Thank you IntoTheAm for making this video possible! Get your tee's here:intotheam.com/CAPTUREDINWORDS use the coupon code CAPTUREDINWORDS to get 10% off! Let me know the fantasy tropes that you hate!
Yo bro, just wanted to write this comment to thank you so much for inspiring me with my own fantasy writing! I've been writing a fantasy book for the last couple of years now and it's finally all coming together. Should have it finished in the next year or so. Of course, since it's my first book it does have quite a lot of tropes lol 🤣 but both you and Daniel Greene have given me so much inspiration to make my own fantasy and writing videos and have been learning how to make good book reviews by studying your videos. Keep making them! I truly believe words are beautiful, and as Patrick Rothfuss wrote: “Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts.” ps. the fantasy trope I probably hate the most is when villains are basically labelled as pure evil with no reason why they are evil. I personally think this is pretty shallow and like villains to have grains of truth hidden in their evil to make them more relatable and creepy, like the Joker, or the villain in the book I'm writing 🤣 lol but that would be spoilers. Anyway sorry for long comment... but have a story-filled day all the same!
@@joshuamoore3312 That makes me really happy to know I helped inspire your writing, that's awesome! Keep on writing dude and I wish you the best of luck with your first novel!
Thank you so much bro! I will do my best😁 keep posting these videos too! Maybe I can send it to you in like a years time when it's done, that is if I'm brave enough🤣. It will definitely be a strange experience for people to read something I've kept to myself for multiple years
I felt some chaotic green screen goblin energy in this one. I feel like booktubers get so random and funny when they discover the power of editing lol. It's perfect.
Ummm, it actually exists. It just isn't in English. It's my favorite middle grade fantasy ever, it's called _Vir Svetova_ (aka A Whirlpool Between Worlds). It's about 2 grandpas who are best friends and are just about to enjoy their quiet retirement, when, because of a silly mishap, they get sucked through a whirlpool between worlds and have to save the other world. Hilarity ensues 😁
@@natasagajic1061 That sounds incredible! Unfortunately, I'm limited to English and Spanish, so if it's not translated into one of those language I won't be able to read it, but I'm going to keep an eye out for a translation.
When I was younger I loved the idea of being a chosen one, destined for greatness from birth, so the chosen one trope was appealing to me. But now I much prefer the idea of some random person being in a certain place at a certain time, falling into the story or choosing to take part in it, and then becoming important to it. Maybe it’s because I see myself more as some random person now than someone who could be a chosen one.
I can deal with a lot of these tropes, but, ugh, the cliffhanger - the completionist in me cannot stand it! I binge series as much as possible for that reason alone. Loved how you captured that cliffhanger feeling!
Very creative titles! I personally love the Chosen One trope, but it would be a lot more interesting with a twist. Like how Rowling made Harry be only one option for the prophecy. And he’s also ironically chosen because of Voldemort’s own fatal flaw, which was interesting. Or Rand who’s chosen not only to save the world, but also destroy it. I don’t think I dislike any fantasy tropes. Usually my most hated tropes are in romance. If it’s fantasy, I love it, lol.
One modern author who chooses all these kinds of tropes ...and then turns them on their heads in the most delightful manner ...is Joe Abercrombie. His The First Law trilogy is a masterpiece ...beginning with a trope I usually can't stand ...a big 'fight' between entities we don't yet know anything about. It's one of the best story openers I've ever read.
I love the farmboy to hero trope 😅 ... I love seeing an unsuspecting peasant be thrown into the world, given way more responsibility than they can handle, strain, suffer and change under it and finally realise they can never return home. It is ... a bit ... overdone, but if done well, I'll devour those stories like the Lopen his chouta.
Kings of the Wyld follows an old band of mercenaries that get back together. Also, there are plenty of 70’s rock parallelisms and references. It’s totally a recommend! Edit: they aren’t OLD old, but definitely past their prime times.
The the undeserved mercy to the villain is my second most hated trope. My most hated trope is the redemption arch were the villain only has to convince the protagonist that they are good and everyone is cool with the villain now. Never mind all the people hurt by the villain before. I call this trope a trail shmail we say the villain is cool now.
One of my favourite rv shows actually had a mercy to the villan point. But I feel it would of been a betrayal of the hero for them to not offer it both times.
@@michaellewis1545, totally agree. The sudden redeeming of a villain who's committed heinous acts of evil is both lazy and devalues those they've hurt / killed. Sure, they can find personal redemption, but there still has to be consequences for their actions. One of the very few exceptions that was done well was Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones (the film adaptations at least). He was the character I hated most after the first episode, but his redemption arc was a very slow burn, over a span of years, countless traumas, and periods of personal growth he had to endure...and then they f*cked it all up in the final season. And I don't think George is going to bother even trying to finish the books at this point, so we're stuck with that awful dumpster fire. 🙄
The real "problem" is that many writers try to sell a redemption or "Mercy plotline" to keep around the character, it wasn't part of the story up to that moment. Not a fantasy novel, but Aang not killing Firelord Ozai is a self-imposed additional challenge that stems naturally from the story: Aang being very serious about his "no killing" policy, which in turns is part of the buddhist-like teaching of his culture. Past Air Nomad Avatars even just tell him to kill, as his spiritual needs as a person are secondary to his duty as the Avatar. Ozai getting mercy from Aang isn't for Ozai, it's for Aang himself.
You know, I get why insta-love grates, but when I heard my grandma tell me that she saw her future husband for the first time on the street and KNEW they would get married, I realized this was a real thing that I just didn't get because I've never experienced it.
I think that's absolutely true. But WRITING about it needs work. Because insta-love that lasts IS unusual in real life. So the writer has to make it believable ...not just a shortcut to getting on with the story.
I love watching these videos a writer because I can pick at things in my plot and figure out if they really work for the story the way I think it does or if there's a way to make tropes more interesting. It's really helped me with creating interesting stories lines and not falling into the pitfall of using these tropes just to get through the story but instead come up with different more engaging ways to bring my world and characters to life, so thank you for this video
I love Elves, Dwarves and even Orcs when they have a unique spin on them, or they are made the stories focus rather than humans. The Legend of Zelda, for example, with its Hylians and Gorons filling in for Elves and Dwarves.
