The incontrovertible fact is Thomas was incapable of love. He only married Katherine as he hoped he gain power as the husband of a Queen. He then wanted to marry teenage Elizabeth, the future Queen of England. He cared nothing for these women. Only himself. He absolutely deserved and earned those two hacks of the axe.
I pity Catherine Parr - she was told point blank to her face that any pretty face will have her husband trying to get into their bed, whether the other wanted him there or not, as well as her husband was a fool and could get them killed. And she had no way out, what a way to live - especially after dealing with Henry!
Marrying the King was her safest place which is saying something of Catherine Parr qualities and Henry VIII appreciation of them. In short Henry VIII had mellow and he always liked having the women in his life educated to advanced and high standard. His daughter Lady Elizabeth was seen as so intelligent that she was not allowed to be around normal young noble women who were not as educated as she was.
By today's understanding, yes, groomed would be the right word. By you have to remember this was in Tudor, times, mid to late medieval times. Girls, and boys, would be considered adults at that age, and either would be married off or betrothed. Girls at that age would be considered women, because they would be able to physically bear children.
@@summerruby201doesn't matter that they thought she was of age then...he still groomed a child while married to another woman which in of itself was wrong THEN AND NOW
Just pointing out, it didn't happen this way in real life at all. Both Catherine and Thomas were delighted at the pregnancy, with Thomas writing to Catherine "I hear my little man doth shake his bell" (a reference to the baby kicking, which like all Tudor babies was assumed to be a boy) and Catherine responding "I gave our little knave your blessing who stirred apace after and before. It hath stirred these three days every morning and evening so that I trust when you come it will make you some pastime." Nor did the boy king Edward object to their marriage, in fact he encouraged it, and after their marriage he wrote to his stepmother Catherine "We thank you heartily, not only for the gentle acceptation of our suit moved unto you (accepting Edward's encouragements to marry Thomas Seymour) but also for the loving accomplishing of the same, wherein you have declared a desire to gratify us." What a damn shame that Catherine died after the birth of their daughter.
I heard their daughter went live with Cathrine closes friends Katherine Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk as Thomas brother didn't want her. Katherine Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk didn't really want her either, they said she died young, I take that with pitch of salt I feel she was neglected,abandoned ,mistreated I think she was mudred so sad 😔
@@jessicaduncan49 The baby, Mary Seymour, did go to live with Katherine Duchess of Suffolk, who made no secret of the fact that she didn't really want the responsibility and expense of looking after her - she said that the cost of her maids and nurses was too much to bear and that their chatter drove her mad - "who voices mine ears may hardly bear but my coffers bear much worse." However she appears to have been kind to baby Mary herself - it was her retinue that she objected to. There is no further record of Mary after her second birthday so it can be assumed that she succumbed to a childhood disease, like one in three children of the time.
@@theshillneckedlizard8364a friend of Katherine wrote a poem basically saying that Mary died young and what a tragedy she never lived to be like her queenly and strong mother
Catherine died shortly after giving birth; Thomas Seymour was executed for an alleged attempt on young Edward VI's life. Little Mary Seymour was taken in by her mother's friend, the Duchess of Suffolk. There exists a portrait of the little girl in a ruffled collar. She disappears from history, giving rise to speculation as to what happened to her. She may have died in childhood at the age of two or thereabouts; her grant from the Privy Council was not renewed (her father's lands had been forfeited to the Crown), and she never made a claim on her father's estate. It would be nice to think that she survived, and left dark, bloody, Tudor England behind for a brighter future elsewhere. What happened to her is unknown.
At the time, why did Thomas think marrying Elizabeth, in the highly unlikely event he was able to do that, would be the path toward his becoming King? Edward and Mary were before her in the line of succession, and no one ever thought she would become Queen, even though she ultimately did.
He didn’t want to become King, he wanted to control the king. Thomas thought that if he became Edward’s brother in law, Edward would appoint him as head of the regency council which basically would have given him the power to run the country.
