Ouch. But it was great to watch an honest review. Get fed up sometimes with reviewer after reviewer saying it's the best bike they've ever ridden. Until the next bike... So well done MCN for being frank as ever. Keep up the good work!
You know what these professional riders never mention? They never talk about the HORRIBLE lack of an overdrive gear. All the modern high performance motorcycles are geared for a race track, and they are NOT geared for driving at 80mph on the flat open highway. The lack of an overdrive is a deal breaker on all the new motorcycles. You should be getting 70 mpg on a modern motorcycle, not 48 mpg (gas mileage). And the engine revs, should NOT be 4,500 rpms at 70mph for a gentle cruise down the highway.... 6th gear should be a HIGHWAY CRUISING gear, not a passing gear. The ADV bikes, the Harley, the Tiger, the GS bikes, and the GL1800 Goldwings are way under geared, with no overdrive, and consumers are to blame for this.
I purchased a Pan America in June 2021 after a long line of BMW GS's going back 20 years. I have NEVER owned a Harley, and certainly wouldn't be any sort "fanboy" of the brand.. So far, my bike has been flawless with the exception of the clock not keeping proper time (corrected with last software update). I've ridden it a half dozen times in torrential downpours, but have never gone into "limp mode". I have heard of the exhaust heat shield falling off on some 2021s. From the photos I've seen, it looks like the metal tab cracks at the weld. This part was redesigned on the 2022 models and replaced units. It's also worth noting that there is a quick shifter option for 2022. I've not heard of any rear shock failure on any of the forums. The suspension is made by Showa, so it should be a quality unit. With that said, it’s new tech so let’s see if any widespread issues develop. Would I buy the bike again? Absolutely, but I’ll probably extend the warranty given it’s a completely new design. It's a great handling bike, probably the best front-end feedback of any ADV bike, certainly better than the numb feeling GS telelever. The suspension soaks up bumps, but never feels soft or wallows in fast sweepers. Go ride one, that's what sold me! My bike was made in Pennsylvania, with the engine assembled in Milwaukee. Are UK Pan America's made in the USA? So why did I leave BMW after so many years? The reliability started to falter on my last two GS's. My last one had to be towed to the shop 2x in less than 2.000 miles.
But what about that rattling screen - surely the technology to produce a good manually adjusted screen has been sorted by now. That one fault makes me think this bike is just a POS design and what about all the corrosion and rust. We all don't live in dry Texas.
The value of MCN doing a long term review over an ‘influencer’ doing a dressed up demo ride is immeasurable. Not needing to ‘influence’ the manufacturers lends itself to an honest review like this that removes the gushing ‘best bike ever’ nonsense seen on the merry band of self appointed experts with a camera and editing suite on their laptop. By some way MCN are showing themselves as the ‘go to’ for reviews. This sort of review has more value for the manufacturer than the marketing teams choice of amateurs with a GoPro.
I really appreciate these long term reviews. Hopefully Harley steps up and corrects these issues in this current generation before leaving a bad impression with potential owners.
This was really interesting and why I appreciate videos like this that you all do. I went to a local dealership last June to test ride one and as they were about to drive it out of the showroom for the test ride it wouldn’t start. An hour later they said that I’d have to postpone the test ride because they couldn’t get it started. Two weeks later I finally got to test ride it and while it was great I decided to buy something else and this video reinforces that was the right decision. Harley will no doubt work the niggles out over the next few years so your recommendation to wait to buy make total sense and is a fair assessment.
@@_Bryant.R I test rode the Pan America, the Ducati Multistrada V4s and the BMW s1000XR and went with the BMW. I have over 7,000 miles on it in 8 months and absolutely love it, best motorcycle I’ve owned!
@@pistolpete6321 very nice. My friends with GSA's wouldn't trade them for anything. A couple guys I know have over 100,000 miles and still going strong.
I purchased my HD Pan Am Special orange/white spoke wheels, last July. My motorcycle was built in May. 5000 miles on it now, only issues has been a recall on the plastic passenger seat hand grips and software reflashing to correct a few glitches. Other than that, my bike has ran great with zero issues. I replaced the front windshield with a Madstad , the oem shield is pretty flimsy. Added electric heated seat, pivot pegz, extended front and rear fenders, oed heavy skid plate, oem radiator guard. For the price of the special model it should have came with those items, but Harley - every thing is an accessory . Also I added some nice to have items as most owners do, a Rowe electronics Amplink, Zumo gps, USB charger, Rox risers, SW Motech tank bag , oem sport side and top bags probably a few more things I have forgotten. This is my third Harley, last one was a Road Glide. I wanted a lighter bike that I could take down a gravel road and not be afraid I would drop it and have to replace 500 bucks worth of chrome. The Pan Am has filled that wish . This is my first adventure style bike, all my previous motorcycles have been heavy touring models, so I am learning as I go. I have read lots of horror stories from new owners regarding the Pan Am, but about an equal amount from very happy owners. Except for a few minor design flaws that hopefully will be corrected in the next couple of years, I think allot of the issues with the Pan Am are due to inexperienced employees at Harley building the bikes. Sadly some of the Pam Am purchasers than getting to pay for the learning curve at the factory. 2022 models are out, we should be getting some feed back from owners of the latest builds to see if this assumption might have any truth to it. I know the 2022 models have a new wiring harness and sofware upgrades, not sure what else Harley has done.
