disney problem, not a Lucasfilm problem. Before Disney took over, being stabbed with a lightsaber was fatal. Now, you can walk it of in an afternoon.
@Lobsterwithinternet Maul was also made Sidious apprentice because he was powerful in the dark side and had a great deal of potential. Not to mention, he came back in the EU as well utilizing a known dark side technique to keep himself alive through his hatred. He wasn't impaled through any of his vital organs, which the lightsaber would have damaged beyond his techniques ability, he was cut in half just above his hips, which *is* survivable with the force essentially filling in for the medical treatment that would otherwise be needed. Nobody pre-disney has ben slashed or impaled by a lightsaber through their vital organs and survived save for Darth Sion, who's body was literally being held together by an extremely powerful force technique which he had become completely reliant on. Even then, the second he released that technique, he died on the spot. None of the people that have been getting stabbed since Disney took over are anywhere near powerful enough to use that technique to that extent, and some aren't even force users to begin with. A child that has barely begun to use the force isn't going to be strong enough to save herself, and even as an adult, Reva's training was, deliberately, incomplete because the inquisitors are meant to tools, not true sith. She should be dead twice over. As should the Grand Inquisitor. And Sabine. All of them should be dead.
It was bad writing because most of the show was generally bad writing. It wasn't her in particular, it was overall bad writing. I'm a black guy so it's not a racist thing, and it's not bigotting on women because i loved every single woman in the original 6 movies as well as in the clone wars show, so it's not that, but i HATED Reva's character at the core. I feel her design was lazy, her performance felt like s performance, they shouldn't have shown her as a kid to keep suspense strong, but showing their hand was silly. Nothing about how she was written is organic more did it feel like it was worked for. There was just so much general bad writing overall. Reva on paper was a good idea, but it was executed like a 10 year old was to enjoy it.
It was a bad show, and Im sorry to say that this video reads like a school debating speech trying to win over on a topic that doesnt really hold water. Lots of what your trying to get across as objective truth, is actually quite subjective. There is no feeling in any new disney star wars (besides rogue one and maybe mandalorian) and her character and her motives were really poorly planned out. She wants to go murder Luke Skywalker to revenge her childhood jedi friends but cant. This isnt just poor writing, its a bad idea. Why would anyone feel invested in an unknown new character that has attempted to simply badass her way onto the show with no time for proper character development and wanting to kill a character that we know survives. This is idiotic. Her attempt at an attack on vader is idiotic and clumsy and renders all her calculated sucking up round the joint pointless. I have zero qualms with the acting as she was just given what she was given to work with and to be honest I thought she actually did a good job with what she was given as a script! Furthermore, I certainly dont side with any ugly, racist star wars fans who have hate filled motivations or acting in bad faith towards Reva or any of these actors. However I dont think its a right wing reactionary position to hold, that the show lacked any feeling that star wars supposed to and new characters (including Reva) played a part in that. The "writing" wasnt just bad for Reva, it was bad in general and she is included in that. No true fans ever questioned Lando or any persons of colour in the past and their was weird acting and writing back then too. But the feeling came through, the emotion. The only way to half enjoy this average show is by way of any fan edit where the cut half of the narrative out and in some cases cut whole episodes of bullshit out. Fans need to stop defending this garbage and say enough is enough and we deserve better. Good enough isnt good enough. Millions and millions of dollars are spent on these new pedestrian star wars shows that have zero emotion or weight of any george lucas made star wars and its total bullshit. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if people dont demand better, we wont get it.
This! I think its pretty unnecessary to punch in the case that reva is "Oh such a bad and stupid character. yadayada!", because literally everything about Kenobi is bad, reva has nothing to do with it on her own, especially not her actress, she did her best, but there was just nothing great to make out of the stuff she got to work with. (Just like every other character in the show i might add, vader and obiwan where a joke, but the actors did their best)
Here's the thing. Good writing and bad writing is subjective. The people who criticize the writing of Reva have different expectations of the writing and that is okay. People are alowd not to like reva and the writing choices. It is extremely reductive and disingenuous to assign an alternate motive to someone's criticism. If somone is telling you that they don't like a character for xyz reason it isn't your place to tell them 'no your just saying that to hide the fact that you don't like them for ABC reason'
I didn’t really like this show as much as I was hoping too. I understand why ppl didn’t like reva. She was like a knockoff version of the inquisitor from fallen order “with less motivation”. And keep in mind I’m black myself. I just think reva is one of if not the most poorly written characters in Star Wars
“You don’t like this character who is female, therefore, you are sexist.” “You don’t like this character who is POC, therefore, you are racist.” “You don’t like this character who is gay (or trans), therefore, you are homophobic (or transphobic).” The pain. It hurts. What, you don’t think disliking a character is valid, especially if they’re disliked for their poor writing?
At 5:17 you ask the question, "why is that?" w/ regard to why Reva seems to be under so much scrutiny compared to other characters in the Kenobi show, & why she is so harshly & constantly mocked & undermined despite the fact that her writing dialogue-wise is entirely serviceable (if not good or even exceptional, which it's not & no one would seriously argue otherwise), & she does a pretty decent job in the show. Then you use a crickets sound effect to preemptively suggest that no one has offered or indeed will offer a reasonable explanation, so you win by default. Well, I'll tell you my experience. First of all, the amnt of scrutiny Reva is put under is completely appropriate, & is entirely the fault of Disney & the writers. In a show called "Obi-Wan Kenobi" we have an equal amnt of screen time to the titular character given to this newbie. Alrdy she's in a bad position. Audiences will (entirely understandably & justifiably) be annoyed that we keep leaving the character they know & care abt that they paid to watch in order to bolster this other cretin. If this was going to work, Reva's backstory would have to be compelling, relatable, borderline fascinating, revelatory, & should in some way come back to & reinforce the character of Obi-Wan. Instead her story is bland, forgettable, & is effectively nonsensical in that it doesn't explain why she'd be evil. Second, the role she fills in the script/story is ancillary, & nothing necessitates that it be _her_ that fills it. In other words, she could be _anyone,_ making her character once again bland & even almost redundant. You quickly get the feeling that she was written or inserted into the story, rather than her having an integral role upon which the entire story pivots. What does Reva ever do or say or accomplish that couldn't have been done by the other Inquisitor, or (better yet) Vader himself, or the Grand Inquisitor, or hell, even Starkiller?? All characters w/ some grounding alrdy who don't need so much screen time just to establish them. Third, visually she could not be _less_ impressive (as in 'leaving an impression'). The actress is very pretty, & her physique is damn near a 10/10. They then make the _brilliant_ decision to put her in one of those suits the canine cop trainers wear to train dogs to bite & attack. Both male & female fans would've liked her a whole lot more had she been dressed appropriately showing off how _God damn _*_fine_* she is. & I don't just mean put her in a bikini or something. Leia managed in basically a ball gown to be "...so sexy it hu-u-urts!" Reva? Dumpy. Lumpy. & Frumpy. Fourth, her FU'KING ATTITUDE. It's funny how these corporations & directors & actors etc constantly accuse us out here of being bigots & r@c!sts, & yet they are quixotically _constitutionally incapable_ of writing a black female character who isn't a loudmouth, boisterous, impulsive, foolish, brazen & overbearing fool who makes you want to open hand smack her across the face. They can't write black males w/o them being loud, clownish, tertiary, greedy, lustful, vain, superficial, prone to violence, prone to or comfortable w/ crime, obsessed w/ sex & "booty," & (not-so-) secretly racist against white ppl. (Gee, I wonder if there's any social engineering going on here??? 🤔) Reva is so laughably one dimensional, like she's not even two dimensional. It's sad. W/ so much pressure & att'n forced on this actress & character, they _badly_ needed to do so much better than this. She was going to take up as much screen time as the titular character(!!) & _this_ is the best they could do?? Fifth & finally, even tho I _could_ go on unfortunately: her immorality. & if she were actually written as an antagonist, that'd be more forgivable. But it's clear right from her first moments on screen & even before that she's going to be the redeemed villain archetype. Now let alone that historically (think Red Dead Redemption 1) that charicature still has to take responsibility & usually die for their many past crimes. No, this is a woman, so obviously she was a victim & it was _never_ her fault. Women are never violent or unreasonable or jealous or vindictive or vain & narcissistic, & no woman would ever be stupid & short-sighted enuf to allow her actions to put her in a position that she doesn't like, forcing her to then engage in amazing feats of mental & moral gymnastics to justify said actions & position, all because she refuses to admit wrongdoing & a bad attitude. *OB-VI-OUS-LY...* Every viewer sees these things all going on, & rightfully expects, "Okay writers, show me why I should care. Show my why Reva is worth the time & energy investment." & they don't, they fail to, because she's not. Oh wait, shit, SIXTH: Her make-up, or lack thereof. Her hairstyle is exactly what you'd see if you went to Atlanta or Orlando or Charlotte & just went arnd & checked out black women's hairstyles. Her make-up is totally basic & _ex-TREME-ly_ minimalist. Where the character should be a kinda like, gothic-style almost femme fatale gimmick, instead she's just the nurse or dental hygienist or HR office worker you work w/ every day, wearing a weird, goofy, puffy, knockoff Darth Vader costume (one that is so unflattering it can only be intentional). It's fourth wall breaking almost. It's like if you saw your neighbour all of a sudden in like, Stranger Things. You'd be like, "Oh, what the hell is Sharon doing on TV?" Make her an alien! Give her pointy ears! Make her hair look, ooh I don't know, space-ey & futuristic for your futuristic space fantasy?! Okay. NOW I'm totally done. Hope this has demonstrated that the audience is not at fault for unfairly putting Reva under the spotlight. Disney did that. If they had used Starkiller it wouldn't have happened, cuz he was alrdy established. If they had used w/e the dark side version of Ashoka Tano would be it wouldn't have happened, cuz she would have been established. Reva was a new character. We were interested. The more we paid att'n, the more she failed & came up short. This caused us to pay more att'n, maybe we're missing something? Nope, nothing but more cringe. This comment? This is _your_ fault for issuing an ultimatum, lol. I take no responsibility. & It's length has finally helped me get tired so I can sleep before work. So thank you. Liked, will probly sub depending on how much stuff you've got & if it's long enuf to listen to while I work. Nothing less than 40 min is my rule of thumb. Anyway, w/e. Cheers.
So, my thoughts on the matter are this: Reva is 'fine' as writing goes. 'Fine' in that, under the current direction that and climate for writing for star wars, she fits within the mold, she is what Disney is looking for, with respect to what they want the story to portray. Whether that story is any good? Well, opinions differ greatly. For me, it's not that I don't like Reva as a character, simply, I don't care about Reva as a character, white, black, marmalade, doesn't matter, and that does indeed come from writing. In broad strokes, from Rogue One, the writing for Star Wars stories has been decidedly going downhill in my opinion, and the characters have suffered for it. The villians, feel almost comically bad throw-aways. The heroes feel cheap and inane, or improperly used, and by and large, the stories they convey feel weak, the racial and/or gender identities of the characters are meaningless topics to even bother with. As you said, on paper, the fact that a character might be black, or gay, or a woman, does... not... matter. How they are portrayed, and carried out, does. Reva does not suffer, from being a poor character, because she is black, or a woman, she suffers, because her rival through the story, is portrayed as weak, and cowardly. Two things Obi-Wan never was. In the prequel saga, he was a brilliant tactician and war commander, had a seat on the council, and could stand toe to toe with probably one of the most dangerous forces in the galaxy. Original Saga? Obi-Wan was a wise, cunning, and powerful force user. Why then, in the middle of his prime years, is he such milktoast bumbling fool? Why are Reva's fellow inquisitors so... bland? For Reva to have been a good villian, a good antagonist, she NEEDED, to have a story worthy of her, the grand inquisitor was shown to be a ruthless and cunning adversary, always 2-3 steps ahead of everyone around him, getting cut down, even temporarily, should never have been a thing, and even if it were, Reva as a character simply did not have time to really make the cunning necessary shine. Good writing, would have made subtle nods to her approach, would have shown her to actually have the cunning necessary to stand toe to toe with Star Wars legends. That's simply not there. But that's also not her fault, it's been the way of things for years. Disney's hamfisted approach of slamming 'stories' down our throats with all the subtlety of a steam roller is what is at fault. I want to like our characters, I really do, I just... Don't though, and I haven't for a long time now.
Shes a good actress. But she was an awful character with weak writing at best, and horrible at worst. You see your fellow younglings get slaughtered…and decide your going to get revenge on vader by…helping slaughter and hunt your fellow jedi and younglings.. what?!? Not to even mention she was about to torture a literal ten year old. I have no feelings for her and wish she had died by Vader. Dont care about her gender or race..reva just was a terrible character.
How does killing Luke become the rubicon for Reva becoming the thing she has fought against? Her arc begins at that point. I understand and agree with what you are saying about the micro level of Reva's writing. I never had a problem with her lines of dialogue. Her performance was good, despite the "angry people yell so that you know they are angry" trend that has characterized Disney Star Wars. It is her overall narrative I have a problem with. She is no "undercover hero." She spends a life pursuing revenge. She does who knows how many evil things to be better placed in order to get her revenge. She goes to Tatooine with the goal of killing a young child. Whether this is revenge on Obi-wan or Vader is not made clear... and we, the audience, are supposed to cheer when she does not go through with it? She does not redeem herself... she merely does not add one more to her list of sins.
You aren't meant to cheer her on, you're just meant to empathize with her. Also you complain about angry people yelling as if that's not generally what angry people do in real life.
@@angeldoe1229 I don't complain that angry people are yelling... Classic Star Wars was good at presenting a full emotional range. Vader was intimidating as hell but, vocally, cool as a cucumber. Such to the point that, when Vader did raise his voice, there was a weight behind it. If people yell all the time... it becomes meaningless as a means of communication.
@@angeldoe1229 This is probably how dim the writers were. You're meant to empathize with a character who's actions don't follow any clear rational. Empathizing with Reva is more difficult than empathizing with Vader, considering he went through a lot more than Reva did. How do you empathize with someone who wants revenge on someone else who is also a victim? Why not target the Emperor? If she's so obtuse as to only see Vader as a target, what does she expect of those she murders in cold-blood? She becomes a hypocrite. What empathy am I supposed to feel? Her character deserved what she got in the scope of the story.
The Most HILARIOUS Defense I've Seen from people who claim they're "not being Sexist", is when they go "I can't be Sexist! Ahsoka Tano is my Favorite Character!"... This is funny to me because I actually REMEMBER what it was like when this character was Created, EVERYBODY HATED HER, As much if not MORE than they do Reva for this series. In fact, I'm tempted to say more, since They HATED Ahsoka for YEARS after she was put to Screen, the Reva Hate Died out with the last Episode of Obi-Wan when they realized they didn't have a leg to stand on anymore(It's Basically the Entertainment equivalent of "I'm not Racist, I had a Black Friend!" after Spewing Racist Rhetoric for 2 hours)... Funny What Time to actually Develop a Character and show them off can do for them eh? Almost like you shouldn't jump to Screaming "BAD WRITING!" 5 Seconds after they show their face... or before the show even starts... And it's SO Weird how that ONLY ever Happens to Characters that we would call "Diverse" and never to the "Default" Straight White guys eh? Also, I've noticed this tendency for The Racists and Sexists to Always "Measure" New characters in groups, they find one that they don't hate, and at the same time they find one that' are Showing up roughly at the same time, and then go "Ok, this one we're gonna say we like, That way we can claim to not be Intolerant when we BOMBARD the other ones with undeserved Attacks! It's Genius!" (Meanwhile literally everyone with more than 2 Brain Cells to Rub together Noticed and are just Facepalming)
"...the bad writing complaint acted as a smokescreen for bad-faith, bigoted responses..." OK, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were watching completely different reviews and commentary than I was. The most common criticisms I've heard of the character are as follows: 1. Reva's character, backstory, motivation, even designation was a direct ripoff of a videogame character (Trilla, the 2nd Sister from Jedi: Fallen Order, who pulled it off much more effectively). 2. The character is introduced and developed as cartoonishly cruel, violent and deliberately evil yet later flips to an attempt at a justifiably vengeful, empathetic victim-turned-avenger (This is the person you're supposed to come to identify with). 3. The character's motivations range from non-sensical to self-negating (For instance, she can't bring herself to kill little Luke because she identifies with him as a hunted victim, yet she had no problem enthusiastically murdering who knows how many Jedi and others for the better part of a decade, a role she willingly sought out) 4. The character's in-story efficacy is linked to plot convenience and knowing information it would be improbable for her to be able to gather. 5. Apparently, for her to be taken seriously as capable or intelligent, everyone around her or presented in opposition to her must be Narratively represented as incompetent or borderline idiotic to the point of deconstructing and diminishing previously established characters in her favor. That doesn't sound like bigotry to me. that sounds like a badly written narrative around a bad character.
One thing I noticed about irrationally negative right-wing “criticism” on the internet is that if someone *really* doesn’t like something, and if they don’t have any real reason why, they usually just the thing they liked has “bad writing” or “a bad story” and either purposely overrepresent the worst part the things writing or just misunderstand why the creator of the thing wrote something that way. This is just how the internet works, for example this is how most “criticism” against Bethesda games usually Cary out, and the sequel trilogy (except the last one for some reason like they said they don’t like it but most of the irrational conservatives pretty much ignored it shortly after everyone began dunking on it), And with most of phase 4 marvel.
But she is poorly written and I can prove it in one sentence. She can read peoples minds (shown in episode two), yet decides not to read Owen's mind in episode one because reasons.
My problems with Reva : 1. She's way over the top - her agressiveness crosses so far over the line SW sets for force users to fall hard to the dark side, her redemption seems way too abrupt and rushed 2. The story makes other characters act stupid and reckless just in order to further her arc. ObiWan leaving his comms behind. Bail broadcaating in expository fashion the biggest secret they have just in order for her to be able to find the Lars farm, Vader not just murdering an obvious traitor... 3. Her redemption story is not only abrupt but also lacks suspense being needlessly placed in one place in this friggin galaxy we know she cannot do any damage or the OT won't happen. My biggest gripe of those is what I'm really sensitive to generally - building up a new character by teraing down the establisjed ones. Making them weaker, dumber, less compelling. Sequels did it, fans hated it and Kenobi doubles down on it. There's no learning curve with these story group drive, write-by-commitee, modular storytelling products.
Reading comments about Reva online, I keep noticing how oddly defensive her detractors get. It's like they're poor victims being persecuted by the EEEVIL SJWs, and can't voice their objective criticism out of fear that they'll be labelled as racists. Like, chill, my guy. No one's gonna "cancel" you for saying you didn't enjoy Reva's character or the show itself, just make an effort to explain WHY without jumping to agression and repeated buzzwords like "identity politics".
Identitiy politics isn't a "buzzword." It's a term used to describe a political strategy that's centered around manipulating a peron's natural desire to be good/moral by attaching race and/or gender to everything. It's happening all around you. Wake up.
You'd be surprised. I've been called sexist for not liking rey despite talking about the writing of her character and not the actress (in fact daisy ridley did good with the material she had)
reva was a well written character? so we’re being intentionally blind and disingenuous now? alr word sounds like the modern star wars fan. y’all wouldn’t understand nuance or growth in a character if it slapped u in the face
I remember everyone online was hating reva when the premiere released. Even my sister didn't like her at first, but i immediately enjoyed Reva from the beginning. By the second episode i had already theorized that she was a survivor of Operation: Knightfall. My only contention(a minor one) is her origin is two much like Second sister's.
Nah man, I'm black and admit Reva was trash. Writing was horrible and the character just felt cheesy and unnecessary with confusing motives. Skin color had little to do with it, it was the distracting ass character getting in the way of what people actually wanted to see.
Wanted revenge against Vader for killing younglings and Jedi Kills younglings and Jedi as an inquisitor for years. Doesn't show remose for killing innocents at any point. Stops for some reason when it comes to actually harming Luke (someone connected to the person she hates). She got an unearned redemption just because she had a tragic past. In my opinion. She is poorly written. I know I haven't even seen the video yet but I took plenty of time to form my opinion on her characterization and it's just bad. I like a fair amount of your videos but this ain't it
You might feel that way but most of these racists they use bad writing to hide behind their racism. The Star Wars fandom is full of races in sale wannabe Nazis who screen woke whenever the white guy isn't the center of attention at all times.
It's kinda poetic that people are trying to refute this video before they've seen my arguments + explanations. As those who choose to watch it first will see, premature judgement and leaping to conclusions is... bad.
I honestlyhave no real problem with Reva (and I'm black). It's just that she feels more like a plot than a character: That dark inquisitor that turns out to be a former jedi working her way up to kill Darth Vader. I think that might have been a cool show-premise of its own... The bad thing is it just isn't the right place in a show called "Obi Wan Kenobi". It's like watching "The Empire Strikes Back" with one third just concentrating on C3PO.... Every fan expüected to see more of Obi Wan vs Vader, exploring what will Obi Wan do and how will he work himself up again (which is what happens but at a wrong pace). That and unclear "sympathy moments" & motivations is what makes Reva so annoying. If I'd had the script I would have cancled out killing the Grand Inquisitor and given the audience ,with her, a carrier of seeing her hunting Obi Wan and letting her go treacherous by letting Obi Wan go and leaving the potencial for a Sequel with her.
I think the names being given to series is a huge problem (in general, across star wars and marvel). For starters, it isn't creative to name a show after its lead character. But more importantly, it primes expectations in a very specific way. Imagine if this show had a title along the lines of "to rescue a princess" or "revenge and betrayal". The marketing can still be about showing off ewan McGregor, but I think a lot fewer people would take issue with the low hanging fruit of "but this isn't supposed to be the reva show". Edit: just thought of a better example for the title "you're my only hope"
Christ all this work for an IP that is dying a slow painfull death, with more crap writing then good. I dont care how many POC they hire, as long as they hire some good writers next time( I personally liked Andor quite a bit). I think Moses Ingram is a good actress but the show was bad overall. I hope the 'fans' can stop threatening every actor they dont like regardless of colour, thats just insane, get a life.
...you DO realise that is an Inquisitor, she literally hunted and killed other Jedi? As part of her plan to take revenge for Vader killing other Jedi? This is absolute insanity. To rise in the ranks, she must have killed many Jedi...yet when it came to Luke, she somehow couldn't do it... And to be perfectly fair, it's not just Reva that is badly written. The whole plot of this show makes less than zero sense.
@@TheSorrel would just be nice if that arc was in someway earned or at the very least understandable to the audience. Instead it's just " well, I killed many people before, but I just decided that I can't kill this child, so I'm redeemed now"
Tbh I just think the show as a whole was super flawed. It had good parts, but they just. Shouldn’t have made it, or at least, I think it should’ve been very different. (If you’re going to focus on Obi-Wan’s lost years then it should not be action packed like What were you guys thinking lmao.) I think Reva would’ve benefited from being in a better show. But overall, while her writing did feel flawed, (haven’t watched the show in a while so I can’t list reason because my memories fucked lol), she had some of my favorite scenes. Actually, my main issue with Reva has nothing to do with writing quality, but rather the fact that one of the only black women in the franchise is the angry black person stereotype. Also that’s she’s a villain. Like yikes.
See, that's a good point actually. Reva does kinda fall into the angry black woman stereotype, even if the anger is very justified. Points for not killing her off though, that would have made things worse.