I mean, some of this scene I think is a fact. Elizabeth was a young pretty girl who probably did look more attractive than Katherine. And like most grown men who try and groom and assault young girls, he wanted an impressionable girl who would do what he said.
mary would have never agreed to marry him and she was already an adult so he couldn't have manipulated her into it. he thought he could control elizabeth due to her age
This is kind of right, when thomas learned that cathrine was pregnant with his child. He was calm and reassuring and made everything so she could be careful and taken care off. When she was more than 3 months pregnant she caught him again kissing elizabeth in the garden, thomas is one of those guys who aollploflgies to his wife and says it was an accident blaming it on the girl. But yeah and when he found out he had a daughter he held his daughter in his arms and was happy when cathrjne was sick with child birth fever he stayed by her side and held her hand prayed fir her health. He mentioned it to her knowing that she will find hard to belive. A lot of people say he wasn't bothered by cathrines death, but he was he was upset to see his love of his life dead. And that's where he snapped and tried killing his own nephew
This is weird to me. I remember watching 'The Tudors' (the show with Jonathan Rhys Meyers) and the love between Catherine Parr and Thomas Seymour was strong in that version.
Yet in real life Thomas sexually molested young Elizabeth while Catherine was pregnant with his child. So much about love... Catherine loved him historically, Thomas only loved power and himself.
The Tudors was a soap opera view of history. It’s actually fun to watch from a storyteller’s view, taking the exact same facts and crafting a completely opposite narrative solely based on the choices made by actors
the tudors showed their relationship before henry's death, which is when it was at its peak. after henry's death thomas really did cheat on katherine and prey on elizabeth for power. and this show as a whole is more accurate than the tudors
You think it’s cool that one man had the power to take your head for calling him a bastard? I’m sure most people called Henry more than just a bastard behind his back. Of course they wouldn’t say it to him. No one wants their head chopped off. Giving one man that much power is dangerous. Glad those days are over. Henry was a horrible horrible man.
this show is a gross warping of actual history elizabeth was a virgin queen she didnt sleep with or was seduced by him. he tried and he failed and the actual history is that she allowed it and was a part of it. elizabeth was surrounded by doctors that saw her regularly and everytime she considered a match they checked her down there to make sure she could have children and was still a virgin.
She was Queen and could send ANYONE at anytime to be executed or jailed. So, for even a doctor to breathe that she wasn't a virgin would be dangerous. However, that is also not to say she wasn't either. But she had the power to do as she pleased whenever or never.
@@neldasalinas7231 thats true but its hard to believe they would admit that she caught small pox and was scarred badly from it and not for the virgin thing not to be discussed not to mention there are documents that documented the state of health of different monarchs so who knows
@@micheleford4282 Well, documents stating she was described as a beauty in her old age also exist, when in truth she was balding with ugly teeth. My point is, there is no way to know for sure. I mean, look at her father as an example. How many documents state obvious lies, his wives as examples, and we are supposed to take is as facts because they were written by doctors? A ruler could get them to write or swear anything. Again, doesn't mean she was or wasn't, just we don't know for sure.
Exactly. He only married her because she was the Dowager Queen of England and Ireland, a very rich person as the widow of the King and former Queen. He never loved her or their only daughter.
@@SnazzyArcade Well that's better than dieing in childbirth from child bed fever. Henry VIII was just talking about arresting her. She was alive and did not a deadly fever. For Tudor England that is a win.
@@AnnaBellaChannel Honestly Anne of Cleves got the best deal out of any of them. Property, allowance, social power, all in exchange for just not getting married to another guy. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.
@@SnazzyArcade Anne of Cleves became the richest women in England as well as having the official title of the KIng's Sister. But she was a foriegn noble by birth so chopping her head of was not a option due to it leading to war.
Creo que la peor parte para ella es ver lo básico y vulgar que es y no un gran noble como lo ídolatraba para ser un día su esposo antes de Enrique 8 y ver que mejor pudo ahorrarse algo tan bochornoso como esto y tener que tomar una desicion fuerte y para seguridad de Isabel. Esta parte desde ese instante que fue leve si podría haber pasado
Elisabeth wasn’t beautiful but Catherine Parr certainly was. I wish these shows would get the history correct. Also, Elisabeth wasn’t seduced… it never got that far.
there aren't any contemporary accounts that say whether she was beautiful or not. she was tall and slim and looked after her skin so i'm sure she was pleasant looking at least, but there's no actual proof that she was beautiful.