I commend MCN for being down to earth and honest, so many times u watch a review where the journo reads out a spec sheet takes it around the block and says all the things the manufacturer want to hear and smiles...
I commend MCN for these long-term test videos. All the ones I have seen have been excellent and this one in particular will be valuable for anyone considering purchasing one of these bikes.
wow once again an amazing video.. .this serie slowly becomes my favourite on the internet. Great to have real feedback from people who knows bike and who ride them in the real world
As others have said best not to buy first edition of anything where its mostly new..especially something so different from usual HD..had similar default mode experience with a car at motorway speed once dread to think how much scarier potentially on a bike..honest and measured as ever well done MCN
Great review and love the honesty, love the long term ride reviews really proves how good or bad a bike is and shows that there’s more to a review and insight than a press review ride.
Good advice on the waiting to purchase one of these. Only as a Harley owner I have found them underwhelming in the reliability area too. Harley won’t be pleased, but they like to charge the premium price so they can suck up the criticism. Good job MCN.
You're doing Harley a service. They should watch this and fix every single thing wrong you mentioned and then give you the improved bike for another year.
If manufacturers stand by their products then that’s what warranty’s are all about. I’ve bought some first year model motorcycles and always had solid support from the dealership. Good first effort by Harley IMO but great ownership review 😎
LOVE the long-termers! The only way to really understand what a bike will actually be like to live with. Was always curious about the reliability, a critical feature of any kind of touring bike, and...suspicions confirmed. That one's off the list.
Like Jordan, I followed the development and I like the way the bike looks. I almost bought one, and would have if the dealer wouldn’t have screwed up the order process. I bought a 40-year GSA instead and I’m glad I did. Maybe in a few years…..
This is a real review. Most TH-camrs are just uploading a first ride impression. They also don’t want to upset the franchise or manufacturer that’s loaning them the bike. For such an expensive bike the quality and reliability are shockingly poor.
Wow! Such a shame that you’ve had so many problems with you PanAm. But thank’s for the honest review; we need more like this one. I’ve had a PanAm Special since last July, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Such a fun bike to ride. Guess that I’ve been lucky, cause I haven’t had a single problem with reliability, except for the clock being unreliable (but I hear there’s a software fix for that). Glad I purchased last year when they were cheaper, and also glad that I purchased a 3 year extended warranty. That give me 5 years of warranty coverage, and by that time I’ll be looking for a new bike purchase.
11:45 wow. That really put's it into perspective, I've got an BMW S1000XR with 30k miles and even trashing it, exposing it to weather, even went down on it once, not a single error code, not a single anything. That bike never ever in my life gave me an error code apart from burnt out bulbs and the fuel light. The only time it did, when the ABS and TC all went but that was because tyre shop bent the front ABS ring, they replaced it, everything works immediately, no issues, been rock solid ever since. It's all anecdotal but now that i think about it, my Ninja 650, which is meant to be a bulletproof bike has had more issues than this XR packed with mountains of electronics and an incredibly complex engine and suspension system.
There is something about the 1000cc engine that BMW did, I have a RR and had the same experience as you, its the most reliable bike I had, and its a damn superbike.
@@aao331 I mean don't get me wrong, it sounds like chains slapping, rattling, and like it's about to blow up, but everytime you twist that throttle, 0 complaints, pulls just as sweet as brand new.
This is actually my favourite harley. But my friend got one and it's had quite a few problems. Luckily so far all resolved or being resolved under warranty. Still it does seem to have a bit of concern about reliability. Love to see reviews from honest people who don't do a ride out over a weekend and wax lyrical about how perfect it is 😬
These proper long term reviews really show up a bike for what it is. The looks of the Pan America has grown on me as the months went by, but there is no way I would buy one, partly because of this review but, partly because if I were to buy an 'Adventure' bike I'd want something simple, without all the electronics - so I wouldn't buy a GS either. I think people are starting to realise this and buying smaller 'Adventure' bikes instead. A Pan American or GS are great mile munchers, but on a true adventure you don't want to use the motorway, so, in reality, they're wrongly categorised. Bikes like the CRF300 Rally, and other bikes of that sort of size are the true 'Adventure' bikes. At least, for most people.
I have to agree with Geoff, after ownig a series of Adventure Tourers including Vstrom 1000, Versys 1000, Honda 700 Transalp ,Vstrom 650 and a F700GS BM I've now downsized to a Versys 300 but upsized in the amount of fun I have especially when taking the bike offroad to do some back roads exploring !
I agree with you just to much electronics on stuff these day's. Just need ABS, traction control, cruise control made some heated grips about it. Don't need proximity key's, 10 different power modes etc
Thanks for the video not everyone has those issues which like you said is frustrating as HD are normally pretty well built and reliable as have been all mine in the last 20 years of riding them. Mine has the corroded spokes which are supposed to be stainless steel but they are definitely not!! I have complained and got no where with Harley Davidson UK who said I don’t know how to wash and look after a bike 😡 Other than that mine has been super reliable and starts and runs great.
Yes, the screaming eagle quick shifter is offered as an accessary purchase, $299 here in the US. Just like the tire changes, the QS requires a dealer Digital Technician update/flash, thus more money. That is a common theme with HD, the nickel and diming of their clientele.