The problem with this series is that the whole thing is broken, not just Reva, I mean the fact that she manage to find a relation between Leia and Obi Wan that not only no one notice before but everyone just ignores after, Organa asking Obi Wan for help endangering Luke and exposing himself and Leia is just absurd, young Reva surviving a lightsaber stab by Vader is stupid (and if you pull of the Darth Maul card remember that he was a trained Darth Lord of the Sith, that the Inquisitors were given basically no training at all, so even as an adult doesn't make sense), Leia suddenly being able to fix the door after being shown to be bad with technology when failing to fix her droid was also bad, Obi Wan going from not being able to move a pice of metal to stop all the water pressure was just weird, Reva escaping the planet when there where probably not enough ships, Vader deciding to ignore the rebels and chase Kenobi instead of sending the Star Destroyer after the rebels and going after Kenobi himself, Owen and Beru deciding to fight a dark user instead of running away even knowing what they are capable of, the message Organa sent to Kenobi (I mean he think that he got captured so he send a transmission exposing everything, seriously!!??) etc... Reva does have bad writing because this was a show with really bad writing, you can enjoy it if you want but you cannot ignore just how broken it is
Not to mention Reva being angry at Anakin for killing Jedi and wanting revenge, then spending the next decade hunting and killing Jedi. Makes her the biggest hypocrite in the galaxy. And btw im absolutely fine with her being mad at Anakin for killing Jedi and wanting revenge. Great set up. But then you made her a MASSIVE hypocrite. She maims and kills innocent people, kidnaps children and again tries to kill Jedi despite her superiors wanting him alive for interrogation. For someone angry for the deaths of Jedi, she seems to have no problem killing Jedi Its the logical equivalent of being mad at Jeff Epstein for....lets say abusing children... Not to mention facilitating the...abuse...of children. Then becoming a serial...child abuser...in order to get back at him. And yes, Obi-Wan has horrible writing in this show. So does Leia. So does Vader. So does this show in general.
Came here to say something like this. I understand and agree with some of PoG’s accusations that there is more to some people’s dislike of Reva than “bad writing,” but that doesn’t negate the fact that Reva in particular and this show in general has a LOT of bad writing. I think it has pretty good micro writing most of the time, but the show as a whole makes extremely little narrative sense even if you take it in isolation, let alone considering it as a chapter in a long-running narrative
In the new hope, leia knew obi wan enough to sent the droid with plans to him, and luke knew him as weird fruendly odd ben. There is some rason leia trusts obi wan and, it may a well be that.
Yes, she was terribly written. They used her as a vehicle to retroactively take things away from major characters. For instance, her plan for putting the tracker on Leia is identical to Vader's plan in A New Hope. It's implicitly stating that Vader stole her idea during the original movie, that it wasn't his and he had to steal it from Reva. She's inconsistent from episode to episode, it's insane that she is able to constantly squabble with the other inquisitors and not have been put down for the things she's done at this point, her initial plan of kidnapping Leia is so stupid in how she goes through this immense effort and she's able to see a connection literally nobody else in the galaxy or empire has seen, she's just the only one smart enough to put her father and Kenobi's connection together because ??? And somehow she's ready and willing to kidnap the guy's daughter, but not of sound enough mind to either monitor where he's going, or monitor his communications. It's ABSURD. Fundamentally ABSURD. Kenobi is the worst written Star Wars property Disney has ever produced. The prequels were all better then it. And Reva is the worst offender, it is genuinely the most embarrassing thing and even Ewan Macgregor's solid performance as Obi wan can't save it.
I think when it comes to the point about Reva’s inclusion being because of some political agenda, for me personally at least (and I do know at least several others share this) it’s less her inclusion itself, but moreso how the publicity and company treat it. You’re absolutely right, her race has no bearing on the story and doesn’t change anything, so why is that one of the main talking points in interviews or other similar sources? Why is she being treated like she’s the first black character in Star Wars when what should matter is her role in the story (now I do not remember if this was actually said, I believe it was but if there’s a chance I’m wrong). That’s what bugs a fair lot of us and what makes us feel that’s a box to be ticked, not that they’re included, but that the creators draw special attention to it and specifically treat it like it’s a brand new thing that should be celebrated just because it exists, instead of celebrating a well-written character regardless of race or gender. Hopefully that made some sense. As to Reva’s writing, Jonathan Dunston already said what I was going to say (probably way better than I could), however I will also point out SavageBooks’ Yt channel, as he did a good video talking about the flaw(s) pf Reva and showing how the show could have overcome those. Now the argument could be made that he is indulging in fanfiction, however I think it’s motivated less by “this is how I wish the show went” and moreso by what would’ve made the show’s goals for the character work in the narrative (which is a common trend on his channel, trying to objectively see what would improve the narrative and helping it reach its goals). Anyway, I’m not gonna bother going back through all of this before I post and checking for errors, so unless I edit it you’ll get whatever weird poorly worded garbage I wrote 😅
"Why is she being treated like she’s the first black character in Star Wars when what should matter is her role in the story" Because the stupid ass actress playing Reva is the one who said that dumb shit lol Her race wasnt the talking point for the critics against her character; it was how crappy the character was because notice no one said anything about Giancarlo Esposito's character in Mandalorian as that was well recevied and notice he's not White either so no it wasn't about race. DIsney preemptively tried to gaslight the fans by saying it was about race because they already knew they had a garbage show on their hands. You think studios dont know? We just got through this with WB canceling the new Batgirl show. They know trash when they have it. Disney just decided to release it anyway unlike WB. Also excluding Reva alone, the show doesnt work because its constantly broke its own logic as well as retconning lore.
@@budgiecat9039 Studio Executives feed the actors lines in what to say in interviews and stuff like that. Thats why they say all the same campy lines "inclusive" "diversity" blah blah. The studio definitely was banking on Moses Ingram being a black woman, rather than a talented actress
@@SkeetersGuitar Its a shame and odd they didnt do that with Thandie Newton in Solo or Giancarlo Esposito in Mandalorian. Just shows that things are getting exponentially worse in this whole fake activism agenda push Hollwood has been doing trying to deflect and hide from bad writing and direction where its so obvious now its become a bad joke. The lastest example of the She-Hulk director trying to deflect and gaslight critics and fans who critcized the poor looking CGI in the initial She-Hulk trailer as "sexists who were trying to body shame She-Hulk design" like lmao are you kidding me?? No, just like how people pointed out how poor the Sonic design was in the first Sonic the Hedgehog trailer (which thankfully the director and crew were open minded enough to accept said criticism and fix), so too was this the same thing.
The bad writing has little to do with the dialogue it's with the plot and contrivance that makes things happen. Reva having major plot armor through the show and getting where she needs to be for the next scene regardless if it makes sense.
Personally, there really isn't a double standard going on here simply because despite the public being sold on a Kenobi vs. Vader series what they got was a plot built around Reva being the driver. They needed to quickly establish her as a specifically intelligent adversary that does things differently that ultimately has clear purpose what she wanted to have happen(Which is what I think Disney wanted.). Instead she is introduced as being comically evil and brash, to the extent that it demeans her character that she had to behave that way to prove herself. In fact her competency and moral character are told after the fact of the events happen rather than actually coming off as genuine or proven. On top of all of this she had to be showcased besides characters like Obi-Wan and Vader. They needed their writing and acting on her to be near perfect, but it wasn't and it shows elsewhere in the series and characters. If Vader or Kenobi were the actual plot-drivers in the story she wouldn't have gotten as much flack as she did. Maybe you can say people prejudged her because of her opening scenes and the series not being what people expected but ultimately that's not racism, that's trying to sell people on something they didn't want.
While I have a number of problems with the show not limited to Reva, I do think this video needed to be made. The outrage market around Star Wars is insane now.
If you felt the scene where she spared Luke was powerful good for you and fair enough to like what you like. Alot of people didn't like Reva for several reasons and I think everyone can agree automatically painting someone who doesn't love a specific character as racist by a large conglomerate company is a bad look.
“I don’t see why you would criticize this show and not the original series for being more developed.” Tells you all you need to hear about his personal opinion. Yeah…why would people think a show filmed in 2022 should have more updated writing than the originals from decades ago…way to not even think out your own thoughts dude 👍
What exactly do you mean by updated writing? Screenwriting wasn’t some primitive art back in the 70s, and authors had been crafting naturalistic dialogue for hundreds of years prior…
@@PillarofGarbage one was marketed in the 70s…this is marketed in 2020. Believe it or not, television norms have changed over 50 years. Not understanding the times and comparing two shows/movies so far apart is ridiculous. The writing in Kenobi was bad. It’s just that simple, man. The fan service alone was worth watching the show I watched it because I’m a Star Wars fan, but I can still acknowledge bad writing when I see it without having to go searching for explanations and excuses to protect Disney overlords poor execution of this series
The thing that always frustrated me the whole show was never her, it was the Inquisitors as a whole. A character thrives when they are in relatable circumstances with believable characters. Reva was the only character doing her job that made sense. None of the other Inquisitors was written to make any impact to her or the story at all. They did absolutely nothing and were not able to elevate Reva at all. All they did was stand around and either tell her to do stuff or get mad at her for doing stuff. Like please just do your job y'all 😭. Characters thrive not just by their own will and characterization but also because of their environment. There was no one around her that was pushing her/challenging her at all. So nothing she ever did (specifically in the first half of the show) felt real or exciting because no one ever did anything but complain about it 🤣 One of my favorite moments in the show was when Darth Vader actually (kinda sorta almost lol) "punished" her, because she finally had consequences for her actions. I think her character clicked a lot more-for me at least-towards the last three episodes. Characters need consequences. I think the biggest thing that supports the whole "Mary Sue" argument by more right-leaning/centrist fans is that some characters are written with absolutely no consequences. It can feel as though they are taken completely out of reality to serve as a vehicle for progress or agenda (according to their argument). This show definitely baited the audience into believing Reva would've fallen into that same potential category until she (almost?) had consequences and actually explained her intentions... But yeah the show was just kinda all over the place, so there is a lot of unfortunate elements to unravel here. I also wish they went into her backstory more and sooner, because it was so obvious in the beginning, but it wasn't revisited until it was too late :/
I appreciate the depth here! I don’t totally agree with every part of it (I’d argue the way she was ‘grounded’ by the Grand Inquisitor in episode 2 was a fairly tangible consequence for her over-ambitious, rash kidnap move [albeit a consequence she herself undermined by shanking him, but that’s also an important moment for establishing her agency] - and thus I’d probably disagree that Kenobi ‘Mary-Sue baited’ in the way you’ve described) but you’ve clearly actually thought about the narrative and developed a meaningful analysis. ‘Reva critics’ take note - broadly, this is what criticism should look like!
To be fair Grand Inquisitor was doing the whole I don't have to excerpt my energy to get what I want just need to use my force abilitis to get that as for the 5th and 4th honestly I just find it hilarious that the two weakest or bottom tier inquisitors are used to compet with Reva for posistion for standing next to Vader and jet the two still must not do anything to make Reva look capable
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks :) I honestly hate the "Mary-Sue" term but I can see how that trope could unfortunately be applied to parts of Reva's character. Especially at surface value (which is what I am assuming the loudest "critics" are approaching the character at...) I should've worded that part better... I didn't mean to insituate that they INTENTIONALLY 'baited' the audience, but that it was a potential oversight. In reality I think those moments were more of a plot issue than a character issue.
I'm sorry boss, I usually like your stuff but I can't get behind any of your points here. You glossed over a lot of stuff that is egregious in this show to make it seem better than it actually is. And on top of this you are acting in bad faith assuming that Reva is only hated because of race
@@TheMaestroMizerous Honestly I think he did a good job. It’s a shame that he’s typecast so much because he’s genuinely a great actor that should be playing more dynamic roles like he did in *Django Unchained.*
Reva and Leia took the spotlight away from Obi-wan. The show felt like the Leia and Reva show guest starring Obi-wan, not the show I wanted or expected. She gets stabbed in the gut by Vader and somehow gets to Tattooine without help or getting medical attention. That is bad writing. She should have died at Vader’s hands. The Inquisitors that I actually liked were dumbed down for Reva’s sake. Her story arc was done better with Trilla (the Second Sister) in Fallen Order. The story of the Kenobi show echoes moments from Fallen Order with an echo of the Ahsoka vs Vader duel from Rebels at the end. I expected something new, not something that echoes better content from Star Wars previously.
I completely agree. I came to this conclusion myself while and after watching the show and really thinking on it, plus watching reviews like this, and not because I was racist or something (which would be weird for me to do since I am black). It really felt condescending having Pillar of Garbage make the negative discourse around this character out to be one at lest somewhat heavily rooted in racism when that just doesn't seem to be the case from what I've seen, aside from the occasional bad apples in the Star Wars fanbase who suck and shouldn't treat an actress or actor bad because of what they are and not who they are.
This. This is the video I needed to see. Honestly the discourse surrounding SW lately has been so toxic that it’s starting to depress me. I didn’t think Kenobi was perfect, but I tried to keep an open mind and still had a hell of a fun time. And yet, looking at the comments some were making about this show made me unsure if we’d even watched the same series. What worried me most is when there are good friends of mine, people I trust, spouting the same views, even POC. I worry they’re falling down the same rabbit hole I nearly fell into a few years ago when I almost became an SJW/Woke-hating bigot. Thank god there were channels like yours to pull me back from the edge. Anyway, rant over, thanks for the top notch content.
I like people like you, I can bet you managed to go passed 2 episodes in netflixes resident evil TV show. I couldn't. It's important to have pallets with unique tastes, otherwise the world would be boring
What's toxic is this group of fans who have convinced themselves that levying any criticism of the way a beloved franchise is being handled is toxic. All the while cussing out detractors and calling them every istophobe they can think of. You are more than welcome to enjoy Kenobi. You are equally welcome to ignore those of us who didn't.
1. Reva had plenty of opportunities to kill Vader prior to episode 5, but she chose not to for whatever reason. As someone else pointed out, when she did finally take the chance, she did it in the most obvious way possible. 2. She only learned about Luke due to a plot contrivance. 3. Her plan relied on the off-chance that Bail Organa would send Obi-Wan instead of a bounty hunter or an army, which he most certainly has access to. 4. She somehow knows of the connection between Obi-Wan and Leia even though there's no way she would have been able to know that. 5. She's only alive in the first place because Vader somehow didn't kill her the first time despite standing right in front of her. (And Vader not killing her the second time is both moronic and grossly out of character for him.) This. Is. Bad. Writing. The fact that people have made racist comments about her and cried "woke" doesn't invalidate the fact that this show's writing (across the board, not just with Reva) is bad. Do not pretend that it does.
Reva doesn't just know Obi-Wan and Leia are connected for no reason; the actual explanation is in fact *worse* than what you said. Second episode, Reva states she found some old republic logs that tie Obi-Wan to Bail Organa. Setting aside the fact that Bail would've had dealings with multiple jedi during the wars (aka there's no reason for Reva to assume Obi-Wan and he are especially good buds or STILL in contact), now that Reva just conveniently knows about this connection, so do the other Inquisitors. and likely Vader also. Essentially, because Reva's plan does indeed draw out Obi-Wan, Bail should just be done for. What's stopping the Inquisitors from threatening the Organas again and again to draw out Obi-Wan the same way? HOW do the Organas canonically stay afloat another decade? Bail is 100% outed as a jedi abettor. He is not ambiguously against the empire, he should now be like Most Wanted, top priority for the empire, having direct contact with *a* jedi, and so maybe more.
@@kylefrank638 Thought the exact same thing. The Organas should be screwed. In a show with smarter writing *cough* Andor *cough* they would be. Where's the ISB? They'd be all over that like a rash. As OP points out, the writing overall is trash tier, but because some randos on the internet make some racist remarks we now have to pretend this garbage is actually great? Come on.
@@threewiseman1 It's the good ol' safeguard: Studio finds racist people that dislike their stuff, so now all the people badmouthing the new movie/show are lumped in with the racists.
There are valid reasons to call Reva's writing bad. For instance, the reveal that she really wanted to betray Vader was awful - Obi Wan just reading out her backstory. Something like that needs a visual reveal, like her suddenly turning on Vader, giving Kenobi time to escape, and having it explained later. Moreover, there wasn't really anything that gave me the feeling that she wanted to kill Vader, other than being very ambitious, which isn't really that odd for a dark side user. The sum total of 0 set up built up to a flaccid payoff. But the fact that all these people can come up with is that she was "shoehorned in" to meet an "sjw agenda" demonstrates their only problem with her is racism. They never stop to think that she was cast because of the actress' talent - to them, talent is reserved for whites, while the blacks only get in for diversity sake. This video absolutely needed to be made
You're right in that the actress herself isn't to blame, but horrible writing. That scene with them between the blast door is just all kinds of awful. She blames Obi-Wan for not saving her and other younglings. For not stopping Anakin. When in reality, he was coming back from narrowly escaping death on Utapau, to then travel most likely dangerously to Coruscant to liberate the Jedi Temple with Yoda to set the beacon up to tell other jedi to go into hiding, and only until like 2 days ago did he realize he didn't actually stop Anakin on Mustafar. Does it logically make sense for Reva to blame Obi-Wan? In theory it does make sense as Anakin's old Jedi Master and because she doesn't know the full story, but Obi-Wan would have had a perfect argument in his defense. In that scene, Obi-Wan is trying to stall her as well as trying to have her help him in stopping Vader. Why doesn't he tell her what he did to help any other remaining jedi after she was captured? That as far as they knew from the holocrons, Anakin slaughtered every youngling. They didn't know any of them even survived. It would have at least stalled for more time. Instead he just stands in silence and let's her attack his character even though he did above and beyond what many would do. He's the reason why there's not a peak health Darth Vader ruling the galaxy. It's like the writers cared more about telling a certain kind of story over actually following the lore that the prequels created.
Well she was shoehorned in, why create and put in a terrible character with abhorrent writing (and a sub par actress to play that character imo) into a story that 100% didn't need ir benefit from doing so? It was literally just a set up to give her her own show, a shitty new character no 1 asked for or liked is getting her own series already before the fans even had time to react..... If that isn't a shoehorn then literally nothing is
@@Arc_Eden "why create and put in a terrible character with abhorrent writing" The only way this would make sense is if they intentionally made her bad.
Macrowriting - her arc is that she somehow survived a stab through the chest, so decided to become a darkside-using inquisitor who murdered hundreds without hesitation but then eventually redeemed when she decides not to kill one of the truly invincible characters in this story. A serial killer with a huge body count decides to spare one victim right before killing them and now suddenly they are redeemed and all good? This is bad writing. Could be fixed by having her actually written as a spy behind the lines, secretly doing good and helping her victims escape the empire while making it still look like she completed her missions as inquisitor. How awesome would that have been. The "theme" of redemption is taking precedence over the story telling when there is no reason we couldnt have gotten both. Preconceived notion - I liked her a lot in the first episode but then eventually she became a confused contradicting mess. Saying it is "not badly written" is an objective statement. It is also provably wrong by the evidence I gave. Shoehorned - Reva's choices, growth, struggle, past, and eventual redemption are addressed in this. Obiwan is just along for the ride, not acting like you would expect him to based on whats established about him. Obiwan literally being led along by a 10 year old, not actually learning anything he shouldnt already know. He only has the most screentime because of the name of the show. Reva is not a "primary antagonist" she IS the main character (reread what I just wrote for the justification). Screentime and name of the show doesn't define the main character. Fanfiction - It's ok to have her in this show but the show is being disingenuous by claiming it has anything to do with the Obiwan we know from the prequels. It is a bait and switch, nothing to do with entitlement. Idk what this argument has to do with her writing tho. Quiet part out loud - anybody saying she is badly written because of her race is an idiot. Wider conclusions and everything else - I'm incorrectly viewing Obiwan as a project of inconsistencies? I mean.... I can't argue with that. But racism is bad and has no place in star wars.
@@Peasham he’s not redeemed. If he is then that’s stupid too, just as stupid as reva being redeemed here Although killing the emperor is a good first step towards redemption and bringing balance to the force so, actually it’s still less stupid than reva being redeemed for sparing one child
It’s not “her writing”. It’s the whole show’s writing. And it’s all terrible. She just happens to be a new and poorly handled character who’s extremely important to a horrible script.
You and a youtuber named 'Thor Skywalker' should do a debate (or) reaction to each other, it'd be really interesting to see you talk about each others criticisms of kenobi.
First of all: I like your videos and this video doesn't make me dislike you. I just think this video has major flaws in it. I agree there's stupid amounts of racism/sexism/anti-wokism surrounding Reva and how they use "Reva bad writing" as an excuse to justify their animosity towards her race/gender. I completely agree with the points you made about those. But what I think you stumbled on: Just because there's idiots who are racist/sexist talking about Reva, it DOESN'T magically invalidate every criticism towards how she was written. And I don't see how shaming people who do have real valid criticism on the writing are "feeding the racists" does anyone any good as it's an unfair situation. People didn't participate in racism, racists hijacked the discourse. People did nothing wrong and there's nothing they could've done except pointing out the racism. But think about it: What is a person suppose to do then? Just be quiet until only racists are talking"? Because that's what your shaming is insinuating as there's no other option as I said. And then the racists would win if people would censor themselves as they like to hide withing the crowd, gaslighting them to seemingly support their racism. And you took the bait. Point here is that racism is so difficult to fight against and you shouldn't shame innocent people who were used by racists. It always comes out as moral pandering, as if you're saying "If I were you, I would've chivalrously destroyed those racists by... Not saying anything because partaking in any discourse is racist as racists have hijacked the discourse". Racism is hard to fight, but this ain't it chief. Even tho you do that disclaimer at 28:00 minute mark, the whole video ends up being just that you group criticism with racism thus you can ignore it. If you wanted to just shine light on the racist/sexism and how people should be aware that people are using "Reva bad writing" as an excuse and how to potentially spot it and call it out; You failed as you arrive to this message after 30 damn minutes... You should've made a seperate video on the issue. But hey: I will also explain why I think you're wrong (because you seem to grave for a debate, classic video-essayist BTW): First of all: You only tackle to most radical and stupid "points" towards how writing around Reva is bad, (when they're hardly that). I dunno if you know that you were cherry-picking bad arguments you could debate and "win", but that's what you ended up doing. You didn't actually tackle any of the actual arguments towards the writing: You only tackled shitty opinions, shitty views. Arguments contain opinions, but "opinion" isn't a synonym for an "argument". "Reva is bad" is an opinion, not an argument, yet you treated these types of opinions as arguments, making it seem like there is no actual arguments, only opinions. Secondly: In that little test of yours asking people to elaborate why they think Reva's writing is bad is such a small sample from people who probably aren't as well versed in making argument as you'd want them to. I know this might come as a shock, but: People can have opinions without being able to debate them. This whole essay comes out as a hollow, reactionary try to defend bad characters. You say "writing is subjective", so why even make this video? If you think Reva isn't badly written, why do you turn such a clear blind eye to people who say she is? Instead of finding those points, you demanded random people to provide these points instead. Like bruh, IRL you'd be taking up their personal space. And with the points you make how she is "achtually" well written: Were you expecting people to turn around and be like "oh wow you know what: I didn't realize she actually is well written! Oh I'm so stupid and can't understand how humans work, silly me!"? You can shoot the messenger, but you probably still wanna hear the message before that... Maybe that messenger is actually your own that you just shot.
Bad writing … Vader slaughters a whole town … The Grand Inquisitor was almost killed by Reva, but yet they both leave her alive just so she can find a message from Bail that leads her Tatoonie and she immediately knows Luke is with the Lars…. Sloppy writing to continue to plot.
@@zachhecita Maul being alive is due to the sadism of Palpatine. Palpatine playing around allowed Yoda to get back up and fight him evenly and he was lucky not to fall like Yoda did.
Revas whole motivation was to kill awakin to get revenge for the Jedi, how does she get close to anakin in order to do this you ask, by killing jedi and being an inquisitor. The worst thing about it is that everyone knew that Disney would try to portray her as good because you can never have a black character be bad in this day and age(obviously there is exceptions)
@@PillarofGarbage do you think survivors of the Holocaust blame the jews for the Holocaust??? No! Because of course they dont! Not only that but the definitely dont go around commiting genocide against fellow Jews
@@PillarofGarbage she harms civilians as well. They should have committed to her villainy honestly. She should have been allowed to dive deeper in the dark and implode for a proper redemption arc. Doing bad because bad was done to me is not a good thing
Aww what a shame. You were doing so well until you laughably tried to, unironically say Reva’s character and her arc is somehow a better version of Kylo. Not only is Kylo literal leagues ahead of Reva in terms of writing, complexity, depth and development but Reva’s arc is doesn’t even hold a candle to the unique and powerful arc of Kylo Ren. There arcs aren’t even similar except the general theme of redemption being present. Kylo deals with far more complex issues and ideas, of which there are far more. Kylo deals with legacy, with parental neglect, with brutal and unforgiving internal conflict. Reva is just wanting revenge until the end where she makes the right choice. Your video has a lot of validity to it but I audibly scoffed and laughed at the ludicrous claim that Reva is even close to Kylo in terms of writing quality. It’s not even a fair comparison, Kylo is simply a better written character with a far more engaging, detailed and well crafted arc. Reva - 6.7/10 Kylo - 9.3/10
i think reva just fails at a conceptual level. Everything she does could’ve been done by any of the other established inquisitors really and her role did not need to take so much prominence in the series, the focus should’ve stayed on obi wan and vader. It also doesn’t help that nothing about reva feels very alien or menacing compared to the other inquisitors. Even in fallen order, second sister has at the very least a gothic aesthetic, reva just looks like a regular cute lady with a modern haircut, like it’s just hard to buy that she’s a sith. just my two cents tho 🤷🏼♂️
"Everything she does could’ve been done by any of the other established inquisitors really and her role did not need to take so much prominence in the series" are you arguing that you don't think she's written poorly, just that you wish it wasn't a black woman doing these things and instead someone else?
