Beethoven’s music theory was so ingrained in his being that he still produced as a deaf person. This “suffering for your art” was concocted by some journalists trying to sell a book. If by suffering you mean studying, then yeah. You don’t have to suffer to write in a minor mode. Minor modes create drama and major modes happy. Composers know this. Mozart wrote one of his happiest pieces following his mother’s death. So much for the suffering analogy.🤔
@@macman9831Uh, no, Einstein. Nice try. Beethoven's true magic began during his struggle in Teplice, where he composed the 7th, wrote the heiligenstadt testament and stuggled for three years without composing another piece. Then, later in life, while he was completely deaf, he toiled and struggled with the 9th symphony and never composed anything else for TWELVE YEARS before the world head the 9th performed even once. Do me a favor, stick to reviewing chewing gum and tacos for children. Leave music to those who can appreciate beneath the surface, imbecile.
@@macman9831mozart and even Haydn could write music deaf. It's not impressive for the time period so everyone needs to quit with that thinking. They all wrote music without hearing it
Leonard was the only music teacher that never shamed me. I was told to move my lips and not make a sound during choir practice, I was passed over for trumpet chair and gave up cuz of the teacher liking a girl better, despite the vote of the band...I had no music education. But I watched Leonard Bernstein, and he taught me to love Beethoven.
Everything is everything tonight because I watched 'The King's Speech' where the B7 was brilliantly deployed against Colin Firth's speech and thenI watched 'Trial at Nuremberg', observing Max Schell in his prime. Now, TH-cam shows me the full circle.
Nah, I don't understand why people feel like that. I agree that his 7th symphony does sound like a reflection of something fundamental that he discovered. However many other compositions like the 5th symphony really sound out of the box and kind of wacky. No, I can't really agree with this at all. I think this describes Bach a lot more.
WOW Just WOW ! many years ago I had a dream in which someone was speaking to me about Beethoven . I had been listening to Beethovens 7 th for about a week prior to the dream . In the dream I was told that Beethoven s music "Is The Emotions " you see , not to be confused with the Expression of the emotions . In my dream this person says , "No ! His music is the emotions ! period . " There is a difference . " So it seems he indeed has a direct line to All That Is or God . But we all do . We can always find it , at anytime . The thing is , I believe he was trying to FIT IN , Trying too hard to be like others in his field . Thats where he was struggling . He did not understand his own gift of this language , the natural gift of the ability to tap into the musical alphabet of emotions . It was new territory , and he was discovering something new . But I think he knew finally , and accepted it finally with the 9th symphony . It is the celebration of that discovery . IMO anyway .
I think Beethoven was always trying to capture human feeling in music. This he understood better than anyone. It’s why the 7th 2nd movement, or the moonlight sonata, or 9 4th movement are so powerful. They are as close to tangible expression of what it means to be a person as someone has come. He’s a real “Dasein” able to communicate being.
I am only a layman with a passion for music but I have the impression that Bernstein misunderstands the melody here. First, it is not always the highest tone in the line that expresses the melody. Second, it is a very slow melody which does not make it less of a melody. This melody is not complicated but subtle, which does not make it less of a melody, either. The harmony is very simple but that does not make the melody less poignant, on the contrary. He also forgets to mention that those first chords are just the introduction to a long variation of the first motive. Motives in variations always appear rather elementary at the beginning, that' s what makes variations possible and interesting. What he refers to as "form" seems to be just the feeling for the melody and even more, the rhythm, and the ability to express the emotional sense behind, the melancholic solitary song we hear that develops from deep sadness to the conviction to take action and the serenity of knowing that even failure can have a higher justification. The precision and lockstep expresses determination, certainty, but also inevitability. The law of freedom is also the highest of obligations. This is Immanuel Kant's philosophy and Schiller's poetry put into music. What Bernstein says about the genius of Beehoven and his link to eternity is true, though. INEVITABILITY is a good word for it, I would rather call it coherence and consistency with the essence of beauty.