Interesting… I own one too, had it the same timeframe and same mileage. I haven’t had anywhere near the problems MCN has had. Yes the heat shield on mine has broken (new one underway), but mine has never failed to start, never gone in to limp mode. Seems like MCN got a bad one, they do seem to be out there, sadly. I’m a bit pissed about the quick shifter not working on the ‘21 wtf I’d that about? I haven’t noticed any rust on mine, I’ll have to go check it!
Harley Davidson did their homework on this engine. No more pushrods, no more huge primary chain in oil, no more lifters, and no more three hole oil fill and draining. Having a liquid cooled engine & oil allows you to operate like a car in traffic and to stop and talk without having to shut motor off. The ride modes in the Revolution Max has all design flaws designed out. When this motor/engine has a touring model in touring bikes it will be a game changer. Once a few bugs are worked out he is speaking on boom HD has a gold mine. Now the Sportster 1200 and 975 have this engine means this platform is the way forward. His issues welcoming because problems are exposed so their fixed.
Hi Lads not going to argue other than add to your criticisms having owned one. My first breakdown was 27 miles but had a great dealer who got it sorted quickly. I didn't like the position of the indicator switch , the position of the battery, the tiny foot and brake pegs and finally the heat given off of the heat shield. But to give the criticism some balance it also some great technology on it. However given its Harleys first Adventure bike its quite good . But it worried me if it went wrong. Yes the torque of the engine is great but I just did not like the sound of it with the standard exhaust compared to the GS that I traded in for it. Must admit I really am a fan of the Boxer engine as well. Wanting to stay with the Harley brand I part exchanged it for a Fat Boy and loved the engine but soon discovered sitting low with my legs forward was not for me. Thats now been sold and I am looking forward to a 2018 GS being delivered to me.
Good review, like the long term aspect, issues dont sway me from planning on getting one in the next year tho, also have seen others with much better luck long term, as a short rider this is my best option for a big adventure bike, also in the us there’s a better dealer support than say bmw or ktm (not 100% sure but i see more harley dealers in general)
Shame is was considering buying one but the price rise and unreliability have put me off. I have the same problem with KTM, having been a service manager for A KTM dealership.
i really want this bike.. esp for short person like me.. love the look... wish it had a shaft drive / quickshift... guess ill wait 3 years till they iron things out
Unfortunately I own a pan america. I bought a standard one as I prefer analogue suspension. Everything about my bike is great. BUT then it comes to the bad bits, it won't start occasionally, now when I go to switch it off it will keep running for about 20-30 sec before it cuts out, I've been told to keep riding it's ok. I get some sort of warning light evertime I ride. I have rust spots all over the can and Harley won't sort it under warranty. There is more rust on this bike than I had on my Aprilia of 3yrs with 36k miles. I am afraid of taking the bike out incase it rusts away. The build quality is terrible I've seen Chinese bikes with better build quality. I love this bike but with how it is I am already looking at getting rid of it and it's only got 3k miles on. Appalling, I will never walk into another Harley dealership with intention to buy.
I appreciate that prices are going up, inflation (everything but my wages it seems 🙄) but the 2022 base model has gone up by £800 in a year! That’s absolutely extortionate.
was thinking of buying one..not now. too many major problems. i heard of engine blow outs. rush to market. has HD ever improved their reliability or maybe they care too much on image marketing
Yea but if you never release it you never really get real world miles on it. There's some things you just can't learn until you set it free and let people live with it in the real world. I'm not a HD fan, I'll probably never ride one, but it's their first shot at this. It'll be iterated on and improved over time.
I had a friend a few years ago that said he appreciated the free storage that Harley dealers offer with every purchase. Well, if you consider being in the shop for 6 months of the year due to warranty work.
What about Pan America Special 2021 or 2022 First time I seat on it my thighs was bugging me. It wasn't comfortable. I'm disappointed. It was 2021 P.A.S.
It matter Harley Davidson definitely took their time in the development of the Revolution Max engine format. It’s the the new technology way forward for HD and going back is not an option. The days of low technology 1950’s/1960’s bottom end cams, huge primary chain, 3 hole oil filling, and overly labor intensive hot air cooled motors are done.
Agreed. Ahead of it's time. Good bike, with a very high seat. I have a 33" inside leg and was on tiptoes on the Ulysses. No hope if you were under 6' tall 🙄
Bikes are like food. Presentation is the first thing, and to me this bike looks like a dog’s dinner. For less money you can get a real adventure bike that looks nice and doesn’t have to go back to the dealer every time you ride it.
Sounds like this chap's bike is a bit of a lemon with all the issues. I have a 2021 model and agree that QA at the Factory is very ordinary resulting in breakdowns for a minority of customers. That said, Harley has sorted many of the electronic issues, including the ones mentioned here (eg. clock time going off) and non-consequential codes popping up with ECU updates and I have never experienced the kinds of breakdowns/limp mode mentioned in this video. The windscreen system, even though it's flimsy, works and provides excellent wind protection for the rider but no so for the passenger (where the passenger is either of similar or taller height than the rider). The passenger is bombarded with horrible wind buffeting at highway speed - even with the optional 18" taller screen. This is because, the stock system actually tilts the windscreen downwards and backward in the highest position. I fitted an aftermarket Madstad windscreen system with the same windshield height (18") and it's excellent, super solid and sends the wind over both the rider and the passenger - no wind buffeting for both. The only negative is that you must stop to adjust the windshield height. I think the hand controls are very good - sometimes reviewers should have a quick read of the owners manual before they criticize them (manually cancelling the indicator is not the same as on some other EU/English makers). The criticism I have of the hand controls is that given there are so many features, you really need to know where 's where and what's what for night riding because the controls are not lit up.
great frank discussion. And in a better world, you should get xmas cards from HD, they should be excited to get the constructive criticism and improve their product, not rest on all hype and less than honest media reviews and coverage.