"Everything she does could’ve been done by any of the other established inquisitors" okay. But it wasn't. And why does it matter to you that she filled the role?
@@projektaquarius because if you want to introduce a good character to a story like this you need to make a good case for why that character SHOULD be in the story, and you need to make that new character stand out. If you replace Reva with say the grand inquisitor or fifth brother outside of a few minor details nothing would change. That’s failing at creating a good new character in my opinion and renders them unnecessary to the story.
@@patrickmaybe2197 lmao it really doesn’t matter to me that shes black, it’s that they put so much screen time on a pretty shallow character, mainly to bloat a 6 hour story that could’ve very well easily been a 2 and a half hour (or less) movie. Everything Reva does has zero stakes in this story because we know that nothing she does will have any lasting impact. She’s gonna kill obi-wan? nope, he needs to be in ep 4. Vader? obviously not. Luke? are you kidding me? The only thing she did for shock value was kill the grand inquisitor but of course they brought him back because it would break canon for him to die. Reva is a completely unnecessary character in an already unnecessary story, but that’s another point on its own. Every complaint I have has nothing to do with her race, so don’t make assumptions like that.
@@Mae4Ever She didn't suck. I was aware of people hating on her just by seeing her in the trailers. Some "fans" were skeptical because she was black. Many hated her from the jump because she was a woman. All the cries of "woke" and BS. A lot of this was before the episode of Obi Wan even dropped. .
5he show DID have some writing issues here and there, but thats not the characters issue itself. I do hate how her and the grande inquisitor take a lightsaber to the chest and shrug it off with no explanation. That being said, Reva was actually my favorite part of the series. She was ruthleas and had a good backstory. She was DIFFERENT, not just good or evil, but a darker shDe of grey. I want to see what she does afterwards.
Star Wars films for me have the same kind of Pros and Cons, just at differently levels with a bit of variation. The movies which people like are where the pros are talked about, even if they happen in every film or show. The issues in one movie are going to be leant on via criticism even if all Star Wars media have this con.
The way she was written as a surviving youngling, it kind of reminds me of Galen Marek (Starkiller) being Vader's secret apprentice in The Force Unleashed. I think she was well written as a tragic character, being part of the Inquisitors, much like SPOILER ALERT! Cere's apprentice in Jedi: Fallen Order
The Inquisitors were always a stupid idea writing wise. Why would Palpatine allow more dark side users when his entire plan for the Empire is to have a rule of 2. It is so dumb for Palpatine to allow more dark side users that screw up his plan. Disney is created the Inquisitors mind you. Vader hid and secretly trained Starkiller from Palpatine because he knew Palpatine would not allow another dark side user running about and would contradict the rule of 2.
@@petermj1098 The issue with the inquisitors narratively is that they only exist to give Order 66 survivors a villain they can fight and win against besides Vader. If Vader is constantly trying and failing to kill order 66 survivors, it weakens his character, but as a result, whenever I see Inquisitors try to track down a Jedi, it feels like that Jedi just isn't important enough for Vader, and the only reason they're alive is because Vader just doesn't care enough to track them down. Rebels is perhaps the most egregious example, because Ezra and Kanan narrowly escape Vader, but after this, Vader is just never seen again, and it isn't really explained why.
@@petermj1098yes, let's pretend mara jade never existed. Or that palpatine sees the rule of 2 as he pleases. Insuisitors are lap dogs, they are there to survey the galaxy to make it easier to find surviving jedi. And once their mission was mostly over, they were dealt with very easily
At 12:54 you're completely putting words into that guy's mouth. He's not saying that reva's writing is bad. He's saying that he thinks the reason so many people are mad is because they're trying to make an argument as for why some character isn't good or interesting and people like you are just saying that the only reason people say that is because they're bigots. He may not have seen the show but he's noticed a pattern when people try to point out flaws in characters played by minorities or women. He's even trying to say that the majority opinion can't be overtly racist since the majority opinion is that Finn should have been the main character of the sequels
I think that the show was poorly structured in general (Kenobi). One complaint I have is that the way I interpreted it, the show was linking the fact that Obi-Wan could not communicate with Qui-Gon Jinn with his inability to connect to the Force. They had introduced it earlier in the story and I kept expecting that there would be some payoff to it, that it would play some role to the story... Nah, there was a payoff to it, but it wasn't meaningful to the story other than a cameo at the end. I guess you can say that it brings conclusion to Kenobi's story in the show, but it just seemed short and at a random point in time. Another complaint that I recall having myself and others expressed is pacing. To tell you the truth, I hardly remember the show now so I'd need to revisit it to see if I still think so. It could have been the weekly release that influenced this though. Then you have story decisions, like Vader constantly letting people go. I don't particular understand why he was written to have let Kenobi go the first time instead of going after him on Mapuzo. I don't know how Kenobi and Leia survived the trip to Fortress Inquisitorius. I don't know why Vader let Kenobi's ship go after he learned there was no one on the first ship. I don't know why Reva waited until after Vader was done to try and strike. I don't know why Vader and the Grand Inquisitor let Reva live. I don't know why Kenobi let Vader live only to expect Luke to kill him (unless I'm misunderstanding). I do think Reva's story arc could have been done better. Maybe a hint of her true aspirations. Personally, with the Dark Side, I don't find it unbelievable that she impaled the Grand Inquisitor. Sith are known to betray each other, the inquisitors are trained by a Sith Lord. To me, her sudden reveal that she's out for Vader's neck came out of nowhere. Which I guess one could say the same about Vader's reveal that he is Luke's father, but I grew up starting Star Wars on episode I so that didn't come out of nowhere for me. Honorable mention, I dislike the start of the show where Grand Inquisitor asks the barkeeper if he knows who the Inquisitors are. I think the writers were telling instead of showing here.
The amount of attention Reva got was definitely not a coincidence. But man. It's kind of sad to see a video that's coming so dangerously close to the "criticism of Kenobi is racist" line that the culture war idiots pretend is commonplace. Reva IS badly written, and I'll give some examples in a minute. the thing is, and it makes the racism behind so much of her hate that much more apparent, is that she's still leagues better than every other character on the show, and she doesn't have many problems that are just hers. they're always tangled up with the awfulness of the writing of the other characters. first, there's her whole plan. She finds out Bail and Kenobi were friends during the Clone Wars, so she's gonna draw him out by kidnapping Leia. This is dumb. The show even acknowledges it to some degree having Obi Wan tell Bail to send his personal guard or bounty hunters to get her - which would have been a much better idea. She should have assumed that Bail wasn't the dumbest man alive, would have sent his guard AND bounty hunters and probably a company or two of stormtroopers all at once because that's what he should have done. If Joe Biden had a daughter who was the chosen one, and that kid got kidnapped, it wouldn't matter if the FBI "doesn't know how special she is". That's the child of the president, they're gonna devote ALL their resources to finding them. Likewise, even if every bounty hunter was as shitty as Bail says they are, who cares? in addition to the best payday of their career, they would be getting into the good graces of the royal family of a nice planet. There's a zero chance of someone being competent enough to pull the job off, also being stupid enough to betray his employer in that situation. Finally, finding Leia would have been a huge propaganda opportunity for the empire. This must have been the first time or at least one of the first times, a senator's family was attacked under imperial rule. decisive action would have been an opportunity to tell everyone "we're not like the republic. we will keep you safe, just look what we did for the Organas" in contrast to everything that had happened during the clone wars. there's zero reason for Reva to believe this plan would work except that she knows the writers want it to work. next, her whole reason for wanting Kenobi is to use him to bait out Vader. But she winds up alone in a room with Vader twice, IIRC, without making a move. I'm pretty sure he even came to her one of those times (the time where he choked her), and she could have prepared a trap like planting a bomb so she wouldn't even need to risk it trying to fight him, which she must have known wasn't a sure win. Kenobi should have become irrelevant to her then and there because she had what she wanted but apparently forgot. then there was the scene at the door where she was blaming Kenobi for not stopping Anakin during order 66. He could have (and should have) told her that he was on Utapau being betrayed by the clones and even if he had known what was happening, he couldn't have made it in time to stop him. the worst part about this one is it's 100% a problem with Kenobi's writing, but it stains her too because she gives this obviously wrong opinion and it's just allowed to hang in the air and just ends up making her look worse. and that's just off the top of my head a year after seeing it. This show's writing was abysmal. And the star wars fandom has a huge racism problem. these are two things that can be true at the same time. Funny enough, my overall opinion from the beginning was that Moses had gotten Hayden Christensen'd - she seemed like a good actress who was doing a really good job with the awful material she was given to work with.
No, no, it was really bad... I do agree that Reva's actor got alot of unnecessary backlash, not due to racism, but due to her prominence in a bad show called Obi-wan. Not her fault, its the director. But my real gripe is that the writing was indefensibly bad, not okay, but bad.
I just want to know something before going in on the premiere. is this video going to just attack anyone who doesn't like her and call her racist? Just because if I watch a video where someone just tries to gaslight me into thinking I'm racist for something that isn't. that gets their subscription off of me removed. because I know there were racist attacks to her online but not everyone is. I do not like her character and personally think she is poorly written. However, I think most of kenobi is poorly written not just her. and I don't hold it to moses ingram but well the writers. so how is it racist? saying the writing is poor means the actor has nothing to do with it. in this comment section someone stated their opinion already, respectfully and going off the show yet you respond to them with "It's kinda poetic that people are trying to refute this video before they've seen my arguments + explanations. As those who choose to watch it first will see, premature judgement and leaping to conclusions is... bad." even though the comment wasn't on your video but the show which they have seen. I've seen black people like the great eric july critique her writing. other women. with the same examples and opinions and they are called racist or sexist? I don't understand. honestly, it isn't fair to just assume racism for everything. if someone critiqued a white man, they wouldn't be called but when it's someone more "diverse" then it's a big deal that gets video essays over the "issue". for no real reason because critiquing a character of colour isn't racist. it's more racist of someone to assume that it is though. if not, then I'll give it a watch. I'm just sick of people calling me or others racist or sexist or whatever when it's just not true. black people who I follow literally have been called racist towards black people for not liking reva. also how come lando, rosario dawson playing ashoka, mace windu never face this amount of "racism"? it just confuses me.
Re: your second point, their comment *is* about me, actually - they say ‘I like a fair amount of your videos but this ain’t it’ The video doesn’t claim every critic of Reva or Kenobi is racist. It suggests, evidences, and details a hypothesis of a link between certain critical fan narratives around the show (such as the bad writing complaint) and external patters of bigotry.
@@PillarofGarbage ok but I must say. from the title and thumbnail alone, without the further insight doesn't get that across very well. it just seems like you're another woke leftist racist who spends their life trolling nerdrotic. so even though i was confident as I know you make good content I just wanted to make sure. because many many people try to attempt this topic without literally any of the integrity or understanding you do.
You’re right. Not everyone who hates a woman character is sexist or racist. The good thing about you is that you acknowledged that there was racist hate against her. A lot of people don’t point that out and just say that everyone’s hate comes from hating the character, not that she’s black.
@@brettstalling2269 i think it being covered so widely like it was, made it seem like it wasn't just a few people being racist, and made it seem like it was a large part of the fandom that was racist.
Yeah sorry buddy you aren’t a victim especially if you watch Eric July, a dude who is crafting outrage for views and cry’s about diversity and “wokeness”.
Hello, I generally like your analysis but this time I kind of feel like you missed the point in many criticisms and didn't really address the bad writing but instead seemed to focus on racism. at least from my perspective the bad writing criticism I've heard is that: 1. in a show about Kenobi (who they made a coward), we focused alot of time on a side villain that didnt really grow on screen until near the end. the show started with a static villain and then switched to a 3d villain and thats a betrayal of audience expectations. thats bad marketing and bad writing, if they wanted to make a reva show, name it properly. when writing a story; the book title IS a piece of the writing and sets audience expectations, if you do it poorly than the audience wont like your book and thats bad writing. (but a villain needed to happen so i find this a minor complaint and easy to pass over. but see the ending of GOT to see why last minute redemptions and character personality swaps without build up is bad writing) 2. the redemption arc seemed shoehorned at the last minute and didn't really build properly ( im not saying its a bad idea, you said in your video its a good idea and people should stop saying its bad but that's not the criticism, the criticism its that it was written poorly and the audience usually is the decider in good and bad writing and the general consensus confirms its poorly planned out and poorly expressed. if your audience doesn't like your writing ... then its bad writing) 3. she has no problem torturing and possibly un-aliving Leah but has issues un-aliving Luke? but we didn't see her have to confront that action or face emotional consequences, there was very little growth for us to SEE, we were told there was some growth but where, when? off screen? doesnt count. you gotta show us the growth so it doesnt feel like left field when she magically has issues hurting a child when she didnt two days ago. when most of your audience feels cheated, feels mislead, feels confused, its not a failure on them to understand, its a failure on the writer to communicate. thats bad writing pure and simple. i really wanted to like this show and was excited to see general kenobi but watching it made me and a lot of other viewer feel like it was reva and leahs show and that because the writing was bad at communicating who the show was really about.
I completely agree with every point you made but unfortunately invalidated all of it by you being the reverse of that one rebel leader who called Leia Lee-a. Her name is Reeva not Rayva!!! /s (once again a fantastic video it's nice to see star wars content that doesn't promote toxicity)
Imagine being you, everything the creator of this video said was wrong she’s an objectively bad character and the fans are not toxic for pointing that out. You modern day babies just think everyone with a different opinion is “toxic” 🤓
I found it hilarious that her big plan was to be evil and kill people (implied) for years causing mass amounts of harm all so she could 'get close' to Vader and betray him, but her big plan wasn't to wait until he was weak or to poison him or something but just to run at him from behind, yelling so he knew she was coming... like what!? she didn't need to be grand inquisitor to pull that plan off, or even be any inquisitor at all
We even see on the show how she would kill an innocent man in cold blood. Reva is no different than the other dark force users. OK, she's probably even more murderous than these, apart from Vader.
As you say, her plan doesn't make sense. She doesn't lead him into a trap, just attacks him from behind. She could have done that much earlier.
What is also not explained is why she survived as an initiate, or how she survived in the end. Why is she manipulating the robot when she couldn't have expected Leia to be rescued? She is not Xanatos.
And she ends up wanting to kill Luke for justice? What justice? Reva is a horrible person. She killed who knows how many people and then should she be forgiven for all that because a child reminds her of her dead friends? Kenobi might be able to forgive her as a Jedi, OK, but why should the viewer do that? She didn't do anything to deserve this. And not killing someone is definitely not a reason.
Reva is objectively poorly written on several points, as is the series itself.
@@Jasmin-lg3gf Ok thanks for the reassurance, the video's intro had me doubting myself. I'm really annoyed by how he starts the video saying he's going to refute the "Bad Faith arguments " made against Reva, only to argue that she's not poorly written in Bad Faith.
How could she have gotten Vader alone in a room if she wasn't an inquisitor? Also she's driven by rage so she was overtaken by rage when she had Vader turned around. You say it's bad writing but it's all driven by her character.
@@kinoko5566 On top of that, I would argue that people who say that it doesn't make sense for a rage-filled, nonsensical, narrow minded character to act out of a narrow-minded, rage-filled, and nonsensical way. It's true that there are problems with the show. The aforementioned issues of how a kid could survive getting stabbed with a plasma weapon in the gut or how the same person as an adult could survive the same hit AGAIN certainly need a bit more explanation that it was given and I would say there are other points in the show that could've used better padding or long exposure to make more sense out of it. That being said, I think I'm going to agree with Pillar of Garbage when he said that, in his opinion, the Third Sister's arc is one that is needed and is, for better or worse, a well organized story. No, the show wasn't perfect, but it doesn't seem fair to ask it to be either.
@@mr.badwolf7356 technically we already had examples for how she would survive a light saber stab as a youngling in both legends and Disney that being said if you are going to do something like that then you should give people a reminder as people won't always remember something like that, especially since the previous examples wheren't as apart of the story as Reva's is.
If you’re still interested, I believe I can provide a clearer explanation of Reva’s writing problems than your previous commenters. To make sure I’m absolutely clear, my definition of “bad writing” is when the narrative is inconsistent, or when character motivations don’t make sense or are poorly explained/conveyed.
You said Reva went after Luke in order to draw out Obi-Wan. You made that up. The show never explained why Reva wanted to kill Luke. This is the first I’ve heard of your interpretation. I assumed at first that she was trying to get revenge on Vader by proxy, but then I realized Bail Organa never mentioned Luke’s parentage, so Reva shouldn’t know about it. When Owen asks Reva why she’s doing this, she just says “justice,” and that’s all the explanation we get. I don’t think your guess is right because if she wanted to draw out Obi Wan, it would make more sense to take Luke hostage, not kill him. Reva is at the climax of her arc and we don’t even know why she’s doing what she’s doing. That’s a writing problem.
Furthermore, Reva being unable to go through with the deed is inconsistent. The Reva we have seen up to that point has been portrayed without a shred of humanity. She has been nothing but bloodthirsty and cruel. While we are technically never shown or told of any Jedi Reva has personally killed, but she presumably had to have killed some in order to reach the position she’s in. And she doesn’t hesitate to threaten or kill civilians to draw out Jedi, or cut off people’s hands just for talking back. I could suppose that killing Luke was a step too far because she had never killed a child before, but, similar to what I said above, that would be something I made up. Nothing in the shows tells us that. And if that was the writer’s intention, it’s undercut by Reva seeming to have no qualms with torturing a little girl two episodes earlier.
There’s a Short I posted earlier today which clears your main point up a little :)
@@PillarofGarbage OK, I see where you’re coming from and I could see that being the explanation. I still think you’re filling in some significant gaps with your own ideas. If the writers meant for Reva to be seeking revenge against both Vader and the Jedi, I don’t think they communicated that as well as they should have. They’re not helped by the fact that a grudge against the Jedi would be completely irrational on Reva’s part. Having a grudge against Kenobi makes a little more sense, but again, it wasn’t clear that she would want to hurt him if it didn’t help her get closer to Vader. I maintain that Reva’s motivation was poorly communicated. Of course, I’m speaking from memory several weeks after watching the series, so it’s possible I missed/forgot something.
@@DuneStone6816 why would reva have a grudge against obi wan for something anakin did it’s not like obj wan was around to stop him she knows about order 66 and and has access to the “Jedi archives” as she said so herself when she figured out organa’s connection to obj wan so she must’ve known he was off world during the attack on the Jedi temple so why be mad at him it makes no sense
@@PillarofGarbage This reminds me of Star Trek: Discovery. Literally the same issues where Michael Burnham is labeled a Mary-Sue. However, in S1, they showed you ALL her flaws: she's self righteous, biased, a-social know it all due to her Vulcan upbringing but she loses everything in the first 2 episodes. It takes 3 seasons for her to climb back to No.1/ Captain. She's never rewarded but was saved twice by Captain Lorca (a straight WHITE man) and mentored by Sarek (a straight WHITE man). This show never bashes white men, it just doesn't center around straight white men. In fact Season 1 seems like an isolated anthology story. I thought there would be a new protagonist every season with Pike featuring for most of the season as Captain of Discovery.
Reva had not been portrayed “without a shred of humanity.” Episode 4 has issues, but it *does* give us an opportunity to see Reva’s softer side through her interactions with Leia. Sure, it ends with her trying to torture the information out of Leia, but again - that’s part of the interesting complexity of her character. She has genuinely given into the dark side, and only at the end, when she finds herself trying to kill an innocent child, is she able to look at herself and decide that enough is enough.
First off: It's a little offputting to say that others are acting in bad faith and trying to hide their racism and don't know what they are talking about, and more or less painting all criticism of the character as racist.
I haven't watched the show. And I have no intention of either. Mostly because sources I trust aren't giving it a good review, and I'm sick of prequels.
But I'd like to make one point here about an issue I have with modern writing: They put the cart before the horse.
I will use an example of one of my favorite villains in sci-fi: Char Aznable in Gundam.
I pick him because he too holds a grudge against the Zeons current rules who killed his father to grab power. Over the course of the show we see how Char has positioned himself to kill off the whole dynasty of the rulers.
Although in the first episode, that's less than 30 minutes. We are only introduced to the mysterious Char wearing a cool red uniform and rides the Red Zaku where everyone else is green. He's the Red Comet, an obvious Red Baron reference. He's cool, calculated and capable. And yet a seed of the mystery is planted in that first episode by another character who calls him "Casval" and "my brother." Indicating that there's some reason why Char wears his mask, and a deeper story to him. The horse is infront of the cart. Char is more than meets the eye, the odd outfit isn't just to look cool. (Actually they don't explain that until a much much later prequel series, one of the few prequels I personally think lifted the original story.)
And yet, for Reva this video is telling be "oh it's all part of the plan, just keep watching." That right there is proof of bad writing, the cart is in front of the horse. The writer thinks you will watch the whole story, so they treat it like a movie. That's a mistake. You have one episode to make your case. If people don't like a character by the credits enough to keep watching, you failed. Especially if it's not a show I can binge watch. You expect me to care in a week? That's what *I* mean when *I* say poorly written. It's poorly written from a conceptual stage.
If you want the character's motivations to be hidden, then hide it. Don't hint at it at all in the first episode. What is the character trying to be? That's what I need to be drawn into. If it's ment to be a mystery or deeper complexity to the character then you need to present this early on. If you ask me, the scene with the Younglings should maybe have been in the first episode. I think that would work better for the character. Let us think that many younglings were indoctrinated to be inquisitors. It seems like Reva is a character we are supposed to be feeling some sympathy for? Well why isn't that made abundantly clear in the first episode?
If it's supposed to be a mystery, then you need to go the Char route, show that she's a renegde, but stil la damn good soldier. Reva comes off as a lower rank goon. Of all the "we made another Darth Vader clones" out there she seemed the less intimidating. Which is another issue. On the surface she looks like nothing new. We have seen angry person in black be the villain in Star Wars spin-offs before. Even THAT is bad writing. Sure her backstory is cool, but backstory isn't what we see in promotions and how she's presented in the first episode. And that IS bad writing.
Either I should care about the villain as is, like Darth Vader, or I need to know they are "complex" very early on, like Char and Kylo Ren.
What I don't need is a character that comes off as something that's not appealing, and then be told that "oh she get's better later, it's complex" Why not be good from the first episode. It doesn't take much honestly. If somethings supposed to be "mysterious" then make damn sure people KNOW that. From what I can tell Reva in the first episode isn't presented as such.
Especially for Star Wars which have been on very shaky ground for so long many of us aren't really willing to invest in "it's okay, maybe it get's better." When... many of the times it didn't. The Sequels went from bad to worse. The Mandalorian was awesome, but The Book of Boba Fet seems to have failed to understand what made the Mandalorian good.
You haven't even seen the show and yet you were so unsettled by the topic of this video that you felt compelled to respond w an irrelevant essay (yknow, since you haven't watched the show in question)? 🤣😭
If that's not evidence of the exact ignorant vitriol Pillar of Garbage is referencing, I don't know what is lol. Thanks for proving his point
@@philosopher9672 It was a pretty interesting read. Don't be too proud of yourself.
Originally this WAS supposed to be a movie. Reva was pretty darn cool but the pacing in this show was all over the place. That said.... it's actually kind of worth it just to get to the final two episodes. But yes there are some big problems and even bigger missed opportunities.... but it's way better than AotC or RotS. TPM still kicks ass.