Thank you so much! Your videos come out less frequently than Daniel’s, but I am far more excited when your’s do! Once again, thank you so much! Keep up the great work!
Brilliant video as always, sir. Despise damsel in distress, love triangles, and insta-love. The Daniel Green joke was A+ sir. We do love our disheveled goblin host. Seriously hate unpronounceable names. Whyyyyyyyy?
I'm too much of a D&D nerd to be unhappy with races/concepts used by Tolkien in other works. Seeing new races is really great and I'll happily dive into learning about them, but I'll also be perfectly happy to see things I'm already familiar with pop up. 😂
About advancement in the Mistborn books, there is a stated reason in the original trilogy that nothing advanced, the Lord Ruler supressed all technology advancements so it couldn't become a threat to him.
I love the creativity in your videos! Makes them different from everyone else on booktube that I watch! I always look forward to seeing a new video from you in my subscription list.
this was a great video, I really hate the miscommunication trope. I probably spelled that wrong. also you mentioned the goblin host himself which was fun. since I usually talk about what I'm reading in these comments I'll do the same here. right now I'm reading the shadow rising and LoTR and in 10 days words of radiance will arrive and I need to finish what I'm reading now before it comes.
The "no advancement" trope is pretty true to history in a certain light. Technology (and society) has changed more in the last 150 years than in the previous 10k.
I love your content so much I started with just the King Killer stuff but branched off and I even got into Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan Because of you, So thank you.
The farmboy trope is an extention of the amnesia or Isekai writing style. People complain about these tropes, but they tend to be the best way to teach the reader about the world, by having the reader learn about the world along with the protagonist. Or at least many writers find it easier to do that way without massive infodumps or the "as you know" trope that feel out of place in most stories. There is nothing wrong with any trope, but some can be more tricky than others to do well.
Been waiting for this video, entertaining as always. The chosen one and the prophecy tropes are a quick way to make me dislike a story. The only way they work is if you subvert it or mess with it a little.
Propacy can also spoil the plot of the movie when done poorly (Pokemon 2000 original Japanese) nut when done well the twist can be quite memorable (Pokemon 2000 English dub)
I agree on everything except (kinda) "The Chosen One" and "The Prophecy" - I think they can be done really really well (Berserk manga does both tropes extremely well) but most of the time they are not. But I really despise miscommunication, I think Wheel of Time is very guilty of this... some characters and their interractions just drive me nuts.
At this point I have a pseudo chosen one, a child promised to a faery court by an ancestor. This court bides its time waiting for her to be ready for what they want from her since her mother bargained on her behalf as an infant. Later she goes to a fortune teller for funsies only for it to be the real deal from what she can tell
I'm hoping those subvert things a bit. She isn't aware of the fey deal because they don't play fair. And the prophecy is vague and lets her know something she otherwise wouldn't have been told.
9:01 Yeah, I invented a lot of my own speicies, and borrowed some legendary creatures from around the world, lesser ones and popular ones.. Of course, brought back old favourites too, vampires, werewolves, zombies, witches....and thanks to the complicated Trellish language word structure, everything is hard to pronounce.
The trope that I think is being overused is the mentor character's death. The person knows everything. Has so much information that could have saved lives earlier but let's himself get killed before telling the hero something important that could have saved lives earlier.
I hate the "Friends to Lovers" trope, mainly when two characters have been friends since childhood, and then 17 years later decide they love each other (or have apparently "always loved each other"). I think this just rubs me the wrong way, though, since I have multiple friends I used to think I liked and then discovered I knew them too well to actually see them as anything but friends. Obviously this isn't everyone's experience, but because it's mine, I hate that trope.
Same here, also enemies to lovers if it feels really rushed and makes zero sense. Gotta get those love stories in there! Sometimes I'm actually glad when a book doesn't have one.
@@brinleyowens2551 Funny thing is, the "friends to lovers" thing is the only way I'm capable of perceiving the concept of love. The way I see it, you either find out you can "level up" with your friend, or they're just a friend. I find the romance without friendship to be a mere crush, based on idealized expectations that often end in disappointment once you get to really know the person.
Great video! Although I gotta say that Voldemort isn’t just evil for evil’s sake. At the end of the day, most of what he does is because he’s trying to escape death.
Oh yeah I definitely agree, Voldemort has motivation for sure! I just used the clip of him to show a villain and to fill up a blank spot in the video haha. Sauron also has quite a bit of depth to his character as well and doesn't really fit the unmotivated evil trope either
The dark lord trope can be done well, as in Lotr and WoT, where evil is a plain force of nature that drove Sauron, and the Dark One is a counterbalance to the creator
I've heard that when characters kill lots of goons in a big battle but don't want to plan to go murder the big bad, it's not always a result of moral contradictions; sometimes it's just rules of engagement. A big battle is a big battle and murder is murder, sort of. But the reasons for and situations surrounding killing the big bad can vary a lot.
Very true I cant think off the top of my head exactly which stories but ik ive seen some stories books and film where a character fights in battles fine but the actual moral quandary of killing comes into play when they kill someone who wasnt a "combatant" or wasnt percieved to be by other characters thus begins the whole now hes not just a soldier hes a murderer type deal
@@joetheschmoe1066 In Avatar, it's not always clear whether enemies were killed or not, but Aang hated the idea of *planning* to kill the Firelord. Honestly, that's different than heat of battle stuff.
Watching the video and visibly flinching as Wheel of Time (the all time GOAT) hits (nearly) every single one of these and thinking surely the next trope won't apply to WOT and then it super does 😅
I don't know how you feel about the Sword of Truth series but one of my favorite things about Wizard's First Rule was how they subverted the prophecy trope. It warned against the dangers of taking prophecies at face value, many of which were fulfilled in unexpected ways, and placing an inordinate amount of faith in those prophecies. It also wrestles with the issue of prophecy/fate vs. free will, which I enjoyed. However the way Goodkind explains prophecy in his books is complicated, perhaps overly so. I was bummed that some of the later books begin to fall into the kind of prophecy tropes that I praise the earlier books for not having.