While I am glad to see more competition in the segment and was interested when it was first announced, it's too Harley for me. I'd rather spend a little more and opt for the new Tiger 1200 or the GSA or even a KTM SA.
I've been riding HD's for 30yrs and sold the Road-King I'd had for 20yrs with the intention of trading in my other bike (a Tracer 900GT) for one. The test ride was disappointing; the exhaust grilled my right leg, the screen rattled, the info on the display was hard to read and it didn't feel like a quality product. I also doubted that It would be reliable, or that the dealer would keep me on the road if it all went t*ts up. I got back on my Tracer and preferred it to the Pan Am. Ended up buying a 1250GS from Williams Motorrad (great dealer), which has done 5,500 miles with no probs whatsoever. Love the GS. I hope HD sort the issues out because I really wanted a Pan America and to stay in the Harley 'family'. This video supports my choice, but it's still a shame.
2023 PA Special...so far so good only have 700miles..but not a single problem..also have a 23 RG CVO..it has 1400miles on it..has had several issues..will require it to be dropped off to repair...all iss are engine related...at this point my PA is my favorite motorcycle ...and feels like it going to be bullet proof..note..at 68 years old..i will not be pushing the bike to it limits..so I exspect only minor problems..u
If it was reliable it would be excellent,however I had multiple episodes of “limp mode” far from home even after dealer had corrected these issues. Also dead battery for no reason. I would never have confidence in it again,so I got rid of it after 5 months,2500 miles. I had had 8 other Harley or Buells since 1999 and never had reliability or significant other issues. Very disappointed!
It's the first Harley that's going to be used 365 days a year, and it's clearly not up to it like the GS is or Africa twin,It's very strange that with Harleys large R&D budget they could not have done better, no excuse for fastners ect not holding up to winter use. I think they need to work more with european and Japanese manufacturers for some of there components to ensure durability, this is a first for them making a technology advanced bike, so i would cut them some slack.The engine a winner, the rest needs a lot of development on the durability front. Love my sportster 48, a real feel good bike.
My brand new Harley Davidson Pan America has broken down after only 432 miles and left me stranded on a camp site for 3 days so far. I’m currently sitting in a field where in the middle of nowhere, in a windy tent with no bike. Harley Assist are next to useless! What is the telephone number for Harley Davidson customer services please?
Most issues are the same ones well known in Pan America forums. Forgot to mention the radiator hose can be melted by the pipe. Harley should step up with fixes for everything and not wait until forced to act by recalls. Don’t let the bike get a bad reputation, it will never recover, and Harley needs this engine to work in several models.
Good review. I had to watch it twice, I was completely distracted by its abysmal appearance the first time. I image patriotic US buyers will buy enough of them to give HD time to sort the faults out.
Ouch. But it was great to watch an honest review. Get fed up sometimes with reviewer after reviewer saying it's the best bike they've ever ridden. Until the next bike... So well done MCN for being frank as ever. Keep up the good work!
Great review. Who would buy one after learning all this/ I would never buy a Harley.
You know what these professional riders never mention? They never talk about the HORRIBLE lack of an overdrive gear. All the modern high performance motorcycles are geared for a race track, and they are NOT geared for driving at 80mph on the flat open highway. The lack of an overdrive is a deal breaker on all the new motorcycles. You should be getting 70 mpg on a modern motorcycle, not 48 mpg (gas mileage). And the engine revs, should NOT be 4,500 rpms at 70mph for a gentle cruise down the highway.... 6th gear should be a HIGHWAY CRUISING gear, not a passing gear. The ADV bikes, the Harley, the Tiger, the GS bikes, and the GL1800 Goldwings are way under geared, with no overdrive, and consumers are to blame for this.
I purchased a Pan America in June 2021 after a long line of BMW GS's going back 20 years. I have NEVER owned a Harley, and certainly wouldn't be any sort
"fanboy" of the brand..
So far, my bike has been flawless with the exception of the clock not keeping proper time (corrected with last software update).
I've ridden it a half dozen times in torrential
downpours, but have never gone into "limp mode".
I have heard of the exhaust heat shield falling off on some 2021s. From the photos I've seen, it looks like the metal tab cracks at the weld. This part was redesigned on the 2022 models and replaced units.
It's also worth noting that there is a quick shifter option for 2022.
I've not heard of any rear shock failure on any of the forums. The suspension is made by Showa, so it should be a quality unit. With that said, it’s new tech so let’s see if any widespread issues develop.
Would I buy the bike again? Absolutely, but I’ll probably extend the warranty given it’s a completely new design.
It's a great handling bike, probably the best front-end feedback of any ADV bike, certainly better than the numb feeling GS telelever. The suspension soaks up
bumps, but never feels soft or wallows in fast sweepers. Go ride one, that's what sold me!
My bike was made in Pennsylvania, with the engine assembled in Milwaukee. Are UK Pan America's made in the USA?
So why did I leave BMW after so many years? The reliability started to falter on my last two GS's. My last one had to be towed to the shop 2x in less than 2.000 miles.