@@philosopher9672 I completely disagree. And I laid it out in my answer. The main reason I wrote it is because he branded almost every critic of Reva as a racist, which you parot. And yet his whole argument is "it get's better later"
My argument is: You do not have "later," you only have now. First you need to capture peoples attention and imagination with the trailers, and then with the first episode.
Star Wars as an IP is on shaky ground when it comes to quality, so the trailers and first episode has to be TOP NOTCH to get people like me to watch. Even then you need to have good reviews, and not this sort of "you are racist for not liking her" stuff.
The Mandalorian had all that. This show? Not so much.
@@IDieHardForever I still wonder if I would have been sold enough on her from the trailers, something about her compared to the other Inquisitors just feels off.
But, at least you'd probably reduce the now created tension of "but it get's better"
It's that attitude that you just can't have with modern streaming.
It works for Star Trek TNG and DS9 etc, because those were serialized, and people would one day maybe tune in to some random episode and be hooked, even though the first episode was bad.
But modern series are built from you watching from the start, but the start needs to be good. (Heck that's why pilot episodes used to be higher production value in the past as well)
When people fail to understand the characters motivations, or mistake the actors delivery, then it's not really well crafted is it?
I would estimate it’s more of an issue of bad writing as a whole. When writing characters you need character consistency across the story as the story adjusts to your character. Bad writing comes in when writers compromise the characters development so the plot can happen.
If you establish your character is intelligent and resourceful but in order for the plot to progress your character becomes oblivious and dumb for that one scene then the next is back to being intelligent and resourceful you’ve broken your character.
Long story short: if your having to constantly flip-flop a character back and forth in your story to make your plot work then you should probably take a second look at your plot.
The video littarly goes over this. And I'm not even done with it yet.
Dude watched with the volume down
@@Zapatote I'm not even sure he watched the video.
Mate plenty of people have called out the poor writing of the prequel series. Especially all the cringe that was the Anakin and Padme romance. There is no hypocrisy here.
I might like the prequel movies but, I can't ignore the inconsistencies of the writing. I feel that the point POG was making here only comes down too. "It's your opinion but, your racist if your opinion is different from mine." With plenty of mental gymnastics and cherry-picking comments from his previous video (That probably did answer his questions on why the writing is poor but let's forget about it anyway.) Followed by poop emoji.
Kenobi is poorly written, but seems like Breaking Bad when compared to the prequels.
And there are plenty of people who do NOT believe the Prequel Trilogy was badly written. If you want to point out those who didn't like the Prequel Trilogy . . . fine. But is it that impossible for you to acknowledge there are those who are big fans of that trilogy? Hell, I don't like the Sequel Trilogy. But I refuse to pretend that everyone disliked it. Because I know that is not true.
@@juanitajones6900 What are you trying to argue here? People also liked Kenobi. The video is trying to discredit the criticisms toward Reva and Kenobi by claiming the Prequels didn't get the same criticism for the same issues when they did.
@@reggaemarley4617 I know that there are people who liked or loved "Obi-Wan Kenobi". But those who didn't, either claim that no one did or tend to express vague or unsupported reasons why they didn't.
Right so she spends a decade hurting and murdering innocent people, to ultimately get revenge on Vader (for doing the evil things that she is currently doing), but she also hates the Jedi (for fighting and dying trying to protect her and the other younglings) which makes a lot of sense. Then the moment she decides not to murder Luke (who she doesn't know anything about), she fully redeems herself for all the atrocities she's committed. This was very deep and not at all predictable. There certainly weren't any youtubers who predicted this exact set of events before the first episode even premiered.
I disagren. So, you are a racist :v
What a twist.
You say that like half of even good star wars content isnt predictable
@@hefoughtabear118 I guess? Doesn't seem super relevant. We're talking about current Disney/Star Wars's flagship show, and the main antagonists entire arch not only was accurately predicted by many people before it even aired, but made no fucking sense
"Have I become him?"
"Lmao wut...? you've been a wannabe Vader for years now. You hurt and kill innocents for ur own gain. What are u talking about..."
@@tonytheoni like I said, being predictable doesnt lend to being a bad thing as many have predicted the entirety of the mandalorian for example. Also we dont actually know what Revas done during her time as an inquisitor
"That would make her the one thing she spent her life trying to destroy..."
She literally has killed and aided the killing of hundreds of Jedi and civilians. I hate how all criticism is deflected by saying that all the criticisms are racially charged attacks. That is the MINORITY of opinions. You ignore all of the valid criticisms in service of the actually racist opinions.
Edit:
As well as that, you go on to say that the opinions about the writing of the show is entirely subjective, but you never once throughout the video seem to follow this idea. You claim that the writing is "good", but never mention anyone's actual greviences against the giant plot holes in the story and inconsistent character beats.
while there are character inconsistencies, and maybe plot holes (however much that really matters to Star Wars), his point is that her critics are sometimes outwardly racist, and sometimes reaching for things to complain about. There are worse written Star Wars inquisitors, but people don't seem to complain about the grand inquisitor or the 7th sister and fifth brother. Those inquisitors are less intimidating, less interesting, poorly developed, and basically gimmicky stormtroopers. When the haters don't like Reva because she has "bad dialogue", "screams weird" or "knows Anakin is Vader", they aren't addressing topics that are big deals. Instead, they are focusing on minor issues that, while they're, do not matter. Do not pretend that Reva is a bad villain by Star Wars standards. You are allowed to complain about her, but then do not turn around and talk about how much you love the prequels, sequels, or Rebels when they have the same issues, but magnified. PS: race is most likely brought up because the actress received slurs in her dm's.
@@hughmcmahon1895 Not at all denying the fact that there are incredibly racist bigots out there, and that her character specifically received hate for things that are ridiculous. What I'm trying to say is that this video fails to at all mention the valid criticisms, and only really addresses that side of the story. And I personally think this show and this new Era of star wars has been mediocre and terrible in some aspects as a whole, and Reva isn't the only example of bad writing.
@@hughmcmahon1895 I also think that the character got a lot of flack because she serves as basically the main antagonist in the show. While there are worse inquisitors, she gets a massive amount of screen time, and that makes for a messy show due to the character writing and inconsistencies, at least for me.
She never killed children though. That was the last line she couldn't cross. Notice how she acts when she decides to torture Leia. She starts whining and justifying it to herself. It's clear that children are her last straw.
Subjectivity is the death of all reality.
Pillar of Garbage is a blind man, because Reva DOES have objectively bad writing. The ENTIRE SHOW has objectively bad writing, and there's PROOF of that. I'm so sick of people defending bad things for the sake of "opinion". Like, sure you can like it, but you can't say that it's good just because you do. Subjectivity is a plague on the freedom of fact, and facts don't care about one's feelings.
And the fact of the matter is, Reva with the way she was written, was and is a BAD character. So much potential just nerfed.
My issues with Reva from a writing perspective:
1) Knowing what we do about Reva, why is she so maliciously evil to the point the other inquisitors need to tell her to calm down? She cuts a woman's hand off, threatens to kill Owen and his family, presumably hangs a jedi, presumably is involved in the hunting of those other jedi in fortress inquisitorous, tries to kill luke, tries to kill obi-wan.
A response I got to this from another commenter was..."I wouldn’t say Reva was “maliciously evil.” She shows sympathy towards Leia when she’s holding Leia prisoner. However, she is single-minded and ruthless in her pursuit of revenge, and that leads to her doing whatever is necessary to move forward with her goals, lashing out at anything between her and her endgame of killing Vader."
I responded back with..."It doesn't explain why she would help vader kill other jedi. She is angry at vader for killing her friends mentors so why would she do exactly what he is doing. It makes no sense and doesn't show any self awareness until the end when she realises "oh my god im just like vader by killing this kid" terrible writing. A better option would be if she was actually helping jedi escape vader but in ways that still made her look competent at her job. Maybe she is very good at finding them and capturing them but always leaves a way for them to escape when under watch of the other inquisitors."
2)How does Reva survive a lightsaber to the stomach twice?
3)If the grand inquisitor didn't die, wouldn't Reva now be seen as a traitor? Why do vader and the other inquisitors allow her to continue doing what she does?
4)Why wouldn't vader make sure Reva is dead after he stabs her knowing who she is and knowing she has already survived the same injury?
5)Why doesn't Reva read Owen's mind in episode 1
6)How is reva redeemed by not killing Luke when she was the one putting him in danger in the first place?
7)why has reva never tried to kill vader before the end of episode 5?
8)why does she sneak up on vader only after the ship escapes and he is no longer distracted?
9) how did reva get ahead of leia in the secret tunnel?
10)why does reva try to kill luke?
11)how did reva get off the planet in episode 5 after the empire and resistance leave?
I would also like to point out that none of these criticisms has to do with the actor's race or gender and are based solely on the writing of the show.
don't bother, he can't answer them and you'll only end up being called a racist, sexist, nitpicker, fandom menace or whatever else.
There is no good defense for the show, and problems related to Reva are minor when compared to stuff between Knob and Vader or the full structure of the show. It's all rotten.
@@miqvPL I don't think you give Pillar enough credit. I'm confident that he will be able to respond with respect and appropriateness. Personally, I don't think that any defense can stand against my criticisms but that is for others to try and change my mind as well as I theirs.
@@armoredghost918 oh, not by him, by star wars fans mostly.
It's easy to pick on star wars "haters", but I find the star wars defenders to be the most toxic part of the fanbase. Especially the person in charge of SW twitter account.
A lot of these feel like general criticisms on the show's writing, not exactly criticisms of Reva's character. Small plot inconsistencies or unanswered questions that have little to do with her character arc.
And a few of those questions are a little bit irrelevant. Like, I don't think the method Reva used to fly to Tatooine is the most important question to spend precious time answering.
@@matti.8465 Admittedly a bunch of those are general criticisms of the show's writing but they are my issues surrounding Reva and they are relevant. From a writing perspective it is important understanding how a person gets from point A to point B.
Regarding Reva's transport it opens up many questions:
Did the empire leave her a ship? Unlikely now that she is seen as a traitor and Vader tried to kill her.
Did the rebels leave a ship? Unlikely again as why wouldn't they use that in their escape?
Did she find a random port miles away? Maybe, who knows?
An example of this done well in another movie was in Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl. In this movie two of the main characters are marooned on an island. One of the characters cleverly figures out a way to signal for help. Those who come to the rescue then have an important part in the third act of the film. This accomplishes how the main characters are able to get back into a story logically and shows the intelligence of the characters.
The problems I have with Reva are 2:
1. Her plan to became an Inquisitor to kill Vader is just nonsense. The way it is tought and executed makes it a bad plan. Why taking revenge on someone because he killed everyone you loved by enetring a group of people that essetially lives to kill? Why attack Vader after a battle when he can hear you coming and not during one, or sneak up in his room, on kill him when he is on the bridge?
2. the decision to kill luke. Why would she try to kill Luke? Does she know he is the son of Anakin, and even why would she thnk that Vader knows it? Is it for Obi-Wan? Why? She has beef with Vader not Obi-Wan, the enteirity of the "catch Obi-Wan thing was to get close to Vader.
Reva is a well-written character (for Star Wars standards)
@@reek4062 u gotta have an extra chromosome that's your only excuse for being this dumb
The fact she waits 10 years, killing more of her former fellow jedi in the meantime, then finally makes an attempt on Vader... and it's not even when he's properly distracted... it's just the worst. She does it when she does only for the sake of the show's structure, not because it made a lick of sense strategically.
As for why attack Vader, I feel like this could've been easily fixed. Instead of the two escaping ship ruse, just have it so that Reva attacks him while he's holding their ship, and her attack is what makes him lose focus and lets them escape.
@@reek4062 Anakin. Ahsoka. Rex. Fives. Kanan. Trilla. Luke. These I think really well-written charachters. If you have arguments I will be happy to hear them.
Reva: “I will avenge the dead younglings by siding with the people that killed them while actively engaging in murder of innocents”
Reva: “killing Owen’s child will solve all my problem”
💩
You're racist now!
and then she realized she was wrong.
@@seekingabsolution1907
But she was about to kill an innocent kid
not to mention the dozen of jedi she probably killed in cold blood to avenge the jedi...
Her writing was not perfect but her writing is pretty much equal to most central characters in the show. So her being the most criticized is kind of telling…
Edit: I’m condemning the explicit racist criticism given to her character, if you yourself did not like the character for completely understandable reasons then I’m not talking about you.
She wasn't the most criticized, but the situation was so widely covered that it seems bigger and wider scale than it actually was. The few racist comments do not reflect the entire fandom, nor should we assume it does.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp fair enough.
No don’t blame it on race now I’m black and I to think she was the worst written character in the show
@@jakarisoolive3841 and that’s your opinion. I’m not trying to insinuate that her race is the exclusive reason she’s flawed character wise although I see why you would think that’s what I meant. She has been the bud of many criticisms that are racially charged which is what I’m condemning. Not the people who hate her for understandable reasons.
@@AnthonyBurton I mean, she definitely does have character development so that's a weird, not to mention inaccurate thing to say.
A character doesn't go from murderous to remorseful without development, they even spell it out for you.
Reva actually fits perfectly into Kenobi's arc in the show. Him going from being too stuck in his regret that he couldn't save Anakin, to being willing and brave enough to move forward and save others. On a literal level, saving Reva redeems that his failure to save Anakin. And on a thematic level, her having to be pulled away from her vengeful fixation on Anakin to realize that it's hurting others, mirrors Kenobi's arc. But people say she's "shoe-horned" because they didn't want to see her saved. They wanted her put in her place... because they're racist.
Edit: Looking through this comment section and.. Jesus media literacy is fucked.
My problem was that I called Reva's backstory from the very first scene in the show. "Oh, she's a surviving Youngling and she's undercover to get Vader." I was hoping there'd be some kind of swerve, like it was her CHILD that was a Youngling and killed by Vader, which would have made her a bit more sympathetic, I think. And they could have played the parent-child relationship against Obi-Wan and Leia, or Owen/Beru and Luke. But nope, it was exactly as I had guessed, and the direction, the acting, the writing simply couldn't add more dramatic dimensions to it than were immediately evident to me.
Also since they showed the Flashback we immediately figured out what her deal was, but the show kept acting like we had no idea
That's not calling it, that's them telling it to you
@@Warriorten10 Then why did the show act all coy about it? When Obi-Wan pieces it together, it's played like some big revelation, but that's only to HIM, not the audience. Like I said, I expected at least some kind of swerve in the mix, but no... it was exactly as it was presented, but they tried to have their cake and eat it too by playing it all mysterious.
@@LordCornshoe
Well! It’s your opinion. You could have stop watch it if you have loss your suspension; but you didn’t. You kept on watching it.
Someone would have complained that the value of the character is tied to motherhood.
Unlike the majority of the fanbase, I never had problem with Jar Jar and didnt even seen anyone being hateful to the actor. But I can understand why they think and feel that this comic relief character was just too annoying for them. The very important thing that Pillar left out that the actor multiple times clarified that the harrasment was from the Media critics, not from the star wars fans. And, I never heard someone criticize him because he is black, many people didnt even knew that the actor is black, but still criticized Jar Jar the character.
Or there is Rose Tico, I personally didnt liked her character. She was very badly written and uninteresting, who is just doing stupid things and have cringe lines. The casino planet plot was totally pointless and unnecessary, what just can be cut out of the movie. Then her character becomes totally idiotic and prevents Finn's sacrifice moment, despite knowing that the First Order just will kill them and the remained Resistance. And in the end the writers finished this poor character with one of the most cringe lines in the entire star wars, whats in that scene was totally ruined her. But criticising that this is a bad character makes you a racist I guess, Disney said so.
The problem is that Disney Star Wars and some fans like Pillar would take these characters and hold them up as some trump card against the valid criticism. Disney itself constantly bringing up and focus on the race and gender of these characters to virtue signal how progressive they are, then use their race and gender as an excuse why the "'racist & sexist fans" dont like them. They declare that its just simply cant be that these are poorly written characters, and every criticism must be because racism, sexism, etc. Pilllar said and implied multiple times in this video that if you criticise these characters its "might" be because you are just manipulated by extremist Right-wing propaganda or you unconsciously are a racist and all this rhetoric. These people are the ones, who feel the need and wants to make this a racism issue, because its so much easier to win a debate when you label everyone with criticism as a racist or unconsciously racist.
It’s flat out insulting. This is the exact method used during the Vietnam war, which had people who didn’t support it labeled as communist.
Ah yes, I remember in the early aughts sending hate mail and death threats to that guy whose face and name I never knew because... I was slightly annoyed by Jar Jar. Probably the stupidest myth these people ever came up with.
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS Thank you. I don't know about everybody else. but I sure as hell didn't know what the skin color the actor was. Jar jar was clumsy and stupid. And I think some fans would have been able to look past that, If he was at least useful.
For once I agree, these examples were really not about race. I didn't even knoe Jar Jar's actor was black.
eeh, he said that his point isnt that "everyone who express criticism to Reva, or "diverse" character is racist by default" He literally said that there is a racist side that contaminated the popular criticism, and yes, Disney is a Shit company that does the bare minimum to get money, and one of the strategies is to make themselfs look good, is with bare bone diverse characters. The problem is, when instead of directing the bad stuff to the lazyness of the company, they start focus on the "diverse" aspects, intead of "do diversity but build something cool about it" ended up being "Diversity bad". And yes, the generalization doesnt help. Going back to pillar is, as far i understod, the "criticism" would be ok if it wast just "she doest fit" but "they didnt succeed making her a full character, per their intentions in the narrative". Or something, sorry mi english is shit.
watching this and realising almost every single point made in this video played out for the acolyte, as well as the fact that it didn't have a ewan mcgregor to force disney to defend their actors is really upsetting. And to pour salt into the wound the show got cancelled despite how much a second season would have benefited it.
The person at 17:48 is not being nonsensical when they say the story is supposed to be about Kenobi. It becomes nonsense if you bizarrely take that to mean his character is the only one allowed to be on screen, but the point is that Obi-Wan should be what the story revolves around. Reva does not revolve around Obi-Wan. Reva's center of gravity is Anakin and her past, and how Obi-Wan factors into her story is entirely tangential. Likewise, how Reva factors into Obi-Wan's also lacks substantive character interaction.
And if Obi-Wan Kenobi was supposed to be about Obi-Wan, that's the grounds by which you can say Reva was shoehorned it. Because her arc and his both play out entirely independent of who the other is.
Imagine if the Prequels weren’t about Anakin Skywalker but another newly introduced character the viewers don’t care for, like Jar-Jar.
Yeah, I disagree strongly. A key area of old man Kenobi’s character the show explored was the guilt and shame he felt due to his perceived failings in the past - a sense of responsibility for Anakin and what kinda seems like Order 66 survivor’s guilt being two of this focus’ major prongs.
Both of these pressures pushing Ben down converge in Reva - who sees her current state/childhood fate as resulting directly from these two things - order 66 + Anakin’s turn. By bringing Reva into conflict with Kenobi, the show is able to ask how responsible Kenobi was for the unintended consequences of his actions (and inactions), and to ask if this blame can be mitigated by new, ongoing efforts for good. This, of course, is developed nicely in the Kenobi/Vader rematch, with Vader reframing Anakin’s death and claiming the responsibility/agency for this development - and also in Kenobi’s initial reluctance and eventual acquiescence to helping Tala and co.
On a character level Reva was not in conflict with Obi-Wan. She was in conflict with Vader. Her involvement with Obi-Wan was rooted purely in tactical consideration: what Obi-Wan meant to Vader, not what Obi-Wan meant to her. And what he meant to her is nothing, as far as we could tell. In the same way Han Solo meant nothing to Vader when Vader froze him in carbonite. It could have been Mace Windu or Oppo Rancisis and her arc would have played out the same way, save that it's Vader's connection to Obi-Wan that makes the plot.
As for Obi-Wan's end of the relationship, the pressures you identify converge in Vader, not Reva. Obi-Wan's arc is about spiritual rejuvenation. Which moment can you point to where who Reva is as a character impacted Obi-Wan's development along that path? Again, I'm talking about on a character level, not mere plot. To go back to Han Solo and Vader: Han shooting Vader's fighter out of the trench didn't establish a connection between their two characters. Obviously Reva was responsible for a number of plot advancements, such as when she revealed to him that Vader was still alive. But his subsequent emotional reaction wasn't to her character, it was to Anakin's. When did who she was as a person connect and engage with Obi-Wan?
The very end, maybe, after both of their arcs had already been resolved separately from each other. She redeemed herself without any help from Obi-Wan, he restored himself without any help from her.
Honestly, as much as I want to see your opinion as reasonable, I just don't see any of the things you are talking about. You keep referring to Reva's redemption arc as if it was foreshadowed or well set up, but I can't see a hint of that. Up until episode five, she is an unrepentantly evil, violent sociopath, WHO TORTURES 11 YEAR OLD KIDS, and lives in a fortress with pickled younglings. She cuts off hands for talking back to her, kills and threatens without hesitation, attempts to kill her commanders so she can move up the ranks. She acts like a textbook power hungry Sith for the entire show, showing no compassion or remorse at all. You can't just suddenly say "Well she just wants to avenge the younglings" when she has been doing exactly what Vader did. If she didn't try to torture Laia and was portrayed as being a bit less egger to do horrible things to literally anyone, than that would have been effective foreshadowing/setup, suggesting there is more to Reva than is immediately visible. But seeing as that was not done, and much of her motivations, such as why she tried to kill Luke in the last episode, where never explained. I'm sorry, but that's objectively terrible writing. They tried to make her menacing but didn't succeed. They tried to make her a redeemed character, but utterly failed, cuz not committing one murder of an innocent child does not absolve you of all the others. I can't see that as anything other than a character who had a lot of potential but was written abysmally. Just because a lot of people in your comments section could not explain this does not mean the writing is actually good. It just means many don't bother to think for themselves. And no, this is not about racism, black characters like Mace Windu and Lando are fan favorites to this day, so to say that we are hating on a good character purely for her skin color is simple BS.
Reva didn't have bad writing, the hole show had it. One full series dedicated to "expand" Obi Wan's lore didn't add anything of value, also introduced some elements that one could argue breaks continuity.
I don't generally go all grammar police on comments, but in this case I think it is appropriate.
As you cannot even write a comment on a video on the internet without making completely elementary writing errors, I find that you are completely unqualified to determine "bad" writing.
Hole - a noun that refers to an opening in something. Like a hole in your pants or a hole in the road.
Whole - a noun, adjective, or adverb that refers to something being or becoming complete and/or restored.
@@VinnyVidiVintage not being english my first language I deeply appreciate the analysis on the grammar. As for the qualifications needed to give an opinion... I hope it's a light joke and not a lame attempt on what young people call "bait" lmao
@@VinnyVidiVintage Look at you, acting as if someone can't have an opinion because a small grammatical error thats not in their native language. Goofy ahh boy
reva literally just shows up at the end to try and kill luke skywalker for no reason. and more importantly, does anyone remember when getting stabbed with a lightsaber was a bad thing? and on a third note, her sole purpose in star wars is to insult the fans and call them racist.
That's not her insulting fans, its the producers and these new consumers.
Neither of you watched anything past the original trilogy and definitely didn't read legends. So much for being star wars fans.
@@lunakingsley.7247 okey dokey "Luna" pffft
@@IDieHardForever I wonder if you know what Luna even means.
@@lunakingsley.7247 You could have chosen Athena or something cool for your feminine moonchild name but I'm guessing you felt "called" to give yourself the most common new-age BS imaginable after your reiki master told you that the crystals from Lumeria, seconded by bigfoot and Sophia said "Luna.... and her true name is Luna".
Hey you wanted to play so let's play.
Honestly, I agree with most of what you’ve said. The character does get an undeserved amount of hate but i do think bad writing did affect the perception of her character for long time fans it just wasn’t her that had the bad writing.
There are a handful of things that we know about the Inquisitors and they tried to make her an exception to all of it which makes her feel out of place in the show.