![Henry & Jane Scenes [S03] [1080p+Logoless]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eAYXvzNNfno/mqdefault.jpg)
![The same interview, queen after queen [The six wives of Henry VIII / Selfie'storique HS#4]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PYViDlRxDUo/mqdefault.jpg)
The incontrovertible fact is Thomas was incapable of love. He only married Katherine as he hoped he gain power as the husband of a Queen. He then wanted to marry teenage Elizabeth, the future Queen of England. He cared nothing for these women. Only himself.
He absolutely deserved and earned those two hacks of the axe.
Should have been three hacks 😈
To be fair, it was well known that Thomas wanted to marry Katherine prior to Henry but neither of them could defy the King.
@@candyclews4047Yes, she wanted to marry him and, perhaps, he wanted to marry her, but I suspect not because he loved her😢
@@chinavaughan6383 she was a rich widow.
@@rose080891 And a former queen of England, with a close relationship with a future queen, Elizabeth🙁
Catherine deserved better than either of them. Sadly, she fell for the wrong man in the end... poor Catherine and their daughter Mary Seymour. :(
I pity Catherine Parr - she was told point blank to her face that any pretty face will have her husband trying to get into their bed, whether the other wanted him there or not, as well as her husband was a fool and could get them killed. And she had no way out, what a way to live - especially after dealing with Henry!
especially after she thought for once, she had any say or control over her life
She thought she was getting better than Henry. She got worse.
Marrying the King was her safest place which is saying something of Catherine Parr qualities and Henry VIII appreciation of them. In short Henry VIII had mellow and he always liked having the women in his life educated to advanced and high standard. His daughter Lady Elizabeth was seen as so intelligent that she was not allowed to be around normal young noble women who were not as educated as she was.
Thomas did not seduce Elizabeth, you cannot seduce a child. She was groomed
Yes. Groomed is the correct term.
By today's understanding, yes, groomed would be the right word. By you have to remember this was in Tudor, times, mid to late medieval times. Girls, and boys, would be considered adults at that age, and either would be married off or betrothed. Girls at that age would be considered women, because they would be able to physically bear children.
@@summerruby201doesn't matter that they thought she was of age then...he still groomed a child while married to another woman which in of itself was wrong THEN AND NOW
@@summerruby201Unfortunately, this is true😢
@@summerruby201 it doesn't make it right !
Wow this conversation is so well done and important! Thanks for posting Lili!
She is much more intuitive and perceptíve than him.
She's a woman so... YEAH!
Just pointing out, it didn't happen this way in real life at all. Both Catherine and Thomas were delighted at the pregnancy, with Thomas writing to Catherine "I hear my little man doth shake his bell" (a reference to the baby kicking, which like all Tudor babies was assumed to be a boy) and Catherine responding "I gave our little knave your blessing who stirred apace after and before. It hath stirred these three days every morning and evening so that I trust when you come it will make you some pastime." Nor did the boy king Edward object to their marriage, in fact he encouraged it, and after their marriage he wrote to his stepmother Catherine "We thank you heartily, not only for the gentle acceptation of our suit moved unto you (accepting Edward's encouragements to marry Thomas Seymour) but also for the loving accomplishing of the same, wherein you have declared a desire to gratify us." What a damn shame that Catherine died after the birth of their daughter.
Even worse that no one knows what became of her child.
I heard their daughter went live with Cathrine closes friends Katherine Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk as Thomas brother didn't want her. Katherine Brandon, Duchess of Suffolk didn't really want her either, they said she died young, I take that with pitch of salt I feel she was neglected,abandoned ,mistreated I think she was mudred so sad 😔
@@jessicaduncan49 The baby, Mary Seymour, did go to live with Katherine Duchess of Suffolk, who made no secret of the fact that she didn't really want the responsibility and expense of looking after her - she said that the cost of her maids and nurses was too much to bear and that their chatter drove her mad - "who voices mine ears may hardly bear but my coffers bear much worse." However she appears to have been kind to baby Mary herself - it was her retinue that she objected to. There is no further record of Mary after her second birthday so it can be assumed that she succumbed to a childhood disease, like one in three children of the time.