Mine has also been reliable. My biggest complaint is the short, wimpy kickstand.
Im with you on both leaving GSs behind and moving to a Pan America. Great bike.
But what about that rattling screen - surely the technology to produce a good manually adjusted screen has been sorted by now. That one fault makes me think this bike is just a POS design and what about all the corrosion and rust. We all don't live in dry Texas.
The value of MCN doing a long term review over an ‘influencer’ doing a dressed up demo ride is immeasurable. Not needing to ‘influence’ the manufacturers lends itself to an honest review like this that removes the gushing ‘best bike ever’ nonsense seen on the merry band of self appointed experts with a camera and editing suite on their laptop. By some way MCN are showing themselves as the ‘go to’ for reviews. This sort of review has more value for the manufacturer than the marketing teams choice of amateurs with a GoPro.
I really appreciate these long term reviews. Hopefully Harley steps up and corrects these issues in this current generation before leaving a bad impression with potential owners.
Jordan was brilliant. Let’s have more of him. 👍🏻
Thanks for your honesty. You probably saved me a lot of heartache.
These long term reviews are always so well done, and thorough. Cheers lads, enjoyed this.
Perhaps it brings new meaning to an adventure bike.
An adventure never knowing what’s going to break next!
Pan in pan america stands for pandemic
This was really interesting and why I appreciate videos like this that you all do. I went to a local dealership last June to test ride one and as they were about to drive it out of the showroom for the test ride it wouldn’t start. An hour later they said that I’d have to postpone the test ride because they couldn’t get it started. Two weeks later I finally got to test ride it and while it was great I decided to buy something else and this video reinforces that was the right decision. Harley will no doubt work the niggles out over the next few years so your recommendation to wait to buy make total sense and is a fair assessment.
What did you get? There's a list of a few bikes I'd have over this in this segment.
@@_Bryant.R I test rode the Pan America, the Ducati Multistrada V4s and the BMW s1000XR and went with the BMW. I have over 7,000 miles on it in 8 months and absolutely love it, best motorcycle I’ve owned!
@@pistolpete6321 very nice. My friends with GSA's wouldn't trade them for anything. A couple guys I know have over 100,000 miles and still going strong.
@@_Bryant.R fantastic motorcycle as well!
Finally. A review instead of an ad.
I purchased my HD Pan Am Special orange/white spoke wheels, last July. My motorcycle was built in May. 5000 miles on it now, only issues has been a recall on the plastic passenger seat hand grips and software reflashing to correct a few glitches. Other than that, my bike has ran great with zero issues. I replaced the front windshield with a Madstad , the oem shield is pretty flimsy. Added electric heated seat, pivot pegz, extended front and rear fenders, oed heavy skid plate, oem radiator guard. For the price of the special model it should have came with those items, but Harley - every thing is an accessory . Also I added some nice to have items as most owners do, a Rowe electronics Amplink, Zumo gps, USB charger, Rox risers, SW Motech tank bag , oem sport side and top bags probably a few more things I have forgotten. This is my third Harley, last one was a Road Glide. I wanted a lighter bike that I could take down a gravel road and not be afraid I would drop it and have to replace 500 bucks worth of chrome. The Pan Am has filled that wish . This is my first adventure style bike, all my previous motorcycles have been heavy touring models, so I am learning as I go. I have read lots of horror stories from new owners regarding the Pan Am, but about an equal amount from very happy owners. Except for a few minor design flaws that hopefully will be corrected in the next couple of years, I think allot of the issues with the Pan Am are due to inexperienced employees at Harley building the bikes. Sadly some of the Pam Am purchasers than getting to pay for the learning curve at the factory.
2022 models are out, we should be getting some feed back from owners of the latest builds to see if this assumption might have any truth to it. I know the 2022 models have a new wiring harness and sofware upgrades, not sure what else Harley has done.
I commend MCN for being down to earth and honest, so many times u watch a review where the journo reads out a spec sheet takes it around the block and says all the things the manufacturer want to hear and smiles...
I commend MCN for these long-term test videos. All the ones I have seen have been excellent and this one in particular will be valuable for anyone considering purchasing one of these bikes.
Love this series - honest opinions from folk who know what they’re talking about.
wow once again an amazing video.. .this serie slowly becomes my favourite on the internet. Great to have real feedback from people who knows bike and who ride them in the real world
As others have said best not to buy first edition of anything where its mostly new..especially something so different from usual HD..had similar default mode experience with a car at motorway speed once dread to think how much scarier potentially on a bike..honest and measured as ever well done MCN
Great review and love the honesty, love the long term ride reviews really proves how good or bad a bike is and shows that there’s more to a review and insight than a press review ride.
Good advice on the waiting to purchase one of these. Only as a Harley owner I have found them underwhelming in the reliability area too. Harley won’t be pleased, but they like to charge the premium price so they can suck up the criticism. Good job MCN.
MCN are the best reviews! Thanks guys for the great reviews!
You're doing Harley a service. They should watch this and fix every single thing wrong you mentioned and then give you the improved bike for another year.
Great honest review, really enjoying these..
Brilliant! That's what I want from a long-term review.
I appreciate 100% honest reviews, thank you!!!
Such a good bike review, honest, true, comments. Money can't buy this type of long term test.