For example, the Inquisitors do not have names but Reva does. Every one of them is referred to by a number with the exception of the High Inquisitor. This is meant to dehumanize them both in universe and to the audience. These killers aren’t the men and women who Palpatine had captured for Vader’s Inquisition, they are the the tools forged through torture and nurtured by hatred. They also made numerous references of her joining as something voluntary instead of it being no choice at all.
And with your point of Reva playing the character of an Inquisitor. I agree whole heartedly and there were little things that could have helped clear that up. Like showing doubt in a quiet moment after mauling a civilian, a moment of weakness after strapping Leia to the torture machine, or her looking at the frozen youngling. I think in screen writers tried to sell her too hard as genuine threat instead of showing us that there was something deeper there.
Agreed. This lack of conflict with her own actions made her a generic villian..villain... not somebody to empathize with... this making her actions at the end feel discongruent
I’m going to guess that we’ll get some kind of explanation for a lot of Reva’s quirks in supplementary materials, and then a bunch of the fans will pretend that those details fleshed out after the fact make up for the shortcomings and holes in the writing of the show. (Disclaimer: I loved this show, liked Reva, but it’s not perfect.) we’ve been playing this game with Star Wars since the EU in the days of the OT, and particularly since the prequels. I am a bit puzzled by people suddenly being *this* up in arms about such relatively minor continuity quirks when… pretty much the whole series has been plagued with these things. I’ll criticize all of it, but I still love Star Wars.
@@MaleusMaleficarum her arc could have been improved simply by shuffling around a lot of the moments that were already there in the story. I understand having Luke in danger near the end made sense to raise the stakes the highest from an outsider’s perspective, but I think that should have happened earlier. This requires imagining the whole plot playing out in a very different order, but imagine Reva tries to kill Luke, realizes she can’t do it, THEN you see the reveal that she was an Order 66 survivor. Then that moves to her attempted confrontation with Kenobi, who then has justification to see there’s still good in her… then Reva turns on Vader outright, deliberately protecting the Jedi Underground Railroad in the process. She’s reasonably more redeemed, played out in that order. Perhaps then we even see Obi-Wan rescue her, we tie up the loose ends there (so Disney gets to keep her alive to keep putting her in movies and shows for the next 300 years,) and then that leads into the final Vader vs. Kenobi confrontation.
@@bellowingsilence that is a much better story arc... for both her AND obi Wan.
On your point about dropping hints of her true intentions one could argue that the reason she doesn’t have moments that you described is because she has gone so far down the path of revenge and the dark side that she has become the very person she hated and swore to destroy. Her actions taken against Leia and the innocents she harms she reveal that she was becoming more like Vader.
This show was so bad as a whole, Reva was just major part
The writing was so dumb, they turned Obi Wan into a bumbling idiot and Reva was easily one of the worst villains I’ve ever seen in all the star wars media I’ve experienced. And that’s just the surface stuff
The prequels already turned Obi-Wan into an idiot
NO ITS FUCKING NOT
Granted this is just my 0.02 cent opinion, but the mental gymnastics In order to explain and justify Revas character in a mediocre show is quite remarkable. The show’s plot is just not satisfying as part of the entire SW storyline. Reva is a supporting character. Nothing against Moses Ingram…. Just doesn’t make sense that you’re mortally stabbed by a lightsaber and then you just “bounce” back? Among other problems within the writing. make Make of that what you will.
I appreciate the work you put into this to get your perspective across, but this for me is not about “racism”….. the inconsistencies and plot holes just make this show not enjoyable. Just my 0.02 cents
Well in SW you can get sliced in half and bounce back too lol
The dark side blah blah blah
@@rachelle6658 I never liked Maul returning from the dead. Him returning in only what if scenarios would be better
@@rachelle6658 Its more consistent in Star Wars that people die when you run a lightsaber through them. Maul continuing to live has create precedent for contrived plot armor 🙄
agreed. The TH-camr tried; A for effort and all that lol but the stance is BS. Show sucked; Writing sucked. Period. End of story.
@@budgiecat9039 sucked how exactly?
I just started watching the vid but I 100% agree. Ive been wating for a video that talks about this. From some comments I've seen I expect this comment section to be a dumspter fire. A certified Star Wars fanbase moment if you will.
'Star Wars fanbase incident', 31st July 2022
I just want to prove how wrong you are from my point of view the comments have been pretty tame everyone is just sucking Disney’s dick and giving no pushback in the comments I believe that all the real Star Wars fans have left and all that we have now are Disney Star Wars fans and you guys just consume and put no thought into the quality of a product so you won’t get any pushback in the comments. It’s just been literally just Disney NPC‘s fan Girling over how a video went out of their way to justify bad acting and a badly written character
If you actually took a look at what ppl are upset ab, you might understand bc it’s really not that complicated and has NOTHING to do with her race or gender. Disney KNEW they were making a show about her and not Kenobi, which is why they warned the actress “fans are racist” bc they KNEW ppl would be upset at them hiding what the actual show is, and if they call it racism before it even happened it absolves them from any criticism after it comes out, it’s very clear what their strategy is here 😂
@@thinkmcfly376 The show is about Kenobi. He’s the protagonist, as well as the main POV character, and he has the vast majority of the screentime.
@@PillarofGarbage the literal climax of the show is reva turning back to the light side. We got a shitty quick fight with some cool dialogue at the beginning of the finale but the actual climax of the entire show was reva turning back, NOT what we were sold on being “the rematch of the century” it was blatant false advertisement, if you go watch the trailers none of them accurately show what the show is about, she was made the lead. Obi Wan is a passive character idc it’s from his POV, stuff happens TO him not BECAUSE of him in this show, and Reva is the driving force behind the action, she is the lead of the show and it ruined it for fans bc that is not what we were sold on. No issue with her race.
You could re-release this vid and just change a couple lines here and there and it would perfectly map onto the "fan" response to The Acolyte
Reva definitely would've come off as a more interesting character if we saw more conflict within herself offscreen. The fact that she yells ruining her intended surprise assassination attempt is a cursory glance at flawed writing. Same with the notion that she was yelling at Obi Wan fleeing in the transport ship, with stereotypical cliche' lines of "We will destroy you!" while angrily brandishing her lightsaber.
I think the writers have bit off more they could chew, and didn't know which direction they wanted to go with her. Be someone as conflicted in her path of vengeance, or fully commit to her sort of brash, ruthless, arrogant approach. Personally, I would've prefer her being not really ruthless but conniving. Trying to one-up the inquisitors, and drum up conflict, whilst thinking she is one step ahead of everyone with her hubris. Or if they really wanted to stick with the conflicted inquisitor, forced to keep appearances and driven by vengeance, and resists the dogma that is perpetuated from most dark side practitioners it would've been a lot more interesting.
Reva had a lot of potential in creating something good, the Second Sister was definitely one of my favorite inquisitors for that reason alone. You can empathize what happened to her, as well as understand her motives of her turn to the dark side. Twisted by the betrayal of her master, and corrupted by the dark side, fueled by her hatred of her master. A Jedi Master, a position that would expect a much higher esteem and yet, Cere Junda succumbed to torture, giving information to the Empire of the whereabouts of her Padawan and the youngling slaughtered in front of her. That is much more compelling.
How I would've wrote the introduction of her, was the Order 66 scene, her as a youngling trying to escape only to have Anakin come in and kill every last one of those younglings, and she pretends to also die from her wounds by hiding under the dead younglings. (which was basically what she said happened to her) She wakes up from her dream of the past, and goes about her life. (Sort of montage) Interrogating people for locations of Jedi by herself, and later in her research in the Fortress, comes across an old bounty on Obi Wan Kenobi. AND THAT IS HOW YOU START THE SHOW. You get a concise backstory, and you have some room to have the audience understand her motives later. It also makes the audience understand why Reva's story is also tied with Obi Wan's, why she is relevant to the story. Instead of just jumping into her character's fixation with Obi Wan without any sort of understanding to why she is so obsessed and that we are told that it is an old obsession. SHOW. DON'T TELL.
An interesting video and I enjoyed listening to what you had to say. I know for me I didn't really enjoy Reva as a character, I wouldn't say I hate her though. She just didn't gel with me. I didn't like that she knew Vader was Anakin and with Vader confirming that he knew she was a Jedi youngling. I don't see him letting her live when he's been shown killing others for simply seeing his face even if they didn't know who he was. Also killing Jedi in the name of revenge for her Jedi family being killed just didn't make sense to me.
Subjectivity is the death of all reality.
Pillar of Garbage is a blind man, because Reva DOES have objectively bad writing. The ENTIRE SHOW has objectively bad writing, and there's PROOF of that. I'm so sick of people defending bad things for the sake of "opinion". Like, sure you can like it, but you can't say that it's good just because you do. Subjectivity is a plague on the freedom of fact, and facts don't care about one's feelings.
And the fact of the matter is, Reva with the way she was written, was and is a BAD character. So much potential just nerfed.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 that in itself is a subjective view so while you pulled an Oroborus, you are technically right “from a certain point of view.”
@@skeetskeet7041
No. No, it is not.
And here's the proof:
th-cam.com/video/TuPvSTf0dRs/w-d-xo.html
And when it comes to Subjectivity:
th-cam.com/video/K7OwKPqVsYM/w-d-xo.html
As I've said, Subjectivity is a plague on the freedom of fact, and facts don't care about one's feelings.
And the fact of the matter is, Reva with the way she was written, was and is a BAD character. So much potential just nerfed.
I love the idea of her as a character and in fact, I didn't feel like she was a bad character at all. I was actually pretty sold on how her story went. But when you examine it form a cohesive, objective lense, no, she isn't a character that has good writing. And I am SICK of suckers defending things for the sake of petty "opinion" and not something greater that.
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 the effort your going to proves his points you got some stuff to workout don't make that other people's problem
@@ellugerdelacruz2555 love how you copy-pasted your entire argument again just to show how not subjective you were about it.
People have a history of crapping on Disney Star Wars characters from certain projects. To attribute that to racism or sexism is missing the point of the pushback. Characters including Ashoka, Leia (pre sequel trilogy), Lando, even the characters from rogue one and the Mandolorian range from universally loved to liked. The main pushback that Reva suffered was anger at the bait and switch. A show that was supposed to focus on Kenobi, actually focused on a redemption ark for Reva that no one cared about and that didn’t make a whole lot of sense. And that was at the expense of both canon and the character of Kenobi.
Imagine if the prequels weren’t about Anakin’s decent into the Dark Side and Obi-Wan’s transformation into the Jedi that Luke would meet and it was all about Jar-Jar or another side character.
The show unquestionably focused primarily on Kenobi, both in terms of screen time and narrative presence.
@@PillarofGarbagethe Kenobi we get is not the Kenobi of the original and prequel trilogies, which is the main problem and he is not the main focus. Disney has already admitted that it used the series as a vehicle for a Reva series that no one wants.
And Reva is a product of bad writing, Disney writers have no idea how to write deep characters that people care about
@@davidmyhra4931 Do you guys want to hear a joke about Revan?
Remove the “N” from his name.
If you only want to engage with a story on a surface level without critical thought that’s your right, but then you shouldn’t be speaking on how well it was written, performed and generally executed because you haven’t put in the mental effort to even know what it was trying to do, or whether what it was doing was actually positive or perhaps harmful in some way.
I mean....right? These are the people that still refuse to believe (despite Lucas TELLING THEM) that the Rebels in TOT are a stand-in for the Vietcong and the Empire is a stand-in for the American government. Yet they somehow still talk about "the agenda" and 'woke politics'...as if Star Wars hadn't ALWAYS had leftist themes... I guess we can safely say that right-wing reactionaries' ability to properly analyze and understand stories in media is basically...non-existent. I mean...they think Rorshack is an awesome hero and not the obvious cautionary tale nutjob that we all know him to be...and that Tyler Durden is somehow a role-model of "Chad masculinity" that should be emulated..and not an evil p.o.s. (the VILLAIN of the story), born out of the Narrator's repressed homosexual side.
Edit: Sorry, I initially misunderstood your comment.
@@madsgrams2069 dude he’s on PoG’s side. He’s condemning those who formed their opinions early.
@@TSDTalks22 Hmm...you sure? If I misread the comment, mea culpa. Although I'd prefer it he himself told me. It doens't really come across very clearly who this "you" he's refering to is.
@@madsgrams2069 yes I’m fairly sure, considering I know Adam personally (sort of? We share some discord server space) and know where he stands on kenobi.
@@madsgrams2069 don’t take it from me, though. The screen at the end shows that Adam is listed as one of PoGs patreon supporters
For me I didn't like her because I was just thinking hypocrite when you get her back story, but then the ending I ended up feeling luke warm (lol). Knowing damn well she couldn't kill anyone who's in a movie for obvious reasons I liked that she chose not to at the end and she asks for help in a way. Asking if she became him came off to me that she accepted that she's projecting her pain on others and that it's wrong. I have some mental issues and I enjoy seeing a character deal with ptsd and I guess feelings that some of us have trouble dealing with because the trauma behind it can just in a nice way, suck.
My point I guess is that I agree she wasn't written poorly, but written complex because people are complex. But that's subjective lol
My guy that’s like you feeling bad for hitter if he decided to come back and regret the evil shit he done. Reva actually killed ppl and even children during her 10 years of being an inquisitor. She didn’t have to do any of that shit. Yet then she finally caves at trying to kill luke?? How?! It also makes no sense how she figured out kuke is Vader damn son (then continues to know heading forward and that’s suppose to just be okay with obiwan) shit is dumb af
@@lordgrim355 I mean she was one of the younglings captured Sidous and Vader, that got turned into weak vessels for the darkside like all other inquisitors. There wasn't ever much of a choice, my actual moral complaint with Reva would be why go after the child Vader doesn't know of to take vengance for her origins and ultimatly the show explicetly states she's in the wrong for doing this. So while she's kinda bland, Reva's not even reallt a bad character just an okay one.
@@f5boDag turned? My guy you’re mixing her with tela (or whatever her name was) from Jedi fallen order. That’s an actual proper story with a former Jedi turned inquisitor. Reva literally said that’s she JOINED the inquisitors to plot and kill Vader. And umm there wasn’t a choice? She CHOICE TO DO THAT. She could of choice not to and run away like all the other Jedi survivors did. Her character didn’t even have to exist for the story to play out. Umm my guy. The show tried to give her a redemption. The character she literally copies from the game dies. Reva should of died multiple times. She shouldn’t be allowed to live and also live with the knowledge of who Vader is. Who luke and leia actually are know where obiwan is located. So much canon destroying things happen with this character isn’t not even funny
@@lordgrim355 She was in the temple and it didn't seem like she had any chance of escape. The way the Inquisitors are recruited is still not fully clear to me, but it seems like was taken and at that momment choose to bid her time for revenge. She was still a weak child, forced into the Inquisitors to serve Vader and the Emperor. I guess if she could have escaped and still choose to go back and be captured because someone else did that's actually morally darker but logical since for her to believe this she'd have to believe the darkside would make her stronger and lead her to a path of evil. I guess it is wierder that she turns good at the end in that version, but it would make sense the visions of her fellow younglings haunting her making her see she's gone too far for no good would cause her to rethink everything as for her point of view she would have walked this path for them.
Edit: Eh, her knowing who Vader is doesn't really destroy canon since she doesn't seem to have talked about it with the OG cast other than Obi so none of the had any reason to know it either.
@@f5boDag you need to go back and rewatch the series.
Problem A. She SURVIVED. Nobody in the temple survived. Not only is this stated during Anakin attack of it, but yoda and obiwan also went back to the temple and saw for themselves.
Problem B. She survived. She should of never survived a lightsaber to the chest or abdomen as a CHILD. That makes no sense at all. She out of all the younglings survived a direct attack. That makes no logical sense and only exist due to plot.
Problem C. You don’t know how the inquisitors are recruited. They ARENT. They’re Jedi who Palpatine tortured endlessly till they give into the dark side. Once again this is all explained in Jedi fallen order. If you don’t want to play the game then look it up right here on TH-cam. You can find out how it all works here right now. All inquisitors are former Jedi users corrupted by Palpatine and turned.
Problem D. She wasn’t forced into anything. Once again. She says herself that she JOINED. Meaning she gave herself up and decided to JOIN the inquisitors. We don’t know when she did it. It obviously wasn’t when she was a kid because the inquisitors didn’t exist immediately after order 66. She joined sometime after. The point is that she willingly joined as a way to get revenge on Vader
Problem E. She could of escaped. Umm no she couldn’t have. She was already apart of them. No inquisitor has ever escaped. They all either died or been killed by Vader for failing. She’s the first one to ever escape and that’s because of the dumbass plot where she survived getting stabbed AGAIN. Then maned to escape the planet she was left on(mind you there was no ship to get off cause she came on the imperial one. She just magically escaped). She thought to be dead I guess since she was left for dead…
Problem F. The visions of fellowing younglings. There’s 2 problems here. The first is she didn’t have visions of fellow younglings. It was visions of herself. The second problem is she’s an inquisitor. The main and only objective of an inquisitor is to hunt and either kill or capture Jedi. She been an inquisitor for a number of years as far as the story is concerned. Meaning she’s been killing/capturing Jedi for YEARS. She’s also TORTURED THEM. I mean if you even watched the show, she was about to torture Leia before being cut off and brought elsewhere. So in no point does her feeling she’s “gone to far” make any sense when she’s been doing evil
Shit for years prior to the scene with Luke.
And last but not least problem G. Her knowing Vader. There’s multiple reason why this is canon breaking. First off only a select few know who Vader true identity is. That being Yoda. obiwan. Palpatine. Organa(allegedly) Grand mod and of course Anakin himself. Nobody else knows this. It’s not even thought or assumed due to the fact that ppl thought Anakin was killed of during the purge. He’s remembered as a hero after order 66. There’s even a comic where Vader find a Jedi survivor from the temple. She comes to the realization Vader is Anakin and right at the moment not only does Vader kill her. He kills the storm troopers that were with them because of knowing his identity. Mind you she was a important person Palpatine wanted returned back but Vader outright killed her for figuring it out. Vader has also outright killed a stormtrooper who accidentally saw him with his mask off. The point being it s a well guarded secret that nobody it those individuals should even know . Shit the mere fact that she’s the one to tell obiwan he’s alive when obiwan should of know he was alive sometime during the last 10 year is insane i itself. So for reva to know is not only asinine but canon breaking. Why does it remain canon breaking? Because like I said earlier, she’s still alive. And we don’t know what she does. Her story isn’t complete. And it problem never will be cause of her terrible of a character she is. Nobody wants to know or care about her
The writing for the entire show was bad. Look at the first encounter between Obi Wan and Darth Vader. Has there ever been a less intense lightsaber duel? How does Darth Vader walk and keep up with Kenobi? Reva's backstory is pretty unplausible, it's absurd to think a child would survive a lightsaber through the torso. She also is arguably the most evil of any of the inquisitors and has likely been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of children indirectly by killing their parents, so her suddenly realizing she's becoming the monster she's fighting is hard to take seriously. As a whole the show relied too often on moments like her attacking Vader and Luke, which are characters we know survive, and leads to there being no dramatic tension. The tracker that's put on Leia's Droid changes its eyes color, which no one notices. The officer being discovered, fighting a fellow officer in a room full of people, and in general being able escape that situation was a massive stretch and poorly written. Her staying behind with thr grenade rather than just throwing it or setting there was dumb. Leia running away from grown ups early on was silly and nonsensical, so poorly written. The pacing of the show was also just really slow. I had no problems with Moses' acting, and in fact I would assume at least some of how much many hate her character is a credit to her acting, being that she's portraying a villain. Sure, she doesn't kill Luke, but she's by in large a villain that has allowed revenge to consume her. I think this criticism has fallen a bit for the fact that the smallest most extreme members of any "side" are often the loudest. Are some people who didn't like the show, or maybe even just her character racist? Yes absolutely. Are the majority? I really don't think so. I'm not racist, and I didn't like her character, and I didn't like the show outside of some moments in the last two episodes. Fan is short for Fanatic and people will always feel strongly about the material they've grown to be fans of. There's a fan edit that's 3.5 hrs long, still contains Reva, and has been widely accepted as good. I'd argue this proves the majority of the criticism of the show isn't from racists.
Agreed
Preach
Regarding less intense, in the new hope , thr is one. by the same people. Not counting the doalogue around it, it before obi wan gets minimalist so it makes sense he ues minimalist fights here.
@@marocat4749 That's a fair opinion, but I'd go back and rewatch a clip of both one after another. Obi Wan of course intentionally dies in the NH one, which is pretty intense. I think the actual lightsaber combat is better too though less holding the LS against one another. That however becomes my opinion, so I respect it if you feel different.
I agree
8:05
Her: "have i become him?"
Him: "no youre not, because you chose not to"
Narrator: "Thats a great exchange"
lol fk no its not, she spent a decade hunting down jedi and capturing innocent civilians as her coverup to get close to vader as revenge. Her not killing a child after a 10 year killstreak and the show trying to sweep over that is not a great exchange and not great writing, neither macro nor micro.
Still better than “somehow the Senate returned” and most lines between Anakin and Padme
What about all the rebel spies and sympathizers that had to do bad things to other people or allow bad things happen to sometimes innocent ones to keep their cover?
@@reek4062 The line is better on a micro scale compared to Anakin and Padmé's love dialogue but is far worse on a macro scale, because it's directly opposed to what the story has shown us thus far.
and yet no one complains about vader spending 2 decades doing much the same things and being redeemed by killing one evil pensioner
@@itilosi9929 vader has been called out on being evil by numerous people during the Series. Reva never got that, a moment of truth. Adding up on that her "turn" from killing luke was no active descision, but rather the subconcious incapability of performing the act. Additionally Vader at no point claims his past as something justified. Her redemption is in no way comparable to Vader
Based on some people commenting before the video has even realeased, this comment section will be another dumpster fire ^^
yes :(
dissenting opinions are, as always, perfectly fine and encouraged, but I will do my best to catch and remove anything that crosses the line into harassment, racism, etcetera
@@PillarofGarbage I'm sure you will clean up nicely.
Thanks for all your great work as always, looking forward to the release!
Pillar, an issue I see with this video is that if you are attempting to prove Reva's writing is good, why are you discussing comments that don't explain their criticisms or whose criticisms have nothing to do with the writing? Surely it would be more expedient and efficient to only comment on critiques that only discuss the actual writing.
Because the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of comments either didn’t detail/explain the valid criticisms they claimed to have, or gave entirely subjective reasons.
That trend is more telling than *any* individual comment.
Because it’s half the conversation when it comes to Reva and how bad writing is a cover to mask people’s obvious other issues
@@PillarofGarbage Still, this makes the video more of a commentary against racism than actually proving Reva's writing is good.
@@armoredghost918 that’s what the first 10 minutes or so are for 😎
@@PillarofGarbage Well, the micro and macro writing sections combined are only 5 minutes. I also wouldn't consider the micro-writing as important as the macro which leaves barely 2:30 out of 30 minutes of addressing the major complaints about reva's character writing. I don't think this is enough time to address these major complaints and results in a poor defense of her supposedly good writing.
Two things can be both True.....
Reva was poorly written AND most fans are not racist ❤️
absolutely, that was the issue. she got better writing in the episode 3 and 4. and then didnt make sense at the last episode.
Riiight...the guy saying she was only put in the show because of the color of her skin is definitely not r@cist at all... Brilliant, m8, keep running defense for the worst people on the planet... :| I wonder if you thought the character is poorly written if everything about her was the same, only it was instead a "he" played by Tye Sheridan or Timothee Chalamet... Just food for thought...
Amen
@@madsgrams2069 imagine being so dense and blind, you can't see valid criticism bc someone mentioned race. I'm black. Idc she's black. She was a shit character that was written poorly and her ending arc didn't make sense. Along with obiwans dialogue with her in that scene. You saved the boy by not killing him. Wtf was her reason going after the boy? Bad writing
@@madsgrams2069 I mean some people, and some actors make a point to add certian ethnicities...pretty sure Reva's did the same thing. I could check to make sure on that last part.
I think the direction they wanted to take her character was fine, but it was poorly executed.
Now this I can agree on . The show in the hands of better writers and directors could have been amazing just on the premise alone but I’m glad you agree that it was poorly executed
Yes, I agree with this. A lot of the best antagonists in TV these days have fully formed arcs and motivations that are shown on screen - think D'Onofrio's Kingpin. What this show actually needed was more Reva.