Epitome of cluelessness… reminds me of those senior history class school teachers who talk about historic wars with such confidence, zeal & trivial details … you’d almost believe that they were right there, at the battlefield, fighting next to Alexander, depicting how he mounted the horse, coughed blood… and then add some idiosyncratic remarks: Alex felt great fear… but no one talks about it openly. Young inspired students listen with dropped jaws and go home, impressed, excited: -Mommy, daddy, did you know Alexander was a coward? -who told you so? -the teacher
Qiongsi Wu i watched this specific video lot of times, every time i feel down, it makes me feel better, nobody can describe this movement better than Bernstein! I just love how he pours his emotions into it
Im very critical of beethoven as well, but some of these remarks from Bernstein lmao! This guy couldnt hold beethovens jock strap and hes pounding on the piano likes hes the king of music. It reminds me of some unknown dude who heard mozarts "dissonance" quartet and thought mozart got all his notes messed up because he couldnt write and should stick to just being a piano player. I fell out of my chair. Lmao! Im critical of Beethoven, but i give the guy props for having one of the biggest hearts and wouldnt quit until he was the greatest or made people think he was. He accomplished the ladder
I think Bach also had what Gould names “tonal vision”, and then Beethoven wrote great fugues in his late works. As per single notes melodies there Bach from Violin solo sonata no 3 , Adagio, Chopin Prelude in E minor… and I think those great melodies.
Bernstein saying LvB isn't a great melodist, my god, the first movement has a beautiful melody, and what about the Ode to Joy? The second movement of the fifth begins with a beautiful melody. There are plenty of examples. The sixth symphony has several beautiful melodies.
I am sorry Mr Bernstein but the 3rd movement of the 9th symphony has a marvelous melody as does the first movement of the 5th piano concerto; to point a few examples.
Bernstein obviamente exagera o seu criticismo acerca da harmonia, da melodia, da instrumentação… para dizer que, apesar disso, Beethoven tinha uma linha direta com Deus. Mas na verdade o objetivo de Beethoven era ser, não um herói nem um santo, mas um verdadeiro homem. É esse desejo que ele transpôs para a sua música. E foi o êxito trabalhoso e persistente em fazê-lo que torna a sua obra tão humana - a razão de ser do amor e entendimento que obtém em todo o planeta.
He just rehashes the same stuff everyone says about beethoven. What he doesnt get though, is 7th symphony melody is a simplified borrow from a theme mozart used in the 2nd movement of his 22nd piano concerto. Beethoven was sneaky and always had mozart on his mind
Sounds like he's talking about Bach and not Beethoven. Beethoven was way more out of the box than the Bach. Bach wrote music that feels like a mathematical equation that describes some fundamental physics of some sort.
Maybe much of his music DID come from some higher plane, but Beethoven's struggle was to learn to step aside and receive it. That was the agony, a struggle between his ego and this higher source.
Never, ever, ever, ever, ever under-estimate the suffering that Beethoven endured to give us music that still sells out symphony halls to this day.
Beethoven’s music theory was so ingrained in his being that he still produced as a deaf person. This “suffering for your art” was concocted by some journalists trying to sell a book. If by suffering you mean studying, then yeah. You don’t have to suffer to write in a minor mode. Minor modes create drama and major modes happy.
Composers know this. Mozart wrote one of his happiest pieces following his mother’s death. So much for the suffering analogy.🤔
@@macman9831Uh, no, Einstein. Nice try. Beethoven's true magic began during his struggle in Teplice, where he composed the 7th, wrote the heiligenstadt testament and stuggled for three years without composing another piece. Then, later in life, while he was completely deaf, he toiled and struggled with the 9th symphony and never composed anything else for TWELVE YEARS before the world head the 9th performed even once. Do me a favor, stick to reviewing chewing gum and tacos for children. Leave music to those who can appreciate beneath the surface, imbecile.
@@macman9831what are incoherent rant.