@@uggy7693 died due to illness and lack of care.
@@theshillneckedlizard8364a friend of Katherine wrote a poem basically saying that Mary died young and what a tragedy she never lived to be like her queenly and strong mother
Catherine died shortly after giving birth; Thomas Seymour was executed for an alleged attempt on young Edward VI's life. Little Mary Seymour was taken in by her mother's friend, the Duchess of Suffolk. There exists a portrait of the little girl in a ruffled collar. She disappears from history, giving rise to speculation as to what happened to her. She may have died in childhood at the age of two or thereabouts; her grant from the Privy Council was not renewed (her father's lands had been forfeited to the Crown), and she never made a claim on her father's estate. It would be nice to think that she survived, and left dark, bloody, Tudor England behind for a brighter future elsewhere. What happened to her is unknown.
Stellar cast. Absolutely stellar.
This show was so good. The casting was perfect. I was so upset they cancelled it.
ALL except the lead 😭
Nah Catherine, Thomas loves the idea 💡 of being a king that's why he seduce Elizabeth 👑. He never loved not Elizabeth, nor you Catherine just power.
Thomas is a piece of shit and Catherine got a raw deal no matter who she was with.
groomed is the correct word. thomas groomed Elizabeth.
At the time, why did Thomas think marrying Elizabeth, in the highly unlikely event he was able to do that, would be the path toward his becoming King? Edward and Mary were before her in the line of succession, and no one ever thought she would become Queen, even though she ultimately did.
He didn’t want to become King, he wanted to control the king. Thomas thought that if he became Edward’s brother in law, Edward would appoint him as head of the regency council which basically would have given him the power to run the country.
I mean, some of this scene I think is a fact. Elizabeth was a young pretty girl who probably did look more attractive than Katherine. And like most grown men who try and groom and assault young girls, he wanted an impressionable girl who would do what he said.
mary would have never agreed to marry him and she was already an adult so he couldn't have manipulated her into it. he thought he could control elizabeth due to her age
It would have been kind of interesting if she mentioned Cathrine Howard in this scene
This is kind of right, when thomas learned that cathrine was pregnant with his child. He was calm and reassuring and made everything so she could be careful and taken care off. When she was more than 3 months pregnant she caught him again kissing elizabeth in the garden, thomas is one of those guys who aollploflgies to his wife and says it was an accident blaming it on the girl. But yeah and when he found out he had a daughter he held his daughter in his arms and was happy when cathrjne was sick with child birth fever he stayed by her side and held her hand prayed fir her health. He mentioned it to her knowing that she will find hard to belive. A lot of people say he wasn't bothered by cathrines death, but he was he was upset to see his love of his life dead. And that's where he snapped and tried killing his own nephew
he was saddened at her death but if she was the love of his life he wouldn't have acted the way he did
Drama effect it’s really good, the real Catherine Parr was overjoyed to be pregnant and especially at her age back then
She is joyful in the series too when she first tries to tell Thomas. Here she is unhappy because she already knows about him and Elizabeth.
This is weird to me. I remember watching 'The Tudors' (the show with Jonathan Rhys Meyers) and the love between Catherine Parr and Thomas Seymour was strong in that version.
Yet in real life Thomas sexually molested young Elizabeth while Catherine was pregnant with his child. So much about love...
Catherine loved him historically, Thomas only loved power and himself.
@@Lily1127channel
Glad he lost his head then!
The Tudors was a soap opera view of history. It’s actually fun to watch from a storyteller’s view, taking the exact same facts and crafting a completely opposite narrative solely based on the choices made by actors
the tudors showed their relationship before henry's death, which is when it was at its peak. after henry's death thomas really did cheat on katherine and prey on elizabeth for power. and this show as a whole is more accurate than the tudors
Wait,Wait,Wait you called Henry A bastard; you wouldn't dare say that in his face if he were alive.
