Hi Rolingmetal, I have the exact same problem on my Lorch, Schmidt lathe. I've measured the tailstock quill's position by spinning an indicator around it, held in the lathe chuck. The tailstock quill is too low, indicating wear under the tailstock, or maybe along the bed. The collets in the headstock are still remarkably true, average runout 0.015mm. (One and a half hundreds of a millimetre). The fit and finish of many of the parts of my lathe tells me that the tailstock was probably as good as the collets when new. The quill still fits the tailstock with absolutely no wobble, even when fully extended, and is ground outside to an incredible finish. The slide rest has an extended pointer, to make the angular scale more accurate. I will eventually fix the tailstock quill problem permanently, but so far, I shim it up. It's my best, and my favourite lathe. Thanks for the video.
Keep in mind it looks like you may be .001 off from on center to the other (next to each other). However, over a distance of 10 inches you are only off .0001 and that is next to nothing. I was told another way of comparing is to part off some bar stock without the use of a tailstock. Then, put one end in the chuck with the fresh cut sticking out and then put the other in the tailstock with the cut end sticking out and then run them together. Run you fingers over the seam and you will get a good feel of the error.
if you could have chucked the reamer on the left and centered it good and tightened it well, then brought the tailstock to it all the way forward... that could have forced a more centered cut into the tailstock
Pretty common that the tailstock is worn on bottom on old machines...I have build up and ground before. The ridge on the end...the hole wasn't perfect in center when the taper was machined. For BEST morse taper connection... the taper need to be precision ground!
Wear in the bed or underneath the tail stock casting could explain why the centre still a bit low. It could also come form a worn quill. For me it's pretty hard to pinpoint. I might put some shim tock underneath the front of the tail stock.
Always more wear under tail stock since it's a short piece ..you can check the difference by clamping test indicator in Lathe chuck and spin around the tail stock quill, outside first, [the front of outside is never worn], then check inside and see how much the runout is compare to the outside.
when you pressed the center into the test piece it moved upward a bit - so the problem is the left side of the tailstock has play up and down - either the bed contact area or the quill
Hi. Just watched your video and saw 2 tailstocks with almost the same deviation - it makes me wonder if it is not your headstock that is misaligned. Have you checked it? Also, with the reamer's end only supported in a dead center, any misalignment between headstock and tailstock will send the reamer sideways, causing the cutting problem you found. Although it is not the right way to do it, you would have obtained better results with the reamer tightly held and trued in the chuck / collet / headstock taper (after ensuring the headstock is properly aligned with the ways). The right way would be to hold the part in the chuck, true it and re-cut the taper with a boring bar. Only then the reamer should be used, for an accurate finishing. Anyway, you got it better than it was, so it is not all bad ;-)
It is possible that the headstock is a bit misaligned. But it can't be adjusted because it sits on the v-way. When I assembled the lathe I carefully stoned the bed and the underside of the headstock and hoped for the best. Any misalignment could also come from the old bearings. I could have held the reamer in the headstock mt3 taper using an adapter. But, because of possible misaligment headstock I thought I was a better idea to use a freshly cut centre point to line things up. If I had a big enough 4 jaw I would have used that and re-cut the taper using a boring bar. I have since found out that the tailstock is still a bit low. It seems like the quill is pointing down a bit. But it hard to pinpoint the exact issue because it could also be cause by wear in the bed. Also, I have not broken anymore center drills so I'm reasonably happy with the result.
Even if you choose not to correct any headstock misalignment by scraping or shims, it would be very useful to measure what that misalignment IS. Then you can remove that difference from other measurements you make, such as tailstock alignment. I am curious if you checked how the tailstock ram outside surface lined up with your spindle axis / bed ways. If the taper inside the ram was really cut at an angle from the ram axis, I think a reamer would try to follow that existing taper, even when the ram was set properly in line with the spindle? I was taught that fixing 'skewed' bores almost requires a single point boring tool. I can't even remember the last time i had to do that, so I'm not sure how important that is... Thank you for sharing your work! All kinds of good ideas to improve things with what you have.
I'm no engineer but surely, if the reamer isn't positively held in the chuck/headstock taper on the lathe that has the issue, that reamer will just follow the path of the wonky morse taper that is already there? I Really can't see hot holding it on a point in the chuck is going tp straighten anything. Haven't got to the end of the video so we'll see. It worked but I still get how it did.