If manufacturers stand by their products then that’s what warranty’s are all about. I’ve bought some first year model motorcycles and always had solid support from the dealership. Good first effort by Harley IMO but great ownership review 😎
LOVE the long-termers! The only way to really understand what a bike will actually be like to live with. Was always curious about the reliability, a critical feature of any kind of touring bike, and...suspicions confirmed. That one's off the list.
Like Jordan, I followed the development and I like the way the bike looks. I almost bought one, and would have if the dealer wouldn’t have screwed up the order process. I bought a 40-year GSA instead and I’m glad I did. Maybe in a few years…..
Great Video, I appreciate the honesty!
Thank you for the honest review. I was looking forward to the Bronx concept if that ever went into production.
This is a real review. Most TH-camrs are just uploading a first ride impression. They also don’t want to upset the franchise or manufacturer that’s loaning them the bike. For such an expensive bike the quality and reliability are shockingly poor.
These are great videos, well done MCN 👍
Great video, sums up why people buy Hondas, Suzukis, BMWs and Yamaha's.
Highlights the value of long-term tests - appreciate honest reviews.
Wow! Such a shame that you’ve had so many problems with you PanAm. But thank’s for the honest review; we need more like this one.
I’ve had a PanAm Special since last July, and I thoroughly enjoy it. Such a fun bike to ride. Guess that I’ve been lucky, cause I haven’t had a single problem with reliability, except for the clock being unreliable (but I hear there’s a software fix for that). Glad I purchased last year when they were cheaper, and also glad that I purchased a 3 year extended warranty. That give me 5 years of warranty coverage, and by that time I’ll be looking for a new bike purchase.
That was a very good and honest review. Thank you
11:45 wow. That really put's it into perspective, I've got an BMW S1000XR with 30k miles and even trashing it, exposing it to weather, even went down on it once, not a single error code, not a single anything. That bike never ever in my life gave me an error code apart from burnt out bulbs and the fuel light. The only time it did, when the ABS and TC all went but that was because tyre shop bent the front ABS ring, they replaced it, everything works immediately, no issues, been rock solid ever since. It's all anecdotal but now that i think about it, my Ninja 650, which is meant to be a bulletproof bike has had more issues than this XR packed with mountains of electronics and an incredibly complex engine and suspension system.
There is something about the 1000cc engine that BMW did, I have a RR and had the same experience as you, its the most reliable bike I had, and its a damn superbike.
@@aao331 I mean don't get me wrong, it sounds like chains slapping, rattling, and like it's about to blow up, but everytime you twist that throttle, 0 complaints, pulls just as sweet as brand new.
This is actually my favourite harley. But my friend got one and it's had quite a few problems. Luckily so far all resolved or being resolved under warranty. Still it does seem to have a bit of concern about reliability. Love to see reviews from honest people who don't do a ride out over a weekend and wax lyrical about how perfect it is 😬
These proper long term reviews really show up a bike for what it is. The looks of the Pan America has grown on me as the months went by, but there is no way I would buy one, partly because of this review but, partly because if I were to buy an 'Adventure' bike I'd want something simple, without all the electronics - so I wouldn't buy a GS either. I think people are starting to realise this and buying smaller 'Adventure' bikes instead. A Pan American or GS are great mile munchers, but on a true adventure you don't want to use the motorway, so, in reality, they're wrongly categorised. Bikes like the CRF300 Rally, and other bikes of that sort of size are the true 'Adventure' bikes. At least, for most people.
I have to agree with Geoff, after ownig a series of Adventure Tourers including Vstrom 1000, Versys 1000, Honda 700 Transalp ,Vstrom 650 and a F700GS BM I've now downsized to a Versys 300 but upsized in the amount of fun I have especially when taking the bike offroad to do some back roads exploring !
I agree with you just to much electronics on stuff these day's. Just need ABS, traction control, cruise control made some heated grips about it. Don't need proximity key's, 10 different power modes etc
This is really useful series of videos, something i cant say very often.
Great reviews these MCN longtermers 👍
When there are so many good bikes out there to buy this has got to be at the bottom of the list.My take.Thanks.
Thanks for the video not everyone has those issues which like you said is frustrating as HD are normally pretty well built and reliable as have been all mine in the last 20 years of riding them.
Mine has the corroded spokes which are supposed to be stainless steel but they are definitely not!! I have complained and got no where with Harley Davidson UK who said I don’t know how to wash and look after a bike 😡
Other than that mine has been super reliable and starts and runs great.
I had one those on pre-order, glad I went KTM (which has less problems). Anyhoo, thanks for the honest review.
Did they fix all these issues on the 2024 other than they upgraded the wiring? Thanks
Yes, the screaming eagle quick shifter is offered as an accessary purchase, $299 here in the US. Just like the tire changes, the QS requires a dealer Digital Technician update/flash, thus more money. That is a common theme with HD, the nickel and diming of their clientele.
Interesting… I own one too, had it the same timeframe and same mileage. I haven’t had anywhere near the problems MCN has had. Yes the heat shield on mine has broken (new one underway), but mine has never failed to start, never gone in to limp mode. Seems like MCN got a bad one, they do seem to be out there, sadly. I’m a bit pissed about the quick shifter not working on the ‘21 wtf I’d that about? I haven’t noticed any rust on mine, I’ll have to go check it!
I have one and really enjoy it so far.