I agree. Her story arc and motivations make sense but I found the execution overall poor. I had a number of problems with this show that had nothing to do with her though.
@@Gfrog1000 how do they make sense the whole idea for the show is dumb George said obi wan stayed on tattoine for all 19 years and trained to comune with quigon now in this show he's a bum who didn't listen yodas advice at all and reva an ex padawan joins the only job in the empire where her job is to kill jedi and in ep 1 is GI did not force slow her she would have cut him in half stop lying everybody in this show got at some level character assinated
This is correct
My feeling about the discourse around Kenobi (and also around some of Marvel Phase 4 movies and other popular franchises that started to go downhill some) falls in part to people being upset about the downturn of a fan favorite property, then they listen to some people who complain about the “new show/movie/etc” that was released and see the people who hated and critiqued the downturn and people latch on to that opinion. Many don’t watch the series, or if they do they are focused on finding things to confirm their feeling on a show, and not to see if a view was accurate.
It’s true that many (not all but some) of the movies and shows since Disney got Star Wars are not good. That picture that came out of their “Star Wars ideas board” was troubling as well. But if a character or story fits in the world of Star Wars, doesn’t destroy the previous canon they held too and is fun, why hate on it so much?
If you want to discuss shoehorned concepts, talk about TLJ and the entire Finn & Rose subplot that ultimately went nowhere and feels like that doesn’t fit in a Star Wars movie, but not every new addition is the same.
bruh! That whole pointless side trip to the casino planet was the most Star Warsy part of the movie.
Her character was okayish. Nothing special.. with questionably stupid motivation... but whatever.
The biggest issues... we're more around Leia. None of that was needed... she became the focus of a show.. that never needed to leave Tatooine to really work. 😕
"Long awaited rematch" that NEVER should have happened. Ugh.
genuinely, why do you think her motivation is stupid? if leia wasn't so central, if they never left tatooine.... what's the show about?
@@rowan_like_the_tree I don't mind the "I became evil to fight evil" trope, but it was executed poorly. By the time her motivation is revealed... she has really only demonstrated negative character traits for half the show. Give me something early on.. that as a viewer... makes me invested in her redemption arc.
As for Leia... omg.. it breaks souch established cannon that I cannot even take your question seriously. Obi Wan had one job.. protect Luke and train him in the force.
It was clear from a writing and production standpoint that Leia was not intended to be in this show at all. It was all showhorned in.. and again.. executed poorly.
I don't expect Shakespeare... this is only Star Wars... but this should have been Disney+ FLAGSHIP show. They should have been investing as much time and care into it as possible. Instead.. we got a cheesy CW mini series.
@@MaleusMaleficarum okay great job dodging my question as to what canon it breaks, would genuinely love to know any single piece of media that contradicts what happens with leia and obi wan, but also literally how can you say she wasn't supposed to be in the show? her being kidnapped is literally the catalyst for everything else happening.
As for reva, to be honest I watched this show as it came out and haven't watched it again since so there may well not be anything to invest you in her redemption arc, but there is no way you can complain about bad writing in this show without complaining about the bad writing in literally all of star wars. I obviously don't know if you individually like prequel memes or quote the terrible writing everyone gets in those movies, but the double standard among the fans is painful to see
@@rowan_like_the_tree it breaks most of the interactions in A New Hope. But, view it however you like.
I'm not even a Star Wars "fan." But I grew up with the Kenner toys and follow pop culture.
I dislike the Skywalker Saga. Rogue One is the best film of the bunch.
@@MaleusMaleficarum im still not sure what canon it's breaking. Leia and obi wan (off the top of my head) never directly interact, and it's not like he went back to tatooine and filled Luke in on everything that happened. You keep dodging what I'm actually asking about, like what would the show be about without leia and just on tatooine, and i really would love to know what you think because i can't come up with shit
I think it was silly that reva got stabbed with a lightsaber twice and lived both times but after watching the ahsoka show, it's clear that's more of a Lucasfilm problem than one specific to kenobi.
It's a Disney problem, not a Lucasfilm problem. Before Disney took over, being stabbed with a lightsaber was fatal. Now, you can walk it of in an afternoon.
@@judaihyuga Not true.
George Lucas basically had Maul survive worse just because he wanted to bring a popular character back.
@Lobsterwithinternet Maul was also made Sidious apprentice because he was powerful in the dark side and had a great deal of potential. Not to mention, he came back in the EU as well utilizing a known dark side technique to keep himself alive through his hatred. He wasn't impaled through any of his vital organs, which the lightsaber would have damaged beyond his techniques ability, he was cut in half just above his hips, which *is* survivable with the force essentially filling in for the medical treatment that would otherwise be needed. Nobody pre-disney has ben slashed or impaled by a lightsaber through their vital organs and survived save for Darth Sion, who's body was literally being held together by an extremely powerful force technique which he had become completely reliant on. Even then, the second he released that technique, he died on the spot. None of the people that have been getting stabbed since Disney took over are anywhere near powerful enough to use that technique to that extent, and some aren't even force users to begin with. A child that has barely begun to use the force isn't going to be strong enough to save herself, and even as an adult, Reva's training was, deliberately, incomplete because the inquisitors are meant to tools, not true sith. She should be dead twice over. As should the Grand Inquisitor. And Sabine. All of them should be dead.
It was bad writing because most of the show was generally bad writing. It wasn't her in particular, it was overall bad writing. I'm a black guy so it's not a racist thing, and it's not bigotting on women because i loved every single woman in the original 6 movies as well as in the clone wars show, so it's not that, but i HATED Reva's character at the core. I feel her design was lazy, her performance felt like s performance, they shouldn't have shown her as a kid to keep suspense strong, but showing their hand was silly. Nothing about how she was written is organic more did it feel like it was worked for. There was just so much general bad writing overall. Reva on paper was a good idea, but it was executed like a 10 year old was to enjoy it.
She could’ve worked but they sadly dropped the ball.
STAR WAR IN IT SELF IT DUMB AS FUCK
It was a bad show, and Im sorry to say that this video reads like a school debating speech trying to win over on a topic that doesnt really hold water. Lots of what your trying to get across as objective truth, is actually quite subjective. There is no feeling in any new disney star wars (besides rogue one and maybe mandalorian) and her character and her motives were really poorly planned out.
She wants to go murder Luke Skywalker to revenge her childhood jedi friends but cant. This isnt just poor writing, its a bad idea. Why would anyone feel invested in an unknown new character that has attempted to simply badass her way onto the show with no time for proper character development and wanting to kill a character that we know survives. This is idiotic. Her attempt at an attack on vader is idiotic and clumsy and renders all her calculated sucking up round the joint pointless. I have zero qualms with the acting as she was just given what she was given to work with and to be honest I thought she actually did a good job with what she was given as a script! Furthermore, I certainly dont side with any ugly, racist star wars fans who have hate filled motivations or acting in bad faith towards Reva or any of these actors. However I dont think its a right wing reactionary position to hold, that the show lacked any feeling that star wars supposed to and new characters (including Reva) played a part in that. The "writing" wasnt just bad for Reva, it was bad in general and she is included in that. No true fans ever questioned Lando or any persons of colour in the past and their was weird acting and writing back then too. But the feeling came through, the emotion.
The only way to half enjoy this average show is by way of any fan edit where the cut half of the narrative out and in some cases cut whole episodes of bullshit out.
Fans need to stop defending this garbage and say enough is enough and we deserve better. Good enough isnt good enough. Millions and millions of dollars are spent on these new pedestrian star wars shows that have zero emotion or weight of any george lucas made star wars and its total bullshit.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if people dont demand better, we wont get it.
This! I think its pretty unnecessary to punch in the case that reva is "Oh such a bad and stupid character. yadayada!", because literally everything about Kenobi is bad, reva has nothing to do with it on her own, especially not her actress, she did her best, but there was just nothing great to make out of the stuff she got to work with. (Just like every other character in the show i might add, vader and obiwan where a joke, but the actors did their best)
Here's the thing. Good writing and bad writing is subjective. The people who criticize the writing of Reva have different expectations of the writing and that is okay. People are alowd not to like reva and the writing choices.
It is extremely reductive and disingenuous to assign an alternate motive to someone's criticism. If somone is telling you that they don't like a character for xyz reason it isn't your place to tell them 'no your just saying that to hide the fact that you don't like them for ABC reason'
Well there are objectively good things, like consistency.
But I agree that labeling people as if they have an agenda is blatant gaslighting.
I didn’t really like this show as much as I was hoping too. I understand why ppl didn’t like reva. She was like a knockoff version of the inquisitor from fallen order “with less motivation”. And keep in mind I’m black myself. I just think reva is one of if not the most poorly written characters in Star Wars
Yeah I don’t understand how people can just assume everyone who doesn’t like the character are racist. It’s incredibly myopic.
“You don’t like this character who is female, therefore, you are sexist.”
“You don’t like this character who is POC, therefore, you are racist.”
“You don’t like this character who is gay (or trans), therefore, you are homophobic (or transphobic).”
The pain. It hurts.
What, you don’t think disliking a character is valid, especially if they’re disliked for their poor writing?
I agree, though.
At 5:17 you ask the question, "why is that?" w/ regard to why Reva seems to be under so much scrutiny compared to other characters in the Kenobi show, & why she is so harshly & constantly mocked & undermined despite the fact that her writing dialogue-wise is entirely serviceable (if not good or even exceptional, which it's not & no one would seriously argue otherwise), & she does a pretty decent job in the show.
Then you use a crickets sound effect to preemptively suggest that no one has offered or indeed will offer a reasonable explanation, so you win by default.
Well, I'll tell you my experience. First of all, the amnt of scrutiny Reva is put under is completely appropriate, & is entirely the fault of Disney & the writers. In a show called "Obi-Wan Kenobi" we have an equal amnt of screen time to the titular character given to this newbie. Alrdy she's in a bad position. Audiences will (entirely understandably & justifiably) be annoyed that we keep leaving the character they know & care abt that they paid to watch in order to bolster this other cretin. If this was going to work, Reva's backstory would have to be compelling, relatable, borderline fascinating, revelatory, & should in some way come back to & reinforce the character of Obi-Wan. Instead her story is bland, forgettable, & is effectively nonsensical in that it doesn't explain why she'd be evil.
Second, the role she fills in the script/story is ancillary, & nothing necessitates that it be _her_ that fills it. In other words, she could be _anyone,_ making her character once again bland & even almost redundant. You quickly get the feeling that she was written or inserted into the story, rather than her having an integral role upon which the entire story pivots. What does Reva ever do or say or accomplish that couldn't have been done by the other Inquisitor, or (better yet) Vader himself, or the Grand Inquisitor, or hell, even Starkiller?? All characters w/ some grounding alrdy who don't need so much screen time just to establish them.
Third, visually she could not be _less_ impressive (as in 'leaving an impression'). The actress is very pretty, & her physique is damn near a 10/10. They then make the _brilliant_ decision to put her in one of those suits the canine cop trainers wear to train dogs to bite & attack. Both male & female fans would've liked her a whole lot more had she been dressed appropriately showing off how _God damn _*_fine_* she is. & I don't just mean put her in a bikini or something. Leia managed in basically a ball gown to be "...so sexy it hu-u-urts!" Reva? Dumpy. Lumpy. & Frumpy.
Fourth, her FU'KING ATTITUDE. It's funny how these corporations & directors & actors etc constantly accuse us out here of being bigots & r@c!sts, & yet they are quixotically _constitutionally incapable_ of writing a black female character who isn't a loudmouth, boisterous, impulsive, foolish, brazen & overbearing fool who makes you want to open hand smack her across the face. They can't write black males w/o them being loud, clownish, tertiary, greedy, lustful, vain, superficial, prone to violence, prone to or comfortable w/ crime, obsessed w/ sex & "booty," & (not-so-) secretly racist against white ppl. (Gee, I wonder if there's any social engineering going on here??? 🤔) Reva is so laughably one dimensional, like she's not even two dimensional. It's sad. W/ so much pressure & att'n forced on this actress & character, they _badly_ needed to do so much better than this. She was going to take up as much screen time as the titular character(!!) & _this_ is the best they could do??
Fifth & finally, even tho I _could_ go on unfortunately: her immorality. & if she were actually written as an antagonist, that'd be more forgivable. But it's clear right from her first moments on screen & even before that she's going to be the redeemed villain archetype. Now let alone that historically (think Red Dead Redemption 1) that charicature still has to take responsibility & usually die for their many past crimes. No, this is a woman, so obviously she was a victim & it was _never_ her fault. Women are never violent or unreasonable or jealous or vindictive or vain & narcissistic, & no woman would ever be stupid & short-sighted enuf to allow her actions to put her in a position that she doesn't like, forcing her to then engage in amazing feats of mental & moral gymnastics to justify said actions & position, all because she refuses to admit wrongdoing & a bad attitude. *OB-VI-OUS-LY...*
Every viewer sees these things all going on, & rightfully expects, "Okay writers, show me why I should care. Show my why Reva is worth the time & energy investment." & they don't, they fail to, because she's not.
Oh wait, shit, SIXTH: Her make-up, or lack thereof. Her hairstyle is exactly what you'd see if you went to Atlanta or Orlando or Charlotte & just went arnd & checked out black women's hairstyles. Her make-up is totally basic & _ex-TREME-ly_ minimalist. Where the character should be a kinda like, gothic-style almost femme fatale gimmick, instead she's just the nurse or dental hygienist or HR office worker you work w/ every day, wearing a weird, goofy, puffy, knockoff Darth Vader costume (one that is so unflattering it can only be intentional). It's fourth wall breaking almost. It's like if you saw your neighbour all of a sudden in like, Stranger Things. You'd be like, "Oh, what the hell is Sharon doing on TV?" Make her an alien! Give her pointy ears! Make her hair look, ooh I don't know, space-ey & futuristic for your futuristic space fantasy?!
Okay. NOW I'm totally done. Hope this has demonstrated that the audience is not at fault for unfairly putting Reva under the spotlight. Disney did that. If they had used Starkiller it wouldn't have happened, cuz he was alrdy established. If they had used w/e the dark side version of Ashoka Tano would be it wouldn't have happened, cuz she would have been established. Reva was a new character. We were interested. The more we paid att'n, the more she failed & came up short. This caused us to pay more att'n, maybe we're missing something? Nope, nothing but more cringe.
This comment? This is _your_ fault for issuing an ultimatum, lol. I take no responsibility. & It's length has finally helped me get tired so I can sleep before work. So thank you. Liked, will probly sub depending on how much stuff you've got & if it's long enuf to listen to while I work. Nothing less than 40 min is my rule of thumb. Anyway, w/e. Cheers.
So, my thoughts on the matter are this: Reva is 'fine' as writing goes. 'Fine' in that, under the current direction that and climate for writing for star wars, she fits within the mold, she is what Disney is looking for, with respect to what they want the story to portray. Whether that story is any good? Well, opinions differ greatly. For me, it's not that I don't like Reva as a character, simply, I don't care about Reva as a character, white, black, marmalade, doesn't matter, and that does indeed come from writing.
In broad strokes, from Rogue One, the writing for Star Wars stories has been decidedly going downhill in my opinion, and the characters have suffered for it. The villians, feel almost comically bad throw-aways. The heroes feel cheap and inane, or improperly used, and by and large, the stories they convey feel weak, the racial and/or gender identities of the characters are meaningless topics to even bother with. As you said, on paper, the fact that a character might be black, or gay, or a woman, does... not... matter. How they are portrayed, and carried out, does.
Reva does not suffer, from being a poor character, because she is black, or a woman, she suffers, because her rival through the story, is portrayed as weak, and cowardly. Two things Obi-Wan never was. In the prequel saga, he was a brilliant tactician and war commander, had a seat on the council, and could stand toe to toe with probably one of the most dangerous forces in the galaxy. Original Saga? Obi-Wan was a wise, cunning, and powerful force user. Why then, in the middle of his prime years, is he such milktoast bumbling fool? Why are Reva's fellow inquisitors so... bland?
For Reva to have been a good villian, a good antagonist, she NEEDED, to have a story worthy of her, the grand inquisitor was shown to be a ruthless and cunning adversary, always 2-3 steps ahead of everyone around him, getting cut down, even temporarily, should never have been a thing, and even if it were, Reva as a character simply did not have time to really make the cunning necessary shine. Good writing, would have made subtle nods to her approach, would have shown her to actually have the cunning necessary to stand toe to toe with Star Wars legends. That's simply not there. But that's also not her fault, it's been the way of things for years. Disney's hamfisted approach of slamming 'stories' down our throats with all the subtlety of a steam roller is what is at fault.
I want to like our characters, I really do, I just... Don't though, and I haven't for a long time now.
Star Wars has been sh!t since 1997. Currently The Holiday Special is above average.
Shes a good actress.
But she was an awful character with weak writing at best, and horrible at worst.
You see your fellow younglings get slaughtered…and decide your going to get revenge on vader by…helping slaughter and hunt your fellow jedi and younglings.. what?!?
Not to even mention she was about to torture a literal ten year old.
I have no feelings for her and wish she had died by Vader.
Dont care about her gender or race..reva just was a terrible character.
How does killing Luke become the rubicon for Reva becoming the thing she has fought against? Her arc begins at that point. I understand and agree with what you are saying about the micro level of Reva's writing. I never had a problem with her lines of dialogue. Her performance was good, despite the "angry people yell so that you know they are angry" trend that has characterized Disney Star Wars. It is her overall narrative I have a problem with. She is no "undercover hero." She spends a life pursuing revenge. She does who knows how many evil things to be better placed in order to get her revenge. She goes to Tatooine with the goal of killing a young child. Whether this is revenge on Obi-wan or Vader is not made clear... and we, the audience, are supposed to cheer when she does not go through with it? She does not redeem herself... she merely does not add one more to her list of sins.
You aren't meant to cheer her on, you're just meant to empathize with her. Also you complain about angry people yelling as if that's not generally what angry people do in real life.
@@angeldoe1229 I don't complain that angry people are yelling... Classic Star Wars was good at presenting a full emotional range. Vader was intimidating as hell but, vocally, cool as a cucumber. Such to the point that, when Vader did raise his voice, there was a weight behind it. If people yell all the time... it becomes meaningless as a means of communication.
@@paulenger3498 Exactly. I've noticed this as well.
@@angeldoe1229 This is probably how dim the writers were. You're meant to empathize with a character who's actions don't follow any clear rational. Empathizing with Reva is more difficult than empathizing with Vader, considering he went through a lot more than Reva did. How do you empathize with someone who wants revenge on someone else who is also a victim? Why not target the Emperor?
If she's so obtuse as to only see Vader as a target, what does she expect of those she murders in cold-blood? She becomes a hypocrite. What empathy am I supposed to feel? Her character deserved what she got in the scope of the story.
The Most HILARIOUS Defense I've Seen from people who claim they're "not being Sexist", is when they go "I can't be Sexist! Ahsoka Tano is my Favorite Character!"... This is funny to me because I actually REMEMBER what it was like when this character was Created, EVERYBODY HATED HER, As much if not MORE than they do Reva for this series. In fact, I'm tempted to say more, since They HATED Ahsoka for YEARS after she was put to Screen, the Reva Hate Died out with the last Episode of Obi-Wan when they realized they didn't have a leg to stand on anymore(It's Basically the Entertainment equivalent of "I'm not Racist, I had a Black Friend!" after Spewing Racist Rhetoric for 2 hours)... Funny What Time to actually Develop a Character and show them off can do for them eh? Almost like you shouldn't jump to Screaming "BAD WRITING!" 5 Seconds after they show their face... or before the show even starts... And it's SO Weird how that ONLY ever Happens to Characters that we would call "Diverse" and never to the "Default" Straight White guys eh?
Also, I've noticed this tendency for The Racists and Sexists to Always "Measure" New characters in groups, they find one that they don't hate, and at the same time they find one that' are Showing up roughly at the same time, and then go "Ok, this one we're gonna say we like, That way we can claim to not be Intolerant when we BOMBARD the other ones with undeserved Attacks! It's Genius!" (Meanwhile literally everyone with more than 2 Brain Cells to Rub together Noticed and are just Facepalming)
"...the bad writing complaint acted as a smokescreen for bad-faith, bigoted responses..." OK, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were watching completely different reviews and commentary than I was. The most common criticisms I've heard of the character are as follows: 1. Reva's character, backstory, motivation, even designation was a direct ripoff of a videogame character (Trilla, the 2nd Sister from Jedi: Fallen Order, who pulled it off much more effectively). 2. The character is introduced and developed as cartoonishly cruel, violent and deliberately evil yet later flips to an attempt at a justifiably vengeful, empathetic victim-turned-avenger (This is the person you're supposed to come to identify with). 3. The character's motivations range from non-sensical to self-negating (For instance, she can't bring herself to kill little Luke because she identifies with him as a hunted victim, yet she had no problem enthusiastically murdering who knows how many Jedi and others for the better part of a decade, a role she willingly sought out) 4. The character's in-story efficacy is linked to plot convenience and knowing information it would be improbable for her to be able to gather. 5. Apparently, for her to be taken seriously as capable or intelligent, everyone around her or presented in opposition to her must be Narratively represented as incompetent or borderline idiotic to the point of deconstructing and diminishing previously established characters in her favor. That doesn't sound like bigotry to me. that sounds like a badly written narrative around a bad character.
One thing I noticed about irrationally negative right-wing “criticism” on the internet is that if someone *really* doesn’t like something, and if they don’t have any real reason why, they usually just the thing they liked has “bad writing” or “a bad story” and either purposely overrepresent the worst part the things writing or just misunderstand why the creator of the thing wrote something that way.
This is just how the internet works, for example this is how most “criticism” against Bethesda games usually Cary out, and the sequel trilogy (except the last one for some reason like they said they don’t like it but most of the irrational conservatives pretty much ignored it shortly after everyone began dunking on it), And with most of phase 4 marvel.
But she is poorly written and I can prove it in one sentence.
She can read peoples minds (shown in episode two), yet decides not to read Owen's mind in episode one because reasons.
My problems with Reva :
1. She's way over the top - her agressiveness crosses so far over the line SW sets for force users to fall hard to the dark side, her redemption seems way too abrupt and rushed
2. The story makes other characters act stupid and reckless just in order to further her arc. ObiWan leaving his comms behind. Bail broadcaating in expository fashion the biggest secret they have just in order for her to be able to find the Lars farm, Vader not just murdering an obvious traitor...
3. Her redemption story is not only abrupt but also lacks suspense being needlessly placed in one place in this friggin galaxy we know she cannot do any damage or the OT won't happen.
My biggest gripe of those is what I'm really sensitive to generally - building up a new character by teraing down the establisjed ones. Making them weaker, dumber, less compelling. Sequels did it, fans hated it and Kenobi doubles down on it. There's no learning curve with these story group drive, write-by-commitee, modular storytelling products.
Reading comments about Reva online, I keep noticing how oddly defensive her detractors get. It's like they're poor victims being persecuted by the EEEVIL SJWs, and can't voice their objective criticism out of fear that they'll be labelled as racists.
Like, chill, my guy. No one's gonna "cancel" you for saying you didn't enjoy Reva's character or the show itself, just make an effort to explain WHY without jumping to agression and repeated buzzwords like "identity politics".
Identitiy politics isn't a "buzzword." It's a term used to describe a political strategy that's centered around manipulating a peron's natural desire to be good/moral by attaching race and/or gender to everything. It's happening all around you. Wake up.
@@jaybeam1466 I call it brainwashing. You can choose to live a life dedicated to hating that or not.
You'd be surprised.
I've been called sexist for not liking rey despite talking about the writing of her character and not the actress (in fact daisy ridley did good with the material she had)
reva was a well written character? so we’re being intentionally blind and disingenuous now? alr word sounds like the modern star wars fan. y’all wouldn’t understand nuance or growth in a character if it slapped u in the face
I remember everyone online was hating reva when the premiere released. Even my sister didn't like her at first, but i immediately enjoyed Reva from the beginning. By the second episode i had already theorized that she was a survivor of Operation: Knightfall. My only contention(a minor one) is her origin is two much like Second sister's.