Suffering? It wasn't suffering for him. He chose to continue doing what he loved and ripping people off his whole life
@@macman9831mozart and even Haydn could write music deaf. It's not impressive for the time period so everyone needs to quit with that thinking. They all wrote music without hearing it
Leonard was the only music teacher that never shamed me. I was told to move my lips and not make a sound during choir practice, I was passed over for trumpet chair and gave up cuz of the teacher liking a girl better, despite the vote of the band...I had no music education. But I watched Leonard Bernstein, and he taught me to love Beethoven.
I love the second movement of the seventh symphony!
Instablaster
Who doesn't
#basharbeethoven
Its the most perfect
The melody is so haunting and beautiful. It crawls under my skin and nudges my brain.
Thanks for sharing this: It's wonderful to see both Leonard Bernstein and Maximilian Schell together...two greats!
Beethoven's 7th Symphony, 2nd movement is my absolute favorite of his works!
Everything is everything tonight because I watched 'The King's Speech' where the B7 was brilliantly deployed against Colin Firth's speech and thenI watched 'Trial at Nuremberg', observing Max Schell in his prime. Now, TH-cam shows me the full circle.
I know it sounds ridiculous, but I always thought Beethoven's works felt more like a discovery than an invention.
I agree with that. I hear this and it sounds like it could be a biography of someone, as they discover life unfolding right in front of them.
Nah, I don't understand why people feel like that. I agree that his 7th symphony does sound like a reflection of something fundamental that he discovered. However many other compositions like the 5th symphony really sound out of the box and kind of wacky.
No, I can't really agree with this at all. I think this describes Bach a lot more.
WOW Just WOW ! many years ago I had a dream in which someone was speaking to me about Beethoven . I had been listening to Beethovens 7 th for about a week prior to the dream . In the dream I was told that Beethoven s music "Is The Emotions " you see , not to be confused with the Expression of the emotions . In my dream this person says , "No ! His music is the emotions ! period . " There is a difference . " So it seems he indeed has a direct line to All That Is or God . But we all do . We can always find it , at anytime . The thing is , I believe he was trying to FIT IN , Trying too hard to be like others in his field . Thats where he was struggling . He did not understand his own gift of this language , the natural gift of the ability to tap into the musical alphabet of emotions . It was new territory , and he was discovering something new . But I think he knew finally , and accepted it finally with the 9th symphony . It is the celebration of that discovery . IMO anyway .
Propably the best teacher ever. Sorry Doctor Einstein.
Rach had that phone line open.
If I had one piece of music to listen to before I die it's the Rach 3
The documentary is called "Bernstein/Beethoven".
video here th-cam.com/video/FdsbzkXxosI/w-d-xo.html
I think Beethoven was always trying to capture human feeling in music. This he understood better than anyone. It’s why the 7th 2nd movement, or the moonlight sonata, or 9 4th movement are so powerful. They are as close to tangible expression of what it means to be a person as someone has come. He’s a real “Dasein” able to communicate being.
Fantastic thank you for posting
I am only a layman with a passion for music but I have the impression that Bernstein misunderstands the melody here. First, it is not always the highest tone in the line that expresses the melody. Second, it is a very slow melody which does not make it less of a melody. This melody is not complicated but subtle, which does not make it less of a melody, either. The harmony is very simple but that does not make the melody less poignant, on the contrary. He also forgets to mention that those first chords are just the introduction to a long variation of the first motive. Motives in variations always appear rather elementary at the beginning, that' s what makes variations possible and interesting. What he refers to as "form" seems to be just the feeling for the melody and even more, the rhythm, and the ability to express the emotional sense behind, the melancholic solitary song we hear that develops from deep sadness to the conviction to take action and the serenity of knowing that even failure can have a higher justification. The precision and lockstep expresses determination, certainty, but also inevitability. The law of freedom is also the highest of obligations. This is Immanuel Kant's philosophy and Schiller's poetry put into music. What Bernstein says about the genius of Beehoven and his link to eternity is true, though. INEVITABILITY is a good word for it, I would rather call it coherence and consistency with the essence of beauty.
@martingabel1960 Beautifully expressed, Martin, and I'm absolutely on board with your analysis. Bernstein's critique, for me, is inadequate.
..but entertaining and amusing😀
Thank you !