Stranger Things has Chosen One threads. I really can't think of a lot of times these tropes were unwelcome when they're done well. Case in point: the "evil" villain without motivation isn't so much a trope as it is an example of bad or lazy writing. My point is only that I worry people will get the idea that the trope is the problem, that every idea must somehow be completely unexplored territory. Sometimes people write themselves out into left field just trying to get away from "over-done" ideas, but this is a rabbit hole that leads to madness. I do appreciate that you pointed out the fact that execution is key, because the truth is that any idea recycled simply because we've seen it before and not because it was born out of character is going to fall flat. As long as you develop gripping characters and your plot springs forth _from_ those characters, I really think you're good. Often its following those character motivated paths that will lead the writer away from recycled ideas in the first place, or even if not entirely, their situation will feel unique enough to them that nobody will care. I never once thought of Interstellar as a "farmboy gets off the farm and goes on an adventure story" because my attention was firmly on the twists and turns of he and his daughter's characters. I think it boils down to: write a great yarn and understand what MAKES a yarn great. Thanks for all you do on this channel!
9:32 I mean, in the First Age (some surviving into the Second) you have magical lamps that never go out or need to be recharged (lamps of Feanor), video-calling gems (the Palantiri), magical security systems that also hide the protected location (Doriath and Gondolin), water moving and plumbing systems that allowed massive cities to exist underground (Doriath, Nargothrond, the dwarvish cities) and above, certainly equal to Ancient Rome and Harappa/Mojendaro, etc. Even in the Second Age you have the Doors of Durin, a magical and technological marvel, as well as the Rings of Power. The Middle Earth of Lord of the Rings has regressed technologically and magically, imo.
It took humans 5000 plus years to develop and weaponize gunpowder ti the point that the battlefield actually changed. The romans had better weapons equipment and tactics and a lot of it was lost and society regressed in europe during the dark age
In the end, of course, most of these tropes can be good if you know what to do with them, like taking them to newer direction, such as focusing on unique theme revolving around them that isn’t common in other storytelling.
I tried to do a variation of “farmboy to hero” when I was teaching my kids to play d&d and my daughter was gonna start as a poor smelly animal caretaker but she wasn’t having it and got furious when I suggested that her character smelled bad. 😅😅😅😅
8:40 Nice, I have both. I took the Pterolycus from German mythology and I made a type of troll like ogre-giant with white fur and wings, that lives in the snowfields, called a Drungull.
The hate for cliff-hanger trope well clarified lolll Love it. The Belgariad really has more than half of the tropes here but is still awesome. Ce'Nedra isn't the needy princess type though 😂
A trope i here is when the main character is just super powerful. I prefer it when the protagonist is constantly overpowered or outmatched and they have to be smarter than their opponent.
The farm boy becoming a hero wouldn´t be so much of an issue if it wasn´t because most stories rarelly dwell on what it comes with such background. Farming, specially in medieval-esque settings, is a heavy-lifting job where gives you little room for learning other stuff that us the readers take now for granted, like reading or writing. But instead most protagonists who are supposed to be farmers tend to be weaklings and with basic academic knowledge, which makes you wonder why not make them the son of a wizard or a trader rather than a farmer.
I tip my hat to you and that intro, good sir 😂 Dont' know if you've read this, but Kings of the Wyld is pretty much what you mentioned about the old guys taking on another adventure. I freaking LOVED KotW and it's successor, Bloody Rose.
One aspect of the 'farmboy' trope and others like them that I dislike is the complete fish out of water aspect where they go out into the world with absolutely no skills whatsoever so you need a warrior (Aragorn, Lan etc. . .) to protect them otherwise they would get killed by the first creature of darkness they meet and story is over bt oage 20 or 30.
Hellboy had a good twist on the Chosen One: The Prophecy says the hero is actually destined to destroy the world, even as he fights for goodness. This puts his love interest into a real quandary.
I can never get enough Chosen One or Farmboy to Hero books. If its well done i dont mind it at all. Same with fantasy races. I love it when Authors create their own races but i also dont mind it if they use the standard elves, dwarfs and orcs :D
I love the video very much, but I gotta say in Lila's defense that the constant need to act and feel badass makes total sense with the background of the character and everything she had to deal with growing up by herself in a very unforgiving London - and later on, when she sees herself IN ANOTHER WORLD - well, a girl's gonna do what she needs to survive. Even be in a never-stopping "badass-self-pep talk" .
Oh nooo everyone hates insta love and I honestly kinda love it xD it has to fit the feel of the story though... If everything else is super realistic then it would just be out of place and too whimsical. But when to characters see each other for the first time and know instantly that they never want to be apart... I live for that stuff, I don't know why ahah
7:18 teenagers save the world is cool though. Lol I remember being annoyed with the movie Armageddon cuz it was “loser guys save the world.” But of course everyone loves a good underdog tale.
"Some people just want to watch the world burn." I actually have a whole host of villains who don't have any complicated motivation. They just want to kill everyone and destroy everything. And the reason is - they aren't really alive anymore. They were evil when they were alive and so they ended up with other evil people after death in a place where they torture each other by fighting and killing each other endlessly without being able to die. And when you end up in a situation like that - after a several thousands of years you just lose all other feelings apart from pure hate. So when the barrier between planes weakens and people like that end in world of the living, they just spread this hate and violence. Because they no longer are able to function any other way. They aren't main villains though most of the time. Well, apart from one or two of them who actually are significant due to massive power they wield. And those are slightly different because they aren't cannon fodder. They are rulers. And it shows in their behavior. But of course the barrier doesn't really weaken all that often. Special conditions must be met. Most of the time a lot more complicated villains are there to make trouble. The world is a big place and lots of evil people are around. And also people who may not be evil but they just happen to have plans my main hero just can't go along with. Also it's kinda stupid to make "fantasy tropes I hate" video where you kinda place vast majority of things that *MAKE IT* fantasy in the first place. Just go read sci-fi if you don't like fantasy. Using dwarves and elves doesn't have to make it a Tolkien ripoff. You can switch many things around. The elves don't have to be all kind and goody-two-shoes. They can be arrogant and not really like humans all that much. Dwarves don't have to just be miners. They can be this short but insanely hardy race that is almost completely resistant to magic a this may be why the elves and the dwarves don't get along. I mean if magic is vast reason of you race's power than you won't really like the ones that suck all magic out of you, right? You can introduce a whole host other races, including races that seem to be a sub-race of elves but aren't. There are many ways in which you can reinvent classic fantasy tropes. I don't really get people who read fantasy book with elves not being named elves but basically replacing them - but hating classic elves just because of the name.