To be fair I feel like a lot of inquisitors have the same backstory, at least that's the impression I got from jedi fallen order
Have you ever questioned why?
Y'know, beyond the reasons this SUCKER provided??
Nah man, I'm black and admit Reva was trash. Writing was horrible and the character just felt cheesy and unnecessary with confusing motives. Skin color had little to do with it, it was the distracting ass character getting in the way of what people actually wanted to see.
Wanted revenge against Vader for killing younglings and Jedi
Kills younglings and Jedi as an inquisitor for years. Doesn't show remose for killing innocents at any point. Stops for some reason when it comes to actually harming Luke (someone connected to the person she hates). She got an unearned redemption just because she had a tragic past.
In my opinion. She is poorly written.
I know I haven't even seen the video yet but I took plenty of time to form my opinion on her characterization and it's just bad.
I like a fair amount of your videos but this ain't it
You might feel that way but most of these racists they use bad writing to hide behind their racism. The Star Wars fandom is full of races in sale wannabe Nazis who screen woke whenever the white guy isn't the center of attention at all times.
You haven’t even seen the video
It's kinda poetic that people are trying to refute this video before they've seen my arguments + explanations. As those who choose to watch it first will see, premature judgement and leaping to conclusions is... bad.
@@PillarofGarbage I wouldn’t expect anything less from the Star Wars fandom
@@youtubestayatyourrootsforfsake this guy clearly likes NASCAR
I honestlyhave no real problem with Reva (and I'm black). It's just that she feels more like a plot than a character: That dark inquisitor that turns out to be a former jedi working her way up to kill Darth Vader. I think that might have been a cool show-premise of its own... The bad thing is it just isn't the right place in a show called "Obi Wan Kenobi". It's like watching "The Empire Strikes Back" with one third just concentrating on C3PO.... Every fan expüected to see more of Obi Wan vs Vader, exploring what will Obi Wan do and how will he work himself up again (which is what happens but at a wrong pace). That and unclear "sympathy moments" & motivations is what makes Reva so annoying. If I'd had the script I would have cancled out killing the Grand Inquisitor and given the audience ,with her, a carrier of seeing her hunting Obi Wan and letting her go treacherous by letting Obi Wan go and leaving the potencial for a Sequel with her.
I think the names being given to series is a huge problem (in general, across star wars and marvel). For starters, it isn't creative to name a show after its lead character. But more importantly, it primes expectations in a very specific way. Imagine if this show had a title along the lines of "to rescue a princess" or "revenge and betrayal". The marketing can still be about showing off ewan McGregor, but I think a lot fewer people would take issue with the low hanging fruit of "but this isn't supposed to be the reva show".
Edit: just thought of a better example for the title "you're my only hope"
am i the only one who finds Reva's acting to be cringe????
Christ all this work for an IP that is dying a slow painfull death, with more crap writing then good. I dont care how many POC they hire, as long as they hire some good writers next time( I personally liked Andor quite a bit). I think Moses Ingram is a good actress but the show was bad overall. I hope the 'fans' can stop threatening every actor they dont like regardless of colour, thats just insane, get a life.
MAN, this comment section is the reason why I'm not a Star Wars fan. Y'all can never be happy🤣
It is possible to be a happy Star Wars fan just don't interact with the FanDUMB Menace
...you DO realise that is an Inquisitor, she literally hunted and killed other Jedi? As part of her plan to take revenge for Vader killing other Jedi?
This is absolute insanity. To rise in the ranks, she must have killed many Jedi...yet when it came to Luke, she somehow couldn't do it...
And to be perfectly fair, it's not just Reva that is badly written. The whole plot of this show makes less than zero sense.
Thats called a character ark. People usually call that good writing.
@@TheSorrel would just be nice if that arc was in someway earned or at the very least understandable to the audience. Instead it's just " well, I killed many people before, but I just decided that I can't kill this child, so I'm redeemed now"
@@terriblecertainity This might be the first time a Star Wars Character didn't just redeem himself by dieing. She just did a first step.
@@TheSorrel there is literally no reason for that character "arc"!
what are you even talking about?
Its like surviving a concentration camp and becoming the Gestapo to get even with the Nazis
Tbh I just think the show as a whole was super flawed. It had good parts, but they just. Shouldn’t have made it, or at least, I think it should’ve been very different. (If you’re going to focus on Obi-Wan’s lost years then it should not be action packed like What were you guys thinking lmao.)
I think Reva would’ve benefited from being in a better show. But overall, while her writing did feel flawed, (haven’t watched the show in a while so I can’t list reason because my memories fucked lol), she had some of my favorite scenes.
Actually, my main issue with Reva has nothing to do with writing quality, but rather the fact that one of the only black women in the franchise is the angry black person stereotype. Also that’s she’s a villain. Like yikes.
See, that's a good point actually. Reva does kinda fall into the angry black woman stereotype, even if the anger is very justified. Points for not killing her off though, that would have made things worse.
So what if she's a villain, that's such a stupid line of thought. Yeah, believe it or not, a POC can be a bad person 😐
@@varelmarais2222 Yeah no shit Sherlock.
@@Vivigreeny25 so can you explain why it's a problem
The problem with this series is that the whole thing is broken, not just Reva, I mean the fact that she manage to find a relation between Leia and Obi Wan that not only no one notice before but everyone just ignores after, Organa asking Obi Wan for help endangering Luke and exposing himself and Leia is just absurd, young Reva surviving a lightsaber stab by Vader is stupid (and if you pull of the Darth Maul card remember that he was a trained Darth Lord of the Sith, that the Inquisitors were given basically no training at all, so even as an adult doesn't make sense), Leia suddenly being able to fix the door after being shown to be bad with technology when failing to fix her droid was also bad, Obi Wan going from not being able to move a pice of metal to stop all the water pressure was just weird, Reva escaping the planet when there where probably not enough ships, Vader deciding to ignore the rebels and chase Kenobi instead of sending the Star Destroyer after the rebels and going after Kenobi himself, Owen and Beru deciding to fight a dark user instead of running away even knowing what they are capable of, the message Organa sent to Kenobi (I mean he think that he got captured so he send a transmission exposing everything, seriously!!??) etc... Reva does have bad writing because this was a show with really bad writing, you can enjoy it if you want but you cannot ignore just how broken it is
Not to mention Reva being angry at Anakin for killing Jedi and wanting revenge, then spending the next decade hunting and killing Jedi. Makes her the biggest hypocrite in the galaxy.
And btw im absolutely fine with her being mad at Anakin for killing Jedi and wanting revenge. Great set up. But then you made her a MASSIVE hypocrite. She maims and kills innocent people, kidnaps children and again tries to kill Jedi despite her superiors wanting him alive for interrogation. For someone angry for the deaths of Jedi, she seems to have no problem killing Jedi
Its the logical equivalent of being mad at Jeff Epstein for....lets say abusing children... Not to mention facilitating the...abuse...of children. Then becoming a serial...child abuser...in order to get back at him.
And yes, Obi-Wan has horrible writing in this show. So does Leia. So does Vader. So does this show in general.
Came here to say something like this.
I understand and agree with some of PoG’s accusations that there is more to some people’s dislike of Reva than “bad writing,” but that doesn’t negate the fact that Reva in particular and this show in general has a LOT of bad writing. I think it has pretty good micro writing most of the time, but the show as a whole makes extremely little narrative sense even if you take it in isolation, let alone considering it as a chapter in a long-running narrative
In the new hope, leia knew obi wan enough to sent the droid with plans to him, and luke knew him as weird fruendly odd ben. There is some rason leia trusts obi wan and, it may a well be that.
Yes, she was terribly written. They used her as a vehicle to retroactively take things away from major characters. For instance, her plan for putting the tracker on Leia is identical to Vader's plan in A New Hope. It's implicitly stating that Vader stole her idea during the original movie, that it wasn't his and he had to steal it from Reva.
She's inconsistent from episode to episode, it's insane that she is able to constantly squabble with the other inquisitors and not have been put down for the things she's done at this point, her initial plan of kidnapping Leia is so stupid in how she goes through this immense effort and she's able to see a connection literally nobody else in the galaxy or empire has seen, she's just the only one smart enough to put her father and Kenobi's connection together because ??? And somehow she's ready and willing to kidnap the guy's daughter, but not of sound enough mind to either monitor where he's going, or monitor his communications. It's ABSURD. Fundamentally ABSURD.
Kenobi is the worst written Star Wars property Disney has ever produced. The prequels were all better then it. And Reva is the worst offender, it is genuinely the most embarrassing thing and even Ewan Macgregor's solid performance as Obi wan can't save it.
I think when it comes to the point about Reva’s inclusion being because of some political agenda, for me personally at least (and I do know at least several others share this) it’s less her inclusion itself, but moreso how the publicity and company treat it. You’re absolutely right, her race has no bearing on the story and doesn’t change anything, so why is that one of the main talking points in interviews or other similar sources? Why is she being treated like she’s the first black character in Star Wars when what should matter is her role in the story (now I do not remember if this was actually said, I believe it was but if there’s a chance I’m wrong). That’s what bugs a fair lot of us and what makes us feel that’s a box to be ticked, not that they’re included, but that the creators draw special attention to it and specifically treat it like it’s a brand new thing that should be celebrated just because it exists, instead of celebrating a well-written character regardless of race or gender. Hopefully that made some sense. As to Reva’s writing, Jonathan Dunston already said what I was going to say (probably way better than I could), however I will also point out SavageBooks’ Yt channel, as he did a good video talking about the flaw(s) pf Reva and showing how the show could have overcome those. Now the argument could be made that he is indulging in fanfiction, however I think it’s motivated less by “this is how I wish the show went” and moreso by what would’ve made the show’s goals for the character work in the narrative (which is a common trend on his channel, trying to objectively see what would improve the narrative and helping it reach its goals). Anyway, I’m not gonna bother going back through all of this before I post and checking for errors, so unless I edit it you’ll get whatever weird poorly worded garbage I wrote 😅
"Why is she being treated like she’s the first black character in Star Wars when what should matter is her role in the story"
Because the stupid ass actress playing Reva is the one who said that dumb shit lol
Her race wasnt the talking point for the critics against her character; it was how crappy the character was because notice no one said anything about Giancarlo Esposito's character in Mandalorian as that was well recevied and notice he's not White either so no it wasn't about race. DIsney preemptively tried to gaslight the fans by saying it was about race because they already knew they had a garbage show on their hands. You think studios dont know? We just got through this with WB canceling the new Batgirl show. They know trash when they have it. Disney just decided to release it anyway unlike WB.
Also excluding Reva alone, the show doesnt work because its constantly broke its own logic as well as retconning lore.
@@budgiecat9039 Exactly.
@@budgiecat9039 Studio Executives feed the actors lines in what to say in interviews and stuff like that. Thats why they say all the same campy lines "inclusive" "diversity" blah blah. The studio definitely was banking on Moses Ingram being a black woman, rather than a talented actress
@@SkeetersGuitar
Do you actually have citations to back your claim?
@@SkeetersGuitar Its a shame and odd they didnt do that with Thandie Newton in Solo or Giancarlo Esposito in Mandalorian.
Just shows that things are getting exponentially worse in this whole fake activism agenda push Hollwood has been doing trying to deflect and hide from bad writing and direction where its so obvious now its become a bad joke.
The lastest example of the She-Hulk director trying to deflect and gaslight critics and fans who critcized the poor looking CGI in the initial She-Hulk trailer as "sexists who were trying to body shame She-Hulk design"
like lmao are you kidding me?? No, just like how people pointed out how poor the Sonic design was in the first Sonic the Hedgehog trailer (which thankfully the director and crew were open minded enough to accept said criticism and fix), so too was this the same thing.
Thanks, this was a really helpful unpacking of the situation
Personally I can't help but feel like his whole argument was made in bad faith.
Why’s that, exactly?
Season 2 is coming let’s go
The bad writing has little to do with the dialogue it's with the plot and contrivance that makes things happen. Reva having major plot armor through the show and getting where she needs to be for the next scene regardless if it makes sense.
She fails in every single thing she attempts to do.
"reyas an oc" SO IS EVERYONE ELSE??? It's fiction they're all OCs
They obviously mean self insert.
Personally, there really isn't a double standard going on here simply because despite the public being sold on a Kenobi vs. Vader series what they got was a plot built around Reva being the driver. They needed to quickly establish her as a specifically intelligent adversary that does things differently that ultimately has clear purpose what she wanted to have happen(Which is what I think Disney wanted.). Instead she is introduced as being comically evil and brash, to the extent that it demeans her character that she had to behave that way to prove herself. In fact her competency and moral character are told after the fact of the events happen rather than actually coming off as genuine or proven. On top of all of this she had to be showcased besides characters like Obi-Wan and Vader. They needed their writing and acting on her to be near perfect, but it wasn't and it shows elsewhere in the series and characters. If Vader or Kenobi were the actual plot-drivers in the story she wouldn't have gotten as much flack as she did.
Maybe you can say people prejudged her because of her opening scenes and the series not being what people expected but ultimately that's not racism, that's trying to sell people on something they didn't want.
If the character was in her own show it would’ve worked better.
@@theatheistbear3117 One would hope so with the extra time but sometimes one questions that with Disney Lucasfilm.
@@JM-dq1uw I question a lot of the decisions by Disney Lucasfilm, like canning the EU.
@@theatheistbear3117 Exactly👍🏻
While I have a number of problems with the show not limited to Reva, I do think this video needed to be made. The outrage market around Star Wars is insane now.
If you felt the scene where she spared Luke was powerful good for you and fair enough to like what you like. Alot of people didn't like Reva for several reasons and I think everyone can agree automatically painting someone who doesn't love a specific character as racist by a large conglomerate company is a bad look.
Don't ask questions. Just consume products, then get excited for next product.
Don't ask questions white racism, get excited for next product.
“I don’t see why you would criticize this show and not the original series for being more developed.” Tells you all you need to hear about his personal opinion. Yeah…why would people think a show filmed in 2022 should have more updated writing than the originals from decades ago…way to not even think out your own thoughts dude 👍
What exactly do you mean by updated writing? Screenwriting wasn’t some primitive art back in the 70s, and authors had been crafting naturalistic dialogue for hundreds of years prior…
@@PillarofGarbage one was marketed in the 70s…this is marketed in 2020. Believe it or not, television norms have changed over 50 years. Not understanding the times and comparing two shows/movies so far apart is ridiculous. The writing in Kenobi was bad. It’s just that simple, man. The fan service alone was worth watching the show I watched it because I’m a Star Wars fan, but I can still acknowledge bad writing when I see it without having to go searching for explanations and excuses to protect Disney overlords poor execution of this series
The thing that always frustrated me the whole show was never her, it was the Inquisitors as a whole. A character thrives when they are in relatable circumstances with believable characters. Reva was the only character doing her job that made sense. None of the other Inquisitors was written to make any impact to her or the story at all. They did absolutely nothing and were not able to elevate Reva at all. All they did was stand around and either tell her to do stuff or get mad at her for doing stuff. Like please just do your job y'all 😭.
Characters thrive not just by their own will and characterization but also because of their environment. There was no one around her that was pushing her/challenging her at all. So nothing she ever did (specifically in the first half of the show) felt real or exciting because no one ever did anything but complain about it 🤣 One of my favorite moments in the show was when Darth Vader actually (kinda sorta almost lol) "punished" her, because she finally had consequences for her actions. I think her character clicked a lot more-for me at least-towards the last three episodes.
Characters need consequences. I think the biggest thing that supports the whole "Mary Sue" argument by more right-leaning/centrist fans is that some characters are written with absolutely no consequences. It can feel as though they are taken completely out of reality to serve as a vehicle for progress or agenda (according to their argument). This show definitely baited the audience into believing Reva would've fallen into that same potential category until she (almost?) had consequences and actually explained her intentions... But yeah the show was just kinda all over the place, so there is a lot of unfortunate elements to unravel here.
I also wish they went into her backstory more and sooner, because it was so obvious in the beginning, but it wasn't revisited until it was too late :/
I appreciate the depth here! I don’t totally agree with every part of it (I’d argue the way she was ‘grounded’ by the Grand Inquisitor in episode 2 was a fairly tangible consequence for her over-ambitious, rash kidnap move [albeit a consequence she herself undermined by shanking him, but that’s also an important moment for establishing her agency] - and thus I’d probably disagree that Kenobi ‘Mary-Sue baited’ in the way you’ve described) but you’ve clearly actually thought about the narrative and developed a meaningful analysis.
‘Reva critics’ take note - broadly, this is what criticism should look like!
To be fair Grand Inquisitor was doing the whole I don't have to excerpt my energy to get what I want just need to use my force abilitis to get that as for the 5th and 4th honestly I just find it hilarious that the two weakest or bottom tier inquisitors are used to compet with Reva for posistion for standing next to Vader and jet the two still must not do anything to make Reva look capable
@@PillarofGarbage Thanks :) I honestly hate the "Mary-Sue" term but I can see how that trope could unfortunately be applied to parts of Reva's character. Especially at surface value (which is what I am assuming the loudest "critics" are approaching the character at...)
I should've worded that part better... I didn't mean to insituate that they INTENTIONALLY 'baited' the audience, but that it was a potential oversight. In reality I think those moments were more of a plot issue than a character issue.
my thoughts exactly!!
Do you guys want to hear a joke about Revan?
Remove the “N” from his name.
I'm sorry boss, I usually like your stuff but I can't get behind any of your points here. You glossed over a lot of stuff that is egregious in this show to make it seem better than it actually is. And on top of this you are acting in bad faith assuming that Reva is only hated because of race
He’s acting as if those same people criticizing Reva don’t like Mace Windu.
@@theatheistbear3117 I found Mace kinda bland tbh Sam Jackson could have been better as him.
@@TheMaestroMizerous racist
@@theatheistbear3117 or Lando.
@@TheMaestroMizerous Honestly I think he did a good job. It’s a shame that he’s typecast so much because he’s genuinely a great actor that should be playing more dynamic roles like he did in *Django Unchained.*
Reva and Leia took the spotlight away from Obi-wan. The show felt like the Leia and Reva show guest starring Obi-wan, not the show I wanted or expected. She gets stabbed in the gut by Vader and somehow gets to Tattooine without help or getting medical attention. That is bad writing. She should have died at Vader’s hands. The Inquisitors that I actually liked were dumbed down for Reva’s sake. Her story arc was done better with Trilla (the Second Sister) in Fallen Order. The story of the Kenobi show echoes moments from Fallen Order with an echo of the Ahsoka vs Vader duel from Rebels at the end. I expected something new, not something that echoes better content from Star Wars previously.
The show was primarily aboot Obi-Wan and did a decent job with him
I completely agree. I came to this conclusion myself while and after watching the show and really thinking on it, plus watching reviews like this, and not because I was racist or something (which would be weird for me to do since I am black). It really felt condescending having Pillar of Garbage make the negative discourse around this character out to be one at lest somewhat heavily rooted in racism when that just doesn't seem to be the case from what I've seen, aside from the occasional bad apples in the Star Wars fanbase who suck and shouldn't treat an actress or actor bad because of what they are and not who they are.
HOW
This. This is the video I needed to see. Honestly the discourse surrounding SW lately has been so toxic that it’s starting to depress me. I didn’t think Kenobi was perfect, but I tried to keep an open mind and still had a hell of a fun time. And yet, looking at the comments some were making about this show made me unsure if we’d even watched the same series. What worried me most is when there are good friends of mine, people I trust, spouting the same views, even POC. I worry they’re falling down the same rabbit hole I nearly fell into a few years ago when I almost became an SJW/Woke-hating bigot. Thank god there were channels like yours to pull me back from the edge. Anyway, rant over, thanks for the top notch content.
Happy to help :D
Just got aids from reading a TH-cam comment
I like people like you, I can bet you managed to go passed 2 episodes in netflixes resident evil TV show. I couldn't. It's important to have pallets with unique tastes, otherwise the world would be boring
What's toxic is this group of fans who have convinced themselves that levying any criticism of the way a beloved franchise is being handled is toxic. All the while cussing out detractors and calling them every istophobe they can think of. You are more than welcome to enjoy Kenobi. You are equally welcome to ignore those of us who didn't.
Critical thinking isnt bigotry
1. Reva had plenty of opportunities to kill Vader prior to episode 5, but she chose not to for whatever reason. As someone else pointed out, when she did finally take the chance, she did it in the most obvious way possible.
2. She only learned about Luke due to a plot contrivance.
3. Her plan relied on the off-chance that Bail Organa would send Obi-Wan instead of a bounty hunter or an army, which he most certainly has access to.
4. She somehow knows of the connection between Obi-Wan and Leia even though there's no way she would have been able to know that.
5. She's only alive in the first place because Vader somehow didn't kill her the first time despite standing right in front of her. (And Vader not killing her the second time is both moronic and grossly out of character for him.)
This. Is. Bad. Writing. The fact that people have made racist comments about her and cried "woke" doesn't invalidate the fact that this show's writing (across the board, not just with Reva) is bad. Do not pretend that it does.
Reva doesn't just know Obi-Wan and Leia are connected for no reason; the actual explanation is in fact *worse* than what you said.
Second episode, Reva states she found some old republic logs that tie Obi-Wan to Bail Organa. Setting aside the fact that Bail would've had dealings with multiple jedi during the wars (aka there's no reason for Reva to assume Obi-Wan and he are especially good buds or STILL in contact), now that Reva just conveniently knows about this connection, so do the other Inquisitors. and likely Vader also. Essentially, because Reva's plan does indeed draw out Obi-Wan, Bail should just be done for. What's stopping the Inquisitors from threatening the Organas again and again to draw out Obi-Wan the same way? HOW do the Organas canonically stay afloat another decade? Bail is 100% outed as a jedi abettor. He is not ambiguously against the empire, he should now be like Most Wanted, top priority for the empire, having direct contact with *a* jedi, and so maybe more.
@@kylefrank638 Thought the exact same thing. The Organas should be screwed. In a show with smarter writing *cough* Andor *cough* they would be.
Where's the ISB? They'd be all over that like a rash. As OP points out, the writing overall is trash tier, but because some randos on the internet make some racist remarks we now have to pretend this garbage is actually great? Come on.
@@threewiseman1 It's the good ol' safeguard: Studio finds racist people that dislike their stuff, so now all the people badmouthing the new movie/show are lumped in with the racists.
There are valid reasons to call Reva's writing bad. For instance, the reveal that she really wanted to betray Vader was awful - Obi Wan just reading out her backstory. Something like that needs a visual reveal, like her suddenly turning on Vader, giving Kenobi time to escape, and having it explained later.
Moreover, there wasn't really anything that gave me the feeling that she wanted to kill Vader, other than being very ambitious, which isn't really that odd for a dark side user. The sum total of 0 set up built up to a flaccid payoff.
But the fact that all these people can come up with is that she was "shoehorned in" to meet an "sjw agenda" demonstrates their only problem with her is racism. They never stop to think that she was cast because of the actress' talent - to them, talent is reserved for whites, while the blacks only get in for diversity sake.
This video absolutely needed to be made
You're right in that the actress herself isn't to blame, but horrible writing. That scene with them between the blast door is just all kinds of awful. She blames Obi-Wan for not saving her and other younglings. For not stopping Anakin. When in reality, he was coming back from narrowly escaping death on Utapau, to then travel most likely dangerously to Coruscant to liberate the Jedi Temple with Yoda to set the beacon up to tell other jedi to go into hiding, and only until like 2 days ago did he realize he didn't actually stop Anakin on Mustafar. Does it logically make sense for Reva to blame Obi-Wan? In theory it does make sense as Anakin's old Jedi Master and because she doesn't know the full story, but Obi-Wan would have had a perfect argument in his defense. In that scene, Obi-Wan is trying to stall her as well as trying to have her help him in stopping Vader. Why doesn't he tell her what he did to help any other remaining jedi after she was captured? That as far as they knew from the holocrons, Anakin slaughtered every youngling. They didn't know any of them even survived. It would have at least stalled for more time. Instead he just stands in silence and let's her attack his character even though he did above and beyond what many would do. He's the reason why there's not a peak health Darth Vader ruling the galaxy. It's like the writers cared more about telling a certain kind of story over actually following the lore that the prequels created.