Mine had some stupid stuff fixed with a software update. Other than that, 6k miles and super fun.
great review and sound advice
Jordan you have owned KTMs. Should have been used to limp modes by now. 😉
Ha! Believe it or not in all my years with a KTM I've only had one reg/rec failure and even then it got me home before it conked out fully - Jordan
Harley Davidson did their homework on this engine. No more pushrods, no more huge primary chain in oil, no more lifters, and no more three hole oil fill and draining. Having a liquid cooled engine & oil allows you to operate like a car in traffic and to stop and talk without having to shut motor off. The ride modes in the Revolution Max has all design flaws designed out. When this motor/engine has a touring model in touring bikes it will be a game changer.
Once a few bugs are worked out he is speaking on boom HD has a gold mine. Now the Sportster 1200 and 975 have this engine means this platform is the way forward. His issues welcoming because problems are exposed so their fixed.
Great review, well done MCN team, these videos are awesome and needed. Hope you've shared this one with HD headquarters! 👍👍
Hi Lads not going to argue other than add to your criticisms having owned one. My first breakdown was 27 miles but had a great dealer who got it sorted quickly. I didn't like the position of the indicator switch , the position of the battery, the tiny foot and brake pegs and finally the heat given off of the heat shield. But to give the criticism some balance it also some great technology on it. However given its Harleys first Adventure bike its quite good . But it worried me if it went wrong. Yes the torque of the engine is great but I just did not like the sound of it with the standard exhaust compared to the GS that I traded in for it. Must admit I really am a fan of the Boxer engine as well. Wanting to stay with the Harley brand I part exchanged it for a Fat Boy and loved the engine but soon discovered sitting low with my legs forward was not for me. Thats now been sold and I am looking forward to a 2018 GS being delivered to me.
Great video series!
I'm currently cross shopping a Pan America with an Africa Twin Adventure Sports. Any thoughts?
Good review, like the long term aspect, issues dont sway me from planning on getting one in the next year tho, also have seen others with much better luck long term, as a short rider this is my best option for a big adventure bike, also in the us there’s a better dealer support than say bmw or ktm (not 100% sure but i see more harley dealers in general)
Shame is was considering buying one but the price rise and unreliability have put me off. I have the same problem with KTM, having been a service manager for A KTM dealership.
i really want this bike.. esp for short person like me.. love the look... wish it had a shaft drive / quickshift... guess ill wait 3 years till they iron things out
Unfortunately I own a pan america. I bought a standard one as I prefer analogue suspension.
Everything about my bike is great. BUT then it comes to the bad bits, it won't start occasionally, now when I go to switch it off it will keep running for about 20-30 sec before it cuts out, I've been told to keep riding it's ok. I get some sort of warning light evertime I ride. I have rust spots all over the can and Harley won't sort it under warranty. There is more rust on this bike than I had on my Aprilia of 3yrs with 36k miles. I am afraid of taking the bike out incase it rusts away. The build quality is terrible I've seen Chinese bikes with better build quality.
I love this bike but with how it is I am already looking at getting rid of it and it's only got 3k miles on. Appalling, I will never walk into another Harley dealership with intention to buy.
"Everything about my bike is great. BUT" LOL.
Yip lol, wish it was always great haha
👏🏼👏🏼 por fin alguien honesto!!
I purchased new a 2020 m8 softail and have 33k miles with 0 problems.
thanks, I'll give them a few years to work out the kinks. I'm hoping this project will be successful.
I appreciate that prices are going up, inflation (everything but my wages it seems 🙄) but the 2022 base model has gone up by £800 in a year! That’s absolutely extortionate.
Compare that percentage to current inflation and it won't seem unusual.
was thinking of buying one..not now. too many major problems. i heard of engine blow outs. rush to market. has HD ever improved their reliability or maybe they care too much on image marketing
unreilable at that price! wow~!! Thanks for the heads up! ;-)
Nice to have a honest review, HD need to go back to the drawing board.
Well done MCN!
Very nice review
Another killer in this series. We can read a hundred reviews, but nothing beats personal experience; of anything.
Sad for HD, maybe too soon to come to market and longer testing was needed on sub-optimal roads. I really hope they sort these issues out.
Yea but if you never release it you never really get real world miles on it. There's some things you just can't learn until you set it free and let people live with it in the real world. I'm not a HD fan, I'll probably never ride one, but it's their first shot at this. It'll be iterated on and improved over time.
I had a friend a few years ago that said he appreciated the free storage that Harley dealers offer with every purchase. Well, if you consider being in the shop for 6 months of the year due to warranty work.
Sounds like the Beta version went into production, would have liked to support HD, but a long way to go before I trade my GSA in
Great review
Good review.
The reliably reminds me of my Benelli 1130 TREK “ was never 👎 sure it would make a hole ride .
What about Pan America Special 2021 or 2022 First time I seat on it my thighs was bugging me. It wasn't comfortable. I'm disappointed. It was 2021 P.A.S.
Well doesn't surprise me. Damn shame because harely seemed like they were gonna hit the ball out of the park
It matter Harley Davidson definitely took their time in the development of the Revolution Max engine format. It’s the the new technology way forward for HD and going back is not an option. The days of low technology 1950’s/1960’s bottom end cams, huge primary chain, 3 hole oil filling, and overly labor intensive hot air cooled motors are done.
Good review..ouch on your problems. :( I’ve not had 1 issue after 6 months, I don’t know how others faired.
Get your act together Harley !!!!