I made a story where a 40 year old man has to beat murderous children to save the world. They all have super powers. His power is to cancel other superpowers so he gets to physically beat the crap out of them - but he never kills them. I also made an isekai story about a 40 year old man who mistakenly gets summoned in a fantasy world instead of his son of the same name, and then he gets shunned because he has no super powers. He later gets demonic powers and kills everyone. I watched a lot of anime and it is frustrating when the heroes are literally kids beating old men with tons of experience.
9:50 also worth mentioning how the magic system evolves along with the civilization. How individuals are weaker with each generation but get more creative to compensate.
Not a fan of secret royalty either... it seems to be the main reason a character is chosen, or somehow superior to the other characters around them. It seems to enforce the idea that the royal line is of ‘a better stock.’ When in reality some people rock being humans, while others have to figure it out, no matter what bloodline they come from.
Yes! Thank you for putting into words why I disliked the Darker Shade of Magic books! Also fits into the trope of “Evil for no reason” with the twins in white London.
True! I think well-written miscommunication can also be used to drive a plotline or character arc, and it can definitely work in many cases if done well
I think one of the reasons technological stagnation is frustrating is that so many fantasy authors have no grasp of economics and that ignorance informs their worldbuilding in hopelessly unrealistic ways.
I personally used the unlike other girls trope in my book specifically for a book that's set in a world where women were expected to be nothing else but society's standards. She doesn't believe that doing feminine things is bad and she doesn't think she's better than anyone else. She simply believes that women shouldn't be forced to do this. As a women, I think it's important to respect how people present themselves. There is nothing wrong with being girly, and there is also nothing wrong with not being so. Note: I haven't really come across this trope enough to form an opinion about how it's presented generally.
The "not like other [insert category]" trope often ends up cringe because the character in question acts superior to others (and very often, this trope is their entire personality). Your character actually sounds like the right way to do that trope.
2:43 I have the 'Chosen One' trope in my world...but anyone can claim the title if they win a battle. If they hate the idea of it, they can pass it onto someone else. When my MC ended up with the title, he complained heavily on it, and forced it onto someone else. I must say, it is a strange cycle.
Undeserved mercy makes me absolutely incandescent with rage. "uwu killing is wwong" they say as they step over the dead bodies of hundreds of footsoldiers. "I won't be like you" 😑
God talking to people in 14th century BC: voice from burning bush God talking to people in 21th century AD video about hated tropes: bird carrying letters Ironic.
Loved the video. Though I don't really agree with using ASOIAF as an example of stagnation, considering that the world as gone through several apocalpyses to the point that 60% of the map is covered with ruins of civilizations that became advanced and then fell.
Unmotivated evil... I know people who're just evil, like scarily evil without even trying. It's as if you're talking to a wall. A slight nudge in the wrong direction could make them someone else...
Thank you IntoTheAm for making this video possible! Get your tee's here:intotheam.com/CAPTUREDINWORDS use the coupon code CAPTUREDINWORDS to get 10% off!
Let me know the fantasy tropes that you hate!
Yo bro, just wanted to write this comment to thank you so much for inspiring me with my own fantasy writing! I've been writing a fantasy book for the last couple of years now and it's finally all coming together. Should have it finished in the next year or so. Of course, since it's my first book it does have quite a lot of tropes lol 🤣 but both you and Daniel Greene have given me so much inspiration to make my own fantasy and writing videos and have been learning how to make good book reviews by studying your videos. Keep making them! I truly believe words are beautiful, and as Patrick Rothfuss wrote: “Words can light fires in the minds of men. Words can wring tears from the hardest hearts.”
ps. the fantasy trope I probably hate the most is when villains are basically labelled as pure evil with no reason why they are evil. I personally think this is pretty shallow and like villains to have grains of truth hidden in their evil to make them more relatable and creepy, like the Joker, or the villain in the book I'm writing 🤣 lol but that would be spoilers.
Anyway sorry for long comment... but have a story-filled day all the same!
@@joshuamoore3312 That makes me really happy to know I helped inspire your writing, that's awesome! Keep on writing dude and I wish you the best of luck with your first novel!
Thank you so much bro! I will do my best😁 keep posting these videos too! Maybe I can send it to you in like a years time when it's done, that is if I'm brave enough🤣. It will definitely be a strange experience for people to read something I've kept to myself for multiple years
Instablaster.
Dollar bin Daniel greene
“Goblins get a pass. They gave us Daniel Greene”😂
Best line ever
But a Goblin killed Daniel Greene! Or maybe it was Greene Daniel, I'm not sure. Do we pass them for that?!
"Apart from goblins they gave us Daniel Greene" is my favorite line from every video he made
I know Daniel Greene, but still don't understand the reference?
@@myopicandlost
He meant that he doesn't care about other races (non human mostly), but goblins are fun to read because Daniel is a goblin
I felt some chaotic green screen goblin energy in this one. I feel like booktubers get so random and funny when they discover the power of editing lol. It's perfect.
Now I REALLY want to see this nonagenarian curse-breaking nursing home-rebellion fantasy epic.
Ummm, it actually exists. It just isn't in English. It's my favorite middle grade fantasy ever, it's called _Vir Svetova_ (aka A Whirlpool Between Worlds). It's about 2 grandpas who are best friends and are just about to enjoy their quiet retirement, when, because of a silly mishap, they get sucked through a whirlpool between worlds and have to save the other world. Hilarity ensues 😁
I'm half tempted to write it myself now
@@natasagajic1061 which language is that? It looks Eastern European, and I can't read many of those languages.
@@natasagajic1061 That sounds incredible! Unfortunately, I'm limited to English and Spanish, so if it's not translated into one of those language I won't be able to read it, but I'm going to keep an eye out for a translation.
@@CapturedInWords Count me as part of the audience willing to buy that book.