Shars has MT3 to MT2 sleeves for sale and are very inexpensive. Having the reamer in your headstock spindle is your best bet to true up the quill in my opinion as it will recut the quill in line with the spindle bore. Obviously check the runout when using a sleeve before proceeding, use a 4 jaw to get the reamer spot on if need be.Shame you couldnt get a MT2 reamer with a MT3 shank to avoid sleeves altogether. Nice video :)
The spindle of the lathe has about 4/100mm run out. And I don't know if its 100% parallel with the bed. A sleeve will probably add some more run out, but I was willing to risk it. And I thought I had a sleeve, but I didn't :) I could remove the taper from the reamer and use a collet. But as long a my centre drill stays in one peace I'll leave it like this.
Your quill is not running round in lathe at the end because the jaws are not perfectly true...a little is pretty normal and to overcome this is to hold quill very short ..not more then a half a inch. As for not marking the quill from jaws...cut a strip of aluminum, about 3/8 or 1/2" wide around 1/8" thick from sheet and bend round covering the 3 jaws, now the steady rest don't need to get strained forcing the shaft over. Make sure the quill runs round near jaw...might have to shim jaw or move chuck if you can. Also make sure the quill is aligned to the tailstock...only then you can proceed the reaming operation...but better to get it ground in a grinding shop, grinding takes the very least amount off and the finish is best for good connection.
Most problems i have found is poor set up on lathe. The bed must be straight to the spindle. Not fun work . If you want precision across full travel it must be done as close as possible in all axis.
Did the bearing have a groove in it that was slightly peened shut toward the end? Removing a little bit of material might have opened that up, if I were paying more attention I would be more confident in saying so.
Are they all reamers the same? I need to do the same fix. My tail stock quill has some scratches inside. It's my first lathe and i bought it with no tail stock dead center or any chuck. I hope I don't run into many problems. Thanks for your video.
You obviously need to buy the correct size reamer for your tailstock. And you choose between hand reamers and machine reamers. Mine was a machine reamer. Success and good luck.
good work. I had to go check mine with a ruler; it stands up nice and straight against a little square. :D this lather probably would have been not too shabby when it was new. like my lorch, its certainly a lot better than i could buy from china. youll get it all back together right one day
My Chinese lathe isn't the best out there, but it is surely more precise than this old lathe. That being said, I do prefer using the old lathe over the Chinese one.
In a perfect world all 3 jaw chuck would run perfectly true. Unfortunately this world is far from perfect and so is my old chuck. I thought this would be my best option.
Não entendo a sua língua mas pelas as imagens vc é um bom profissional sou apaixonado por tornearia ainda não tenho um torno mas To pensando em fazer um pra iniciar.
Witam z Polski według mnie konik ma wytartą podstawę widocznie ktoś luzując blokadę konika przesuwał konik dość często w trzymając przodzie ręką i szorując po łożu i to spowodowało brak cęntryczności góra dół oczywiście przejechanie rozwiertakiem nie pomoże a i nie zaszkodzi szkoda że konik nie posiada regulacji pozdrawiam
The motor acts as a speaker for the synthetic sinus wave coming from the old VFD. The Electronics in newer VFD's is quicker making the motor run quieter. It sounds worse on camera probably because of the automatic audio recoding gain. Check this video about my old vs new vfd. th-cam.com/video/gL1G8DLfzJI/w-d-xo.html
I have a chinese wood lathe. I spent the first 12 hours getting it straightened out and lined up. When you put pressure on the tailstock, the headstock tilts backwards. 😲
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Never seen a lathe powered by a tornado siren before!
It is not as quiet as I would have liked. :)
Hi Rolingmetal, I have the exact same problem on my Lorch, Schmidt lathe. I've measured the tailstock quill's position by spinning an indicator around it, held in the lathe chuck. The tailstock quill is too low, indicating wear under the tailstock, or maybe along the bed. The collets in the headstock are still remarkably true, average runout 0.015mm. (One and a half hundreds of a millimetre). The fit and finish of many of the parts of my lathe tells me that the tailstock was probably as good as the collets when new. The quill still fits the tailstock with absolutely no wobble, even when fully extended, and is ground outside to an incredible finish. The slide rest has an extended pointer, to make the angular scale more accurate. I will eventually fix the tailstock quill problem permanently, but so far, I shim it up. It's my best, and my favourite lathe. Thanks for the video.
I almost bought a Lorch once. They are nice lathes.
Hope you'll get you tail stock sorted.
on the lookout for lorch tailstock centres.... hahah anyone whos converted theirs to MT might help me out..
9:48 the reamer was still moving slightly up, but I'd say it was 1/4 the former travel up
I agree, it's still not perfect.
Keep in mind it looks like you may be .001 off from on center to the other (next to each other). However, over a distance of 10 inches you are only off .0001 and that is next to nothing. I was told another way of comparing is to part off some bar stock without the use of a tailstock. Then, put one end in the chuck with the fresh cut sticking out and then put the other in the tailstock with the cut end sticking out and then run them together. Run you fingers over the seam and you will get a good feel of the error.