It's normal! As they say, if a Harley doesn't leaking oil - there is no more oil.
I would consider the Buell Ulysses as HD first adventure bike.
Agreed. Ahead of it's time. Good bike, with a very high seat. I have a 33" inside leg and was on tiptoes on the Ulysses. No hope if you were under 6' tall 🙄
Love these long term reviews, nice work MCN. First year of production is rarily the best year but this was just awful…
Put that engine in a street fighter with the full 150 hp, good suspension and up/down qs and keep the weight around 450 lbs u got a winner
Bikes are like food. Presentation is the first thing, and to me this bike looks like a dog’s dinner. For less money you can get a real adventure bike that looks nice and doesn’t have to go back to the dealer every time you ride it.
Sounds like this chap's bike is a bit of a lemon with all the issues. I have a 2021 model and agree that QA at the Factory is very ordinary resulting in breakdowns for a minority of customers. That said, Harley has sorted many of the electronic issues, including the ones mentioned here (eg. clock time going off) and non-consequential codes popping up with ECU updates and I have never experienced the kinds of breakdowns/limp mode mentioned in this video. The windscreen system, even though it's flimsy, works and provides excellent wind protection for the rider but no so for the passenger (where the passenger is either of similar or taller height than the rider). The passenger is bombarded with horrible wind buffeting at highway speed - even with the optional 18" taller screen. This is because, the stock system actually tilts the windscreen downwards and backward in the highest position. I fitted an aftermarket Madstad windscreen system with the same windshield height (18") and it's excellent, super solid and sends the wind over both the rider and the passenger - no wind buffeting for both. The only negative is that you must stop to adjust the windshield height. I think the hand controls are very good - sometimes reviewers should have a quick read of the owners manual before they criticize them (manually cancelling the indicator is not the same as on some other EU/English makers). The criticism I have of the hand controls is that given there are so many features, you really need to know where 's where and what's what for night riding because the controls are not lit up.
great frank discussion. And in a better world, you should get xmas cards from HD, they should be excited to get the constructive criticism and improve their product, not rest on all hype and less than honest media reviews and coverage.
What is his height? Just to get a gauge of the auto Ride Height references.
5'6"ish with a 31"ish inside leg - Jordan
While I am glad to see more competition in the segment and was interested when it was first announced, it's too Harley for me. I'd rather spend a little more and opt for the new Tiger 1200 or the GSA or even a KTM SA.
I've been riding HD's for 30yrs and sold the Road-King I'd had for 20yrs with the intention of trading in my other bike (a Tracer 900GT) for one. The test ride was disappointing; the exhaust grilled my right leg, the screen rattled, the info on the display was hard to read and it didn't feel like a quality product. I also doubted that It would be reliable, or that the dealer would keep me on the road if it all went t*ts up. I got back on my Tracer and preferred it to the Pan Am. Ended up buying a 1250GS from Williams Motorrad (great dealer), which has done 5,500 miles with no probs whatsoever. Love the GS. I hope HD sort the issues out because I really wanted a Pan America and to stay in the Harley 'family'. This video supports my choice, but it's still a shame.
OK thanks - NEXT! A Triumph Tiger perhaps? I already hate the height and weight of the BMW GS's.
My desire for one of this has rightly died off. Such a shame.
2023 PA Special...so far so good only have 700miles..but not a single problem..also have a 23 RG CVO..it has 1400miles on it..has had several issues..will require it to be dropped off to repair...all iss are engine related...at this point my PA is my favorite motorcycle ...and feels like it going to be bullet proof..note..at 68 years old..i will not be pushing the bike to it limits..so I exspect only minor problems..u
Shame the reliability has been so bad, not that I have any interest in it but it was good to se HD do more than push rod cruisers.
If it was reliable it would be excellent,however I had multiple episodes of “limp mode” far from home even after dealer had corrected these issues. Also dead battery for no reason. I would never have confidence in it again,so I got rid of it after 5 months,2500 miles. I had had 8 other Harley or Buells since 1999 and never had reliability or significant other issues. Very disappointed!
Weird, I’ve had zero issues with mine…
You must be unlucky dude ☺️
It's the first Harley that's going to be used 365 days a year, and it's clearly not up to it like the GS is or Africa twin,It's very strange that with Harleys large R&D budget they could not have done better, no excuse for fastners ect not holding up to winter use. I think they need to work more with european and Japanese manufacturers for some of there components to ensure durability, this is a first for them making a technology advanced bike, so i would cut them some slack.The engine a winner, the rest needs a lot of development on the durability front. Love my sportster 48, a real feel good bike.
My brand new Harley Davidson Pan America has broken down after only 432 miles and left me stranded on a camp site for 3 days so far. I’m currently sitting in a field where in the middle of nowhere, in a windy tent with no bike. Harley Assist are next to useless! What is the telephone number for Harley Davidson customer services please?
Most issues are the same ones well known in Pan America forums. Forgot to mention the radiator hose can be melted by the pipe. Harley should step up with fixes for everything and not wait until forced to act by recalls. Don’t let the bike get a bad reputation, it will never recover, and Harley needs this engine to work in several models.
nope, No HD for me!
Good review. I had to watch it twice, I was completely distracted by its abysmal appearance the first time. I image patriotic US buyers will buy enough of them to give HD time to sort the faults out.
Literally a shocking review and concerning on how unreliable his bike is.