When I was younger I loved the idea of being a chosen one, destined for greatness from birth, so the chosen one trope was appealing to me. But now I much prefer the idea of some random person being in a certain place at a certain time, falling into the story or choosing to take part in it, and then becoming important to it. Maybe it’s because I see myself more as some random person now than someone who could be a chosen one.
Same here
So you you realized you are pathetic and insignificant so you want to read about people who are the same?
Same
I can deal with a lot of these tropes, but, ugh, the cliffhanger - the completionist in me cannot stand it! I binge series as much as possible for that reason alone. Loved how you captured that cliffhanger feeling!
I was like no way cliff hanger! He can’t do that to us!
Very creative titles! I personally love the Chosen One trope, but it would be a lot more interesting with a twist. Like how Rowling made Harry be only one option for the prophecy. And he’s also ironically chosen because of Voldemort’s own fatal flaw, which was interesting. Or Rand who’s chosen not only to save the world, but also destroy it.
I don’t think I dislike any fantasy tropes. Usually my most hated tropes are in romance. If it’s fantasy, I love it, lol.
Who is Rand?
@@christinacath4816 He's the main character from the Wheel of Time series. Rand al'thor.
@@janhavi1977 thanks
One modern author who chooses all these kinds of tropes ...and then turns them on their heads in the most delightful manner ...is Joe Abercrombie. His The First Law trilogy is a masterpiece ...beginning with a trope I usually can't stand ...a big 'fight' between entities we don't yet know anything about. It's one of the best story openers I've ever read.
I love the farmboy to hero trope 😅 ... I love seeing an unsuspecting peasant be thrown into the world, given way more responsibility than they can handle, strain, suffer and change under it and finally realise they can never return home. It is ... a bit ... overdone, but if done well, I'll devour those stories like the Lopen his chouta.
Totally agree! I would love to see older people as the main cast of characters.
There is a famous sci-fi series called Old Man's War I haven't read which does this.
Kings of the Wyld follows an old band of mercenaries that get back together. Also, there are plenty of 70’s rock parallelisms and references. It’s totally a recommend!
Edit: they aren’t OLD old, but definitely past their prime times.
@@mateoazcueta oh nice! Will definitely read that.
Maybe The Crimson Empire might something for you.
One/sixth of Cloud Atlas has that that - though that particular section isn't SF/F, other bits are and it all ties together.
Edgy Edgelord forever has a spot in my heart. He's trying so hard, the poor boy XD
This one can be fun, when everyone else is also aware and annoyed by the edge lord being edgy.
The the undeserved mercy to the villain is my second most hated trope. My most hated trope is the redemption arch were the villain only has to convince the protagonist that they are good and everyone is cool with the villain now. Never mind all the people hurt by the villain before. I call this trope a trail shmail we say the villain is cool now.
Yeah I agree about unduly short redemption arcs but I think long redemption arcs are one of my favorites
One of my favourite rv shows actually had a mercy to the villan point. But I feel it would of been a betrayal of the hero for them to not offer it both times.
@@catprog I am not saying it can't be done well. It is just I seen done poorly so many time.
@@michaellewis1545, totally agree. The sudden redeeming of a villain who's committed heinous acts of evil is both lazy and devalues those they've hurt / killed. Sure, they can find personal redemption, but there still has to be consequences for their actions. One of the very few exceptions that was done well was Jaime Lannister in Game of Thrones (the film adaptations at least). He was the character I hated most after the first episode, but his redemption arc was a very slow burn, over a span of years, countless traumas, and periods of personal growth he had to endure...and then they f*cked it all up in the final season. And I don't think George is going to bother even trying to finish the books at this point, so we're stuck with that awful dumpster fire. 🙄
The real "problem" is that many writers try to sell a redemption or "Mercy plotline" to keep around the character, it wasn't part of the story up to that moment.
Not a fantasy novel, but Aang not killing Firelord Ozai is a self-imposed additional challenge that stems naturally from the story: Aang being very serious about his "no killing" policy, which in turns is part of the buddhist-like teaching of his culture.
Past Air Nomad Avatars even just tell him to kill, as his spiritual needs as a person are secondary to his duty as the Avatar.
Ozai getting mercy from Aang isn't for Ozai, it's for Aang himself.
Even your sponsor sections are amazing and so well done!! WHY DONT YOU HAVE MORE SUBS! What’s wrong with you earth!
You know, I get why insta-love grates, but when I heard my grandma tell me that she saw her future husband for the first time on the street and KNEW they would get married, I realized this was a real thing that I just didn't get because I've never experienced it.
That's true! Yeah I've heard of some insta-love relationships in real life as well
I think that's absolutely true. But WRITING about it needs work. Because insta-love that lasts IS unusual in real life. So the writer has to make it believable ...not just a shortcut to getting on with the story.
Okay why was this video so funny 😂 Love the energy here
Nearly all of these tropes are in the wheel of time😂
I love watching these videos a writer because I can pick at things in my plot and figure out if they really work for the story the way I think it does or if there's a way to make tropes more interesting. It's really helped me with creating interesting stories lines and not falling into the pitfall of using these tropes just to get through the story but instead come up with different more engaging ways to bring my world and characters to life, so thank you for this video
*The Prophecy* is my single favorite fantasy trope. *The misunderstanding* is the one I most loathe.
I love Elves, Dwarves and even Orcs when they have a unique spin on them, or they are made the stories focus rather than humans. The Legend of Zelda, for example, with its Hylians and Gorons filling in for Elves and Dwarves.
Thank you so much! Your videos come out less frequently than Daniel’s, but I am far more excited when your’s do! Once again, thank you so much! Keep up the great work!
Brilliant video as always, sir. Despise damsel in distress, love triangles, and insta-love. The Daniel Green joke was A+ sir. We do love our disheveled goblin host. Seriously hate unpronounceable names. Whyyyyyyyy?
Love the video. I admire the editing work you put in every video. It makes it a pleasure to watch them every time 😃👍.
I'm too much of a D&D nerd to be unhappy with races/concepts used by Tolkien in other works. Seeing new races is really great and I'll happily dive into learning about them, but I'll also be perfectly happy to see things I'm already familiar with pop up. 😂
About advancement in the Mistborn books, there is a stated reason in the original trilogy that nothing advanced, the Lord Ruler supressed all technology advancements so it couldn't become a threat to him.