This is so awesome!
2:38, Bernstein describes Beethoven's struggles as a composer.
Epitome of cluelessness… reminds me of those senior history class school teachers who talk about historic wars with such confidence, zeal & trivial details … you’d almost believe that they were right there, at the battlefield, fighting next to Alexander, depicting how he mounted the horse, coughed blood… and then add some idiosyncratic remarks: Alex felt great fear… but no one talks about it openly.
Young inspired students listen with dropped jaws and go home, impressed, excited:
-Mommy, daddy, did you know Alexander was a coward?
-who told you so?
-the teacher
This video is amazing. I've been watching it dozens of times! Is it from some documentary? If so what is the name of the documentary?
Qiongsi Wu i watched this specific video lot of times, every time i feel down, it makes me feel better, nobody can describe this movement better than Bernstein! I just love how he pours his emotions into it
Im very critical of beethoven as well, but some of these remarks from Bernstein lmao! This guy couldnt hold beethovens jock strap and hes pounding on the piano likes hes the king of music. It reminds me of some unknown dude who heard mozarts "dissonance" quartet and thought mozart got all his notes messed up because he couldnt write and should stick to just being a piano player. I fell out of my chair. Lmao! Im critical of Beethoven, but i give the guy props for having one of the biggest hearts and wouldnt quit until he was the greatest or made people think he was. He accomplished the ladder
I think Bach also had what Gould names “tonal vision”, and then Beethoven wrote great fugues in his late works. As per single notes melodies there Bach from Violin solo sonata no 3 , Adagio, Chopin Prelude in E minor… and I think those great melodies.
Bernstein saying LvB isn't a great melodist, my god, the first movement has a beautiful melody, and what about the Ode to Joy? The second movement of the fifth begins with a beautiful melody. There are plenty of examples. The sixth symphony has several beautiful melodies.
muy agradecido....
"It all checks." That's Beethoven in a nutshell.
This must be shortly before Max filmed The Black Hole.
This is wonderful. Can you tell me when this was made and what program it was for? Thank you for sharing!
I am sorry Mr Bernstein but the 3rd movement of the 9th symphony has a marvelous melody as does the first movement of the 5th piano concerto; to point a few examples.
Bernstein obviamente exagera o seu criticismo acerca da harmonia, da melodia, da instrumentação… para dizer que, apesar disso, Beethoven tinha uma linha direta com Deus. Mas na verdade o objetivo de Beethoven era ser, não um herói nem um santo, mas um verdadeiro homem. É esse desejo que ele transpôs para a sua música. E foi o êxito trabalhoso e persistente em fazê-lo que torna a sua obra tão humana - a razão de ser do amor e entendimento que obtém em todo o planeta.
Beethoven wrote grosse fugue. A good fugue.
He just rehashes the same stuff everyone says about beethoven. What he doesnt get though, is 7th symphony melody is a simplified borrow from a theme mozart used in the 2nd movement of his 22nd piano concerto. Beethoven was sneaky and always had mozart on his mind
Sorry meant his concerto #18
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxE2BtTWMDO2yGF9qLxxaK6hk_Thd74MwP?si=73MCDXpm81oiWHIT
Listen to beethovens inspiration here. If you listen fully, you can hear it.
th-cam.com/users/clipUgkxE2BtTWMDO2yGF9qLxxaK6hk_Thd74MwP?si=7sf5kZmbZq8xkEtM
Sounds like he's talking about Bach and not Beethoven. Beethoven was way more out of the box than the Bach. Bach wrote music that feels like a mathematical equation that describes some fundamental physics of some sort.
Maybe much of his music DID come from some higher plane, but Beethoven's struggle was to learn to step aside and receive it.
That was the agony, a struggle between his ego and this higher source.
I agree..well put. Similar to what the world is going through now in this time of changes.
Do you know the name of the series or have any more information about it?
Obviously Mozart and Bach were more naturally gifted… no boundaries, no weaknesses
like gospel
Yeah Beethoven sucks
"Any child could write." Poor bernstein. Great maestro, poor theorist, awful composer.