If he said that in front of any of Henry VIII kids he would be beheaded-
@@royaltyfandomx He should be.
You think it’s cool that one man had the power to take your head for calling him a bastard? I’m sure most people called Henry more than just a bastard behind his back. Of course they wouldn’t say it to him. No one wants their head chopped off. Giving one man that much power is dangerous. Glad those days are over. Henry was a horrible horrible man.
this show is a gross warping of actual history elizabeth was a virgin queen she didnt sleep with or was seduced by him. he tried and he failed and the actual history is that she allowed it and was a part of it. elizabeth was surrounded by doctors that saw her regularly and everytime she considered a match they checked her down there to make sure she could have children and was still a virgin.
to be fair, historically elizabeth had her favorites, so I doubt that she was truly a virgin.
@@kanejtrash5019 she was surrounded by doctors that had her checked regularly dont you think they would have noticed lol
She was Queen and could send ANYONE at anytime to be executed or jailed. So, for even a doctor to breathe that she wasn't a virgin would be dangerous. However, that is also not to say she wasn't either. But she had the power to do as she pleased whenever or never.
@@neldasalinas7231 thats true but its hard to believe they would admit that she caught small pox and was scarred badly from it and not for the virgin thing not to be discussed not to mention there are documents that documented the state of health of different monarchs so who knows
@@micheleford4282 Well, documents stating she was described as a beauty in her old age also exist, when in truth she was balding with ugly teeth. My point is, there is no way to know for sure. I mean, look at her father as an example. How many documents state obvious lies, his wives as examples, and we are supposed to take is as facts because they were written by doctors? A ruler could get them to write or swear anything. Again, doesn't mean she was or wasn't, just we don't know for sure.
Can you upload the scene in which Catherine sends Elizabeth away? Liked her little talk about public opinion
Maul ? I've waited many years to destroy you.
@@savagedarksider5934 “I see the apprentice needs one last lesson” 😂
Yes I will upload that
Catherine parr shouldn’t have gone through this
Catherine, Thomas never loved you.
He wanted to be king.
@@savagedarksider5934 that much is true.
Exactly. He only married her because she was the Dowager Queen of England and Ireland, a very rich person as the widow of the King and former Queen. He never loved her or their only daughter.
Catherine,Catherine,Cathetine(...) Thomas never care for you.
He loved her, he just loved his ambitions much more...
@@ThePharaoho True, he did love his ambitions more but I don't think he love Catherine.
I always found it tragic the words she cried out to him while dying of child bed fever, saying how he mistreated her.
@@paddypaddy7276 Love can be dangerous, especially loving the wrong person it seems...
Catherine was only safe while Henry VIII lived.
He literally was considering having her arrested in the months prior to his death.
@@SnazzyArcade Well that's better than dieing in childbirth from child bed fever. Henry VIII was just talking about arresting her. She was alive and did not a deadly fever. For Tudor England that is a win.
@@AnnaBellaChannel Honestly Anne of Cleves got the best deal out of any of them. Property, allowance, social power, all in exchange for just not getting married to another guy. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me.
@@SnazzyArcade Anne of Cleves became the richest women in England as well as having the official title of the KIng's Sister. But she was a foriegn noble by birth so chopping her head of was not a option due to it leading to war.
THOMAS SEYMOUR WAS A CAD
Creo que la peor parte para ella es ver lo básico y vulgar que es y no un gran noble como lo ídolatraba para ser un día su esposo antes de Enrique 8 y ver que mejor pudo ahorrarse algo tan bochornoso como esto y tener que tomar una desicion fuerte y para seguridad de Isabel. Esta parte desde ese instante que fue leve si podría haber pasado
Great actors and acting but very inaccurate in some areas according to historical evidence available.
Chockh 😂
Elisabeth wasn’t beautiful but Catherine Parr certainly was. I wish these shows would get the history correct. Also, Elisabeth wasn’t seduced… it never got that far.
Elizabeth was groomed.
there aren't any contemporary accounts that say whether she was beautiful or not. she was tall and slim and looked after her skin so i'm sure she was pleasant looking at least, but there's no actual proof that she was beautiful.
Interesting