I love the creativity in your videos! Makes them different from everyone else on booktube that I watch! I always look forward to seeing a new video from you in my subscription list.
Jay: Hating on the edge lord trope
Six of Crows Fans: .... 😬
I love soc but not kaz :/
@@mintleafbluesey SAME I can’t stand Kaz
this was a great video, I really hate the miscommunication trope. I probably spelled that wrong. also you mentioned the goblin host himself which was fun. since I usually talk about what I'm reading in these comments I'll do the same here. right now I'm reading the shadow rising and LoTR and in 10 days words of radiance will arrive and I need to finish what I'm reading now before it comes.
The "no advancement" trope is pretty true to history in a certain light. Technology (and society) has changed more in the last 150 years than in the previous 10k.
dude your editing is sooo good!
Thanks! :)
I love your content so much I started with just the King Killer stuff but branched off and I even got into Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan Because of you, So thank you.
The farmboy trope is an extention of the amnesia or Isekai writing style. People complain about these tropes, but they tend to be the best way to teach the reader about the world, by having the reader learn about the world along with the protagonist. Or at least many writers find it easier to do that way without massive infodumps or the "as you know" trope that feel out of place in most stories.
There is nothing wrong with any trope, but some can be more tricky than others to do well.
Been waiting for this video, entertaining as always. The chosen one and the prophecy tropes are a quick way to make me dislike a story. The only way they work is if you subvert it or mess with it a little.
Propacy can also spoil the plot of the movie when done poorly (Pokemon 2000 original Japanese) nut when done well the twist can be quite memorable (Pokemon 2000 English dub)
4:33 farmboy to hero- the black cauldron ❤ lol
Calling Bilbo and Frodo a farm boy is a bit like calling Henry Ford III a car mechanic.
I agree on everything except (kinda) "The Chosen One" and "The Prophecy" - I think they can be done really really well (Berserk manga does both tropes extremely well) but most of the time they are not. But I really despise miscommunication, I think Wheel of Time is very guilty of this... some characters and their interractions just drive me nuts.
At this point I have a pseudo chosen one, a child promised to a faery court by an ancestor. This court bides its time waiting for her to be ready for what they want from her since her mother bargained on her behalf as an infant. Later she goes to a fortune teller for funsies only for it to be the real deal from what she can tell
I'm hoping those subvert things a bit. She isn't aware of the fey deal because they don't play fair. And the prophecy is vague and lets her know something she otherwise wouldn't have been told.
One of my favourite series has the main character being a cursed chosen one.
9:01 Yeah, I invented a lot of my own speicies, and borrowed some legendary creatures from around the world, lesser ones and popular ones.. Of course, brought back old favourites too, vampires, werewolves, zombies, witches....and thanks to the complicated Trellish language word structure, everything is hard to pronounce.
The trope that I think is being overused is the mentor character's death. The person knows everything. Has so much information that could have saved lives earlier but let's himself get killed before telling the hero something important that could have saved lives earlier.
I hate the "Friends to Lovers" trope, mainly when two characters have been friends since childhood, and then 17 years later decide they love each other (or have apparently "always loved each other"). I think this just rubs me the wrong way, though, since I have multiple friends I used to think I liked and then discovered I knew them too well to actually see them as anything but friends. Obviously this isn't everyone's experience, but because it's mine, I hate that trope.
Same here, also enemies to lovers if it feels really rushed and makes zero sense. Gotta get those love stories in there!
Sometimes I'm actually glad when a book doesn't have one.
@@Fayeluria I always appreciate a "loveless" novel, even if I don't like it, just because I'm kinda tired of the same love plots over and over😂🤷🏼♀️
Only if they were cousins and find out they weren't actually related.
@@brinleyowens2551 Funny thing is, the "friends to lovers" thing is the only way I'm capable of perceiving the concept of love. The way I see it, you either find out you can "level up" with your friend, or they're just a friend.
I find the romance without friendship to be a mere crush, based on idealized expectations that often end in disappointment once you get to really know the person.
*sees thumbnail*
It begins.
...as all good things
Great video! Although I gotta say that Voldemort isn’t just evil for evil’s sake. At the end of the day, most of what he does is because he’s trying to escape death.
Oh yeah I definitely agree, Voldemort has motivation for sure! I just used the clip of him to show a villain and to fill up a blank spot in the video haha. Sauron also has quite a bit of depth to his character as well and doesn't really fit the unmotivated evil trope either
I agree. That and also his puritan beliefs of no muggleborn magic.
And he's evil because no one loved him as a child, he has to project that anyone who relies on love is weak.
The dark lord trope can be done well, as in Lotr and WoT, where evil is a plain force of nature that drove Sauron, and the Dark One is a counterbalance to the creator
The best example of chosen one is Rand. Really good twist on it.
I've heard that when characters kill lots of goons in a big battle but don't want to plan to go murder the big bad, it's not always a result of moral contradictions; sometimes it's just rules of engagement. A big battle is a big battle and murder is murder, sort of. But the reasons for and situations surrounding killing the big bad can vary a lot.
Very true I cant think off the top of my head exactly which stories but ik ive seen some stories books and film where a character fights in battles fine but the actual moral quandary of killing comes into play when they kill someone who wasnt a "combatant" or wasnt percieved to be by other characters thus begins the whole now hes not just a soldier hes a murderer type deal
@@joetheschmoe1066 In Avatar, it's not always clear whether enemies were killed or not, but Aang hated the idea of *planning* to kill the Firelord. Honestly, that's different than heat of battle stuff.
Watching the video and visibly flinching as Wheel of Time (the all time GOAT) hits (nearly) every single one of these and thinking surely the next trope won't apply to WOT and then it super does 😅
I read a fantasy book and one of the plots was a instalove with a tragic end. God I cheered when he died
I don't know how you feel about the Sword of Truth series but one of my favorite things about Wizard's First Rule was how they subverted the prophecy trope. It warned against the dangers of taking prophecies at face value, many of which were fulfilled in unexpected ways, and placing an inordinate amount of faith in those prophecies. It also wrestles with the issue of prophecy/fate vs. free will, which I enjoyed. However the way Goodkind explains prophecy in his books is complicated, perhaps overly so. I was bummed that some of the later books begin to fall into the kind of prophecy tropes that I praise the earlier books for not having.