Well she was shoehorned in, why create and put in a terrible character with abhorrent writing (and a sub par actress to play that character imo) into a story that 100% didn't need ir benefit from doing so? It was literally just a set up to give her her own show, a shitty new character no 1 asked for or liked is getting her own series already before the fans even had time to react..... If that isn't a shoehorn then literally nothing is
@@Arc_Eden You're acting as if they intentionally wrote her badly lmfao
@@wachyfanning No, I'm acting like they're just legitimately bad at writing......
@@Arc_Eden "why create and put in a terrible character with abhorrent writing"
The only way this would make sense is if they intentionally made her bad.
Macrowriting - her arc is that she somehow survived a stab through the chest, so decided to become a darkside-using inquisitor who murdered hundreds without hesitation but then eventually redeemed when she decides not to kill one of the truly invincible characters in this story. A serial killer with a huge body count decides to spare one victim right before killing them and now suddenly they are redeemed and all good? This is bad writing. Could be fixed by having her actually written as a spy behind the lines, secretly doing good and helping her victims escape the empire while making it still look like she completed her missions as inquisitor. How awesome would that have been. The "theme" of redemption is taking precedence over the story telling when there is no reason we couldnt have gotten both.
Preconceived notion - I liked her a lot in the first episode but then eventually she became a confused contradicting mess.
Saying it is "not badly written" is an objective statement. It is also provably wrong by the evidence I gave.
Shoehorned - Reva's choices, growth, struggle, past, and eventual redemption are addressed in this. Obiwan is just along for the ride, not acting like you would expect him to based on whats established about him. Obiwan literally being led along by a 10 year old, not actually learning anything he shouldnt already know. He only has the most screentime because of the name of the show. Reva is not a "primary antagonist" she IS the main character (reread what I just wrote for the justification). Screentime and name of the show doesn't define the main character.
Fanfiction - It's ok to have her in this show but the show is being disingenuous by claiming it has anything to do with the Obiwan we know from the prequels. It is a bait and switch, nothing to do with entitlement. Idk what this argument has to do with her writing tho.
Quiet part out loud - anybody saying she is badly written because of her race is an idiot.
Wider conclusions and everything else - I'm incorrectly viewing Obiwan as a project of inconsistencies? I mean.... I can't argue with that. But racism is bad and has no place in star wars.
I like how Darth Vader can commit multiple genocides at once and get redeemed by not killing his son but Reva? God forbid!
@@Peasham he’s not redeemed, but he died. If he hadn’t died he’d have to answer for his crimes (unless Disney is writing it)
@@andy7987. He's literally reincarnated as a force ghost standing next to Yoda and Obi Wan as though he's their equal, he was redeemed.
@@Peasham he’s not redeemed. If he is then that’s stupid too, just as stupid as reva being redeemed here
Although killing the emperor is a good first step towards redemption and bringing balance to the force so, actually it’s still less stupid than reva being redeemed for sparing one child
@@Peasham the only reason he's a froce Ghost is become he was the chosen one that's why he didn't disappear like obi and yoda
It’s not “her writing”. It’s the whole show’s writing. And it’s all terrible. She just happens to be a new and poorly handled character who’s extremely important to a horrible script.
The writing wasn’t terrible. It was good considering they had to avoid changing the future
@@Jack-hi1ss After the second time Leia got captured it just became excessive.
@@Jack-hi1ss 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
THE OT SUCKS ASS
You and a youtuber named 'Thor Skywalker' should do a debate (or) reaction to each other, it'd be really interesting to see you talk about each others criticisms of kenobi.
I’ll try to remember to check them out when I’ve got some free time - though I may give Star Wars content a break for a little while after this…
@@PillarofGarbage That's understandable
First of all: I like your videos and this video doesn't make me dislike you. I just think this video has major flaws in it. I agree there's stupid amounts of racism/sexism/anti-wokism surrounding Reva and how they use "Reva bad writing" as an excuse to justify their animosity towards her race/gender. I completely agree with the points you made about those.
But what I think you stumbled on: Just because there's idiots who are racist/sexist talking about Reva, it DOESN'T magically invalidate every criticism towards how she was written. And I don't see how shaming people who do have real valid criticism on the writing are "feeding the racists" does anyone any good as it's an unfair situation. People didn't participate in racism, racists hijacked the discourse. People did nothing wrong and there's nothing they could've done except pointing out the racism. But think about it: What is a person suppose to do then? Just be quiet until only racists are talking"? Because that's what your shaming is insinuating as there's no other option as I said.
And then the racists would win if people would censor themselves as they like to hide withing the crowd, gaslighting them to seemingly support their racism. And you took the bait.
Point here is that racism is so difficult to fight against and you shouldn't shame innocent people who were used by racists. It always comes out as moral pandering, as if you're saying "If I were you, I would've chivalrously destroyed those racists by... Not saying anything because partaking in any discourse is racist as racists have hijacked the discourse". Racism is hard to fight, but this ain't it chief.
Even tho you do that disclaimer at 28:00 minute mark, the whole video ends up being just that you group criticism with racism thus you can ignore it. If you wanted to just shine light on the racist/sexism and how people should be aware that people are using "Reva bad writing" as an excuse and how to potentially spot it and call it out; You failed as you arrive to this message after 30 damn minutes... You should've made a seperate video on the issue.
But hey: I will also explain why I think you're wrong (because you seem to grave for a debate, classic video-essayist BTW):
First of all: You only tackle to most radical and stupid "points" towards how writing around Reva is bad, (when they're hardly that). I dunno if you know that you were cherry-picking bad arguments you could debate and "win", but that's what you ended up doing. You didn't actually tackle any of the actual arguments towards the writing: You only tackled shitty opinions, shitty views. Arguments contain opinions, but "opinion" isn't a synonym for an "argument". "Reva is bad" is an opinion, not an argument, yet you treated these types of opinions as arguments, making it seem like there is no actual arguments, only opinions.
Secondly: In that little test of yours asking people to elaborate why they think Reva's writing is bad is such a small sample from people who probably aren't as well versed in making argument as you'd want them to. I know this might come as a shock, but: People can have opinions without being able to debate them.
This whole essay comes out as a hollow, reactionary try to defend bad characters. You say "writing is subjective", so why even make this video? If you think Reva isn't badly written, why do you turn such a clear blind eye to people who say she is? Instead of finding those points, you demanded random people to provide these points instead. Like bruh, IRL you'd be taking up their personal space.
And with the points you make how she is "achtually" well written: Were you expecting people to turn around and be like "oh wow you know what: I didn't realize she actually is well written! Oh I'm so stupid and can't understand how humans work, silly me!"?
You can shoot the messenger, but you probably still wanna hear the message before that... Maybe that messenger is actually your own that you just shot.
Take this W, you've earned it.
@@GuiltlessGear Thank you. I put the W on the top shelf where my cat will probably push it down from.
Fantastic work, this type of analysis is greatly needed in pop culture discourse. Looking forward to future videos!
I’m guessing anyone who didn’t like jar jar was racist too
Bad writing … Vader slaughters a whole town … The Grand Inquisitor was almost killed by Reva, but yet they both leave her alive just so she can find a message from Bail that leads her Tatoonie and she immediately knows Luke is with the Lars…. Sloppy writing to continue to plot.
Or maybe the sith are sadistic and wanted her to die slowly in her failure
@@tahjsimon9058 Leaving loose ends is pretty idiotic. That is why Palpatine captured Maul, or why he ordered Dooku to kill Ventress.
@@zachhecita Maul being alive is due to the sadism of Palpatine. Palpatine playing around allowed Yoda to get back up and fight him evenly and he was lucky not to fall like Yoda did.
@@tahjsimon9058 yeah but vader is know for just choking u to death bc u failed him he isn't ever showed to be like that ever
Revas whole motivation was to kill awakin to get revenge for the Jedi, how does she get close to anakin in order to do this you ask, by killing jedi and being an inquisitor. The worst thing about it is that everyone knew that Disney would try to portray her as good because you can never have a black character be bad in this day and age(obviously there is exceptions)
Reva's motivation was to get revenge for herself, and for her dead youngling friends. She thinks the adult Jedi failed them - hence her inquisition.
@@PillarofGarbage this hate for jedi doesn't make sense. If my country was invaded and my family was killed I wouldn't blame my country.
@@PillarofGarbage its not even like she seen jedi not trying to save her and her friends she seen them die fighting in front of her
@@PillarofGarbage do you think survivors of the Holocaust blame the jews for the Holocaust???
No! Because of course they dont!
Not only that but the definitely dont go around commiting genocide against fellow Jews
@@PillarofGarbage she harms civilians as well. They should have committed to her villainy honestly. She should have been allowed to dive deeper in the dark and implode for a proper redemption arc. Doing bad because bad was done to me is not a good thing
Aww what a shame. You were doing so well until you laughably tried to, unironically say Reva’s character and her arc is somehow a better version of Kylo.
Not only is Kylo literal leagues ahead of Reva in terms of writing, complexity, depth and development but Reva’s arc is doesn’t even hold a candle to the unique and powerful arc of Kylo Ren.
There arcs aren’t even similar except the general theme of redemption being present. Kylo deals with far more complex issues and ideas, of which there are far more. Kylo deals with legacy, with parental neglect, with brutal and unforgiving internal conflict. Reva is just wanting revenge until the end where she makes the right choice.
Your video has a lot of validity to it but I audibly scoffed and laughed at the ludicrous claim that Reva is even close to Kylo in terms of writing quality. It’s not even a fair comparison, Kylo is simply a better written character with a far more engaging, detailed and well crafted arc.
Reva - 6.7/10
Kylo - 9.3/10
i think reva just fails at a conceptual level. Everything she does could’ve been done by any of the other established inquisitors really and her role did not need to take so much prominence in the series, the focus should’ve stayed on obi wan and vader. It also doesn’t help that nothing about reva feels very alien or menacing compared to the other inquisitors. Even in fallen order, second sister has at the very least a gothic aesthetic, reva just looks like a regular cute lady with a modern haircut, like it’s just hard to buy that she’s a sith. just my two cents tho 🤷🏼♂️
"Everything she does could’ve been done by any of the other established inquisitors really and her role did not need to take so much prominence in the series" are you arguing that you don't think she's written poorly, just that you wish it wasn't a black woman doing these things and instead someone else?
"Everything she does could’ve been done by any of the other established inquisitors" okay. But it wasn't. And why does it matter to you that she filled the role?
@@projektaquarius Because people went into this show for Obi-Wan and Vader, not some new character.
@@projektaquarius because if you want to introduce a good character to a story like this you need to make a good case for why that character SHOULD be in the story, and you need to make that new character stand out. If you replace Reva with say the grand inquisitor or fifth brother outside of a few minor details nothing would change. That’s failing at creating a good new character in my opinion and renders them unnecessary to the story.
@@patrickmaybe2197 lmao it really doesn’t matter to me that shes black, it’s that they put so much screen time on a pretty shallow character, mainly to bloat a 6 hour story that could’ve very well easily been a 2 and a half hour (or less) movie. Everything Reva does has zero stakes in this story because we know that nothing she does will have any lasting impact. She’s gonna kill obi-wan? nope, he needs to be in ep 4. Vader? obviously not. Luke? are you kidding me? The only thing she did for shock value was kill the grand inquisitor but of course they brought him back because it would break canon for him to die. Reva is a completely unnecessary character in an already unnecessary story, but that’s another point on its own. Every complaint I have has nothing to do with her race, so don’t make assumptions like that.
I remember the fandom menace initially not liking Reva for the same reason they didn't initially like Finn. They're Black!
Or Reva just sucked as a character.
@@Mae4Ever She didn't suck. I was aware of people hating on her just by seeing her in the trailers. Some "fans" were skeptical because she was black. Many hated her from the jump because she was a woman. All the cries of "woke" and BS.
A lot of this was before the episode of Obi Wan even dropped.
.
5he show DID have some writing issues here and there, but thats not the characters issue itself. I do hate how her and the grande inquisitor take a lightsaber to the chest and shrug it off with no explanation.
That being said, Reva was actually my favorite part of the series. She was ruthleas and had a good backstory. She was DIFFERENT, not just good or evil, but a darker shDe of grey. I want to see what she does afterwards.
Star Wars films for me have the same kind of Pros and Cons, just at differently levels with a bit of variation. The movies which people like are where the pros are talked about, even if they happen in every film or show. The issues in one movie are going to be leant on via criticism even if all Star Wars media have this con.
The way she was written as a surviving youngling, it kind of reminds me of Galen Marek (Starkiller) being Vader's secret apprentice in The Force Unleashed. I think she was well written as a tragic character, being part of the Inquisitors, much like SPOILER ALERT!
Cere's apprentice in Jedi: Fallen Order
The Inquisitors were always a stupid idea writing wise. Why would Palpatine allow more dark side users when his entire plan for the Empire is to have a rule of 2. It is so dumb for Palpatine to allow more dark side users that screw up his plan. Disney is created the Inquisitors mind you.
Vader hid and secretly trained Starkiller from Palpatine because he knew Palpatine would not allow another dark side user running about and would contradict the rule of 2.
@@petermj1098 The issue with the inquisitors narratively is that they only exist to give Order 66 survivors a villain they can fight and win against besides Vader. If Vader is constantly trying and failing to kill order 66 survivors, it weakens his character, but as a result, whenever I see Inquisitors try to track down a Jedi, it feels like that Jedi just isn't important enough for Vader, and the only reason they're alive is because Vader just doesn't care enough to track them down. Rebels is perhaps the most egregious example, because Ezra and Kanan narrowly escape Vader, but after this, Vader is just never seen again, and it isn't really explained why.
@@petermj1098yes, let's pretend mara jade never existed. Or that palpatine sees the rule of 2 as he pleases. Insuisitors are lap dogs, they are there to survey the galaxy to make it easier to find surviving jedi. And once their mission was mostly over, they were dealt with very easily
At 12:54 you're completely putting words into that guy's mouth. He's not saying that reva's writing is bad. He's saying that he thinks the reason so many people are mad is because they're trying to make an argument as for why some character isn't good or interesting and people like you are just saying that the only reason people say that is because they're bigots. He may not have seen the show but he's noticed a pattern when people try to point out flaws in characters played by minorities or women. He's even trying to say that the majority opinion can't be overtly racist since the majority opinion is that Finn should have been the main character of the sequels
agreed, the OP was badly worded but i think that’s the point he was making. i can see why POG brought it in as an example.
I think that the show was poorly structured in general (Kenobi).
One complaint I have is that the way I interpreted it, the show was linking the fact that Obi-Wan could not communicate with Qui-Gon Jinn with his inability to connect to the Force. They had introduced it earlier in the story and I kept expecting that there would be some payoff to it, that it would play some role to the story... Nah, there was a payoff to it, but it wasn't meaningful to the story other than a cameo at the end. I guess you can say that it brings conclusion to Kenobi's story in the show, but it just seemed short and at a random point in time.
Another complaint that I recall having myself and others expressed is pacing. To tell you the truth, I hardly remember the show now so I'd need to revisit it to see if I still think so. It could have been the weekly release that influenced this though.
Then you have story decisions, like Vader constantly letting people go. I don't particular understand why he was written to have let Kenobi go the first time instead of going after him on Mapuzo. I don't know how Kenobi and Leia survived the trip to Fortress Inquisitorius. I don't know why Vader let Kenobi's ship go after he learned there was no one on the first ship. I don't know why Reva waited until after Vader was done to try and strike. I don't know why Vader and the Grand Inquisitor let Reva live. I don't know why Kenobi let Vader live only to expect Luke to kill him (unless I'm misunderstanding).
I do think Reva's story arc could have been done better. Maybe a hint of her true aspirations. Personally, with the Dark Side, I don't find it unbelievable that she impaled the Grand Inquisitor. Sith are known to betray each other, the inquisitors are trained by a Sith Lord. To me, her sudden reveal that she's out for Vader's neck came out of nowhere. Which I guess one could say the same about Vader's reveal that he is Luke's father, but I grew up starting Star Wars on episode I so that didn't come out of nowhere for me.
Honorable mention, I dislike the start of the show where Grand Inquisitor asks the barkeeper if he knows who the Inquisitors are. I think the writers were telling instead of showing here.
great points, i think there was a lot of potential with the show and Reva’s character was just one of several missed opportunities.
The amount of attention Reva got was definitely not a coincidence. But man. It's kind of sad to see a video that's coming so dangerously close to the "criticism of Kenobi is racist" line that the culture war idiots pretend is commonplace.
Reva IS badly written, and I'll give some examples in a minute. the thing is, and it makes the racism behind so much of her hate that much more apparent, is that she's still leagues better than every other character on the show, and she doesn't have many problems that are just hers. they're always tangled up with the awfulness of the writing of the other characters.
first, there's her whole plan. She finds out Bail and Kenobi were friends during the Clone Wars, so she's gonna draw him out by kidnapping Leia. This is dumb. The show even acknowledges it to some degree having Obi Wan tell Bail to send his personal guard or bounty hunters to get her - which would have been a much better idea. She should have assumed that Bail wasn't the dumbest man alive, would have sent his guard AND bounty hunters and probably a company or two of stormtroopers all at once because that's what he should have done. If Joe Biden had a daughter who was the chosen one, and that kid got kidnapped, it wouldn't matter if the FBI "doesn't know how special she is". That's the child of the president, they're gonna devote ALL their resources to finding them. Likewise, even if every bounty hunter was as shitty as Bail says they are, who cares? in addition to the best payday of their career, they would be getting into the good graces of the royal family of a nice planet. There's a zero chance of someone being competent enough to pull the job off, also being stupid enough to betray his employer in that situation. Finally, finding Leia would have been a huge propaganda opportunity for the empire. This must have been the first time or at least one of the first times, a senator's family was attacked under imperial rule. decisive action would have been an opportunity to tell everyone "we're not like the republic. we will keep you safe, just look what we did for the Organas" in contrast to everything that had happened during the clone wars. there's zero reason for Reva to believe this plan would work except that she knows the writers want it to work.
next, her whole reason for wanting Kenobi is to use him to bait out Vader. But she winds up alone in a room with Vader twice, IIRC, without making a move. I'm pretty sure he even came to her one of those times (the time where he choked her), and she could have prepared a trap like planting a bomb so she wouldn't even need to risk it trying to fight him, which she must have known wasn't a sure win. Kenobi should have become irrelevant to her then and there because she had what she wanted but apparently forgot.
then there was the scene at the door where she was blaming Kenobi for not stopping Anakin during order 66. He could have (and should have) told her that he was on Utapau being betrayed by the clones and even if he had known what was happening, he couldn't have made it in time to stop him. the worst part about this one is it's 100% a problem with Kenobi's writing, but it stains her too because she gives this obviously wrong opinion and it's just allowed to hang in the air and just ends up making her look worse.
and that's just off the top of my head a year after seeing it. This show's writing was abysmal. And the star wars fandom has a huge racism problem. these are two things that can be true at the same time. Funny enough, my overall opinion from the beginning was that Moses had gotten Hayden Christensen'd - she seemed like a good actress who was doing a really good job with the awful material she was given to work with.
No, no, it was really bad...
I do agree that Reva's actor got alot of unnecessary backlash, not due to racism, but due to her prominence in a bad show called Obi-wan.
Not her fault, its the director.
But my real gripe is that the writing was indefensibly bad, not okay, but bad.
NO IT WASNT RACIST BITCH
I just want to know something before going in on the premiere. is this video going to just attack anyone who doesn't like her and call her racist? Just because if I watch a video where someone just tries to gaslight me into thinking I'm racist for something that isn't. that gets their subscription off of me removed. because I know there were racist attacks to her online but not everyone is. I do not like her character and personally think she is poorly written. However, I think most of kenobi is poorly written not just her. and I don't hold it to moses ingram but well the writers. so how is it racist? saying the writing is poor means the actor has nothing to do with it.
in this comment section someone stated their opinion already, respectfully and going off the show yet you respond to them with "It's kinda poetic that people are trying to refute this video before they've seen my arguments + explanations. As those who choose to watch it first will see, premature judgement and leaping to conclusions is... bad." even though the comment wasn't on your video but the show which they have seen.
I've seen black people like the great eric july critique her writing. other women. with the same examples and opinions and they are called racist or sexist? I don't understand. honestly, it isn't fair to just assume racism for everything. if someone critiqued a white man, they wouldn't be called but when it's someone more "diverse" then it's a big deal that gets video essays over the "issue". for no real reason because critiquing a character of colour isn't racist. it's more racist of someone to assume that it is though.
if not, then I'll give it a watch. I'm just sick of people calling me or others racist or sexist or whatever when it's just not true. black people who I follow literally have been called racist towards black people for not liking reva. also how come lando, rosario dawson playing ashoka, mace windu never face this amount of "racism"? it just confuses me.
Re: your second point, their comment *is* about me, actually - they say ‘I like a fair amount of your videos but this ain’t it’
The video doesn’t claim every critic of Reva or Kenobi is racist. It suggests, evidences, and details a hypothesis of a link between certain critical fan narratives around the show (such as the bad writing complaint) and external patters of bigotry.
@@PillarofGarbage ok but I must say. from the title and thumbnail alone, without the further insight doesn't get that across very well. it just seems like you're another woke leftist racist who spends their life trolling nerdrotic. so even though i was confident as I know you make good content I just wanted to make sure. because many many people try to attempt this topic without literally any of the integrity or understanding you do.
You’re right. Not everyone who hates a woman character is sexist or racist. The good thing about you is that you acknowledged that there was racist hate against her. A lot of people don’t point that out and just say that everyone’s hate comes from hating the character, not that she’s black.
@@brettstalling2269 i think it being covered so widely like it was, made it seem like it wasn't just a few people being racist, and made it seem like it was a large part of the fandom that was racist.
Yeah sorry buddy you aren’t a victim especially if you watch Eric July, a dude who is crafting outrage for views and cry’s about diversity and “wokeness”.
Hello, I generally like your analysis but this time I kind of feel like you missed the point in many criticisms and didn't really address the bad writing but instead seemed to focus on racism. at least from my perspective the bad writing criticism I've heard is that: 1. in a show about Kenobi (who they made a coward), we focused alot of time on a side villain that didnt really grow on screen until near the end. the show started with a static villain and then switched to a 3d villain and thats a betrayal of audience expectations. thats bad marketing and bad writing, if they wanted to make a reva show, name it properly. when writing a story; the book title IS a piece of the writing and sets audience expectations, if you do it poorly than the audience wont like your book and thats bad writing. (but a villain needed to happen so i find this a minor complaint and easy to pass over. but see the ending of GOT to see why last minute redemptions and character personality swaps without build up is bad writing) 2. the redemption arc seemed shoehorned at the last minute and didn't really build properly ( im not saying its a bad idea, you said in your video its a good idea and people should stop saying its bad but that's not the criticism, the criticism its that it was written poorly and the audience usually is the decider in good and bad writing and the general consensus confirms its poorly planned out and poorly expressed. if your audience doesn't like your writing ... then its bad writing) 3. she has no problem torturing and possibly un-aliving Leah but has issues un-aliving Luke? but we didn't see her have to confront that action or face emotional consequences, there was very little growth for us to SEE, we were told there was some growth but where, when? off screen? doesnt count. you gotta show us the growth so it doesnt feel like left field when she magically has issues hurting a child when she didnt two days ago. when most of your audience feels cheated, feels mislead, feels confused, its not a failure on them to understand, its a failure on the writer to communicate. thats bad writing pure and simple. i really wanted to like this show and was excited to see general kenobi but watching it made me and a lot of other viewer feel like it was reva and leahs show and that because the writing was bad at communicating who the show was really about.
Bad writing is when I don't like a character at episode one
I completely agree with every point you made but unfortunately invalidated all of it by you being the reverse of that one rebel leader who called Leia Lee-a. Her name is Reeva not Rayva!!! /s (once again a fantastic video it's nice to see star wars content that doesn't promote toxicity)
I also call Han 'Han' (Lando's pronunciation, to rhyme with 'can')
Imagine being you, everything the creator of this video said was wrong she’s an objectively bad character and the fans are not toxic for pointing that out. You modern day babies just think everyone with a different opinion is “toxic” 🤓