I think that way of testing would not eliminate any run-out or misalignment in the chuck.
Hell with the tail stock,,,,the scritching sound running would be enough for me..
Yep the bottom of the tailstock needs welded to bring it back to true center
if you could have chucked the reamer on the left and centered it good and tightened it well, then brought the tailstock to it all the way forward... that could have forced a more centered cut into the tailstock
I see what you mean, but I didn't have the equipment to do that.
No good enough chuck and no adapter sleeve to fit the reamer inside the spindle.
Pretty common that the tailstock is worn on bottom on old machines...I have build up and ground before. The ridge on the end...the hole wasn't perfect in center when the taper was machined. For BEST morse taper connection... the taper need to be precision ground!
Wear in the bed or underneath the tail stock casting could explain why the centre still a bit low.
It could also come form a worn quill. For me it's pretty hard to pinpoint.
I might put some shim tock underneath the front of the tail stock.
Always more wear under tail stock since it's a short piece ..you can check the difference by clamping test indicator in Lathe chuck and spin around the tail stock quill, outside first, [the front of outside is never worn], then check inside and see how much the runout is compare to the outside.
when you pressed the center into the test piece it moved upward a bit - so the problem is the left side of the tailstock has play up and down - either the bed contact area or the quill
You're right, there is some play in the tailstock quill.
Hi. Just watched your video and saw 2 tailstocks with almost the same deviation - it makes me wonder if it is not your headstock that is misaligned. Have you checked it?
Also, with the reamer's end only supported in a dead center, any misalignment between headstock and tailstock will send the reamer sideways, causing the cutting problem you found.
Although it is not the right way to do it, you would have obtained better results with the reamer tightly held and trued in the chuck / collet / headstock taper (after ensuring the headstock is properly aligned with the ways). The right way would be to hold the part in the chuck, true it and re-cut the taper with a boring bar. Only then the reamer should be used, for an accurate finishing. Anyway, you got it better than it was, so it is not all bad ;-)
It is possible that the headstock is a bit misaligned. But it can't be adjusted because it sits on the v-way.
When I assembled the lathe I carefully stoned the bed and the underside of the headstock and hoped for the best.
Any misalignment could also come from the old bearings.
I could have held the reamer in the headstock mt3 taper using an adapter.
But, because of possible misaligment headstock I thought I was a better idea to use a freshly cut centre point to line things up.
If I had a big enough 4 jaw I would have used that and re-cut the taper using a boring bar.
I have since found out that the tailstock is still a bit low. It seems like the quill is pointing down a bit.
But it hard to pinpoint the exact issue because it could also be cause by wear in the bed.
Also, I have not broken anymore center drills so I'm reasonably happy with the result.
Even if you choose not to correct any headstock misalignment by scraping or shims, it would be very useful to measure what that misalignment IS. Then you can remove that difference from other measurements you make, such as tailstock alignment.
I am curious if you checked how the tailstock ram outside surface lined up with your spindle axis / bed ways. If the taper inside the ram was really cut at an angle from the ram axis, I think a reamer would try to follow that existing taper, even when the ram was set properly in line with the spindle?
I was taught that fixing 'skewed' bores almost requires a single point boring tool. I can't even remember the last time i had to do that, so I'm not sure how important that is...
Thank you for sharing your work! All kinds of good ideas to improve things with what you have.
Nice improvement.
I'm no engineer but surely, if the reamer isn't positively held in the chuck/headstock taper on the lathe that has the issue, that reamer will just follow the path of the wonky morse taper that is already there? I Really can't see hot holding it on a point in the chuck is going tp straighten anything. Haven't got to the end of the video so we'll see. It worked but I still get how it did.
You're right and it still isn't perfect.
But it worked and for now I'm happy with the result.
I once owned an old lathe which had a brown and sharp taper in the quill. Very inconvenient.
I can imagine that. But in good order it should still be better the a messed up mt2 taper.
All my tooling was morse :(
Shars has MT3 to MT2 sleeves for sale and are very inexpensive. Having the reamer in your headstock spindle is your best bet to true up the quill in my opinion as it will recut the quill in line with the spindle bore. Obviously check the runout when using a sleeve before proceeding, use a 4 jaw to get the reamer spot on if need be.Shame you couldnt get a MT2 reamer with a MT3 shank to avoid sleeves altogether. Nice video :)
The spindle of the lathe has about 4/100mm run out. And I don't know if its 100% parallel with the bed.
A sleeve will probably add some more run out, but I was willing to risk it. And I thought I had a sleeve, but I didn't :)
I could remove the taper from the reamer and use a collet. But as long a my centre drill stays in one peace I'll leave it like this.