Stranger Things has Chosen One threads. I really can't think of a lot of times these tropes were unwelcome when they're done well. Case in point: the "evil" villain without motivation isn't so much a trope as it is an example of bad or lazy writing. My point is only that I worry people will get the idea that the trope is the problem, that every idea must somehow be completely unexplored territory. Sometimes people write themselves out into left field just trying to get away from "over-done" ideas, but this is a rabbit hole that leads to madness. I do appreciate that you pointed out the fact that execution is key, because the truth is that any idea recycled simply because we've seen it before and not because it was born out of character is going to fall flat. As long as you develop gripping characters and your plot springs forth _from_ those characters, I really think you're good. Often its following those character motivated paths that will lead the writer away from recycled ideas in the first place, or even if not entirely, their situation will feel unique enough to them that nobody will care. I never once thought of Interstellar as a "farmboy gets off the farm and goes on an adventure story" because my attention was firmly on the twists and turns of he and his daughter's characters. I think it boils down to: write a great yarn and understand what MAKES a yarn great. Thanks for all you do on this channel!
You are the chosen one.
Oh yea. I can relate to that. I've been randomly selected even though I have absolutely no experience.
The Chosen One trope is MASTERFULLY executed in a video game called Xenogears.
3:32
HELL YEAH!!!
I love the Belgariad, it’s so good.
Always gorgeously edited!
Thank you!
9:32 I mean, in the First Age (some surviving into the Second) you have magical lamps that never go out or need to be recharged (lamps of Feanor), video-calling gems (the Palantiri), magical security systems that also hide the protected location (Doriath and Gondolin), water moving and plumbing systems that allowed massive cities to exist underground (Doriath, Nargothrond, the dwarvish cities) and above, certainly equal to Ancient Rome and Harappa/Mojendaro, etc. Even in the Second Age you have the Doors of Durin, a magical and technological marvel, as well as the Rings of Power. The Middle Earth of Lord of the Rings has regressed technologically and magically, imo.
It took humans 5000 plus years to develop and weaponize gunpowder ti the point that the battlefield actually changed. The romans had better weapons equipment and tactics and a lot of it was lost and society regressed in europe during the dark age
In the end, of course, most of these tropes can be good if you know what to do with them, like taking them to newer direction, such as focusing on unique theme revolving around them that isn’t common in other storytelling.
7:10
That's kinda the plot of Kings of the Wyld.
Daniel Greene did a video on that if you wanna check it out.
Yesss I've been meaning to read Kings of the Wyld ever since watching Daniel's review! 👍
Damn that was quality. One of your funniest videos yet.
I tried to do a variation of “farmboy to hero” when I was teaching my kids to play d&d and my daughter was gonna start as a poor smelly animal caretaker but she wasn’t having it and got furious when I suggested that her character smelled bad. 😅😅😅😅
8:40
Nice, I have both.
I took the Pterolycus from German mythology and I made a type of troll like ogre-giant with white fur and wings, that lives in the snowfields, called a Drungull.
The hate for cliff-hanger trope well clarified lolll
Love it. The Belgariad really has more than half of the tropes here but is still awesome. Ce'Nedra isn't the needy princess type though 😂
Loved the video! To be honest with you, I don't get too caught up in tropes. If the story is gripping, I'll read it regardless. :-)
The Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne also subverts both the prophecy and chosen one trope.
Ahh I need to start that series!
A trope i here is when the main character is just super powerful. I prefer it when the protagonist is constantly overpowered or outmatched and they have to be smarter than their opponent.
The farm boy becoming a hero wouldn´t be so much of an issue if it wasn´t because most stories rarelly dwell on what it comes with such background. Farming, specially in medieval-esque settings, is a heavy-lifting job where gives you little room for learning other stuff that us the readers take now for granted, like reading or writing. But instead most protagonists who are supposed to be farmers tend to be weaklings and with basic academic knowledge, which makes you wonder why not make them the son of a wizard or a trader rather than a farmer.
A wise witch once said that everyone wants to be chosen, but if we wait for someone else to choose us, we'll die waiting.
I tip my hat to you and that intro, good sir 😂
Dont' know if you've read this, but Kings of the Wyld is pretty much what you mentioned about the old guys taking on another adventure. I freaking LOVED KotW and it's successor, Bloody Rose.
Haha thanks! I've been meaning to read Kings of the Wyld for quite awhile now, definitely need to get to it soon
That old people saving the world sounds great, lmao
One aspect of the 'farmboy' trope and others like them that I dislike is the complete fish out of water aspect where they go out into the world with absolutely no skills whatsoever so you need a warrior (Aragorn, Lan etc. . .) to protect them otherwise they would get killed by the first creature of darkness they meet and story is over bt oage 20 or 30.
You’ve said on your video about the tropes that maybe you’ve forgotten about, I hope you’ll make more videos about these tropes
Hellboy had a good twist on the Chosen One: The Prophecy says the hero is actually destined to destroy the world, even as he fights for goodness. This puts his love interest into a real quandary.
Good example!
I can never get enough Chosen One or Farmboy to Hero books. If its well done i dont mind it at all. Same with fantasy races. I love it when Authors create their own races but i also dont mind it if they use the standard elves, dwarfs and orcs :D
I love the video very much, but I gotta say in Lila's defense that the constant need to act and feel badass makes total sense with the background of the character and everything she had to deal with growing up by herself in a very unforgiving London - and later on, when she sees herself IN ANOTHER WORLD - well, a girl's gonna do what she needs to survive. Even be in a never-stopping "badass-self-pep talk" .
Oh nooo everyone hates insta love and I honestly kinda love it xD it has to fit the feel of the story though... If everything else is super realistic then it would just be out of place and too whimsical. But when to characters see each other for the first time and know instantly that they never want to be apart... I live for that stuff, I don't know why ahah
I never realized there were so many tropes, Dooh! Now I am gonna be looking for them Captured :-)
7:18 teenagers save the world is cool though. Lol
I remember being annoyed with the movie Armageddon cuz it was “loser guys save the world.” But of course everyone loves a good underdog tale.