I think you did a fine job with the cards you were dealt as the lathe had "issues" :) Thumbs up friend! 👍🏼
Jesus that VFD carrier frequency is harsh
Your quill is not running round in lathe at the end because the jaws are not perfectly true...a little is pretty normal and to overcome this is to hold quill very short
..not more then a half a inch. As for not marking the quill from jaws...cut a strip of aluminum, about 3/8 or 1/2" wide around 1/8" thick from sheet and bend round covering the 3 jaws, now the steady rest don't need to get strained forcing the shaft over. Make sure the quill runs round near jaw...might have to shim jaw or move chuck if you can. Also make sure the quill is aligned to the tailstock...only then you can proceed the reaming operation...but better to get it ground in a grinding shop, grinding takes the very least amount off and the finish is best for good connection.
Thanks for the tips. much appreciated :)
Is the tailstock ways worn
Most problems i have found is poor set up on lathe. The bed must be straight to the spindle. Not fun work . If you want precision across full travel it must be done as close as possible in all axis.
Did the bearing have a groove in it that was slightly peened shut toward the end? Removing a little bit of material might have opened that up, if I were paying more attention I would be more confident in saying so.
I'm sorry but I don't understand the comment.
Are they all reamers the same? I need to do the same fix. My tail stock quill has some scratches inside. It's my first lathe and i bought it with no tail stock dead center or any chuck. I hope I don't run into many problems. Thanks for your video.
You obviously need to buy the correct size reamer for your tailstock.
And you choose between hand reamers and machine reamers. Mine was a machine reamer.
Success and good luck.
i wonder if the other person hit the tailshaft on something to bend it like that .... good video man !!
I don't think it's bend. I think the taper had been cut into the quill at a slight angle.
good work. I had to go check mine with a ruler; it stands up nice and straight against a little square. :D this lather probably would have been not too shabby when it was new. like my lorch, its certainly a lot better than i could buy from china. youll get it all back together right one day
My Chinese lathe isn't the best out there, but it is surely more precise than this old lathe.
That being said, I do prefer using the old lathe over the Chinese one.
Perhaps you can get a horse. It is done normally. You may need to support the height with the foils.
holy crap dude id say you fixed the hell outta it lmao great job. i love the metal ruler trick to i never seen that bravo !!!
I haven't broken any more centre drill so it look very promising.
Why don't you make a new piece for your tail stock?
Too much precision for me :) And so far the tailstocks have worked fine.
Why don’t you simply put the reamer into the chuck without a center and the quill into the tail stock? That would align everything perfectly.
In a perfect world all 3 jaw chuck would run perfectly true. Unfortunately this world is far from perfect and so is my old chuck. I thought this would be my best option.
No problem. Bore a hole in a piece of aluminum and glue the reamer in.
Não entendo a sua língua mas pelas as imagens vc é um bom profissional sou apaixonado por tornearia ainda não tenho um torno mas To pensando em fazer um pra iniciar.
What is hat awful sound when you turn the lathe on???
That's the vintage eighties Allen Bradley VFD making the 6 pole motor sing.
Painful! 😫
An acquired taste, but it sounds worse on camera :)
The camera need ear plugs! 😜
Witam z Polski według mnie konik ma wytartą podstawę widocznie ktoś luzując blokadę konika przesuwał konik dość często w trzymając przodzie ręką i szorując po łożu i to spowodowało brak cęntryczności góra dół oczywiście przejechanie rozwiertakiem nie pomoże a i nie zaszkodzi szkoda że konik nie posiada regulacji pozdrawiam
why does your lathe scream? How do you put up with it?
The motor acts as a speaker for the synthetic sinus wave coming from the old VFD.
The Electronics in newer VFD's is quicker making the motor run quieter.
It sounds worse on camera probably because of the automatic audio recoding gain.
Check this video about my old vs new vfd. th-cam.com/video/gL1G8DLfzJI/w-d-xo.html
That tail point is still low?
I think it might be. But so far al centre drills have survived.
is that noise normal ?
Unfortunately yes. It's my old VFD the makes the motor whine.
consider this way of making the tailstock alignment th-cam.com/video/z5c_7eMRiYs/w-d-xo.html
Hey Roling, my new shop is very slowly coming together, gave you a shoutout in my most recent quick clip!
I've watched your video. You bought a very nice toy. #Jealous
I have a chinese wood lathe. I spent the first 12 hours getting it straightened out and lined up. When you put pressure on the tailstock, the headstock tilts backwards. 😲
That's Chinese quality control for you :)
Tm🖒💚💚💚💚💚🌳⚘
Ma