The chosen one trope made the Faithful and the Fallen story so good! lol
"Some people just want to watch the world burn."
I actually have a whole host of villains who don't have any complicated motivation. They just want to kill everyone and destroy everything. And the reason is - they aren't really alive anymore. They were evil when they were alive and so they ended up with other evil people after death in a place where they torture each other by fighting and killing each other endlessly without being able to die. And when you end up in a situation like that - after a several thousands of years you just lose all other feelings apart from pure hate.
So when the barrier between planes weakens and people like that end in world of the living, they just spread this hate and violence. Because they no longer are able to function any other way.
They aren't main villains though most of the time. Well, apart from one or two of them who actually are significant due to massive power they wield. And those are slightly different because they aren't cannon fodder. They are rulers. And it shows in their behavior.
But of course the barrier doesn't really weaken all that often. Special conditions must be met. Most of the time a lot more complicated villains are there to make trouble. The world is a big place and lots of evil people are around. And also people who may not be evil but they just happen to have plans my main hero just can't go along with.
Also it's kinda stupid to make "fantasy tropes I hate" video where you kinda place vast majority of things that *MAKE IT* fantasy in the first place. Just go read sci-fi if you don't like fantasy. Using dwarves and elves doesn't have to make it a Tolkien ripoff. You can switch many things around. The elves don't have to be all kind and goody-two-shoes. They can be arrogant and not really like humans all that much. Dwarves don't have to just be miners. They can be this short but insanely hardy race that is almost completely resistant to magic a this may be why the elves and the dwarves don't get along. I mean if magic is vast reason of you race's power than you won't really like the ones that suck all magic out of you, right? You can introduce a whole host other races, including races that seem to be a sub-race of elves but aren't. There are many ways in which you can reinvent classic fantasy tropes.
I don't really get people who read fantasy book with elves not being named elves but basically replacing them - but hating classic elves just because of the name.
I made a story where a 40 year old man has to beat murderous children to save the world. They all have super powers. His power is to cancel other superpowers so he gets to physically beat the crap out of them - but he never kills them. I also made an isekai story about a 40 year old man who mistakenly gets summoned in a fantasy world instead of his son of the same name, and then he gets shunned because he has no super powers. He later gets demonic powers and kills everyone. I watched a lot of anime and it is frustrating when the heroes are literally kids beating old men with tons of experience.
Insta-love was my only issue with the Mistborn trilogy. But Brando Sando did really well with Era 2 when it comes to romance.
Great video tho!
Ahh yes I forgot the inta-love in Mistborn era 1 sort of bothered me as well, I was happy era 2 handled it better
9:50 also worth mentioning how the magic system evolves along with the civilization. How individuals are weaker with each generation but get more creative to compensate.
I can relate to this video TOO MUCH. Sometimes I even get unmotivated to read new fantasies because of these tropes.😅
Not a fan of secret royalty either... it seems to be the main reason a character is chosen, or somehow superior to the other characters around them. It seems to enforce the idea that the royal line is of ‘a better stock.’ When in reality some people rock being humans, while others have to figure it out, no matter what bloodline they come from.
in my campaign of D&D i've done the secret royality, but because the players were against the monarchy
Yes! Thank you for putting into words why I disliked the Darker Shade of Magic books! Also fits into the trope of “Evil for no reason” with the twins in white London.
Glad I'm not the only one that didn't really like it, and that's a good point about the twins!
Oh the missing family dynamic/ killed off parents and love triangles irk me too
On miscommunication:
Game of Thrones would have been over relatively quickly had Tyrion just explained to the Starks that the dagger wasn't his.
True! I think well-written miscommunication can also be used to drive a plotline or character arc, and it can definitely work in many cases if done well
7:10 Why hasn't this been done???? It NEEDS to exist. I WANT IT TO EXIST.
I think one of the reasons technological stagnation is frustrating is that so many fantasy authors have no grasp of economics and that ignorance informs their worldbuilding in hopelessly unrealistic ways.
One of the most difficult tasks in writing is to create a unique, original villain with motivations. :)
I personally used the unlike other girls trope in my book specifically for a book that's set in a world where women were expected to be nothing else but society's standards. She doesn't believe that doing feminine things is bad and she doesn't think she's better than anyone else. She simply believes that women shouldn't be forced to do this. As a women, I think it's important to respect how people present themselves. There is nothing wrong with being girly, and there is also nothing wrong with not being so.
Note: I haven't really come across this trope enough to form an opinion about how it's presented generally.
The "not like other [insert category]" trope often ends up cringe because the character in question acts superior to others (and very often, this trope is their entire personality).
Your character actually sounds like the right way to do that trope.
2:43 I have the 'Chosen One' trope in my world...but anyone can claim the title if they win a battle. If they hate the idea of it, they can pass it onto someone else. When my MC ended up with the title, he complained heavily on it, and forced it onto someone else. I must say, it is a strange cycle.
10:18
Okay, this distracted me so much
The scene shown is from the movie 12 Angry Men
Undeserved mercy makes me absolutely incandescent with rage. "uwu killing is wwong" they say as they step over the dead bodies of hundreds of footsoldiers. "I won't be like you" 😑
I haven't watched in a while. Nice intro
God talking to people in 14th century BC: voice from burning bush
God talking to people in 21th century AD video about hated tropes: bird carrying letters
Ironic.
The "I won't kill the bad guy cuz I'm better than that" trope is indeed the very worst.
Loved the video. Though I don't really agree with using ASOIAF as an example of stagnation, considering that the world as gone through several apocalpyses to the point that 60% of the map is covered with ruins of civilizations that became advanced and then fell.
Thanks! Yeah looking back I think I was definitely wrong with that opinion, I haven't read much ASOIAF so I'm no expert on the series
You know how to make a dark lord worse than just wanting to see the world burn? Give the dark lord motivation.
I like the chosen one trope and the secret royal will always be my go to
Unmotivated evil... I know people who're just evil, like scarily evil without even trying. It's as if you're talking to a wall. A slight nudge in the wrong direction could make them someone else...
Yeah that's true, I suppose there really is some evil people out there 😬